SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Making Models for Transit Networks: Some General Specifications
Last updated 2/22/2008
(Note that this guide may still be a work in progress.)

Intro

Modeling pieces for the transit networks in SC4 is, in many regards, a completely different process than modeling buildings, and has more in common with automata modeling.  The models have to be designed and exported following very specific guidelines, which need to be followed carefully, or else the model will be completely unusable for transit purposes.  So, in order to help those out who are interested in making models for transit networks, I have listed the four most basic requirements below.  They apply to all transit models except bridge pieces.  See jeronij's "How to model a bridge for SC4" (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=930.0) for the correct specifications for bridges.

The Basic Guidelines

1.  The model must consist of a series of segments, fitting within a 16 meter by 16 meter square frame (equivalent to 1 SC4 Tile). 
For models covering more than one tile (puzzle pieces/interchanges), the game will reassemble these segments into the full model through the use of a specific IID scheme and appropriate entries in the IntersectionOrdering RUL (RUL 0x10000000).  Each segment will need to be rendered/exported on its own (without the other pieces present), centered at the "zero point" (x=0, y=0, otherwise the piece will be offset and cannot be pathed properly).  This is perhaps the most important initial guideline to follow, as if it is not adhered to, the model will be unusable and in order to make it usable, you will have to split the model up after the fact, which can be an extremely time-consuming process.

2.  The overall model (with all segments combined) can be no larger than 16 SC4 tiles by 16 SC4 Tiles.
This is a limitation of RUL 0x10000000.  Anything larger will need to be split into multiple pieces.

3.  The model must be rendered/exported in True 3D. 
As you may know, the standard BAT export procedure reduces the model to a series of isometric faces, which are assembled in composite by the game to form the building/prop/etc.  However, the game does not handle transit models in the same manner, and when exported as per the normal BAT process, they will look correct from one angle, but will look incorrect from any others.  There are two methods to get around this:

a) Temporarily replace the BuildingMill.ms script (for gmax, this will be found in your gmax\gamepacks\BAT\scripts folder) with the one attached to this post, which will force the BAT to export in True 3D instead of isometric composites. 
b) Export the model as a .3ds mesh file, which can be directly imported into the Reader, skipping the rendering process altogether.  This is more difficult to do with Gmax (since it cannot export this format), but it is possible from 3DS Max, Milkshape3D or from the free, open-source program Blender (http://www.blender.org/).

4.  The model must have fewer than 500-600 polygons. 
True 3D models are actually higher in poly count upon arriving in game than standard BAT models, as they haven't been reduced to isometric faces, and thus, are more taxing on the game and system resources.  If this limit is exceeded, pieces of the model will disappear when it is placed in game, or, in some cases, the game can crash outright.  Thus, the model needs to be as simple as possible--Planes are the preferred basic objects to use when creating transit models, as they will hide unnecessary faces. 

If there's something extra that you really just have to have on the model, it can be rendered separately through the standard BAT process (remember to switch back to your old BuildingMill.ms file beforehand), turned into a Prop and added to the piece via Type21 (T21) Exemplar. 

Appendix--A Note About Ground-Level Models
Models for ground-level puzzle pieces are actually produced directly in the Reader (with the Vert tab) and not in the BAT, and consist of nothing but a 4-polygon flat plane with textures applied to them.  All 3-dimensional detail for ground-level puzzle pieces is best added through T21 Exemplar.

Awesome!... This is very valuable information for the Community.  Hopefully, this is just the first in a chain of Tutorials from you buddy!

I will have to test this, but if I am right, it should be posible to install a second copy of GMax, in a different folder, and place the modified BuildingMill file in it. Then you can just have seperate icons for each version.

I was wondering... surely a dumb question  ::) ... the transit pieces usually point to a Resource Key Type 0 exemplar ( which is a real 3D model as you very correctly pointed  ;) ), and this is the reason why you get wrong views when you rotate a standard GMAX/MAX model. I have made many tests with other game exemplars types, and many times (but not always) you can change the RKT type without problems. In fact bridge transit pieces point to RKT1 (MAX/GMAX models) and are quite basic transit exemplars.

So, the question is, does it not work with RKT1 ? If it does, you can avoid all the discouraging re-skinning, and directly render complex models with optimized LODs...

And the answer is YES  ;D . I decided to make a test, and I changed the RKT0 from the NAM Puzzle Piece PedMall tile Grass, and I placed an RKT1 model, group BADB57F1 of course, which I released some time ago with my Street side mod. I could have used a bridge piece instead, but the result would have been the same  ;)

You can still see the original model when you want to place the piece ( I guess this is the EffectsDir file  :-\ ) ....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/NAM_RKT1_Works_01.jpg)

But when you place it, the wanted model shows  ()stsfd()

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/NAM_RKT1_Works_02.jpg)

And no problem when rotating  $%Grinno$%

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/images/NAM_RKT1_Works_03.jpg)

Oh, since they are standard BAT  models, they could be done slighltly slope conforming as well  ;D

---

So, this could be an easy and working way to avoid the more tedious (imo) part of the modding process., and could accelerate the making of any transit network piece. This technique would totally remove the need for step 3. And for most part of point 4 as well, and would give much more flexibility to the modellers.

However, to be able to make the models using the BAT/MAX, we should reconsider the ID ranges available. BAT/MAX accepts only changes in the first four ID digits (NNNN0000) and this reduces the amount of available IDs (*)... so there are pros and cons... your turn please  ;D


(*) I know we could automatically change most of the IDs, but we'd have to manually change every material ID in every 3DS model, and this is a quite discouraging task as well  :D :D

Great Tutorial, I hope to see many more ;)
I'm a teenager who doesn't have enough money to buy one of those complex 3d modelling programs, so how can you export 3ds files from gmax, or is that someone elses department?

Quote from: Warrior on February 23, 2008, 10:11:43 AM
Great Tutorial, I hope to see many more ;)
I'm a teenager who doesn't have enough money to buy one of those complex 3d modelling programs, so how can you export 3ds files from gmax, or is that someone elses department?

Not meaning to sound mean, but you might want to reread the tutorial again, because the answer to your question is there.

I know there is option a but in the past I have tried this and I can't get it to come out correctly, which is probably just me.

I haven't tried to do this yet, but when I do, I'll be able to help more. Maybe Tarkus can offer more info than what he already has.

Warrior,
Following the way I mention you can make your models using the GMAX. You need to pay attention to one or two extra steps when it comes to ID assignement, but that is all. Who said you couldnt use GMAX  $%Grinno$% ?¿

---

I mean, you can export your working models directly from the BAT for GMAX

Moved because of inappropriate content , unorthodox implementation and confusion of others!!!
find my tutorial on how i'm building 3ds props and 3ds network models in the link below

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6956.msg220671#msg220671 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6956.msg220671#msg220671) :thumbsup:

Somebody can give me some Tutorial about modding a transit network

Quote from: calvinLedaH2432 on September 19, 2009, 10:53:58 PM
Somebody can give me some Tutorial about modding a transit network

could you specify what exactly you want to do (and specifically what isn't described yet on these forums)

first question in modelling a puzzle piece
one segment should fit in a 16x16 square, does the hight matter?
i'm trying to model a double elevated pp for RHW it will extend to 25m, do i have to make two pieces or can i model a 16x16x25 piece? thanks for answering  my first of many questions in building this piece

The height doesn't matter, but if you're making a Double-Height ElRHW piece, it should be 30m high, and not 25m.

Thanx maarten &apls

I started modelling my first on/off ramp to a double elevated RHW, please some feedback! am I on the right track?
The pic below is of the complete Puzzle piece. please some advise on how I should (or Shouldn't) continue.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F5363%2Foprit3.jpg&hash=a313dbd39d424663d5d3f59a744f957c4d11e81f)

Quote from: mtg on January 04, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
I started modelling my first on/off ramp to a double elevated RHW, please some feedback! am I on the right track?
The pic below is of the complete Puzzle piece. please some advise on how I should (or Shouldn't) continue.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F5363%2Foprit3.jpg&hash=a313dbd39d424663d5d3f59a744f957c4d11e81f)

Well, posting bigger pictures would help. Also try to have a reasonable gradient. The current El-RHW piece climes 15m in 5 grid squares, so try having at least 8 squares for your double hight piece.

Regards,
Korot

Thank you Korot,
the pic is indeed a bit small.
But i did use eight squares to get to 30m  ()what()
But here's a bigger pic
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg24.imageshack.us%2Fimg24%2F5363%2Foprit3.jpg&hash=76b40f318b57325f6547bfe6b3de73a1b63add17)

Well, from that small picture, it was impossible to count the tiles used. Now adding some railing would be nice, plus smoothing out the 'curves': there were the ramp beings/ends.

Regards,
Korot

I rebatted one segment now with railings, but wouldn't this become to high one polygons?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg509.imageshack.us%2Fimg509%2F998%2Fhighwaye.jpg&hash=b636a4e698c5999505e6ee4b5f36598642e09889)

500 is the maximum polygons allowed on one tile.

hmm than this is to much i think :'(

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F4585%2Fpolycg.jpg&hash=c0545ec3539414a1a190a65a54f18b678a86e7c5)

How can i continue now, should i make a simple cilinder with a plane. and put in the curved piece (witch has over 2000 polygons) as a T21?

Use the Modifier "Optimize" to reduce the number of polygons. By the way, you could make the curved piece less smooth, so it has lets say only 200 polygons instead of 2000. You don't see that much detail in-game. Less is more, I say.

thanks it has now only 218 :thumbsup:

ok, first part as it should be. what do you think?




(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg689.imageshack.us%2Fimg689%2F9523%2Fpicd.jpg&hash=9382a5510b15e17322a1a99de9331a060be6d72b)

The Pole looks to thin to keep the weight of the road and traffic, try widening it a bit?

It does look better (thanx), but now i'm closing in on the max polygons allowed. (462)


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F4990%2Fpicya.jpg&hash=d38a2791ba043a657b90bfe8369b684ea6e5781b)

have you done the optimize things again?
Also make the pillar less circular (I think it is either called steps or sides or something)

Talking about optimizing things in 3dsMax? Ok, here you got someone who optimized a building from 5.000.000 poly to 0 poly! %plc/&

So, remember that all the details in transit networks are made with textures... you've got to think low-poly

First: reduce the pillar to 4 or 5 segments (section) and 1 segment (height).
Second: create the section with a spline with 4 points. Example: |_____|
Third: Create the spline that links all the pillars and use the loft modifier to get the ramp.

Then, if you need separate models:

First: save all the model.
Second: merge it in a new scene, convert it to boolean and use a bigger box to cut part you don't use (this will create some new poly, but it's very fast...)
Repeat second step until you have got all the models exported.

Hope this helps.
- GlobexCo

Have you erase the polygons on the under side of the deck ?

Thanks for all the support!
I don't think it needs more batting, the rest of the details I will do as Victor said, with textures, so 462 Polygons are ok. I think it will become a problem with the elevated network in curves, but than again i can remove some polygons when I encounter those problems.

Moderator, if you think this is not the place to discus this, move this if you please. because I think I will have a lot of more questions for the community, and i don't want to take over the tread. 

try getting rid of the curves that join the road to the barriers. instead, make the texture looks as if it curves.

The batting on the ramp has finished!
It think it looks good  ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F995%2Fnotoptimized.jpg&hash=2293c3cb58751b5cab863f26d5a58cb57360b675)


Please some feedback!

thanx victor for the advise on the boolean, tool. I was doing it somehow similar, I first made a curve and a channel spline. I just used the hide option and the loft button again on the objects, so i was cutting out the pieces from the newly generated ramp.

Good ramp! but... what do you want to do (a reference photo maybe?)?

I still suggest to delete the curve part of the section
From |          |
        \______/
to     |           |
        |_______|
I think that the curve will create a lot of problems in the texture creation part...

Ok, the next step will be applying textures I think, but how should i do that? Can i apply all textures in max or should I do some of them in the reader?

QuoteI think that the curve will create a lot of problems in the texture creation part...

It probably will, but it looks good doesn't it!

You apply (or "reskin") the model in the reader.

Thank you blue,
So I should render my rampparts and apply the Transit textures in the reader. ok let's try that!

Ok I exported my first piece from max as a .3ds
Didn't know ho i should export it like this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F5033%2Flikethisk.jpg&hash=88e6023079c34b8e9e274e7eb995717eee3cdbea)
or this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg683.imageshack.us%2Fimg683%2F2934%2Forlikethis.jpg&hash=5f24a43679cea98eeeac99510307fe5763ed056a)

I took the first one. I opened reader and opened the file giving me this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg682.imageshack.us%2Fimg682%2F192%2Freader.jpg&hash=781e530fb77401c4ce0eaf03c7c4ea83b17feeff)

I pushing buttons but nothing is happening, and I can't find a tut. to explain how can I texture this piece.
So once again I'm asking you guys to help me out!

You did press the fill list button, right?

Regards,
Korot

I did now  &ops

Still, I don't have clue what to do (funny thing when i press dat info it tells me I created the part in the year 1970.  ???) 

You need to import it into a dat.

In your case, since its a .3ds file, you need to copy an s3d from another dat, and use the 3DS functions.

ahh, yeah sure!? how do I do That?

(MTG stands for Me Total Goof ball)

I think when i finish this ramp this treat will be a fine tutorial on making puzzle pieces

Ok I think I'm on the right track here, I pushed allot of buttons in reader and this screen is what I got.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg704.imageshack.us%2Fimg704%2F178%2F3dscopy.jpg&hash=94dbcc46517a6fe85d9a78a4ce36ab83a34a7daa)
So I should copy the selected file and paste it in the blank dat, or should I first open my own 3ds file and paste it in there, or option 3 I'm not on the right track I should do things completely different...

Reading BL's instruction, you should copy that .s3d file into the blank.dat file, and then press the button with 3ds functions on it, the one on the top right of the right pane, in case you don't know where to look.

Regards,
Korot

Ok, thank you.
I pushed that button and imported my own 3ds file. What's next?

What did the reader show?

Regards,
Korot

something odd, I think i exported the file not realy correctly  :-[
Wait a sec for the pic imageshack is slow again

Ok here it is, what i can explain is the flurry thing (probarbly something i forgot to delet. but why is it tilted??
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg251.imageshack.us%2Fimg251%2F9592%2Fodd.jpg&hash=3a2eeda022e02faa890bfa3789ffb710d0a755ea)

Before exporting you need to rotate the model 90(EDIT: before I edited I said -90, but corrected it so theres no false info) degress on the X axis. (this is because in S3D files the Y axis is up and down and Z is horizontal)

hmm, ok explains allot. lets try that

wrong again

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F7163%2Fwrongagain.jpg&hash=5b7cefd33b6b84cd5811e1ff7520f2b43288672b)

Does it matter at what position you export a model?

Try rotating it the other way ;)

Sorry &ops

jonathan, I think i f***up not you

succes!  &hlp

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg137.imageshack.us%2Fimg137%2F7692%2F13197091.jpg&hash=644faf60ebbe31cfb9bc4449f029766930f3ffd0)

But now what?? I would like to use standard RHW mis textures, but how do I apply them on my model?  ()what()
I was clicking some buttons and saw the textures (at least I think these are textures) I want to use, but I don't have clue how to get them on my lovely model. some help (again) would be nice (again) :thumbsup: 

I was following Ebina's tutorial on texturing puzzle pieces, is this the right way to go?

You need to find the group that has the road surface (preferably, the road surface should have its own group) and then, using the Anim tab and the groups section, assign that group to texture 0. Then mess with the vertex tab and UV map tabs.

As for ebina's tutorial, I'm not familiar with it, so I'm not sure.

Thanks for the fast reply blue,
You mean the road surface should have it's own group, like it should be a separated mesh in MAX?
that would mean back to the drawing board because i made it one big mesh!
ebina's tut can be found on this board btw

You could take it the quick way: model that surface in MAX, export it by itself. Then import it into its own s3d, then save decoded file... that s3d (right click the file and select that), then add that s3d into the main model.

why don't I see textures? I have been pushing a lot of buttons trying to get the texture to show but no luck ()sad()
Here are some screenpics. am I missing something??
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg682.imageshack.us%2Fimg682%2F4457%2Fquestionpic1uvmap.jpg&hash=4946bf7392648bd3c83d62c0eb4b24532c6e5147)




(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg689.imageshack.us%2Fimg689%2F2519%2Fquestionanim.jpg&hash=0141cecb3cf2eca5caaa2de5acd9c09859868a12)

Only one thing... the texture!

You have to use FiSHman and transform the texture from txt1.? (where ? is the image format and txt1 is the texture name) to txt1.fsh
Now, import the fsh texture into Reader, assign an IID and use that IID in the S3D file.

Thanks for the reply victor
I want to use this texture, from the RHW dat. is that possible or do I get problems with the IID? if so can I chance it and how do I do that? 
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg709.imageshack.us%2Fimg709%2F5287%2Ftexturefsh.jpg&hash=6fda550272bf4a0148411b6affcde4700c449a26)

I see no reason why you can't use that ID, you'd only get TGI problems, when you have multiple textures with the same TGI.

Regards,
Korot

Ah, yes the TGI, you need to get that "I" from a NAM member don't you? or can i generate it my self for testing purposes?
BTW, Thanks for all the help you guys!   :thumbsup: I'm learning something everyday, and maybe next Christmas I get this ramp finished  ;D   

For testing and own personal use, the TGI doesn't really matter. However, the texture you use already has it's own TGI, and there is no need for two identical textures, with different TGI's. So just use this texture, with it's current TGI. As to the TGI of you ramp: You'll have to talk to a NAM member.

Regards,
Korot

Heres what you have to do: Find the FSHs referenced in the Mats tab in the S3D. Then, find those FSHs in RuralHighwayMod.dat. Once you find those, copy and paste them into your dat. Reindex, save, reload file. The model should show the textures. Once you finalize your model, delete the FSHs from your dat. The game is able to reference textures across dats.

Don't have it quit right yet, but i will get there tomorrow! I think? Thanks allot!

I tried it but no success  :'(  when i preform the steps, i can't save  ()what()

Did you click on "Apply" before you save the file?

nope. i'll give it a shot again, and again and again..

Ok, I still don't get it right  :bomb: but maybe you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong,
This is what I did, I modelled a plane put on a UVW map exported it and opened the reader
there (1) I first opened the 3SD file I just modelled, and the RHW dat
From the RHW I took a S3D file that looked like what I'm trying to make and its FSHfile, I copy/pasted (2) them in to my file ( not the blank DAT, i'm not using it ) Then (3) I import my model, (4) rightclick reindex (5) save..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F6653%2Fstepsv.jpg&hash=c3229077fa2cabb42a9a84ae38ea25d092cb0622)

With this result

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F2103%2Foutcome.jpg&hash=9d66c662813ba201470d0c080a90b9d1c751e056)

What am I doing wrong??

have you closed and reopened the dat file?
Edit: have you set the IID to the model in the mats tab?

You'll need to assign the texture in the mats tab. click on the texture that corrosponds with the model (check that in the groups part on the anim tab), rightclick in the grey area, change instance/name, change the instance to the IID of the FSH, apply, save, reload dat.

should I chance it in this number?

Thanks for the fast reply guys! :thumbsup:

Should post a pic when i say "this" ;)



(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F6307%2Fthism.jpg&hash=d99e6356fb7d6ffda5c779e631af94db10ee8a05)

Correct, that would be the IID (Instance ID)

Does this help? :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FReadertut.jpg&hash=8626b2367cbe648226322815badfdc74504c6761)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FReadertut1.jpg&hash=843d0f4ca5ce2e28543d5787be486052d251b918)

 :thumbsup: &hlp thanks


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.imageshack.us%2Fimg15%2F7333%2F77840495.jpg&hash=ecfd7bb851e5ab78c360c0419c3d59a0310383f5)


Another small success! I just think I did somethink wrong with the model?   

Can you take a picture on the Vert tab with the MIS group (group 0 probably) expanded?

yep here it is lots of stuff in there

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.imageshack.us%2Fimg15%2F8540%2Fwowzro.jpg&hash=e493cc41811310d9156cff412fc38e610e7244a6)

Ah, I see what's wrong. Try to change the UV co-ordinates. You may have to do that in 3dsmax, which i'm not sure if it works, or you can also modify it manually, which will take a lot of time.

In configuring the UV Map.The UV coorinate min/max is 0 to 1   :satisfied:
If the min/max is greater than you wrote (2,3,4,5....etc) means the texture became ugly  ()sad()

Tip:
In setting the UV coordinate,be sure it is not mirrored  ()stsfd()

thanks again for the reply, I figured out what was wrong, in MAX I set the UVW to "face", now I chanced it to planar. and with this result  &dance

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F4524%2Ftextureu.jpg&hash=035870e808c32bfaeaf2cbb5cede2558ae4f7e2d)

but, as you can see the texture isn't bend?? when i put in the texture and wireframe, if you look very closely you see why it's not bend..

