High Definition Props and Textures - Discussion thread

[buddybud]

Ok this is really cool.
I like the looks of this....

so are you doing a double scale render then reducing size in the reader??

[jeronij]

An speechless icon is going to be needed lately....  Cogeo, how did you do that   ¡¡¡ The new technique is totally incredible... you can almost read the ticket's price      

[RippleJet]

I think we will all soon be needing new computers to play on...

Is the missing shadow a result of your technique, or just an oversight?

[nerdly_dood]

I think I'd just like to bring this up - Would it be more taxing on system resources to use True3D props or these high-def standard props? My automata mods replace the standard police car props with the same True3D model as the police car automata that replaces the Maxis one, and Gizmo has a few prop packs on his website that use True3D models. (They're just True3D props of Maxis automata and the automata available at SimCityCentral.net)

What with these props being a 3D model, they would be more taxing on graphics; however, high-def props with standard modeling would be much less taxing on graphics at the expense of requiring more texture files for all the rotations and zoom levels. (The True3D props have only one texture that is used for all rotations etc)

[Orange_o_]

Wow



With an another technics,  I was able to improve the render of props

sorry it's in french

it's an corn field. In the square, you can see the result of the export classic









in the left gmax classic and in the right the reFiSHing result,


Orange

[bob56]

this is just amazing!!!

WHat are the implications of this?

[cogeo]

Now that I have read the whole thread from the start, I feel that I need to give some explanations:
- The prop was made using exactly the same technique proposed by wouanagaine (double the size in BAT, then divide the vertices coordinates by 2 in the reader - no need to change anything in the UVW map or the materials). The procedure is really tedious, even for box-shaped LODs.
- This might look like taking another's idea, and presenting it as mine, but this was not the case here: a) My message was posted just 3 1/2 hours after this thread was started, so there wouldn't be enough time to make the tests, lots, take shots etc, and b) I had already contacted wou yesterday, talking about a possible tool (I guess he could verify this).
- I would also like to make it clear, that I don't mean the opposite either, actually I didn't tell wou what exactly the tool would be for. There is no doubt to me that we both considered the same solution (for the low-res BAT props), something very expected, as the high-res textures thread was a "hot-topic" in the last few days.

@RippleJet: the missing shadow was indeed an oversight (IsGroundModel = false).

I think there would be no problem using this technique for making high-definition small and very small props, it should just not be used for "normal" bats (houses, shops) and especially large ones (skyscrapers, factories, warehouses). Not only a higher resolution for these would be almost pointless (most other buildings, inc Maxis' would be low-res, and due to their size few players would notice the details), it would also overload the graphics engine, as many members here have warned.

[mightygoose]

ok, it's good to know your methods, was very curious, but surely it is entirely down to the hardware as to how big a collection of hi def props a persons game could handle... assuming they were using hardware rendering of course....

[buddybud]

hmmm....could you simply render both at normal size and then double size and simply switch out the textures......that would be easy!! I'll give it a shot!

[dedgren]

Oh, this is probably the right place to post

It doesn't much matter where something like this is posted- it's heartstopping.

No need to worry about who gets credit for what- SC4D has become the Skunk Works [linkie] for SC4.  There's a synergy going on these days that's just incredible- it's amazing to be a part of it.

I can't wait to see the first scale road signs produced with this technique.


David

[z]

EDIT_ and texture based road top bustops.... *drools*

I think you were reading my mind. 

BTW, Jeroni, thanks for the team badges! 

[Pat]

OMG Jeroni that is amazing!!!!!

[Pat]

umm wow!!!!

[wouanagaine]

ok, it's good to know your methods, was very curious, but surely it is entirely down to the hardware as to how big a collection of hi def props a persons game could handle... assuming they were using hardware rendering of course....

If the it is only applied to zoom5 props, this won't be too much for the graphic engine ( well don't misread me, you'll need a pretty good PC ), because at zoom5 or 6 you really don't see much of your city

I think I'd just like to bring this up - Would it be more taxing on system resources to use True3D props or these high-def standard props? My automata mods replace the standard police car props with the same True3D model as the police car automata that replaces the Maxis one, and Gizmo has a few prop packs on his website that use True3D models. (They're just True3D props of Maxis automata and the automata available at SimCityCentral.net)

What with these props being a 3D model, they would be more taxing on graphics; however, high-def props with standard modeling would be much less taxing on graphics at the expense of requiring more texture files for all the rotations and zoom levels. (The True3D props have only one texture that is used for all rotations etc)

It will really depends on the number of triangles in True3D ( and it hierachy if they have one ) vs the number of FSH. And I'm guessing the engine is very optimized for normal rendering vs True3D.
And as far as I can tell, I really don't see any technical restriction for a True3D to have only one FSH ( of course there are some performance reasons to limit to one )

Now that I have read the whole thread from the start, I feel that I need to give some explanations:
- The prop was made using exactly the same technique proposed by wouanagaine (double the size in BAT, then divide the vertices coordinates by 2 in the reader - no need to change anything in the UVW map or the materials). The procedure is really tedious, even for box-shaped LODs.
- This might look like taking another's idea, and presenting it as mine, but this was not the case here: a) My message was posted just 3 1/2 hours after this thread was started, so there wouldn't be enough time to make the tests, lots, take shots etc, and b) I had already contacted wou yesterday, talking about a possible tool (I guess he could verify this).
- I would also like to make it clear, that I don't mean the opposite either, actually I didn't tell wou what exactly the tool would be for. There is no doubt to me that we both considered the same solution (for the low-res BAT props), something very expected, as the high-res textures thread was a "hot-topic" in the last few days.

Hey great minds etc...

[Jonathan]

hmmm....could you simply render both at normal size and then double size and simply switch out the textures......that would be easy!! I'll give it a shot!

That is all I did, Rendered the prop normally, then double size and applied the double size textures to the normal sized model, and surprisingly I didn't have to change any coordinates, UV or XZY. Just changed the IID in the Mats tab.And it took under 5 minutes to take the model and export in a HD.

and the result was:


Jonathan

[Swamper77]

That is all I did, Rendered the prop normally, then double size and applied the double size textures to the normal sized model, and surprisingly I didn't have to change any coordinates, UV or XZY. Just changed the IID in the Mats tab.

This makes sense as the UV coordinates are relative to the image. Thus a double sized image and a normal size image will have the same UV map on the same model. I use 512x512 images when making my automata in GMAX and then resize the images to 256x256 for game use.

-Jan

[wouanagaine]

Excuse my ignorance, but does the BAT4Max or Gmax script can be edited to force a double FSH size rendering at zoom5 ? I think this would be the easiest way for everyone and it will cover all cases ( especially if rendering a prop double sized will span more FSHs than the normal one )
If it is possible then this should be made optionnal, as Cogeo said, no need to make that for a skyscrapper

[A200]

What the hell?

[cogeo]

hmmm....could you simply render both at normal size and then double size and simply switch out the textures......that would be easy!! I'll give it a shot!

Unfortunately this is not possible. The different-sized models would result in different UVW maps too; not to mention that the larger model may be split into those "groups", ie using more FSH textures.

That is all I did, Rendered the prop normally, then double size and applied the double size textures to the normal sized model, and surprisingly I didn't have to change any coordinates, UV or XZY. Just changed the IID in the Mats tab.And it took under 5 minutes to take the model and export in a HD.

Warrior, this is not what buddybud was talking about.

[Diggis]

Warrior, this is not what buddybud was talking about.

I reread both posts and I think that IS what buddybud was talking about.  As long as the larger prop doesn't cover more than 1 FSH file per view then when it's put into the smaller model it should work.