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MnM's (Mightygoose's new Monorail skin) 31/03/09

Started by mightygoose, March 07, 2008, 03:11:25 AM

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mightygoose

#20
thanks for the encouragement although i was hoping for a better response from the NAM guys (exception tarkus for his invaluable assistance via msn)

ok having dug around in the mod forums for a couple of hours reading lots of posts from 2003 by darkmattey and karybdis....

it seemed that FSH files were the way forward. well up until now everything is going semi smoothly so i downloaded fishman and set about importing the textures as fsh files into a .dat.



this error appeared. now i know fishman is infamously unstable but according to the thread this issue remained unresolved at the time of which DATGEN was released.... this was supposed to rectify the problem and bring everything into happy easiness.... but i got the same error....


ok--- now tarkus tells me the tool can do such things no problem lets see...

but the tool cant create a new .dat hmmm ok DATGEN can....



everything is hunky dorey but no.... it refuses to save an empty dat no matter how many times you click that button.... and as i cant import into datgen either now what....

old reader trick i seem to remember open a .dat delete the contents and save as....



success click blank.dat, click fill the list, click save and name and navigate to the plugins directory(note i named the dat file materials for ease of finding in the reader) and then save.... fantastic.... now backĀ  to the sc4tool...



click the labelled texture creator to open the relative part of the tool.

now make sure you have a texture id range before going any further, i mean it. you dont want your transit model texture turning up as a lot base texture or the side of you finest hk skyscraper... well thats what could happen if you don't stick to your range ok...

im using the last bit of the BLaM range as it was assigned to the FBP - my project... so it is effectively mine.

0xF1E00000,0xF1EFFFFF - this is my range. you save only the start and end with the comma in the middle as a file called range.txt in the system folder of the sc4tool directory in program files.... that way the tool uses your range.



now open your previously created dat file....



click the picture icon with the plus sign next to it.... to bring up this screen,

note your personal id range should be at the bottom of the window,

click next available id

click the open icon and navigat to your first texture....(note all textures must be 128x128 - some resixing in photoshop etc is often required)
click the camera icon

they do not need alpha maps so click ok

repeat till all your textures are added....

then close (it saves automatically)

click the analysis tab to use the texture scanner to ensure they are all there....



and that hopefully is that.... back to reader soon





FROM HERE ON IN IS GUESSWORK--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


right reopened the sc4model file.... found the s3d with same number of anim groups as mentioned earlier....

basically the goal is to leave only that s3d file and the fsh files of the materials in that model.... right



so i thought right "out with the old, in with the new" so i deleted everything apart from the relevant S3D file the XML file and theĀ  DIR file.... those last two need to be editted later....

went over to materials dat.... copied the fsh files...

went to go back to the .sc4model and all hell broke loose....



in future i think i need to add the new textures and reassign them before deleting the old ones... anyway thats enough for today....

edit- okay i was bored....



initially copied files like so but it seems you need to copy the directory file over also...

i got as far as changing the first material instance but as before all hell broke loose when i tried to alter the uvw mapping...
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....

Diggis

Hey, great looking tutorial.  Look forward to seeing how this will come out in game.  &apls

Jonathan

Great tutorial, I would have replied if I hadn't had to go to school along with internet cutouts and a lack of batteries for my mouse.

Btw, sometimes if you delete the fsh files that are or have been used for a S3D model then you must save close the dat reopen it and continue, before you click on anything else. And when that Balckbox message pops up it usually allows you to save your work before it crashes.

mightygoose

thanks warrior, btw is your avatar from the groundhog day episode of stargate??
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....


mightygoose

its my favourite and ive seen about 90% of them...
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....

Haljackey

Hmm... What a very creative concept, mightygoose!

This would act similar to the GLR-in ave right?  That is a great way to save some space.

I wish you the best of luck with the project!
-Haljackey

flame1396

Hmm... this is cool. And you could do a regular monorail to this transition.... Unrealistic yes but it could work. A re-model of the monorail car to have a thing on top it could hang from is necessary but I have an idea for how it'd work BUT my computer is currently lacking in the image department so this will have to be ASCII "art" so basically trash ::)

It would consist of a regular monorail track (on the right in blue) headed into the transition to the hanging track (on the left in red), basically a sort of hand-off that in the real world is probably too dangerous or unreliable (or both) to work. The slashes in the drawing are actually gentle slopes and the space between the tracks wouldn't change for obvious reasons. The yellow is spacers and should be ignored)... As the train traveled along the normal track it would slope down while the thing on top for it to hang from grabs onto the inverted track, once the train is all switched over the doubled track ends, leaving the train at the same elevation as it started on and hanging rather than sitting on the track (or vice versa).

========== ___________
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The most astounding and unique aspect of the human race is our fervent application of our ingenuity to kill each other, thus completely defying the near-universally proven fact that the ultimate goal of a member of a species is to ensure the survival of the species.

