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SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Network Addon Mod (NAM) => NAM Creations => Topic started by: allan_kuan1992 on September 22, 2007, 01:08:11 AM

Title: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on September 22, 2007, 01:08:11 AM
Now... as an introduction, this project is focused on new bus lanes. A few years ago, someone else in Simtropolis also attempted this and they were successful, but the mod stalled and eventually died because of a lack of time and because of lack of modders. Of course, with the SC4D modders occupied with other projects and RL, I've taken the initiative of making the textures, or at least the straight network textures. They are attached below.

With the rise in draggable technology, this is the time to start a revival of an old project, albiet with new textures from scratch. From what I know, the predecessor to this project used puzzle pieces, which, although useful, were slow to lay down. Using draggable overrides will definitely speed up the game. However, from what I've seen in other projects like the GLR and the RHW, using this new technology requires overrides, and possibly lots of them. That i am unfamiliar with... but with some teachings from the experts, I might be able to get myself running in time.

As for textures, I'm using very primitive and basic texturing tools like MS Paint and Paint.NET. I do have Inkscape, a free vector graphics editor, but it is not easy to use the thing, especially since I'm totally new to the world of vector graphics. I may need help with the textures with the intersections and curves, but we'll see.

EDIT: Forgot to add, the bus lanes are coloured red because I thought that would make them easier to be seen. If you object to it, then tell me and I'll create black versions instead.

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on September 22, 2007, 04:07:18 AM
Unforunately the game can't tell the difference between Buses and other road vehicles, the only way to do it would be to have a TE lot, which blocks everything except buses, at both ends of the Bus Lanes.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on September 22, 2007, 06:02:04 PM
Not really...

http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=67307&STARTPAGE=1

This link goes to the predecessor project. And some photos of the alpha version done by edcase2k4:

http://home.btconnect.com/SMD/simcityfiles/buslaneworking.jpg

http://home.btconnect.com/SMD/simcityfiles/buslaneworking2.jpg

However, the paths and type21 exemplars gave edcase2k4 trouble, and he eventually abandoned the project because of lack of time to fix them.

Of course, I would like to see this project revived, but in a draggable format, since the one they did was based on puzzle pieces.

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Filasimo on September 22, 2007, 06:04:17 PM
allan,
i remember me and alex had discussed some methods we can do to make this work perhaps it may become reality when we get to it... ;)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on September 22, 2007, 06:10:49 PM
Oh thank you! =)

- Allan K
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: figui on September 22, 2007, 09:59:37 PM
this seems to be a good idea.
about the colours: i think the red one is not realistic, but if you want to make it different to the black of the asphalt road, you can use a grey like concrete. it's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 22, 2007, 10:27:50 PM
Actually, in most parts of the world, the asphalt is painted a different colour to signify that it is a special occupancy lane.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: figui on September 22, 2007, 10:38:05 PM
thats a point.
we don't have this kind of hov lanes in uruguay (neither in montevideo) so i had no experience about this.
local government is about to implement this next year, but i really don't think that the asphalt would be painted (to save $$). it's more likely that they will draw some signs (those diamonds) or just paint "bus only" (but in spanish)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on September 23, 2007, 12:47:55 AM
In Vancouver, believe it or not... the only red bus lanes are in the Granville Mall, and that area is closed for Canada Line construction!

In other places, diamonds and the words BUS LANE are used on plain black asphalt... which to me can make it hard to tell the difference between the standard lanes and the bus lanes. This is why I coloured it red, but with a few simple tweaks, it could be changed to black.

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Andreas on September 23, 2007, 09:01:12 AM
In Germany, there's only the word "BUS" painted on the road, and blue signs with a bus symbol are put up. The only red marking on roads I know is for a bicycle path, or in some cases it's used instead of a zebra crossing, i. e. if it's near a school, so kids are using the crossing.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 23, 2007, 11:43:51 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexpressway.paulrands.com%2Fphotogallery%2Froads%2Fnsw%2Fnumbered%2Fsr40%2F03windsortoparramatta%2Fimages%2F01baulkhamhills.jpg&hash=ba5fa412fbca1fd029bb80cae5751c6dc5fa6033)

As you can see, the section's painted red with BUS ONLY on it. Cars are only on it because it is legal for a car to use a bus lane for 50m as long as they use it to turn into an adjoining street.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Diggis on September 23, 2007, 11:49:18 PM
Yeah they are red here too.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Indisguise on September 24, 2007, 06:02:52 AM
stubled apon this onea little late..:S

my question(s) would this type of road be truely functional (the buses actually the only ones using the asigned roadway) or is this just a eyecandy type thing ???

