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NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Started by jahu, June 03, 2007, 10:15:49 AM

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jplumbley

Quote from: NikNik on October 01, 2007, 07:05:23 AM
:'( NAM2007  :'(
I first had problem downloading the correct NAM as the one under LEX is indeed (as stated on page 3) the December 2006 one. So after much browsing and checking I finally have the correct one and started to unzip it.
First removed all NAM files with Cleanitol tool.
Then installed NAM June 2007
Finally installed NAM Essentials Bridges.

Next I used the datpacker tool to pack all the plugins to a neat easy to use format. And I startup the game.
It operates good. So what's the problem?
The problem is that I do see the Avenue roundabout icon, but I cannot plop it. the cursor arrow is constantly red.
Secondly I cannot find the curvy road thingy.

I see a lot of answers to GLR questions in this thread but at least two people had the same problem as I have with the Avenue roundabouts. What can be done about it?

BTW the NAM is installed in the first directry of the plugins folder.

Please help.

Nik-Nik

I would suggest that you not DAT Pack the NAM into everything else.  What DAT Packer does is remove any "duplicate" files, and if for some reason you have a 2nd version of one of the RUL files in an older Transit Mod or what ever it will keep the first one it finds and remove any succeeding ones.  DAT Packer is good for LOTs, Props, BATs, etc, but for a mod the size of NAM it is suggested that you not DAT Pack them.  Esspecially since there are continuous updates to the files.

I dont know if this will totally fix your issue but I would be it goes a long way to solving the issue.  What it seems to be is that your RUL 0x10000000 (Interchange Solutions RUL) has been overwritten by an older file.  This file deals with the RULs that define the Puzzle Pieces and their order in the Rotation Rings (TAB-Icons).  The Road Curves will be found in your Road Rotation Ring and if it is not there, this sounds to be your issue.  If this is true, I would stress the above and not DAT Pack your NAM Files.
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Street Addon Mod - SAM

rickmastfan67

Quote from: jplumbley on October 01, 2007, 07:10:55 AM
Also with the RHW there are regular interchanges being created as well.  The RHW will have Street, Road, Avenue, and OWR Intersections.  These may be sometime in the making as there are few texturers on this project.  Rickmastfan is doing an awesome job with his work on the textures and lets hope he has time to continue his work into the intersections sooner than later.  Once Alex and I have textures, the RULs will come faster.  :thumbsup:

I'm working on the textures as fast as possible. lol.  Plus I have other texture projects that I work on (NASCAR Paint schemes). ;)
-- James Mast, aka: rickmastfan67
Painter/Public Relations at: Masgrafx Racing.

Check out the 9/11/01 Car Set Checklist.

Take a look @ the JPG Compression tutorial.  A must read to help cut away unnecessary file size from 500k+ images to help dial-up users out.

Crissa

Quote from: jplumbley on October 01, 2007, 07:10:55 AM
Very good Crissa.  We will have to look into this.  To me that looks like a problem with the RULs for Diagonal Streets referencing a  non-existant Texture.  That may take some time to figure out because there are hundreds of lines of RULs for the Diagonal Streets and they were done before my time.
It's the eased curve segment that's being wonky; as you can see on the left I can put in diagonals and it replaces the missing eased curve.

I was just looking to make some sweeping streets for neighborhoods when I came across this.

-Crissa

snowski55

I have only ID in a region next door, and some commercial in the region with my residential. All residential is poor (one $). I have only 2000 population, and have previous cities built the same way with no troubles. I have no other plugins installed except the June 2007 NAM. I have tried it on regular, perfect pathfinding, Radical Custom Special, and 5x Capacity 10x Speeds 10x Commute and no NAM. Without the NAM I see no problems, but with other NAM settings, I have certain locations that are always long commute resulting in no job zot and abondonment, while just next door is the same commute, but commute is correctly short. This is a fresh install of SimCity4RH and NAM. Does anyone know what is going on? I have two screenshots attached showing this.

ShortCommute
LongCommute

Thanks for the help,
Ben

Tropod

Personally, I don't think I have ever said NAM fixes abandonment, commute times, or sims not being able to find jobs (i.e No Job zots). And yet, I have occasionally seen that people are still insistent that the NAM (supposedly) fixes these things. It doesn't, & never will 'fix' them, it only helps address them to some degree, nothing more (Read documentation contained in the Traffic Plugin html file).

Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately?) your problem goes back to something that has nothing to do with NAM, though NAM certainly does have an influence (overall, for the better).
Problems like this exist in the stock standard game, without modifications. They just may not be as apparent (like many issues with the game, they're not apparent until someone tries adjusting something). I would not necessarily call this a bug though, though I guess some may see it that way. Too many players take a narrow perspective when seeing something like this, automatically thinking it must be a bug.
The way I see it, generally speaking commuters have preferences when it comes to commuting, whether it be by walk, car, bus, train etc. Now I would hardly think for a minute that Maxis programmed 'attitudes' into Sims, but that is how I would put it; a Short commute for one sim, may be considered not short by another sim (even if it is the same/similar).
However, having said this; If I recall, Residents/Commerce TrafficNoise/Customer numbers is derived based on data from specific localised areas (4 tile radius I think?) within Residents/Commerce, & I would not be surprised if the same applies to Commute time for some parts. And adding to this....
I have personally examined the Developer Exemplars (ones that deal with Commute Time for each individual RCI Property 0x87CD6346 & 0x87CD6347 can't remember which one, may be both) & adjust things so they're more balanced, but with mixed results (from the limited moding I did of it). If one has a look at these 2 properties though, you will see that a few of the Developer Exemplars they're in have a narrow range, so I am not the least bit surprised the way it behaves in-game. Unless someone is will to do extensive & thorough testing with modding this particular aspect, I dare say this will continue to happen.

I hope this helps answer your (& others) question.

snowski55

Quote from: Tropod on October 03, 2007, 11:45:28 PM
Personally, I don't think I have ever said NAM fixes abandonment, commute times, or sims not being able to find jobs (i.e No Job zots). And yet, I have occasionally seen that people are still insistent that the NAM (supposedly) fixes these things. It doesn't, & never will 'fix' them, it only helps address them to some degree, nothing more (Read documentation contained in the Traffic Plugin html file).

Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately?) your problem goes back to something that has nothing to do with NAM, though NAM certainly does have an influence (overall, for the better).
Problems like this exist in the stock standard game, without modifications. They just may not be as apparent (like many issues with the game, they're not apparent until someone tries adjusting something). I would not necessarily call this a bug though, though I guess some may see it that way. Too many players take a narrow perspective when seeing something like this, automatically thinking it must be a bug.
The way I see it, generally speaking commuters have preferences when it comes to commuting, whether it be by walk, car, bus, train etc. Now I would hardly think for a minute that Maxis programmed 'attitudes' into Sims, but that is how I would put it; a Short commute for one sim, may be considered not short by another sim (even if it is the same/similar).
However, having said this; If I recall, Residents/Commerce TrafficNoise/Customer numbers is derived based on data from specific localised areas (4 tile radius I think?) within Residents/Commerce, & I would not be surprised if the same applies to Commute time for some parts. And adding to this....
I have personally examined the Developer Exemplars (ones that deal with Commute Time for each individual RCI Property 0x87CD6346 & 0x87CD6347 can't remember which one, may be both) & adjust things so they're more balanced, but with mixed results (from the limited moding I did of it). If one has a look at these 2 properties though, you will see that a few of the Developer Exemplars they're in have a narrow range, so I am not the least bit surprised the way it behaves in-game. Unless someone is will to do extensive & thorough testing with modding this particular aspect, I dare say this will continue to happen.

I hope this helps answer your (& others) question.


Well, the example I gave was only one instance. Actually, the exact same thing happens all over any new developments I add. So, I don't believe it is what you describe. It is a relatively widespread problem that is not isolated to that one location.

Here is the new zoning:
New Zoning
And here is the result:
Abandoned

Any new zoning results in the same. Commute time is long, and I get abandonment. There are plenty of jobs in the region just next door, and the neighbors of these new developments commute there, and have commute time of short.

Anyone know what is going on?
Thanks,
Ben

jeronij

I'd suggest to give your sims the work they can take. If you dont have any education in your city yet ( I cant see any in the picture, but I can be of course wrong), your sims will only be able to work in agricultural and dirty industrial zones. A few number of them can take also some CS$ jobs, but dont expect your uneducated sims to take specialized jobs.

This is my suggestion. I hope this helps  ;D
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snowski55

I added a lot of dirty industrial right next to their homes. They still have long commute and abandon.

ebina

This was reported by a certain Japanese player. Avenue over Rail overpass was missing the SC4PATHs for its slope part, this issue happens only in the Left Hand Version. It has already been fixed and file is on the Edit BBS of Sim City Force.


I have used these IIDs for this fix, have been changed according to the Left Hand Version Rail Networks Fix that is mentioned in technical notes. Maybe the game handles this overpass as rail.

Type:0x296678F7 / Group:0xA966883F / Instance:0x44030000, 0x44030010, 0x44030100, 0x44030110, 0x44030200, 0x44030210, 0x44030400, 0x44030410, 0x44030500, 0x44030510, 0x44030600, 0x44030610 (Original IIDs of these PATHs are 0x04030###)

If the NAM Team updates the Left Hand Version Plugin in the future, feel free to merge this fix into it.

MAS71

Hi Ebina san and NAM teams.

