The RTMT V3 Support Thread

[newsimaddict]

I think we need to get to the bottom of this.  First, a few questions:

Have you modified the files you have installed since the initial installation?  If so, how?  In any case, could you please list your current RTMT T-RAM files and their folders?

I'm not surprised that you were eventually able to delete the stations - they were basically incomplete, and completing them properly would have made them deletable.  So I think that this is further evidence for an installation error.

I was planning to track this down personally, but I've been a little short of time recently.  So instead, I'll get the crack RTMT SWAT Team on it right away.   

In the mean time, whatever additional information you can provide would be quite helpful.

EDIT:  What's this "tram on air" version that you refer to?

)

dumb of me - i meant tram on road and tram in road...sorry, i didn't mean to startle people with trams flying off in the distance...(though that would be funny.

I don't believe I've changed the installation files - I've added the patch (well i think i have) and have the night bat patch installed...
I've never changed the station model files so it's not that. The bus stops I have used briefly but never had the same issue. Actually I have easily over a hundred avenue tram stops and never had the problem - it was just the tram-on-road & tram-in-road versions - both 'tram & bus stop' and 'tram stop.'

I'll take a pic of my folder and show you what I've installed within 24hrs - mind you despite my best efforts to install and remove certain files, there's probably a good chance I've stuffed up somewhere...

[z]

The RTMT team appears to have found the cause of the undeletable T-RAM stations problem, along with a way to avoid this problem completely in the future.  The problem appears to occur only in the original T-RAM station set (and even then, only very occasionally).  There was an update to these stations on March 3rd to fix what turns out to be a related problem; the undeletable station problem does not occur with the updated stations.  You can tell whether or not you have the updated stations by looking at the date of the Readme file; if it is March 3rd, you have the updated stations.  We strongly recommend that all users of these stations who do not have the updated stations get them and install them; you can find them here.  If you have the original files, you can simply overwrite them with the updated ones.  Please be sure to follow the directions in the Readme file exactly.  The installation directions are the same as before, but the usage instructions have been simplified; it is no longer necessary to plop the stations in a particular orientation (other than having the road line up, of course).  We are now trying to see if there is a way to delete the undeletable stations that currently exist.

Technical details:  The original set of stations was updated specifically to remove the orientation limitation.  This limitation was caused by the orientation of the main building on the lot; the main building actually doesn't exist in any of the current RTMT lots, as all the buildings are props.  So until now, the orientation of the main building was random, and this had caused no problems in any previous RTMT stations.  But it was responsible for the orientation limitation in the T-RAM stations.  When oriented in the "wrong" direction, they blocked all traffic; in a way, it was as if the stations didn't exist.  This definitely seems related to the undeletable stations, which can't be deleted because part of the game thinks they don't exist in the first place.  Fixing the orientation of the nonexistent building fixed both problems.

dumb of me - i meant tram on road and tram in road...sorry, i didn't mean to startle people with trams flying off in the distance...(though that would be funny.

One reason I asked is that there is a known problem with some of gshmails' GLR-in-Avenue stations where the trams actually jump up 15m into the air when they reach the station.    SimFox recently released a fix for this on the STEX.

[z]

A little while ago, I posted some instructions for deleting RTMT T-RAM stations that users had found to be undeletable.  Unfortunately, there were some errors in that message, and it's easier to repost the message in its correct form than to try to make edits to it.  So here it is, corrected:

The RTMT Team has found a way to delete the undeletable T-RAM stations, and fortunately, it's very simple.  It's basically a slight variation of a known way of dealing with immortal lots.  Although we still have not been able to duplicate this problem here, we were able to obtain an afflicted city from one of our users, and we verified that that method works on that city.  We expect that it should work on all such cities, but if you have a city where this method doesn't work, please let us know.  Here's the fix:

1. Once you have finished this process, and only then, be sure your RTMT T-RAM stations are updated to the current version, which was released March 3rd.  The simplest way of seeing which version you have is to look at the Readme file; if it is dated March 3rd, you have the latest version.  If you are still using the first version, you should download the latest version from here.  Only two files were changed; RTMT_Lots_T-RAM_Euro.dat and Readme_RTMT_T-RAM_Stations.html.  So if you install just these two files, you will have the latest version (as of now).  But this step should be taken only at the end of this process.

2. To actually delete the stations, you need the first version of the main lot file.  If you've already installed the updated version of these stations, you just have to temporarily replace the first file in boldface in the last paragraph with the older version, which I have attached at the end of this message.  When you have finished deleting stations, replace the old version with the newer one.  (You have to exit the game to make any of these changes, of course.)

3. For each undeletable station, plop a similar station in parallel with it, one on either side of the undeletable station.  They should be stacked as if there were three T-RAM roads - not sequential as if there were only one T-RAM road.  The two new stations may point in either direction, but they must both point in the same direction.  You should now have a three station "sandwich," with the undeletable station in the middle.

4. Delete all three stations in a single operation, starting with either of the outer stations.  The undeletable station should be deleted along with them.  And after upgrading to the current version of these stations, as described in Step 1, no more undeletable stations should appear.   We have had no reports of undeletable stations created while using the current version.

We have also gleaned a little more information about how these undeletable stations came about in the first place.  My previous post describes most of what we found.  Since then, we have accumulated evidence that the undeletable stations were originally plopped in the "wrong" direction.  (Direction no longer matters in the current version.)  Yet this in itself did not make the stations undeletable, as we have plopped and deleted many such stations successfully, even saving and reloading their city in the process.  So this problem seems to affect a very small minority of users for reasons that are as yet undetermined.  But the fix above should get rid of the undeletable stations; please let us know if it does not.