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F2236%2Fwireandtexture.jpg&hash=75a954c955e95ed52c9872fad20d09043784ffb6)

so it is back to the drawing board.
Should i rotate the model or can i rotate the UVWmap?

Ok rotating the model in max didn't work

success again!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg682.imageshack.us%2Fimg682%2F1025%2Fsucces.jpg&hash=7b93937ebdff8e0ec3ac3f954dd8cbf174f65e11)

in max I set the UVW map to "fit"

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F3876%2Ffitek.jpg&hash=37577802d4491ba1c9740b3dabd7e3867f9cb4a2)

Ok, now that I have this

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F7640%2Fwhatx.jpg&hash=3f7c2645797fb87504e23fdad6d8cfba79e85269)

How can I put in the rest of the  piece? as you can see below there is more to this piece than a road deck.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F4328%2Fwhatnow.jpg&hash=95ec998bf3aa3132c46b898de480c55ccc8ae3e2)

You've got to create another 3ds model, with its texture in the reader, export the s3d of the model and then import it in the original model.
Once you did it you won't be able to change again the texture, so be careful!

sorry but i don't really know what to do?  ()what()

Your model has been splitted in two pieces (with two textures).
You already finished the first piece in the Reader. Now you've got to do the same thing with the second.

Do the same thing with the second part of the model.
Right click on the s3d file in the reader - export info of selected file
Now you've got a new s3d with textures inside
Open the first model
Click "add s3d" and open the file you exported before
Now you've got the complete model, with everything inside

I don't remember exactly... but it should be right (can someone correct me?) - try it anyway

I tried what Victor said, but then reader crashes  :(

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F5452%2Fproblemso.jpg&hash=2440b600b82a0fe94d38a4f2682a68fbdb4f3f26)

oh, yes. I remember that crah window...
It's been a long time  &Thk/( Anyway, I think that the error is in this step:

"Right click on the s3d file in the reader - export info of selected file" -> Right click on the srd file in the reader - save selected file (top of the pop window)

Now you should have a .s3d in your Reader folder. Import it as I said before...

i'll give it a try  :thumbsup:

crashed again :(

it gave me this warning

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F4779%2Fcrashh.jpg&hash=0139e0c9eeb470a6412b9db1bb81d9f6491c5c19)

tried it again, no crashing, but now reader tells me i'm out of memory  ()what()

edit: does reader take this amount of memory usually???

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F9529%2Fwowm.jpg&hash=ac15d8ddef14c07220fda9d580b619f54afe292a)

Even SC4 doesn't take that much memory! That's really odd.

 

QuoteEven SC4 doesn't take that much memory! That's really odd.

that's what i thought!, could it be that the two models aren't in the same position in max when i exported them? (just a thought)

Ok, so that was the right way...
Now, the problem should be only in number of polies.

Can you tell me the number of poly. I used that method to import GLR bases (so 4 poly  :D), so it could be really a memory problem.
Try to reduce again the number of poly (only of one model, or both if you can), then try again to import - it must work  ()testing()

bought objects are 512 in poly... that's to much isn't it.

I think this means back to MAX and eliminate some poly's or making a new ramp  :'(, but than again that's ok! you never can make to much models in MAX i think) thanks again for the support. learning new stuff again and again and again... maybe the title of this treat isn't appropriate any more when i finish this ramp, maybe it should be "making models for transit networks some general trail and error.  ;)
I can't wait to finish this RAMP* and be able to make all pieces I have in my mind!!!


*ramp means disaster in Dutch (sometimes feels like one, but I will and must finish this bastard)

Quote*ramp means disaster in Dutch (sometimes feels like one, but I will and must finish this bastard)

I didn't know that  &mmm

Well, for me, before I start SC4 transit modding, I'm getting pratice on this by making road models for my game GTA: SA. I already built a replacement for the SF Bay bridge, made it like the real-life replacement one. So, at least I'm practacing on 3D models. :)

It's not a polygon problem thanks to a plugin called polygon cruncher i managed to get the whole model down to under 300 polygons. It still gave me the same problems, so I thought, well let's try it with just the kolom ( one cylinder) and the dek top and still it gave me the memory problems.??????  ()what() %confuso

 &hlp

YES!!
Got it

Quoteoh, yes. I remember that crah window...
It's been a long time  Thinking Anyway, I think that the error is in this step:

"Right click on the s3d file in the reader - export info of selected file" -> Right click on the srd file in the reader - save selected file (top of the pop window)

Now you should have a .s3d in your Reader folder. Import it as I said before...

Was almost right! it only should be -save decoded file- and not -save selected file-

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg693.imageshack.us%2Fimg693%2F4148%2Fanothersucces.jpg&hash=7bb9299aa510393940d7a1dd0b3eff271f4d32df)

it still needs allot of work but I think I've got the basics right  ;D

 :thumbsup: Thank you for refreshing my memory!
Now you should have all the bais to start creating all the models...

well not all models... at least i can build all models with one level, or are the two and in this case 3 levels, (sins i'm building a double elevated network), pieces the same procedure?   

Ok I started over in modeling my ramp, unlike the last time I want to make the surface that holds the MIS texture a plane but I have a problem, how do i bend the plane so it matches the rest of the model? I tried bending it wrapping it but with no luck.

If you don't know what i mean, a picture says a thousand words.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg705.imageshack.us%2Fimg705%2F6397%2Fcurve.jpg&hash=e019c1721df9bd1e2e1c1a153e61f7a52478958e)

Add Edit spline modifier, add more (vertical) pieces in it and move each of them. But that's the g-max way, not to sure if it also works that way in 3ds max.

Regards,
Korot

I'm trying that, i made it an editable patch and i'm moving stuff around!?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F5134%2Fstuffho.jpg&hash=c0ac92e51e98744628df14cbda820f676b7debd6)

If i'm on the right track, it's a lot of work!?

Hmm, that doesn't look the way I meant it to be. Perhaps it helps if you press on the vertex button in the list under 'Edit Patch'? That way, you should be able to move the corners individually. There should also (somewhere) be the option to split the whole thing up into multiple section, perhaps in the Plane tab, somewhere below the 'Edit Patch'?

Regards,
Korot

I just rotated one piece of the plane, it's not perfect but I hope it doesn't show that much in game

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg215.imageshack.us%2Fimg215%2F9586%2Flookgood.jpg&hash=01fc864202a7ff10f1478857e8a9fd7a034a219a)

This is how it shows up in the reader, (not that bad isn't it!?) the barriers don't show their textures but I'll tackle that one later.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg704.imageshack.us%2Fimg704%2F232%2Freadershow.jpg&hash=b88e0ab5f9f9305b6475f1c0822188da180027fb)

Isn't the MIS texture 16m wide? And isn't your plane less wide than that? And isn't the texture stretched across the plane to fit it exactly? Thus, the MIS lane is smaller than it should be. Solution: Widen the plane to be 16m wide.

Regards,
Korot

Agree with Korot ... try to edit uvw map or modify texture (export the fsh, edit it and then reimport using a new iid)

Thanks for the reply, that means back to the drawing-board once again

It's been a week since i last posted something here, so some of you might thought, I gave up!?
But no,  $%Grinno$% I'm taking a different approach. well different? (more like looking how the Boss (Tarkus) modelled  the pieces in RHW, and just try to do that as well ;D) I have been modelling the ramp now completely in planes  ;D, took a while to get the hang of it, but I think I'm doing better than before! I even managed to bring every think in to the reader texture it and put the pieces together!  &apls <- that's because I think I have done some good work and who said you can't give your self some applause!? Ok but this is what I've made this attempt to build a nice looking ramp.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F927%2Fprogressn.jpg&hash=bab004f1bb50d1be5a5de9048e82099fd0511877)   

Some questions are still on my list to be answered by this fine community, one is: "why is my plane that holds the MIS texture not completely textured? (i'm using the 5de4b20c texture for that one)
two "should i export the pieces dead center or can I keep them where I modelled them in MAX and move them later when I put the Puzzle-piece together?

I was just looking at the pic some more and when i was putting my fingers on the screen it didn't even show that the MIS texture was missing at the edges

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F8886%2Fprogress1.jpg&hash=5dd35ce80f303176777576ac446afaf52074bd0e)

can I do this or is this considered bad modelling?

5de4b20c ?
Normally the textures should end in either 4 or e. Try change it to e. And make sure the width and length of the plane is 16mx16m. Even if the ramp extends beyond the sides of the ramp

Also the parts of the model such be exactly on 0,0 dead center.

And I have no idea what you mean by your second post, what are the black chunks out of the model did you "photoshop" them in?
Jonathan

Yep i photoshoped them, the plane that holds the dek is 16x16, but the texture doesn't cover the complete plane. but that doesn't matter because when all pieces are together you can't realy see that because the concrete texture fills that (don't know how to explain that better  &ops)

try changing the texture of the MIS to 5de4b20e

Jonathan

I'll try that thanks

Ok what do you ( and everybody else ) think??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg5.imageshack.us%2Fimg5%2F8065%2Fprogressssss.jpg&hash=5bc2dff1cc14dea2c12da5e2a498367d1a8d6d23)

looks better, but the lane looks still too narrow. try it in game by replacing the end piece of MIS and see if it lines up.

Jonathan

Can you give me little tutorial on that?

Right click in the list of file in your dat.
Select insert file from a template.
Choose Exemplar in the box that appears.
Click Yes on the box that appears (if it does)
Now go to TGI editor in the tools menu.
and select the exemplar you just created (it will have a GID of 00000000)
And type in the Group box 6BE08658 and in the Instance box 5DE00100
Click Apply and then close the TGI editor
Now select the exemplar in the list of files in the main reader window.
And it will show a list of properties in the right pane.
Right click in an empty space in the right pane and select Add property.
It brings up a window.
In the first text box (it should contain"!Unknown!") click the drop down arrow and type in the textbox "Exemplar Type" without quotes.
In the Data type field select Uint32 from the drop down list.
Then click the add button to the right of the darker grey box.
A white field appears in the darker grey box, click on this once turning it blue and type in "0x0000000B" (no quotes)
Hit Enter key and click Apply
Right click an empty space again and select add property.
This time in the name field type "Resource Key Type 0" (no quotes)
And the Data Type is again Uint32
Click the Add button 3 times.
In the first white box (value field) type "0x5AD0E817" (no quotes) in the second box type "0xBADB57F1" in the third box type the instance ID of the S3D you made.
hit enter key then click Apply.
Save the dat and make sure it loads after the RHW files (by putting it in a zzzz folder in your plugins directory)

That is it, if you get lost somewhere just say :)

Jonathan

Ok i did every thing with this result

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg519.imageshack.us%2Fimg519%2F3249%2Fquestion.jpg&hash=a9924f032be543d9c571ce5d40766d46471eb955)

It doesn't show &mmm Did I do some thing wrong?? Or did i do such a good job that it blends in perfectly? (Don't think so)

Maybe these pics help.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F3677%2Fthirtq.jpg&hash=0a1e1504c144f9fd423a0c196425be8564b3d4cc)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F8708%2Fsecondq.jpg&hash=346afcdb67df30e0f9f227f7b08803492dd274c0)

one thing i can see...

in the first ireader screenshot, you must change property Resource Key Type 0 from 0x5ad0e817, 0xbadb57f1, 0x00000005 to 0x5ad0e817, 0xbadb57f1, 0x5de4b202.

thanks for the reply, I did that but still no success

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg693.imageshack.us%2Fimg693%2F333%2Fquestiont.jpg&hash=cfea22789b1e4efa59f07a8a4bba806ff0c352f4)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg251.imageshack.us%2Fimg251%2F5489%2F23977948.jpg&hash=c8e0e09fbfcf0a882331cae200e745c6abb7ff5b)

Try reIIDing the model so it end is 0 and then the Resource Type Key so it matches.
Also try this:
Right click the exemplar name property and select edit, then click Add and in the new field type anything (such as TEST) then hit enter key and click Apply. then save and try again.

You mean chancing the Instance of the S3D file?

yes

Still no success i tried what jonathan said, but it still doesn't show up in game. BTW I also don't have a clue where it should show up  &mmm

Can you give another 2 screenshots showing the list of files and IID and the exemplar contents?

Jonathan

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg706.imageshack.us%2Fimg706%2F8246%2Fpic1pf.jpg&hash=f42de5be5fe0419e76ea235997fdc9a99f9a6f9e)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg704.imageshack.us%2Fimg704%2F6797%2Fpic2lp.jpg&hash=29247f6d0ae1f71350b9fe65fb672342b0d6ea81)

Could you post a picture of the folder your dat is in?
(the folder: C:\Documents and Settings\MC Mulder\Mijn documenten\SimCity 4\Plugins\zzzz)

Thanks, and this should be the last screenshot.

Jonathan

sure, but there's not much to see

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg246.imageshack.us%2Fimg246%2F9909%2Fpic3ex.jpg&hash=465debb585efd50bc94e82dfff98e2fc2c2e78b3)

Ok I have no idea why it isn't working, it matches the exact same thing as on my computer and it works.
Try this exemplar that I've attached:
Remove your one (right click it and select remove)
Then after downloading and extracting the zip attached here, right click in the list of files and select Insert & compress files.
Then browse to the file (the one ending with eqz not TGI) you just downloaded and hit Open.
If a window pops up with Yes and No click Yes.
Save the dat and try it in game.

I'll try that tomorrow, thanks! But i have to go now

Still no success, but where should it show up?

Ok, I still can't get it to work  :'( Maybe somebody sees something out of the ordinary in these screen shots and be able to help me out. I also still don't know where the piece should show up in game, is it a stand alone puzzle piece or part of an existing one, or something I didn't think of jet?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F3548%2F96452436.jpg&hash=810dacb72686a6729cf91d52f3c05e19f2cf8837)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg402.imageshack.us%2Fimg402%2F3626%2F53000347.jpg&hash=3cac2bfa5f0cd9ad3b7cb9f33834b0c0f713fe26)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg708.imageshack.us%2Fimg708%2F7925%2F35837280.jpg&hash=0126e1565038346c2b0176a8adcf3413038643e0)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F6432%2F31004722.jpg&hash=18288d8a67f32824232821251aeedbe0aa60ac14)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg695.imageshack.us%2Fimg695%2F6910%2F27284527.jpg&hash=eb53abedb8842f9f914f904f317b72bea9d80e65)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg5.imageshack.us%2Fimg5%2F7748%2F94302634.jpg&hash=215182e5a0f50a6a5504596ead2ad81d2120c6e8)

It should show up at the end of a section of MIS (the stub).
So just plop the MIS starter, and drag MIS at the end of where you dragged it should be you piece. (Only when it's straight though not when it's diagonal)

I can't see anything wrong in that, do you have a folder in your plugins which comes alphabetically fter the one your dat is in?

Maybe if you send the file to me I can see if it works on mine and then we know if it's a problem with the file or not?

It's the last folder in my plug-in folder, there is some stuff following it but that shouldn't matter does it?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg693.imageshack.us%2Fimg693%2F5664%2F48356256.jpg&hash=130c8a83a0ec69be98e9eb1fb80b5b3db12f8412)

I would like to attach the file in a post but, I don't know how to do that??

Mtg, it's better to be safe then sorry. However, it does load last, because the game loads files before folders.

Also, the attach file is underneath the additional options for people with the right to attach files, these are subscribers, members of a team, and the staff. If I'm not mistaking, you're neither. I guess you'll have to email it to Jonathan, or have the NAM team make you a member, or at least associate.

Regards,
Korot

Korot, thanks for the advise, since i'm way not good enough to be a member or even an associate (though I learned allot these day's) I'll PM it to Jonathan. and try to run the game without the stuff in my Plug-in folder.  :thumbsup:

You can just upload it somewhere like mediafire.com and post the link here, or as Korot says just email me the file, which ever is easier for you.

Jonathan

Check your e-mail  ;)

No weird looking stubs, so it must be something I forgot or so


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F710%2F65356144.jpg&hash=0cabb3af382059d021a650acc5795a6d10a3dac5)

Another question, because i'm just pushing the buttons you guys tell me to push at this stage, I don't have a clue what I'm doing any more and when I get stuck ,like I am now, I can't figure out my self what I'm doing wrong. So could somebody tell me what are the  type/group and instance numbers?
What does the exemplar file do exactly, what is a recourse key type? and so on..

The TGI is used to identify an exemplar, s3d file, etc. in a .dat/.SC4Lot/.SC4Desc/.SC4Model file.
An exemplar file contains a lot of properties, what kind of properties depends on what the exemplar file is used for.
The recourse key type, or RKT, is used to refer to a model by an exemplar file.
Any more questions?

Regards,
Korot

I took a look at the files, tried them in game it didn't work. So changed the IID in the exemplar and the S3D and tried again and for some reason it worked in game. Why I should figure out why.

But I can tell you the MIS lane is the correct width and the model is correct/good.

Type Group and Instances (TGIs).
The proper number for these are Type ID(TID), Group ID(GID) and Instance ID(IID)

Type is what tells the reader/game what the file is. For instance all FSH files have a Type ID of 7AB50E44.
If you change the Type to something else (say 00000000) then save, close the dat and reopen it the reader will not recognize the file as FSH.

Group IDs are like subcategories of the Type. So all FSH textures that re used on S3D files for 3D networks (like El-Rail) or just as texture for a 2D network (like Road) must have a Group of 1BE787D. FSHs that are used on S3Ds for BATs have a random GID(I believe the GID is based on what date and time the model is rendering in BATSomeone please correct me if I'm wrong)

Instance ID is to identify a file. There are no set numbers, you choose what IID you want. However if you want to replace an existing file you give the file the same IID (and GID and TID) as the file you want to replace.
For example many of the maxis textures for networks were incorrect, so to fix them we have to get the IID of the texture we want to replace, make a new correct texture, put the new texture in a new dat and give it the same IID as the one we want to replace.
Note: For files that are to be used in the NAM the IID must always begin with 5(this is just to avoid conflicts), unless it is replacing a file made by maxis.

Exemplars are used for many things. The one you have been using is for linking RULs with S3Ds.
So in the RUL files we define that when a road is dragged over Rail we what the game to place a model with the IID 0x12345678 we must then create an exemplar which has the IID 0x12345678 (and the correct Type and GroupID). Inside an exemplar there are properties. The Resource Key Type 0 (RKT0) is a property. This is what links the exemplar to the S3D file. There are different type of Resource Key Types(RTK). 0 is the most common one for network uses. RKT0 has 3 values (or reps as they are called) the first is the TypeID of the S3D file you want to link to. The second is the GroupID and the thrid is the InstanceID.

Mostly the IID of the S3D will be exactly the same as the IID of the exemplar. So in the RULs we defined the piece 0x12345678 to be drawn when Road is dragged over Rail. So we give the Exemplar the IID of 0x12345678. Then because it's just easier to give the S3D the same IID as the exemplar we give the S3D an IID of 0x12345678. Now to link the Exemplar and the S3D we have to add a Resource Key Type property to the exemplar, and set it's first value to 5AD0E817 (this is the TID of all S3D files) then set the second value to 1ABE787D (this is the GID of all S3Ds used for networks) and the 3rd value is the IID of S3D (so in this case 0x12345678)

There are some formats to IIDs.
As I've mentioned all files in the NAM range must begin with 5 (unless theres a reason not to)
All the maxis network textures/S3Ds begin with 0.

Exemplar GIDs:
The GID of the exemplar depends on what network the exemplar/S3D is for.
eg All models in the RHW network (MIS, RHW-4, RHW-2, etc all part of the RHW network). Their exemplar's GID must be 6Be08658. (the GID of the exemplar is also called a NSGID which stands for Network Specific Group ID, this because each network has its own specific GID.)

When the exemplar is for a puzzle piece (the things you can TAB through in game) it's GID must be A8434037.

Texture based networks (like Road, MIS, all the flat networks) don't need exemplars, if you put one in it won't use it and will make the filesize bigger.

Also every single dat file (even files in your plugins that end in .SC4Model , .SC4Desc, etc) which has a compressed file in it (almost all files are compressed in a dat) must have a DIR file, the reader creates and edits this for you automatically so you can just ignore it (basically it stores the TGI of every compressed file and the size of each compressed file when it is uncompressed, the DIR means Directory)

That should be most of what you've been doing. Just ask if you don't understand what I've written (I don't write/explain in the best way)

(ok Korot answered your question much shorter, but It's a long post so I'll post it anyway :) )

Jonathan

This is what I don't understand:

Quote from: JonathanI took a look at the files, tried them in game it didn't work. So changed the IID in the exemplar and the S3D and tried again and for some reason it worked in game. Why I should figure out why.

You didn't explain why it worked when you changed the IID. The obvious reason is that the RUL pointed to a different file, or was the IID changed the one in the RKT?