@Ebina san
Yes! Thanks a lot for your solution fix !!  &apls
Ebinaさん、解決策の発見と公開、お疲れ様です。なによりもありがとうございます!! :)
実は随分以前にこのバグ報告をNAMチームにしてはいたものの、対応していただけず :-[
NAMもまだまだ開発真っ最中ですし、次のアップデートには是非修正して頂けたらと思いますね ;)

ebina

Quote from: MAS71 on October 25, 2007, 09:47:26 PM
@Ebina san
Yes! Thanks a lot for your solution fix !!  &apls
Ebinaさん、解決策の発見と公開、お疲れ様です。なによりもありがとうございます!! :)
実は随分以前にこのバグ報告をNAMチームにしてはいたものの、対応していただけず :-[
NAMもまだまだ開発真っ最中ですし、次のアップデートには是非修正して頂けたらと思いますね ;)
MAS san: Oh, you had told it to them... If I'm not mistaken it was almost 4 month ago, if you told the issue then, someone of the NAM Team may have touched (and already fixed) it.
そうでしたか。四ヶ月近く経ってるはずなので、NAM Teamのどなたかが既に問題に着手されていたかもしれませんね。あるいは修正済みかもしれません...

NAM Team: Excuse my interference, but I wanted to fix this early for the people, especially a person who has reported the issue. I may have wasted someone's time even if what I did could be help... sorry.

Shadow Assassin

Actually, it's a great idea, we need all the help we can get. :P
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mott

Quote from: Tropod on October 03, 2007, 11:45:28 PM
The way I see it, generally speaking commuters have preferences when it comes to commuting, whether it be by walk, car, bus, train etc. Now I would hardly think for a minute that Maxis programmed 'attitudes' into Sims,

They did.  There's a perference setting for each wealth level in the Commute Simulator Tuning Parameters exemplar (the "pathfinding" file). 
"Commute Preference by Wealth Level," I think it's called, something like that. 

If the Sim has a preference, he will use his "preferred" method if it gets him to work within the Max Commute time, and will not consider any other method unless his preferred one fails.  Only then will he will then try the other method.   The game adds an artificial "time penalty" to his commute when this happens. That penalty is controlled by the "Trip Starting Cost by Transit Type" entries in the "pathfinding file" also.  There are three entries, one for each of the preferences ("fastest," is considered "no preference"). 

Quote
a Short commute for one sim, may be considered not short by another sim (even if it is the same/similar).

Here's how the "Commute Length" is calculated - it's done two different ways by two different processes, and that's how the "abandonment issues" came about.

The zone developer (and demand/desirability?) calculate the *expected* time it would take to reach a job or amenity, according to the formula:
Expected Time Te = (Manhattan Distance * Pathfinding Heuristic)

If (Te < 10), the commute is considered "short" by the developer at this stage.  If (10 <= Te < 100) it is "medium," and at (Te >= 100) is long.

It builds accordingly.

After development, when Sims move in to the building and try to commute to work, the pathfinding process ("Commute Simulator," internally) calculates a *real* path to the job.  The lot-query "Commute Length" is changed to reflect the *actual* time it took the Sim to reach the job, instead of the heuristic estimate, according to the formula:

Actual Time Ta = (Map Steps Taken / Max Commute) * 255

And again, if Ta < 10 it is "short," if it is between 10 and 100 it is "medium", and then "long" after that.

There is a setting called "Commute Time Display Multiplier" in the "pathfinding file," that *may* be a scalar multiplier on Te/Ta before these inequality comparisons occur, but I haven't gotten any conclusive results.  I think it was used for this purpose in Vanilla, but Rush Hour ignores it and uses code in the EXE instead, to account for the different possible map sizes.  I'm not sure; I have to check it more.

Note that the "Commute Length" on the query is an average of all residents.  If the trip would be "short" by car, but all the residents choose to walk, that takes a lot more time and the commute will likely show as "medium."  Once the Sims have moved in to the building, the estimate is replaced with the reality of whatever those particular Sims are doing.

Also, note especially that the "Pathfinding Heuristic" is used by the developer process (and everything else, like the advice system) to *estimate* the commute times that the Commute Engine will find.   The pathfinder may refer to this heuristic estimate to check its progress toward the goal, but this is not the primary purpose of the heuristic.

Quote
However, having said this; If I recall, Residents/Commerce TrafficNoise/Customer numbers is derived based on data from specific localised areas (4 tile radius I think?) within Residents/Commerce,

It looks within a 4-tile radius, and finds the tiles with the highest morning and evening traffic volumes.  The two counts are added together, to obtain total morning+evening traffic nearby.  This number is then multiplied by a scalar (I forget what it's called; it's one of the first entries in the "pathfinding file" and the default value is 0.128).  Any result larger than 255 is replaced with 255, so the final result will be in the range 0-255.

