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SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => BSC Place => Team Custom Content Projects => CAM - Colossus Addon Mod => Topic started by: RippleJet on May 01, 2007, 01:35:47 PM

Title: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 01, 2007, 01:35:47 PM
Not too many rumours should have been heard about the CAM up till now...
This is the first public announcement about what has been developed during the past 2 months.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg177.imageshack.us%2Fimg177%2F5493%2Fbsccamsv4.jpg&hash=2d1f465a08f69a35ed14cae278d85b16d147cb0b)

Development and upgrading in SC4 is based on stages, where each higher stage provides a denser population (occupancy) than any lower one. The percentual distribution between stages changes each time a certain capacity threshold is reached. There are three different capacities, and they are all regional:

Residential Capacity = Regional R$ + Regional R$$ + Regional R$$$
Commercial Capacity = Regional CS$ + Regional CS$$ + Regional CS$$$ + Regional CO$$ + Regional CO$$$
Industrial Capacity = Regional ID + Regional IM + Regional IHT

Residential and commercial development comprises eight stages, while industrial development comprises three stages.
The Colossus Addon Mod (CAM) extends these stages to 15 for residential and commercial development, and to 10 for industrial development.

In Rush Hour, R$, CS$, I-R and I-D were given thresholds that allow them to develop faster than the other RCI types. The graph below shows the percentual distribution between different stages of R$, based on the regional residential capacity. Once this capacity has reached 19,846, the ratio between the stages remains static:

R$ development in Rush Hour
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg354.imageshack.us%2Fimg354%2F8805%2Frmaxisdt0.jpg&hash=fd729b2d244118a90128d7b6ff2b1fdd79813527)

The CAM changes this rather radically. Development will be slower at start (the first threshold is at 800 instead of 300), but new stages will continue to come into play all the way up to a regional residential capacity of 3,085,020:

R$ development in CAM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg250.imageshack.us%2Fimg250%2F9822%2Frcamah0.jpg&hash=2be0165f03dc533e9419901038574fdef13a6e45)

The CAM changes the graphs for R$$, R$$$, CO$$ and CO$$$ in a similar way.

For Rush Hour, the last residential threshold is reached for R$$ and R$$$ at a regional residential capacity of 125,267.
With the CAM, the R$$ development keeps going from the first threshold of 900 to the last one at 3,469,411.
With the CAM, the R$$$ development keeps going from the first threshold of 1,000 to the last one at 3,856,275.

For Rush Hour, the last commercial office threshold is reached at a regional commercial capacity of 125,267.
With the CAM, the CO$$ development keeps going from the first thresholds of 400 to the last one at 1,540,469.
With the CAM, the CO$$$ development keeps going from the first thresholds of 500 to the last one at 1,925,586.

With commercial service, stage 1 is still rather predominant in Rush Hour, when the last threshold is reached at a regional commercial capacity of 19,846 (for CS$) or 125,267 (for CS$$ and CS$$$):

CS$$$ development in Rush Hour:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg50.imageshack.us%2Fimg50%2F9199%2Fcsmaxisqt0.jpg&hash=231dd68a1263b1048716221d286ced3e4d2cdbe9)

With the CAM, the CS$ development keeps going from the first threshold of 300 to the last one at 1,156,233.
With the CAM, the CS$$ development keeps going from the first threshold of 400 to the last one at 1,540,469.
With the CAM, the CS$$$ development keeps going from the first threshold of 500 to the last one at 1,925,586.

CS$$$ development in CAM:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg112.imageshack.us%2Fimg112%2F2336%2Fcscamkd2.jpg&hash=a2283fd351db439c91f54bd6540a355e42980025)

With industrials, stage 3 soon becomes very dominating in Rush Hour, when the last threshold is reached at a regional industrial capacity of 19,846 (for I-R and I-D) or 125,267 (for I-M and I-HT):

I-M development in Rush Hour:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg105.imageshack.us%2Fimg105%2F6708%2Fimmaxisev0.jpg&hash=6fab083c0005b109ad1d119340c5427a84deac98)

With the CAM, the I-D development keeps going from the first threshold of 200 to the last one at 771,885.
With the CAM, the I-M development keeps going from the first threshold of 300 to the last one at 1,156,233.
With the CAM, the I-HT development keeps going from the first threshold of 400 to the last one at 1,540,469.

I-M development in CAM:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg169.imageshack.us%2Fimg169%2F5586%2Fimcamob6.jpg&hash=fa3a1cb94611e629c19077751b4049e38fe35c3f)

Farming is the only RCI type in SC4 that doesn't upgrade. Thus, there is no reason to extend the number of farm stages in the same way as the others. Instead there will be some other innovations, which are still being developed.

With the CAM, several in-game lots are being corrected. Industrial capacity will generally be higher and the stage of some existing residential towers and commercial offices are being changed in order to better fit into a devlopment comprising all 15 stages. Virtually all existing stage 8 buildings will as such be incompatible with the CAM. They will all need to be relotted and remodded in order to achieve correct occupancies and correct stages.

The CAM will also enable really tall growable towers. I'll demonstrate that by showing the rough minimum heights required for a CO$$$ office in order to fit certain stages:


Stage 8:
107 m
Stage 9:
149 m
Stage 10:
195 m
Stage 11:
247 m
Stage 12:
308 m
Stage 13:
379 m
Stage 14:
466 m
Stage 15:   
571 m

The new stages will naturally also include buildings with higher capacities than we are used to seeing so far. In order to enable them to grow, the demand range might have to be extended (beta testing will see what will be needed). The picture below should tease you enough though:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F3976%2Fdemand20000rn1.jpg&hash=ef9ecb09a12f681e34b64374a319f8878cbd8c0a)

At the moment the CAM is being tested (Beta 3 is the latest version). Before getting any closer to a release date, the beta testing will have to go on for quite some time. Since we are talking about building up massive test regions (population in the millions), each testing phase is rather time consuming. Along with the testing, we are also making lots to fill out these, now empty, upper stages. You may have noticed the number of skyscraper prop packs that have appeared on the LEX. They are there for a purpose... ::)

For the beta testing we might be needing external help as well.
If you are interested, please tell us in this thread, and we might contact you by PM when the time has come.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 01, 2007, 01:47:04 PM
All donations oops volunteers considered. Please test this out as it seems to work but we do need more volunteers.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Filasimo on May 01, 2007, 01:59:44 PM
I am highly interested in testing this MOD and seeing its potential. Great work on this latest development and I do feel this will indeed extend the life of this ever so changing game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jplumbley on May 01, 2007, 02:03:01 PM
I will be around to help with the re-modding of all the lots need.  Glad to be a part of the crowd invovled in this!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Yoder7652 on May 01, 2007, 03:08:25 PM
very cool guys/gals, glad to see development of this moving forward...unfortunately, I do not have a generic city to test this on  &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 01, 2007, 03:27:23 PM
Quote from: Yoder7652 on May 01, 2007, 03:08:25 PM
very cool guys/gals, glad to see development of this moving forward...unfortunately, I do not have a generic city to test this on  &mmm

Actually, I would prefer if you could test it on an empty region. We need to see how the mod behaves through all the development phases from stage 1 to stage 15.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Yoder7652 on May 01, 2007, 03:31:25 PM
in that case, I'll see if I can start a test region in the next few days or so...I'll download the mod tonight!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 01, 2007, 03:33:00 PM
once this is complete is it relatively easy to extend this mod even further..... to say encompass really tall structures for say some futuristic megatowers???

edit, yes i had heard the rumours... and until i heard the rumours, was thinking of figuring out something very similiar
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sim Shady on May 01, 2007, 08:06:53 PM
wow...holy cow...this really is big.  Any idea how this affects out pluggins?  I if you need testers for this, i could help, although how much time would you need a tester to give to this and play sc4?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Tarkus on May 02, 2007, 01:53:37 AM
Wow . . .  this is an incredible project.  I rather like the name as well . . . CAM . . . it rhymes with NAM. :D

I'm looking forward to seeing more, and being somewhat of a statistics nerd at times, I rather enjoyed all those charts, RippleJet. ;)

-Alex
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jeronij on May 02, 2007, 02:00:46 AM
Great to see the project showing to light  :thumbsup:

There is a revolution on the way  ;D ¡¡¡

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on May 02, 2007, 02:18:32 AM
 :o What a super MODD it is !! :o
&apls Congratulations to starting a beta of CAM &apls

I hope it completes without any big problem, and come a day that open to the public early.  ::)
and
I can finally announce this good news to many Japanese Mayors too now. ;D
(The thing made secret was a painful thing.  :-[)


Good speed to CAM and great CAM's staffs. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: callagrafx on May 02, 2007, 02:22:37 AM
Colossus just about sums up the effect it will have on your game...it's what Maxis should have done but were too afraid to try  :D

With this, NAM, and the other Mods, who needs SC5?..we've already made it!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sim Shady on May 02, 2007, 03:16:59 PM
Amen Cal  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on May 02, 2007, 09:26:09 PM
I hadn't heard any rumours, but I noticed that there were a heck of alot of MEGA packs going out lately... So I suspected something major was in the works... I can see that this is probably going to make the game a fair whack harder - but a LOT more realistic. It's always bothered me that tall towers build so early on (btw, the CO$$$ heights look about right for a real city as the earliest you'd expect a building of a given height.

I realise this will mean I'll likely have to restart regions, but given how much more realistic they'll become, that's not as bad a sacrifice as it sounds.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 03, 2007, 02:05:12 AM
Quote from: mightygoose on May 01, 2007, 03:33:00 PM
once this is complete is it relatively easy to extend this mod even further..... to say encompass really tall structures for say some futuristic megatowers???

That wouldn't really be feasible or even possible. For residentials and commercials, the CAM deploys all available 15 stages.
Industrials could in theory be further extended from 10 to 15 stages. But would we really want to have industrial skyscrapers?

The first beta version of CAM did go higher up in population density, but that lead to impossible occupancy levels over 64K (65,536) in some cases.
Traffic will be an interesting and difficult enough problem to solve already with the occupancy levels included in this version of CAM.


Quote from: Sim Shady on May 01, 2007, 08:06:53 PM
wow...holy cow...this really is big.  Any idea how this affects out pluggins?

All lots released for the CAM will be clearly marked. Any lots made for stages above those included in Rush Hour will of course be useless without the CAM.
Virtually all current stage 8 buildings (residential and commercial offices) should not be used with the CAM. Instead new lots will be released for most of them (several skyscraper model/prop packs are already available in the LEX, and more will follow). These lots will assure that the development beyond stage 8 proceeds smoothly.

Many of the lots currently available on STEX for stages 1-8 have occupancies or stage settings that won't fit into a smooth development. For best performance, such lots should be avoided, both with Rush Hour and especially with the CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on May 03, 2007, 04:34:06 AM
As a retiree with more time than my wife would approve for SC4, I would like to join the testing squad. I spend a minimum of five hours a day now, with the present system, trying building schemes and zoning experiments. And as a retired civil engineer, I keep detailed notes on all of my cities and regions. That type of log may be of assistance to you. Please consider me for inclusion. Regardless, congratulations on taking that step up, Cal is right, the heck with SC5.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 07:29:36 AM
well what kind of occupancies are we looking at for stage 15 lots..... is it considerably past the 10,000 mark, if so how far....

EDIT: and furthermore when i am selecting a growth stage for a building i assume i can just enter numbers up to 15 instead of 8 and the game will deal with it accordingly when the mod is installed. is that correct?

oh and as a matter of fact increasing industry stages to about stage 6 is exactly what i would like to try and do, even if com/res cant/dont need to be pushed any higher....



sorry for not reading what you had written. i cannot wait to here more.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: FromTheAshes on May 03, 2007, 07:33:02 AM
Sorry for the silly question, I don't understand english that well. So, what exactly is this mod doing?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: scorer on May 03, 2007, 08:09:37 AM
@FromTheAshes: The CAM changes the way of growing cities in Simcity. In short, the density of cities will develop smoother and big skyscrapers will appear later in the game than they do now. Important details of most custom buildings have to be changed, like: How many people/workers will fit in a building? When will the building be appearing in a city? Because of this, most existing downloadable buildings will not be compatible with this mod. Unfortunate, but unavoidable.

@ripplejet: This mod is a great idea! If this will be non-beta, it will be another huge milestone in SC4-history. I have some experience in lotting/modding for personal usage, building lots and modifying custom content using the available tools since pre-RH times. Since I love "balancing" available stuff, I would like to help here, either through testing or by "refitting" buildings.

What kind of additional core data of the mod (occupancies for certain stages, etc) is already defined?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Andreas on May 03, 2007, 08:50:16 AM
(short explanation in German)

@FromTheAshes: Du hast ja sicher schon gemerkt, daß man große Wolkenkratzer nur bekommt, wenn man auch eine große Stadt bzw. Region hat; aber auch wenn man diese Voraussetzungen erfüllt, ist es sehr schwer, die wirklich ganz dicken BATs zu bekommen. Das liegt hauptsächlich daran, daß das Spiel Gebäude ab ca. 8.000 Einwohner nicht mehr so richtig "unterstützt". Der Mod von RippleJet setzt nun dieses Limit auf ca. 20.000 hoch und erweitert gleichzeitig die Anzahl der Stages von den originalen 8 auf 15. Das bedeutet, daß in Zukunft viel größere Gebäude bzw. Lots erstellt werden können, die dann auch noch problemlos wachsen. Gerade für Leute, die viel mit großen Städten spielen, wird dies eine echte Bereicherung sein. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Krio on May 03, 2007, 10:24:50 AM
Will you modify e.g all BSC lots and buildings for this mod? I would happy to make my buildings as CAM-buildings. Allthough I have only one skyscraper now.. :-\

RippleJet, could you explain more of this mod for me in Scandinavian support forum as Finnish because I have great intrest for this? Tehcnical english stuff isn't allways easy to understand   &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: freedo50 on May 03, 2007, 10:29:15 AM
I would love to test this! It sounds like a great new addition to the game, and it will probably end up being as infulential as the NAM is. I'm assuming one of the BSC team will contact me with info on where to get the d/l from. Also you mentioned watching out for stage 8's that will stop the correct flow of the mod; is there a way to find out which ones these are?

Fred
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: schooner2 on May 03, 2007, 11:00:15 AM
Wow, this is an incredible mod.  It will be alot of work to un-install all of the RES, CO and CS BATs and then re-install the CAM-compliant ones, however. Great work..nonetheless!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 03, 2007, 11:04:02 AM
Andreas, vielen Dank für deine genaue Erklärung! :thumbsup:


Quote from: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 07:29:36 AM
well what kind of occupancies are we looking at for stage 15 lots..... is it considerably past the 10,000 mark, if so how far....

Alongside with the development of the CAM, the formulas for calculating the occupancy in PIM have been revised. The outcome of this work will be published later in another thread. However, especially industrial buildings, with occupancies as suggested by Maxis PIM, will probably not fit in well with those buildings that are made for the CAM.

We have not yet settled for how large occupancies we will recommend as being the maximum. However, in any case we need to consider that all occupancy values, including any dilapidated values, need to be below 65,536 (64K).


Quote from: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 07:29:36 AM
EDIT: and furthermore when i am selecting a growth stage for a building i assume i can just enter numbers up to 15 instead of 8 and the game will deal with it accordingly when the mod is installed. is that correct?

In order for the development to function as intended, it is important that each higher stage has a denser population than each previous stage. Thus the stage is depending not only on the occupancy of the building, but also on the size of the lot. The higher the occupancy and the smaller the lot, the higher the stage will be.

The values in the table below show the recommendations on what population density (jobs/residents per tile) that will trigger each growth stage to be selected for the CAM.
The stage in the leftmost column should be selected, if the population density exceeds the corresponding value in the table:


Stage
   R$$$
     R$$
       R$
 CO$$$
   CO$$
 CS$$$
   CS$$
     CS$
   I-HT
     I-M
     I-D
 
2
0,9
1,7
3,4
4,0
4,8
4,0
8,0
16,0
7,5
6,3
5,0
3
1,3
2,5
5,0
6,5
7,8
7,0
14,0
28,0
12,2
10,2
8,1
4
2,0
4,0
8,0
10,5
12,6
10,2
20,3
40,6
19,1
15,9
12,7
5
4,3
8,5
17,0
19,0
22,8
13,3
26,7
53,4
28,9
24,0
19,2
6
14,0
22,5
36,8
45,0
54,0
16,8
33,6
67,3
42,1
35,1
28,1
7
35,9
51,6
74,5
90,0
108
21,2
42,4
84,7
59,4
49,5
39,6
8
74,4
105
149
142
170
26,7
53,4
107
80,9
67,4
53,9
9
125
176
249
198
237
33,6
67,3
135
106
88,6
70,9
10
177
250
354
259
311
42,4
84,7
169
135
112,5
90,0
11
231
327
463
328
393
53,4
107
214
12
288
407
575
408
490
67,3
135
269
13
346
489
692
503
604
84,7
169
339
14
406
574
812
618
741
107
214
427
15
468
662
937
757
908
135
269
538

You may still select a growth stage immediately above or below the suggested one, within a rather tight tolerance, eg. in order to fit several buildings belonging to the same family into the same stage.


Quote from: Bengt on May 03, 2007, 10:24:50 AM
Will you modify e.g all BSC lots and buildings for this mod?

The prime objective is to make sure there are enough lots available for all stages.
In due time, those that need to be modified for the CAM, may be modified.


Quote from: Bengt on May 03, 2007, 10:24:50 AMRippleJet, could you explain more of this mod for me in Scandinavian support forum as Finnish because I have great intrest for this? Tehcnical english stuff isn't allways easy to understand  :-\

Try to understand the numbers in here at least, and ask whatever additional questions you might have in the Scandinavian support forum ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: FromTheAshes on May 03, 2007, 11:24:36 AM
Thanks all for declarin it, now I understand! Great stuff... Are there many buildings that will NOT be compatible anymore, as scorer said?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 03, 2007, 11:34:03 AM
Yes, several industries and almost all existing stage 8 buildings.
They might still grow in the CAM, but they would make the development more difficult.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 03, 2007, 11:52:48 AM
I have two questions:

- 1 - Will the old lots be compatible with the CAM, even if avoidness would be preferable?

- 2 - Will it be possible to update those lots with, for instance, the reader or sc4tool without having to re-lot them again?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 03, 2007, 12:03:09 PM
Updating the lots could cause game crashes so it will be much better to save the lots under a new IID and then mod from there. Ri^pplejet has already hinted a new development so you would need to wait for that rather than guess at numbers anyway. The beta testers will know more about this.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 03, 2007, 12:07:22 PM
Thanks Barby :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 01:24:53 PM
thankyou very much, well looking at your table a CO$$ 6x6 base tower to be stage fifteen would need to have approximately 32688 jobs. this does answer my question. i do think there is one tower if the stage was altered would be appropriate. ATPX released a tower for R$$ with 8950 occupants.... on a 4x4 lot thus fitting in to stage fourteen of your chart, would i then assume thus that the only changes required for that lot would be to change the development stage of the lot to 14? or would other additional things need to be modded for it to work with the mod.

secondly. with the top end stage fifteen, is it similiar to current stage 8 in the fact that buildings with even higher densities than feasable can still be grown. such as KD5RAX's tapei lite with 16,000 CO$$ being possible to grow at stage 8, would for example my farpoint suites tower, 6x6 lot and 45,563 CO$$ jobs, meaning a job density of 1266 per tile, would that grow in the same way at stage 15, and if not would it remain undelapidated if plopped??
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on May 03, 2007, 01:51:29 PM
This looks like yet another project that is going to completely revolutionize this game! From what I could pick up, the CAM will be raising the populations of cities almost exponentially! I can't wait to see some more development with this. Fantastic work to RippleJet and everyone who is contributing to this!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 03, 2007, 02:14:50 PM
Quote from: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 01:24:53 PM
thankyou very much, well looking at your table a CO$$ 6x6 base tower to be stage fifteen would need to have approximately 32688 jobs. this does answer my question. i do think there is one tower if the stage was altered would be appropriate. ATPX released a tower for R$$ with 8950 occupants.... on a 4x4 lot thus fitting in to stage fourteen of your chart, would i then assume thus that the only changes required for that lot would be to change the development stage of the lot to 14? or would other additional things need to be modded for it to work with the mod.

As with all existing buildings that have been made by Maxis PIM, there are several properties that might have been given incredible values. In order to make a good CAM building, I would suggest to wait till we have the appropriate tool for making them, both for the building properties and for the lot stage.


Quote from: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 01:24:53 PM
secondly. with the top end stage fifteen, is it similiar to current stage 8 in the fact that buildings with even higher densities than feasable can still be grown. such as KD5RAX's tapei lite with 16,000 CO$$ being possible to grow at stage 8, would for example my farpoint suites tower, 6x6 lot and 45,563 CO$$ jobs, meaning a job density of 1266 per tile, would that grow in the same way at stage 15, and if not would it remain undelapidated if plopped??

This would depend on where we decide to put the maximum demand range. Beta testing is looking at this, but we are experiencing some issues if we go too high, so I doubt a growable building with 45,563 jobs would be possible.

The question about dilapidation is, as always, depending on supply and demand. Whether there is a need for 45,563 CO$$ jobs in one single block is a question that the CAM will neither help you with, nor make more difficult.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 03, 2007, 02:48:08 PM
thanks so there will be a specific tool/tutorial on how to make buildings CAM compatible. i would like to be included in the beta test if that is not a problem.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on May 03, 2007, 08:53:58 PM
QuoteWe have not yet settled for how large occupancies we will recommend as being the maximum. However, in any case we need to consider that all occupancy values, including any dilapidated values, need to be below 65,536 (64K).

Actually, it's 65535. The values range between 0 and 65535, which gives us 65536 values to work with.


This is a brilliant concept, though. I wish you the best of luck getting it working in a way that holds the most benefit for gameplay.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tommiej on May 05, 2007, 03:15:35 AM
this is a great new project!! i already heard somewhere that there were 15 stages, but maxis let the last 7 unused(just like the ANT)
So when this is released, to be used properly, all the buildings (growable) must be changed to be used with the CAM, because else the would mess up the growth. are plopables also affected by this mod?   
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 05, 2007, 03:27:51 AM
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on May 03, 2007, 08:53:58 PM
Actually, it's 65535. The values range between 0 and 65535, which gives us 65536 values to work with.

Yes, 65,535 is the highest value below 65,536 (which is 64K). :P


Quote from: tommiej on May 05, 2007, 03:15:35 AMare plopables also affected by this mod?

No, since only growables are bound to stages, ploppables will not be affected by the CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on May 06, 2007, 12:37:22 PM
How will this affect existing development - cities that already are full of what are currently stage 8 skyscrapers? Will this only be advisable to use on new cities?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 06, 2007, 03:51:36 PM
There will probably be issues with too many (and too large) existing stage 8 buildings and changed industrial capacities, but it's too early to tell yet.
Beta testing should reveal what recommendations we will have.

Currently we are testing Beta version 4, and concentrating on building up the regions from scratch.
Later tests will include using the CAM on existing, built-up regions.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on May 07, 2007, 06:26:42 AM
I(we) have simply question abou CAM. ()what()

Should I download many "Prop Packs" that has already been uploaded on LEX now?
"HKABT-NHP Dmscopio MEGA Props" , "ks_jpn MEGA Props" , "NDEX ITS MEGA Props" ,,,and more packs.
or
Is it brought together and the distribution schedule again of as "Prop Pack for CAM (for example name)"?

If we'll download these packs after open to publish the CAM,
It worries about the thing that the access concentrates with LEX. (huge load to server)  $%Grinno$%


Thank you. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 07, 2007, 08:07:59 AM
Mas71-san, these are the packs that will be used to make CAM lots. I am making a set of test lots with ks_jpn BATs for the Beta testers. These should be available later today. When lots are made with the other packs they can be downloaded as needed.
I have been testing this out and among the test lots I made was one for a Superstar BAT. I had it grow today and here is the query showing it is a stage 12 lot.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fdtdtage12.jpg&hash=cd6675544ff0a1d27596bc189ca2f8eae65b0d4e)

To date I have had no issues with the mod and have changed the demand dats without any problems after leaving a city to run for a month or so. The only "issue" was the demand graph initially looking odd but after a month it returned to what it should look like.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dedgren on May 07, 2007, 08:34:25 AM
Holy Batpoop, Batman!

Colossal hardly describes this...


David
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on May 07, 2007, 10:02:25 AM
@BarbyW
Thank you for your answer quickly :)
Ok,I see. ;)

I have a simply things that...
".SC4Desc" ".SC4Lot" are needs change properties for CAM. but ".SC4Model" is not need it.
so I should download only models "Prop Packs".

This is my selfish easily imagination. :-[
(The person thought that a burden might not depend on a server of LEX in the future. $%Grinno$%)


A making many LOTs for CAM, I understand well that It's too hardly work!! &dd
I waiting expectantly for completion a CAM while thanking you CAM's great makers!! :D


Thank you again BarbyW
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 07, 2007, 10:08:06 AM
so i am guess using ripplejets table... a stage 12 co$$ has 490 occupants per tile as a guideline.... so a 3x4 lot would have 5880 jobs. a 4x4 would have 7720, a 3x5 would have 7230, nad a 7x2 would have 6740, please can you tell me what lot size it is one so to give an estimate of the deviation margins from ripplejets figures that are possible within the system...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 07, 2007, 10:47:29 AM
It is a little more complex than that, mightygoose, and no further information can be given at this stage.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 07, 2007, 11:18:17 AM
ok
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on May 07, 2007, 12:11:26 PM
I'm struggling to follow the details of what's going on, but from the sounds of things, it seems to be going well. Keep up the great work, guys!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: freedo50 on May 07, 2007, 03:04:13 PM
Hey guys, Ive been playing a bit today with the CAM installed, but Im not sure Ive had any of the lots grow yet, will it be as clear as the example above on all the lots? Also, what kind of feedback do you want and do you want it over at the BSC boards rather than here?

Fred
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 07, 2007, 03:13:33 PM
The lots I have made I have changed the name to show the stage. I am just about to upload the next lots for you together with the edited other ones with the stage showing.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: freedo50 on May 07, 2007, 03:49:49 PM
Hi, thanks for the quick reply. Im having trouble getting onto the BSC site atm is there a reason for this or is it just my connection (again!) ?

Fred
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dedgren on May 07, 2007, 03:50:06 PM
QuoteHey guys, Ive been playing a bit today with the CAM installed...

First comes the jaw-dropper (barby's announcement this morning), now comes the name-dropper... FRED!  That was pretty shameless...

...Well, as I was sitting down to lunch earlier with Will Wright and Steve Jobs...

'hem, think of how the rest of us feel now.  That's okay, though, I've got Bill (Bill Gates, of course, but he told me to call him Bill) on hold and he was just following up on my recent Windows Vista purchase to see if I was satisfied...


David
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 07, 2007, 03:53:36 PM
I can't to BSC either so it looks as though it is down. You will have to wait until tomorrow if you don't have a link to the private LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 07, 2007, 04:29:28 PM
Quote from: freedo50 on May 07, 2007, 03:04:13 PM
Hey guys, Ive been playing a bit today with the CAM installed, but Im not sure Ive had any of the lots grow yet, will it be as clear as the example above on all the lots? Also, what kind of feedback do you want and do you want it over at the BSC boards rather than here?

Fred

Hi Fred, and all other CAM testers. I might as well post this here:

Included in the CAM are a number of relocated Maxis lots, so there are a number of stage 8+ lots already available.
Since all industrials are relocated and redistributed into stages 1...9, I would recommend the CAM Development thread over at our board for those.

R$ Stage 9:
Brown Hi-Rise, Impeccable, Large Tenement, and Feelgood on 3×3 lots
Bennet, Bunker, Long Tilt, New Beginnings, and Rock Bottom on 2×4 lots

R$ Stage 10:
Hamster, Bootstrap, Hope, Salvation, Simland Hi-Rise, and Tina's on 4×4 lots

R$$ Stage 9:
Jolly Manor, Simon Manor, The Pratt, Grossman Apartments, Graham Apartments, and Beigestone Hi-Rise on 2×3 lots
Hi-Rise Apartments, O'Hare Apartments, Ryan Apartments, and Zubecker's Hi-Rise Apt. on 2×4 lots
Copur Apartments, Reed Place, Tri-Tip Towers, and Wallace Manor on 3×4 lots
Leonid Apartment Complex, The Knight Building, The Wilkinson, and Zaidi Apartments on 4×4 lots

R$$ Stage 10:
Copur Apartments, Reed Place, Tri-Tip Towers, on Wallace Manor on 3×3 lots

R$$$ Stage 9:
The Long Building, The Hogan, Bilyk Towers, Bell Towers, and Colin Condos on 2×4 lots
Kauker Manor, Quigley Place, Sky Rise Deluxe Condos, and McCarthy Condos on 3×4 lots

R$$$ Stage 10:
McCormick Place, Twin Peak Towers, Byall Tower, Walkup Tower, and Ong Condos on 4×4 lots

CO$$ Stage 9:
Vu Financial, Chong Inc., and Lucky Lizards Loft on 4×4 lots
Fisk Insurance on 4×5 lots

CO$$ Stage 10:
Vu Financial, Chong Inc., and Lucky Lizards Loft on 3×4 lots
Fisk Insurance on 4×4 lots

CO$$ Stage 11:
McClellan Inc. on 4×4 lots and 4×5 lots
Calvin's Happy Place Plaza, and Waco Co. on 4×4 lots

CO$$$ Stage 9:
Wren Insurance on 2×3 lots

CO$$$ Stage 10:
Lind Entertainment, Van Prooijen Trading, Cahalene Communications, Hogan Wallace and White Incurance, and Hurt Enterprise Headquarters on 4×4 lots
Bank of America on 5×3 lots

CO$$$ Stage 11:
Pedriana Pharmaceuticals on 4×4 lots

CO$$$ Stage 12:
Bank of China Tower on 4×4 lots
John Hancock Center on 6×4 lots

CO$$$ Stage 13:
Chrysler Building on 4×4 lots

CO$$$ Stage 14:
Empire State Building on 8×4 lots

CS$$$ Stage 6:
Coit Tower on 3×3 lots

CS$$$ Stage 9:
Smith Tower on 3×3 lots

CS$$$ Stage 10:
Seafirst Tower on 6×6 lots

CS$$$ Stage 15:
CN Tower on 7×6 lots
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 07, 2007, 05:21:44 PM
that is some fascinating info, but surely the CN tower belongs in a lower stage, after all it has very few occupiable floors and this system is about density more than height....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Alarik on May 07, 2007, 11:52:26 PM
Quote from: mightygoose on May 07, 2007, 05:21:44 PM
that is some fascinating info, but surely the CN tower belongs in a lower stage, after all it has very few occupiable floors and this system is about density more than height....