Regards,
Korot

Thank Korot  :thumbsup:
Anymore questions you ask me!? I have tons of questions! :D But I'm trying to post just one at a time  ;)
But if I'm not mistaking these numbers always should be the same shouldn't they?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg297.imageshack.us%2Fimg297%2F6268%2F21073240.jpg&hash=9a41ae382576c5bc5f9183bed8e62f0df0ee7019)

As they are that's not the problem in my brave attempt.

What i also still don't understand in how does the game know i'm modelling a stub piece?

QuoteYou didn't explain why it worked when you changed the IID

That is because I don't know why it worked.
I changed the IID the RTK linked to (and therefore had to change the S3D IID as well).

You are correct those number should be the same.

In the RUL file (which defines what IIDs get drawn in which circumstances) it says when there is an MIS stub draw the piece (the collective term for a S3D and Exemplar) 5de00100.

Maybe this picture explains (except this is not for the MIS Stub, but it works exactly the same)?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FFileRelation.jpg&hash=a3ebf7456171a0c6f3947e838d5666778804749b)
Jonathan

Quote from: Jonathan on February 08, 2010, 11:18:58 AM
That is because I don't know why it worked.
I changed the IID the RTK linked to (and therefore had to change the S3D IID as well).

What is the S3D IID of the 'standard' MIS stub? Perhaps you changed it to that?

Regards,
Korot

This is the files I have that work (note the textures for the S3D are in another DAT but this has no effect at all), which also shows the relations between the files:
That is the actual RULs for the MIS.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FMISStubFileRelations.jpg&hash=bc2a4f8a3be5f86f89238fa92075a9061c45f756)

Jonathan

Perhaps the IID used by MTG is also used for another NAM piece, causing the override not to function properly? Or perhaps network overriding is the opposite of all other files: What ever loads first, remains loaded?

Regards,
Korot

btw, this is the model in game (I just lowered the the end of the ramp to check the lanes matched up)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2Fendstub.jpg&hash=6e86741ae27f8f81abaa7a72e35283c4578bf694)

No as with everything the file order is the same as everything else. Last remains loaded.
But I think your right, the IID 5EFFFF00 is the same IID as the end stub for RHW-6 (or-8), so that could've been it.
But the test files loaded last so it should have worked.

Jonathan

 :thumbsup:
That looks great!! Thanks all of you for the help, it gives me enough ammo to give it another shot!!
It looks though that I have to re model my ramp a bit so that the road deck fits the rest of the ramp!

this should be right! shouldn't it?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F9025%2F86203760.jpg&hash=a0252b7e76bafee8aaf0285478b4ee70086c6bea)


but it isn't  ()sad()

You did press the save button? That would be the only thing I can think of, other than not having the latest NAM.

Regards,
Korot

Yep latest NAM july 2009, and yes I did save the file.

Yes that is correct:
Ok remove the dat you have created:
And put the one attached in it's place (note the model won't have any textures)


Also make sure you don't save the dat while the game is running/open.

ah guys I think I have a problem!


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F5682%2F16179119.jpg&hash=c85831502038326d8a942a18e8abc50927e4a5ff)

Yep, that's a problem. You did put the file in the zzzz folder, right? I also suggest a re-install of the NAM, just to be sure.

Regards,
Korot

ok....
Stupid question, are you sure that's your plugins folder?

Jonathan

Quoteok....
Stupid question, are you sure that's your plugins folder?

Jonathan

&idea Does it have to be in my plugins folder? I could have thought of that my self!!

Just kidding yes it is in my Pluginsfolder lol

Try zooming in to the closest zoom?

can't get any closer

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg709.imageshack.us%2Fimg709%2F1478%2F22500088.jpg&hash=672a5fc86e11121123187fa3b39a48daf9e5ab8c)

ok put this dat in the same folder as the test dek one. And drag some road. the Straight should turn into STR.

Jonathan

well something works right!  :thumbsup:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F4294%2F45413999.jpg&hash=cb88162c8f4433da63b8424b564b7a9340acf23f)

have you found the answer doctor Jonathan?

ok this is now even weirder.
I guess the picture of the MIS not working was using the dat I attached?


Try removing the Road STR dat.
Then in the test dek dat change the IID of the exemplar to 00004b00 (the straight road IID)
and go in game and drag road again.

No model is showing, BUT there is something odd. as you can see the road is a bit bended! the terrain is completely flat.


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg641.imageshack.us%2Fimg641%2F9600%2F43913078.jpg&hash=49ffbf1464bdc5e1869d59f1ba3c3f7cfcd6df78)

That's probably just a texture glitch, nothing to worry about. I suggest to Warrior to make the .dat wherein the exemplar IID is 0x00004b00, just to see if the problem doesn't lay with your version of the reader.

Regards,
Korot

That glitch you see has happened since maxis released the game. It is because the double yellow line on the road is not exactly in the middle of the texture, it is off by 1 pixel (and it cant be corrected without redoing every road texture)

Just realised you also have to change the GID of the exemplar to the one which works with roads.
change the GID of the exemplar to: 2821ED93
Jonathan

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F1764%2F61061874.jpg&hash=7c69300de06cab474097de81bea62b90c25a89c1)


I changed it to this with the result of "0" again

ok for some odd reason (probably me) I can't attach my model to the end of MIS, well I didn't planned to get it like that any way. What i did want to do is build a ramp! how should I get all my models together as a ramp in Game?

OK some analysing, please correct me if I'm wrong, and if you can fill in the blanks  ;)

TID tells the game what kind of file it is like FSH, S3D, exemplar and so on, so if I'm not mistaking

S3D file TID should always be 5ad0e817
FSH file TID should always be 7ab50e44
DIR file TID should always be e86b1eef
exemplar file TID should always be 6534284a

GID are not realy clear to me yet

S3d file GID should be ??
FSH file GID should always be "random"
Dir file GID should be ??
Exemplar file GID should be ??

IID are the unique number to well every file, i think? so every IID can be a random number as-long as it's unique?

Location is still a big mystery for me, don't know what it does or what it's good for?

In the exemplar file
ParentCohort should all ways be all zeros.
Exemplar type don't know what it does really
Exemplar name will give it a name I think but where when and how I don't have a clue
RKT is to witch S3D file the exemplar file is referring to, so it should have the same TGI's written there.
What RKT 0, 1, 2 and so one do, don't know?

Some thing I also cant find anywhere is how can I put the pieces of my puzzle piece together?

You've got the TIDs correct.

GIDs though:
S3D file GID (For network models) are badb57f1
FSH file GID (for textures that are applied to network models)
DIR file GID: There is only one type of DIR file. But as these are created automatically you just ignore these files (but the GID of these are the same as their TID if you want to know)
Exemplar GID should be: A8434037

You have the IIDs correct, just want to add that they only are unique if you do not want to replace something previously added to the game, example if you wanted to replace the road texture which IID is 00004b00. You would make a FSH which also has an IID of 00004b00.

Generally the IID uniqueness RUL applies within the same file types.
For example you can have an exemplar with the same IID as a S3D and there won't be a problem (however this is not always the case)

If you mean location as the column called location in the reader. Then that is not really needed (only if you want to understand the format of DAT files) Basically all it is the location of the bytes which make up the file inside the dat file.

By network models I mean models that are true 3D, and are not BATs.
The words model and S3D are generally interchangeable.
As are the words FSH and Texture


Exemplar type is just so in the reader you can all the exemplars of a type. It may have an effect in game, so just fill it out anyway.

Exemplar name does not have an effect in game, it used to identify the exemplar easily. If you don't fill this out then it will become difficult later on.

RTKs:
RTK 0 specifies one model for all wealth/rotations/zooms.
RTK 3 specifies a model for each zoom. So it will have 7 reps/values. the first 2 being the the TID and GID of all models, then the 3rd rep/value being the IID of the model which is shown at the furthest out zoom, to the last rep/value which is the IID of the model shown in the closest zoom.

The other RTKs do similar things for wealth and rotations.

To put together the puzzle piece you will need to do RULs, I will attempt to explain this later when I get back in front of my PC.

But if I still haven't explain TGIs clearly just ask :)

Jonathan

TGI's are clear now thank you!  :thumbsup: can't wait until you get back to your PC and tell me all about RUL's

If i'm not mistaking this is right

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg218.imageshack.us%2Fimg218%2F3883%2F75468707.jpg&hash=386d7253d807965201b2c221b3b7c9f34f7fed5a)

Yes that looks correct

QuoteYes that looks correct

&hlp

Now lets get to the fun stuff, RUL's. are there any tutorials on that or can you guys get me informed on that?

You've got this [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2500.0), which will be useful for the override in the drag-able area, though I'm not sure about the path section. Thing is, this does not cover making (multitile) puzzle pieces, nor pathing your pieces. And it doesn't cover starter pieces, or more precisely: the part where they start overriding the network.

Regards,
Korot

Read this document: http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Network_Specs/IntersectionOrdering_RUL
it is about the puzzle pieces RUL file (commonly called RUL0 and it's IID is 10000000, and is located inside the networkAddonMod_Controller.dat)

It should be pretty comprehensive so just make a list of question and I'll do my best to answer. If it turns out that isn't easy to understand at all then I'll write an entire guide to it :)

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan, i'll get to that when i get home tonight (I'm at work now)

hmm looks all very difficult I'll try to get to know what all of this stuff means but

QuoteIt should be pretty comprehensive so just make a list of question and I'll do my best to answer. If it turns out that isn't easy to understand at all then I'll write an entire guide to it Smiley

maybe you can start writing that guide  :)

*Deep breath* Ok...

You puzzle piece must have a number, this is called a HID (stands for Hex ID)

The HID is what helps link the puzzle pieces when you press TAB and Home/end in game. A TAB ring is the groupof puzzle pieces which come under an icon in game which you TAB through, for example the NAM elevated Road puzzle pieces in the NAM that are in the same Icon are a TAB ring.

At the very top of the RUL0 file is a list/table of all the puzzle pieces you access through an icon in the menus in game.

A puzzle piece can be referred to as a RUL. Each rotation of a puzzle piece is actually a seperate RUL, but we refer to them as the same Puzzle piece (and sometimes RUL) to make it easier.

Lets take simple piece, the NAM ped amlls:

Quote
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;PEDESTRIAN BUTTON SECTION
;PEDESTRIAN BUTTON SECTION
;PEDESTRIAN BUTTON SECTION
; 0x6###
;ped Puzzle Pieces Button

;ped mall
RotationRing = 6000, 6001, 6002, 6003 ;ped mall tile 1x1 centre pole
AddTypes = 6070, 6071, 6072, 6073 ;ped mall tile 1x1 open paved
AddTypes = 6080, 6081, 6082, 6083 ;pedxCobbleStone
AddTypes = 6090, 6091, 6092, 6093 ;pedxPavement
AddTypes = 60E0, 60E1, 60E2, 60E3 ;pedxSandstone
AddTypes = 60A0, 60A1, 60A2, 60A3 ;pedxGrass
;footbridge
AddTypes = 60B0, 60B1, 60B2, 60B3 ;ped footbridge start/end section puzzle piece
AddTypes = 60C0, 60C1, 60C2, 60C3 ;ped footbridgexblank straight puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6030, 6031, 6032, 6033 ;ped footbridgexstreet puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6010, 6011, 6012, 6013 ;ped footbridgexroad puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6020, 6021, 6022, 6023 ;ped footbridgexrail puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6040, 6041, 6042, 6043 ;ped footbridgexoneway puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6050, 6051, 6052, 6053 ;ped footbridgexavenue puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6060, 6061, 6062, 6063 ;ped footbridgexgroundhighway puzzle piece
AddTypes = 60D0, 60D1, 60D2, 60D3 ;ped footbridgexgroundlightrail puzzle piece
AddTypes = 6300, 6301, 6302, 6303 ;Ped OnSlope Puzzle Piece
;mountain trails
AddTypes = 6400, 6401, 6402, 6403 ;mountain trail - straight
AddTypes = 6410, 6411, 6412, 6413 ;mountain trail - curved
AddTypes = 6420, 6421, 6422, 6423 ;mountain trail - T intersection
AddTypes = 6430, 6431, 6432, 6433 ;mountain trail - + intersection
;to be moved into highway puzzle piece menu
AddTypes = DC90, DC91, DC92, DC93 ;Ped Mall x Elevated Highway Puzzle Piece

Firstly, everything after the semi colon is a comment and is not used by the game, they are just there to easily identify it in the RUL file.

We put puzzle pieces in groups, just because it's easier for the user if all the puzzle pieces of the same type are in one place (for example it wouldn't be very easy if the Elevated Road puzzle pieces were in the same TAB ring as the rial pieces and monorail ones, would it?)

The pedmall icon in game links to the puzzle piece using an exemplar (a different Exemplar Type to the one used for the model)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2Fexemplaricon.jpg&hash=6f679bc76e455b55782180224635844c7386976a)

So the properties of the exemplar:
SubmenuKey: Networks: Road Menu - Pretty self explanatory, this property means the icon goes in the road menu, the value should be 0x00000000.
Plop Cost - Doesn't have any affect on anything ingame, not sure why it's there tbh.
Item Icon - The IID of the picture Icon that appears in the menu (the icon is in standard PNG foramt not FSH)
Item Order - How close to the top of the menu should icon be? 0x00000000 is closer than 0x00000004 (and it can go beyond 4 and below 0)
Item Button ID - This is what links the exemplar to the RUL.  (I'll explain below)
User Visible Name Key - The TGI of the LTEXT file which contains the title of the icon (when you hover over an icon the title is the bold writing at the top of the speech bubble)
Catalog Monthly Cost(float) - Same as plop cost
Item Description key - the TGI of the LTEXT file which contains the main text which appears in the speech bubble when you hover over the icon.

The Item Button ID:
As I said above this is what links the exemplar, and therefore the icon, to the RUL (the TAB ring)
As you can see the value in the above exemplar is 0x6A476000. this is split up into:
6A47 and 6000
The 6A47 is just something Maxis decided to have there. There's no reason for it, but it must be there.
The 6000 is the HID of the first HID in the RotationRing line (in the code above it is highlighted in red)

So for example the first HID in the RotationRing in the SAM Section/TAB Ring is 6700, therefore the value of the SAM's icon exemplar is going to be:
0x6A476700

Now if puzzle pieces just new what shape they should be and how much they should cost and what network they were based on everyone's lives would be easier but they don't so...

The actual RULs:
The 6000 HID also links to Puzzle piece RUL (which are all further down in the RUL file)
now the 6000 HID (highlighted in red above) only related to the bit I've bolded below:

Quote[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00006000]
;Added by Tropod 06/14/04.
;PedxCentrePole
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x55267100
PreviewEffect = preview_ped_malls_tiles_001

CellLayout =.....
CellLayout =..a..<
CellLayout =..^..

CheckType = a - road: 0x00000000

ConsLayout =.....
ConsLayout =..+..<
ConsLayout =..^..

AutoTileBase=   0x55267100
ReplacementIntersection = 0, 0
PlaceQueryID = 0xB0006005
Costs = 10
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00006001]
CopyFrom = 0x6000
Rotate   = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00006002]
CopyFrom = 0x6000
Rotate   = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00006003]
CopyFrom = 0x6000
Rotate   = 3

The first line is what is linked to the HID:
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00006000]
This line always starts with HighwayIntersectionInfo, even if the puzzle piece has nothing to do with Highway.

The next to lines are comments and are not used by the game, they just say who made the puzzle piece and when and what the puzzle piece is (it's helpful if the name of the puzzle piece is the same as the name after the RotationRing/AddType line). If someone else made the textures/models and your just making the RULs then you put who made the models/textures there as well.

The next line is used to define how the preview is shown (the preview is the semi-transparent model that appears before you click and place the puzzle piece)
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x55267100
It always starts with piece but the first number ('0.0') is the offset of the model on the X-axis, the next 0.0 is the same except the y_axis. The 0 following that is the rotation of the preview model (it can either be a 0,1,2 or 3 (where its the number *90 gives you the degrees it is rotated (so 3 means it is rotated 270)) The next 0 after that is the flip which is 0 or 1, if you want to flip the preview then you type 1 here. However you rarely have to use these numbers and almost always they are all just 0s.
The number following that that looks like an IID is not used by the game, but there must be number there else it won't work (this was used in he Original SC4 (non rushhour) but has been replaced by the next line). We generally make this the IID of the EffDir file (don't worry I'll explain in a bit) to make it easy to find the EffDir.

The next line is the name of the preview effect this links to the EffDir file you have to create (well copy an existing one and edit) The "preview effect" is basically a posh name for the preview model, I said about in the previous line. I'll talk about the EffDir at the end because it's quite boring.


The next lines:

CellLayout =.....
CellLayout =..a..<
CellLayout =..^..

This defines the shape of the puzzle piece, and helps define what network each tile is (if you plop a puzzle piece in game and then hover the query tool over it you will see it will have have a network name in the query tool, this is what help defines that, though it's not just for the query tool it affects what speed the cars can go on the tile based on the traffic simulator and other such things which I don't understand)

basically each character after the equals sign on each line represents a gridsquare/tile in game. A full stop is just a gap/filler and means that tile is not actually part of the puzzle piece (the maxis definition of a full stop in the Cell layout is  'Don't care')

When you go to plop a puzzle piece in game you'll notice the square that is attached to the cursor has a white border around it. Why that tile/square not one of the others?
Because of the ^ and < symbols in the CellLayout. if you draw lines from them vertically and horizontally respectively the grid/tile where they meet is where that white square is. (in the above code they meet in tile/square with the 'a' in it.

Note: there Can be more than one of the same letter in the CellLayout but they will both have the same CheckTypes(this is very useful)
Note2: A is different to a.

The next line is the check type:
CheckType = a - road: 0x00000000

This is simple. The a in the above line corresponds to the a in the CellLayout. The Road means that tile is based on the road network. Then there's the 0x00000000 (which looks like an IID but isn't, its called a RulFlagByte, but we mostly refer to it as the CheckType):

This is split up into four parts (we always ignore the 0x btw)
00/00/00/00
S/E/N/W

The first 2 digits are for South side of the tile/gridsquare, the next 2 are for East, the next 2 are North, and the last 2 are West, so:

00 means there is no connection on that side of the tile/gridsquare
02 means there is a Orthogonal (straight) connection
01 means left at 45 degree angle (diagonal)
03 means right at 45 degree angle (diagonal)
04 means median (for avenue and Highways mostly, the median is the side where the tiles of the Avenue/Highway network touch, in game on the Avneu there are flowers and lights on it)

*INSERT PIC HERE*

There are then other keywords you can put after the RULFlagBytes, like optional but I won't go into that right now.

The next lot of lines:
ConsLayout =.....
ConsLayout =..+..<
ConsLayout =..^..
They must be the same shape as the CellLayout section (I think), I don't really now much about this bit they are meant to define how the terrain is levelled and sloped, but I don't understand which characters do what, you'll have to ask someone like Alex (Tarkus) or Blue.

the next line:
AutoTileBase:
This defines what models are on the puzzle piece...

I'll stop here for the next two days as I'll be away but ask questions about what I've written as I'll have my phone with me, I just won't have everything I need on my PC to write the rest of the tutorial.

Jonathan

WOW!  :thumbsup:
Now that's a great tutorial! thanks allot!! and I think I'm not the only one who's thanking you for this!
I just red it briefly but i'm going to read it a view time more now, I think I get most of it and be able to get to work on it tonight!!

Well I haven't finished it yet, but I just found out Alex (Tarkus) has written a tutorial, so hopefully he'll post that as well, and it will fill in the gaps of mine :)

Ok this is what I've got right now, I think I'm on the right way
My piece should eventually show up in the Ramp ring of the RHW by using 0x00005100,
In the CellLayout I used 0x02000200 because my piece is going from North to south in a straight line.
Is the line "CheckType = a – RHW/Dirtroad: 0x02000200" allowed should I use RHW, dirtroad or doesn't is matter (or should I use something completely different?)






[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005100]
;by MTG, textures by Tarkus, Tutored by Jonathan 02/16/2010.
;RHW double-elevated-ramp
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0, 0x55267100
PreviewEffect =

CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a <
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
CellLayout = a
                 ^
CheckType = a – RHW/Dirtroad: 0x02000200

ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =
ConsLayout =

AutoTileBase =
ReplacementIntersection =
PlaceQueryID =
Costs =

I've also been working on the exemplar some blanks still have to be filled

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg525.imageshack.us%2Fimg525%2F6871%2F49656554.jpg&hash=c6f7cc6bd64a6b2d68e4b73df6a19ffde351ec4f)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg641.imageshack.us%2Fimg641%2F1029%2F50051348.jpg&hash=a5bd300de862e82c956ab47a639ccae69dbcfabf)

On the RULs...

should be dirtroad, as RHW is a NAM coined term.