If it is fuctional would it effect ped walking or possible trafic flow of the path finding (eg will cars turn right or left over top of this road, and would these be a new type of road differnt from existing roads (if thats possible)

as an eyecandy type mod, you could release several differnt colours, around here we don't have "bus lanes" but have many bicycle only lanes (eviromentally friendly ppl seem to get the right of way)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: jplumbley on September 24, 2007, 07:27:23 AM
Functionality wise, you cannot currently get this to work.  Atleast not properly.  You may be able to create TE Lot to block Car Traffic from using the road, but you will not be able to allow both Car and Bus traffic and determine which lanes they drive in unless they are in separate tiles.  Essentially, the best way to implement a "functional" HOV/Bus lane system would be a 3-tile wide Avenue, or a 3-tile wide Highway where in both cases the middle tile is the HOV/Bus lanes for the network.

With the TE Lots you will only be able to outrigth block traffic fully for either busses or cars.  You cannot prevent car traffic in only one lane.  This is the limitation due to the fact that busses follow the same paths as cars.  The only way I can see this working functionally would be by changing bus traffic into say monorail traffic and set the monorail traffic speed to be equal to the bus speed on this network.  But the issue with this is you will get monorail automata rather than bus automata.

So, for the functionality of this you will be losing asthetics, if you are going for asthetics you will be losing functionality.  IMHO, this is something that is not worth the effort.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: CarmineHilton on September 24, 2007, 08:14:19 AM
I think it would look very sexy in CJ's..
For me it may even be eyecandy.. I just love the red parts :D

Good luck on this project!
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on September 24, 2007, 10:23:46 AM
Doesn't automata spawn from certain buildings? and if track is connected to that buiding they can use it?
So if you don't directly connect a monorail station to the bus lane network you shouldn't get monorail on the bus lanes, although it may work better with subway paths.
Also what tells automata which paths to follow?
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Emperor Stormont on September 24, 2007, 11:22:54 AM
I think this is a fantastic idea and would make a fantastic addition to the game.

In Northern Ireland we tend not to have the asphalt a different colour, instead the bus lane is marked with a BUS LANE when it starts and a very thick white line along the length of the lane, breaking at junctions and where traffic are allowed to turn into other roads/streets and usually monitored by bus lane cameras to ensure compliance.



Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Haljackey on September 24, 2007, 04:17:31 PM
Nice topic, allan_kuan1992.  Interesting idea, I will be following this thread.

I just had one image to post here to show you what HOV/bus lanes look like here in Canada.  (A picture says 1000 or so words)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onthighways.com%2Fhwy_402-403_images%2F403_cl_111-5_east.jpg&hash=7757ee462f5c98b2603c8685b170bf0676c88278)

Also, I don't know if this is helpful to you at all, but there are two items on the STEX that allow only bus and ped traffic to use a road/one way road once they pass this icon.

Link to HOV Bus Lanes on STEX (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=1834)

I hope you found this helpful and best of luck with the project!
-Haljackey.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: jplumbley on September 24, 2007, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Warrior on September 24, 2007, 10:23:46 AM
Doesn't automata spawn from certain buildings? and if track is connected to that buiding they can use it?
So if you don't directly connect a monorail station to the bus lane network you shouldn't get monorail on the bus lanes, although it may work better with subway paths.
Also what tells automata which paths to follow?

Yes, Swamper and I have talked about Automata Spawners...  But I am still not 100% sure how these work, so I cannot make the definative answer on that.