I understand it is a combination of height, density and lot size. When taken those three values into consideration I can see the CN tower being a stage 15 lot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 08, 2007, 12:07:42 AM
Quotethis system is about density more than height

Who said it is? I told you it was more complex than you appear to believe and you will have to wait for testing to be completed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 08, 2007, 05:55:04 AM
well isnt the entire point of stages to be a graduated scale of urban density.... or thats how i always percieved it...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 08, 2007, 06:40:28 AM
Growth stage is a function of occupancy density, and occupancy is a function of building volume and floorage requirement (which is different for different types if RCI, and intergrated in the tool yet to be published).

Alarik pretty much nailed it down. The building height is included in the calculation of the occupancy, and the lot size is included in the calculation of the density.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 08, 2007, 10:08:45 AM
Well it works to stage 15 &apls

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fstage15.jpg&hash=e48a92bc9bc39af662cff71e4fbf6c0e811a5277)

The first Stage 15 I managed to grow. It is a CS§§
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on May 08, 2007, 10:29:31 AM
Wao! Really?? Have you already reached the stage 15!?
Bravo!  BarbyW  &apls

Opps...I wanted to take NO.1 $%Grinno$% (lol)

by the way,
At present, it goes well all.  :thumbsup:
(It have no problem with "Display of UI" "state of commuting" and "rebuilding",,,, etc ;))

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 08, 2007, 11:39:49 AM
great to here about the first stg15 being grown... thanks for the clarification ripplejet and others.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Indisguise on May 08, 2007, 09:36:56 PM
well I've already grown several stage 15's....most ones I remoded from NDEX..the first was in beginning of April...Pan Pacifica 20,000 CO$$$ was the first  "$Deal"$

I'll need to go through the models and remod the lots once the PIM-X is completed, as per public release ...until Sc4Mienster and DT get off their high horses I will be unable to relese the 200+ buildings I have done already for the CAM....but the Doozers are happy playing with them already... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 08, 2007, 11:37:05 PM
Indisguise, you can release the modded lots to the CAM Testers via the private exchange. That would give more variety for testing.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 09, 2007, 04:05:53 AM
it is good to see some numbers, pan pacific 20,000 CO$$$, was the first to grow.... well i would love to see somoe of the bigger stage 15's
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Zaphod on May 10, 2007, 01:40:31 PM
What kind of effect does this have on a already built city?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 11, 2007, 04:38:45 PM
Beta testing will have to show whatever effect it will have if used on existing, built-up cities/regions.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on May 12, 2007, 10:28:07 PM
Hope all is well with the project! Can't wait to see more development!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 13, 2007, 10:25:07 PM
Beta testing is proceeding, but it's too early to reveale any details yet. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Teddah on May 18, 2007, 01:50:58 PM
Wow, this is really impressive!  I have a few questions, though.

1) How will this mod affect performance?  I'm playing on a slightly dated computer (512 MB RAM and a 2.4Ghz P4), and it works very hard to run the game as it is.

2) Will there be adjustments to network capacities/speeds to account for higher densities?  It'd be great to have a row of buildings with thousands upon thousands of sims in each, but if one stage 15 totally overloads the surrounding transportation, that won't be very useful.

3) How will zoning be affected by this?  Will low-density R cover stages 1-6, medium cover 7-12, and high cover 13-15, or something similar?  Or will high density simply go 7-15?  It would be nice if I wanted to restrict some zones to say, stage 10 or lower, if I don't have room for/feel like putting in the services necessary for a stage 14 that might grow instead.  Though it seems that the very high stages could be restricted simply by making smaller zones; would this be an effective tactic?

I'm waiting somewhat patiently for the release of this mod.  It really is an amazing effort on the part of everyone involved. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 18, 2007, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: Teddah on May 18, 2007, 01:50:58 PM
1) How will this mod affect performance?  I'm playing on a slightly dated computer (512 MB RAM and a 2.4Ghz P4), and it works very hard to run the game as it is.

Performance is always dependent on the size of your region and your cities and on the content of your plugins folder. As such, the CAM will not affect performance, you are able to cram a city full with skyscrapers both with and without the CAM.


Quote from: Teddah on May 18, 2007, 01:50:58 PM
2) Will there be adjustments to network capacities/speeds to account for higher densities?  It'd be great to have a row of buildings with thousands upon thousands of sims in each, but if one stage 15 totally overloads the surrounding transportation, that won't be very useful.

Yes, a new NAM/CAM pathfinding has been developed and is being tested, with higher network speeds and capacities.


Quote from: Teddah on May 18, 2007, 01:50:58 PM
3) How will zoning be affected by this?  Will low-density R cover stages 1-6, medium cover 7-12, and high cover 13-15, or something similar?  Or will high density simply go 7-15?  It would be nice if I wanted to restrict some zones to say, stage 10 or lower, if I don't have room for/feel like putting in the services necessary for a stage 14 that might grow instead.  Though it seems that the very high stages could be restricted simply by making smaller zones; would this be an effective tactic?

The lower densities will remain unchanged. Thus, high density is required for stages 7-15.

However, there will be other ways of controlling where the CAMeLots (lots made for CAM's higher stages) will grow:


CAM - Stage Caps

The CAM is bringing two basically unused stage caps into use, the Park Cap (which in RH is used only for R$$$, set at stage 3), and the Fire Cap (which is unused in RH).

The park cap means that, in order to grow past the stage set, the lot has to be within 20 tiles of any kind of park.
The fire cap means that, in order to grow past the stage set, the lot has to be within the coverage area of a fire station.

The table below summarizes all stage caps that are available and used in the CAM.
If an RCI type is capped at a certain stage, it cannot surpass that stage without getting what is capped.


RCI       Power  Water  Park   Fire   Max.
Type      CapCapCapCapStage
R$  0  3  12    -  15
R$$  0  3    9  12  15
R$$$  0  0    3    9  15
CS$  0  3    -    -  15
CS$$  0  3  12    -  15
CS$$$  0  0    9  12  15
CO$$  0  3  12    -  15
CO$$$  0  0    9  12  15
I-R  0  3    6    4    7
I-D  0  1    -    5  10
I-M  0  1    -    5  10
I-HT  0  0    6    3  10
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 18, 2007, 05:12:46 PM
very interesting.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on May 18, 2007, 05:30:49 PM
Glad to see more progress coming along!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Teddah on May 18, 2007, 10:06:11 PM
Very good news!  Thanks for the quick reply!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bat on May 19, 2007, 01:24:38 AM
This is a great project! Also great to see some progress! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on May 26, 2007, 09:32:39 AM
CAM6 testing report for May 26,2007. Basic test setup: Standard Maxis content, CAM test lots, CAMeLot counter, NAM+Traffic_Plugin_Better_PathFinding_CAM_Beta03_Ped10, CAM Demand Range -300_+15000, Maxis Growable Landmarks, CAM WorkForceDrives_160%, ColossusAddonMod_Beta6, Census Repository Complete and Columbus Terrain (cosmetic mod).
Methodology: Four medium city tiles, 2 mixed development (RCI no Agriculture) 1 heavy industrial, no Agriculture, I heavy Agriculture.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F2497%2Fgrowthchartma2.th.jpg&hash=9ff9d651f566e0ab3c3c0d2e5372c8f4b9765976) (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=growthchartma2.jpg)
Census figures:(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F350%2Fcam62census70yrnr1.th.jpg&hash=c5b44a909b2691626ec56aaf629d45d3fb6c4a7e) (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam62census70yrnr1.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F7323%2Fcam62census56yrnq1.th.jpg&hash=8ef2e5b47a09215889a5606e3e6de49e13649cab) (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam62census56yrnq1.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F2084%2Fcam63census50yrie9.th.jpg&hash=7c75dde7cc2475097d1cf9f44e9a60362fb75311) (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam63census50yrie9.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F8093%2Fcam64census10yryy2.th.jpg&hash=6f5a36841130fc0a4c0c1f1398c5eb7bf579325f) (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam64census10yryy2.jpg)

Of the Maxis Landmark Growables, Coit Tower and Smith Tower were the only to appear. However, in large numbers. CAM6_1 had low growth, mainly due to non-inclusion of a critical file, once inserted, growth matches cities incorporated with the file in place. CAM6_4 was incorporated after stage 4 & 5 farms became available, so little time has advanced to properly observe. I will say,however, these farms are very good, with realistic detail and will be a must have when released. My style of play is normally midsized cities with seaports and rural (basically reflecting my home area) so building skyscraper cities is somewhat foreign to me, however, I really got into the swing of this. I believe that the basic player will truely enjoy the competitive edge CAM gives. Though I only have grown Stage 12 lots at this point, I really, really want to see a 15, so the drive to play has returned in a big way. I am patiently waiting for the word to play with custom content rather than vanilla Maxis, the possibilities there are mind boggling. Overall, I enjoyed this testing and look forward to more. To Ripplejet and all the CAM team  :thumbsup: &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 26, 2007, 10:53:05 AM
fascinating data... one question.... why is the total workforce demand 45,000 in all cases???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on May 26, 2007, 12:08:45 PM
I will have to let Ripplejet answer that for you, I am just a CAMster. I test run the various CAM setups and report.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on May 26, 2007, 12:40:39 PM
But, in the meantime, I have a few screenies laying about.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F6899%2Fcam63aug22511180146328km4.jpg&hash=dede1861d59bc7fbdc8d721b879c954439cd91bf)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F8882%2Fcam63mar24531180044648yl9.jpg&hash=b5d7e77d9154f007ce026432fcc7d100d565135e)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F8818%2Fcam63aug22511180146453nr3.jpg&hash=10dde392c25c74b5e500aab6d5c3c2b73b3e655b)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 26, 2007, 01:33:55 PM
Thank you Shoreman!
I am especially grateful for the graph you've made. Helps seeing how fast the development goes with the 160% workforce drives.


Quote from: mightygoose on May 26, 2007, 10:53:05 AM
fascinating data... one question.... why is the total workforce demand 45,000 in all cases???

The workforce demand is set by Maxis to be 3 times the maximum individual demand for different RCI types (which is 6,000). If you have used the Census Repository Facility (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=41&threadid=84816&enterthread=y), you may have noticed that the workforce demand soon gets up to a maximum value of 18,000, and stays there for the remainder of the game. In Shoreman's case, the maximum workforce demand is 3 × 15,000 = 45,000.

We have been using different extended demand ranges throughout the beta testing. The picture in the first post shows a demand range of ±20,000. The early beta versions also had a ±12,000 demand range. The first assymmetric demand range we tested was -3,000 to +9,000. Beta 6 had two demand ranges, -3,000 to +15,000 (which is the one Shoreman has been using) and -6,000 to +24,000 (which is the only one that will remain in Beta version 7).

The reason we need to include an extended demand range, is to enable the highest stage buildings to grow. With Maxis default demand range of ±6,000 you will hardly be able to grow anything bigger than 9,000-10,000 inhabitants/workers.

Every time the demand range has been extended we have been facing demand problems, especially early in the game, when there is only one city in an empty region. These problems have been smoothed out by carefully modding the workforce drives (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=963.0). Beta 6 has been concentrating on a mod that increases the workforce drives to 160% for all wealth/education levels, instead of 148%-149% by Maxis.

CAM Beta 7 will see a modified version of this, where low wealth/education will give an increased drive (up to 170%), whereas high wealth/education will give a smaller drive (down to 140%). We don't want to make the start of a new region too difficult, and we also do not want to have the development exploding when you get higher up in education and wealth, which has especially been seen in Mas'71's experiments with large dilapidating R$$$/CO$$$ cities.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 27, 2007, 01:15:13 AM
thank you for the informative answer... so you are saying you are gradually pushing the demand limit up wish each beta to take into account early stage developement speed issues.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 27, 2007, 02:50:14 AM
In my early testing of Beta7 today I had one stage 7 farm grow. I shall return to this region later once I have adjusted some stats on my beta stage 4-7 farms. This city only has farms and residentials at the moment.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fstage7OCH.jpg&hash=8dc2e6eb5e29a3be848a1c33f7ea654654c6a3a1)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 29, 2007, 02:17:22 AM
I have been making more stage 4-7 farms for testing purposes and developing farming only cities. During discussions about these higher stage farms we decided that the stage 6 and 7 should be a different and a bit specialised. Stage 6 at the moment are park/woodland type farms and stage 7 are historical sites. So what to use as the buildings? Well initially the Maxis landmarks have been made into farms for stage 7 and today I had two grow in a newly developed agricultural city. I have used gshmails' radical Black Hole lots for power, water and garbage as I am testing the growth of the higher stage farms. The city only has agricultural and residential zoning but I have accepted some of the BSC farming rewards to give some CS jobs. The only services provided are fire stations and clinics.

An overview of the city. As you can see there is still scope for new zones.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2FStonehenge.jpg&hash=0bf47782b75749c41661c2c8295f0895f056ee73)

The first of the Maxis landmarks to grow as a farm is the Great Pyramid. It looks a bit odd among the rest of the farms ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fpyramid2.jpg&hash=99f2639c116866a40c775481d5e77ba41f2538d1)

The second to grow - the Sphynx. It needs to have its fields changed to a sand field ;)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fsphynx.jpg&hash=20e3388439de32ba473d4ba09999a8ce5e8673ac)

There are other historical sites in the city but these are the most obvious.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2007, 03:10:00 AM
Great news Barby!
I'll fill in with some more technical background for the farming in CAM.

Stages 1-3 will all be enabled right from the beginning, giving a much greater variety of farms, and with a percentual ratio of 50/30/20.
With the CAM you will never have the situation where stage 3 takes over almmost completely with 70%, and only Pedriana plants growing as is the case with unmodded SC4.

Stage 4, which will be water capped, will in CAM start to grow as soon as the regional industrial capacity (regional ID+IM+IHT) surpasses 500.
Stage 5, which will be fire capped, will in CAM start to grow as soon as the regional industrial capacity (regional ID+IM+IHT) surpasses 5,000.
At that stage all five farm stages have an equal, 20%, chance of growing.

Stage 6, woodland preserves, is set to grow when the regional industrial capacity surpasses 50,000.
These are set to grow with a chance of only 5%, and will provide some other benefits in addition to providing a decreasing number of farming jobs.

Stage 7, historical landmarks, is in Beta 7 (for testing purposes) set to grow as normal farms when the regional industrial capacity surpasses 100,000.
In the final release these are meant to be much harder to get, with a threshold of maybe 500,000, and a chance to grow of only 1%.
Albeit still growing as farms, these are indeed planned to be like landmarks, providing mayor rating, and residential and/or commercial desirability factors.
They will also have a higher building value, providing more tax income than ordinary farms, and they will also be considerably more expensive to bulldoze.

Stage 7 "farms" are intended as a drive for metropolis builders to continue farming their outskirts, hoping for a chance to have the occasional landmark growing on its own.
Since they are still farms, you will never be able to have them growing in the commercial downtown, they would only be growing in the uneducated silent outskirts of a metropolis.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 29, 2007, 04:22:52 AM
A new city and some more pictures. First the Census Information:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Flansmarkcensus.jpg&hash=4b1a818aba9f0ed2fd9d088e28575e2db8868119)

The CAMeLots in the city:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2FlansmarksCAMelots.jpg&hash=9901075d275ed5ac1c8b6f855f0ed48760c9aae0)

Overview of part of the city:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2FLansmarkton.jpg&hash=b805e39c6ad713ea780845e0d6fe734e75121a0d)

And a new landmark - the Parthenon growing amid olive groves.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fparthenon.jpg&hash=7fe039286dcd6011dfe54a0b31719cc7153dc9b0)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2007, 08:56:20 AM
i think this will create a whole host of new scope for ruins and old castles, old monasteries.... country estates. now they will be much harder to obtain if used in this way. fantastic.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: callagrafx on May 29, 2007, 09:03:08 AM
But which poor sod is going to BAT the 100,000 slaves and Egyptians with massive, massive whips for the construction phase of the Pyramids?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2007, 09:45:12 AM
hmmm its so crazy its tempting....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on May 29, 2007, 10:03:05 AM
Hi all ;)
I hava report of my cities with CAM(Beta7).
I tried to make a "Skyscraper" with R$ and C$ buildings at medium Map.

<Files I used and other MODD>
+ColossusAddonMod_Beta7.dat  (demand -6,000 to +240,000)
+CAM_Maxis_Growable_Landmarks.dat
+CAM_5%_R$$_Working_in_CS$_IR_and_ID.dat
+NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_CAM_Betav03_Ped10.dat
and few Test Lots for CAM

-MODD and Othres-
+NAM with original pathfinding fo CAM.
+Radical Ordinance V2.0 by ralphaelninja ---- used ordinances only about "Power", "Water" and "Waste".
+Some high capacity "Hospital LOTs" and "School LOTs" by NOB (http://www1.megaegg.ne.jp/~tokitoko/) san's



At first,
I made 5 cities connected as follows. (1 meddium MAP and  4 small surrounding maps.)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F9618%2Fcam07test0001dp5.jpg&hash=c461154430d686aea39672ac3c844b2166c7369a)


- 1st year to 30 years -
It begins and the city has grown up comparatively slowly until 30 years.
and  The CS$$ building of stage 8 appeared for the first time.  ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F4325%2Fcam07rc30ct1.jpg&hash=6868c460ae1b8b9d44c97c09c44c56d4c3648499)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F6417%2Fcam07cap30cx5.gif&hash=8b51bc990dfa4bd3bfe685fa60c05d5205507c58)



- 31 year to 60 years -
This period built in succession the buildings in an over 8 stage and queued up.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F8663%2Fcam07rc60rq8.jpg&hash=ee01a558ea7264ca75abdb6646c2ca2106705680)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F8750%2Fcam07drive60ub6.gif&hash=ad69b8b3ecb074c9fcce3d972f056413e08dde29)



- 80 years -
The growth of a recent city has advanced an explosive speed!! :o
however, It had big problems in this city.
These are "Garbage Polution" and "Electricity shortage". &mmm
The problem attacked a hardly the city without mercy though it used "Ordinance MODD".
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F818%2Fcam07rc100si4.jpg&hash=83f14b9ac8cfda8093c88ea081daf4246acb7d8a)
I had to make the city for further one "Supply of the electric power" and "Disposal of Garbege".
A Buildings that over stage 8 are consumes a large amount of electric power, and appears one after another huge garbage.
(These set values are set by a temporary numerical value. )
I thought that I had to review these settings in CAMelots. ???



- to 125 years -
A lot of buildings have gone to devastated because of the electricity shortage and garbage.
It needed years of about 30 years by the time the demand balance of the city was greatly driven mad, and it was steady.

I have not looked at the building of stage 15 in this city yet. :P
However, it is built certainly here a lot of high stage's CO$,CS$,R$ buildings (Stage 11,12,13,14).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F9444%2Fcam07rc125nh8.jpg&hash=59946528cdee99053d8e5da42b93d2baa9d42919)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F1395%2Fcam07drive125rc2.gif&hash=656c0bc4aa31de43c1e586d9c49e6f71756e95f4)





By the way,
I was able to see I$-R LOT in a high stage on the other one agricultural city. :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg260.imageshack.us%2Fimg260%2F617%2Fcam07ir60oz2.jpg&hash=738133ca5b4c7dd2a8ee48125d571b98b957aa92)
(Thank you Barby san for your unique test-LOTs ;))




however,
I have a little doubts in the demand for agriculture and the development of agriculture.  ()what()
I want to test it a little more.  ;)


Thank you for reading.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Zaphod on May 29, 2007, 10:57:55 AM
Too cool

I wonder what this could do for high stage residential development. Arcos? And even on the lower end of the spectrum, fancy condos and urban 'McMansions' on 2*1 low density lots anyone?




QuoteBut which poor sod is going to BAT the 100,000 slaves and Egyptians with massive, massive whips for the construction phase of the Pyramids?

A BAT slave of course... With barbyw holding the whip

:D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 29, 2007, 12:41:52 PM
zaphod: you have been lurking at Peg's ;D I have put my whip away these days.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2007, 03:14:13 PM
Thank you for an extensive report, Mas-san!


Quote from: MAS71 on May 29, 2007, 10:03:05 AM
I have not looked at the building of stage 15 in this city yet. :P
However, it is built certainly here a lot of high stage's CO$,CS$,R$ buildings (Stage 11,12,13,14).


Since a lot of the interest around the CAM is about those stage 15 buildings, I'll show you the percentual chance that these will grow, depending on the regional thresholds:


The thresholds for the residential stages is the regional residential capacity:


Stage 15 Occurrence
1%
2%
4%
7%
9%
R$
    1,263,624
    1,579,530
    1,974,413
    2,468,016
    3,085,020
R$$
1,421,070
1,776,338
2,220,423
2,775,529
3,469,411
R$$$
1,579,530
1,974,413
2,468,016
3,085,020
3,856,275


The thresholds for the commercial office stages is the total regional commercial (CS+CO) capacity:


Stage 15 Occurrence
1%
2%
4%
7%
9%
CO$$
630,976
788,720
985,900
1,232,375
1,540,469
CO$$$
       788,720
       985,900
    1,232,375
    1,540,469
    1,925,586


The thresholds for the commercial service stages is also the total regional commercial (CS+CO) capacity:


Stage 15 Occurrence
1%
2%
2%
2%
3%
CS$
473,593
591,991
739,989
924,986
1,156,233
CS$$
630,976
788,720
985,900
1,232,375
1,540,469
CS$$$
       788,720
       985,900
    1,232,375
    1,540,469
    1,925,586


Looking at Mas71's regional capacities (second column from the right in the last Census Repository Facility query), we notice that:

1. The regional residential capacity is 1,616,810
    Thus:
    - the chance for a stage 15 R$ to appear whenever an R$ building is growing is 2% (threshold 1,579,530)
    - the chance for a stage 15 R$$ to appear whenever an R$$ building is growing is 1% (threshold 1,421,070)
    - the chance for a stage 15 R$$$ to appear whenever an R$$$ building is growing is 1% (threshold 1,579,530)

2. The regional commercial capacity is 593,437
    Thus:
    - CO$$, CO$$$, CS$$ ans CS$$$ buildings won't appear yet (capacity below the 1% threshold)
    - the chance for a stage 15 CS$ to appear whenever a CS$ building is growing is 2% (threshold 591,991)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2007, 04:30:16 PM
i think i am starting to get the hang of all this.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on May 29, 2007, 06:42:49 PM
I just wanted to stop by and show off the sig Calligrafx designed for CAM testers.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on May 30, 2007, 12:29:29 AM
Thank you Ripplejet san for a polite very comprehensible explanation ;)

I think that this is really wonderful MODD :o
It is not limited to existence of "Over stage-8" alone. :thumbsup:

I am wishing it to be completed early. :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 30, 2007, 12:35:38 AM
Quote from: mightygoose on May 29, 2007, 04:30:16 PM
i think i am starting to get the hang of all this.

Then you are doing better than I am and I'm testing it ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 03, 2007, 05:30:47 PM
Hi everyone :)

" I'm tired very much....... "
His the word was left, and turn one's back to to the mayor room.
Afterwards, nobody knows where he has gone.
There was only a skyscraper that shone by dazzling there.
-fin
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg353.imageshack.us%2Fimg353%2F204%2Fcam07testtw6.jpg&hash=73fca3635b970230299d3a63f1237fd8783945c0)


Apparently, I seem to have been deserted by the God of SIMCITY. :-[
My cities were grow up very huge. They reached even 15 cities.
however, I coudl not have ever seen buildings of stage-15(R$, CO$) :-[
and there has gone mad.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg353.imageshack.us%2Fimg353%2F3946%2Fimage1mo9.gif&hash=51eb5bec37d2ba3d887a1eeb0580ae00fcce9838)

I had waite then with made much of zone "C$ 4x8" for "E.S.Building" long time.(LOTs of stage-15 CO$$$)
but He never showed up in front of me.  :bomb: (LOL)


Ok,
I end the citiy making for the time being once now.
and I'll begin a making a CAM's city again with a New-NAM. ;)
by the way,
Is a file "NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_CAM_Betav03_Pedxx.dat" divert with New-NAM?
Could I use these files with New-NAM??


Thank you ;)


####### Edited #######
@Andreas
Thank you for answer quickly ;)
Ok, I'll chenge these files of CAM for "Traffic Controller" of New-NAM :thumbsup:
and I continue the Test of CAM.
Thank you again Andreas ;)
(before, Thank you very much for sharing a New-NAM!! I already announced the information about it at once. ;))


@Ripplejet
For a Beta test CAM.
At this stage, are there the points to observe in particular on the CAM?
What should I watch closely to CAM after this?
Give me some homework please ;)(lol)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Andreas on June 03, 2007, 05:37:01 PM
Quote from: MAS71 on June 03, 2007, 05:30:47 PM
Is a file "NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_CAM_Betav03_Pedxx.dat" divert with New-NAM?
Could I use these files with New-NAM??

Yes, it should still work. Just make sure to delete the default traffic plugin that gets installed by the NAM installer.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on June 03, 2007, 05:57:23 PM
great new shots from beta7, most interested at the 3 month and 1 year projections for commercial. is that saying by the end of game year there will be demand for 37000 new jobs regionwide or citywide. if so isnt that alot for one years growth....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 04, 2007, 05:35:26 AM
Quote from: mightygoose on June 03, 2007, 05:57:23 PM
great new shots from beta7, most interested at the 3 month and 1 year projections for commercial. is that saying by the end of game year there will be demand for 37000 new jobs regionwide or citywide. if so isnt that alot for one years growth....

You should download the Census Repository Facility (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=41&threadid=84816&enterthread=y) and try it out yourself, mightygoose.

If you hover above those columns in the query, you would have known that those columns are not showing demand, they are showing the actual change in capacity this city has seen over the past 3 months and 12 months respectively. Obviously Masuda-san's city is still growing, albeit a little slower the last 3 months.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on June 04, 2007, 08:58:30 AM
oh i think i will. so its a past not future display. i thought it was a prediction.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 04, 2007, 09:08:39 AM
@Mightygoose
Oh ! I see :P
Sorry, I could not reply quickly cause It could not translate(for JPN) well $%Grinno$%
Yes, These numbers show the history(pasted). 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on June 04, 2007, 05:46:33 PM
JMyers Plays the CAM – a report

I've been using a 3X3 grid - all large cities for my CAM test region (see below). There are mountainous areas, rolling hills, and relatively flat land. Seven cities are suitable for farming. I would normally go into the mountain cities and place farms along the valleys if I were playing for fun. Speed is important when testing so I am going to skip past the right hand upper and lower corners and move to my big city which is in the middle of it all. I've already played the middle city a while and have enough farmland to have been offered the State Fair reward. 

Good news for Sim Farmers. 

This is cool. Those who play rural country side will not be disappointed by the CAM. The most noticeable difference between the CAM and Rush Hour is the variety of farms. You'll recognize this Rush Hour scenario. Start a new region and some stage 1 farms grow. A small number of stage 2 farms will grow.  Then you get to a point where stage 3 farms will grow 70% of the time. I've dealt with this in the past by loading up my plugins with a lot of stage 3 farms for variety. The down side is that some farm buildings grow nicely at the beginning of the region then virtually disappear until you begin a new region. That was Rush Hour. The CAM makes all stage 1 through 3 farms grow equally. My country side has sooooo much variety. Plus some pesky farms grow reasonably. 

Secondly we now have some control of what grows where. Stage 1 through 3 farms will grow anywhere from the start. But one must provide water and have a small amount of easily achievable industrial capacity to grow a stage 4 farm. Water you say? Some of SimGoobers irrigation canal pieces provide water. This means that they now have purpose and are not just eye candy.  And I also dot my country side with Deadwoods wind mill water pumps in the hopes of growing stage 4 farms.

More control. I've done some bats (coming soon to the LEX) of some high tech hydroponic greenhouses. During this testing period I've made them grow as a stage 5 farm.  One must have a regional industrial demand over 5,000 and fire protection for a stage 5 farm to grow. I can now cluster some specialized farm buildings. This opens up the possibility of growing some oil fields on a flat piece of land over in a corner or near my small rural town? How about growing some Catfish ponds on a small spot of land near a stream or by the lake? All I need are the right conditions. That is some of the thinking on my part as I've been playing and testing.

I've not had a stage 6 farm to grow yet. I need more population and I'm not there yet in my region. Stage 6 farm land is specialized. Most likely woodland preserves.