CellLayout should be (changed in bold)
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a<
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout=^

The . marks are for padding, and Im pretty sure the < mark needs tiles in its column (normally . (blank, ignore) tiles.

conslayout should consist of | marks (means terrain should be altered as if it was an ortho N/S network)

AutoTileBase is the IID table base
ReplacementIntersection should be set to 0,0 or left out (I usually leave it out)
PlaceQueryID is the IID of the LTEXT file that contains the plop description
Costs is the cost in simoleans to build this piece.

Thanks blue  :thumbsup:

So it should be like this



[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005100]
;Added by MTG textures by Tarkus Tutored by Jonathan and Blue Lightning 02/16/2010.
;RHW double-elevated-ramp
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0, 0x55267100
PreviewEffect =

CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a <
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = ^

CheckType = a – Dirtroad: 0x02000200

ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = | <
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = |
ConsLayout = ^

AutoTileBase =
PlaceQueryID =
Costs = 150

QuoteAutoTileBase is the IID table base

This I don't understand jet

QuotePlaceQueryID is the IID of the LTEXT file that contains the plop description

Also this is not really clear jet.

you also need to add full stops to the right side of | in ConsLayout.

AutoTileBase (ATB):

This is what sets the IID of the models for each tile in the puzzle piece. Quite simply the IID you put after 'AutoTileBase = ' is the IID of the top left tile of the puzzle piece.

Then for every tile down you add 10 and for every tile right you add 100, so say your ATB is 0x53405000 (thanks to superhands for the table :)):
[tabular type=1]
[row] [head]Base:[/head] [head][/head] [head][/head] [head][/head] [head][/head] [head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head][head][/head] [/row]
[row] [data]+n[/data] [data]000[/data] [data]100[/data] [data]200[/data] [data]300[/data] [data]400[/data] [data]500[/data] [data]600[/data] [data]700[/data] [data]800[/data] [data]900[/data] [data]A00[/data] [data]B00[/data] [data]C00[/data] [data]D00[/data] [data]E00[/data] [data]F00[/data][/row]
[row] [data]00[/data] [data]0x53405000[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]10[/data] [data]0x53405010[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]20[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]30[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data]0x53405430[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]40[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]50[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]60[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]70[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]80[/data] [data]0x53405080[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]90[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]A0[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]B0[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]C0[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]D0[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]E0[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[row] [data]F0[/data] [data]0x534050F0[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data] [data].[/data]  [/row]
[/tabular]

Because F is highest digit (hexadecimal) which is 16 in Decimal that means there is a 16x16 tile limit on puzzle piece.

You should be able to work out what you model IIDs should be once you have decided an ATB for you puzzle piece. To get one in the RHW range you need to speak to Blue or Tarkus.

I'll carry on later :)

Jonathan

So the ATB (in your example 0x53405000) is the IID of the puzzlepiece? not of the models position on the piece?

The ATB is the IID of the first tile of the puzzle piece.
Each tile in a puzzle piece is in its own model.

I understand the table below, but how do those numbers connect to the models?

remember the IID of the exemplar?
The exemplar IID must be the same as the ATB (the values in the table) (but dont use the example as thats already in use)

For now use 5FFF0000 as the ATB.

Jonathan

that clears things up! thanks  :thumbsup:

Quote[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005100]
;Added by MTG textures by Tarkus Tutored by Jonathan and Blue Lightning 02/16/2010.
;RHW double-elevated-ramp
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0, 0x55267100
PreviewEffect =

CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a<
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = ^.

CheckType = a – Dirtroad: 0x02000200

ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |<
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = ^.

AutoTileBase = 0x5FFF0000
PlaceQueryID =
Costs = 150

Right, so that what you should have so far.

The PlaceQueryID:
This links to an LTEXT file, which usually has the same IID as the ATB

The LTEXT it links to contains the text that appears in the speech bubble that appears when you are hovering with the puzzle piece (the text the appears over the preview of the puzzle piece)
Just find an existing LTEXT file in NAM_Locale_English.dat and then copy one of the files with a GID of 2A592FD1 and ReIID it to the same as the ATB.



Now Rotations:

Puzzle pieces don't automatically do the rotations this is because in some instances the user wants to make the puzzle pieces different for each rotation.

But thankfully you dont have to manually create the rotations.

Quote[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00015100]
CopyFrom = 0x5100
Rotate   = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00025100]
CopyFrom = 0x5100
Rotate   = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00035100]
CopyFrom = 0x5100
Rotate   = 3

The above code is what you need to add (this is usally called the rotation clones).
The first line is exactly the same as the first line of the original puzzle piece, this makes each rotation clone technically its own puzzle piece (but when someone says puzzle piece they mean both the original and the rotation clones)

Quote[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00015100]

Note how the HID in the line is 5 digits long, this is a new discovery made by Daeley and means the maximum number of puzzle pieces is vastly increased. Before the discovery was made the line would have been:

Quote[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005101]

A lot of puzzle pieces don't use this system which is called 5 digit HIDs or 5-HID.

The next line:

QuoteCopyFrom = 0x5100

This copies the RULs from the original piece, so if the next line wasn't put in then the 15100 piece would identical to to the 5100 piece. NOTE: You can only copy from puzzle pieces that are above the puzzle piece which contains the CopyFrom line.

The next line rotates the piece by 90 degrees (1 * 90)

QuoteRotate   = 1

The next lines are the same except they do the other rotations.


In some instances you will need to flip the puzzle piece, this can be done using a Transpose line. But I think for you ramp when you have to create the flip of it you will need to do it manually as the paths will be going in the opposite direction.

I'll get onto PreviewEffect soemtime as well. But I'll answer question you have about this post now :)

Jonathan

Thanks again! I'm now working on something I should have don already,  &ops creating every piece of the puzzle piece.  I see that you chanced something

QuoteCosts = 150[/tt]

why did you add [/tt] ?

The EffectDir is actually quite simple, but I've found it hard to explain so I just made a simple generator which will do it for you.

The EffectDir basically links the Puzzle piece RUL with the model of the preview. It does a similar job as the exemplar that connect the ATB to the model.

You need to create a S3D with the entire ramp in it. The IID of this S3D is usually the ATB + 5, so for you it would be 5FFF0005. Then using the tool I attached here, type in the first IID textbox the IID of the complete model (5FFF0005). Then in the next box called name type in a name of the preview (at the moment it must 27 characters long, no less or no more), generally preview names start with preview_

I'd suggest "preview_doubleheightMIS_000"(no quotes). or something like that

Then in the next box, IID of EffDir type in the same IID as the first IID box. They can be different which is why they are separate boxes, but it makes it easier if they are the same.

When the EffDir is inserted into the dat it will be given this IID.

Hit generate button and then select somewhere to save it.

Now in the reader in your dat right click in the list of file and select Insert & compress file.
Browse to the file you just generated above. Click Ok and if another box pops up click Yes.


Then in your RUL code where it says PreviewEffect = type the name of the preview which you put into the generator

And at the end of the Piece line, change the IID that's there to the IID of EffDir. (this doesn't affect anything in game but makes it easier to find things.)

That should be it.

EDIT: The [/tt] is a mistake it's forum code to make it line up properly for the ConsLayout and CellLayout, I was just about to fix it after posting this.

Jonathan

This is what I have right now

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg22.imageshack.us%2Fimg22%2F9899%2F58986151.jpg&hash=16bcb4d29ed7335e686d8860fe7493cd7dd70eff)

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005100]
;Added by MTG textures by Tarkus Tutored by Jonathan and Blue Lightning 02/16/2010.
;RHW double-elevated-ramp
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0, 0x55267100
PreviewEffect =

CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a <
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = a.
CellLayout = ^
CheckType = a - Dirtroad: 0x02000200

ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = | <
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = |.
ConsLayout = ^

AutoTileBase = 0x5FFF0000
PlaceQueryID =
Costs = 150

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00015100]
CopyFrom = 0x5100
Rotate   = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00025100]
CopyFrom = 0x5100
Rotate   = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00035100]
CopyFrom = 0x5100
Rotate   = 3




Any comments are very welcome!

But how do I get this RUL in the reader? (wrote it in MSWord)

You need to open up RUL0 in the Reader. Right click the file, hit Save Decoded File. Save it as a txt file. Once that's done, open it in notepad (or whatever raw text editor (NOT a rich text)). Find a nice spot for the RUL (in your case, below the experimental section at the end) and paste it from word. Also don't forget to include your AddTypes line under the correct RotationRing.

I'm trying to use the generator but my pc gives me this screen

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg715.imageshack.us%2Fimg715%2F1497%2F55869790.jpg&hash=3562612ff8c29eabd8470e6801990b7e9dff7aa8)

Little translation, it says that I have to install .Net 4.0.21006? I was looking for it on the net but without succes.. &mmm

Sorry I'll just correct that.

EDIT: This should be better?

Thanks it works now!

QuoteYou need to open up RUL0 in the Reader. Right click the file, hit Save Decoded File. Save it as a txt file.

Blue how do i save my decoded file as a text file?

You are not saving any of your files as a text file.
You need to save the RUL file (the IID is 10000000, in NAM_Controller.dat).

To do this open the NAM_Controller.dat, right click the RUL file with IID 10000000 and click Save Decoded File.
Then go to the Network Addon Mod folder in your Plugins and there should be a file called file_dec00000000.rul This is the saved RUL file which you put the RUL code you wrote at the very bottom (In the experiment/testing section)

Jonathan

Well I forgot to mention that its only if you have manual save on :'(

But yeah, Jon's method works pretty much similarly. Though the decoded .rul file is technically the same as a .txt file (both are raw text formats) Then just add in your RUL, like Jon said.

Once you want to reinsert the RUL, open the controller dat, remove the current RUL0 from the dat (right click on file > remove file), then right click > insert and compress file...
Select the file, yes to "append to end?", and viola.

QuoteWell I forgot to mention that its only if you have manual save on

There's another way to do it?

This is one of things I dislike about the reader, you choose where to put exported files each time you export.

Jonathan

Like this??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg696.imageshack.us%2Fimg696%2F8568%2F50706766.jpg&hash=8fa8559a118c4d158ceb90bb4bd26257520e5920)

QuoteAlso don't forget to include your AddTypes line under the correct RotationRing.

What should I add where?

Yes, You need to add the previewEffect name though.

Right now I'd add your puzzle piece to the end of the pedmalls section, why all the AddTypes in a RotationRing must have the same number of Rotations (each line must be the same length (excluding the comment))
So Right at the top of the RUL file there are the RotationRings. You are looking for the pedmall section. To find this without scrolling through it just Find the text "PEDESTRIAN BUTTON SECTION" (without quotes).

You will see below that there is a line which starts with RotationRing and then below that line are many other lines which start with AddTypes. Copy the last AddTypes line and Paste it just below the last AddTypes.
Change the first HID to 5100, the second to 15100 and so on So the HIDs match your puzzle piece.

Post a screenshot of what end up with here so we can see if it's right :)

Also you should open find (Ctrl+F) and type in 00005100 (the HID of your puzzle piece) and see if finds any other puzzle pieces if it does you need to change the HID to something else.

I spotted a few more errors:

- There shouldn't be a space between "a" and "<". The same goes for "|" and "<"
- Also, the bottom line of both the CellLayout as ConsLayout should have the same width as the lines above. "CellLayout = ^" should be "CellLayout = ^.", and the same goes for ConsLayout.
- Your model misses a PlaceQueryID. Fill in something, like the IID of your Puzzle Piece.

Best,
Maarten

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F3985%2F57296601.jpg&hash=c53a5986abef0572b653bd03185457c3a3a91cf9)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg25.imageshack.us%2Fimg25%2F684%2F40832585.jpg&hash=802485c4d7909c65a523c08ad239efe41c7ea3bd)

This means that you should change the H3ID of you Puzzle Piece, because 5100 is already used by the RHW Exit Ramp Style A. Try 5480 instead.

QuoteI spotted a few more errors:

- There shouldn't be a space between "a" and "<". The same goes for "|" and "<"
- Also, the bottom line of both the CellLayout as ConsLayout should have the same width as the lines above. "CellLayout = ^" should be "CellLayout = ^.", and the same goes for ConsLayout.
- Your model misses a PlaceQueryID. Fill in something, like the IID of your Puzzle Piece.

thanks i'll fix that!

QuoteThis means that you should change the H3ID of you Puzzle Piece, because 5100 is already used by the RHW Exit Ramp Style A. Try 5480 instead.

Yes I already thought so, I'll try 5480.

I think I have most of it right now!?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg13.imageshack.us%2Fimg13%2F4894%2F38040604.jpg&hash=ebde49231845d16c498143ba268e5da2c03b5018)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg521.imageshack.us%2Fimg521%2F8009%2F57029791.jpg&hash=445da400fa1736de90bfb1f5eb5aac554848b5d8)

Not quite. The numbers at AddTypes refer to the corresponding H3ID's of the puzzle pieces. So they shouldn't be "5480, 5481, 5482, 5483", but "5480, 15480, 25480, 35480". I believe the rest should be O.K.

Yes that seems correct. Except I didn't notice what Maarten did :)

btw, All AddTypes lines that follow a rotationRing are part of that RotationRing, and the game completely ignore comments. So when this is in the RUL:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2F57029791.jpg&hash=f23629ffca423af018cbebe2d918d98d24d186e6)

The Game sees this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2Fnocomments.jpg&hash=9ff9558c4d7020b8a13f62399277e8f1cd5308c7)

so the last AddTypes of the ped malls button is the one which HID is DC90.

So when I said put your puzzle piece at the end of the pedmalls button, I meant put it after the line which starts with AddTypes = DC90, however it doesn't matter really so just leave it as it is.

---

Now you need to put the RUL file back into the controller:
So save the file_dec00000000 and then:

Quote from: Blue Lightning on February 23, 2010, 01:56:32 PM
Once you want to reinsert the RUL, open the controller dat, remove the current RUL0 from the dat (right click on file > remove file), then right click > insert and compress file...
Select the file, yes to "append to end?", and viola.

Then save the NAM Controller dat and open in game and go to the pedmalls button, and press TAB (you should have to press TAB 6 times) until you get to your puzzle piece, or until you get to a red cursor (in which case something is wrong with the RULs)

Jonathan

QuoteNot quite. The numbers at AddTypes refer to the corresponding H3ID's of the puzzle pieces. So they shouldn't be "5480, 5481, 5482, 5483", but "5480, 15480, 25480, 35480". I believe the rest should be O.K.

Thanks, I thought why are my AddTypes 5 digits and the rest 4, well I shouldn't think myself

Ok I'll start the game, (keeping my fingers crossed)

Quoteyou get to a red cursor

:'( I've got a red cursor  &mmm

Well I don't of anyone who hasn't had the red cursor on their first piece. It would be abnormal if it wasn't a red cursor :)

I think I know what your problem is, and I should have caught it earlier:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2F38040604.jpg&hash=04372fecf5d007f8ddb12fb3d5b53ac549deebbd)

You have not changed the HID highlighted in red.

Try changing that to the 5480 it should be.

Jonathan

Ok I've no more red cursor, instead I've got a CTD when i get to the piece???

Ok, well I just got your email, you have not updated the IID in the RKT in the Exemplars.

In your dat, look in the Exemplars and look at the RKT you should see that the IID (the 3rd value) is incorrect.

hmm I really thought I already changed that?!

changed it but still CTD

You have a malformed Piece line. Should be 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x55... (not 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0, 0x55...) which would be why its a CTD upon selection.

Thanks blue, not more CTD, but now I've got this. still no ramp..

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg109.imageshack.us%2Fimg109%2F5755%2F53230769.jpg&hash=c3826e0be78bce75822e837f08361768700c766c)

Plop it down, it should appear. You hadn't made a preview model yet I assume?

When I plop it doesn't show, but it seems that there is something ploped, It does the terraforming and my cursor tells me there's something there. But It's invisible  %confuso spooky!?

Run the query tool on each tile, if it ghosts, then you need to flip all the triangles (fill you in if that is the case later). If not, check your exemplars; the IID of the exemplar, the RKT, and the model IID.

I think its more likely that somewhere the IIDs aren't matching up, because the Puzzle piece description is not there either.

But I looked into the latest dat you sent me and it is correct.

The only thing I can think of is if for some reason you don't have the dat in your plugins folders still.

Ok this means it's there or not?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg693.imageshack.us%2Fimg693%2F8223%2F41381400.jpg&hash=17a0ac9590f41581802baa9eea32ceac8209adc1)

Well, there goes the ghost issue. If all the IIDs match up, the only thing I can see that might be an issue is the GID of the model.

Transit model GID is 0xBADB57F1.
Exemplar GID is 0xA8434037.

QuoteWell, there goes the ghost issue. If all the IIDs match up, the only thing I can see that might be an issue is the GID of the model.

Transit model GID is 0xBADB57F1.
Exemplar GID is 0xA8434037.

I think I've got those right!?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg16.imageshack.us%2Fimg16%2F9316%2F75367406.jpg&hash=6a5f5cfb84436933ca3800048d6f85d833a3d8e2)

Have you edited the dat in anything but the reader?
How did you create it?

I've not seen a dat like it before that can still be read by the reader.

Basically the first four bytes of a plugin must be DBPF for some reason your's start with MM? If it doesn't start with DBPF then the game will ignore it. The reader does not do this.

In fact the entire header of the file is wrong, I'm surprised the reader opened and saved it.
Did the reader crash while you had it open or did you save it while the game was running?

To fix this just make a new dat in the reader copy all your files from the old one into the new one and then save the new one over the old one.

QuoteHave you edited the dat in anything but the reader?

nope

QuoteDid the reader crash while you had it open or did you save it while the game was running?

also nope

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg175.imageshack.us%2Fimg175%2F1390%2F23657859.jpg&hash=958b4c3787a3d3147e487fc4bd3bf7511f8a1cd3)

Succes!! but when i plop it it CTDs again  &mmm

Hmm, my only idea now is that missing paths are to blame... try inserting dummy path files (copy one from another puzzle piece, change its IID to the ATB, then clone it and increment (so you have the same path file for all IIDs)

EDIT: or a bad DBPF. My last idea are the model files themselves. I've had issues where the model is corrupt.

EDIT2: I've taken a look at your model files... they really need cleaning up. There are groups that reference vertex, index, and mat blocks that do not exist, a lot of groups, and a lot of mats. This could cause some trouble.

EDIT3: Also, maybe adding a name to the exemplar may help. Currently they're blank.

Quote from: Blue Lightning on February 27, 2010, 02:34:12 PM
Hmm, my only idea now is that missing paths are to blame... try inserting dummy path files (copy one from another puzzle piece, change its IID to the ATB, then clone it and increment (so you have the same path file for all IIDs)

EDIT: or a bad DBPF. My last idea are the model files themselves. I've had issues where the model is corrupt.

I can confirm it's the models.  Jonathan passed the file along to me, and I've had a chance to test it.  The RUL entry is perfectly valid, it plops without the models with no issue.  It's very rare that paths will cause a CTD (usually, the symptom of missing paths is a severe slowdown in placement).  I'm going to try pasting into a new .dat just to make sure it's not a DBPF issue, but my guess is it's something wrong with the vertexes in the actual models themselves.

-Alex

Edit: Affirmative.  Pasting into a new .dat had no effect.  There's some faulty geometry in the models that's causing the CTD.

QuoteI'm going to try pasting into a new .dat just to make sure it's not a DBPF issue,

I had already done that as the DBPF was an issue.

Also I tried adding names to the exemplar it still caused a CTD.

As Alex and Blue Lightening both say its models, you best bet is to import the 3DS files into a new S3D, probably take one of the GLR S3Ds or Pedmall one as they are the simplest.

Jonathan

I think the way 3DS MAX exports the models is whats causing the messy model issue. Deleting the excess groups that reference non-existing stuff would work, but its a big mess.

One way I compile models is to use GMAX, the tru3d buildingmill script, and exporting each part of each section one by one then assembling them in Reader. Much cleaner in terms of all the parts.

I've only ever had a problem with importing max models into monorail S3Ds which were left in a mess bymaxis, so I assumed that it was the S3Ds that would be causeing the trouble.

first of all thank you Alex for joining!

QuoteDeleting the excess groups that reference non-existing stuff would work, but its a big mess.

Can I do this with my existing models in the reader or should I import them again like Jonathan said?

Maarten

QuoteThere's some faulty geometry in the models

You mean that the models are bad in the first place?

Quote from: mtg on February 28, 2010, 02:18:10 AM
You mean that the models are bad in the first place?

Personally I don't think so as the Previeweffect model is working perfectly.

How can I get all those groups to disappear, 26 are a bit much when I'm only using 3.. I have tried pushing buttons in the reader but without success..

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F6109%2F75797017.jpg&hash=53177c0a84402932db11bdd836ae0d946a0ccfd1)

You delete them in the ANIM section, thankfully your S3Ds arent too messed up, as its only the ANIm section that is, if the other section were messed up as well it would be much harder.