As for what tells the Automata which paths to follow.  The EXE for the most part, the Automata is given a specific network to follow, but you cannot prevent certain Automata that follow the same paths (Trams and El-Rail Trains) from using a specific path.  So, if you were to make bus Automata that run on Monorail paths (which you can do), you cannot prevent these busses to travel on the actual Monorail System or HSRP.

The reason the Monorail Trains would show on the bus lanes would be because to split the cars from the busses you would have to create a TE Lot that converts bus traffic into monorail traffic, these would essentially be considered Monorail Stations since they are converting one form of traffic into Monorail Traffic.  Catch my drift?  If these TE Lots are not placed at the begining and end and every intersection inbetween on the system you will not be able to convert bus traffic into Monorail Traffic and they will only follow the regular Car Paths instead of the "bus lane" Monorail Paths.

Quote from: Haljackey on September 24, 2007, 04:17:31 PM
Also, I don't know if this is helpful to you at all, but there are two items on the STEX that allow only bus and ped traffic to use a road/one way road once they pass this icon.

Link to HOV Bus Lanes on STEX (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=1834)

I hope you found this helpful and best of luck with the project!
-Haljackey.

Yes Haljackey, this is known.  Thank you for the link but those lots prevent Car Traffic completely, what allen wants to do is have both Cars and Busses exist in the same tile but separated from each other, which is not physically possible in the game itself.  My posts are ideas of how to make it functional within the games limits.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: mightygoose on September 25, 2007, 02:04:30 AM
in the UK the bus lanes are red with a heavy painted white line bordering them, no dimond however, merely the words BUS LANE printed on the surface
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 12:58:25 AM
I had an idea.

QuoteUnforunately the game can't tell the difference between Buses and other road vehicles, the only way to do it would be to have a TE lot, which blocks everything except buses, at both ends of the Bus Lanes.

True, but we can fool the game into thinking there is a difference. The key is using dual-network pieces (say, monorail and road). A specific occupant group would need to be tied to the paths on that piece, as to ensure that monorails don't use the bus lane and vice versa. It's possible, but each puzzle piece would need to be made in such a way that any stations on that particular network spawn that occupant group and only that occupant group. I know it is possible to add new occupant groups, so this is indeed possible.

Plopping an ordinary monorail station, on the other hand... would allow monorails to use the bus network, unless the transit enabling of these stations were changed so that they only use two of the four I/O directions available (eg. east and west, north and south), AND block that bus occupant group. Transit-enabling in SC4Tool has all four in/out directions enabled by default, which causes that 'jumping' effect that you see on large lots, due to the game simulator exploiting that property. The I/O property is not affected by how the lot is transit-enabled, it simply enables occupant groups that are allowed on the lot. That's how the HOV lot worked, it blocked all groups except for pedestrian and buses.

It should be possible to block the monorail occupant group (the train) and allow a special bus occupant group. Think about how the SFBT, with their stations, experimented with this idea, thereby allowing specific GLR models to appear for their corresponding stations. For example, a Red Line Station would spawn Red Line trams, but a Blue Line Station would spawn Blue Line trams. These stations could block other trams from using them: a Red Line Station would only allow Red Line trams to stop there, the Blue Line trams were blocked.

So, it is indeed possible, but the key is the dual-networking pieces.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Tarkus on September 30, 2007, 01:09:14 AM
Now that is an amazingly brilliant thought, SA. :thumbsup:  In theory, that should work very well, and it would get rid of those pesky TE-Lots.  I like fooling the game. :P 

-Alex (Tarkus)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Andreas on September 30, 2007, 02:57:03 AM
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 12:58:25 AM
It should be possible to block the monorail occupant group (the train) and allow a special bus occupant group. Think about how the SFBT, with their stations, experimented with this idea, thereby allowing specific GLR models to appear for their corresponding stations. For example, a Red Line Station would spawn Red Line trams, but a Blue Line Station would spawn Blue Line trams. These stations could block other trams from using them: a Red Line Station would only allow Red Line trams to stop there, the Blue Line trams were blocked.