There is still work to do. As we play we find things and Tage makes some tweaks. It is a long process. It took one week for me to develop the region you see below and I'm not done yet. I now need to build up my big city and then go back to see what affect that has on the smaller outlying rural towns. Ta.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2Fcam20.jpg&hash=b4339b9a5f5a8ab4c06dcbf759633674276c4603)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on June 04, 2007, 05:53:52 PM
that is one awesome region jmyers, this news on farming may turn me into a counrty boy... ive never liked farms before but this new modding sure does make them sound appealing....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 05, 2007, 07:56:08 AM
Quote from: MAS71 on June 03, 2007, 05:30:47 PM
@Ripplejet
For a Beta test CAM.
At this stage, are there the points to observe in particular on the CAM?
What should I watch closely to CAM after this?
Give me some homework please ;)(lol)

Nice development, Masuda-san!

One request for you to check as homework! :D

Since CO$$$ seems to have grown pretty well, resulting in a negative demand of -6,000 at the moment, I would ask you to bulldoze several blocks of CO$$$ buildings in this city, providing at least 100,000 jobs (yes, I know, horrible thought, but you will not have to save the city afterwards). Try not to bulldoze any residential buildings.

In those empty areas I would ask you to zone large commercial blocks, sized 10×10.
Within each block I want you to zone four lots, each with the size 5×5.

Let the game run and watch the CO$$$ demand go up to +24,000.
That should hopefully trigger some WTC towers of stage 15 to appear...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 05, 2007, 08:41:40 AM
Yes sir teacher!! :thumbsup: (LOL)

It is totally homework just like a "Japanese bad politician with wasteful habits". hehehe. $%Grinno$%
Ok, I'll do it for a justice of sims wtatch a Stage15 buildings !! :thumbsup:





##### Edited #####

Yes!! I got it !! ;D
I was able to see the building of the wish at last !! :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F1130%2Fimage0gj1.jpg&hash=27461aa354b6db3ba14ce612563193ef46744a1f)
Do you able to see Co$$$-Stage15 "W.T.C by rubik3" on left and Cs$$$-Stage15 "Najd Tower by ks_JPN" on right. :D

At last, my long journey is finished. :-[
and my homework too ;D

My life might have changed greatly if I did homework hard like this time when I was a student. $%Grinno$%

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 07, 2007, 12:22:15 AM
Quote from: MAS71 on June 05, 2007, 08:41:40 AM
My life might have changed greatly if it did homework hard like this when it was a student. $%Grinno$%

:D
Thank you Masuda-san!
This was one of the most critical tests. The WTC holds 19,287 CO$$$ workers and would never have grown without the CAM :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on June 07, 2007, 03:23:18 AM
Congratulations MAS71.  &apls &apls I just knew you would grow it first.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 07, 2007, 03:36:28 AM
@Ripplejet san
Quote from: RipplejetThe WTC holds 19,287 CO$$$ workers and would never have grown without the CAM
Without CAM?
Should I open this map(city) again after delete only a "ColossusAddonMod_Beta7.dat" in my Plugins ?
I'm sorry. It my big misreading,,,, :P



@shoreman905 san
Thank you for your warm word!! ;)
however,  Because I gave priority to only development of cities, so these ere very simple and became a very dull cities. :-[

I already could able to see these skyscrapers!!
so on next stage, I want to see(listen a voices) a pleased and surprised of many public SC4 users early!!  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on June 07, 2007, 03:48:59 AM
Jim, that screenshot speaks volumes. It looks like REAL farmland!  :o
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 07, 2007, 04:43:32 AM
Quote from: MAS71 on June 07, 2007, 03:36:28 AM
Without CAM?
Should I open this map(city) again after delete only a "ColossusAddonMod_Beta7.dat" in my Plugins ?

No, if you play without the CAM, the WTC Tower would never grow ;)

Those garbage problems you had earlier, Mas-san, were all the result of lots made by Maxis PIM. They were unchanged for the CAMeLots made for the Beta testing.
Now, when Wouanagaine's PIM-X is almost finished, all those lots are being updated and prepared for public release, with all properties (occupancy, garbage pollution and water consumption in particular) being in line with those values Maxis originally intended to use, but which were not implemented correctly in their PIM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 07, 2007, 06:57:37 AM
ahahaha....I'm sorry to my misreading again $%Grinno$%
I don't kinow why I had reading like this... $%Grinno$%
I hate my misreading :bomb:

by the way.
I want to announce to Japanese BATers how to make CAMelot by Wouanagaine's PIM-X early ;)
Please guid and give me(us) a tutrial of it to public when a time will come ;)


Thank you Ripplejet san!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wouanagaine on June 07, 2007, 07:00:05 AM
I will be honored to give a proper readme / tuto for PIM-X to you MAS san so the whole japanase community can produce CAMeLots. I just need to finish the tool and make the readme ( this is the hardest part of the job )
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 07, 2007, 03:09:19 PM
Thank you Wouanagaine san ;)

Quote from: WouanagaineI just need to finish the tool and make the readme ( this is the hardest part of the job )
I'm so sorry :-[

but these your effort and contribution will make us hapiness all of the world !! :D
Your this great tool PIM-X which included CAM, It's will be called "SimCity 4.9"  :thumbsup: &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on June 07, 2007, 06:02:11 PM
 :D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rickmastfan67 on June 07, 2007, 09:03:58 PM
Wow, this is some crazy stuff!!!  I can't wait for it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: callagrafx on June 09, 2007, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: wouanagaine on June 07, 2007, 07:00:05 AM
I just need to finish the tool and make the readme ( this is the hardest part of the job )

Wou, if you write the text I'll put the readme together, save you some work.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on June 09, 2007, 01:08:01 PM
Well, time has run out for CAM7. Testing now moves on to version 8 and a brand new region. I close the region I have been working on since V6 and port this report.  Region population 2,015,114, which consists of 1 large tile (1/3 developed), 7 medium tiles (4 mixed C/I and 3 Ag) and 5 small tiles all service cities (Garbage R Us).
This has been an eyeopener. It takes constant gardening, pruning here, demolish there and frequent rezoning. The problem of solid waste production has been aired and is being addressed. There never were any traffic problems. The alteration of pedestrian traffic appeared reasonable and more realistic than was Maxis solution. I experianced a drop in CS demand as my large city approached 500,000, that is most likely my fault in zoning than CAMs. This did affect the entire region, CS demand disappeared in all my cities. The agricultural cities were great to work on (just don't make the same mistake and zone dense. See illustration). Before charts and screenies, a word about nightlighting. If you do not often use the feature, you will (or must)with CAM. CBDs at night are breathtaking. Also, it was a real treat to see a stage 15 grow. I had only 3, but it was as if I won the superbowl, I'm going to Disney World. I kept trying for WTC (way to go MAS71) or the Empire State building. Oh well, maybe in CAM8.
First the charts. The growth chart is large (10x10) so be prepared. The census was taken on the largest city, the last I played before closing the region.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F664%2Fcam7880yji8.th.jpg&hash=46adf46096e23ba91e73f51d2f5067271c625af4) (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cam7880yji8.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F7941%2Fgrowthchart60907mn2.th.jpg&hash=660c41ca82017af3b9487e9242d5f3ad8b52125f) (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=growthchart60907mn2.jpg)
Here is what I mean about dense zoning in Ag.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F3392%2Fcam64nov9151181158941zy0.jpg&hash=a55e16831111418297f47a2746f8213e0ab0914d)
I did grow some historic farms. In this case two side by side.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F7525%2Fcam713may5051181261404ua0.jpg&hash=00234e31558fc4c0397532973a39514c319af87e)
An idea of what a medium tile looks like after CAM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F2347%2Fcam75mar30511181183749fg4.jpg&hash=8c5a22ef22df64b8b4d9b8ed164dfa598e3086b2)
My first stage 15. Cute isn't it. And since I had 3  &apls &apls &apls for me.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F3070%2Fcam78jan20801181409313ct5.jpg&hash=205f34d9c29dfe1bdfb4213d80edefd45aaa9773)
And finally amy largest city pop. 632,860
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F173%2Fcam78jan26801181409370ev3.jpg&hash=e8ec1fa84248a6da181ad987e87ac834e012f6af)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg483.imageshack.us%2Fimg483%2F1781%2Fcam78jan31801181409388he6.jpg&hash=d57fa035e0385c9b018a7db19a2d1d13629fdf8e)
Now it's OnToCAM8
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jayo on June 09, 2007, 11:44:20 PM
WOW!!This really i a big project isn't it??  :P Well lets just hope it gets realesed ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: stewart_garden on June 10, 2007, 12:27:30 AM
Hi,

This is a really impressive mod and I am following the topic with interest. 

I am curious though: there seems to be a problem with some cities when the population on well-developed large city tile gets quite significant and there is a fair amount of custom content.  What happens is that detail does not show up on some lots: there is no exact diagnosis (to the best of my knowledge), but the approximate situation (large pop., large tile, large plugins folder etc) is common to all who have encountered the problem.  Snorrelli started a topic (link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1201.msg42293#new)) on this problem and I replied with a few links to others who have encountered the same.

I expect that this might show up in testing and in any case it may not be possible to answer this yet, but is it possible the CAM will exacerbate this problem?

I think what you are doing here is great - I thought it might be helpful to highlight a problem that you may encounter in the future and hopefully make a small contribution to a great project.

Stewart
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 10, 2007, 01:06:01 AM
Many of the CAMeLots were made quickly for testing the CAM and are simply buildings placed on a suitable size lot. There is nothing apart from a building and base textures so there is actually no detail to be lost. I have not noticed any loss of detail in my testing and the test lots for over stage 8/3 will be lotted and modded properly prior to release.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 10, 2007, 08:16:27 AM
@shoreman905
It's great report and good cities so beatiul!! &apls
Quote from: shoreman905Also, it was a real treat to see a stage 15 grow.
Yes, Exactry!! ;D
I thing that a existence of buildings of stage-15(or I$r-7,I$dmh10) is very exciting ;)


@Stewart_garden
I know your some concern very well me too ;)
I don't know well that the last total picture of CAM now yet.
(Will we need how many datas at final.)

However, I think that too, This great MODD "CAM" is one of big new entrance of SC4 which evolved.
and It will accomplish true evolution by our hand(BATs).
It will be multifarious for each users.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on June 11, 2007, 04:36:28 PM
HOOOOOOLLLY COW!!!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o That's some Mod I EVER SEEN!

Barby - Can I test it too please??  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: schooner2 on June 11, 2007, 05:37:05 PM
Wow, this is amazing!!!!  A mighty thumbs up to all who made this possible   :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:!!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mayor Abe on June 11, 2007, 07:32:47 PM
When will it Release? how far into development are you?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jplumbley on June 11, 2007, 07:57:29 PM
Quote from: Mayor Abe on June 11, 2007, 07:32:47 PM
When will it Release? how far into development are you?

Ummm.... whats the rush?  We want to have something that works right?  There have been many challenges to overcome and the BETA Testing has provided us with the information needed to fix many of them.  But there is no release date set for a public release.

It will take a few months just to convert many of the old Lots released by various Custom Content Creators who have given their blessings.  These are currently in the works.  Unfortunately, its ALOT of buildings.  All th eprop packs you have seen recently on the SC4D LEX are all the creators that have given their blessings and we continue to see more support for CAM from new creators every week!

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 11, 2007, 11:49:03 PM
Having gone from a beta 3 to the latest v8 you can see that testing has been going on for some time. Ripplejet will be away for a month so the final testing can be completed and hopefully if there are no serious problems reported it should be released at the end of July. Many of the lots that are currently growing at stage 8 will need to be revised to new stages with new stats. The old lots will not be edited but new ones will need to be made. What we would recommend in that situation is that you remove the old lots and just keep the models. That is one reason why we are happy with the co-operation from some of the BATters of skyscrapers who have agreed to the making of packs of their models.  For those who have not given permission for this approach it will mean collecting single files from mainly the STEX but also from some of the Japanese sites.
I am hoping that over the coming few weeks I can post some of the CAM lots to the LEX with a list of all the models you will need to collect to make sure you avoid brown boxes - and huge ones at that ;D - when the CAM is released.
Another reason for delaying the release of the CAM is that we are also testing out Wou's new tool which will be needed to accurately make CAM lots. This is an incredible program but it is still being developed and refined and is another thing that will not be hurried. No one wants a half finished program with any bugs :thumbsdown: so it will be ready when it is ready.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mayor Abe on June 12, 2007, 05:48:58 AM
Oh. Sorry for rushing.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 12, 2007, 10:10:47 AM
Quote from: dioangel on June 11, 2007, 04:36:28 PM
Can I test it too please??  ;D

Beta testing is on the final lap now, so you will soon be able to test version 1.0 :thumbsup:


Quote from: Mayor Abe on June 12, 2007, 05:48:58 AM
Oh. Sorry for rushing.

Don't mention it, Abe. We are indeed aiming at releasing version 1.0 by the end on July ;)
Actually development on version 1.1 has started as well :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on June 12, 2007, 10:54:09 AM
Radikal Beans! This is a great acheivement. So I am assuming this is just more LOT and .DAT properties that have been discovered, since there is no modification to the game engine itself the CAM is just utilizing features that were ignored in the game engine?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 12, 2007, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: bixel on June 12, 2007, 10:54:09 AM
Radikal Beans! This is a great acheivement. So I am assuming this is just more LOT and .DAT properties that have been discovered, since there is no modification to the game engine itself the CAM is just utilizing features that were ignored in the game engine?

There are a few properties that were reserved by Maxis to cater for the additional stages.
In addition to taking them into use, a lot of other properties have been tweaked in order to achieve a smooth development from stage 1 through to stage 15.

The second, equally important step in order to make the CAM fully functional, is to fill these upper stages with custom content.
And for this purpose I am especially glad to find you here, Bixel! ::)

Lots for these new stages introduced by the CAM are called CAMeLots, and I see a lot of potential CAMeLots based on your buildings! :thumbsup:
Especially since we do have a need for residential CAMeLots at the moment... I'll send you a PM about CAMeLot making!

Btw, welcome to SC4D, Bixel! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on June 12, 2007, 01:16:34 PM
wow thank you RippleJet!!!  &apls  ;D

Barby - OOooo New stuff along with the CAM weeehe!!  :thumbsup: ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 12, 2007, 01:20:38 PM
Linda: not so much new stuff but new lots with old BATs. $%Grinno$% These can now be in better growth stages than the stage 8 most of them were in.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on June 12, 2007, 01:57:10 PM
Barby - Coool! New and old seems excellent to me!  :thumbsup: can't wait to try it.  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 14, 2007, 10:57:31 PM
-- A report of 50 years of a Default-City  and a CAM-City  --

Hi all ;)
Now, We CAMster (tester of CAM) continue testing it fot completion the CAM1.0 for public.
And perhaps it will be the last test if it will have no problems. ;)
I can't wait a July me too!! ;D

Well,
I want all of you to watch this little report about a difference of Default-City and CAM-City today. ;)

Before,
I remove all of RCI-Buildings from one city which grew up.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg378.imageshack.us%2Fimg378%2F7342%2Fcam801wp3.jpg&hash=0498f36498c87f20442cd774b11d33f071dfbca5)
and I watched this city in each two ways of states. (Default and with CAM)



- 20 years later -
<a href="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/289/cam820ky7.jpg">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F289%2Fcam820ky7.jpg&hash=a7e978ba73801b61e31e8cb74bbce6aad81fcac5)</a>
(Click image to full size)



- 50 years later -
<a href="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9099/cam850bo1.jpg">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F9099%2Fcam850bo1.jpg&hash=e6e40126c7dd11e0a4778f9066b1d513bad0c230)</a>
(Click image to full size)
A "Default-City" was stop a development about 30 years later.
however,  Development of "CAM-City" continues  about 45 years !!



- A result after 50 years of each city -
<a href="http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1376/cam8finalan7.gif">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg378.imageshack.us%2Fimg378%2F1376%2Fcam8finalan7.gif&hash=e5ef1aa366b8b79660cfef9e2c1cf6e486f67129)</a>
(Click image to full size)
You can see a difference of development each city.
A difference of "Default-City" and "CAM-City" is clear at a glance !!


For BETA of CAM.
We using about 70 of C$ and R$ Test-LOTs now.
(These are LOTs for tests to the last.)
Therefore a kind of a building to appear is entrusted to the number of CAMelot.

I don't know how many CAMElots will made on finally.
Perhaps I think that you would look at a very than these lively cities. ;)


Thank you.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 14, 2007, 11:54:38 PM
Masuda-san! This is the best report I've seen! &apls
It is very visually showing what the CAM will provide for skyscraper builders! ()stsfd()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on June 15, 2007, 04:14:18 AM
Way to go Masuda!!! That was a great way to illustrate the difference between Vanilla SC4 and CAM SC4. And that was a great idea to compare the two.  &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on June 15, 2007, 08:38:30 AM
fanastic progress indeed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 17, 2007, 03:02:44 AM
Thank you Ripplejet , Shoreman905 and Mightygoose !!

I think that I want a lot of people to understand pleasure and splendor of CAM!! :D
And the true figure will confirm with eyes of your own at July ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on June 17, 2007, 01:45:33 PM
Soooo Unbelievable!!!!!  &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on June 17, 2007, 03:42:17 PM
I would just like to thank everyone who has put so much work into CAM and I cannot wait to get my hands on it next month.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on June 18, 2007, 09:12:50 AM
Looks awesome but I think if EA gets wind of this they may never attempt another SimCity.Granted this community does a better job then EA but I still would see them take a stab at it.
    Goodluck with the testing. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on June 18, 2007, 11:07:06 AM
Excellent progress, MAS71! I hope all the testing is going well!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jeronij on June 18, 2007, 01:33:36 PM
Quote from: Kevin Ar18 on June 18, 2007, 01:25:37 PM
This concept would go good with the CAM: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1512.msg43611#msg43611
What about implementing the CAM that way?

And did you hear about the X-Tool ...  $%#Ninj2 ?¿
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 18, 2007, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Kevin Ar18 on June 18, 2007, 01:59:49 PM
Where's the thread for it?

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1407.0

Anything made by Wouanagaine's X Tool is CAMpatible and to make a CAMeLot you need to use the X Tool :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on June 19, 2007, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on June 18, 2007, 11:16:18 PM
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1407.0

Anything made by Wouanagaine's X Tool is CAMpatible and to make a CAMeLot you need to use the X Tool :thumbsup:

WOOOOHO SWEET!!... Just seen it hehehe.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 20, 2007, 10:51:39 AM
BSC has currently nearly 200 lots in preparation for the forthcoming CAM. I am posting here a list of all the models that have been used to date with links to their location so you can begin to collect any that you do not have. You will also need all the prop packs on the LEX from Cobb, CARCH, PaulvMontfort, ks_jpn, Somy, APTX, DMScopio, Superstar, NDEX ITS and bixel. A long list but there will be more lots to come as well as any that other people make.
1 place ville-marie-0x5ad0e817_0x53be1d97_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18004
125_London Wall_Essential.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13640
20 Fenchurch Street_Essential.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12480
99Bishopsgate_Essential.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12454
AndoverTowerOne-0x5ad0e817_0xcd821e4e_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3128
AZURIKOPLAZATWO-0x5ad0e817_0x4d8e182a_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3620
Bank One Building.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=10912
Brighton Export-0x5ad0e817_0xad95bb32_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3458
bronze_tower-0x5ad0e817_0x4d7cde8f_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3037
building 2-0x5ad0e817_0x6d67c932_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2859
Carson Plaza Model File.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3858
COBALTTOWER001-0x5ad0e817_0x8d5f37b1_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3864
Conceptual's Wilkshire Tower [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11538
CrystalPile-0x5ad0e817_0x8dbb957b_0x90000.SC4Model;http://raika-s.hp.infoseek.co.jp/
DTEB Gouldwood Bank Tower [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12789
Duselle Tower M-0x5ad0e817_0x51ff9ca3_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16935
DuskTrooper's Evil Vanadium HQ [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11621
DuskTrooper's Juneau Bank Tower [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4218
DuskTrooper's Niobium Energy Company [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4140
DuskTrooper's PanPacific Building [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4535
DuskTrooper's Warriott Grissom Hotel [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11569
DuskTrooper's Zhang Ghee Center [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12253
EBDT IJL Financial Center II [Model].SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14513
Eburress' Berkner Bank.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4277
Eburress' e2i Tower.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4014
Eburress' Ellington Tower.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4230
Eburress' Personify Plaza.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4075
FRANKANDARCHAITWR-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2d42d9_0x680000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2896
Frogface Air Building2-0x5ad0e817_0x6d2ea386_0xc0000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2749
Frogface TelecommunicationsCentre-0x5ad0e817_0x6d2ea386_0x840000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3633
frogfaceINC2-0x5ad0e817_0x6d2ea386_0x70000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2517
IJL Export-0x5ad0e817_0x6d988bb3_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3238
Integriculture-0x5ad0e817_0x94368cf6_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.yuhisa.com/cgi/c-board/c-board.cgi?cmd=one;page=17;id=
IoliteSpire-0x5ad0e817_0x8dbb957b_0x130000.SC4Model;http://raika-s.hp.infoseek.co.jp/
ITS_25_Bankstreet-0x5ad0e817_0x8152c94a_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17318
JetersenFocsmann-0x5ad0e817_0xcd760967_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3783
JT_Harbour View-0x5ad0e817_0x6d3fa744_0x280000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3764
kd5rax's Taipei Lite Model.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11302
kd5rax's York Tower [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11545
KEATON PLAZA-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2d42d9_0x640000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2780
Lake Point Model File.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3921
LANSFAIREV1-0x5ad0e817_0x6d4c1ae2_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2606
Larus Plaza-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2d42d9_0x6d0000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3081
Lucia Export-0x5ad0e817_0xadaed01a_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3459
LYREPLAZAII-0x5ad0e817_0x8d58ddf7_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3186
NDEX (DuskTrooper) Cardinal Airlines Tower.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11084
NDEX (DuskTrooper) Frank and Archai TowerII.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4539
NDEX (DuskTrooper) KaplanKo Tower IV.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4350
NDEX (DuskTrooper) Tiberian Thanefirst [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12622
NDEX (DuskTrooper) Vanadium Tower 2.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11104
NDEX_DT_Dohn Bldg.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13636
NDEX_DT_MontaukGasCo.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15474
NDEX_DT_Seven56.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13162
NDEX_DT_SidfeldtTowerOne.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16368
NDEX_DT_Van Boktt Tower.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15471
NDEX_DT_Washington Atlantic Tower.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13635
NDEX_EBDT_StoneleighTower.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13634
NDEX_EBDT_Stratford.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13204
NDEX_EBDT_Zeniathus.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13205
NDEX_GD_MichiganAve.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13179
NDEX_SSDT_HearstTower-0x5ad0e817_0xb2c932c6_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13728
NDEX_Tragicomicus_ZeusCorp$$$.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16378
Oneil's Atlantic Plaza [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11579
Oneil's Dakota Park Place [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12726
Oneil's Flatbush Residence [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x53059ea7_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14082
Oneil's Riviera Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x7309497f_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14121
Oneil's SeaView Tower Model.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11209
Oneil's Sun Bank [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11620
OUTROPH2-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2d42d9_0x250000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2300
Palm Plaza Model file.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3841
Roundler Building-0x5ad0e817_0x2dad5c69_0x690000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3851
rrr_recover-0x5ad0e817_0x6d691780_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2862
SkychaseBankTowerOneR-0x5ad0e817_0xedbc2d36_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3538
skyscraper-0x5ad0e817_0xcd2db57c_0x180000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2400
StHelen's_Modelfile.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12414
Superstar's Atlantia Tower [Model] -0x5ad0e817_0x529b289c_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13670
Superstar's Caroline Park Condos [Model] -0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0x20000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13682
Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0xb0000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14112
Superstar's City Tower [Model] -0x5ad0e817_0xaef19a7f_0x130000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13742
Superstar's Diamond Financial Center [Model] 0x5ad0e817_0xd2996e37_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13671
Superstar's Key Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13844
Superstar's Miami Palm Building A [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11993
Superstar's Miami Palm Building B [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11993
Superstar's Narumo Incorporated.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12894
Superstar's Pacifica Palm Plaza [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11322
Superstar's Shiner Tower.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12894
Superstar's SimNation Bank Plaza [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12893
Superstar's SPH Tower [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11760
Superstar's Trillton Tower [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11445
TechnetiumTower-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2d42d9_0x710000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3784
top2-0x5ad0e817_0xad620834_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2837
tower-noe-0x5ad0e817_0xcd4d6e21_0x90000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2957
Tower3-0x5ad0e817_0xd528cbc_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2627
Velacosma-0x5ad0e817_0x9135e4ee_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.yuhisa.com/cgi/c-board/c-board.cgi?cmd=one;no=28;id=
veracorpdone-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2ea84e_0xe0000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2679
WLTRNSCRP-0x5ad0e817_0x2d2d42d9_0x500000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2543
WRAVENNTWR-0x5ad0e817_0x2d636146_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3865
SG Warehouses - small;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12859
SG Hanson Hosiery;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15015
SG Fukitol Herbal Factory;http://simpeg.com/forum/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item598
SG Prentice Mills;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13212
SG Yuengling Brewery;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13213
SG Auto Factory;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12861
SG Ez Flo;http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=604
SG Goober Gen Labs;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13927

Have fun collecting as the lots will not be long to appear. This list will also be available as a Cleanitol file to check that you have the required models and also to make sure you do not have duplicates in plugins.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 20, 2007, 11:20:48 AM
And I haven't quite finished it yet $%Grinno$% I am just finishing uploading bixel's packs then I can finish off adding the packs and links.
I have no life and am very sad ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on June 20, 2007, 11:35:44 AM
Wow - this is really zipping along...

I'm curious what testing has revealed about CAM's impact on existing cities that are already full of what are now stage 8 skyscrapers.

Presumably, to install the CAMelots, we will have to remove the previous lots that used those models, because we would then have stage 7-8 and stage 14-15 lots with the same buildings? What do I know though - my technical knowledge of this is pretty close to zero so I'm just making a wild guess...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 20, 2007, 11:41:41 AM
You are correct, snorrelli. I haven't consulted with Ripplejet on this yet but personally I would not recommend mixing CAM and non-CAM lots of the same models. I have been doing that in testing and as you say the old lots are maximum stage 8 and grow at that stage but with incorrect occupancy for the size of the building. It is going to be a difficult decision to make but it will be for you city builders to decide how you want to work.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on June 20, 2007, 11:49:12 AM
Hmmm... Will be a tough choice indeed. This "extension" of the game is very exciting but I have some well-developed cities that I still play and continue to expand regularly and I would hate to bulldoze and delete all the lots those cities are filled with...

Maybe the Start-up Manager is the answer here. CAM and non-CAM regions/cities...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 20, 2007, 12:38:50 PM
Start-Up manager can, of course, be used on a city by city basis so if you have a region that you want to continue developing without wholesale destruction you could set SUM to load those cities without CAM - the lots don't matter as they will not grow without it $%Grinno$% - and set it to load new cities in the region with CAM in. That way you would gain the regional benefits of the population in the new CAM cities ;D thus you would get higher stages growing quicker. None of the CAM lots are the original lots with the modifications so they will not interfere with what you have gorwing. These are all new lots with new IIDs.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wouanagaine on June 20, 2007, 12:43:18 PM
Barby, I just hope there is a word with more meaning than 'goddess'. You deserve to be above goddess
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on June 20, 2007, 12:50:23 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on June 20, 2007, 12:38:50 PM
Start-Up manager can, of course, be used on a city by city basis so if you have a region that you want to continue developing without wholesale destruction you could set SUM to load those cities without CAM - the lots don't matter as they will not grow without it $%Grinno$% - and set it to load new cities in the region with CAM in. That way you would gain the regional benefits of the population in the new CAM cities ;D thus you would get higher stages growing quicker. None of the CAM lots are the original lots with the modifications so they will not interfere with what you have gorwing. These are all new lots with new IIDs.

Seems like the problem of switching between the two wouldn't be avoiding CAM lots in non-CAM cities but avoiding non-CAM lots in CAM cities. The SUM would have to disable all the non-CAM lots when you play a CAM region but leave them available to re-enable when you switch back to a non-CAM region...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 20, 2007, 01:12:52 PM
Quote from: snorrelli on June 20, 2007, 11:35:44 AM
I'm curious what testing has revealed about CAM's impact on existing cities that are already full of what are now stage 8 skyscrapers.

Presumably, to install the CAMelots, we will have to remove the previous lots that used those models, because we would then have stage 7-8 and stage 14-15 lots with the same buildings? What do I know though - my technical knowledge of this is pretty close to zero so I'm just making a wild guess...

I've tested that myself a bit as well, and it's not so straightforward to tell how the CAM will influence an existing, built-up region.
Actually, most of my tests went pretty well. You will of course have a surplus of stage 8 building in your city, and those lots where stage 8 buildings have appeared will not upgrade right away, since their population density and building value might be higher than any of the available stage 9-11 buildlings...

A much more critical factor is the workforce drives and demand levels. If your existing cities have any problems regarding them, you will experience it more severely with the CAM than without it. The number of commuters your cities have is also important, and especially the number of eternal commuters.

Eternal commuters are those that commute in circles around a corner where four cities meet.
If you have lots of them, you might find that all demands hit the bottom of -6,000 and will never rise again if you install the CAM.

If you want to use the CAM with existing regions I would first of all recommend to backup the entire region.
Then, I would also play a few months with each city before saving them, and see if every city is behaving normally.