[life with style]

Its not working for me.  I've followed the instructions closely, I had the old version and I did the sandwich maneuver (with the stations facing the same direction) but it just didn't work for me.

I had also noticed at certain times of the day in the game you could click and see the station stats and other times you'd just see something in that little talking balloon (that comes up when you hover/highlight a building) that says "RTMT_Prop_Generic_GLRShelter_Road".

I love this mod so much, but damn I think i'll have to destroy my city if it doesn't work

I used to have this same exact problem with the hole digging mod (the first one from ST)

[life with style]

I figured it out, by sandwich, I thought you had mean linear as  to delete them in this formation - - -

but then I had tried it like this

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-
-

and everything worked out!

Thanks!

[z]

I'm glad that worked for you!  I looked back and saw that my directions were slightly ambiguous (as you discovered), so I made them a bit clearer.

[jplumbley]

I've looked fairly hard in the old pages of Simtropolis and I have found this thread which might be useful for those trying to get rid of the "Immortal Buildings".

http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=24&threadid=96639&highlight_key=y&keyword1=immortal

There are some ideas on how to remove the immortal lots there.


As for the *causes* of immortal lot syndrome, I cant remember what they were and I remember reading a thread by Twrecks way back, most likely in 2005 or something because Simtropolis wont let me search beyond 2006 threads.  If someone would be able to find that thread by Twrecks, it had a very good explaination of what Immortal Lot Syndrome is and what the key issues were with those lots.  IF memory serves me correctly, the issue is caused by overhanging buildings or when the building is placed directly on the edge of the lot (I believe).  It would be nice if someone can find that thread by Twrecks though.  I put my money on it has been archived.


EDIT:  whoops, completely missed the last page of responses!  Owell, this information still should be useful to others who have had the Immortal Lots Syndrome.

[z]

IF memory serves me correctly, the issue is caused by overhanging buildings or when the building is placed directly on the edge of the lot (I believe).  It would be nice if someone can find that thread by Twrecks though.

Yes, it was that building that was causing all our problems.  And it doesn't even exist as a real building in RTMT stations!  Although our problems with this building have all been fixed for these stations, we've had advance warning from Chrisim that that building will rear its ugly head once again when we start working on our diagonal stations.  So if someone does have a copy of that thread by Twrecks, or knows how to find it, it could be very useful in avoiding problems with that building when constructing the diagonal stations.

At the same time, it sounds like Chrisim has been forced to rediscover a lot of this on his own, so he's sure to be a good resource when the time comes.

[life with style]

Hey even with the update I still get the undeletable stations, but I've noticed something interesting

for some reason I still have to set the stations South and West to get my sims to actually use them

but other than that

I've noticed when I plop a station down

If I have a 2x2 building that grows right on the side of the station like this

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almost like a sandwich on both sides, the station becomes undeletable.

but say if I do something like this

I place a RTMT tram stop in between two blocks

now I plop two 2x2 corner buildings so that 1 tile of each are facing the station
the problem is gone

I usually place them on side of the station or both.

I've noticed the new modd acts funny with certain buildings I plop by the station making it Instantly undeletable
one of these buildings is Jasoncw's Brei Market & Happy Camera (from the Stex)

when I plop this by one of the stations, there's nothing on the lot! its pretty odd

sometimes It happens with bigger buildings, but I'm not exactly sure why.

[z]

This is very strange.  This is the first report we've received of problems with the updated station set.  First, could you tell me the date on the file RTMT_Lots_T-RAM_Euro.dat?  And are you sure you don't have a second copy of that file somewhere in your Plugins folders?  Also, does any of the problematic behavior happen if the stations are plopped pointing south or west, or does it only happen if they're plopped pointing north or east?

[life with style]

actually my bad, I'm just noticing I had one that was labeled "Old" that you had posted in this thread as an attachment.  I've got the game booted up right now, and i'm playing it.  So far so good

I'm sorry about that man!! My fault.

thank you again for your hard work, it is definitely appreciated!

[chibytuga]

Okay, I have a question regarding the traffic simulator options in the installer, and I haven't seen it posted on this thread anywhere...

It asks whether you are using regular NAM, 2x capacity, 5x capacity, etc etc, which aren't in the NAM anymore if I'm not mistaken. I'm using Simulator A - Medium, so which option would that correspond to?

[z]

The best thing to do is to pick any of the capacity options, and then after installation is complete, follow the directions in the RTMT Patch 3.51 post, which will tell you how to get the latest files.  For your situation, you should pick the "High" option of the patch files.

[chibytuga]

Cool, thanks.

[tylero]

Hi !

I'm probablly going to sound seriously dumb but these stations appear as in avenue stations whilst I'm in game and I thought (and wanted) them to be in road or on road stations - is there anything i'm doing wrong ?

Thanks

[z]

It sounds like you're simply picking the avenue stations out of the menu, while you need to pick the road stations instead.  The road stations are above the avenue stations, and when you hover your mouse over a station in the menu, it tells you exactly what it is.

[tylero]

the only road station that appears is the one with the green shelter the rest don't appear in the menu 

[z]

Please post a screen shot of your menu, starting at the beginning of the RTMT stations.

[tylero]

here we are





you can see in the screen shots the only type of in road / on road station I am able to aquire.

in case the embedding doesn't work :

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/tylervirgo/screen2.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o95/tylervirgo/screen1.jpg

[z]

The embedding worked fine.

It appears that when you did the initial installation, you did not check the box labeled "Install the Roadtop Stations."  Failure to do so would give you exactly the results you have shown.  Please try re-installing with that box checked.  It is not necessary to uninstall first, as long as you use the same installation folder.

On Simtropolis, you mentioned that you were unable to get the T-RAM stations, yet you have one displayed in your picture.  To choose a different T-RAM station, please read the Readme file for them.