Monorail Master

Mightygoose, I'm giving the help you need. Your MOA is the suspended monorail type as found in Wupperrtal, Germany in their 100+year old monorail. Well let me give you a good website for reference about Suspended monorails and other types of monorails. ( link below)

http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/TPindex.html

P.S. I give you an idea. I saw in Japan once a Elevated freeway with a suspended monorail below it BETWEEN A 4-LANE AVENUE!!!
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into
(")_(") your signature to help him gain world domination

mightygoose

In a move that should make you feel UNCOMFORTABLY THREADOMANTIC.

this is back... now it seems that blundering in and guessing what to do next didn't work so i have been talking to buddybud and he suggested an alternative way of making this work. to maintain logical progression this will be reduced to a single tile network for the time being. but before i do anything.... i need to decide how i am going to go about this.

hence....

now buddybud's method of making pieces is instead of making the entire model a transit model, only the rail bed is. that way you can use the reader's built in model generator to create a flat plane. the remainder of the pieces are T21'd props. this allows for greater detail and simplifies the creation process somewhat. but how does this apply to your monorail you ask....



if that is the rail bed plane and then alpha maps are used to make it transparent that should accomplish what is necessary. it also makes it easier to slope conform the pieces.

anyway, within the plan image question marks denote unmade decisions.... any imput as to which route to take with the other bits so far would be appreciated....
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....

choco

i wish i had more technical understanding of these issues, goose.  this is a great idea, and would like to help.   :)

unfortunately, i learn best by reverse engineering things, so i would have to look at bud's mod to see the implementation.  my first suggestion would have been to import via the reader.....but its very laborious.  T21's are much more simple from that respect, but can be a pain getting them aligned. 


buddybud

#31
ok...heres what i was talking about goose and as you requested.




the rail as i explained is just an elevated 16mx16m 3ds big square with a texture of a track which has an appropriate alpha....that part looks good.

the structure as is, obviously is bat props that can be changed into 3ds props or make it part of the network model, thats all up to you of course !. There is a bat beam which conforms to slope and then a bat post and a bat post top that are non slope conforming. This keeps the posts straight but allow the beams to bend with the track.

anyways files are attached below...be aware that this was done using the standard elrail as a base and i simply replaced the straight section. It's not usable in game at all by the way.  Just an idea testbed. only plop the goosestructure.dat at the end of your plugins the rest are just the gmax files, psd template, textures and such. Also note i didn't really pay attention to unique instances....

Hope that helps and you know where to find me if you have any further questions.

Bud ;)



edit...note i was misunderstood in chat....3ds props and models have higher resolution then bat props thus allow finer detail...the benefit with Bat props is the easy of making them....sorry about that!

Jonathan

Looks great :thumbsup:, just I hate the pixelation ;) So if you could make it 3ds, like Bud said, that be great!

One thing I don't understand, what are the trains meant to hold on to? As the blocks the hold the track in the air are the same width so thetrains would get stuck here (in RL)

Also you might want to try putting the the vertical beam and the Aish frame at the top into a separate model, the support model?

Jonathan

buddybud

warrior...the above is nothing but a quick hours work to show  what could be done....i would agree that if done at that scale i would do the whole thing in 3ds or atleast most of it!....thats all up to goose though!

Cheers

mightygoose

#34
yeah its a fantastic approximation, now if I can replicate certain elements...

@warrior, the rails are not directly attached to the blocks, if you look further up you can see that... buddybud was just demonstrating the principle....

Following Buddybud's tutorial [linkie] plus his help on MSN I have completed step 1.1 on the plan





buddybud's rails were only 0.625m wide and normal monorail rails for hangers are larger than this so mine are 1.25m wide, i also sorted out the spar separation to allow for perfect repetition. ergo this texture is complete....



....and here is its alpha map.

and after about 2 hours battle with the reader and the tool with buddybud's indominable patience (he so deserves a karma point as this would have been impossible without him)



She's alive....mwhahahah...



.....And the end pieces i did all by myself...



Now my dilemma is whether to make the other bits and do it one piece at a time or make all the rail shapes then add the props afterward....

im tending toward the Latter but ive got to figure out how to make the curved textures now, righto, that will do for now....


NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....

buddybud

#35
Hey Goose...

I'm really glad to see this work out. Before you go further i would suggest one thing to avoid repetitive tasks. Right now your track looks a bit 2d. Ie there is no depth to it and the color is VERY uniform. I would suggest dirtying up the rails and adding abit of Perspective using darker pixels to simulate edges or ridges. Though a small detail it will help the overall appearance. If you want some tips or examples for photoshop just pm or msn me.

Further more there are really only three more textures you have to make....let me explain.  I'll use my old rail template as an example....below shows the four main track set ups....



Concentrate on these tiles for the mono and get them to all line up....once your done that you can then use these tiles to combine into any of the rush hour existing network pieces...they all share the same CURVES and ANGLES..for example



combining tile 2 with 4 plus a fipped and rotated vs of 4 gives you the tile on the bottom. This will both save you alot of time and also ensure that ALL pieces fit together. But again before doing this i would increase the detail of the rail texture to make sure it's not so 2 dimensional and bright. Also this will help with pathing later on.

Also as far as pathing goes, if you keep each rail in the center of where the existing monorail is, you will only need to adjust the height of the paths rather then adjust each and every position at a later date.

Anyways i hope that helps....

Cheers.

choco


mightygoose

well after all the excitement of figuring out the HD textures i though it prudent to apply them to my monorail mod... the ortho pieces are virtually texture perfect but this is only my first attempt at the diagonals, so much still needs to be done... oh and click for full res...





comments, suggestions, bring em on.
NAM + CAM + RAM + SAM, that's how I roll....

Pat


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