Quote from: snorrelli on June 20, 2007, 12:50:23 PM
Seems like the problem of switching between the two wouldn't be avoiding CAM lots in non-CAM cities but avoiding non-CAM lots in CAM cities. The SUM would have to disable all the non-CAM lots when you play a CAM region but leave them available to re-enable when you switch back to a non-CAM region...

Quite correct ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on June 20, 2007, 08:00:39 PM
Goddess you ain't alone I ain't got a life either. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on June 20, 2007, 09:07:07 PM
Wow, you people have been busy! OK I've got a big machine thats just dedicated to simcity so I gues I better tape my finger tips and get busy downloading ,sorting and storing stuff. I promise to read everything and try and figure it all out. So far that method has worked pretty well. Thank you all for your dedication to: thegame &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on June 20, 2007, 11:59:37 PM
Looks like all my stuff has been uploaded on the LEX as props for use in the upcoming CAM LOTS. I am pretty exited. My only question to Barbyw is, do you sleep?? HAHHA, and I saw these warnings about duplicate model files, do I need to get rid of my original Model files (meaning the ones I uploaded on STEX), or can I just wait and use the CAM LOTS that come our later, ignoring all these prop packs?

Anyway. Many cheers to Barbyw for her hard work. I'd buy you a drink but the Atlantic Ocean is too big to swim.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 21, 2007, 12:34:36 AM
bixel, it will be a matter of choice whether you use the original models or the packs if you have them all -  ;D. For people who have not collected all your work the packs are the easiest way to go and deleting any original models they have will minimise the risk of duplication. Also your packs will be referenced but not the individual models.
As explained to snorrelli, there will be a dichotomy once the CAMeLots and CAM are released as by keeping the old lots some will grow far too early and with low occupancy on the other hand we obviously cannot tell people that they must remove the old lots. It will be a personal choice but for newly started regions we would recommend the original models plus the CAMeLots and remove the old lots.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on June 21, 2007, 02:25:54 AM
@BarbyW

Thank you very much for LINKies to works for CAM.
I am blinded when I watch it !! %$payas)(


I found "Miss Link" only one place. "$Deal"$
Please revise it. ;)

Quote from: Miss LinkLucia Export-0x5ad0e817_0xadaed01a_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13652

< Correct Links>
Lucia Export-0x5ad0e817_0xadaed01a_0x30000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3459

Thank you  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 21, 2007, 02:39:38 AM
Thank you, Mas-san.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on June 21, 2007, 02:55:33 AM
Ok, so all I have to do is to clean out the old LOTs, not the models. Thats all i needed to know. Thanks :satisfied:!!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 21, 2007, 03:04:14 AM
Not until the new ones are uploaded, bixel. I haven't yet converted all your previous ones to CAM but have used your models to make new lots. These won't conflict with yours as they all have new IIDs. I can convert yours if you wish but that will take some time. ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on June 21, 2007, 03:09:41 AM
Hi BarbyW,

Thanks for all your work here. I actually spent the afternoon downloading all this (while waiting for things to load and render at work, it can take a while) and found a couple more issues in addition to MAS71's

QuoteNDEX (DuskTrooper) Frank and Archai Tower;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4539
II.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4539

This should be all one line as the file is 'NDEX (DuskTrooper) Frank and Archai Tower II.SC4Model', confused me for a little bit.

Also,

QuoteSuperstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0xb0000.SC4Model;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14112

The model file in here is actually "Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x1305ef0d_0x30000.SC4Model". Is that the correct one?

I've now got all 97 individual files you listed out of the zips (yay for bash scripting!) plus the 8 SimGoober industrial lots. However when I run the Cleanitol TM you uploaded to the LEX it says that it can't find many of the SC4Model files and none of the SG industrials. Is this meant to be the final Cleanitol file? I've looked a bit closer and it seems that all the files that have '[' and ']' characters in them aren't being found. I guess this is a limitation of the underlying windows file find commands that Cleanitol uses.

The SG industrials aren't being found cause they are listed in the file with the same names as you gave in your post listing. The installers doesn't use those names though. If i change (eg) 'SG Warehouses - small' to 'SG_WareHousesSmall.dat' in the file then it finds the SG warehouses fine.  However I don't know which of the SG files are the actual dependancies so am not sure what I should actually be putting in there.

Finally, the last 4 files in the Cleanitol file are using : instead of ; as a delimiter between the filename and url. Cleanitol doesn't find these at all. They also weren't in your original list, are they needed? Also the link to 'Integricutlure Subterranean' seems to be incorrect.

I've started updating my copy of the cleanitol file to find as much as it can (I don't think there's much I can do about the '[' and ']' characters without being able to change the Cleanitol program). Is it worth me trying to fix it or is there another one on the way soon?

Again, thanks for compiling all this, it's much appreciated  :thumbsup:. Now I've just got to wait for the whole thing to be released  :) My plugin folder is going to get much larger soon....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 21, 2007, 03:44:45 AM
Sorry about the Cleanitol problems. I made the mistake of using the above list as the Cleanitol and I made some errors as the file names need to be exact. The last four files shouldn't have been in the list as they were references for me &ops. Wouanagaine has also identified the problem with the [ ] and is looking into it.
I have locked the file temporarily until a) I have done the revisions and b) Wou has checked out the [ ] problem.
The Superstar model may not have been used as I did use his original building that is in the SS Mega pack Vol01. The file name quoted is actually from the original upload that I now see was updated so it will be the correct model if/when it is used.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on June 21, 2007, 04:24:02 AM
That's all right Barby. I've just modified my copy of the Cleanitol file and it now works for all the files and dependancies you listed. Apart from the [ ] issues it now detects everything correctly. Let me of if you'd like me to send you a copy of it.

thanks again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on June 21, 2007, 01:26:26 PM
As far as using the models for new lots thats fine. But just do nothing with the old Harbourside, or the Arch. Harbourside is getting a version2, and the Arch may get a rerender. I think in the LOT threads on simtropolis equiniox has a neat tutorial to quickly grab all the prop and texture data from one lot and slap it easily in another. I use that technique a lot after making a LM then copying the LOT design for the growable, but I assume you already know this :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 21, 2007, 01:37:05 PM
Okiedokie, Bixel :)

Quote from: bixel on June 21, 2007, 01:26:26 PM
I think in the LOT threads on simtropolis equiniox has a neat tutorial to quickly grab all the prop and texture data from one lot and slap it easily in another. I use that technique a lot after making a LM then copying the LOT design for the growable, but I assume you already know this :P

Yes, and I am very sure Barby knows it too! :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Glenni on June 21, 2007, 02:55:14 PM
I was told Indisguise started a thread asking me publically if i would keep my promise about letting you guys re-mod my buildings as CAM-e-lots , but for whatever trouble there was earlier today that thread got deleted/locked/moved to time out corner, anyway, i'm not here to rant about that.

But yeah, i'll keep my promise , why shouldn't i? Don't really got any reasons for why not letting you guys to re-mod them for CAM in the first place. :thumbsup:

By the way, i was asked to tell this public, so i figured this is the best place to tell, not really any need to start a whole new thread.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 21, 2007, 02:57:29 PM
Thanks, Glenni. I'm sure they will make excellent CAMeLots.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Swamper77 on June 21, 2007, 03:33:38 PM
Particularly that 14 story hospital of his ;)

-Jan
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: glepet on June 21, 2007, 08:16:07 PM
Quote from: bixel on June 21, 2007, 01:26:26 PM
I think in the LOT threads on simtropolis equiniox has a neat tutorial to quickly grab all the prop and texture data from one lot and slap it easily in another.
I looked over there for this tutorial but I couldn't find it. Do you know it it's still there, maybe I just missed it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on June 22, 2007, 03:49:27 PM
Here it is: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=121&threadid=62705&enterthread=y
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: glepet on June 23, 2007, 07:04:06 AM
Thanks Ripplejet!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: schm0 on June 24, 2007, 07:07:00 PM
I understand the main premise of this add-on, but I'm a bit confused. Won't it limit the upper 7 stages to buildings that have yet to be released and the original vanilla Maxis buildings? And how do you account for the thousands of buildings released by other members on ST,  SC4Dev and the countless other sites? Are you talking about modding every building ever made? And if not, won't my old downloaded Stage 8 buildings be replaced by only CAM-friendly buildings if demand desires them? Wow, I have a lot of questions. :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on June 25, 2007, 01:04:26 AM
As an integral part of the CAM Ripplejet has modded all the Maxis buildings to fit into the full range of stages. Providing you do not use any Stop Maxis mods there is a full range available. He has also modded landmarks to grow in the upper stages. So even playng a vanilla city you could have all the stages grow.
No I am not talking about modding every building ever released $%Grinno$%. For the CAM we have taken some of the large buildings that currently can only grow to stage 8 and made them into new lots with more appropriate stages. If you keep all the lots that come with these buildings, you will have the same building growing in different stages. If that doesn't worry you then you can keep the old lots. If it does then just keep the models.
Once Wou's new tool is available people will be able to make and mod their buildings to CAM standard.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on June 26, 2007, 03:33:02 PM
There haven't been many reports issued here for several days, but we wouldn't want you to think the project has gone into hibernation. At this time, a huge assortment of lots are being prepared and tested before release. At times it seems the whole of BSC is involved, and need to be, as this truely is a colossal effort. Ripplejet is away for a short absence, leaving the mice to play. CAM testing continues and new lots are handed over daily for testing, so the pace continues even with the ringmaster away. We CAMsters will post screenies now and then for you to check on as progress continues.  :-\
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: simdad1957 on July 02, 2007, 11:31:37 AM
Just a query re: the CAM.

Is it the intention of the BSC that their future BAT's will be only compatible with the CAM or will the BSC continue to produce BAT's that are still compatible with garden variety SC4 Deluxe. This is an important point for luddites such as myself who are reluctant to upgrade to the CAM.

Thanks in advance for your reply.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 02, 2007, 12:35:37 PM
The CAM will allow growth of lots to stage 15 for R and C, to stage 10 for Ind and stage 7 for farms. All future BSC lots will be made using Wou's new tool but that does not mean they will only be CAM. Without CAM the lots will develop but you will not see new CAM skyscrapers without it. If, for example, you keep all the previously up to stage 8 skyscrapers they will still grow but any made with CAMpatible statistics won't so it wil be up to BATters. As not many BSC members make these large buildings there will not be much difference.
CAM is not an upgrade per se but a mod that opens up the extra stages that Maxis allowed for but didn't implement.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on July 02, 2007, 02:20:43 PM
Hello Sinbad... Barbara gives good advise.

I recently made some mid-rise office buildings that are being tested by some of the other BSC folk. These buildings have similar jobs, pollution, and consumption as the Maxis Ben Tower. The Ben grows as a stage 5 and 6. Mine do too. I tested them while using the CAM. I saw that they grow at or around the same time as the Ben Tower. So - they are both Rush Hour and CAM compatible. A forty story skyscraper (If I ever bat one) will probably only grow in the CAM as it may be a stage 10 building. Rush Hour would not know what to do with a stage 10 building.

Regarding your questions whether the BSC will only make CAM lots. Let me answer this way. I am finishing up some farm buildings. I'll give them the suggested jobs, pollution, and water consumption that the PIM-X assigns. In that regard they will be 'CAMpatible' but will also grow in Rush Hour because they will be stage 2 farms. I might add that I can't answer for others. Just myself.

The real difference between the CAM and Rush Hour will be how the game works with big cities. As Barby said your current stage 8 skyscrapers will continue to grow at stage 8 whether you have the CAM or Rush Hour. But what is so fun about that? I'd rather try to get the Empire State Building to grow as a stage 14. This game has been around for several years. The CAM is making it fun and a bit different. Big cities to me were always about 75K Sims. But then that first stage 9 grew at around 100K Sims. I said "how about that". I then set my sites on stage 10. That one grew and I felt a sense of accomplishment. Onward and upward to stage 11 (well, still working at it).

Hope this is helpful.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ExiLe on July 02, 2007, 04:11:19 PM
I love how this is turning out, great job guys!  &apls

take care,
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 03, 2007, 09:52:51 AM
Will non CAM lots still grow or will they become blocked with CAM installed?.
    Sorry to ask such a stupid question but this whole CAM idea just blows my mind.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 03, 2007, 10:02:26 AM
Non CAM lots will still grow, BB. The CAM will not block anything but will unlock higher stage lots.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 03, 2007, 10:14:18 AM
Thanx Goddess.
   I'm just blown as to how a group of players can come together and almost re-write a game.I think EA should release the codes to BSC/CSX and then we can finally have a SC5.Thanx again
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 03, 2007, 10:16:49 AM
We wish, BB, we wish. I am sure Wouanagaine could make an excellent job of things if only, but it will never happen unfortunately.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 03, 2007, 12:47:44 PM
Double posting, I know but this is an announcement that the first of the CAMeLots are now available on the LEX. There are: two new industrials, one from citynut and one from simgoober; 2 new stage 4 farms from BLS D66 and 2 in the revised the BLS Revised farms pack. This week I shall start uploading the CAMeLots made with the skyscraper and other large buildings in sets of about 6 for CO, CS, IND and RES. There is a good variety but it doesn't yet cover all stages for each type and wealth level. Once I have my other queue decreasing I shall make some lots to cover the missing levels.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 03, 2007, 01:21:04 PM
cool
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 03, 2007, 01:22:03 PM
Goddess we would be so lost without you and the rest of your group.Thanx for keeping our cities alive and kicking. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 04, 2007, 12:25:19 AM
So Barby, I assume a CAM release is imminent? Does this mean I should get to work on cleaning up my plugins?!?

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 04, 2007, 12:42:33 AM
BigSlark: Ripplejet is hoping to have the first public release just after the BSC European members'  meeting in Frankfurt and it should be ready immediately after that. So some time after 16th July.
I have a lot of CAMeLots to upload so am trying to start now so you are all ready. As for cleaning out plugins, you will need to decide if you can live with the same building appearing at different growth stages. The lots are all new IIDs so will not conflict with any of the previous ones. They do, however, need the models as they are not included with the lots. I hope this makes things a bit clearer.
Ripplejet is jetting round Europe at the moment but may find a connection and pop in to post.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 04, 2007, 03:26:51 AM
Just on a side note, I take it the models are in the packs you have on STEX?  I have already made a list of them, with links, so people can get them easier, and note what they have already. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 04, 2007, 03:29:40 AM
Good Work Diggis.   :thumbsup: &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 04, 2007, 04:12:11 AM
Diggis, the Cleanitol file I posted has a list of the single models with links as posted on a previous page here. Each of the model packs has a Cleanitol list too.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 04, 2007, 04:58:13 AM
Sweet as.  The list I was refering to is the master one I'm in the middle of.  I didn't start a new list.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 06, 2007, 08:56:09 AM
Well, guys and gals, the first of the CAM lots have been posted today to the LEX. Today I have posted a total of 53 lots in sets of 4 to 6 each with their own installer and Readme. Each of the Readmes, and there is a loose one in the individual zips, gives details of the stats for the lots in that set and also a linked Dependency list. These are for advance collecting so you are ready when CAM is released in 10 to 14 days time - all being well.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sim Shady on July 06, 2007, 09:43:43 AM
Something just dawned on me about this project.  You are remaking lots right?  Does that include lots for all the maxis skyscrapers? Newer, BETTER lots?  ;D

perhaps not, but its worth dreaming over.

btw, im proud of how much  you guys have accomplished over the past few months
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on July 06, 2007, 09:49:09 AM
SO SOON?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg89.imageshack.us%2Fimg89%2F7748%2Fgarfieldbyhatredindeedjm9.jpg&hash=736b9ad13eea35532b1911266ced34c076a5baa2)

Yippeee this is great news

I'm this excited
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg395.imageshack.us%2Fimg395%2F3790%2Fcat06junebe3.gif&hash=7814f90f6c3d3cf48ba6e28947d84ed68adc0f1f)

Thanks to all the team who are making this possible :thumbsup:

:satisfied:
TTC

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 06, 2007, 11:15:32 AM
With regard to the Maxis lots, the CAM includes all the revised stage Maxis lots and providing you do not use a Maxis blocker the skyscrapers will grow at later stages than they do now.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 06, 2007, 11:30:12 AM
That one's got me puzzled too... Didn't you say that all the CAMelots have new IIDs and won't conflict with the originals? Doesn't that mean that both will grow, at both their original and CAM stages, unless you remove the original lots?

I guess you guys have done something different for the Maxis lots, since we can't very well remove the originals for those? If so, again, how does that impact existing Maxis stage 8s that have already grown in our cities?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 06, 2007, 11:53:45 AM
Pass, Patrick. You will have to wait for ripplejet to come along to answer that one. All I can say is that the lots that I have uploaded are new lots so technically you could have the original lot growing at their original stage and the new lots growing at the higher stages. It won't matter as I had no option but to use models available as I doubt any BATters could or would have made sufficient new buildings for the purpose.  ()sad()
There are some new lots but they will be uploaded by their creators. These are just to give you something to try to grow in your mega cities.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 08, 2007, 12:10:00 AM
An addition to the previously posted master list of models required for the sets I am uploading. jestarr has made some more industrials with existing models and so you will also need the following. All these are listed and linked in the individual Readmes for your convenience and will not need an additional Cleanitol file.
•   BSC MEGA Props Gascooker Vol02
•   jestarr Schwartz Chemical
•   BSCBATProps JES Vol14
•   jestarr Hudson Glass
•   jestarr Perkins Furniture
•   jestarr Replogle Globe Factory
•   jestarr Ritters Rubber Shoe Factory
•   jestarr Ganong Chocolate Factory
•   jestarr Crumbly Cheese Factory
•   jestarr Stone Ground Mustard

The CAMeLots are all new lots with new IIDs so will not interfere with the previous lots. As has been previously stated you have the option as to whether you keep the original lots which will grow in stages up to 3 as well as the new ones or to remove the original lots - not the models. CAM will not stop the growth of the low stage lots but will allow the higher stage ones to grow.

I apologise if anyone has problems obtaining the Japanese BATs but the links I put into the Readme were correct when I got them. You may have to search around a bit to find the BAT but they are there. If you have problems please post and maybe snorrelli or Mas71 can help to find them.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 08, 2007, 07:58:54 AM
Goddess,
   Might I suggest you do a update and remove the Japanese files.Thanx :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 08, 2007, 11:50:24 AM
Just delete the lots that need the Japanese BATs if you can't find the models, BB. I won't be offended.  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 08, 2007, 12:42:53 PM
For those who do want to collect the Japanese models:
http://raika-s.hp.infoseek.co.jp/ on this link if you click English on the left you will find things a bit easier. Only the Commercial page you need The Mitsubishi Crystal Mall and Kirishima Iolite Spire. To download click on the name above the picture.
On this link http://www.yuhisa.com/cgi/c-board/c-board.cgi?cmd=one;page=17;id= click All View at the top and scroll down the page to find Integriculture and then go to page 3 to find Velascoma - this is a 15MB download so delete this one if you are on dial up ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sarjm on July 08, 2007, 02:12:36 PM
Please note that Raika's site doesn't work correctly with Firefox (no scrollbars) so you'll need IE.

S.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 08, 2007, 02:49:33 PM
Thanks, sarjm.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 08, 2007, 03:34:24 PM
thank you soooo much barby!!!  &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 08, 2007, 08:32:57 PM
As far as I know all the Japanese files on the list are accessible out there. KS's site is down at the moment but Barby and co. have organized all his models into mega packs that are available here...

If anybody has any trouble finding anything, post it here and I'll be happy to help.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jimmymac on July 09, 2007, 01:51:47 AM
I have a question, given that the CAM is adjusting the values for the Maxis buildings, will those buildings no longer be affected by the No Maxis mod that was released a few weeks ago?

The other question I have, which is more of a request almost is this; would it be possible, once the CAM is out, to release a cleanitol file that would remove the origional LOT files for the buildings that are used? This would then give people the option to either keep the models or remove them. I understand if this isn't possible as I know it would add a lot of work for whoever has to put it together.

Stu
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sarjm on July 09, 2007, 02:11:09 AM
@jimmymac,
The cleanitol file would be a huge task as some models are used in more than one lot. As an example, I looked at 12 original zip files, they included 25 lots (Growable, Ploppable plus variations). You then have lots using that model but made by other people. You can see where this is going. After all that, Barbyw has probably done it already.  :D

S.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 09, 2007, 02:31:16 AM
sarjm; it would indeed be a huge task and as most of the lots concerned are just in zips not in installers it is easy to just take the model without the original lots. For those who already have them then it is more difficult as they will have to find and remove them themselves if they want to do that.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 09, 2007, 02:32:26 AM
Hello everybody!
...just popping in using my laptop... situated in Brussels at the moment :)

First of all, thank you Barby for replying to all questions above! :thumbsup:

Regarding Maxis lots:
The CAM reassigns the stage for several of them, all industrial lots and several stage 7 and 8 residential and commerial office lots.
The only ones untouched are the Maxis CS lots.
All lots that have been reassigned will only grow in their new growth stage. However, any existing lots will remain.
No relotting has taken place, so the Maxis lots are still as "dull" as originally.

Regarding the industrial buildings, they have also been given new occupancies.
In oher words, if the CAM is installed in an existing city, the industrial capacity of that city will change (increase).
This will not crash any city, it will work like the Industrial Quadrupler (which is incompatible with the CAM).
All occupancies are set in accordance with the formulas developed for Wouanagaine's X Tool.


Quote from: snorrelli on July 08, 2007, 08:32:57 PM
As far as I know all the Japanese files on the list are accessible out there. KS's site is down at the moment but Barby and co. have organized all his models into mega packs that are available here...

If anybody has any trouble finding anything, post it here and I'll be happy to help.

Thanks Patrick!
The only Japanese files that have not been uploaded as mega packs on the BSC LEX are in fact those by Raika.
We were never able to contact him, seems to be MIA. :(


Quote from: jimmymac on July 09, 2007, 01:51:47 AM
I have a question, given that the CAM is adjusting the values for the Maxis buildings, will those buildings no longer be affected by the No Maxis mod that was released a few weeks ago?

The BSC Block Maxis available on the LEX is CAMpatible, if loaded after the CAM.
DuskTrooper's Block Maxis is not CAMpatible, since that would change the industrial capacity of existing buildings as well.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jimmymac on July 09, 2007, 02:54:09 AM
Thanks to everyone for the replies. I understand about the cleanitol, I kind of figured that it would be a huge undertaking, and given everything you all have going on I wasn't expecting it, but still, can't blame a guy for trying, lol.

I switched to the BSC no maxis as soon as it was released, so i'm glad to hear that it will work.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 09, 2007, 04:31:59 AM
Thanx Goddess for the quick reply. :thumbsup:

  Also thanx to also who are working on CAM.This awesome add-on is greatly appreciated and it will give our cities a whole new look.Thanx :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sarjm on July 09, 2007, 08:52:28 AM
Further to jimmymac's question about  a cleanitol file for the original lots, I have attached a txt file with all the original lots (200+).Obviously it can be edited to suit individual needs. This list was built using the top part of the RemoveListCAMModels.txt and does not include references to lots using the SC4Model files in the prop-packs which are on the LEX. e.g. SOMY, APTX etc.

S.
-Edit-
Turned out not to be such a major thing as I first thought. Just extracted all into one folder and used Supercat (http://no-nonsense-software.com/supercat/) to catalogue them. Then did search by extension and saved result list as txt.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 09, 2007, 09:14:50 AM
Wow, thanks, sarjm. I'm sure that will be a help for a lot of people.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jimmymac on July 09, 2007, 10:03:07 AM
Thank you very very much sarjm. You have my upmost respect and appriciation.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 09, 2007, 11:06:35 AM
Thank you sarjm! I, too, appreciate your hard work.

Barby, is there any chance this could be put on the LEX or added to a CAM FAQ?

Cheers, Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 09, 2007, 11:43:16 AM
I will put it into a zip and post it to the LEX if that is OK with sarjm.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sarjm on July 09, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
No problem here Barby.
S.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 09, 2007, 01:16:06 PM
File uploaded. Thanks again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RichGray on July 10, 2007, 03:35:31 AM
may i ask some things guys:

1- Will all future BSC creations be for the CAM?

2- Does it convert maxis lots to be used with it, or is it nescessary to have a full "repertoire" of cam custom lots?

btw, it looks like youre doing a great job  &apls &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 10, 2007, 03:45:22 AM
Quote from: RichGray on July 10, 2007, 03:35:31 AM
1- Will all future BSC creations be for the CAM?

No, most of BSC's future creations will be CAMpatible, eg. will work perfectly both with RH and CAM.

Most larger buildings will probably be lotted for the CAM (stage 9-15 R and C, stage 4-10 Ind), but that will still be up to each individual creator.


Quote from: RichGray on July 10, 2007, 03:35:31 AM
2- Does it convert maxis lots to be used with it, or is it nescessary to have a full "repertoire" of cam custom lots?

The CAM does rearrange some of Maxis' lots into the upper growth stages, but there are not enough in-game buildings to cover all stages.
Thus, for a better variety, I strongly recommend custom CAMelots. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jimmymac on July 10, 2007, 05:49:49 AM
As a means of a thank you to sarjm for producing the list and to all of BSC for everything you have done thusfar, I have gone ahead and added the missing industrial lots from the list, this includes all of the jes and SG lots that were listed in the HTML docs that came with the installers. I have tested it in cleanitol to ensure that it works ok also.

I will attach it to the bottom of this post so people can get it and, Barby, if you wish to update the one on the LEX with this one, you may do as it contains all of the ones sarjm listed and the industry added at the bottom.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 10, 2007, 06:19:59 AM
Many thanks, jimmymac. I have updated the list on the LEX. I have also made a note regarding the ploppables as people may want to keep those.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jimmymac on July 10, 2007, 06:39:04 AM
Just a quick FYI for you Barby, the one uploaded to the LEX seems a little garbled and is missing the industrial lots, just an example for you below

LM6x6_1 PlaceMarie_b32d5044.SC4Lot
NDEX - Atlantia Tower - Growable CO3_b0375c2e.SC4Lot
NDEX - Atlantia Tower - Ploppable CO3_f03758b7.SC4Lot
Tragicomicus - Bank One Building - Growable CO$$$ - 4x4_4e9800a6.SC4Lot
Tragicomicus - Bank One Building - Ploppable CO$$$ - 4x4_4e97f387.SC4Lot
Brighton Tower CO$$.SC4Lot
Brighton Tower LM.SC4Lot
Carson Plaza (Growable).SC4Lot 
Carson Plaza (Plopable).SC4Lot
NDEX - Diamond Financial Center - Growable CO3_f0374f01.SC4Lot
NDEX - Diamond Financial Center - Ploppable CO3_9035deae.SC4Lot
DT Outroph Tower One PL_8d2e9013.SC4Lot
DT CO$$$ Lansfaire Tower_2d4c9721.SC4Lot
DT CO$$$ Willtrans Corp Tower_ed38a8ed.SC4Lot
Eburress - Berkner Bank - Growable CO$$$ (4x4)_ae34264b.SC4Lot
Eburress - Berkner Bank - Plopable CO$$$ (4x4)_ae33fb38.SC4Lot
Eburress - Ellington Tower - Growable CO$$ (3x6)_4e3e65fc.SC4Lot
Eburress - Ellington Tower - Plopable CO$$ (3x6)_8e3787b6.SC4Lot
CO$$$8_4x3One_Ex_Plaza_ad6e2eef.SC4Lot
CO$$$one_ex_ad6e2b82.SC4Lot
CO$$$_First National Tower_4d55404a.SC4Lot
First National Tower_4d54ddea.SC4Lot
Frogface HQ_ed625b63.SC4Lot
Frogface_HQ_0d61855c.SC4Lot
Frogface INC_ed47d305.SC4Lot
Frogface Inc_ed4bef42.SC4Lot
Frogface Telecom_2dc942d3.SC4Lot
CO$$$8_3x3golden_bank_4d70869b.SC4Lot
CO$$$golden_bank_4d707fb9.SC4Lot
CS$$$8_3x3_JT_HarbourView_2df9415c.SC4Lot
Harbour View Plaza Hotel_2df93f84.SC4Lot
R$$$8_3x3_JT_HarbourView_edf9423d.SC4Lot
Harbour View Resort Hotel_8df93e4a.SC4Lot
IJL Financial Center (Landmark)_ad985508.SC4Lot
IJL Financial Center (Ploppable RCI)_ad985508.SC4Lot
Integrated Hirise Farm - Lv2_1301d039.SC4Lot
Integrated Hirise Farm - Lv3_7301d02a.SC4Lot
Integrated Hirise Farm - Lv4_f301d020.SC4Lot
Integrated Hirise Farm - Lv5_9301d009.SC4Lot
NDEX - Key Tower - Growable CO3 (3x4)_d047246d.SC4Lot
NDEX - Key Tower - Ploppable CO3 (3x4)_f05286ef.SC4Lot
CO$$$8kong_corp4x2_cd3fab4f.SC4Lot
Kong Corp._4d3f9d85.SC4Lot
Raika_KirishimaIoliteSpire_ae92a194.SC4Lot
Lucia Tower CO$$.SC4Lot
Lucia Tower LM.SC4Lot
Raika_MitsubishiCrystalPile_ee1ad055.SC4Lot
NDEX - Atlantic Plaza - Growable R3 (4x4)_cf0aaa2a.SC4Lot
NDEX - Atlantic Plaza - Ploppable CS3 (4x4)_af0aaa81.SC4Lot
NDEX - Cardinal Airlines Tower - Growable CO$$$ (4x5)_aeb26e15.SC4Lot
NDEX - Cardinal Airlines Tower - Ploppable CO$$$ (4x5)_2eb26d9b.SC4Lot
NDEX - Carloline Park Condo - Ploppable (4x3)_b039f5d1.SC4Lot
NDEX - Caroline Park Condo - Growable R3 (4x2)_b03a209b.SC4Lot
NDEX - Citibank Tower - Growable CO2 (3x3)_f0792e9b.SC4Lot
NDEX - Citibank Tower - Ploppable CO2 (3x3)_f0792ec2.SC4Lot
NDEX - City Tower Hotel - Growable CO3 (7x4)_904965ac.SC4Lot
NDEX - City Tower Hotel - Ploppable (7x4) CS3_50388029.SC4Lot    NDEX_MM_DA_DuSelle_GROW_72218db4.SC4Lot
NDEX_MM_DA_DuSelle_LM_f2218dd3.SC4Lot
NDEX - Dakota Park Place - Growable R3 (3x3)_8fb85abd.SC4Lot
NDEX - Dakota Park Place - Ploppable CS3 (3x3)_6fb85a4e.SC4Lot
NDEX - Evil Vanadium HQ - Growable CO3 (4x3)_af11b372.SC4Lot
NDEX - Evil Vanadium HQ - Ploppable CO3 (4x3)_6f11b3b0.SC4Lot
NDEX - Flatbush Residence - Landmark (3x4)_d077a05b.SC4Lot
NDEX - Flatbush Residence - R2 (3x4)_7077a41c.SC4Lot
NDEX - Frank and Archai Tower II - Growable CO$$$ - 4x2_ee896156.SC4Lot
NDEX - Frank and Archai Tower II - Plopable CO$$$ - 4x2_8e8960e6.SC4Lot   


Thats exactly how it looks in the text file.