1) In the ANIM section expand all the rows, clicking the + signs in the name column, then to delete a row (and it's subrow) right click the blue cell in the Name column and select Del group and select Yes.

2) You must only delete the rows you are not using,

3) In each model go through the Prim, Indx and Vert Tabs, see what the number of the last row is (all tabs should have the same number of rows)(if there are 4 rows then the last number will be 3 and you will have to remember 3)

4) Now only delete all the ones where the numbers in either the Vertex block, index block or prim block columns is greater than the number from step 3.

That should remove quite a few rows.

5) Also you need to go the Mats tab and see what the last number in the group column is  (this will not necessarily be the same as the number from step 3.

6)In the ANIM tab Delete all the rows where the number in the Mats column is higher than the number from step 5.

When you've finished on a S3D remember to click Apply.

The above isn't going to guarantee that the models work, so you'll probably be better reimporting them.
Jonathan

Thanks!
Well, lets go and work on that!  :thumbsup:

Actually just thought of something, when you exported from 3DS Max did you use Export or Export Selected?

Try selecting the parts of your model in 3ds max and then using Export Selected

QuoteTry selecting the parts of your model in 3ds max and then using Export Selected

Did that already. :)

Quote1) In the ANIM section expand all the rows, clicking the + signs in the name column, then to delete a row (and it's subrow) right click the blue cell in the Name column and select Del group and select Yes.

2) You must only delete the rows you are not using,

Maybe a stupid question but are the rows with zero's the one I'm not using and the ones with stuff in them the ones I am using??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.imageshack.us%2Fimg15%2F6717%2F24635617.jpg&hash=829719bd79611e242d6eee27fffdcc9218d7ec65)

All the rows with stupidly high numbers you are not using.

In that particular S3D you've shown in your picture the highest number you should have in either the vertex index or prim columns should be 3.

It is 3 because if you go to either the Prim Index or Vert Tab you will see 4 rows (and it works with 0 as the first number)

Jonathan

QuoteThe above isn't going to guarantee that the models work, so you'll probably be better reimporting them.

I followed your advise and now look!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg708.imageshack.us%2Fimg708%2F227%2F72999080.jpg&hash=29c06d5afa94176915550111007e7a53c651d58f)

It isn't perfect jet, but I'm getting there  ;D

Great! Congratulations on your first (I believe) puzzle piece! &apls

Congratulations!  I'm really glad to see all the effort you've put in has paid off--the piece looks great. :thumbsup:

-Alex

You mean that worked ? ? ?

Tbh, I'm kind of surprised, S3D models aren't the nicest thing to fix, usually they are still broken after fixing them :)

If you can do that piece then you'll be able to do any other piece  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: &apls &apls

Now you just need to do the paths which are pretty simple, but I don't have time at the moment to help, but if either Alex or Blue Lightening have the time then feel free, or if you just want to try it for yourself.

a few points I'll add:

• The MIS paths are dead in the center of the tile.
• You can get the height you'll need for the paths by getting the height of the vertices in 3ds max. The height on the first point should be 0 and the last should be 30.
• Each tile has it's own path file, the IID of the path file should be the same as the S3D/exemplar is corresponds to.
• This  (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Network_Specs/Paths)wiki page may help. And use Daeley's Path Creator on the LEX  (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=546)to create the paths.
• Also take note of which side the yellow line is, and use the drawpaths cheat from the Extra Cheats.dll to test them out.

But well done again on getting your first puzzle piece done !!!
Also well done on your NAM Assoc, though I think that will change quite soon.
Jonathan

Quotethe piece looks great.

Thanks, but I think it looks a bit rough still. I should work some more on the models. I think the barriers and the columns don't look as they should look. And I didn't put an UWVmap on the concrete deck. But I'm already happy to get it in the game like this  ;D  

QuoteYou mean that worked ? ? ?

QuoteI'm kind of surprised, S3D models aren't the nicest thing to fix

I didn't fix them, I took your advise on reimport them all.  :thumbsup:

QuoteAlso well done on your NAM Assoc

thanks!

QuoteGreat! Congratulations on your first (I believe) puzzle piece!

yep it's my first, thanks!

I'll copy in a bit about pathing that I wrote up for David (dedgren) when I was helping him figure out puzzle pieces awhile back.  Most of it is relevant here:

As far as paths go, the most recent pathing specs Maxis used, "1.2", is what Daeley's pathing program outputs by default.

Quote
Here's what the numbers stand for at the top:
SC4PATHS
1.2 <-Pathing spec version
2 <-Number of paths in the file
0 <-Number of StopPaths (used at intersections--another story for another day)
1 <-0 for ground-level (or flat) paths, 1 for 3-dimensional

Here's what one path stanza looks like:
-- car_1_3_a <-transit type_entry_exit_path#
1 <-transit type (1=car, 2=pedestrian, 3=rail, 4=subway, 6=lightrail, 7=monorail
1 <-path#.  This is the 1st path in the path file which is traveling from 1 to 3
1 <-Entry point.  0=West, 1=North, 2=East, 3=South
3 <-Exit point
0 <-UDI Key.  Rarely used except for some Lightrail and Monorail pieces
3 <-Number of coordinate sets in path stanza
-2.5,8,0 <-x,y,z coordinates.  Limited to +/-8 on x,y (except some Maxis items), unlimited on z (height)
-2.25,0,0
-1.75,-8,0

One note about the x,y,z coordinates--for the x coordinates, +8 corresponds with the East edge (2), -8 corresponds with the West edge (0), and for the y coordinates, +8 corresponds with the North edge (1), and -8 corresponds with the South edge (3).

As far as Daeley's PathCreator, there's two executables included in the directory.  One is called "PathCreator", which just covers a single tile, and the other "MultiPathCreator", opens up a grid, which allows you to see how all of your paths line up as a whole, which I use 99.9% of the time.  You can adjust the grid on MultiPathCreator by going into "Options".  I'll warn you, though, that the Rows and Columns are backwards, so if you want to add a new row, you'll actually want to add a new column, or vice-versa.

Basically, at that point, you'll just need to click on the square in the grid that you want to start with, and it'll open up a pathing dialog.  First things first, go under "Path Options", and pick the "Select Texture" option, which will load the texture into the square on the right side.  After that, go back into "Path Options" and pick "Edit Path", and from the little slide-out menu that appears, "path0"  First of all, you'll want to change "path0" over to something like "rail_0_2" for a rail path going from west to east.  Then you'll need to change the "type" to "train", the entry to "0", exit to "2", and since this is the first path you have in the file going from 0 to 2, just leave the path number at 1.  (if you had more going 0-to-2, you'd need to change it to 2 for the next one).

At that point, you can simply click points on the texture square, and the coordinates will appear on the left side.  You can manually adjust the numbers after clicking the coordinates into place, which you'll almost always need to do, since it's impossible to get directly to +/-8 at the edges--it usually cuts off at 7.92.

If you need to remove a coordinate, you can just click on the point you want to remove and it will go away.

When you are ready to add the next path, go to "Path Options"->"Add Path".  You can switch back to another path by going to "Select Active" and selecting the one you want to edit.

Unfortunately, PathCreator does not automatically detect any errors, so you won't know if your paths are working until you get them in-game.  The DrawPaths cheat is immensely helpful, and there are certain indications as to what your errors are, too:

Flashing Red Path: The Entry and/or Exit Point is incorrect.
No Paths Appear: There are two paths traveling from the Same Entry/Exit combo listed with the same Path Number.
Some Paths Appear, But Some Paths Are Missing: The Number of Paths Listed is too low.

To answer your question regarding the Merge/Diverge of two paths at a switch, both of the paths will need to start or end at the same edge, since all paths (except in special cases) need to start or end at an edge.  For instance, with "90_curve_switch_singlestraightsingleoff-g_1-1", here's the sample path I created:

SC4PATHS
1.2
2
0
1
-- rail_1_3_a
4
1
1
3
0
2
0,8,0
0,-8,0
-- rail_1_3_b
1
2
1
3
0
4
0,8,0
0,0.88,0
0.5,-3.2,0
1.5,-8,0

Both paths start at 0,8,0, and are going from the same entry/exit points (1 and 3), but they diverge going across the tile--the first path goes straight down to 0,-8,0, where as the other path starts to curve off.  Eventually, as you go down the piece, the Y will go off the edge of that column of tiles, such that the divergent track will eventually end up going off to the East (2) instead of continuing toward the South (3), once the X Coordinate reaches 8 on it.  Since you're doing two-way pathing on the STR, just copy the paths backwards as a set of train_3_1 paths:

-- rail_3_1_a
4
1
3
1
0
2
0,-8,0
0,8,0
-- rail_3_1_b
1
2
3
1
0
4
1.5,-8,0
0.5,-3.2,0
0,0.88,0
0,8,0

Hope that was at least somewhat comprehensible and gave you enough information. Wink

-Alex

There are a few differences here in your situation.  The PathCreator program was updated, so the "7.92" issue I mentioned doesn't really happen anymore.  The other thing is that you're pathing a 3D model.  One method that can help in doing that is by simply checking the coordinates of a few points on the roadway part of your model.  Since this is an MIS ramp, the x coordinates should always be 0 as well, which should make things easy.

I'd also take a look at Blue Lightning's tutorial (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7219.0), which is another good source.

Hope that helps!

-Alex

Thanks Alex for the tutorial!
But before I start on the Paths, I wanna clean up my models.
How do I get the texture of the barriers to be like this, I know I should do Something in MAX with my UVWmap. But what?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg519.imageshack.us%2Fi%2F11422221.jpg%2F&hash=e4b7eaff12ec5f49a6dd3a2c6925a9f45cafb213)

They now look like this..

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F2871%2F80467506.jpg&hash=e0ddcad57c09348f6be11d1e35f210f1cbd0d2d7)

I know I should move them to the edge of the concrete, and that they shouldn't be two meters high and one meter wide, but how do I get that texture to fit like it's two blocks of concrete battered by the elements??

I also think my columns should be more massive, what do you guys think?

Well I think if you apply a UVW Unwrap modifier to the barrier in 3ds Max it helps I think.

Jonathan

Quote from: mtg on March 02, 2010, 08:10:52 AM
How do I get the texture of the barriers to be like this, I know I should do Something in MAX with my UVWmap. But what?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg519.imageshack.us%2Fi%2F11422221.jpg%2F&hash=e4b7eaff12ec5f49a6dd3a2c6925a9f45cafb213)
They now look like this..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F2871%2F80467506.jpg&hash=e0ddcad57c09348f6be11d1e35f210f1cbd0d2d7)
I also think my columns should be more massive, what do you guys think?

Yes, as Jonathan said: you need the unwrap tool.
If you don't know how to do it... I'll show you how to simply flip the texture.

Since you have a simple texture and a simple mesh,
1. Select the mesh
2. Add the modifier "Unwrap UVW"
3. Select "Face" mode (by pressing

• in the main modifier window and clicking on "Face")
  4. Select the face of the model you want to edit
  5. Click on "Edit" in the parameters rollout
  6. In the new window select your texture instead of "checker" (top of the window, on the right)
  7. Now move, rotate, do-what-you-want with the red part (moving it will move the texture on the model)
  
  (if you have alignement problems such as stretching red part, after selcting the face, press "box" in the map parameters rollout: you'll have a single face to edit)

I'm a bit lost on what to do next,

I should post a pic. when I say I'm lost. So you guys get an Idea  ;)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg341.imageshack.us%2Fimg341%2F566%2F49891520.jpg&hash=6eaef6327291631eedeeea91ff444e4669e4dd58)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg202.imageshack.us%2Fimg202%2F1327%2F50844382.jpg&hash=6e89d5b53216adf672df170cfd13f97b46ab9881)

I have been experimenting, and look what happened  ;D
thanks for pointing me in the right direction! I'm realizing though that i have to remodel my barriers, as my experiment tells me that the parts of the barrier should three different planes, two sides and one top part, with their UWV-map at 90 degrees.


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F1447%2F10251122.jpg&hash=2968c7e40c84268e32cc1283b74d21ffce27971a)

-edit- I know there's a less complex way to make the barriers, but I think this will work, and I don't have a clue how to put two different UWVmaps on one plane?

As you can see I'm working on the barriers they look better don't they!? But as you can see my road deck is to wide,
How wide should it be?


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg38.imageshack.us%2Fimg38%2F5121%2F31871470.jpg&hash=69a768002904d2e88ea3b8d487b8507c2f98f395)

Make it the same width as the El-MIS, you can get the width by importing the model into 3ds max. Or ask Alex or Vince.

Jonathan

Quoteyou can get the width by importing the model into 3ds max

You can do that!? how?

Quote from: mtg on March 06, 2010, 11:30:49 AM
You can do that!? how?

Just go into the Reader, find the S3D model you want to export, click the "3DS Functions" button and select "Export as 3DS".  The S3D model will be exported as a 3DS mesh, which you can import into 3ds Max or even Gmax (though the latter's a little trickier sometimes).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F4586%2F3dsexport.jpg&hash=5561ded8ba64fcfc36e56033ac8256d9b9dafb20)

You may also notice an "Import 3DS" option there as well . . . it's possible to import one directly as well, which eliminates the rendering process entirely, which can be very handy for dealing with True3D transit network and automata models.

One quick note on that, though.  The game swapped the usual definitions of the Y and Z-axes so you'll need to have the model be rotated 90 degrees on the X-axis before import.  Of course, with the advent of cogeo's handy SC4 Model Tweaker, if you forget to rotate in the export process, it's easy to fix.

I've attached an actual 30m EMIS .3ds mesh that's already been exported for your convenience, though. :)

-Alex

Thanks Alex!  :thumbsup:
Now doesn't this looks much better!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F922%2F22542835.jpg&hash=a4f31ec021f5b2c53a82f2562daa0f192d966d62)

I came up with something odd
I'm re modelling my ramp, and when I made the road deck of the first piece I've had no problems as you can see above, but when I tried to reskin the next piece this happens, I modelled the planes in the same way with the same UWVmap on them??


how it shouldn't be
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg51.imageshack.us%2Fimg51%2F508%2F74412198.jpg&hash=4470319a4da3b609da1a6e57a50c638e1fc5ef49) 


how it should be
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg33.imageshack.us%2Fimg33%2F1828%2F62777372.jpg&hash=e0caf2147282895ad530d398c49295f8c5eb9728)

Some help would be nice  ;D

I think I've got it, a few pages ago Jonathan said

QuoteAnd make sure the width and length of the plane is 16mx16m. Even if the ramp extends beyond the sides of the ramp

In my enthusiasm I made everything 12 meters wide including the road deck!  &ops

Some odd stuff is happening, there's one piece not showing ?, also the columns are sliced somehow? also when I try to rotated the map the game CTDs on me?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F3619%2F23562777.jpg&hash=bb2e660dfb8f632d5b37dda17dc5d793372fa6da)

Short answer: You've done something wrong.
Long answer: I wish I knew what you did wrong. (Hey, it's longer)

Regards,
Korot

The missing model:
Either the S3D is wrong or you've changed the IID of it/changed the RTK in the exemplar.
Make sure that on the material of the MIS deck, that all the checkboxes at the top of the Mats options (which is below the list of Mats) are checked, specifically the Framebuffering and Depth Test boxes.

Jonathan

QuoteShort answer: You've done something wrong.
Long answer: I wish I knew what you did wrong. (Hey, it's longer)

hahahaha!!  :D


Johathan, can you have a look?  -edit btw. everyone else can look also if they want to  ;)-

Quotethat all the checkboxes at the top of the Mats options (which is below the list of Mats) are checked, specifically the Framebuffering and Depth Test boxes.

Some of the frame buffering boxes where not checked, I'm trying it now!

-edit- didn't work

the missing model maybe because it's rendered upside down  (so the backface is facing upwards)

to test this turn off the "backface culling" on the three textures and see if it displays in game.

Thanks for all the support, I just reexported the meshes, with this result!  :)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg203.imageshack.us%2Fimg203%2F9232%2F20733894.jpg&hash=42efe995918b6941547f989d20f569067a61099a)

But (there's always a but) why do my pieces have these spacings between them??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg534.imageshack.us%2Fimg534%2F7422%2F71215856.jpg&hash=88f8003cf37fca3c9a31698611ced6ffa51ba75d)

Are those gaps also apparent in your models?

Regards,
Korot

QuoteAre those gaps also apparent in your models?

no!

as you can see in this pic of one of the models

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg59.imageshack.us%2Fimg59%2F6846%2F93316965.jpg&hash=9ce1f4a9b3a4f12ce2bd6739c1094fd015d9125f)

hmmm, I think i've got it! I forgot to put an UWVmap on the concrete deck  &ops) I re-imported the last two pieces and now look!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg718.imageshack.us%2Fimg718%2F8440%2F43700932.jpg&hash=a3072a6563e6651f85c587131c48e26125d7aa05)

I did some modelling and I think I'm making progress  ;D
I putted the MIS off-ramp that comes with RHW3,2 next to my ramp.
It still needs some work on those #%&@*#%^ uvw-maps (still don't get that stuff really)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg706.imageshack.us%2Fimg706%2F9945%2F82011653.jpg&hash=123fb00235bd8516d0f0b0e49afdb0982ea11251) 

So what do you guys think?

Ok, I started to get the path in my model, and it would be weird if I didn't had any questions wouldn't it?
I think I have the first part right though. Correct me if I'm wrong, here's a pic from the reader showing the path of the first part of my ramp (the top part that is) My questions are What IID should I use? should I use the IID of the 3SD? Do I have the X,Y,Z coordinates right?? question 3: Is this really it? or is there something more to it that makes it a painfully hard thing to do?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F3782%2F82389882.jpg&hash=7da9e7e06a5ebd7f6eb5cddd7f43f4d00f811ef9)

I'm pretty sure the X value should be 0 (dead center), and the height will not 30 on both sides of the tile, on one side it will be slightly lower.

Also the name of the path is Car_3_1_a yet you have set the Entry/exit to 1 then 3.

use Daeley's path creator and makes it very simple, it lets you make paths by clicking on a tile, which you can put the MIS texture on (very useful when you get to more complicated tiles)

The Paths files should have the IID of the exemplar (which in this case, and most cases is the IID of your S3D)

QuoteAlso the name of the path is Car_3_1_a yet you have set the Entry/exit to 1 then 3.

I changed it to this

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F6119%2F48890351.jpg&hash=6dcab6a4f9bc8dd0330925f9855eb8d12bbeefdf)

Well that didn't work :( Did I forget something??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg235.imageshack.us%2Fimg235%2F1334%2F95689928.jpg&hash=31e9eaf1c9f836ef7ae20d8e29894273ee74ceb6)

or should I make the complete paths for the whole model?

Quoteand the height will not 30 on both sides of the tile, on one side it will be slightly lower.

The most top piece is just a straight piece.  ;)

Wow, this is coming along great!  Keep up the good work!   :thumbsup:

The 3rd line in the file should be 1 not 2 as you only have one path.

And I meant that if the values say 3 then 1 then the name should be Car_3_1_a. You've made them the opposite again, the comment doesn't actually affect anything in game but you need to know the direction of the path (if the direction is wrong then it will still show in game but it flash red and white telling you that the direction is wrong.


In your case the path file should be Car_3_1_a and also 3 then one in the values(keep the values the same)
Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan!!

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I just made it LHD, it should be RHD

QuoteWow, this is coming along great!  Keep up the good work!

Thanks! I will!

I managed to get the paths right! 
&hlp

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But how do I get those stubs at the ends to get the dragable network to hook up with my ramp?? 

To get the stubs, have a look at the MIS ramp and just copy the checktype of the tile which has the stub to your puzzle piece. (it will be the line which has optional in it)

Hmm where do I look  %confuso

In the RUL file (10000000).
Look for it in the TAB rings and then search for the HID.

Jonathan

eehm im looking in the RUL but ehh can you be a bit more specific??  &ops

Well find the MIS Ramp in the Puzzle piece RUL file. To find it, open the RUL file in notepad or similar, then look through the RHW section at the top of the file (where all the HIDs are with the AddType lines.) Then press Ctrl+F and type in the HID you found for the MIS ramp followed by a ] (eg "5678]", no quotes)

This will jump you to the MIS ramp puzzle piece, then see the letter at the bottom of the CellLayout.
Then get copy the checktype of the same letter from the MIS ramp and put in your puzzle piece change the letter to one you have not already used then add the letter to the bottom of your celllayout

Jonathan

On the CTD thing, it's probably something to do with vertex count in the prim tab. I've had models that plop fine but when you go and rotate or zoom it, it CTDs. The number of vertices should be 3 * triangle count in the Indx tab in the respective group.

Lost track of pages there.

Anyways, great work so far!

Thanks Jonathan  :thumbsup:

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But I think the stub on the 30m high part I have to create myself!?

-edit- Now that my piece is nearing it completion, the next question arises, How do I make a dragable network?