This is a nice theory indeed, however I'm not sure if we can make a station blocking automata. The BSC SFBT GLR Tram Mod is indeed set up in a way that the stations spawn specific automata (much like the schools spawn school buses), but the automata that is created will use all suitable network tiles - this means if you plop a red and a blue GLR station on one GLR line, both red and blue trams will appear.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on September 30, 2007, 03:09:35 AM
SA: you're saying we can add new automata?
It sounds brilliant but like Tarkus said it's theory and theory doesn't all ways work well in SC4.  ;)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 03:13:02 AM
Yeah, basically, adding new automata. It's been done before. I know it is possible, since we already have some Dual Network pieces (notably the Avenue/GLR pieces).
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Andreas on September 30, 2007, 03:16:42 AM
Yes, you can add new automata, however only "single piece" automata - not entire trains with cars, unfortunately. Furthermore, the automata that is added by the usage of occupants and automata generator scripts doesn't reflect the actual usage of a station etc., but is just randomly spawned by the lot.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Tarkus on September 30, 2007, 03:17:59 AM
Well, if it's set up so that the Monorail network (or whatever network gets used) can never access the spots where the bus lanes are, the two automata types will essentially be kept separate.  Just as long as the Monorail automata can be kept off the bus lanes.

-Alex (Tarkus)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 03:20:53 AM
QuoteYes, you can add new automata, however only "single piece" automata - not entire trains with cars, unfortunately.

Isn't that what a bus basically is - single piece automata? :P
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on September 30, 2007, 03:24:44 AM
So why doesn't Trains(normal rail) use GLR? Seeing as the GLR has to be pathed for UDI or Trams use Rail?
And is adding automata soemthing to do with Ingred.ini?
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Andreas on September 30, 2007, 03:40:24 AM
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 03:20:53 AM
Isn't that what a bus basically is - single piece automata? :P

Yes. But I didn't want to raise hopes for new HSRP trains, for instance. ;)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 03:53:22 AM
I see.

Warrior: normal rail doesn't use GLR because they are on two very different networks.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: JoeST on September 30, 2007, 03:54:58 AM
Is it not because GLR is bassed on Elevated Rail? so they would share automata???
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on September 30, 2007, 03:55:54 AM
Andreas : Wow your good, that's twice you've read my mind ;D
I would love to ask why only single piece automata can be added but:
I can see this going off-topic shortly...

HALFEDIT: I wouldn't exactly say monorail and road/buses are the same?
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: figui on September 30, 2007, 11:36:15 AM
this has become much interesting!
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: jplumbley on September 30, 2007, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 12:58:25 AM
I had an idea.

True, but we can fool the game into thinking there is a difference. The key is using dual-network pieces (say, monorail and road). A specific occupant group would need to be tied to the paths on that piece, as to ensure that monorails don't use the bus lane and vice versa. It's possible, but each puzzle piece would need to be made in such a way that any stations on that particular network spawn that occupant group and only that occupant group. I know it is possible to add new occupant groups, so this is indeed possible.

Plopping an ordinary monorail station, on the other hand... would allow monorails to use the bus network, unless the transit enabling of these stations were changed so that they only use two of the four I/O directions available (eg. east and west, north and south), AND block that bus occupant group. Transit-enabling in SC4Tool has all four in/out directions enabled by default, which causes that 'jumping' effect that you see on large lots, due to the game simulator exploiting that property. The I/O property is not affected by how the lot is transit-enabled, it simply enables occupant groups that are allowed on the lot. That's how the HOV lot worked, it blocked all groups except for pedestrian and buses.

It should be possible to block the monorail occupant group (the train) and allow a special bus occupant group. Think about how the SFBT, with their stations, experimented with this idea, thereby allowing specific GLR models to appear for their corresponding stations. For example, a Red Line Station would spawn Red Line trams, but a Blue Line Station would spawn Blue Line trams. These stations could block other trams from using them: a Red Line Station would only allow Red Line trams to stop there, the Blue Line trams were blocked.

So, it is indeed possible, but the key is the dual-networking pieces.