It then uses a range comparison just like the commute time display does, to decide whether to display "low," or "medium," or "high."  I don't know the ranges offhand, but I think they're listed in _constants.lua.

A business's "customers" and a resident's "traffic noise" are the same thing.  Note also that any vehicles that don't produce traffic (such as buses, and I think pedestrians?) won't count as noise or customers.   Which could be a problem for ped-mall lovers.

Quote
I have personally examined the Developer Exemplars (ones that deal with Commute Time for each individual RCI Property 0x87CD6346 & 0x87CD6347 can't remember which one, may be both) & adjust things so they're more balanced, but with mixed results (from the limited moding I did of it). If one has a look at these 2 properties though, you will see that a few of the Developer Exemplars they're in have a narrow range, so I am not the least bit surprised the way it behaves in-game. Unless someone is will to do extensive & thorough testing with modding this particular aspect, I dare say this will continue to happen.

Best leave those alone - if you increase those numbers and carry it all the way through, you'll end up doing the same thing as if you'd just increased Max Commute Time.  Max Commute Time is the key, global scalar variable that all the simulators use to define time and distance.

sollord

I've got the missing GLR station bug from the station patch and short of removing it as I want to get more station styles. I was wondering if you guys had a list some place with all the GLR stations you patched so people can download them instead of guessing what is what and where it all is posted?

Shadow Assassin

QuoteI think it was used for this purpose in Vanilla, but Rush Hour ignores it and uses code in the EXE instead, to account for the different possible map sizes.  I'm not sure; I have to check it more.

There were small, medium and large maps in Vanilla, too. RH probably ignores it because the mechanics of the game were changed because of the new transport options and modifications.
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Andreas

Quote from: sollord on October 27, 2007, 12:33:02 AM
I've got the missing GLR station bug from the station patch and short of removing it as I want to get more station styles. I was wondering if you guys had a list some place with all the GLR stations you patched so people can download them instead of guessing what is what and where it all is posted?

Well, I must admit that the GLR station patch is a bit inconvenient to use, but it wasn't really possible to create a list, because I gathered the GLR stations from various sites a long time ago. Due to the poor naming scheme of some of them, it might be hard to figure out which file belongs to which station, but the patches have the very same filenames than the original lots, only with a "z_draggable_GLR_Patch_" prefix. However, you can look at vester_DK's GLR station thread at Simtropolis (which is also linked in the NAM readme file) for a (more or less) complete overview about the available GLR stations.

I don't know how you guys have structured your plugins folder, but I know virtually any plugin that I have installed by memory, and because I structured my plugins folder by creator names, it's a piece of cake to find the relevant files. I can only suggest to create a similar organization with your plugins folder, everything else turns into a mess quickly. ;)
Andreas

Crissa

    I folder by type, and put the creators name in the filename.  I'd love to show an example, but list tags don't work right here.

    So all GLR stations would be in 'glr stations' with the name of the station and the creators' name in the name of the file.  Where I put that folder, well... Depends on how many other related items I have.

    But I also have a download folder which has hardly any organization, it's by 'whatever they named it as'.

    Ugh.  I really try to avoid adding lots in if I can, having too many ploppables in the menus really slows me down when playing.  I hate it.

    -Crissa

frdrcklim

Can anyone gimme instructions and the needed files on how to get draggable GLR. Also the same thing for roundabouts and those smooth road/rail curves. :)
300... 200... 100... 50... 40... 30... 20... 10

Yep, I still got it.

jplumbley

@frdrcklim...

Draggable GLR is on the LEX in the NAM Section.  It will be named Draggable GLR (at work, so no time for link).

This addition will put a ploppable Draggable GLR Puzzle piece in the Trains menu if I am not mistaken.  Use this puzzle piece to plop where you want to begin the Draggable System.  Then use the El-Rail tool and drag it from the end of the puzzle piece you plopped, it will magically change everything into GLR.  If you have used the SAM (Street Addon Mod) it works in the same fashion.

Roundabouts and Curved Roads require NAM fron June 2007 (on the LEX).  The Roundabouts are draggable configurations, but the Avenue Roundabout is a ploppable puzzle piece found in the Road Menu.  Curved Roads are also puzzle pieces, I believe put at the end of the Road Rotation Ring (using TAB).
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Tarkus

frdrcklim, just to add to what jplumbley said, the Draggable GLR is included in the June NAM.  It's going to be under the Misc. Transit menu with the Elevated Light Rail.  There will be a little icon for it that shows a GLR track and and an arrow.  There's a few options for the starter pieces, so be sure to TAB through the loop.  In order to make sure it works properly, just check the readme file carefully, and/or my NAM installation guide, found here

Hope that helps.

-Alex (Tarkus)