QuoteBut I think the stub on the 30m high part I have to create myself!?

You are correct.

Making a draggable network is simpler but harder, in that it is easy to write and there is only one line of code to use but actaully using it can be harder than making the puzzle piece.

btw, if the top piece of the ramp is completly flat then I suggest removing it (you will have to remove he top CellLayout and top ConsLayout and then shift all exemplar/S3D down ######10 (so 5DD00010 becomes 5DD00000)

But keep this model, but not in your plugins as it will come in useful later on.

To create the stub you will need to be using RUL 10000001, again in the NAM_Controller.dat
This file defines what texture/model/path gets placed when a network get dragged over a different network to form an intersection (eg RailxRoad Level Crossing).

To make the stubs (there are called starter pieces/tiles or false intersections if they are for a NAM network)
Basically you need to create the rules for a intersection that cannot be created by dragging the network in game. Only puzzle pieces will be able to create them.

There have been advancements in this section of draggable networks, as now you can drag other networks under/over/on these starter tiles. You will have to ask Alex about this as I can't remember how this is done.

will post a bit more but need to check up on something first.

Some things on starter pieces...

as Jon said, its based in RUL1. First, you'll have to think of an appropriate false intersection network (maybe use monorail, since ERHW uses lighrail, and GRHW uses road). Then find the proper section, which will either be [DirtRoadMonorailIntersectionSolutions] or [MonorailDirtRoadIntersectionSolutions]
The syntax for a single line is

anything = 0xSSEENNWW, 0xSSEENNWW, 0xIID, ROTATION, FLIP?

Anything: can be anything. Generally word#
0xSSEENNWW: RUL side flag bytes for the corrosponding network in the section header ([Network1Network2IntersectionSolutions], the first one is Network1 and the second Network2). Allowed flags are 00, 01, 02, 03, 04. 00 = no connection. 01 = diagonal. 02 = orthogonal. 03 = diagonal. 04 = median.

For example:

[RoadDirtRoadIntersectionSolutions]

...

;--RHW-4 Starter Piece--
TYPE1=0x00010100,0x02000200,0x5eb4b100,2,0
TYPE2=0x01010000,0x00020002,0x5eb4b100,3,0
TYPE3=0x01000001,0x02000200,0x5eb4b100,0,0
TYPE4=0x00000101,0x00020002,0x5eb4b100,1,0


The first 0xSSEENNWW segment is road, the second dirtroad (RHW). Basically, when the game encounters an intersection of this type, it will draw it according to the listed IID with proper rotation and flip. Because RUL1 is not omnidirectional, you have to specify one per rotation.

If anything isn't clear feel free to ask, its too early in the morning for me :P

EDIT: Jon, here's how I did the RHW x Starter thing:

TYPE1=0x00010100,0x02020202,0x5ebe0100,0,0
TYPE2=0x01010000,0x02020202,0x5ebe0100,1,0
TYPE3=0x01000001,0x02020202,0x5ebe0100,2,0
TYPE4=0x00000101,0x02020202,0x5ebe0100,3,0


EDIT2: Continuing on about stuff... for the Ortho HEMIS-1 (High Elevated MIS-1, at least thats what the IID designator tells me) its best to edit the existing EMIS model, and raise it up 15 meters in the vert tab. To make it easier, I've made an Excel document that does vertex transformations. I'll attach it later today. Be sure to put it in 0x5DE4B500 (that's the IID designation for it). Once you get your starter piece set up, we'll move on to draggable networks.

QuoteMaking a draggable network is simpler

;D 

Quotebut harder

:(

Quotein that it is easy to write and there is only one line of code to use

;D

Quotebut actaully using it can be harder than making the puzzle piece.

:( (sometimes it is all so confusing) lol

Thanx Jonathan and blue I'm still reading what Blue was writing (good morning BTW) I can't see jet where it links  to a model (I was already thinking on using the most top part of my ramp for this) but I think I have to read it a few more thimes!

TYPE1=0x00010100,0x02000200,0x5eb4b100,2,0

Bolded part refers to the IID of the texture or model exemplar. (oops looks like I left that out of the syntax)

Good morning to you as well (er, maybe afternoon for you)!

EDIT: Rotation and flip. Same as the puzzle piece thing.

O, I found this in the RUL

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Can I just add this

;piece ####

[MonorailDirtRoadIntersectionSolutions]

type1=0x00010100,0x02000200,0xIIDof model I have to create,0,0
type2=0x00010100,0x02000200,0xIIDof model I have to create,1,0
type3=0x00010100,0x02000200,0xIIDof model I have to create,2,0
type4=0x00010100,0x02000200,0xIIDof model I have to create,3,0

I see that the position of the digits, in Network one and two, shift, why is that??

The reason why they shift is because the 4 lines represent the 4 rotations of the intersection. One rightwards shift = 1 counterclockwise rotation, so its best to have your rotations go 0,3,2,1.

Also, the HEMIS IID is 0x5DE4B500, since we've already set up an IID system for elevated networks.

Don't define the section again, that'll cause trouble, for now just stick your entry right below it. Instead of using piece ###, simply put a 1 line description like ";Added by mtg 3/13/10, HEMIS-1 starter"

Ok, this would be right than!?


;HEMIS starter

type1=0x00010100,0x02000200,0x5DE4B500,0,0
type2=0x01010000,0x00020002,0x5DE4B500,3,0
type3=0x01000001,0x02000200,0x5DE4B500,2,0
type4=0x00000101,0x00020002,0x5DE4B500,1,0

BTW does 0x5DE4B500, already exists? as a model couldn't find it with reader?? or am I asking stupid questions??

Yes, looks good. 0x5DE4B500 doesn't exist as a model, exemplar, or path yet, but rather its an open slot for which you can make your model, exemplar, and path.

Also, the exemplar in this case must have a GID of 0x6BE08658.
Find the model at 0x5DE4B200, copy it and change it to 0x5DE4B500, and lift all vertexes up by a value of 15. You can use MS Excel to make the job easier. (The up/down is the Y column).

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This should do the trick shouldn't it!?

But it doesn't....  ()sad() It must be the exemplar file, isn't it!?

I took a look at the exemplar file of the original model, I thought I could just chance some stuff and have it right!  ()stsfd()

But when I opened the file there's allot of stuff I don't know ()what()

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PivotPointPosition and BoundingBox do nothing as far as I know.

Have you added the the starter to your puzzle piece in RUL0 yet?

Jonathan

QuoteHave you added the the starter to your puzzle piece in RUL0 yet?

&ops no

That's why, don't despair :P
To add them on, here's what you do. First, at the head of the piece, add another tile where the starter will go in the CellLayout. Then, in checktypes, you'll want this:

CheckType = *insert the chosen letter here* - monorail: 0x00010100 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xffffffff optional


See how the monorail and dirtroad checks match up with what you put in RUL1? The 0xffffffff is there to ensure proper plopment, and the optional is to designate a stub.

I think we have a texture problem? or am I missing something??

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In the S3D of the model you need to go to the Mats tab, select the MIS desk texture and change the IID. You will need to add 4 to the last digit so is it ends in 0 it will become 4, if it is 5 then it will become 9 and it is a then it will become e.

Jonathan

AND NOW!!! AFTER TWO MONTHS and ten days, I'm presenting you my first complete puzzle piece!!!!!
I started this piece on January 3th, at that time I didn't know anything!! and thanks to all you guys who helped me! (especially Jonathan and Vince.) I now am able to create puzzle pieces :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  ;D  Thanks already for all the effort you put in this and believing that I would make it!! I hope you guys will stick around and help me to construct the rest of the network  ;)

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Now are you ready to start the initial draggable part? :P And congrats! Your hard work is what did it ;)

QuoteNow are you ready to start the initial draggable part?

absolutely  ;D

Lets get cracking with the only RUL we haven't touched then ;)

RUL 0x10000002 (or RUL2) is the overrides RUL. The syntax, without any fanfare, is as follows:
IID1,Rotation,Flip?,IID2,Rotation,Flip?=IID3,Rotation,Flip?,IID4,Rotation,Flip?

In words,

Texture in specific orientation next to another texture in specific orientation should be overriden into this texture in specified rotation next to specified texture in specified Rotation.

Follow me so far?

EDIT: Even more simplified, texture next to texture override to texture next to texture.

think so, one texture follows the other...?

Well its a E/W arrangement

Lets pretend + is a texture at 0xDEADBEEF, X at 0x12345678, Y is 0x31415926, and % 0x11235813

if we want the pattern +X to become Y%, then we would use the folllowing (assuming they are all in 0 position and no flip) :

0xDEADBEEF,0,0,0x12345678,0,0=0x31415926,0,0,0x11235813,0,0.

And if we wanted +X to become ++ (like in most override networks),

0xDEADBEEF,0,0,0x12345678,0,0=0xDEADBEEF,0,0,0xDEADBEEF,0,0.

Got it!

one equals the other, one deadbeef and some stuff becomes two hamburgers!
No really I've got it!

Yep, thats the basic of it. First before we mess around with HEMIS, lets start with replacing an ortho road with oh, any texture you want. You want to pay attention to rotation and flip this time though. FYI, most orthogonal textures run N/S so you'll need to rotate 1 or rotate 3, or both (depending if its the same when rotated or not (ie RHW-2 is the same when rotated 3 or 1, but RHW-4 is not)

ok, I'm looking at RUL2 (lots of stuff there)
what do I do?

Go right to the end and stick whatever code you need on ;)

so I just add

0xIIDROAD,0,0,0xIIDROAD,0,0 = 0xIIDRAIL,0,0,0XIIDRAIL

and that's it??

(Don't know the IID's by hard is there a list somewhere??)

Rather,

0xIIDROAD,1,0,0xIIDROAD,1,0 = 0xIIDRAIL,1,0,0XIIDRAIL,1,0
0xIIDROAD,3,0,0xIIDROAD,3,0 = 0xIIDRAIL,3,0,0XIIDRAIL,3,0
0xIIDROAD,1,0,0xIIDROAD,3,0 = 0xIIDRAIL,1,0,0XIIDRAIL,3,0
0xIIDROAD,3,0,0xIIDROAD,1,0 = 0xIIDRAIL,3,0,0XIIDRAIL,1,0

The reason why 4 lines for something so simple? Rotation combinations.
And IIDs for maxis networks can be found at Tools>Texture Viewer. Be sure the last digit is a 0 (or whatever the lowest zoom is) when you put it into RUL.

thanks Vince
that makes sense! I'll try that tomorrow.  :thumbsup: 

Quote from: mtg on March 13, 2010, 11:03:01 AM
AND NOW!!! AFTER TWO MONTHS and ten days, I'm presenting you my first complete puzzle piece!!!!!
I started this piece on January 3th, at that time I didn't know anything!! and thanks to all you guys who helped me! (especially Jonathan and Vince.) I now am able to create puzzle pieces :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  ;D  Thanks already for all the effort you put in this and believing that I would make it!! I hope you guys will stick around and help me to construct the rest of the network  ;)

Well, you know what they say: the first piece is the hardest  ;) Good luck with creating the rest of the network!

QuoteAnd IIDs for maxis networks can be found at Tools>Texture Viewer.

hmm there are allot of textures there.. Is there a way to filter them on transit textures??

Ok I think I found the road textures, but witch one should I use, like none is ending in zero?

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Well Sc4Tool is strange in that when it says Group in that picture it does not mean Group ID but rather a group of textures that make up that "image".

So like in Sc4Tool the following textures,

00004b00
00004b01
00004b02
00004b03
00004b04

would be considered in the group 00004b00 (just in SC4Tool)

So in SC4Tool you would use the Group number in your RULs

Almost always (99.9%) (for textures anyway) the IIDs you use in RULs will end with 2 0s.

But you are doing an override for RHW, so you do not need road textures/IIDs. You will need to look in the RHW dats for those textures. We've started to compile a huge list of IIDs for all NAM projects, but tbh we prefer to spend our time on making the projects ratther than documenting them ;)

Quoteut you are doing an override for RHW, so you do not need road textures/IIDs. You will need to look in the RHW dats for those textures.

I know but Vince is trying to teach me the basics I think

Yeah Im trying to get him to get the feel of them first ;)

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IID formation of maxis items:
0xNNNNPPWZ

N = network number(s)
P = Piece #
W = Wealth
Z = Zoom

Wealth should always be 0
Zoom should point towards the lowest zoom of the texture (usually 0, 5, or A)

0x00004B04,1,0,0x00004B04,1,0 = 0x03031504,1,0,0x03031504,1,0
0x00004B04,3,0,0x00004B04,3,0 = 0x03031504,3,0,0x03031504,3,0
0x00004B04,1,0,0x00004B04,3,0 = 0x03031504,1,0,0x03031504,3,0
0x00004B04,3,0,0x00004B04,1,0 = 0x03031504,3,0,0x03031504,1,0

So this should transform the straight road in straight rail?

Change all the last digits of the IID's to 0 and you're all set :thumbsup:

NOTE: It most likely won't carry traffic because its a rail path on a road type network, but it should have paths.

It Worked!!!


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-edit- lets go on the lesson 2

Alright, lesson 2! Lets start with the orthogonal override for your HEMIS.

First of all let me provide you the IID of RHW-2: 0x5E004B00

Now, rotations matter more in an override network that isn't symmetrical (like HEMIS). What you'll want to do is have your starter stub next to all combinations of ortho RHW-2. Be sure the rotation of the HEMIS are consistent (on the same line of code that is).

Do I have to write the code in RUL1 right where I put the code for the starter?
With four lines of code for all rotations??

So where I putted the IID for rail in lesson 1, Now I should put 0x5E004B00. But what texture am I overriding?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. The 4 lines of IntersectionSolution go under the proper entry in RUL1, and the override code that spreads the HEMIS along its base network (RHW-2) goes in RUL2, for now at the bottom.

EDIT: Here you'll need to use the Puzzle Drag type syntax. Lesson 1 was to show you how it works and how to get a stable override by catching all situations. I'll start you off with an example from the ERHW-4 RULs.

;----ORTHOGONAL (0x5e004b00 -> 0x5eb4b100)----
0x5eb4b100,1,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5eb4b100,1,0,0x5eb4b100,1,0
0x5eb4b100,1,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5eb4b100,1,0,0x5eb4b100,1,0
0x5eb4b100,3,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5eb4b100,3,0,0x5eb4b100,3,0
0x5eb4b100,3,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5eb4b100,3,0,0x5eb4b100,3,0


We'll take the first line for this example.

0x5eb4b100,1,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5eb4b100,1,0,0x5eb4b100,1,0 in words is

RHW-4 texture next to RHW-2 = RHW-4 texture next to RHW-4 texture.

This code does two functions: Carry the override from the starter, and continue the override.

So the firts line in HEMIS should be in words

MIS texture next to RHW2 texture = MIS texture next to MIS texture

Well not that line, I mean the first line of code, but that's alright. And you're aiming for HEMIS (0x5EB4B500) ;)

Ah I think I get it!
one sec

MIS texture next to RHW2 texture = 0x5EB4B500 next to 0x5EB4B500

-edit- or am I still not getting it?

I believe that's correct, try it and see.

Ok, lets analyse this, because I think I'm lost on all the info again

For a dragable network I need:

A model/texture in my case the extended misstub 0x5EB4B500
an override that goes in RUL2, this tells the game that when you drag in my case RHW2 it transform in HEMIS.

please correct me and fill the blanks if you want!!

QuoteI believe that's correct, try it and see.

I'll try it!!

Correct, though the code you are inserting will tell the game to draw HEMIS when you drag RHW-2 from another tile of HEMIS (the starter)

I added this to the RUL2


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With ended up with this

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not quite right..
Am I missing something??

You should not have spaces around the = sign. Also the the very first IID does not seem correct, firstly it ends in 'e' it should end in 0. But the IID seems wrong, I would think it should be 5eb4b500.

Jonathan

Yeah you're writing override code for EMIS-1 (15M). Change the first IID over to the HEMIS-1 (30M) IID as Jon said.

I chanced it to this, with the same result

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That's because the 30m EMIS is at 0x5DE4B500, not 0x5EB4B500 (which would be the IID assigned for 30m ERHW-4).  Change that and you should be fine.

-Alex

And also, you have some rotational conflicts there, last two lines. Whatever the HEMIS rotation is, then that rotation is the same for the result.

HEMIS,1,0,RHW2,3,0=HEMIS,1,0,HEMIS,1,0
HEMIS,3,0,RHW2,1,0=HEMIS,3,0,HEMIS,3,0

Thanks Alex!

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Now what if I want to have a column, every other tile..?

That would have to be T21'd. Or it would take a hell of a lot of RUL'ing.

Regards,
Korot

Quote from: mtg on March 14, 2010, 01:27:36 PM
Now what if I want to have a column, every other tile..?

You'd need to have a non-True-3D column model and use a T21 exemplar to apply it.  That's how the 15m EMIS and ERHW-4 are set up.

Quote from: Korot on March 14, 2010, 01:28:30 PM
Or it would take a hell of a lot of RUL'ing.

Hell would be right--it'd probably end up quadrupling the amount of RUL work necessary and the resultant RULs would be rather unstable as well.

-Alex

QuoteAnd also, you have some rotational conflicts there

I have some more rotational conflicts, I can't rotated my ramp..??

QuoteThat would have to be T21'd.

I thought I would at some point come to T21's.

But before I jump in to T21's, and after I solve my rotation problem. I want to make my newly created network to make curves, and be able to cross other networks.

That is the best plan, T21s tend to under the decoration section of modding so it comes last :).

Can you show the RULs of your puzzle piece again?

Jonathan

Im guessing there might be something wrong either with the rotations in your RUL0 entry or the rotation intersections in RUL1. Can you show us both of these?

Also, curves and overpasses will come soon, let's get all problems sorted out so we have the best platform to work with ;)

The RUL's and the DAT of the model are available on the NAM associates board
I refresh those files every time I make a "big" change so you can check out what I'm doing!

I've taken a look, and the rotated versions in RUL1 don't line up.

Old:

type1=0x00010100,0x02000200,0x5DE4B500,0,0
type2=0x01010000,0x00020002,0x5DE4B500,3,0
type3=0x01000001,0x02000200,0x5DE4B500,2,0
type4=0x00000101,0x00020002,0x5DE4B500,1,0


Fixed:

type1=0x00010100,0x02000200,0x5DE4B500,0,0
type2=0x00000101,0x00020002,0x5DE4B500,3,0
type3=0x01000001,0x02000200,0x5DE4B500,2,0
type4=0x01010000,0x00020002,0x5DE4B500,1,0


The reason why it won't rotate is because you didn't do a consistent right or left byte shift, the 01 flags were all over the place.

I copy paste the new code in the rul, but I still can't rotated the piece.

Generally, due to how the starters on the ends work, you'll have to make a separate "reverse" version for transitions like that to get them to go the opposite direction.  Since you've got a 30m-to-ground setup going, you'd need to make a ground-to-30m.  It should involve just cloning the piece and giving the clone new IIDs, then flipping the U-coordinates on the UV-mapping for the roadbed (but not the rest of the piece), followed by adding a RUL entry using the versions of the starters that are rotated 180 degrees.

You should be able to rotate the 30m-to-ground one you have in 90-degree increments, though.

-Alex

Found the issue, look at the major entry of your RUL0 entry. It says [HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00015480]

Should be [HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005480]


[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005480]
;Added by MTG textures by Tarkus Tutored by Jonathan and Blue Lightning 02/16/2010.
;RHW double-elevated-ramp

....

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00015480]
CopyFrom = 0x5480
Rotate   = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00025480]
CopyFrom = 0x5480
Rotate   = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00035480]
CopyFrom = 0x5480
Rotate   = 3


It's spinning like a dream now !!

Alex, I believe there may be a better way of doing the reverse ramps.

You could just copy the original using CopyFrom then use transpose to flip it (there is also a "function" that flips a puzzle piece the other axis, but it hasn't been used before and I can't remember what it is) and then use the AutoPathBase to set paths which go in the reverse direction (as I don't think they will be reversed by the transpose)

That way eliminating the need for duplicate S3Ds with the texture's flipped?

but you'd probably also have to override the previeweffect.

Jwonathan

Ok before I do the reverse ramp I'll rebuild my current ramp, as it still needs some work on the concrete deck, maybe when I'm doing that I can do the reverse ramp as well. But that's something for next week.  ;)

Quote from: Jonathan on March 14, 2010, 02:46:58 PM
You could just copy the original using CopyFrom then use transpose to flip it (there is also a "function" that flips a puzzle piece the other axis, but it hasn't been used before and I can't remember what it is) and then use the AutoPathBase to set paths which go in the reverse direction (as I don't think they will be reversed by the transpose)

I'll have to mess around with that.  I do know that the usual "Transpose" function does not work with puzzle drags, though.  At least, I've never managed to make it work in the past 2 1/2 years of working with them.

-Alex

Ok! what's next overpasses, curvy things??