Yes SA, your theory should be doable using TE Lots and Puzzle Pieces, but then we are back to a old GLR situation in which we will have to deal with the CTD issue with Puzzle Pieces (Network Pieces) and the TE Lots (Stations).  I was looking at this from a draggable point of view because personally, I would like to stay away from the Puzzle Piece/TE Lot solution.  As I dont want to deal with the CTD complaints that we cannot do anything about.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Tarkus on September 30, 2007, 12:35:16 PM
Jason, the only TE Lots I really see that would be necessary for this would be the stations themselves.  The concept is actually kind of similar to GLR-in-Ave, it's just Monorail-in-Ave (or whatever network) and the automata spawned by the stations are buses.  As long as we can get the Monorail and the pseudo-Monorail bus lanes to not cross paths, we're good, and that can be accomplished through either draggable or puzzle-piece-based means rather than a TE Lot.

-Alex (Tarkus)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on September 30, 2007, 12:50:59 PM
So it wouldn't be able to monorail over Buslanes intersection?
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: jplumbley on September 30, 2007, 01:02:38 PM
Not without a puzzle piece Warrior.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on September 30, 2007, 05:13:02 PM
lemme get this straight...

- network is puzzle-piece based
- a monorail path will be used on the bus lane
- bus stop lots will spawn bus vehicles that will travel on the monorail path

If this is correct... hmm... well... i did say i wanted a draggable implementation... but then again, limitations... >.< oh wells... i'm willing to compromise.

in the meantime i'll tweak with the textures that might be needed.

- Allan K.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Tarkus on September 30, 2007, 05:35:28 PM
Actually, Allan, provided some experiments jplumbley and I are working on pan out, it could be draggable, with the possible exception of the Monorail/Bus Lane crossing (similar to the El-Light Rail/GLR crossing).

-Alex
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 06:25:30 PM
We could have both a draggable single-network (just exclusive buslanes) and the buslane in ave/road/whatever.

So, it'd probably end up being more a hybrid network.

EDIT: Oh, looky, I started a new page again :P

I might actually start doing some (preliminary) textures, when I have some free time.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Mayor Abe on October 19, 2007, 06:35:24 PM
This seems like an excellent idea (the TE lots are annoying) About the red textures, though, the NYCDOT has started putting them in some parts of New York's Midtown as a pilot program to see if driver actually respect the lanes. I mention this because I think the red lanes are realistic
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Diggis on October 20, 2007, 03:12:40 AM
just one query... it appears that while they will look like bus lanes, with bus automata travelling on them, they will really be monorail, with normal busses not travelling on them? and the route query will not show bus but monorail traffic?
Title: Bus Lanes Concept - Revival
Post by: Lollo on June 23, 2008, 02:27:55 AM
The most would probably call this bumping, but I seriously have something to share...

Since recreating Bus lanes is one of my major tasks, I've been working for a while on making textures. Here is what I've obtained so far:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg516.imageshack.us%2Fimg516%2F3593%2Fprototipeit8.jpg&hash=f436dc59ab3d7345da9a87e2a3e6f1311b5683e7)

The little sidewalks in the center to be covered with T21s such as the usual avenue medians...

Unfortunately, it is not possible to make three tiles draggable networks, but I was thinking of a workaround that involves subsequent overrides: When one drags a OWR beside a road, in this configuration:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F5539%2Fasideue3.jpg&hash=055d51a025eb390b90d2092db9faa65ba26217c2)
an override makes it appear as this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg95.imageshack.us%2Fimg95%2F6203%2Fstep2oc9.jpg&hash=ae99168932422525f5215f54edae200cd721d05f)
texture1,texture2=texture3,texture4
Then, dragging another OWR beside the freshly made texture, in this way:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg295.imageshack.us%2Fimg295%2F9708%2Fstep3rm6.jpg&hash=d0b8af01300f34bd56aeeb92a57cbc0f95735dd3)
another override would make it look like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg410.imageshack.us%2Fimg410%2F3564%2Fstep4sv5.jpg&hash=f03dea3b797326fb25344da950a968d76efdb356)
texture3,texture5=texture3,texture6
Of course the whole method would involve a traffic blocker at the beginning of the lane, just to allow bus and bus only to pass through, which seems not to be liked here.... :P

Is this process feasible???
I hope to receive comments on this.....  ;)

Ah.... The Bus Taxi paint is just for the beginning of the lane, and resembles the ones here in Rome
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: JoeST on June 23, 2008, 08:14:49 AM
that looks NICE!