MOD EDIT:  I added line breaks to the "code" section of this post as otherwise it was destroying our right thread margin.  I thought for a minute I was going to have to take my computer to a body shop. -DE
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 10, 2007, 06:52:24 AM
Weird ()what() I have uploaded again and downloaded. It looks OK on my system so can someone else check it please?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on July 10, 2007, 07:10:32 AM

OOK total wierdness here... when viewing post looked blank but clicked for a reply now i see post hmmm...
But anyways i've followed CAM with intrest here so far as i understand we have gone up from Deluxe to CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 10, 2007, 08:13:23 AM
It's because Jimmymac's image is stretching things a little.  :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RichGray on July 10, 2007, 09:04:13 AM
are you guys gonna be re-modding your pre-cam stuff? coz i wanna try this new mod out but its too hard to let go of gascooker's british stuff  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 10, 2007, 10:26:54 AM
Non of Gascooker's residential or commercial buildings need to be updated to work with the CAM.
Some of his industrials have already been updated and are available on the LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on July 11, 2007, 12:23:22 AM
Hi all !! :)

I have one suggestion about CAM.
I continue reporting information of CAM in detail in Japan. ;)
A lot of users wait expectantly for an exhibition of CAM in my country too!!

However,
They have a little problem about getting or finding a DEPENDENCIES of CAMelot.(LOTs for CAM)
When I(we) use CAMELOT, we must read a "Readme" and  look for each required files.
It is natural, but it is very hard work. ()sad()
If we would all of them at a time, it is very comfortable. ;D


Therefore,
Whould you make a thread exclusive a "DEPENDENCIES of CAMelot" ??
The person who uploading a "New CAMelot" in LEX will updates the list at any time.

I think a "BSC CLEANITOL" is a very convenient tool for then,
but  The updating these file(lists) is possible with nobody.


This is my little suggestion. ;)
Does anyone have other good suggestion about it? ()what()


Thank you. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on July 11, 2007, 12:33:17 AM
Hey... there's a good idea. I would love to see a new thread with links to CAM-e-lots. However, I think the LEX already has a few sub-groups for CAM-e-lots, although I don't know if all of the CAM-e-lots are in those sub-groups. It would help if someone could put all modified CAM-e-lots to date into the subfolders for convenience.

- Allan K.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 11, 2007, 01:15:52 AM
Mas:  As far as searching for dependencies goes, as long as you can read the name of the file required, I have done a list up, available here. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1691.msg49963#msg49963)

Clicking on a link will take you to the latest version of the file, without having to do a search.

Hope this helps.  I've got the buildings that were uploaded too.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jimmymac on July 11, 2007, 03:27:48 AM
Firstly apologies for breaking the margin, it didn't seem to have any effect my end, but I apologise, If i'd known I would have changed it myself.

Secondly another apology, I tried the download of the remove list this morning after clearing out my internet cache and it was updated, I guess it was just due to the cache that I was seeing the old file each time.

Oh, btw Diggis, your link has 2 http:// 's in it and thus wont load, just thought i'd best let you know.

EDIT: Barby, I just found that I missed 4 lots from the industry list, these need adding to the bottom of the cleanitol

I-ht3_6x4_SG_GooberGenLabs_302c123f.SC4Lot
I-ht3_6x6_SG_GooberGenLabs_b02ecd76.SC4Lot
I-d3_5x7_jes_SchwartzChemicalCompany_f31e611e.SC4Lot
jes_5x7_SchwartzChemicalCompany_731c23fd.SC4Lot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RichGray on July 11, 2007, 03:33:33 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on July 10, 2007, 10:26:54 AM
Non of Gascooker's residential or commercial buildings need to be updated to work with the CAM.
Some of his industrials have already been updated and are available on the LEX.

guess you can count on me getting the CAM then  $%Grinno$%

&apls &apls this is bleedin' great!!!  &apls &apls goes to the guys an gals doin the hard work to make this!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on July 11, 2007, 06:47:56 AM
@Diggis
Thank you to your likie and your good files too!! :)
I think that I want such a thread which anyone can edit anytime. ;)

Thank you again Diggis  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 11, 2007, 07:10:54 AM
We had one where creators could upload their packs with links at the old simpeg, but it went missing in the move.  :'(

Peg hopes to get it up again, but no promises, and there is talk of doing one here.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on July 11, 2007, 02:33:49 PM
I am in the slow process of converting some of my Huge Residential Lots to grow in a different configuration, mostly so that its doesn't break up into clumps of buildings that I didn't intend to grow there. One I am working on now is the Sorrento, which is current 16 across 5 deep. However experience with using that kinda of lot proves that it just likes to break into little 4x5 peices. So instead it will be zoned 5 across, 16 deep. It taking awhile though since T Wrecks used ALOT of props in that one.

Next is MetroCity PartA, everything else seems pretty good as is. Also -- Victoria Towers will get a new Foundation, and will be set to its proper angle as it is situated in HK.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: hydra on July 11, 2007, 03:36:53 PM
 &hlpNice work on the CAM mod but i have problem i can not find the COBALTTOWER001 anywhere and i have been to the site and it's geberish to me can you help me please.

Regards Hydra.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sarjm on July 11, 2007, 04:50:00 PM
@ hydra
http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3864
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 15, 2007, 01:26:03 PM
Hello Barby and all the rest of the CAM team,

I am unable to find the download like on the Sim Board, the link given in the CAM Cleanitol File is as follows:
http://www.yuhisa.com/cgi/c-board/c-board.cgi?cmd=one;page=17;id=

What am I missing on this page? I am unable to find a link to a download here.

Also, several of the dependency's model files are DAT's and not SC4MODEL's, does that matter at all?

I've got every other CAM dependency but this one-I need help!

Thanks!

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 15, 2007, 01:31:46 PM
@BigSlark: If Google Language Tools can be trusted, I think there is heavy demand for the file during a specific time period and it has been made temporarily unavailable... ()what()

You might try back later...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 15, 2007, 05:00:14 PM
So the server has been overloaded due to CAM preparations? That stinks, I'll have to find the lot and delete it now.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on July 15, 2007, 05:09:45 PM
@BigSlark

I just followed the link and it seems to be ok.

If you click on the (All View) it changes a bit like the lex and at least you can see the lots.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg295.imageshack.us%2Fimg295%2F9777%2F07162007010733iv5.jpg&hash=171e5f6fcd708e6bf6373215598ba25d4711d221)



Everyone I just clicked on downloaded no probs

I hope that helps

:satisfied:
TTC
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 15, 2007, 11:04:10 PM
Thanks TTC, since I know the name of the .zip now, I googled for "modcoruscant1.zip" and the only result took me right to the page. If anyone else is having this problem I hope it helps.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 16, 2007, 01:18:04 AM
On page 11 I posted a how to for the Japanese models. The LEX has not been affected by demand for the CAMeLots but it seems as though the Japanese sites have had bandwidth problems.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mayor Abe on July 17, 2007, 03:21:57 AM
Has an exact date been pinpointed for release?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 17, 2007, 05:48:14 AM
Not yet, depends on how soon I can get the readme written. ::)
But it won't last too long... $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 18, 2007, 04:56:58 PM
*Patiently Waiting*  /wrrd%&

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 19, 2007, 05:36:37 AM
The wait will be worth it. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on July 19, 2007, 11:53:39 AM
Quote from: BigSlark on July 18, 2007, 04:56:58 PM
*Patiently Waiting*  /wrrd%&

Cheers,
Kevin

I second this thought...

Quote from: Bluebeard on July 19, 2007, 05:36:37 AM
The wait will be worth it. :thumbsup:

...and this one!

Great work, everyone. Though I haven't quite figured out the complexities of this yet, I do look forward to playing around with it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mayor Abe on July 19, 2007, 01:07:21 PM
Certainly. I cant wait to see some of my cities after this mod. &apls &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 19, 2007, 05:25:30 PM
*waiting for the awsome event in LEX*
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sumwonyuno on July 21, 2007, 07:58:58 PM
To All,

I think I have all the needed dependencies for all the CAMeLots available for download.  However, I have found a problem with two lots; I don't know if it's just me and wonder if other people experienced it too.

When I did the plopalllots cheat to see all the new buildings and if there were missing items, I found two empty lots that had the base lot, and props, but no building.  I narrowed the lots to IM$$7_6x5_The Crumbly Cheese Factory_84081cba and R$$$9_6x4_ SeaView Tower 2_a40ad9a7.  When I tried plopping each lot individually with lotplop, there was no semi-transparent preview, and when plopped, the game crashed.  All other lots work.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 21, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
what program your using??  ??? I didn't noticed anything..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 22, 2007, 01:34:08 AM
Sparky Gowne made the following comment in one of the CAM upload sets.
QuoteThe dependency documention in the readme files are *all* incomplete. I am currently working on getting everything documented but there are some I just can't find. **PLEASE** I humbly beg you, use SC4Tool (found at http://kurier.simcityplaza.de/details.php?file=315), use the "Analyser/Importer" to load up each of your lots, then use that to document the dependencies. Then update the readme! :)

I spent hours doing the Readmes via SC4Tool and made sure the links were all correct. It seems as though there are dependencies missing from some of the original lots but you only need to keep the models for CAM. In fact you are better off only keeping the models as that way you will not have buildings growing in lower growth stages.
I have no intention of redoing these as not only have I checked them and the only dependencies needed for the CAMeLots are correct but I also provided Cleanitol files and a master list for them.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on July 22, 2007, 02:02:00 AM
Understand the situation Barbyw and have all my ducks in a row for the CAM. Fun news today, in one of my cities two of my residentials matured into stage 8 camelots! I now have a R$$ Stage 8 Royale 4x3 and a R$$$ Stage 8 Fortune Serrene 6x3. I'am gazed. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 22, 2007, 02:05:42 AM
high5Tower: you seem to be definitely ready for the later stages then :thumbsup: I'm now nagging ripplejet to get the boring packaging side done then you can all try it out.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 22, 2007, 03:04:47 AM
Quote from: sumwonyuno on July 21, 2007, 07:58:58 PM
To All,

I think I have all the needed dependencies for all the CAMeLots available for download.  However, I have found a problem with two lots; I don't know if it's just me and wonder if other people experienced it too.

When I did the plopalllots cheat to see all the new buildings and if there were missing items, I found two empty lots that had the base lot, and props, but no building.  I narrowed the lots to IM$$7_6x5_The Crumbly Cheese Factory_84081cba and R$$$9_6x4_ SeaView Tower 2_a40ad9a7.  When I tried plopping each lot individually with lotplop, there was no semi-transparent preview, and when plopped, the game crashed.  All other lots work.

I found errors with both those lots and have a) updated the packs for new downloaders and b) uploaded a correction patch for those of you who have already downloaded the packs.
Please let me know if you find any more errors. Sorry about this but with so many lots one or two are bound to slip through the net.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sumwonyuno on July 22, 2007, 03:27:56 AM
Thank you BarbyW for resolving the problems!

I'm gonna go get the updates later [sleepy tonite and busy tomorrow], see if the empty lots are filled, and check for the nth if there are any other problems I can find  :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 24, 2007, 09:25:09 AM
For several weeks now I have concentrated on testing the new lots and have not spent time actually developing my CAM cities. I returned this morning to attempt a goal I had set for myself, a city with a population of 1,000,000. And, here it is, CAM8-1, my oldest CAM8 city. Population 1,000,106. I am sure many of you have reached this before, but for me it is a personal best. And with room left and demand high, who knows where I can take this.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg232.imageshack.us%2Fimg232%2F7096%2Fcam81jul11351185293219nw2.jpg&hash=15c5c08d1be6f176750560761cc40af8236c0b50)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg232.imageshack.us%2Fimg232%2F104%2Fcam81jul71351185293239sw6.jpg&hash=2c53855bf43d4380fd85acc99848aa11729baf90)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on July 24, 2007, 11:06:00 AM
Congratulations on reaching 1 million population, shoreman905! You've got a lot of room left on that tile, too. I bet you can push it even higher.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 24, 2007, 11:24:30 AM
I have to admit that the cities I've seen being developed by the CAMsters have exceeded my wildest imaginations I had on the mod when I started it. ::)

For your information, the Readme is well underway... 10 pages written so far... "$Deal"$
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 24, 2007, 03:28:45 PM
That sounds like "A short dissertation on the development, installation, and use of CAM in Sim City 4 Rush Hour and Deluxe editions" than readme, RippleJet!  :D

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 24, 2007, 03:33:13 PM
And it is now double that size, Kevin ::) or so Ripplejet tells me.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 24, 2007, 05:19:13 PM
LOL @ Rippjet and barby  ;D

shoreman - Hoooolllly COW!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o That's unbelievable!!! :o :o
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 24, 2007, 05:31:51 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 24, 2007, 03:33:13 PM
And it is now double that size, Kevin ::) or so Ripplejet tells me.

I'm stopping for tonight... at page 22 ::)
Will continue tomorrow...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 24, 2007, 09:07:11 PM
That does it-I'm getting this readme bound for my living room bookshelves!  :D

All kidding aside, I'm glad to hear CAM is getting close. I haven't hit the "development wall" in my new region yet, but I think I'm getting close...

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on July 25, 2007, 02:28:11 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on July 24, 2007, 05:31:51 PM
I'm stopping for tonight... at page 22 ::)
Will continue tomorrow...

No wonder people skip readme files $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 25, 2007, 02:48:19 AM
I skim read the one pagers as it is.  22 pages....  &mmm  We'll see.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Andreas on July 25, 2007, 03:07:38 AM
So you expect me to translate a 30-something pages readme file? No way! ;)

But seriously, although I was able to follow the development of the CAM with one eye, I'm eager to read the full documentation - two or three times, if necessary. I did the same with the NAM readme, and it was really insightful (and answered nearly all of the questions that constantly pop up in the NAM threads).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mayor Abe on July 25, 2007, 03:10:38 AM
Wow. 1 million in a large city tile. That mod must work wonders. I just got 1 million in my entire region.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 25, 2007, 03:19:37 AM
Quote from: Andreas on July 25, 2007, 03:07:38 AM
So you expect me to translate a 30-something pages readme file? No way! ;)

:P

And I also hope you could make the installer for the CAM ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 25, 2007, 05:05:56 AM
30 pages for a Read Me?.
   Are you serious?.I can barely stand reading 1 page from a RL book. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 25, 2007, 05:59:44 AM
Ahh, BB, this will be much more interesting than any book you have ever picked up. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on July 25, 2007, 06:18:55 AM
I'll be honest. I skim-read at most readme files. I'll have a closer look if I have a problem with a lot/BAT/mod, though.

I have a slightly different question for the testers... Just how much stress is your transport network under? I imagine alot...  :D

I'm looking forward to giving this a go. I have several fresh regions at the ready.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on July 25, 2007, 06:25:14 AM
Quote from: cammo2003 on July 25, 2007, 06:18:55 AM
... Just how much stress is your transport network under? I imagine alot...  :D

This mod it's going to make what the MAxis didn't with the Rush Hour, testing your ability to build networks to hold all this population. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on July 25, 2007, 06:29:45 AM
Hello Bluebeard. Let me put it this way. I've played the CAM since beta 5. Never did I have to go through a complex installation or un-installation process. When I read the above "22 page" statement I thought to myself   "Hmmm....Tage must be writing a comprehensive overview of what the CAM is and what it does."  Kind of like that old Prima Strategy Guide. One didn't actually have to purchase the book to play the game but it was helpful for those who really like to dig into the inner workings of things.

Perhaps there will be two readme's? An installation readme and a strategy guide type of readme? I've not seen any drafts so I am probably speaking out of turn.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 25, 2007, 06:50:58 AM
JM I think it's great that this mini guide for Cam is getting written but now I gotta go shopping for a printer or will this be available in paperback?. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 25, 2007, 08:25:08 AM
About transportation networks. I was concerned with that when this started, however the mod was quite friendly towards transportation. Rayden is correct though, some thought will have to be put into the planning for such large populations. The pedestrian rate has been changed, so more Sims are walking around your CBD. That means careful placement of subway stations and bus stops relieve much of the vehicle traffic. I had to experiment, but it all seemed to work out. I use it all, heavy rail, subway, bus and monorail, but I am sure you folks will fine tune the transportation even better when you get your hands on CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 25, 2007, 09:06:50 AM
Quote from: Bluebeard on July 25, 2007, 06:50:58 AM
JM I think it's great that this mini guide for Cam is getting written but now I gotta go shopping for a printer or will this be available in paperback?. :thumbsup:

You mean you bought the only new computer not bundled with a free printer/scanner/fax machine/elevator/walkie talkie?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 25, 2007, 09:33:48 AM
Well besides the pc I did buy the Never Crapper 2000.Now I don't need to leave the computer when mother nature calls. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on July 25, 2007, 09:56:37 AM
Quote from: Rayden on July 25, 2007, 06:25:14 AM
This mod it's going to make what the MAxis didn't with the Rush Hour, testing your ability to build networks to hold all this population. ;)

That's what I figured.

@ Diggis: some of us custom build.  :P

Sounds like I'm going to spend a bit more time tweaking the capacities of my central stations, then. I've already tweaked most of the major terminals I have to near 100,000.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 25, 2007, 10:44:42 AM
True cammo, but I know that BB didn't  :P

BTW guys, this looks very exciting, I'm just debating whether I want to reinstall my plugins.  &mmm Again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on July 25, 2007, 11:01:14 AM
22-page read-me or not, I'm very excited! If I'm honest, I'll need the read-me just to figure out how to make it work!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on July 25, 2007, 12:19:42 PM
Quote from: jmyers2043 on July 25, 2007, 06:29:45 AM
Perhaps there will be two readme's? An installation readme and a strategy guide type of readme? I've not seen any drafts so I am probably speaking out of turn.

I think instead of calling the it 2 read-mes it should be a Readme install and CAM tutorial...
Anyways Im looking forward to see what else happens here - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on July 25, 2007, 12:30:48 PM
Personally it could be 100+ pages and I'd read every word. I've noticed in the past that when I didn't read the read me I had problems and when I did read the read me I didn't. And anyhow its called a read me for a reason inst it?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sebes on July 25, 2007, 01:01:13 PM
You're right on that Teacat!   "$Deal"$

I recommend reading (at least printing ) RippleJets 22 pages. When testing the CAM my main problem was that information needed to proper play the game and understand the changes was scattered over many pages on a CAM thread, not making it easy to find back what you are looking for... 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on July 25, 2007, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: sebes on July 25, 2007, 01:01:13 PM
You're right on that Teacat!   "$Deal"$

I recommend reading (at least printing ) RippleJets 22 pages. When testing the CAM my main problem was that information needed to proper play the game and understand the changes was scattered over many pages on a CAM thread, not making it easy to find back what you are looking for... 

That's a good idea. I'll definitely be printing it out when it's all said and done!

Quote from: patfirefghtr on July 25, 2007, 12:19:42 PM
I think instead of calling the it 2 read-mes it should be a Readme install and CAM tutorial...

That's also a good idea. If a 22-page read-me is necessary, I'd say a tutorial probably is, too! But, that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 25, 2007, 03:12:43 PM
Well, I've just sent a 27-page manual to Barby for reading... and posting it on the BSC board at the moment...

And yes, it's more like a manual than a readme, but including instructions for the installation. ()stsfd()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 25, 2007, 04:06:30 PM
I have read it and it is simple enough for those who don't want or need the extra information but detailed enough for the ones who do. The important parts are the installation and non CAMpatible mods. It is very clear and concise so don't worry about it being overwhelming.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 25, 2007, 04:16:26 PM
Quote from: thundercrack83 on July 25, 2007, 11:01:14 AM
22-page read-me or not, I'm very excited! If I'm honest, I'll need the read-me just to figure out how to make it work!

Me too!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 25, 2007, 05:12:22 PM
Well, well RippleJet. I'm very, very, VERY happy to hear you're finished with the ReadMe.

So, does this mean that CAM Public Release 1.0 close?

Cheers,
Kevin

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 25, 2007, 08:54:00 PM
good question bigslark!  ;D Is the CAM going to release sometime this week?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on July 25, 2007, 10:05:26 PM
I am with Barby on this as I've just read the draft. Most important part is the removal of non-compatible mods. And there are a couple of installation options that you'll want to consider. There are some charts and tables for the detail oriented.

I don't want to build the CAM up too much because some may be un-impressed.  I can say that I've been playing since beta 5. I'll not go back to Rush Hour even if I only have CAM beta 8 for the rest of my SimCity life. There are some subtle and some not so subtle changes in game play that have made things fresh and new.  The game is the same but it is different.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on July 26, 2007, 12:49:08 AM

Ohhh WOW Jmyers by what you said makes me ummm reallly want CAM... I cant wait to have it...
How hard is it to make a building compliant to CAM anyways???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 26, 2007, 12:58:16 AM
Basically to make a building CAMpatible requires Wou's new X Tool but that is delayed due to a severe case of RLS.
What I can offer to do is to make a desc and basic lot - just the building on Maxis textures - if a model is sent to me and return it for lotting and release by the originator. This is only until Wou can finish the program for final release.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on July 26, 2007, 01:02:27 AM

Ahh ok kewl thank you Barby for the quick response  &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on July 26, 2007, 07:58:56 AM
Quote from: Ripplejet sanWell, I've just sent a 27-page manual to Barby for reading... and posting it on the BSC board at the moment...

And yes, it's more like a manual than a readme, but including instructions for the installation.

:o Wow !! :o A manual over 27-pages!?
I feel faint when the huge work is imagined. /wrrd%&
I'm sorry to I can't help to your work.
however, I'll try to announce all of tihs greatest mod CAM to my country with japanese!! :)

&apls Thank you very much Ripplejet san , Barby san , and lot of great CAM's staffs !! &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 26, 2007, 08:21:51 AM
Here is nutty idea.
  Since this is like a expansion then why not stick in a nice little package and sell it.So not only do folks have CAM all together the site can live on from the sales.Just a thought. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on July 26, 2007, 10:18:13 AM
bb with the good thoughts,:thumbsup: so is it possible?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jplumbley on July 26, 2007, 11:34:08 AM
Quote from: Bluebeard on July 26, 2007, 08:21:51 AM
Here is nutty idea.
  Since this is like a expansion then why not stick in a nice little package and sell it.So not only do folks have CAM all together the site can live on from the sales.Just a thought. :thumbsup:

Two words.  Copyright Law.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 26, 2007, 11:50:53 AM
Well, the CAM is too small to put on a disc.
But include the NAM and all CAMeLots (with dependencies) and we would fill a dvd...

And call it SC 4½ ;D

Quote from: jplumbley on July 26, 2007, 11:34:08 AM
Two words.  Copyright Law.

Yeah, if it was sold... but it could be given for free, as a "thank you for your donation"... I think I've seen that arrangement somewhere else... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 26, 2007, 12:10:11 PM
Yes a Thank-you Gift sounds excellent and keeps everyone out of prison. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on July 26, 2007, 12:31:13 PM
if you include every "official" CAMelot then i would "donate" to it
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 26, 2007, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on July 26, 2007, 11:50:53 AM
Well, the CAM is too small to put on a disc.
But include the NAM and all CAMeLots (with dependencies) and we would fill a dvd...

And call it SC 4½ ;D

Yeah, if it was sold... but it could be given for free, as a "thank you for your donation"... I think I've seen that arrangement somewhere else... ::)

Superb idea...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 26, 2007, 03:29:10 PM
Getting closer...

The 28 pages long CAM 1.0 Manual is attached to this post.
Thus everybody can have a chance to read it before getting a chance to install the game! ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sober on July 26, 2007, 03:33:36 PM
Awesome! Now I just have to get my region's population there...

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: vester on July 26, 2007, 03:36:36 PM
RippleJet: For easy finding maybe you should also attach it to the first post in this thread or start a new thread: CAM - Colossus Addon Mod, the Manual.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 26, 2007, 03:41:12 PM
Sweet! Thank you RippleJet! I've just skimmed through it, and it seems that even development over a region will allow it keep a rural feeling for a very, very long time.

I can't wait for the release...

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 26, 2007, 03:41:47 PM
Good point Sober, this is most definately a regional mod. Single city development will not get you the results you are looking for. When testing I tried never to play the same city twice in a row (although that was hard when CAM8-1 started zooming up). I also made sure to grow some agricultural cities, as JMyers, D66 and Cnut have added some really nice farms. Moving around kept the game fresh each day as well.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 26, 2007, 03:51:35 PM
just read it start to finish, fantastic cheers ripplejet. is there any particular way i should install the NAM to ensure no conflict with pathfinding or does the CAM just override.... thats the impression i got but i would like clarification on that point.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 26, 2007, 03:55:23 PM
The pathfinding plugin that's included in the CAM will override the one installed by NAM as long as the one from CAM is loaded later.
The installer will put the CAM into folder a_CAM and the pathfinding in folder z_CAM. Thus, only if you move the folders yourself will the loading sequence screw up. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 26, 2007, 03:59:10 PM
thanks
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sober on July 26, 2007, 04:04:59 PM
About the Eternal Commuters situation:

currently my region tiles are in a Z pattern (like the tetris piece), but let's say I start another city and create a 4-city tile square. I get what it's trying to say, so just to be sure, this problem should only happen if I connect all four cities to each other near the corners? It says connecting A and B and/or C and D is fine, but don't do B and C or D and A, but what about let's say, connecting near a halfway point (or at least much further from the tile's corners), then is connecting A -> B -> C ->D acceptable?

Also I may have a handful of Cobb's and DT's lots that I'm pretty sure are in the CAM that I left the original lots in my plugins folder that I didn't move out or delete the .sc4lot files yet and have already grown. Also, what about stage 8 buildings from Maxis already grown in my cities? Should I demolish them or just let them be?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 26, 2007, 04:13:12 PM
Quote from: Sober on July 26, 2007, 04:04:59 PM
let's say I start another city and create a 4-city tile square. I get what it's trying to say, so just to be sure, this problem should only happen if I connect all four cities to each other near the corners? It says connecting A and B and/or C and D is fine, but don't do B and C or D and A, but what about let's say, connecting near a halfway point (or at least much further from the tile's corners), then is connecting A -> B -> C ->D acceptable?

Yes, if you want to connect all four cities, the border connections should be as far away from the common corner as possible. ;)


Quote from: Sober on July 26, 2007, 04:04:59 PM
Also I may have a handful of Cobb's and DT's lots that I'm pretty sure are in the CAM that I left the original lots in my plugins folder that I didn't move out or delete the .sc4lot files yet and have already grown.

You need to keep all lots of buildings that have already grown, of course!
The CAMeLots on LEX all have unique TGI's and will not replace any existing lots that have grown as stage 8.


Quote from: Sober on July 26, 2007, 04:04:59 PM
Also, what about stage 8 buildings from Maxis already grown in my cities? Should I demolish them or just let them be?

Nothing happens to existing stage 8 Maxis lots. They will still be standing and fully functional even after installing the CAM. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sober on July 26, 2007, 04:24:16 PM
Alright thanks! Looks like when the CAM is out I'll be all ready and prepared.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on July 26, 2007, 07:00:16 PM
Hi,

I'm just going through the CAM manual in heady anticipation of it's release. I have one small question about the Census Drives table though. The I-R column is as follows:


R$$$  0%
R$$   (1%)
R$     20%

Why is the R$ entry 20% instead of 100%. Aren't farms like CS$ and ID where all their workers are low income? Where do the other 80% of workers come from? I checked the original thread linked in the manual and it also has the 20% value but no explanation of why it is different.

Great idea putting some R$$ into all work types too. I can't think of any workplace that doesn't need at least some middle class to work in management etc.

good work!

bendy
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on July 26, 2007, 10:53:33 PM
well im going camping in the rain, so ill be reading it good and proper

thanks

JOe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 26, 2007, 10:56:55 PM
Don't get it wet. :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 27, 2007, 12:01:51 AM
Quote from: bendy on July 26, 2007, 07:00:16 PM
Why is the R$ entry 20% instead of 100%. Aren't farms like CS$ and ID where all their workers are low income? Where do the other 80% of workers come from? I checked the original thread linked in the manual and it also has the 20% value but no explanation of why it is different.