-edit- I think first will be curvy stuff

With my drageabel network I can now drag a nice straight road deck, but without corners jet,
Do I have to write an override, that says
0x5EB4B500 next to RHW2 texture = 90 degree turn texture next to 90 degree turn texture

-edit- that doesn't make sense it will tell the game to make a turn when I'm dragging straight.. ?? 
hmm It must be something else than, I must tell the game when I move the cursor out off the straight path it makes a corner piece  %confuso

These ruls are not done by what you cursor does (another set of RULs do something kind of like that)
Basically what happens with you starter piece you just made is, when you drag the RHW-2 form the starter piece it plops a straight RHW-2 texture (as this is what the base RULs define when there is a tile which is straight) then the game "looks in" RUL2 and see that your RULs you wrote say "when a 30mMIS (the starter tile) is next to a RHW-2 tile(what you dragged) make the 30mMIS into a 30mMIS (ie do nothing) and make the RHW-2 tile into a 30mMIS" except it never actually draws the RHW-2 texture as the game works on IIDs. So it only draws the 30mMIS piece and that's what you see.

So to make a 90 degree curve, you would have to do:
Straight30mMIS next to 90degreeRHW-2 = Straight30mMIS next to 90degree30mMIS

Hope that makes sense.

Jonathan

 :thumbsup: When you point it out it all seems so simple!?

Straight30mMIS next to 90degreeRHW-2 = Straight30mMIS next to 90degree30mMIS


Is there an easy way to find those models-textures or do I have to shout through The RHW dat to find them??

Found this in RUL2

Quote;Small 90-Curve
0x5de4b100,1,0,0x5e000f00,1,0=0x5de4d100,1,0,0x5de0f100,1,0
0x5de4b100,3,0,0x5e000f00,1,0=0x5de5d100,1,0,0x5de1f100,1,0
0x5de4b100,1,0,0x5e000f00,2,0=0x5de5d100,3,1,0x5de1f100,2,0
0x5de4b100,3,0,0x5e000f00,2,0=0x5de4d100,3,1,0x5de0f100,2,0
0x5de0f100,0,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de0f100,0,0,0x5de4d100,1,1
0x5de0f100,0,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de0f100,0,0,0x5de4d100,1,1
0x5de1f100,0,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de1f100,0,0,0x5de5d100,1,1
0x5de1f100,0,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de1f100,0,0,0x5de5d100,1,1
0x5de0f100,3,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de0f100,3,0,0x5de4d100,3,0
0x5de0f100,3,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de0f100,3,0,0x5de4d100,3,0
0x5de1f100,3,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de1f100,3,0,0x5de5d100,3,0
0x5de1f100,3,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de1f100,3,0,0x5de5d100,3,0

I think this is the code for a small 90 degree curve for EMIS
Should I just copy the code, and elevate the pieces to 30m?
If the answer is yes I can't find some of the S3d pieces in the RHW dat.

All the RHW-2 are textures it does not have S3Ds.


To me that section of RULs you have taken is too long there should only be about 4 lines of RUl for a 90degree curve (though I've only been involved in rail RULs which dont have 90 corners). But there should only be 3 different IIDs in total you need to create the corner.


The RHW IID follows a similar pattern to the Road IID, but AFAIK the easiest way to find an IID is to ask someone for it, or sort all the files in the dat file type and scroll through all the FSH files by holding down the arrow key.

Jonathan

If I'm not mistaking, to get my network to curve
I need the texture IID's of 3 RHW2 pieces
I think they are :
1= 5e004d04
2= 5e000c04
3= 5e000a04

-EDIT-
ARE THESE S3D'S THE RIGHT ONES FOR THE EMIS
1= 5de4d200
2= 5de0c200
3=5de1a200

Then I need the s3d IID's of the EMIS models 1,2 and 3 (or I create them  ;))

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F9616%2F70960538.jpg&hash=93d952585bc104b4e59f0992a2898080fa14f5d4)

Then I write the following code (without any rotations)

Ortho30mMIS   next to    5e004d04      =     Ortho30m Mis     next to    Piece 1 HEMIS
piece 1 HEMIS  next to   5e000c04       =     piece 1 HEMIS    next to    piece 2 HEMIS
piece 2 HEMIS  next to   5e000a04       =     piece 2 HEMIS    next to    piece 3 HEMIS

piece 3 HEMIS  next to   5e000a04       =     piece 3 HEMIS    next to    piece 3 HEMIS (with different rotations to get the diagonal parts to line up)

The rotations I'm not sure of jet, do I have to write code for every possible bending? like
a code for south to north/west, south to nort/east, east to north/west and so one? 



It's very hard to put this in words (and I hope it makes sense) but I hope you guys understand want I wanna ask??

You will not need to use the EMIS IIDs in the RUL, so what you have written in your post is right.

You will need 4 lines of code (for just the first tile of the curve, number 1 in your picture), as RUL2 doesn't care about orientation

1.  [left with yellow line on the outside]
2.  [right with yellow line on the outside]
3.  [left with white line on the outside]
4.  [right with white line on the outside]

Does that answer you question?

Try writing the RULs, and post them here and try them in game in every possible direction

Jonathan

QuoteDoes that answer you question?

Don't they always do!?

hmm 16 lines of code for one piece that means 64 codes to get the turn??
I'll write them at work tomorrow  ;D

no &ops, sorry I got that wrong ignore my post. lol. of course 64 is just way to much for one turn.
Let me just go correct that. EDIT: All corrected now :)
Jonathan

 ;D Now my boss will be happy! I'll show him these posts when he asks me what the hell i'm doing! ( It could be worse)  :D

I wrote this code, but it doesn't work. Do I have the rotations wrong or is the code wrong??
0x5de4d500 = the EMIS piece, elevated to HEMIS it used to be 0x5de4d200

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg220.imageshack.us%2Fimg220%2F7164%2F20625200.jpg&hash=4d5c4bafb2fb5b6ac1f67bb3b1d801029d23aeeb)

You've once again got the rotations wrong:

0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d04,1,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d04,1,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d04,2,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4d500,2,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d04,2,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4d500,2,0

Regards,
Korot

QuoteYou've once again got the rotations wrong:

Will I ever learn  :bomb:
Thanks I'll try it!

I think there's something more wrong, it still doesn't work

To which model does the IID 0x5de4d500 refer? Is that the IID for the HEMIS, or do you yet have to make the model? I ask you, since the IID for the EMIS curve piece is 0x5de4d200
Also, without having added part 2 and 3, I doubt it will work.

That would result in (for 1 to 2):
0x5de4d200,1,0,5e000c04,1,0=0x5de4d200,1,0,0x5de0c200,1,0
0x5de4d200,3,0,5e000c04,1,0=0x5de4d200,3,0,0x5de0c200,1,0
0x5de4d200,1,0,5e000c04,2,0=0x5de4d200,1,0,0x5de0c200,2,0
0x5de4d200,3,0,5e000c04,2,0=0x5de4d200,3,0,0x5de0c200,2,0

And for 2 to 3:
0x5de0c200,1,0,0x5e000a04,1,0=0x5de0c200,1,0,0x5de1a200,1,0
0x5de0c200,3,0,0x5e000a04,1,0=0x5de0c200,3,0,0x5de1a200,1,0
0x5de0c200,1,0,0x5e000a04,2,0=0x5de0c200,1,0,0x5de1a200,2,0
0x5de0c200,3,0,0x5e000a04,2,0=0x5de0c200,3,0,0x5de1a200,2,0

And 3 onwards;
0x5de1a200,1,0,0x5e000a04,1,0=0x5de1a200,1,0,0x5de1a200,1,0
0x5de1a200,3,0,0x5e000a04,1,0=0x5de1a200,3,0,0x5de1a200,1,0
0x5de1a200,1,0,0x5e000a04,2,0=0x5de1a200,1,0,0x5de1a200,2,0
0x5de1a200,3,0,0x5e000a04,2,0=0x5de1a200,3,0,0x5de1a200,2,0

That will (hopefully) work.

Regards,
Korot

Both Korot and Maarten: Your second IID ends in 4, it must end in 0.

Korot, you forgot the 0x in front of the 2nd IID on th first chunk of RULs you posted.

btw, while RULs are not case sensitive, it is easier to stick with either lower case or upper case, as if you look at 2 identical IIDs but one in Uppercase, they will look different on first glance. And it's just easier to read.


btw, the rotations on the first half of the RUL 9before the = sign) are crucial, get these wrong and the RUL line will not work at all. However get the rotations on the second half of the line wrong and the first half correct, the RUL will show just the piece will be in the wrong rotation which you will be able to see and then work out in game.

You have something wrong though:
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d04,1,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d04,1,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d04,2,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4d500,2,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d04,2,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4d500,2,0

The rotations are completely wrong, you definetly do not need 2 (the ones I've bolded) as if you rotate the RHW-2 Texture90 degrees twice then that does not appear in game.

Also the 1 should be a 3. Hopefully this picture explains more:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FRHWtiles.jpg&hash=79f8104a1c019e629d811fc5c40de2ab1dde1962)

These are the rotations of the 2 textures in question:
RULs are done in a left > right fashion. So the texture need to make up the road going from left to right.
Because orth HEMIS tile are vertically symetrical (all orth tiles for all networks are vertically symmetrical, I can't think of one that isn't)
In that picture on the right of the vertical black line is how the first 2 lines of the RUL should be. You'll notice there's no way to using those rotations to make the curve, curve to the right. That is because you will need to involve mirrors but for the time being just try to get the EHMIS to curve left, then we can worry about the curving right when you've got that to work.


btw, Korot the RULs are done tile by tile, your eyes may see the curve as one curve, but the game doesn't so you would not need parts 2 and 3 for part 1 to convert.

EDIT: There's a tutorial here by JPlumbley (SAM creator)http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2500.0

Jonathan

Quote
btw, Korot the RULs are done tile by tile, your eyes may see the curve as one curve, but the game doesn't so you would not need parts 2 and 3 for part 1 to convert.

Yes, but this would also have implemented the diagonals. About the last digit being wrong: I used his (mtg's) IID's, and rotations. Oh well, at least you learn most from your mistakes.

Regards,
Korot

Quote from: Korot on March 17, 2010, 12:50:16 PM
Yes, but this would also have implemented the diagonals. About the last digit being wrong: I used his (mtg's) IID's, and rotations. Oh well, at least you learn most from your mistakes.

Regards,
Korot

Well as the rotations were wrong it wouldn't have. Once you get the first few tiles done then it becomes simpler and you can do many tiles at once, but the first few it's best just do one tile, check in game, fix, check in game, etc until you get it right :)

Jonathan

QuoteTo which model does the IID 0x5de4d500 refer? Is that the IID for the HEMIS, or do you yet have to make the model? I ask you, since the IID for the EMIS curve piece is 0x5de4d200

The IID is indeed the one from the HEMISpart, I took the 0x5de4d200 and elevated it to 30m and reIIDed it to 0x5de4d500

Jonathan once more you've proven your self to be able to make things very clear!

0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d04,3,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d04,3,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4d500,1,0

These first two lines should be right, shouldn't they? (can't try it in game now, don't have SC4 installed on my pc at work)

Yes that's right apart from the second IID Needs to end in 0 not 4.

Also i see that you've got the last IIDs rotation correct, I was going to come to that but you've got it worked out.

Jonathan

Now look at this! ;D I think I'm getting it finally  :D (I know It's the wrong S3D this one should be for the right turn, but what the heck it shows in game ()stsfd())

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg715.imageshack.us%2Fimg715%2F4378%2F58662519.jpg&hash=ca829c60d2738c2ff8821782ec059f8a233339f6)

Oh yeah BTW this is the corresponding code

;HEMIS Corner
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d00,3,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d00,3,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4d500,1,0
0x5de4b500,0,0,0x5e004d00,0,0=0x5de4b500,0,0,0x5de4d500,3,0
0x5de4b500,2,0,0x5e004d00,0,0=0x5de4b500,2,0,0x5de4d500,3,0


I can't find the S3D that does the right turn part so I tried to mirror the last codes in the lines, gave me some weird stuff, so I guess there's a part that I can's find or I have to mirror them and rotate them again?

The last 2 lines I dont think you need:


0x5de4b500,0,0,0x5e004d00,0,0=0x5de4b500,0,0,0x5de4d500,3,0
0x5de4b500,2,0,0x5e004d00,0,0=0x5de4b500,2,0,0x5de4d500,3,0

For override networks, the orth textures will be going from left to right. But because most(if not all) orth maxis textures go up<>down we've used that as the standard. So you only use rotations 1 and 3 (of course there are some exceptions to this rule)

Let me show you what those two lines are in pictures:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FRHWtiles2.jpg&hash=e8c004330d5d88bd5cefa7991b06cbfb043b196c)
As you can see they do not work.


EDIT: You mirror functions in the RULs will just flip the model and the texture, it will not change what colour line is on what side of the MIS. You need to find the other curve of the MIS. I don't know the IIDs of RHW pieces and sadly there is no list.

Jonathan

Ok. than I'll scout in the list of the RHW dat for the S3D  %confuso

Quote from: Jonathan on March 18, 2010, 01:03:00 PM
You mirror functions in the RULs will just flip the model and the texture, it will not change what colour line is on what side of the MIS. You need to find the other curve of the MIS. I don't know the IIDs of RHW pieces and sadly there is no list.

There is, albeit most of it is in my head.  The other IID you'd want would be 0x5de5d200 . . . so your 30m EMIS piece would be at 0x5de5d500.

Here's the basics of how the MIS IID scheme works.  The basic pattern is 0x5DEnnh00, where h is the height level (1=ground, 2=15m, 3=7.5m, 4=22.5m, 5=30m--yes, the plan is for a 5 level system).  A few of the basic nn values are as follows:

00-Orthogonal Stub
01-Diagonal Stub 1
02-Diagonal Stub 2
0A-Diagonal 1
0C-Orth-Diag Top 1
0F-90-Degree Bend 1 (0Fh80--additional part of 90-Degree Sharp MIS bend, new to Version 4.0)
1A-Diagonal 2
1C-Orth-Diag Top 2
1F-90-Degree Bend 2 (1Fh80--additional part of 90-Degree Sharp MIS bend, new to Version 4.0)
4B-Orthogonal
4D-Orth-Diag Bottom 1
5D-Orth-Diag Bottom 2

All the RHW networks have something relatively similar in place, with minor variation.

-Alex

Thanks Alex!!

I checked it out but 0x5de5d200 is also a right turn, and I'm looking for a left turn? 


(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg641.imageshack.us%2Fimg641%2F4073%2F77032602.jpg&hash=02014b412b650806f6a56c75bebe3000b6f2afd0)

Sorry I think I used the wrong term, you aren't looking for the left/right curve your looking for the curve with the lines on the opposite side.

Jonathan

Ok i'll give it a shot

Well the lines are on the other side  ()what()

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg682.imageshack.us%2Fimg682%2F1315%2F51115976.jpg&hash=296561842104c7f1bb258a2d6947c43a867e15ce)

Good :)
Do you see that if you flip the curve you have currently it will curve in the correct direction and the lines will be on the correct side.

To flip it just change last zero in your lines of RUL to 1.

But I can't remember if this flips the piece horizontally or vertically. So should it flip it the wrong way (you will now by checking in game)you will need to put the rotation of the piece to it's opposite.

The opposite of rotations are just 0<>2, and 1<>3

So the opposite of 1 is 3, etc.

Jonathan

Flipping and rotating worked! I just think there's still something wrong on the rotations of the starter piece..

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg532.imageshack.us%2Fimg532%2F8131%2F58509107.jpg&hash=e5c50a8772d17d9cc9737eaf1c9824037579d6ae)

Did you also alter the rotation/mirror of the MIS piece after the '=' sign?

Regards,
Korot

;HEMIS  network
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5E004B00,1,0=0x5de4B500,1,0,0x5de4B500,1,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5E004B00,3,0=0x5de4B500,3,0,0x5de4B500,3,0
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4b500,3,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4b500,1,0

;HEMIS Corner
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004d00,3,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de5d500,3,1
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004d00,3,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de5d500,3,1



This is the code I have so far, I think the problem lies within the first four lines

Have you tried re-dragging the network along the broken spot?

Regards,
Korot

Each time you change the RULs you have to redrag through previously made tils that are involved in the RULs you changed, in order to see the change.

Quote0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5E004B00,1,0=0x5de4B500,1,0,0x5de4B500,1,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5E004B00,3,0=0x5de4B500,3,0,0x5de4B500,3,0
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de4b500,3,0
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de4b500,1,0

The underlined rotations is correct as the 1st tile in override networks stays the same (only in rare special cases does it not)

But as the MIS is not symmetrical, you want the second tile to be in the same rotation as the first tile so you need to make the bolded 3 into 1 and the bolded 1 into 3 to match the first tile.

if the MIS was symetrical then your code would be correct as we generally keep the rotations the same as their pre = sign counterparts.

(in the STR we make sure the STR textures are the same orientation as the Maxis ones so we don't have to worry about the rotations, we just copy them from before the = sign)

Jonathan

Perfect, now lets get in to the rest of the diagonals, that will be a nice practice on rotations  ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F7214%2F41343670.jpg&hash=56b0382727682d8c9ffa3dab32faf1521632bd99)

Probably should make it curve the other way first?

And maybe finish the curve ;)

 :party: I think I'm getting the rotation and flip stuff now  ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg339.imageshack.us%2Fimg339%2F9817%2F53002440.jpg&hash=ab4e845316e44561077943839431926ed31766d8)

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
do you think you could do the second tile?

QuoteAnd maybe finish the curve

Ahh yes, I still have to do part 2 (see page 20)

Quotedo you think you could do the second tile?

That will be just elevating the next EMIS and just chance the IID in the RUL wouldn't it?

Should be, try it and have a go. :)

Well I managed to get the second tile in, it took me a while to realize that I had to flip the RHW2 turn instead of rotating it  ()testing()
I'm trying the diagonals now I wrote this code for the extension of the right turn (I think it's right but it doesn't work  ()what())

first the image of what did went right  ()stsfd()
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second the: "HELP" image  ;)
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diagonals are giving me a headache  ()sick()

Hmm... try this (for the top right one)

0x5DE0C500,0,0,0x5E000A00,2,0=0x5DE0C500,0,0,0x5DE1A500,1,0
0x5DE0C500,0,0,0x5E000A00,3,1=0x5DE0C500,0,0,0x5DE1A500,1,0

HEMISTrans0C S to E, diagonal RHW-2 W to N = HEMISTrans0C S to E, HEMISDiagonal1A W to N

And the bottom left

0x5E000A00,3,0,0x5DE1C500,0,1=0x5DE0A500,0,0,0x5DE1C500,0,1
0x5E000A00,2,1,0x5DE1C500,0,1=0x5DE0A500,0,0,0x5DE1C500,0,1

Diagonal RHW-2 E to N, HEMISTrans1C S to W = HEMISDiagonal0A E to N, HEMISTrans1C S to W

The second line for both code blocks are to catch any mirrored rotations of the diagonal RHW-2.

That should get it for all rotations. Now once we get this down we can start moving along the diagonal.

Thanks vince, I'll put in that code when I get homethis afternoon!

I see where I went wrong, I just don't know why I went wrong

My code (the wrong one)
Started whit the piece on the same rotation as it ended in the last code,
Your code (the one that does work  :thumbsup:)
Strats with the piece at rotation zero.
why is that? 

In my logic this would be the following code, but it isn't  ()what()

0x5de0c500,0,0,0x5e000a00,2,0=0x5de0c500,0,0,0x5de1a500,1,0
0x5de0c500,0,0,0x5e000a00,3,1=0x5de0c500,0,0,0x5de1a500,1,0
0x5de1a500,1,0,0x5e000a00,0,0=0x5de1a500,1,0,0x5de1c500,1,0

Ok, this is how far I got (thanks Vince! :)) I tried about very possible combination on rotation and flip there is for the next piece, but with no success   :'(

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please can someone give me another small (or big tutorial) on rotation and flip

Rotation: Rotation 0 is where the model/texture is currently as you see it in reader.
Rotation 1 rotates it once clockwise. So for instance, if we have a diagonal that goes from S to E, rotation 1 would make it W to S.
Rotation 2 is just 180 degrees from 0.
Rotation 3 is the inverse of 1 from 0.

Flip applies after the rotation is done, and flips horizontally
so <- flipped would be ->
and X\ flipped would be /X

The key in coding for diagonals is to see all situations. Take my code for bottom left example from above.

A RHW-2 diagonal at rotation 0 is /X
I need it to go E to N, which is \X
That would be 1 counterclockwise rotation, so it would be rotation 3 flip 0
However, if we rotate 180: X/
Then flip horizontally: \X
Results in rotation 2, flip 1.