Joe
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on June 23, 2008, 09:48:21 AM
QuoteIs this process feasible???

Of course it is. It's how most override-based networks work. I like to call it an "cascading override", because well, it says what it does: texture 1 and 2 lead to 2 and 3 and so on...

It isn't a bad idea, really. However, what'd be more convenient, on the other hand would just be using the road network, and then using bus blockers. Gives more flexibility.

But what would most definitely be cool would be bus lanes, rather than busways [what Lollo has basically shown is a busway].
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Lollo on June 23, 2008, 01:14:05 PM
Quotewhat Lollo has basically shown is a busway

Indeed they are..... Regarding Bus lanes I don't think they're possible without splitting bus and normal traffic using a trick such as the above-shown "Bus to monorail conversion", but who knows...
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 23, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
I like the concept of this, and it seems pretty feasible to me, not that I know much about this.
I'd definately use it if released.
2 questions though:
1. What's the feasibility of using puzzle pieces to initiate the override (RHW-style) instead of just dragging the networks next to each other.
2. Do you think that the extra third lane added to the OWR on each side would be able to be functional?

So what if they're only busways instead of bus lanes (no offense SA)? It's still cooler than just using TE'd traffic blocking lots.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Lollo on June 23, 2008, 11:16:09 PM
Quote1. What's the feasibility of using puzzle pieces to initiate the override (RHW-style) instead of just dragging the networks next to each other.
I absolutely don't have an answer for this question.... Hope that one of the NAM gurus would read and comment  :P (Alex, anyone?)
Quote2. Do you think that the extra third lane added to the OWR on each side would be able to be functional?
They undoubtedly would, after a proper repathing
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Tarkus on June 23, 2008, 11:33:37 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on June 23, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
2 questions though:
1. What's the feasibility of using puzzle pieces to initiate the override (RHW-style) instead of just dragging the networks next to each other.

It's definitely possible.  The only limitation there is we might run out of "false intersections" for starters, though that may be awhile.

Quote
2. Do you think that the extra third lane added to the OWR on each side would be able to be functional?

Well, it can be pathed, but unless it's onto another tile, it won't technically add capacity.

-Alex (Tarkus)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 23, 2008, 11:41:04 PM
Wow. And there he is, appearing while I'm typing, so whole post edited.

Cool. I figured it was possible, just making sure.
It looks like it would be up against the edge of the tile--correct me if I'm wrong--same as RHW6, but would it even really matter if it adds capacity? Do any of us actually still play the game worrying about capacity (or without using the NAM traffic simulators)? Well, actually, nevermind, because surely there are people out there who do, and now I sound like I'm ranting so I'm gonna stop now.
Point is, I wouldn't really care if added capacity as long as the network worked.

Reading this makes me wish the game could determine the number of sims in a car, so we could have HOV lanes!  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: CasperVg on June 24, 2008, 02:52:11 AM
QuoteDo any of us actually still play the game worrying about capacity (or without using the NAM traffic simulators)?
I do, I really have to worry about capacity <-> speed when using the NAM Traffic Plugin "A Hard"; in a city of 1.3 million plus.
(A Hard is suggested for cities under 250k inhabitants  ::))
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on June 24, 2008, 04:11:28 AM
Quote
So what if they're only busways instead of bus lanes (no offense SA)?

None taken. But bus lanes would be very cool. Shame they can't really be functional...
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 24, 2008, 10:02:14 AM
caspervg: OK, wow. Why don't you downgrade? I don't use a traffic plugin, but I'm thinking about using A Easy when I install the next NAM.