I do not have an extensive answer to that. Farming is handled differently than the other RCI types. :-\
If you look at the workforce drives you will also see that uneducated poor sims demand a lot more than 100% farming jobs...

One explanation to this might be the fact that not only the farm houses provide jobs. There are jobs in the fields as well (1 per tile).
Maybe the actual number of jobs a farm offers is 20% of the sum of the farm house itself and all fields that belong to it...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cdesvar on July 27, 2007, 01:45:19 PM
I m %confuso the readme is done. has the CAM been uploaded yet? i can't wait. and  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 27, 2007, 01:52:33 PM
CAM should be uploaded early next week. Ripplejet is away for the weekend.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rafonc on July 27, 2007, 03:33:20 PM
 Great work guys. I have read the readme and now i know how big is the difference and how much better will game be  :) We all have been waiting to test this few months,so just a few days isnt much ;)
I am now waiting CAM to start a new region and see how this works.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: hydra on July 27, 2007, 09:23:06 PM
Having to say that I was not happy with this mod because i got a bug from one of the links and i had to reinstall windows and all my work i have download like satrcraft simcity4 GTA SA stuff and now it's going to take time to get it all back.

But overall this Mod it great.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 27, 2007, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: hydra on July 27, 2007, 09:23:06 PM
Having to say that I was not happy with this mod because i got a bug from one of the links and i had to reinstall windows and all my work i have download like satrcraft simcity4 GTA SA stuff and now it's going to take time to get it all back.

But overall this Mod it great.

As in a virus? I've downloaded and used all CAM files that have been released and have had none of my Anti-Virus or Spyware scanners go off...

Could you tell us what happened over in Technical Help (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=45.0)?

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on July 28, 2007, 05:17:46 AM
well guys I am pretty excited about CAM. I cant wait to get both the Island Harbourview and the Olympian City Mall rendered and exported for the 1st official CAM BATs (at least from the HongKongAsianBatTeam). Indeed these are some of the biggest BATs I have made in a while. Their capacity numbers are worthy of CAM.

Meanwhile I have uploaded a new building over at Simtropolis just for something new. BarbyW, if you want to CAM it (since I don't have the CAM tool yet) go ahead. The capacity numbers will only be slightly higher than the ones I've used, prolly around 5,000+/- capacity, and I suggest it to be stage 8/9. Anyway hopefully I will get Island Harbourview done soon.  :satisfied:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on July 28, 2007, 05:54:16 AM
Well done on the Read Me.  &apls

Very clear and easy to understand. Thank you all for all of your hard work over the past few months. I know that many many people will appreciate this, I being one of them. It is really going to revolutionise the game and bring back all the excitement of seeing the new stages growing.

On behalf of all the Lurkers - Thank you very much ;)


Regards
Derry
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 28, 2007, 07:12:24 AM
Thanks, bixel. I'll go and get it and make a new CAM lot so that your original is not overwritten. Until Wou finishes the X Tool if you want CAMeLots making send me the model by email - PM me for my email address - and I will return a basic lot. That is a lot with just the building on and the desc with CAM stats. Then you can lot it and upload it.
That offer goes for anyone who makes BATs. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 28, 2007, 08:20:09 AM
Do you have to go full blown CAM?.
   The part of CAM that has me interested is the Industry and Farm lots.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: zero7 on July 28, 2007, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 28, 2007, 07:12:24 AM
Thanks, bixel. I'll go and get it and make a new CAM lot so that your original is not overwritten. Until Wou finishes the X Tool if you want CAMeLots making send me the model by email - PM me for my email address - and I will return a basic lot. That is a lot with just the building on and the desc with CAM stats. Then you can lot it and upload it.
That offer goes for anyone who makes BATs. :thumbsup:

A quick question about X-Tool.  Is it a single program incorporating PIM and LE or are there two separate programs?  I'm just thinking that if CAM is about to be released it would be good to get PIM-X out into the community as it is important for correct occupancy values etc.  Are we waiting for the (very nice, but not as important) LE functionality to be finished before X-Tool gets released or is everything too integrated for an early PIM only release?



 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 28, 2007, 09:58:54 AM
It is a single program incorporating all the functions of PIM and eventually LE. At the moment the LE function is limited to a preview only. There are also other odds and ends that need tidying before public release and we can't hurry wouanagaine. I can ask Wou if he will release the latest beta but he also wants to provide an extensive manual so that the community can get the most out of it. We shall see what we can do but until then I am more than happy to make descriptors and basic lots for anyone.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: zero7 on July 28, 2007, 10:16:22 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 28, 2007, 09:58:54 AM
We shall see what we can do but until then I am more than happy to make descriptors and basic lots for anyone.

That's fine.  It's far better that it's fully tested than it is released at the same time as CAM.  Looks like you'll be busy making desc files for people for a little while  ;D


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 28, 2007, 10:40:27 AM
@BB CAM will operate just like your regular plugins. You will need the CAM 1.0 files, but then you can put any CAMpatable lot into your plugins. What you don't have can't grow. So, if you like the great farming lots by JMyers,D66 and CNut, only put those into you plugins, any industrial or commercial CAMeLots you desire can be there as well. The only required files will be the main mod, CAM 1.0. I have set up CAM rural, CAM urban and CAM industrial folders which I DatPacked and then shuffle into a city depending on what I wish to grow there. Once you get to experimenting, you will find your own system.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 28, 2007, 11:47:03 AM
Thanx Shoreman.
  I guess the idea of reading 20 plus pages kinda tossed me overboard. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 28, 2007, 12:08:15 PM
A note to bixel ;D your Seaview Tower has made into a stage 13 R$$ on a 3x8 lot. It has 13573 R$$ and 24587 R$ when dilapidated. I would like your permission to upload this with the model to the LEX in your name.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on July 28, 2007, 06:57:37 PM
@ BarbyW Whoa those are pretty high numbers, relative to actual HK occupancy my buildings are actually double that for reasons of fitting high sim population in small areas, however 13,000 is too much - its about triple realistic view, I'd say 9,500 tops, there are several buildings I have - like the TaiYuan series that needs to be updated, those numbers should be higher about 9000 for the 6x6 13000+ for the 8x6 and about 8000 for the 3x8. Arch, Harbourside should be slightly higher than the Seaview, about 1000+ more.

The very big ones, MetroCityII and upcoming Island Harbouview will have staggering numbers about 13,000+ on up. Also even though Seaview Crescent is very tall, it occupies a small space 4x8 so this should be a stage 9-10 building, in my view. But that is only because the upcoming projects are so large.

Adjust the numbers and stage slightly and then upload it as a CAM. :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 29, 2007, 06:08:01 AM
The figures generated by the X tool are based on the filling degree of the building within the LOD box. The stage is calculated on the occupancy per tile so for this building I set the filling degree to a lower percentage than it really appears to have and obtained an occupancy of R$$ 10380 with 18803 R$ when dilapidated. This computed to a stage 12 on a lot of 3x8. By making the lot bigger I can reduce the growth stage. I am happy with it being stage 12 but if you would like a bigger lot and a lower growth stage I can do that. I did test the old Liberte and that actually comes out as a Stage 11 as the overall size of the footprint is big but the actual building volume is low.
We all have to rethink how we allocate stages etc as the Maxis standard is based on occupancy per tile so bigger lots become lower stages for the same building. The occupancy per building is based on the amount the building fills the imaginary box that holds the building. For a building like Seaview Crescent that nearly fills the box you will get a higher occupancy than Liberte which has only a small portion of the box that is building. The X tool generates figures very much in line with Maxis PIM for occupancy but in the X tool you can adjust more accurately by adjusting the filling degree instead of best guessing. The X tool also generates an accurate lot at the correct stage unlike LE where you are left to your own devices ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 29, 2007, 07:40:08 PM
Hey - I was just installing all the CAMelots in preparation for the big release and I have a quick question...

The CAM affects only growable lots and only growable lots are included in the CAMelot sets that have been released, correct? I just noticed that the Cleanitol remove list for the old lots includes both ploppable and growable versions...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sober on July 29, 2007, 09:04:11 PM
Yeah, the CAM cleanitol targets all the growable and ploppable .sc4lot files from the old releases. of course if you really wanted you could keep the ploppables, or even the old growable lots, though that wouldn't work out that well after you have the CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 29, 2007, 10:54:20 PM
Most old ploppable (functional) lots have the same errors as the old growable ( stage 8 ) lots...
wrong occupancy, too high garbage pollution and too high water consumption.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on July 29, 2007, 11:26:06 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on July 27, 2007, 12:01:51 AM
I do not have an extensive answer to that. Farming is handled differently than the other RCI types. :-\
If you look at the workforce drives you will also see that uneducated poor sims demand a lot more than 100% farming jobs...

One explanation to this might be the fact that not only the farm houses provide jobs. There are jobs in the fields as well (1 per tile).
Maybe the actual number of jobs a farm offers is 20% of the sum of the farm house itself and all fields that belong to it...

Thanks RippleJet, I guess the geek inside me isn't going to get satisfaction on this one. I did also notice that the workforce drives for IR were ridiculously high but wasn't too worried about that since they are meant to add up to over 100% anyway.

Your explanation makes sense. The farmhouse job listing could be  the number of jobs with a 'standard' number of fields so it is reduced when actually calculating how many jobs are available.

BTW, does anyone know if the SimGoober farms are to be made campatible in the same way as the Newman Inc and BLS ones have been?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 29, 2007, 11:40:10 PM
Eventually all simgoober and CSX farms will be updated but at the moment they are already CAMpatible in that they will grow with CAM in plugins. There are currently no SG or CSX farms over stage 3 so that will need to be looked at. I am waiting to hear from SG and will do some updating when I know how he wants it doing.
Regarding the Cleanitol list, remember those lists can be used to just check if you have the necessary files. There is no obligation to remove anything although even if you do you will find the removed files in My Documents\SimCity 4\BSC_Cleanitol in a sub folder with the date of removal so you can easily retrieve any you do want back.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 30, 2007, 03:49:21 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on July 29, 2007, 10:54:20 PM
Most old ploppable (functional) lots have the same errors as the old growable ( stage 8 ) lots...
wrong occupancy, too high garbage pollution and too high water consumption.

Quote from: BarbyW on July 29, 2007, 11:40:10 PM
Regarding the Cleanitol list, remember those lists can be used to just check if you have the necessary files. There is no obligation to remove anything although even if you do you will find the removed files in My Documents\SimCity 4\BSC_Cleanitol in a sub folder with the date of removal so you can easily retrieve any you do want back.

OK, but no new ploppable lots are being released as yet, correct? I'd like to get rid of the old growable lots but I don't necessarily want to lose the ability to plop some of these unless there will be alternative plops...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 05:00:17 AM
I have no intention of updating any lots from other than BSC. I am currently working through cerulean's and have have just about done the growables but the ploppables will have to wait for the time being. I have to do the COBB growables next. Hopefully I shall be able to release the updated growables in the next week to 10 days as they are in testing at the moment. The lots will have the same TGIs as the originals so they must be removed before the new ones are installed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 30, 2007, 06:55:17 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 29, 2007, 11:40:10 PM
There is no obligation to remove anything ...

Quote from: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 05:00:17 AM
The lots will have the same TGIs as the originals so they must be removed before the new ones are installed.

Now I'm totally confused... %wrd ??? :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 07:10:41 AM
QuoteThe lots will have the same TGIs as the originals so they must be removed before the new ones are installed.

This only applies to the updated cerulean and cobb32118 lots. You only need to remove the originals if you want the updates as they will have the same TGI and lot as the originals.

The CAM Cleanitol file only dealt with the models not the lots and for anything other than cerulean and cobb32118 lots it will be entirely up to individuals whether they keep the original lots from, for example, NDEX or bixel. Shortly I shall start on garyreggae's lots and the same will apply to them as the updates will have the same TGI as the originals.

It is a bit confusing but I have no remit to update any lots other than BSC so it will be a case of either removing the non BSC growables or living with lots growing at the wrong stage with poor stats. Any updated BSC lots will have, if they are over stage 8 for RC and 3 for I, the CAMelot query and additional OGs for the CAMeLot counter.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 30, 2007, 08:00:55 AM
Does this mean we just have to remove the existing models, but the lot file will remain the same? So if it's already growing it won't be an issue?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 08:41:04 AM
Models should not be removed unless they now form part of a MEGA pack like those from cerulean or cobb32118 - and that should have been done when the packs were installed. When I upload the updated lots I shall include a Cleanitol file for removal of the original lots but any grown in a city should not be affected. I have, for my own use only, run all simgoober's lots through the X Tool - and that was a long and tedious job ;D - I have been in and out of cities with the original lots in and none of the cities crashed so hopefully the same will apply with these for anyone else ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 30, 2007, 09:00:02 AM
Quote from: Diggis on July 30, 2007, 08:00:55 AM
Does this mean we just have to remove the existing models, but the lot file will remain the same? So if it's already growing it won't be an issue?

Alright, I think I've got it on the ploppable issue - removing the old ploppable lots will result in having no ploppables at all and keeping them in will not result in duplicate, CAM and non-CAM ploppables... for now, anyway.

For the growables (at least the BSC ones that you have permission to modify), keeping the old TGIs seems like the way to go, since it relieves you of the worry of removing lots that have already grown in some cities. Do I understand correctly, however, that the BSC lots included in the CAMelot packs that are already out (particularly SG and jestarr industrials, of which I have almost all) do not use the old TGIs?

This means that those original lots cannot be removed if they have already grown in our cities, so we must either deal with duplicate lot files or bulldoze all instances and remove the originals, correct?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 09:06:43 AM
At the moment none of the already uploaded CAMeLots are replacements for the originals. I just used what ever building came to hand to make as wide a variety as I could. They do not, therefore, use the old TGIs.
As I said I have just about finished cerulean's and will finish cobb32118's tomorrow. Once I have actually checked them in game - not all but a reasonable proportion - I shall have to package and then upload. For speed I shall reuse the original STEX images as the lot remains the same but the custom queries have been removed as well as the stats updated. I suspect I shall make one upload for each BATter with all lots in but I am not sure at the moment.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 30, 2007, 09:07:42 AM
Just a thought, If I don't have the original I would have to install that first and then use the cleanitol file, and then install the new CAM building?  I haven't done anything with this at the moment, just curious,
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 09:20:56 AM
You only need to download any lots that you do not have the models for and want to use. In that case you would only need to keep the model and there would be no need for the Cleanitol file. If it is for cerulean or cobb32118 updates the models are in MEGA packs so you would only need the packs and the new updated lots not the originals. Clear as mud? ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on July 30, 2007, 09:29:54 AM
Whew, Barby! &hlp

I remember when the BSC Farming EP came out a couple of years ago - the size of the release and the volume of questions kept you busy for a month or more, didn't it?

I admired your patience and thoughtfullness in responding to everyone's problems then and I can see we are about to witness a further display of those traits in the coming weeks... Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Indisguise on July 30, 2007, 10:40:26 AM
You can change the stats of standard growables (no TE lots, no special mods to it, acts like a Maxis growable) and reopen the game and the saved cities, done this countless times, no problems :thumbsup: no crash issues or anything.


The stats will to all the growables, change to the newly modded stats, cities once in a while will react very different, as the game updates the city to the new stats, pathfinding, power, water consumption, etc etc,. so depending on the amount of change to the stats of the buildings in the city, this could cause troubles for the city, and send it on a little roller coaster ride, but after playing the city for a while 5-10 yrs the city settles down to the new stats.

Plopables: here lies a major problem, resides in the save game (I think, ask Karybdis) but deleting or changing  the model, lot or desc file for a plopable can cause all sorts of issues, change them:

A: you have to bulldoze the lot and replop it for the new stats to take effect anyways
B: may cause a a save file corruption error if the file is deleted from the plugins (might be able to save the city with NHP tools, about a 50-50 shot)
C: a long list of bugs and issues occur when changing them or deleting, (budget slider bar to 0 being one)

this applies to your game with or without the CAM.

If you want to open older cities that include plopables and you wish to change them, Don't change the plopable files before:
1)first open the city
2)bulldoze the lots your going to change,
3)save the city,
4)apply the changes to the lots in question,
5)then reopen and replop and save the city

as for using the older files with the CAM, yes the will function, but using them may throw the game simulator out of wack because of improper stage levels and building stats. Won't crash your game, just make it very hard to play.

not removing the old files from your game, Manually or Cleanitol program,
gives the possibility of the old file growing and not the CAM lot,
also will double up on your files, about 1/2 which won't be used , this will cause the game to lag quicker.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 30, 2007, 11:17:08 AM
Indisguise - Nice post!  &apls &apls

I have a question... when is the CAM going to arrive? Is it this week?  %confuso
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 11:27:07 AM
Maybe, maybe not ;D &hlp but more than likely it is maybe :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: figui on July 30, 2007, 12:26:57 PM
ok, waiting patiently...
... well, almost patiently
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on July 30, 2007, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 11:27:07 AM
Maybe, maybe not ;D &hlp but more than likely it is maybe :P

Ok my friend hehehe.. still waiting!  ;D :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on July 30, 2007, 03:04:06 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 30, 2007, 11:27:07 AM
Maybe, maybe not ;D &hlp but more than likely it is maybe :P

Oooh, a Definitely Maybe! I'll be looking forward to it!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on July 31, 2007, 12:21:48 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 29, 2007, 11:40:10 PM
Eventually all simgoober and CSX farms will be updated but at the moment they are already CAMpatible in that they will grow with CAM in plugins. There are currently no SG or CSX farms over stage 3 so that will need to be looked at. I am waiting to hear from SG and will do some updating when I know how he wants it doing.

Thanks Barby. I figured that the existing farms would be CAMpatible in that they will work in their current stages. However I'm currently setting up a new plugins directory for a fresh start when the CAM is released and am keeping it CAM only. So I will avoid those farms for now.

Another question (I'll run out of them eventually I'm sure), is the CAM compatible with GrampaAls Prevent IR Lots mod? It's not listed in the README however many other maxis growable blockers are. If it is incompatible will the CAM be able to block these itself?

Thanks again

bendy

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 12:44:36 AM
GrampaAl's Prevent IR mod is included in the BSC No Maxis set from the LEX. This is CAMpatible providing it loads after CAM so I have the set in a ZZZ_ folder in plugins.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on July 31, 2007, 02:25:12 AM
Kool! Thanks Barby.

And now back to the waiting.......  ;) Well, and the dependancy downloading and installing.....  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 31, 2007, 04:26:42 AM
I've downloaded and read quickly the manual.  I must say it's so well written, I almost understood it.  :P

Great work on this guys.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 04:45:57 AM
Considering it it written by a Finn in English it is extremely well written and I gave it to my husband, who knows nothing about SC4, who declared it to be very  understandable.
The countdown begins ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 08:07:57 AM
Aside from a ton of numbers the Guide is very well written.So should someone wait to download other stuff before CAM or Can Cam come later?.Thanx
    Bottom line is a clean slate the best thing for this Mod?. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 08:41:34 AM
Depends what you want, BB, as there are not a lot of CAMeLots yet so you will need to grow Maxis stuff. If you want custom content then get all the ones you want plus all the CAMeLots etc but for the CAMeLot buildings don't keep the old lots - just the models as per the list on an earlier page in this thread. Any other custom lots that are stage 7 or below can be kept as they will just grow normally as will the farms.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 08:47:06 AM
Oh I see.Thanx Goddess :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 31, 2007, 08:57:56 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 04:45:57 AM
Considering it it written by a Finn in English it is extremely well written and I gave it to my husband, who knows nothing about SC4, who declared it to be very  understandable.
The countdown begins ;D

How did he feel about you going away with all these good looking blokes to the BSC weekend?   $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 31, 2007, 09:25:37 AM
Ahh but the BSC is the most honorable of associations. What worries could he have had?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 09:26:46 AM
IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN. GET READY. NEARLY THERE. ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 31, 2007, 09:31:33 AM
what, we talking hours minutes or days here????
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 09:31:54 AM
GO GET IT NOW :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 09:32:20 AM
Goddess your such as tease and we love you for it. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 31, 2007, 09:32:27 AM
omg its there
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 09:34:54 AM
I had to wait for Barby's previous message before I could press the upload button.
So the release was delayed for half a minute... :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 31, 2007, 09:43:54 AM
Thanks guys  &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BruceAtkinson on July 31, 2007, 09:47:19 AM
...July 31st, 2007 will mark an exciting day for SimCity fans from all over the world as the release of the CAM is now official!!  Congratulations to Ripplejet, BarbyW and all of the other talented individuals that have blessed us with this mighty MOD.....
    As some of you have already read from me, both here and in Simtropolis, I am constantly amazed at the Talent that is present within the SimCity communities.  Not being a modder or batter....I have benefitted enourmously with the models and creations available to us through the hard work of these individuals!  Thanks to you all, my SimCity gaming experience is constantly enriched on a daily basis!
    Part of my professional existence is seeking out and promoting Talent, mostly in the Music and Broadcast Industries....so recognising Talent is very important to me.  I hope that those 'powers to be' from Maxis/EA Games recognisies the enourmous Talent within our SimCity Communities and enlists their talent for furture development of the Simcity franchise......
   Again, congratulations to all who have contributed to the CAM Add-on, and to all who have created the numerous and wonderous models and bats we have come to enjoy!!
 &apls
 Bruce
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 09:50:57 AM
Yes I agree this is a historical day for the SC community.But as we all know what would history be without a few village idots.
    So is there a support thread yet for this awesome Mod because a village idot is need of support.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 31, 2007, 09:52:23 AM
as soon as anything is idoitproof someone invents a better idiot, but remember installing the CAM as a whole package which i am now doing, is quite a complex business... ensuring i get everything.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on July 31, 2007, 09:53:39 AM
WOW! Its done! Great job, everyone!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

...and I'm at work for another five hours. Life simply isn't fair!  &mmm

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 10:01:13 AM
Quote from: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 09:50:57 AM
    So is there a support thread yet for this awesome Mod because a village idot is need of support.Thanx

The CAM has its own board here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=185.0

This thread will be moved over there as soon as our webmaster has unlocked the CAM board. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 10:10:45 AM
Thanx RJ. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: zero7 on July 31, 2007, 10:23:40 AM
OK, so I guess I'm going to spend this evening starting a new CAM region instead of finishing Trellish Tower ...

Well done to everyone involved for getting this MOD up and running.  The way I play I expect it to be a while until I see any CAM stage lots appearing, but the challenge of a hugely populous region is now on.  It's going to be interesting to watch the difference CAM makes to the patterns of growth.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on July 31, 2007, 10:51:28 AM
Just installed it all after reading the manual 4 times over the weekend.

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 31, 2007, 11:32:31 AM
What a great day. I have been humbled by the experience to being a tester for this game breaking mod. I want to thank all BSC members who have been so kind and understanding. If only the general community could understand the moment to moment communications that have taken place behind the scenes. Members have stepped up and pitched in, taken on jobs that were out of the norm, and made it all fun and memorable. Team play has never been more evident than in a project this large and complicated. Who to thank, first and foremost Ripplejet, the benevolent headmaster who guided us all through, Barby, Lord what a task, done with love for the game (and a gentle hand to a newbie), and all the great lotters, batters and modders who tolerated my constant interuptions and questions. Thanks to all the friends I have made, in the BSC and the community, I remain at your humble service. And last but not least, the SC4D community, your interest and your patience has made this most enjoyable, please enjoy CAM, play it and expand your SC4 horizons....grateful to you all...David G
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: castironpigeon on July 31, 2007, 11:52:45 AM
I just found this mod: excellent idea. Quick question as I'm not at home now: when you download the installer does that include all the necessary files or do we need to install individual megapacks to make it work?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on July 31, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
this (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0) thread is what you need and also the CAMeLOTS if you want them from the LEX.

joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SlimShady on July 31, 2007, 11:59:49 AM
 What do you suggest the best way to approach this awesome new mod?

Should we start with a clean slate, reinstalling SC4 and removing all dolwloaded buildings we all might have as well as the NAM? Or are we safe to leave these buildings alone and use the cleanitol tool to help with the removal of buildings?

Also should we download the CAMeLot packs that are on sc4devotion in order to get the most from the mod? The ones for the RCI and farms.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mayor Abe on July 31, 2007, 12:04:01 PM
YES! Finaly. I can't wait to install this and fire up SC4. Good work and congrats to the whole CAM team.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 31, 2007, 12:04:56 PM
@ castironpigeon You will need the special CAM lots and the prop packs that associate with them. It may seem like a big job, however this mod will change the game for you and all the work will be worth it. Make sure you download the CAM essential file and look for the specially prepared lots to accompany the mod. Please use the cleanital files included in each.
@ SlimShady, a new region dedicated to CAM would be suggested, however the readme has suggestion concerning the introduction of CAM into an established region. The manual and readme is your key to successful operation of CAM, please take the time to go through it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 12:08:47 PM
Thanks Shoreman905 for your reply. :thumbsup:


Quote from: SlimShady on July 31, 2007, 11:59:49 AM
What do you suggest the best way to approach this awesome new mod?

Should we start with a clean slate, reinstalling SC4 and removing all dolwloaded buildings we all might have as well as the NAM? Or are we safe to leave these buildings alone and use the cleanitol tool to help with the removal of buildings?

For best gaming experience I recommend starting over with an empty region. But nothing stops you from installing and using the CAM with an existing region.
Just be sure you read the manual before installing it. ;)


Quote from: SlimShady on July 31, 2007, 11:59:49 AM
Also should we download the CAMeLot packs that are on sc4devotion in order to get the most from the mod? The ones for the RCI and farms.

Yes, since there are very few CAMeLots included in the mod itself you do need to download more of them in order to get a better variety in the upper stages.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 12:09:19 PM
Clean slate here so is there really any need of messing around with the Cleanitol?.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SlimShady on July 31, 2007, 12:13:14 PM
After reading the manual those were some questions I had. I do plan on starting a new region for this and I would like to thank everyone that was involved for sharing this beautiful gift with us. ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 12:13:42 PM
Not if the "vista slate" was clean, Bluebeard. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 12:23:08 PM
Um RJ was that a yes or no?.
    I havn't got the Cleanitol to work so I would really like to skip it.My game has only patches and a few Peg Sky Farms.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 12:30:34 PM
Sorry, Bluebeard. I shouldn't have mentioned your Vista...
If you do a fresh installation with basically nothing in your plugins folders before installing the CAM, you do not need to run the Cleanitol. ;)

And good luck with the CAM! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 12:35:55 PM
No need to be sorry RJ.You and the rest of the SC4D members have made my Vista pain a little easier to take so off to explore CAM and thanx again for all the help. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: thundercrack83 on July 31, 2007, 12:39:05 PM
OK! OK! OK! Outstanding! Outstanding! Outstanding!

This has just made my day! I'm going to download it now! Congratulations and many thanks to all who have labored on such an amazing project for such a long time! You guys are the greatest! Did I mention this was outstanding?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmdude1 on July 31, 2007, 02:17:54 PM
Ive just read through this topic from start to finish and i have also read the readme file.  this sounds like quiet an amazing project for all involved, as well as us click and download people. great work has been done by all. i do have a couple of general questions though, ive just started a new region with an intricate transportation system between some city maps (i use 1 city square for downtown with some high density res. and another city square for industry/res and the rest for res/low density com.) and i was wondering how this will effect the eternal commuters situation? my city connections arent gernerally close to the corners but there are a couple. also, my main downtown city with high density res. is already built up. i dont mind rezoning it all for this mod but is this advisable? maybe i could just let the empty city run for 5 yrs. to let the numbers reset themselves to zero?  i just dont want to lose my transport networks and other eye candy stuff such as seawalls and stuff which took a long time to place. thanks a lot for all your hard work and help!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dedgren on July 31, 2007, 03:02:12 PM
Hi folks...

You may be wondering where posts 402 on went.  I've got them, and I'll be reading them...

...vewwwy, vewwwwy carwwwfuwwwy...

...as my friend Elmer Fudd used to say.

Let's keep the discussion on the usual high plane until I get back to you, eh?

Thanks.


David
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmdude1 on July 31, 2007, 03:16:04 PM
uhm, i had some cam related questions in my last post, which has since been deleted, perhaps by mistake? could you repost it for me dedgren or just add your thoughts if you know the answers.

MOD EDIT:  I was moving your original post back, jmdude, when you posted this comment.  Thanks for your questions.  -DE
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on July 31, 2007, 03:19:40 PM
Quote from: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 12:23:08 PM
Um RJ was that a yes or no?.
    I havn't got the Cleanitol to work so I would really like to skip it.My game has only patches and a few Peg Sky Farms.Thanx

Any special reason not to having Cleanitol working? I really would like to know. And please post your Cleanitol problem at that tool's support thread here in this forum. - http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=236.0
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: jmdude1 on July 31, 2007, 02:17:54 PM
Ive just read through this topic from start to finish and i have also read the readme file.  this sounds like quiet an amazing project for all involved, as well as us click and download people. great work has been done by all. i do have a couple of general questions though, ive just started a new region with an intricate transportation system between some city maps (i use 1 city square for downtown with some high density res. and another city square for industry/res and the rest for res/low density com.) and i was wondering how this will effect the eternal commuters situation? my city connections arent gernerally close to the corners but there are a couple. also, my main downtown city with high density res. is already built up. i dont mind rezoning it all for this mod but is this advisable? maybe i could just let the empty city run for 5 yrs. to let the numbers reset themselves to zero?  i just dont want to lose my transport networks and other eye candy stuff such as seawalls and stuff which took a long time to place. thanks a lot for all your hard work and help!