The best way to visualize overrides is with a good ol pencil and paper, drawing a rough rep of the two textures/models in rotation 0. Then, draw them side by side (L-R). Then rotate them in your head until they line up or are a mirror (flip) of what you want. The flip can be one, none, or both, you'll just flip the one(s) that needs to be flipped. Take note of the rotation and flip, and code.

And don't forget that sometimes you just need to work backwards. That means drawing it as you want it and then figuring rotation and flip, and also writing code "backwards" like I did with my second bit of code.

EDIT: And also, remember the code works in all rotations of the same situation.

Thanks Vince!  I'll have a good look at this tomorrow, and put it in practice!

You also have to remember that the RULs are left to right, no matter what the texture is , the RUL is always looking for a texture to the right of another texture.

(I don't know the RHW IIDs off by heart and don't have access to the files, so I can't check your RULs, and if the following you already know, I'm sorry)

The texture on the left will always be the HEMIS
The texture on the right will always be the RHW-2
(maybe in a a rare circumstance this is will not be the case though)
0xTheLeftTexture,0,0,0xTheRightTexture,0,0=0xTheReplacingLeftTexture,0,0,0xTheReplacingRightTexture,0,0

The Left texture must always have (this is in override networks only btw)the road touching the right side of the tile. The Right texture must always have the road touching the left side of the tile.


In your situation you are looking for situations which match this:
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Because the diagonal tiles are symmetrical it will mean there will be more than 2 lines of RULs, even though it looks like only 2 lines will be needed.


For the lines I find complicated, I put the texture in paint (by just doing a print screen from the reader, all that is needed is a rough guide) Then clone and rotation by 90 degrees clockwise 3 times, to get all 4 rotations.
Then take each rotation one at a time, clone it and then flip it horizontally. That gives me all the possible rotations/flips of the texture.
Which I can the copy and match to get all the possible combinations, that are possible in game and therefore get the RULs.

This is an example of what I would to find the possible RULs for this texture(except I add the text and coloured rings just to show you exactly, normal it would be much less neater and just a quick job to work out the more complicated RULs, as doing that for each RUL would take for ever so after using that for a while you get used to it and can do it in your head):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi200.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa230%2FwarriorST%2FRHWexampleneat.png&hash=296c061c049b201f65f2e53da2439f7c85d73c23)

Pretty much what Vince said, except he can do it in his head :)

Jonathan

Sometimes, the texture to be overridden is on the left too ;) (and some cases, both)

And yes, I often just do the entire process in my head :P only the ones that stymie me are put down visually (or when I was new at this)

 ()stsfd() I think I'm getting it  :D

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thanks!!!!

QuoteI think I'm getting it

I get it!  ()stsfd() ;D

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 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Awesome!!!!

Underpasses now? :D

QuoteUnderpasses now? Cheesy

Bring it on!  ;D

I must say that this is more fun than I thought it would be! and ferry addictive  :D

ok for a ortho underpass I need a model of the underpass, lets say road. than I have write a override where it says
HEMISortho next to rhw2 over road  = HEMISortho next to HEMIS over road ??  or am I thinking to simpel now  :)

Nope, your not. Now you just have to find the IID of the RHW-2xRoad intersection. And of course make the proper model. (raise deck from E-MIS over road).

Regards,
Korot

Underpasses (well at least orth ones) are much simper than diagonals.
You are right in that you are looking for HEMIS orth next to RHW-2xRoad = HEMIS Orth next to HEMIS over Road.

The RHW-2xRoad is just a texture it is not a S3D

Jonathan

 ;D

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Wohoo! that wasn't that difficult!


PS. I screwed up elevating the orthoMIS that's why the barriers don't show, I'll fix that soon  :)

btw, you might want to use 00004b0a-e instead of 00004b00-4 in the material of the road on your Road underpass, this is the IID of the darkened road texture, so that the overpass blends in better with the road.

but that is just cosmetic and it doesn't really matter.

You should be able to pretty much copy and paste the RULs you made for Road underpass and use them for Street, OWR and Rail. But you'll have to add RULs for Road underpass next Street underpass etc.

Also you'll need to add RULs that allow you to place underpasses next to curves. If you haven't already.

Jonathan

Quoteyou might want to use 00004b0a-e instead of 00004b00-4

thanks for the tip, I just picked one  ;)

QuoteAlso you'll need to add RULs that allow you to place underpasses next to curves. If you haven't already.

You mean the curves in the HEMIS?

QuoteYou should be able to pretty much copy and paste the RULs you made for Road underpass and use them for Street, OWR and Rail. But you'll have to add RULs for Road underpass next Street underpass etc.

I will get in this tonight I think, shouldn't be that much work. one quick question and one less quicker.
First the quick one: The paths on the intersection pieces, how is that managed. I've been looking in the RHW dat. and I guess that it is some how group based, or am I missing something.

Second question, one that's more of an opinion, The columns of ERHW they look good on lower elevation, but I think on this 30m elevation the round ones I used look better (they should have a bigger radius though) I'd like to hear the opinions on that matter, because I'm going to remodel the ramp tonight as well, because it still needs allot of cosmetic work, and I thought lets do it right this time.
I hope you people give some feedback on this!  :)

-edit- Hmm didn't get to it, next week it will be than,  :(, I'll be away most of the weekend.

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WOW what's this??

ah, I may have been wrong about those IIDs, that multi coloured texture is like the big brown box when you have a building on a lot missing, except for textures. It means there are no textures with that IID in the mats section of the S3D.

Just stick with textures ending in 0-4.

ok, thanks.
on the rail texture I used 0x03031504 (the only ortho one on the list, or did I screw up?)

No that's correct for the Rail, can you post a picture of the mats tab showing the the rail texture?

Jonathan

Yep, here you go!  ;)

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in game, what happens if you zoom all the way in?

then it's the same! &mmm

I figured out what went wrong, I made a mess of the RUL  &ops!

For the transition ramp, I'm now thinking about not to model the ramp again, but to elevate the pieces that now make the EMIS ramps. That would make them line-up  perfectly with the rest of the network wouldn't it!?

QuoteFor the transition ramp, I'm now thinking about not to model the ramp again, but to elevate the pieces that now make the EMIS ramps. That would make them line-up  perfectly with the rest of the network wouldn't it!?

It would, but remember it would then be a EMIS to HEMIS ramp not a MIS to HEMIS ramp, but it doesn't really matter as you'd just have to place a MIS to EMIS ramp before. In fact it makes it more modular.

A EMIS to HEMIS ramp would look a bit odd don't you think? I't would more look like a roller-coaster than a highway!
I'm planning to elevate the pieces in the reader and make it one ramp, I think the best way is no take a pencil and paper and sketch it!   

A little progress update how do you guys like the new ramp!?
I putted him next to his little brother  ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F4055%2F12607437.jpg&hash=99feb196d9cb99406811bf9c31e74e183f985341)

I'll use the same line I used in the CityScape thread:

Yo, that's all sorts of epic.  Nice work!

Looks great, only the lines are on the wrong side. You just need to swap the UV Coordinates in the reader.

Jonathan

Quoteonly the lines are on the wrong side You just need to swap the UV Coordinates in the reader

I wanted to do that tonight!

Hmm, small problem when I swap the UV coordinates it turns the texture 90degrees ?? how do I flip it the full 180?

Got it!  ;D
just change the 1s in 0s and the 0s in 1s in the U tab!

I think I have RUL2 and flipping textures under control now  ;D

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Now let's get into the more difficult stuff
HEMIS over EMIS over RHW4
I think first one will have diagonal RHW4 with orthogonal EMIS and HEMIS.
Or am I pushing it to much now?
Questions about it, witch FSH crossing should I use in the RUL2

I think you are missing quite a lot overpasses. Maybe you should try HEMIS over ERHW-4, Monorail, El-rail, GLR, Maxis Highway (both ground and elevated), Avenue and OWR.

I guess your right, most of them will involve the same trick wouldn't they? except for the ERHW4 and EMIS passings they would involve creating a new model.

-edit- I'm rushing stuff again, one step at a time! ;)

hmm, some questions, How does the game know witch way the OWR goes when I drag RHW2 over it?
For elevated rail, monorail, and Highways(maxis) Do I use a plane with the texture or do I have to make a model?

I couldn't resist to do something else first  ;D

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Making the el-rail, monorail and highway models should be the same as the way you made the HEMIS over EMIS

I already thought so   :)
but I still don't know how the OWR works. I could just copy the existing RUL for the EMIS and just chance the numbers to revere them to HEMIS, but I rather write it myself and know how it works!  ;)

QuoteMaking the el-rail, monorail and highway models should be the same as the way you made the HEMIS over EMIS

hmm easier said than done. HEMIS over EMIS was quite easy since I already had the models to export from MAX. Where can I find the models of the Maxis stuff? I've been browsing trough SimCity_1 .dat but there's so much stuff, It would take me ages to get the right models. There must be an easier way.........

The OWR is exactly the same as road, street, rail etc.
All the directional stuff is done in the Paths.

The straight tile for the networks are: (you can find this out by looking in the texture viewer in the reader)
El-Rail: 08031500-4
Monorail: 0D031500 (note there is only the IID ending in 0)

For each network:
Take The highest zoom S3D (ends in 4 for El-rail but ends in 0 for monorail)
Right click it and select save decoded file (remember the filename)
Make a copy of your straight HEMIS.
Give this the IID of the underpass you are making.
In the S3D pane click Add S3D, and browse to the file you saved above.
This will combine the 2 S3Ds.
Make the neccesary exemplar etc.

Jonathan

QuoteThe straight tile for the networks are: (you can find this out by looking in the texture viewer in the reader)
El-Rail: 08031500-4
Monorail: 0D031500 (note there is only the IID ending in 0)

ahh I thought the texture viewer just showed the textures IID's not the IID's of the models, I wonder how I could have made that mistake  :D Thanks again Jonathan  :thumbsup:

It shows the textures of the previews which must be the same IID as the model.

So it is a little bit of a coincidence.

QuoteIt shows the textures of the previews which must be the same IID as the model.

So it is a little bit of a coincidence.

Now I really wonder how I missed that  &ops I know that..... when I read back a few pages
allot of info was kicking my brain the last few months, so I have to read back  "$Deal"$ sometimes. maybe I should do that more often, anyway thanks for bringing that again to my attention!  :thumbsup:

Hmm, I have some trouble with the elevated light rail overpass, everything works perfect except one texture doesn't show in game and it doesn't show in the reader?

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Well strangely that texture doesn't show up in the reader. But it should in game.

Can you post a picture of the textures settings?

Jonathan

Got it had to flip the plane! I was a bit confused that it didn't show in the reader!  ;D

I'm working on the opposite ramp, but I have some issues, for a start the preview model isn't showing and the stubs are wrong? I've updated the files on the NAM associated forum so you can check it out!

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Hmm, I used the same starterpiece as I used on the other ramp should I make a new one for this one??

Quote from: mtg on April 02, 2010, 12:36:42 PM
Hmm, I used the same starterpiece as I used on the other ramp should I make a new one for this one??

You don't need to.  The trick is to rotate the starter 180 degrees by changing the CheckType on the "false intersection". 

For example, if the cross network is set to 0x00010100 in your current rotation, 180 degrees away would be 0x01000001.  To rotate clockwise, just move each bit flag (two-digits) one position over to the right (0x00010100 becoming 0x00000101), and vice-versa for counter-clockwise (0x00010100 -> 0x01010000).

-Alex

I had this,

CheckType = a - Dirtroad: 0x02000200
CheckType = c - dirtroad: 0x02000200 onewayroad: 0x00010100, 0xffffffff optional
CheckType = b - Monorail: 0x00010100 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xffffffff optional

and chanced it to this

CheckType = a - Dirtroad: 0x02000200
CheckType = c - dirtroad: 0x02000200 onewayroad: 0x00000101, 0xffffffff optional
CheckType = b - Monorail: 0x00000101 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xffffffff optional

But now i've got a red arrow!?

Quote from: mtg on April 02, 2010, 11:33:47 PM
I had this,

CheckType = a - Dirtroad: 0x02000200
CheckType = c - dirtroad: 0x02000200 onewayroad: 0x00010100, 0xffffffff optional
CheckType = b - Monorail: 0x00010100 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xffffffff optional

and chanced it to this

CheckType = a - Dirtroad: 0x02000200
CheckType = c - dirtroad: 0x02000200 onewayroad: 0x00000101, 0xffffffff optional
CheckType = b - Monorail: 0x00000101 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xffffffff optional

But now i've got a red arrow!?

It looks like you only rotated it 90 degrees rather than 180.

Try this instead:

CheckType = a - dirtroad: 0x02000200
CheckType = c - dirtroad: 0x02000200 onewayroad: 0x01000001, 0xffffffff optional
CheckType = b - Monorail: 0x01000001 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xffffffff optional

That should do the trick.

-Alex

Thanks Alex it worked!

just a picture of the progress I'm making  :)

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Still have to do:
-Underpasses
Avenue
Maxis highways (not that anyone should use them any more but well let's get them in there anyway  ;))
EMIS
RHW6
RHW8
RHW10
ERHW4
All diagonal underpasses
All underpasses with 3 networks (p.e. HEMIS over EMIS over MIS)

-Most of the paths

-Wide radius curves

-Something I didn't think about, but you probably will tell me  ;)

-I'm also thinking about a transition that elevates to 30m and does a 90 degree turn over RHW4 (I hope you guys understand what I mean!?) but I need some new textures for that one I think! maybe that's a project that I will start around Christmas 2013  :D 

       

Quote
-Wide radius curves
..
-I'm also thinking about a transition that elevates to 30m and does a 90 degree turn over RHW4 (I hope you guys understand what I mean!?)

Sounds like a FLEXFly/WAVERide department thing ;)


Anyhoo, wow, brillant work! You've come really far :)

QuoteAnyhoo, wow, brillant work! You've come really far Smiley

Thanks, I did come far already! but still have a long, long way to go. And for some stuff I don't even know where to begin jet. Like the 3 network overpasses, witch RHW2IID should I use?

3 Network overpasses are multiple tiles and require compound overriding.
To help figure out whats what, draw an ortho RHW-2, then draw the other two RHW-2's crossing it in one spot. Then you'll see what'll be overriden into what.

wow
Your so fast :thumbsup:
You could probably rewrite the entire NAM :)

Though wait until you get to the underpasses which involve diagonals, that will probably slow you down a bit ;)

QuoteThough wait until you get to the underpasses which involve diagonals, that will probably slow you down a bit Wink

I think you're quite right! I was trying to do the ortho over road, and I can't find a S3D at least I think it's a S3D
5de22200 I think I need it? (looking at the RUL for EMIS)

hmm I guess diagonals are coded different? but how?  ()what()

No they are coded the same except the rotations and flips get complicated.
All networks that aren't flat use , so you are looking for an S3D.

Is there a logic involved in the ordering of the S3Ds in diagonal overpasses?
Because I can't find them  :'(

Quote from: mtg on April 06, 2010, 09:14:49 AM
Is there a logic involved in the ordering of the S3Ds in diagonal overpasses?
Because I can't find them  :'(

Many of the EMIS diagonal overpasses don't exist yet in the current Alpha Build.  They will in the next one.

-Alex

 &ops

I really thought they where in there! well at least I can stop searching for them  ;D
Let's create them  ;D Thanks Alex!

Hmm I'm a bit confused on the diagonals?
To be more specific confused with FSH I want to override in the ortho-HEMIS/diagonal-Road crossing.
Should I use the Maxis 0x00003900 or the RHW 0x5e003900 or the other RHW 0x5e003a00
To be honest I tried all of them with no result
Maybe it's in the Rul

;HEMIS over diagonal road
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e003a00,1,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de20520,3,1
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e003a00,1,0=0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5de20520,3,1
0x5de4b500,1,0,0x5e003a00,1,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de20520,3,1
0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5e003a00,1,0=0x5de4b500,3,0,0x5de20520,3,1
0x5de20520,3,1,0x5e003a00,3,0=0x5de20520,3,1,0x5de20519,3,1
0x5de20519,3,1,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de20519,3,1,0x5de4b500,1,0
0x5de20519,3,1,0x5e004b00,1,0=0x5de20519,3,1,0x5de4b500,3,0
0x5de20519,3,1,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de20519,3,1,0x5de4b500,1,0
0x5de20519,3,1,0x5e004b00,3,0=0x5de20519,3,1,0x5de4b500,3,0


Well something works  :)

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Although drawing the road from south-west to north-east doesn't work jet, and I think I have to try an other roadtexture in my model

success  ;D

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I must say diagonals are criminal!  ;D But I'm hanging in there. I managed to do the road, rail and avenue!
Some times I have to redraw the avenue though,to get rid of that out of order piece!. I bet you guys know how to fix this!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F3654%2F93175200.jpg&hash=c57f83fcc55565e8dc3dd01b00cf302ef4848817)

and after drawing the avenue again (+ the rail)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg353.imageshack.us%2Fimg353%2F904%2F31951156.jpg&hash=e0c83d91a6fb9762e2f23eee7dad7a072a435f5a)

I love this thread! It's really cool to see how rapidly you progress. Do you plan to release any of these networks as part of RHW 4.0 or the RHW 4.x series? Awesome work!  :thumbsup:

Thanks for the support noachlem. I hope everyone how visits this thread enjoys it!
This will not be included in RHW4.0 maybe in a successor! ( it still needs a s#*%t load of work  ;D) 

Hey all,

Just a sign that I'm still here  :). Couldn't do allot these day's because off RL.  :(

Wow. I just popped into this thread to see what was inside and I'm amazed to see all of this. The double-hight MIS progress really amazes me. I can now see how much work really goes into all of this stuff. I hope to see more soon. Nice work. &apls &apls &apls

:)

I have a question:
How do you customly transit-enable these models once you're done and incorparate them in game?
Thank you!

And by the way great HEMIS!

You'll have to path them in the reader, there's an instruction a view pages ago

Wow mtg great progress!
But I know its going to get dirty when you get HEMIS over EMIS over RHW, etc etc.

Good luck! ;D

EDIT: Is it draggable? And another long term idea: HEMIS over MIS FLEXFLY A over ?

Now just 45m RHEMIS (Really High Elevated MIS-or something) and we're on our way to stack interchanges :)

a diag 45m over diag 30m single tile puzzle piece (would go in the median of a (E)RHW-4S) [A]
diag 45m over ERHW-4 puzzle piecce [B/]
diag 30m over ERHW-4 puzzle piece [C]
diag 45m over RHW-4 puzzle piece [D]
diag 30m over RHW-4 puzzle piece [E]
45m to 15(0)m coversion(s) ramp(s) depending where the initial ramp started (0m/15m). [F]

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calumetgolfclub.com%2Fimages%2Fstack.png&hash=964351ff2cf71b7524381d9fce98f7cc2bd798cc)

should give the start to a basic 4 level stack interchange.  The ramps would have to be further away from the + intersection than in the picture (Wouldn't look that pretty but it would function). May have to read this thread about 10 more times and get to work :)

Actually, there's no need to go over 30m. We have 0m, 7.5m, 15m, 22.5m, and 30m networks planned. A full 4 way stack would only need 3 of those 4 heights.
I've actually done a fair bit of writing/drawing up layouts that are extensible, mostly draggable, and modular.

EDIT: FLEXFly will be extended to cover other heights as well, including other heights crossing other heights.

Nice to hear we'll be able to cross ground FLEXfly with 7.5m FLEXfly with the existing 15m FLEX fly and ARGH!!! *head hurts*
That's gotta be a bugger to make and I'm excited to hear it will happen so we can make these extravagant intersections in SC4.

5 different heights! Wow, I hope we don't run out of TGI's. ;)

I feel sorry for whoever makes HEMIS over MEMIS over EMIS FLEXFLY over SEMIS over RHW10. :D
--Nick

there's still alot to do yeah but we'll get there  ;)

I'm really looking forward to it!

I'm following this tutorial by swamper 77 on creating T21's but at this step when I press search the list remains empty ???

Quote- Locate the network lot that you wish to edit. This is easily done by loading the SimCity_1.dat file from the section labeled "SimCity DAT" in the left pane and opening the Exemplar Analyzer (magnifying glass with "EX" on it). Under "Filter", have only "21 Network Lots" selected. Close the Filter Dialog Window and click "Search". After a brief moment, you should have a list of items.

what am I doing wrong here??

nevermind got it. The left space has to be checked all. 

Hmm the tutorials on T21s all describe how to put T21s on existing transitnetworks. since my 30m MIS network is all new. How to I put T21s on it, well under it to be exact. I found the kolom I want to put under my network in the RHW Props dat so I don't have to create it my self I think. 

after some thinking and reading tutorials I came up with this, it doesn't work yet but I don't know what I'm doing wrong??

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F8632%2F13027210.jpg&hash=b7fb8d3befe9d4edbe14bbbfd686320174b8d10d)

 :wings: wohooo
Imageshack won't work with me tonight, but the t21's do!!!