SA: Yes it is a shame... At least it's already been confirmed that we can with Cities XL if any of you are interested in it.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Lollo on June 25, 2008, 09:09:14 AM
QuoteAt least it's already been confirmed that we can with Cities XL if any of you are interested in it
Aha... interesting!  &Thk/(

However, here is another prototype I came up with while playing with Euro roads mod....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg295.imageshack.us%2Fimg295%2F5075%2F25396376ms9.jpg&hash=58fa0d36d681159ed792cdfeb3f3300cdea83dcb)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: MandelSoft on June 25, 2008, 10:09:30 AM
This is interresting. I keep an eye on this thread.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 25, 2008, 02:04:24 PM
Yes it is very interesting, and can be read about here (http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?/content/view/6/33/lang,en/) I'm pretty sure, I don't remember exactly where I found it.
When you build a road you set what type of traffic can use each lane, so, for example, to build a two lane road you would need 4 lanes: ped|cars||cars|ped (with sidewalks).
Ooh, even euro textures already.

I had an idea today about this. Couldn't you get it down to two tiles by leaving each OWR 2 lanes and slightly narrowing the sidewalks? Then it could be draggable by an avenue override.  Just a thought.

EDIT: 6/25/08 to fix link
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on June 25, 2008, 02:10:40 PM
Quotedraggable by an avenue override

That will be much harder, two tile networks have medians which have to be taken in to account, so far the NWM has managed to avoid using avenues (i think)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 25, 2008, 02:13:13 PM
Quote from: Warrior on June 25, 2008, 02:10:40 PM
That will be much harder, two tile networks have medians which have to be taken in to account, so far the NWM has managed to avoid using avenues (i think)
That would create problems. I guess the original way is better then.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Lollo on June 25, 2008, 02:18:36 PM
QuoteI had an idea today about this. Couldn't you get it down to two tiles by leaving each OWR 2 lanes and slightly narrowing the sidewalks? Then it could be draggable by an avenue override.  Just a thought.

In addition to what has answered Warrior, making it 2 tiles wide would be impossible without the use of puzzle pieces and different paths for the Busway. (eg monorail)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: flame1396 on June 25, 2008, 02:35:50 PM
I like the monorail idea. Maybe if this is implemented in the next NAM monorail should be disabled to avoid conflicts? (Just a thought...)

I like the GLR in Avenue idea being adapted and textured to look like a buslane (I think black lanes with a fat line and a diamond would be best, words are no big deal)... Even sounds draggable (which means I'd maybe actually use it), seems like time is the issue. Perhaps the NAM gods will smile upon us.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 25, 2008, 03:49:17 PM
Oh... forgot about that. The game can't distinguish between lane usage. Had a momentary brain lapse there.
I think monorail would be too much trouble (or at least it sounds complicated to me), so I'd still just go with the 3 lane idea.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Jonathan on June 25, 2008, 11:09:03 PM
Quotemonorail should be disabled to avoid conflicts?

Well from a HSRP point of view, I had planned on using Rail paths instead of monorail paths for HSRP, to give a different speed from monorail, so if this did happen it shouldn't effect HSRP that much, although some people wouldn't be happy.

But monorail would also require a TE lot in which case you might as well use a car and Truck blocker.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deathtopumpkins on June 26, 2008, 09:33:12 AM
Or an all-but-bus blocker.  ;)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deion30296 on June 27, 2008, 04:51:51 PM
You could make 2 TE lots compatible with American Road and Euro road textures. Each one would block buses. You would have to consult the NAM Team if its possible that you can post TE lots on such a thing like MIS because it's generally one lane. It's highly likely that you could make something like that because if you can post a Road over MIS puzzle piece why not a bus lane blocker. I would contact them and ask.

Hope this helps people understand.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on June 29, 2008, 04:28:16 AM
QuoteYou would have to consult the NAM Team if its possible that you can post TE lots on such a thing like MIS because it's generally one lane.

Again, it is possible. It's only just the IID for the transit-enabling that needs to be changed so that it can be plopped on top of the network with matching paths.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deion30296 on June 29, 2008, 09:39:14 AM
Yay! I came up with an idea. You could also use the RHW 6 2 lane exit convert to OWR, plop a HOV lane lot and then you have highspeed high capicity bus lanes.
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: Shadow Assassin on July 02, 2008, 08:17:19 AM
... Or you could just have a lot that plops on the RHW-2 and does the HOV thing. ;)
Title: Re: Bus Lanes Concept
Post by: deion30296 on July 02, 2008, 09:16:54 PM
Nice wink wink.  $%Grinno$%