Use the route query tool and see if you have any commuters passing around any city corners. If there are none or only very few, you should be safe. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on July 31, 2007, 04:45:13 PM
Hi all  :)

Before
Congratulation !!
Wonderful modd the CAM opened to public today!!
It's a happy anniversary today!!


well,
To the people who start the download CAM, CAMeLOT and lot of Dependencies files from today.
I made a LIST of these Dependencies on my site for Japanese CAM users.
(Amount of CAMeLOT open to the public by today. )

I think that the download of the dependence file becomes comparative ease when you see it. :thumbsup:
You can see it HERE (http://wiki.livedoor.jp/masahiromirai/d/CAM%20%2dDependencies%2d)
or
I'm appending it to this post.


I hope this little helps. ;)
Thank you !!


##### Edited 01/08/2007 #####
re-atached zip file.
##### Edited 07/08/2007 #####
re-atached zip file.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on July 31, 2007, 04:50:44 PM
Mas71 I have a listing of all CAMeLots to date with lot sizes,type,name and stage coming out in the next few days ( with help from Sebes), would that help your community? Unfortunately, I would have to send it in English. PM so we can coordinate.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sober on July 31, 2007, 04:52:13 PM
Holy moly, I started up one of my cities, and with the CAM, it just decided to explode with high-rises. My region didn't even break 800,000 yet and I've got skyscrapers all over the place.

Now I really have to be careful with zoning high-density.

Awesome job guys!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 04:53:30 PM
That's quite a list, Masuda-san! :thumbsup:
Maybe we should open a separate thread for the dependencies, combining your and Mightygoose's lists.


Quote from: shoreman905 on July 31, 2007, 04:50:44 PM
Mas71 I have a listing of all CAMeLots to date with lot sizes,type,name and stage coming out in the next few days ( with help from Sebes), would that help your community? Unfortunately, I would have to send it in English. PM so we can coordinate.

And that could be another thread! ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Sim Shady on July 31, 2007, 05:00:41 PM
 :satisfied: i see we got a user called slim shady; great minds think alike  :P

so i tried out the CAM, its awesome how much more diversified my farms are, normally i can only get one or two types of farm to grow, ive got all the farm fields out there now :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MAS71 on July 31, 2007, 05:09:54 PM
@Shoreman905 san
Wow!! It's great !!
(Sorry,,,Though I looked at your post in BSC-Bord,  I did not notice the existence. :-[)
When you have free time, Please send it to me.
Thank you very much Shoreman905 san and Sebes san !!


@Ripplejet san
Oh my,,,I'm sorry.
I find Mightygoose's useful list post now.
It was my unnecessarily meddlesome. :-[
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 05:15:26 PM
Quote from: MAS71 on July 31, 2007, 05:09:54 PM
Oh my,,,I'm sorry.
I find Mightygoose's useful list post now.
I have taken care even more. :-[

Don't be sorry for a good work!
It's always good to double-check certain things! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on July 31, 2007, 05:17:59 PM
i would be more than happy to co-operate on a list.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on July 31, 2007, 06:21:18 PM
This is a awesome Mod and I'm sorry if I got out of line but when you step on a great group of people like SC4D I kinda get a little upset. ;)

Oh Tag One thanx for new cam lots there awesome. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 31, 2007, 06:25:04 PM
Quote from: mightygoose on July 31, 2007, 05:17:59 PM
i would be more than happy to co-operate on a list.

Thank you, mightygoose! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 31, 2007, 11:14:52 PM
I had a quick look on the LEX and found 6th and 7th stage farms, but not 4 and 5.  Are these available.  I'm about to expand my region, and would love some newer farms.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on July 31, 2007, 11:25:11 PM
I have a couple of med style stage 4 and 5 farms to go and JMyers also has some stages 4 and 5. Two of the farms in my updated BLS Farms pack are stage 4. JMyers is working on his farms and I shall upload the med style ones soon.
Sorry, Diggis, you will just have to be patient.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on July 31, 2007, 11:28:11 PM
Nooooo!  I can't wait, must have CAM farms.   $%Grinno$%

To be honest, my computer is crashing at the moment anyways so I'm waiting till that is fixed before I download and install CAM. 

My CJ region is still in baby stages so I figure installing CAM shouldn't be to big an issue, and will do wonders for it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on July 31, 2007, 11:28:37 PM
Just fired it up on a mostly empty region.

Went from about 6,000 to 20,000 in less than half an hour. Fastest 20,000 I've had ever. This is a standalone city at the moment, by the way.

The best part? I've gotten no dilapidation since implementing CAM thus far. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. To be fair, half an hour isn't very long, but normally I would have demolished quite a few dilapidated buildings.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on July 31, 2007, 11:40:55 PM

OK so i have read and do understand what cam does but am still scared honestly to install it...
Just a few of my thoughts or delima's..


i know im seeming a bit paranoid but what im working on and have been has been real anti depression for me lol...
and i would just cry if anything gets losted....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 12:11:17 AM
Quote from: patfirefghtr on July 31, 2007, 11:40:55 PM
Reading... i do the readme's, but the cam's is a little confussing i click on the links for Manual and nothing??

The manual is available here (attached to the first post): http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0
Take your time reading it before installing it. ;)


Quote from: patfirefghtr on July 31, 2007, 11:40:55 PM
i know im seeming a bit paranoid but what im working on and have been has been real anti depression for me lol...
and i would just cry if anything gets losted....

Pat, be sure to make a backup copy of your region before trying out the CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 01, 2007, 12:14:22 AM
RippleJet thank you... i will do for sure - pat




Edit i did get the chance to read manual and finaly i think i got better grasp of CAM
but one further question in reguards to the connections of citys... I understand A-B-C-D-A
is bad w/current cities but say new region no citys period, so you can connect almost to the
same order A-B-C-D as long as D-A dont happen and then no A-C am i following that right???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 01:46:50 AM
Quote from: patfirefghtr on August 01, 2007, 12:14:22 AM
I understand A-B-C-D-A is bad w/current cities but say new region no citys period, so you can connect almost to the
same order A-B-C-D as long as D-A dont happen and then no A-C am i following that right???

A-B-C-D is definitely better than A-B-C-D-A.
However, there is a risk if you're playing only cities B and C for some time.
Commuters from A, B and C might start commuting to D and once you get to playing city D, you might have quite a number of commuters entering the city, with too few jobs available for them.

Since commuters only increase in numbers and never decrease, they will always influence the balance in the region.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 01, 2007, 02:40:16 AM

OK awesome ty RippleJet again you are awesome thank you very much... I got a real good grasp and i think i got all needed files woohoo I'm excited to try this out on a new map i made... ( Castia )
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: crushedcar on August 01, 2007, 06:35:02 AM
How will this affect my current plugins? Will my stage 8 buildings library be extremely huge or will they balance out?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: vester on August 01, 2007, 06:43:09 AM
Questions like that is answer over in the CAM - General Discussions (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1177.420) thead.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 08:01:56 AM
Quote from: vester on August 01, 2007, 06:43:09 AM
Questions like that is answer over in the CAM - General Discussions (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1177.420) thead.

Posts moved over here. ;)


Quote from: crushedcar on August 01, 2007, 06:35:02 AM
How will this affect my current plugins? Will my stage 8 buildings library be extremely huge or will they balance out?

I would recommend reading the manual first of all. :thumbsup:
If you do not keep your current stage 8 buildings, and download the existing CAMeLots off LEX, you will have a balanced distribution from stage 8 to stage 15. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 01, 2007, 08:26:22 AM
Just a thought, are we able to run models of lots we have downloaded through the x-tool and get them to the CAM stages? 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pvarcoe on August 01, 2007, 08:28:45 AM
Installed the CAM, ran the cleanitol, installed many camelot files, and fired up an existing region (Teton).
Very interesting results. Obviously the demands changed significantly,
mostly lower (although not all) as this region has a very small population right now.
It will be fun to play in new ways to meet the demand challenges.
And I am really looking forward to creating some new farming areas.

Very impressive job, I am really enjoying the CAM.
Thank you to the team for all the work you have put into it, (and excellent readme!)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 08:37:30 AM
Quote from: Diggis on August 01, 2007, 08:26:22 AM
Just a thought, are we able to run models of lots we have downloaded through the x-tool and get them to the CAM stages? 

Send the model(s) to me or Barby and we will make a descriptor file and a very basic lot (with only Maxis textures, nothing else).
The occupancy and all other properties will be according to the settings for CAM (as set by the "X Tool") and the stage will be according to CAM.

This offer is valid for everyone wanting to make CAMeLots and CAMpatible lots as long as Wouanagain'e "X Tool" is not available. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 01, 2007, 08:52:10 AM
Sorry, ripplejet, this was more of a question of when the X-Tool is available, will I be able to take a lot I downloaded ages ago, and update the model using the tool so I can keep using it?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Andreas on August 01, 2007, 08:58:48 AM
The X-Tool will be released soon, once wouanagaine has fixed a couple of bugs that have been discovered recently. Due to RL on wouanagaine's side, this might take a while, though. Once it's released, you should be able to make your own CAMpatible lots, though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 08:59:12 AM
Yes, the "X Tool" is the only tool available (whenever it will be available) to make proper building exemplars (descriptor files) and CAMeLots. ;)

And yes, it can also be used to open existing buildings and recompute all properties according to CAM/"X Tool" standards. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 01, 2007, 09:24:10 AM
Excellent, as this means I don't have to remove a lot of files that I downloaded, I can just fix them.  Thank you guys.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 1ajs on August 01, 2007, 11:43:22 AM
hi took up the invitation last night to come over here and get the CAM anyhow i am a rarety in the simcity comunity since i run on linux...
run sc4 in cedega... anyhow the CAM runs under the cedega enviroment  :D  ;D   :thumbsup:

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 12:09:26 PM
Welcome aboard, 1ajs! :thumbsup:

Good to hear about Linux being CAMpatible (or was it the other way around). ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 01, 2007, 02:10:36 PM
its UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Started a new region and made my mouth dropped!! ;D ;D ;D ;D I've seen no traffic elsewhere, not even a single no job zot and abandon buildings anywhere!!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 1ajs on August 01, 2007, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 12:09:26 PM
Welcome aboard, 1ajs! :thumbsup:

Good to hear about Linux being CAMpatible (or was it the other way around). ::)

txs for the welcome.... to bad my crazy city tdk's plug ins folder won't work though....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on August 01, 2007, 03:21:56 PM
I have to say, CAM has seriously affected demand in my largest region (with a population of 2.5 million, which was developed before CAM was even hypothesized) leading to an odd anomaly where the demand bars for Residential and Commercial (except for CO$$$) have busted past 16000 and are literally off the charts, which led to a boom in my two commercial cities, leading to very dense areas in the cities involved, but oddly enough, no CAM Commercial buildings have actually grown yet. But on the upside, a few Stage 8 Residential CAM buildings have grown.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 03:36:29 PM
It will take a game month for the charts to settle for the new range (the upper range will change from 6,000 to 24,000).
After that you will still probably experience a bumpy ride, until the supply and demand comes into balance again.
You might even see the demand jump from positive to negative and v/v without any reason to it.

In your plugins you probably have quite a number of pre-CAM stage 8 buildings with too high capacities.
With the increased demand range, they will grow, but they will also block stage 9 and higher buildings, at least for a while.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Wyldone on August 01, 2007, 03:54:58 PM
I just wanna say that I have just taken the CAM for a spin, and by God....demand is INTENSE! Awesome work, here, 'n hope to see a WHOLE lot more in the future! But, unfortunately, the game is REALLY laggin all of a sudden. I have the Super Demand Ordinance from the STEX; a while now, it's been used, 'n I just wanna know if that affects this mod. I also just checked the manual 'yall have, and the Super Demand Ordinance is just not in it. So....tell me, is somethin' wrong, here? Am I missin' somethin'? Do I have somethin' extra?

Note that my Simcity 4 Rush Hour game is now runnin' even slower than usual, even since bein' loaded right after gettin' the CAM installed 'n all the dependencies. Well, all that's missin' is the Industrials, will add them later on. But, for the major point, I'm talkin' 'bout' those logos, by EA GAMES, and Maxis, plus the Rush Hour theme, yep...they ran a little slow 'n blocky for the first time. I don't get it. Help me?  ()what() :-[
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: Wyldone on August 01, 2007, 03:54:58 PM
I have the Super Demand Ordinance from the STEX; a while now, it's been used, 'n I just wanna know if that affects this mod. I also just checked the manual 'yall have, and the Super Demand Ordinance is just not in it. So....tell me, is somethin' wrong, here? Am I missin' somethin'? Do I have somethin' extra?

The Super Demand Ordinance, just like all Ordinances are fully CAMpatible (if you really want to increase the demand, that is). :thumbsup:


Quote from: Wyldone on August 01, 2007, 03:54:58 PM
Note that my Simcity 4 Rush Hour game is now runnin' even slower than usual, even since bein' loaded right after gettin' the CAM installed 'n all the dependencies. Well, all that's missin' is the Industrials, will add them later on. But, for the major point, I'm talkin' 'bout' those logos, by EA GAMES, and Maxis, plus the Rush Hour theme, yep...they ran a little slow 'n blocky for the first time. I don't get it. Help me?  ()what() :-[

The CAM itself shoudn't lag the game, and definitely not during start-up. $%Grinno$%
The size of your plugins folders and number of files in there is probably the biggest cause of the game slowing down...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on August 01, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
The 16000 was not a typo, I had downloaded a mod to increase the range of the demand screen from -6000 to 16000, but as it turns out, I took it for granted and that kept the screen from changing the limit from 16000 to the CAM limit of 24000. Also, the fact that no stage 9 and up Commercial CAM buildings grew was probably due to all of the building dependencies I downloaded for the CAM (So ironic!). Do I have to destroy the buildings and get rid of the SC4Model files or can I keep the buildings?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on August 01, 2007, 04:44:01 PM
Well...I played with CAM last night and I am impressed with how different the game play is. It will require old school SC4 players who can grow a city of 15,000 without thinking twice a whole new challenge.

Thank you, BSC, for breathing new life it the most deficient part of the game. Now I have to actually work to get those pretty, high stage BATs to grow.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: platyfish124 on August 01, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
The 16000 was not a typo, I had downloaded a mod to increase the range of the demand screen from -6000 to 16000, but as it turns out, I took it for granted and that kept the screen from changing the limit from 16000 to the CAM limit of 24000.

Which mod was it that extended the demand range to 16,000? Obviously a mod that needs to be added to the inCAMpatible list. ::)


Quote from: platyfish124 on August 01, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
Also, the fact that no stage 9 and up Commercial CAM buildings grew was probably due to all of the building dependencies I downloaded for the CAM (So ironic!). Do I have to destroy the buildings and get rid of the SC4Model files or can I keep the buildings?

Downloading the megapacks and having the same building model twice won't block any of them from growing, but the startup will take longer.

With each megapack you downloaded, you should have used Cleanitol with the enclosed txt-file to remove all old model duplicates.
If you haven't done so yet, I recommend doing it now ;)

If the demand settles at reasonable levels and won't be all negative, I don't see why you couldn't continue with your current setup.

The reason for stage 9 buildings being blocked, is that most old stage 8 buildings have occupancies that exceed the density limits originally thought of by Maxis.
Thus, since existing stage 8 buildings probably have a much denser population (people per tile) than the stage 9, 10 (and mabye 11) CAMeLots, the old stage 8 buildings will continue to grow if the demand for the population they contain still is there.
Those stage 8 lots won't be able to upgrade to stage 9 or 10, if the density already is larger than those stages.

In due time lots of stage 9 and above will grow, but you will most likely always have a surplus of stage 8 buildings.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on August 01, 2007, 06:14:26 PM
I did use the cleanitol files, but I was pretty much guessing as to how to use it, so I'm not sure. I am also honored to have found another incompatible mod, mostly because this is the first time this happened to me. Almost like using my game as a guinea pig. I found the graph mod. It is called Graph Maximum Mod by crazykid4simcity which is available on Simtropolis's STEX. The files are (there are multiple options) graph_1000.dat, graph_2000.dat, graph_4000.dat, graph_8000.dat, graph_10000.dat, graph_12000.dat, graph_14000.dat, and graph_16000.dat (the one I used). I demand (no pun intended) a mention on the readme too.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mcarch on August 01, 2007, 06:30:52 PM
I was wondering.... if there is a way to stop Maxis' landmarks from growing (the ones you included in the CAM)?  I mean, it should be an option if you want them to grow in your cities... as you (some of us) don't want the CN Tower or the Empire State Building to grow in every region (city) you create.  Just a thought.

Also... are the mods that you listed in the manual/read me the only ones that are not compatable with the CAM?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 01, 2007, 06:47:39 PM
if you dont want them to grow, dont install them
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Wyldone on August 01, 2007, 07:18:43 PM
Thanx for the quick reply Ripple, but the problem was my Virus scan software was on, and when I cancelled it, I made a LOT more progress. Anyway, just one more thing: I keep tryin' to download the CO$$$ CAM lots, but since I've dl'ed it 4 times already (had to 'cause when I tried openin' the zips inside, gave me an error), and I can't anymore 'cause of just that. I'm missin' the Golden Bank buildin', Stage 11. Please help me, and also, if there's anythin' else missin' that's worth notin'...let me know again? Thanx.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DuskTrooper on August 01, 2007, 07:38:28 PM
So, does anyone have any notable photos of CAM at work yet?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: beskhu3epnm on August 01, 2007, 07:42:45 PM
Would they be MORE notable because your buildings are splattered all over the place?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bendy on August 01, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Whoo! Congrats on finally releasing guys. Can't want to get a chance to try this all out. Unfortunately you had to release 2 days before I go to a conference for 10 days so I won't get much of a chance. Maybe for a few hours on the plane until my laptop batteries run out. A pity work won't shell out for business class......

Any idea how long it will be until the Camelot counter is released? My stats obsession will soon be demanding to know how many Camelots I have.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 11:52:49 PM
Good morning all!


Quote from: platyfish124 on August 01, 2007, 06:14:26 PM
It is called Graph Maximum Mod by crazykid4simcity which is available on Simtropolis's STEX.

I had a look at that "mod". It doesn't change the demand range at all, that is still ±6,000.
The only thing it does, is that it changes the numbers of the graph. The program still plots the graph as if the maximum value would be 6,000.


Quote from: mcarch on August 01, 2007, 06:30:52 PM
I was wondering.... if there is a way to stop Maxis' landmarks from growing (the ones you included in the CAM)?  I mean, it should be an option if you want them to grow in your cities... as you (some of us) don't want the CN Tower or the Empire State Building to grow in every region (city) you create.  Just a thought.

No, currently there is no way to remove them from the mod. They are like in-game growable buildings at the moment.
We might update the BSC No Maxis mod to include an option to stop them from growing as well though. ;)


Quote from: mcarch on August 01, 2007, 06:30:52 PM
Also... are the mods that you listed in the manual/read me the only ones that are not compatable with the CAM?

No, not at all. Most mods are CAMpatible. Those are the ones that have to be loaded after CAM if used.


Quote from: bendy on August 01, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Any idea how long it will be until the Camelot counter is released? My stats obsession will soon be demanding to know how many Camelots I have.

All in due time! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 01, 2007, 11:59:07 PM
Quote from: DuskTrooper on August 01, 2007, 07:38:28 PM
So, does anyone have any notable photos of CAM at work yet?

The picture below is from the beta testing, courtesy of MAS71.
He was running the same city without the CAM and with the CAM:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F9099%2Fcam850bo1.jpg&hash=e6e40126c7dd11e0a4778f9066b1d513bad0c230)

Note especially the difference between the population growth as shown in the graphs.
The Rush Hour city quickly grew to a R$$ population of 200,000 but then stopped.
The CAM city grew constantly to a R$$ population of 400,000 and never stopped.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: vester on August 02, 2007, 01:14:45 AM
It looks like a more naturally development with CAM, than without.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: zspace on August 02, 2007, 10:16:39 AM
I downloaded this two days ago and I have to say this great. i will never play sim city with out this mod again. With that said I would like to express some of the best and not so great things about this mod.

Resedental:
This makes a difference like I have never seen even with delapadation mods. I already have a city with 250k people and I have no delapadated build once so ever. I beleave this is because the mod will not allow a building to build in areas with low deserability, but also because it will not allow buildings to exceed the demand for at building type.
Also not only does the trasistion take place more gradulaty from low density to high density. This at the sam eime seems to correct the games tendancy to leave a build in a simi upgraded for (lvl 4 building with room to grow in a area capable of supporting lvl 6 buildings). The mod make all the building continue to devolpe untill there is no more room or the job demand falls to nothing.
As for the bad things it makes it very hard in the begining of a city that has been even slightly preplaned (such as avanunes insterad of roads in increaded population later) to balance a buget simply because stage 3 houses (quad housed I call them) will not grow untill 6-10 blocks (I was using a grided 6x6 block) have devloped into stage 1&2 buildings

Industry
Again a problem with stage one and 2 it almost forces you to zone freely (so you get nothnig buy one square industy lots) untill you have enough industry to begin devloping biger factories, at which point you have to rezone the area to perve single lot industry. this makes it increasingly diffacult to start cities out (I play in medium mode most of the time, and well you just dont have enough cash).
I have already began to see some the the higher stage factories and I must admitt I am very impressed. These factores shadow everything maxis devloped, in sheer size and jobs pervided

Trafic.
I have found that CAM allows you to force more people into a smaller area if you allow the game to run long enough (I ran up to year 135 on a small city) wich turns trafic into a living nightmare. I found that it can be solved easly by reinstallnig NAM with 10 speed 5x capisity mod, wich makes this less of a problem and more of a warning.

I know this does not help much but I will taking some photos tonight and posting them up here tommorrow.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 02, 2007, 10:51:35 AM
Thank you zspace for your report! :thumbsup:

You've pointed out a few of the basic things I had in mind when the CAM development started half a year ago.

1. The CAM should smooth out the development throughout all stages.
2. The CAM should still be a challenge, it wasn't created to be a cheat.
3. Industry should develop through stages, just like residentials and commercials.

Admittingly, there are rather few stage 1 industries in the basic CAM. More custom content CAMpatible stage 1 industries are needed. ;)

Traffic can be handled with NAM's 10×speed 5×capacity as well, if you do not want to use any of those that are developed for the CAM and are not quite as radical.
Otherwise, the idea is that you will have to plan your mass transit thoroughly if you're aiming for stage 15 buildings!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 02, 2007, 09:38:46 PM

You know Ripple Jet after much DL'ing and installing CAM yesterday and getting over my little phobia of CAM
I first installed all farming stuff for CAM and then played.... WOW needless to say i got some farms i have
never seen before but i knew i had....  &apls Then CAM indy again wow building i knew i had but never
seen grow at all and they grew  :o now or later i will finish installing rest of cam and i can gurantee i will
see the same results... Stuff i have but never seen.... THANK YOU to you and all the testers and BSC  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: le_harv on August 03, 2007, 04:56:50 AM
Hello CAM people,

I took a 'gap year' away from SC4 and amazed at the development that happened in this time. Just before I start playing again I just wanted to clear something in my own mind and I think (if correct) will help some of those who are a bit rusty understand how the future of simcity is going to be defined by this mod (no really it will completely change the way in which we play, it will become a necessity, that is plain to see from the ideas behind it).

1) So basically you spool up simcity with CAM installed and the recently released CAMeLot packs to get started.

2) Keep an eye on updates and new packs coming out from various sources.

3) Use the new X-Tool (when available) to update your own content to be CAMpatible? Effectively downloading a new growable lot from say the LEX or STEX, running it through the X-Tool and then just plugging it into your game? That sounds far too easy are you sure? lol :D (Is it a an automatic process?)

4) Repeat step 3 with each piece of new growable content you get.

5) Run Civic and Transport lots through X-Tool to make them CAMpatible too?

A little nudge to say, yep you are on the right track would be great, or a nudge to point out some other things I would need to do to get the full use out of implementing non-CAMpatible lots into a CAM orientated game.

Cheers, Le_Harv
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 03, 2007, 05:00:37 AM
i dont think campatability matters with transport buildings

though of course i may be wrong

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on August 03, 2007, 05:01:46 AM
Quite correct, or civic buildings either.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: le_harv on August 03, 2007, 05:04:54 AM
Quote from: star.torturer on August 03, 2007, 05:00:37 AM
i dont think campatability matters with transport buildings

though of course i may be wrong

Joe

I sort of threw that in at the last minute because it dawned on me that it changes the traffic and makes some buildings larger capacity (?) meaning things like train stations and hospitals would never be able to meet demand unless modified to fit the CAM structure?

Quote from: shoreman905 on August 03, 2007, 05:01:46 AM
Quite correct, or civic buildings either.

I was mid post, so there would be no need to alter capacities or anything like that? EDIT: Didn't realise you have used it extensively already! So hypothetically if I were to get a shiny new GLR station from the STEX or LEX I could just plop it in (the nicely organised of course) plug ins folder with no modification for a CAM game?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 03, 2007, 05:09:09 AM
no, well only to make them suit the larger cappacitys of standard buildings lol, but no
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 03, 2007, 08:02:00 AM
Quote from: le_harv on August 03, 2007, 04:56:50 AM
I took a 'gap year' away from SC4 and amazed at the development that happened in this time.

You came back just in time... hope you will enjoy the game at least as much as before! :thumbsup:


Quote from: le_harv on August 03, 2007, 05:04:54 AM
I sort of threw that in at the last minute because it dawned on me that it changes the traffic and makes some buildings larger capacity (?) meaning things like train stations and hospitals would never be able to meet demand unless modified to fit the CAM structure?

Yes, the capacity of (especially) in-game stations will probably prove to be too small if you aim at stage 15 buildings.
We have been pondering the question. Whether we will make a mod that increases the capacities of in-game stations, or release custom stations with higher capacities remains to be seen. In any case, there should be custom stations available already with higher capacities!


Quote from: le_harv on August 03, 2007, 05:04:54 AM
So hypothetically if I were to get a shiny new GLR station from the STEX or LEX I could just plop it in (the nicely organised of course) plug ins folder with no modification for a CAM game?

It will function, no question about it. Then, it is up to yourself if you want to mod it and increase its capacity. ::)


Quote from: le_harv on August 03, 2007, 04:56:50 AM
5) Run Civic and Transport lots through X-Tool to make them CAMpatible too?

Actually, the "X Tool" will give better capacities and other property values for stations and civic buildings as well (compared to Maxis PIM which assigns exactly the same values, regardless of the size of the station/building).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 03, 2007, 08:16:19 AM
well thats good, woohoo I love mr woutang and his "X" tool
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 03, 2007, 08:47:43 AM
Well it appears all is going well with the CAM.No rush but I'm just curious to what CAM Farms you have planned?.Thanx :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 04, 2007, 04:17:32 AM
im just wondering, does the cam NEED to be installed in plugins/a_cam, or can it just be kept in plugins/cam where the moddels go?

thanks

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: vester on August 04, 2007, 05:40:32 AM
It needs to be loaded as the first plug-in and that is what the a_ is for.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on August 04, 2007, 06:01:54 AM
Hello Start ...

Simcity loads its own program files first. Then it loads files from c:\programs\maxis\plugins. Then it loads files from your \My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins. And I think generally it loads the root plugin first then the folders a through z. But there were occasions during beta testing where we found that the CAM mod would sometimes load after a ZZZ folder. Which I think is why the default folder for the cam is A_CAM.

I personally installed the CAM in c:\programs\Maxis\plugins. Alongside Cycledogs terrain and trees which I also keep in that very specific folder. But that's just me.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 04, 2007, 06:27:34 AM
thought so, and Jmyers, i do understand and also my names star.torturer, not start lol but thanks. its a good thing to add to the manual/readme. as people may wonder why its adding it to more than one palce

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MayorKarl on August 04, 2007, 07:21:32 AM
Hi, not sure if this is the right place but seeing as it's CAM General Discussions I figured I might as well try here.

I've been using the Cleanitol file and Basically it's telling me I still have Jestarr's Hudson Glass and Superstar's Citibank Tower missing, yet I know I've installed the both of them (and jes's lot has even grown in one of my cities). Is there any way I can get it to actually pick the stuff up? :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DoNiEj on August 04, 2007, 03:10:43 PM
i installed it but nothing happend ands all trees have dissapeared
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 04, 2007, 03:41:50 PM
Right a few points:

1. I really love it, its great
2. though the name really doesn't make sense, unlike the NAM which is about networks, colossus makes thoughts about huge stuff like SC4.5 which it isn't really just buildings so why not Building Addon Mod or something.
3. I realise that you have split from Simtropolis and you insist that your not trying to promote yourselves over there by just posting the readme, and i also realise that you want to keep all discussions in one place, but really your not doing any favours by keeping something as big as this in a semi "private" forum.
4. and once again thanks for an awesome mod

Joe

PS: this is not flaming/spamming/insults/meant to be nasty in any way at all, its just my thoughts. sorry if it offends.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dedgren on August 04, 2007, 03:47:30 PM
QuoteI realise that you have split from Simtropolis and you insist that your not trying to promote yourselves over there by just posting the readme, and i also realise that you want to keep all discussions in one place, but really your not doing any favours by keeping something as big as this in a semi "private" forum.

My friend, where should we put it other than here, which is not "semi-private" at all.  If I had a semi-private room at a hospital analogous to your characterization of this thread, I'd sure be wondering who all those people were...


David
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on August 04, 2007, 03:51:42 PM
Quote from: DoNiEj on August 04, 2007, 03:10:43 PM
i installed it but nothing happend ands all trees have dissapeared

Can you be more specific than that, and please, post this matters at the support thread, this is the welcome and Manual thread. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on August 04, 2007, 03:53:59 PM
Just noted that this thread, as of this post, has been read 11,567 times. That's about as private as a bus station.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ssc4k on August 04, 2007, 04:58:06 PM
can someone tell me how having more growth stage levels helps me in any way?
why not jsut have it the old way?and why was it calle dcam instead of something like  "SLAM stage level addon mod"?

its not like its adding on a expansion pack, its not exactly colossal.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 04, 2007, 05:52:13 PM
SSC4K:
  Not colossal you say well I ain't seeing anyone else doing something this awesome.If you like the old way then good for you but some like me enjoy adding a twist to this game.
   This community has done more for this game then EA will ever dream of doing and I think we owe the folks of SC4D a big thanx. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on August 04, 2007, 05:54:06 PM
Quote from: ssc4k on August 04, 2007, 04:58:06 PM
can someone tell me how having more growth stage levels helps me in any way?
why not jsut have it the old way?and why was it calle dcam instead of something like  "SLAM stage level addon mod"?

its not like its adding on a expansion pack, its not exactly colossal.

Do you need help, sorry, we didn't know that. Unfortunately CAM was not made with that intention, so, you'd better seek help elsewhere, maybe back where you came from. :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: NYM1980 on August 04, 2007, 07:42:22 PM
Not sure if this is the right place to ask or not, or if it was even asked already. So I apologize in advance.  But will this work with all the buildings downloaded, or do I need to delete my Plugins Folder?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 04, 2007, 09:20:11 PM

NYM1980 no you dont need to delete your plugins folder just make a back up of it before installing the cam... Just so you know there is alot to download but once you have it is well worth it......\

Rayden dont ya's think you was a little harsh on ssc4k.... ssc4k CAM can be explained like this....
CAM improves what EA made. CAM makes it easier to grow all stages and allows for continuning growth
of all stages and adds new stages for the event as it was felt that the current stages wasnt enough...
But i do agree ssc4k you also was a little harsh with how you asked your question it was more or like you
was putting down the CAM instead of asking what it reallly does.... Now im certian if you asked what CAM
does and left it at that would have been a better way of putting it....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on August 04, 2007, 10:50:38 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 03, 2007, 08:02:00 AM

It will function, no question about it. Then, it is up to yourself if you want to mod it and increase its capacity. ::)

ssc4k: I'll tell you what's colossal about this thing: you try tweaking nearly ALL of the game's lots, plus make new ones. It's a doozy. Then you consider testing, re-tweaking, etc. It's quite a bit of work. To be fair, they didn't modify the game lots visually, but even if you're just modding them... There's thousands of lots to modify.

Also want to relay from a point of view of someone who's currently using the CAM that stations do indeed work properly. Of course, my stations are *highly* tweaked (Helsinki Central Station @ 350,000  ;D).

Also, I've done this already, but a big THANKYOU to everyone who has contributed to this great addition to the game. I'm a very happy camper.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mistershnerples on August 05, 2007, 12:59:28 AM
I bet this question's been answered, but I'm new to what this CAM thing is all about. But I had one specific question. I've recently been downloading modds and such and I have a region that I've been playing off and on for about 2 years. The region is about to hit its 6 million people mark. Is CAM worth  downloading for old regions such as mine? Thanks!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on August 05, 2007, 03:37:02 AM
Quote from: patfirefghtr on August 04, 2007, 09:20:11 PM
NYM1980 no you dont need to delete your plugins folder just make a back up of it before installing the cam... Just so you know there is alot to download but once you have it is well worth it......\

Rayden dont ya's think you was a little harsh on ssc4k.... ssc4k CAM can be explained like this....
CAM improves what EA made. CAM makes it easier to grow all stages and allows for continuning growth
of all stages and adds new stages for the event as it was felt that the current stages wasnt enough...
But i do agree ssc4k you also was a little harsh with how you asked your question it was more or like you
was putting down the CAM instead of asking what it reallly does.... Now im certian if you asked what CAM
does and left it at that would have been a better way of putting it....

Is it me being Portuguese and English my second language, that I completely misunderstood that guy's post? Nah, I thing you're being too kind and naive and don't want to see the real implication of his words. But I accept that, what I don't agree it's my post post being harsh, harsh was the second part of my post, that I deleted before I hit the post button ;D

C'mon Pat, even some of our members that have troubles with the english language can ask help to their problems with manners. &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on August 05, 2007, 04:48:55 AM
I had commitments yesterday and was not on line so please forgive me if I am answering an already answered question. Here it is ... behind the scenes of the BSC. 

How did CAM come to be named? Well – the original name was Titan Stage Mod. But those working on the alpha version were not totally happy with the name and asked what us other people thought. A couple of suggestions were made. I decided to go to a thesaurus to look up the word Titan and contributed ten synonyms to the thread. Fairly soon thereafter, everyone was referring to it as Colossus ... and so it stuck. Regarding the A and the M. There were several ideas ... the one that comes back to my mind is "Colossus Stage Mod – or CSM" along with others. CSM really didn't 'roll of the tongue' hence, CAM was the acronym that stuck. 

But that's just the name. The mod itself? Well, it's pretty big if not colossal.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Indisguise on August 05, 2007, 09:09:21 AM
what he said,...;)

the CAM doesn't change the pathfinding, or any of the transit, they still function the same, older buildings that you downloaded still work with the CAM

what the CAM does is expand the stages the buildings grown on and with Woug's X-tool reasigns the stats for the buildings to be more in-line with proper growth for a simulation (water consumption, electical consumption, pollution values, and occupactional values.

the old way (just 3 or 8 stages depending on the zoning type) there were many buildings with very odd stats, that were outside the game original stats (garbage produced being one major problems, groups releasing buildings with stage 8 stats and editing them to stage 1 or 2 etc etc). these buildings would upset the simulator and cause all sorts of problems for ppl who are running the game in a simulation mode.
A lot of building that were all stuck at stage 3 or 8 even though the size of the building and it's stats should be higher. This created a log jam of buildings at these stages, and once a top stage building grew, it would never re-grow into a higher capasity building, even if you had higher stats building in your plugins folder. cause as the game grows only a higher wealth and/or higher stage building
so once these building grew they stay. And in most cases the smaller stat buildings would grow first, and sort of blocked the ability of larger buildings from growing.

CAM expands the stages , so some of the larger buildings that should have higher stats and stage level, making them able to grow and over take buildings with lower stats. This makes the buildings appear when they should and spreads them out so when your playing you get  a lot more variaty in buildings (depending on your plugins folder size and buildings you choose to play with.)

Now any former building that is set below stage 3 or 8 (depending on the zoning type), the CAM is not needed for it to grow, even if the buildings stats have be re-done with the X-Tool. As the original simulator will reconize this building. Only buildings with stages set higher than 3 or 8 ( depending on the type) will the Cam be needed. If you have higher stage buildings in your plugins folder without the CAM, the game will never select the buildng to grow because it won't reconize the stage level and will skip the building. The CAM tells the game that there is higher stages.

Now the mod does re-asign some of the values of the original building so even with just the CAM mod , you will have some higher stage buildings right from the start. without the need to download anything.

CAM also gives the player the ability to customize and choose what buildings they want and what stages they feel comfortable to play with. (eg you want to have a rural comunity and  don't want stage 9-15  CO buildings in your region, don't put any high stage buildings in your plugins, just put in the farming buildings in your plugins folder while playing that region). As except for a few re-assigned Maxis buildings, the buildings themselves are downloaded and installed independantly.

the Stats that are now fixed by the X-Tool with help the simulator run better and will inable the ganme to run more smoothly in a progression type manner (sorry farmers the mod doesn't change the fact that farms are still at the lower end, even though in real life this isn't true, it's just the way Maxis set the game up)

also CAM is an optional mod to be used for players that want to expand their game to higher levels. don't like it, don't use it.



ps...you can change the stats of growable buildings, so the next time you open an older city, the game will assign the new stats to the buildings. this may cause a few problems to the simulator as the game ajusts to the new stats, but after 5- 10 yr of playing ( sometime less in smaller cites or cities where the stats change is not dramatic) the simulator settles down to the new stats. "$Deal"$




Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 10:17:39 AM
Hello all!

Just returned from being away since saturday morning. I'll read through the thread and post replies to questions that haven't been answered yet. Starting with:

Quote from: star.torturer on August 04, 2007, 06:27:34 AM
its a good thing to add to the manual/readme. as people may wonder why its adding it to more than one palce


The placement of the files into a_CAM and z_CAM is mentioned in the Installation Readme, as well as the reasons for this:

Quote from: CAM 1.0 Readme
The CAM will by default be installed in the folder "a_CAM" under "My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins".

CAM should be the first mod to load when starting SimCity 4.

Any mods changing any of the developer exemplars within CAM need to be loaded after the CAM.

Quote from: CAM 1.0 Readme
The Pathfinding will by default be loaded in the folder "z_CAM" under "My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins".

Note that the Pathfinding needs to be loaded after NAM, if you have the Network Addon Mod installed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 10:29:26 AM
Quote from: ssc4k on August 04, 2007, 04:58:06 PM
can someone tell me how having more growth stage levels helps me in any way?

The best way to answer that question is to test the CAM yourself. :thumbsup:
It's not so easy to explain the experience felt when playing with the CAM in words.

Lots of replies to that question have already been given by several people in this thread.
The best visual proof of a better simulation I can think of is the first picture in the Show us your CAM Cities (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1915.msg56219#msg56219) thread.
If you understand the graphs going with those pictures, you should be able to see the advantage of the CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 10:34:45 AM
Quote from: Rayden on August 05, 2007, 03:37:02 AM
Is it me being Portuguese and English my second language, that I completely misunderstood that guy's post? Nah, I thing you're being too kind and naive and don't want to see the real implication of his words. But I accept that, what I don't agree it's my post post being harsh, harsh was the second part of my post, that I deleted before I hit the post button ;D

C'mon Pat, even some of our members that have troubles with the english language can ask help to their problems with manners. &mmm

thank you rayden for explaining i didn't know that english was your second language and I'm reallly glad you let the real harshness out lol... Too me it sounded kinda harsh and for that i apologize for misunderstanding what you said - pat the nice guy
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
Quote from: mistershnerples on August 05, 2007, 12:59:28 AM
I bet this question's been answered, but I'm new to what this CAM thing is all about. But I had one specific question. I've recently been downloading modds and such and I have a region that I've been playing off and on for about 2 years. The region is about to hit its 6 million people mark. Is CAM worth  downloading for old regions such as mine? Thanks!

I recommend reading the manual carefully first, and especially check for possible eternal commuters. If you have lots of them, it might be difficult to get such a large region to bahave properly again. At least Indisguise had problems with her region, which was even larger than yours.

If you decide to give it a try, please backup you entire region and your plugins folders first. :thumbsup:
And please report whatever problems you might encounter. That could be valuabe for others considering to install the CAM with an existing, large region.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 11:09:43 AM
I'm having.. sort of trouble. After deleting all plugins due to the game crash (I have them packed so I don't know what caused it) and re downloading and install the cam lots and the cam itself.... didn't download the custom made lots yet. I had maybe 12,000 sims. Weird is the year is 20, all the lots still in low wealth first stage. Didn't add any farms or nothing like that..

what's going on?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 11:42:25 AM
When starting on a fresh region, it will take a little longer for stage 2 to start appearing, compared to Vanilla and Rush Hour.
However, it won't take till 12,000 inhabitants for stage 2 to appear...
With a regional residential population of that size, you should already get quite a few stage 5 residential houses.

Linda, did you start on a completely new region? Or are you playing in a region that you have been playing in before?

R§§ won't start to appear until your education has come up a bit.
Unless you use one of the optional plugins that cause CS§, ID and IR to employ 5% R§§.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 12:14:52 PM
starting on the fresh new one.. Yes I used the 5% thingy..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 12:21:22 PM
Did you zone low, medium or high density (just have to ask, in order to rule out all possibilities)?

What are the demand bars showing for your city?
Establishing neighbouring cities increases demand as well...

A picture of your city might help...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 12:23:59 PM
I zone only high so far... Let me take of the 5% and I'll see what happen. I'm still going to take a picture of it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ssc4k on August 05, 2007, 04:34:35 PM
Quote from: Bluebeard on August 04, 2007, 05:52:13 PM
SSC4K:
  Not colossal you say well I ain't seeing anyone else doing something this awesome.If you like the old way then good for you but some like me enjoy adding a twist to this game.
   This community has done more for this game then EA will ever dream of doing and I think we owe the folks of SC4D a big thanx. :thumbsup:

i never said i didnt think the community wasnt doing things for the game i just said i dont get this projects point
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: NYM1980 on August 05, 2007, 04:41:54 PM
Quote from: cammo2003 on August 04, 2007, 10:50:38 PM
ssc4k: I'll tell you what's colossal about this thing: you try tweaking nearly ALL of the game's lots, plus make new ones. It's a doozy. Then you consider testing, re-tweaking, etc. It's quite a bit of work. To be fair, they didn't modify the game lots visually, but even if you're just modding them... There's thousands of lots to modify.

Also want to relay from a point of view of someone who's currently using the CAM that stations do indeed work properly. Of course, my stations are *highly* tweaked (Helsinki Central Station @ 350,000  ;D).

Also, I've done this already, but a big THANKYOU to everyone who has contributed to this great addition to the game. I'm a very happy camper.

Thanks for the help!  So, if I read this correctly, all or most of the BAT content has already been modified to work with this?  Do they need to be redownloaded, or does the CAM's download do it automatically?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 04:48:51 PM

ssc4k: Well see that would have been a better way of asking your question instead of this

Quote from: ssc4k on August 04, 2007, 04:58:06 PM
can someone tell me how having more growth stage levels helps me in any way?
why not jsut have it the old way?and why was it calle dcam instead of something like  "SLAM stage level addon mod"?

its not like its adding on a expansion pack, its not exactly colossal.

Cause this statement did sound very rude...  So in starting fresh, to answer the points of the CAM are these
in what Indisguise said today 8/5... i suggest reading that post as it is very informative of what CAM is. - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 04:59:22 PM
well said pat!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: NYM1980 on August 05, 2007, 04:41:54 PM
So, if I read this correctly, all or most of the BAT content has already been modified to work with this?  Do they need to be redownloaded, or does the CAM's download do it automatically?

They have been and are being uploaded to the LEX and you will have to download the new lots.
Shoreman905 is working on a list which will show all available CAMeLots and I hope he will be able to post it soon. ::)

For the time being, do a power search on the LEX for the LEX Categories starting with CAM...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 10:23:00 PM

OK im having a weird problem with CAM i cant get my game to load now that im almost done installing all the stages i only have 15 left to finish unpacking and i know i dont have anything else installed that would conflict
CAM... The game loads upto the EA then crashes i have the exemption report if that helps or any other info - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 10:40:15 PM
that's pretty simular to what I have in the beginning as soon I got the Cam!  ??? ??? Before I deleted the plugins the game crashes as soon the population (my city) 30,000 sims!  %confuso
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 10:45:18 PM
But what im running into now Linda is that i hardley played a city only with the farms installed and a few commericals it was running smoothly soo over the last 2 days ive been unpacking all the files and getting
all the required items needed for them, now that i was almost done unzipping everything for CAM i cant even
load the game.... I even compressed some files namely all the cam that i got so far as of today installed... I even went in and compressed some other folders thinking that might help and also removed all recent non CAM... so i am at a loss here???????????????
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 10:48:59 PM
I have no idea what's going on pat... Did you still have the unpacked files (un compressed)? If yes try using cleanitol my friend. I don't know if it will work..  %confuso
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 10:49:49 PM
LoL yuppers thats the first thing i did before even playing tonight i ran all the list...
Yes i still have the uncompressed files as well..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 10:52:10 PM
whew! Oh good..  :thumbsup: Let's see what happens after the cleanitol.  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 10:54:36 PM

LoL  $%Grinno$%  :D i had allready did cleanitol before i even tried to play and thats when it started to crash on me...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 05, 2007, 10:56:29 PM
 ??? ??? ??? What??  ??? ??? ???

After the cleanitol??.... Ok something is not right here. Where's RippleJet when we need him.  &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 11:02:17 PM
I'm here :D

So far we've never had SC4 crashing with the CAM while testing...
Sorry Pat, if you're to be the guinea pig for the first one.

I doubt the exemption report would help us much, but probably easier to tell after you've given it... ::)

What would be needed is to pinpoint which plugin caused the crash.
First of all, remove the DatPacker-packed files and put back your unpacked subfolders.

Then you would have to remove the plugin subfolders one by one and restart the game after each removal.

As soon as the game would start again you know in which subfolder the culprit is.
Then continue by putting back the things within that subfolder one by one till you get the crash again...


Quote from: patfirefghtr on August 05, 2007, 10:23:00 PM
all the stages i only have 15 left

Was the pun intended? :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 11:05:38 PM

hehehe you know what RT totaly ummm accidental PUN lol... i only truely have 15 installers left to open up i should say lol...  Uggh go fig me being the special one... should i PM the report to ya's or just post here?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 11:08:28 PM
Just post it here ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 11:17:05 PM
All right this is the most recent attempt at loading just now lol and with uncompressed folder...
I also put in the one with compressed that happend at after midnight my time and of course the one
just happend now with uncompressed reports - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 05, 2007, 11:51:53 PM
The only thing I could notice in the exemption report is that you are running a bit low on the memory...

I've got another report of a CTD over at Simtropolis this morning as well, after restarting a saved CAM city.
I hope you will get it running by removing your plugins and be able to pinpoint where the conflict is...

I'm off to work now, but I'll take a look at this thread over lunch and see how you're doing (or sleeping?). ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 05, 2007, 11:53:44 PM
 :D LoL Rj i thank you for taking your time and i will try one or 2 more things before calling it a night i will edit this post with more info if i find anything at all... thats if no one else says anything then i will post again lol - pat




EDIT:  RJ, Goood news i figured out the problem...  I rebooted the computer and then what i did was put everything CAM and downloads releated into one folder... I called it zzz_CAM lots test and i placed it at the very bottom of list of my plugins folder and the game booted just fine from there  :thumbsup:  I also figured out what was chewing up mem it was something sneeky and i deleted it lol and plus shut off alot stuff running in the background...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 06, 2007, 04:09:33 AM
I have had no CTD at all and I have been testing this from the start. I also have used regions from before CAM and new regions with the latter also being reused over and over when I have been testing CAM and also to test out lots etc that I have been working on. I have also dat packed my plugins, re packed them and gone into regions with a combination of packed and none packed stuff and never had a CTD yet.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 06, 2007, 04:33:12 AM
Pat, sounds like you have a conflict.  If i were you I'd do the divide and conqure on your plugins untill you find the offending file.  Not only will it save you headaches down the line, but may save others from the same fate.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 06, 2007, 09:34:40 AM
I'm glad to got it fixed up pat!  ;D I was going to say something about the plugins  ()stsfd()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MayorKarl on August 06, 2007, 12:45:03 PM
Just one other thing I wanted to ask. Will all the MEGA lots that were released prior to the CAM, as well as all the BTE stuff, work properly with the CAM, or will I need to wait for "CAMpatible" versions to be released? I'm wondering whether or not to  reinstall all of that stuff as well as I've recently reinstalled the game after reading about this :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 06, 2007, 01:00:23 PM
Anything below stage 8 will work although the stats may well change once the X_Tool is available. There is no need to worry about anything elow stage 8 for now though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 06, 2007, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on August 06, 2007, 04:09:33 AM
I have had no CTD at all and I have been testing this from the start. I also have used regions from before CAM and new regions with the latter also being reused over and over when I have been testing CAM and also to test out lots etc that I have been working on. I have also dat packed my plugins, re packed them and gone into regions with a combination of packed and none packed stuff and never had a CTD yet.

Hey Barby that is what i find weird so far im the second one to expriance a CTD with starting CAM RJ said someone over at ST had that happen...  As i did say prior what i figured out was to drop my cam folder all the way down to the end of my plugins list like so... I also renamed the folder to just to zzz_cam lots and its still working so far without any more CTD's

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg171.imageshack.us%2Fimg171%2F8471%2Fpluginsfolderei0.jpg&hash=c4bd609a8195420a0a93f4524ffdff951a1ab034)

The compressed folder is for play only of course lol

Quote from: Diggis on August 06, 2007, 04:33:12 AM
Pat, sounds like you have a conflict.  If i were you I'd do the divide and conqure on your plugins untill you find the offending file.  Not only will it save you headaches down the line, but may save others from the same fate.

Diggis the only file i think i had a conflict with was some stuff i DL'ed extra off of STEX and it was the Curling lot, and anther train station off of seiko's site... i think thats the name of the site that also has a few cam buildings on... well with out any more CTD's and renaming the folder to load last i think i might be safe to try again with the new items but not certain though...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 07, 2007, 01:00:48 PM
got it well organized pat...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Dary_14 on August 08, 2007, 04:46:04 AM
Um, where do i can dowload this CAM?
Thanks! ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 08, 2007, 05:46:09 AM
The CAM is available at the BSC LEX (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/).
You need to register separately there before you can download the CAM.

Search the LEX for RippleJet as creator or check the links in the CAM - Welcome and Manual (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0) thread for the downloads.

Good luck with the CAM, Dary_14!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gmavignier on August 08, 2007, 09:11:50 AM
I installed CAM in a already populated region and I am having demand problems. I posted a reply to the BSC CAM team at Simtropolis that explains a little better my problem and attached a census report (linkie (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=23&threadid=91844&startpage=1)). I think I might be having the eternal loop thing problem where workers flee to near by cities in an endless loop.

The reason I say I think I have this problem is because my region is being developed horizontally. I have something like 6 medium cities in a straight line so one only connects to 2 others besides it. What I am going to try is isolate these already built cities and start fresh for the next line. Could this help me? I am assuming the game would restart the RCI demand for a city that is not connected to anything. Kind of like a region within a region sort of speak.

If not how could I fix this problem without having to restart my region?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jip2 on August 08, 2007, 09:30:47 AM
I have a question about CAMs dependencies. I read the list and downloaded all packages. On all info files there notes that I should use Cleanitol to remove some files. When do I delete the files? Before installation, after installing one package, after installing all the packages or do I even need to do it?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 08, 2007, 11:10:46 AM

Jip2 your question is easy for me to answer and dont worry gmavignier someone with
more knowladge then me can and will be by to help you out soon....  But anyways Jip2
you should use the Cleanitol before installing the new files as it finds all of the old files
and then removes any or alll the files it is directed to... I hope that helps - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 08, 2007, 11:13:30 AM
Use the Cleanitol file to check first if you have the models. If you use Cleanitol and find you are missing any models you can get them via the links. Do not use the CAM Cleanitol list to remove dependencies as it is more of a check list than a remove list. The only time you need to use Cleanitol to remove files is if you are installing a pack of models like the BSC MEGA Pack CARCH Vol0x then you use it before installing the pack.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 08, 2007, 02:56:17 PM
Quote from: gmavignier on August 08, 2007, 09:11:50 AM
I installed CAM in a already populated region and I am having demand problems. I posted a reply to the BSC CAM team at Simtropolis that explains a little better my problem and attached a census report (linkie (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=23&threadid=91844&startpage=1)). I think I might be having the eternal loop thing problem where workers flee to near by cities in an endless loop.

The reason I say I think I have this problem is because my region is being developed horizontally. I have something like 6 medium cities in a straight line so one only connects to 2 others besides it. What I am going to try is isolate these already built cities and start fresh for the next line. Could this help me? I am assuming the game would restart the RCI demand for a city that is not connected to anything. Kind of like a region within a region sort of speak.

If not how could I fix this problem without having to restart my region?

This particular city is not suffering from eternal commuters, but your region might be.
There are no commuters reported entering this city from the neighbouring cities.

However, your regional residential capacity is very close to the projected demand.
Whether 96,910 is your true regional residential capacity I don't know, but if you have eternal commuters they would be included in that figure.

The most alarming thing with your region is that the projected R$$$ demand is -7,475. :o
That figure means that as long as the regional R$$$ population is greater than -7,475, your R$$$ demand will be negative...
I've acually never encountered a negative projected demand ever before... that is definitely the reason for the R$$$ demand to be -6,000.

With those demand figures I would defnitely not recommend continuing playing in this region with the CAM.
The eternal commuters (if included in the residential capacity) will never disappear, and because of this the projected demand will never be corrected.

Even if you restarted some of those cities, you would never get rid of the commuters or the built in projected demand.
Note that even if you would reimport empty cities in every tile of that region, those demand figures would still be left in the saved game file.

Try starting with a fresh, empty region that you've never played on before! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on August 08, 2007, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 08, 2007, 02:56:17 PM
Even if you restarted some of those cities, you would never get rid of the commuters or the built in projected demand.
Note that even if you would reimport empty cities in every tile of that region, those demand figures would still be left in the saved game file.

That's interesting... I didn't know that. Even if you blow up cities and start from scratch or import entirely new ones, your region is still "imprinted" with what was going on before?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 09, 2007, 06:57:03 AM
Interestingly enough, that does seem to be the case. I think complete deletion of the offending city tiles is the only way to resolve that issue.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gmavignier on August 09, 2007, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 08, 2007, 02:56:17 PM
This particular city is not suffering from eternal commuters, but your region might be.
There are no commuters reported entering this city from the neighbouring cities.

However, your regional residential capacity is very close to the projected demand.
Whether 96,910 is your true regional residential capacity I don't know, but if you have eternal commuters they would be included in that figure.

The most alarming thing with your region is that the projected R$$$ demand is -7,475. :o
That figure means that as long as the regional R$$$ population is greater than -7,475, your R$$$ demand will be negative...
I've acually never encountered a negative projected demand ever before... that is definitely the reason for the R$$$ demand to be -6,000.

With those demand figures I would defnitely not recommend continuing playing in this region with the CAM.
The eternal commuters (if included in the residential capacity) will never disappear, and because of this the projected demand will never be corrected.

Even if you restarted some of those cities, you would never get rid of the commuters or the built in projected demand.
Note that even if you would reimport empty cities in every tile of that region, those demand figures would still be left in the saved game file.

Try starting with a fresh, empty region that you've never played on before! :thumbsup:
Too bad. I really thought I would finish a region this time. I guess I am just going for a smaller region this time so I can test things out before going full scale.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: toxicpiano on August 09, 2007, 11:44:28 AM
I downloaded the BSC maxis buildings blocker, and noticed that it dosen't block by stages. Basically I wanted to block the R$$$ mansions (They don't look particularly nice imo). I had another blocker that blocked the stages in 3s (R$ Stages 1-3, R$$ Stages 3-6 etc). Any chance of one like that? Thanks. Also, how much of simgoober's work is Stage 8?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 09, 2007, 03:11:55 PM
Quote from: toxicpiano on August 09, 2007, 11:44:28 AM
I downloaded the BSC maxis buildings blocker, and noticed that it dosen't block by stages. Basically I wanted to block the R$$$ mansions (They don't look particularly nice imo). I had another blocker that blocked the stages in 3s (R$ Stages 1-3, R$$ Stages 3-6 etc). Any chance of one like that?

Maybe, but that is not the first priority at the moment ;)


Quote from: toxicpiano on August 09, 2007, 11:44:28 AM
Also, how much of simgoober's work is Stage 8?

Very few. Currently there's a larger need to remod all SimGoober's industrials into stages 1-10.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: toxicpiano on August 09, 2007, 03:27:41 PM
Thanks for the reply! The one person I can think of that is missing from this whole thing is Ill Tonkso  ;D Which is a shame, but you can only do things with his stuff with his permission I suppose  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 09, 2007, 03:40:08 PM
There are several mega packs with ILL Tonkso's skyscrapers available at the LEX.
In due time CAMeLots will be uploaded for them as well. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 09, 2007, 03:41:56 PM
Ill_Tonkso gave permission to make his work into model packs and these are on the LEX. Eventually lots will be made with these buildings but most of them do not make higher than stage 8 lots.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on August 09, 2007, 04:52:56 PM
i cant seem to find the model files for the following...

ACME oil additive
Replogle globe factory
Yuengling brewery...

could anyone point me in the right direction
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 09, 2007, 05:18:23 PM

MG here is what you seek:

Yuengling Brewery (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=results)

Replogle globe factory (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=927)

I cant find Acme Oil Additive... I swear its here on the lex but no prevail and i know its not on SteX - sorry cant help all that much pat



Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: toxicpiano on August 09, 2007, 11:45:17 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 09, 2007, 03:40:08 PM
There are several mega packs with ILL Tonkso's skyscrapers available at the LEX.
In due time CAMeLots will be uploaded for them as well. ;)
Ok, I missed those (Goes and searches), Oh and does all current industry work correctly (Or not??)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jip2 on August 10, 2007, 12:33:54 AM
I found CAM models cleanitol list from LEX. I ran cleanitol and noticed that I don't have any of the files installed. Before I start installing I have a question. For example I have NDEX Cardinal Airlines Tower. Do I need to install alll of the files or do I need to install just the model file?

Beside that I'm still not 100% positive which dependency packs I need.

Sorry about the stupid questions but I'm kinda new to this.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 10, 2007, 01:10:58 AM
You only need to keep the model files as the lot files are not CAMpatible. If you are intending to collect and install all the CAM sets then you need everything on the Cleanitol list. There may be other models needed too but they will be linked in any files you download.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 10, 2007, 04:10:57 AM
Quote from: toxicpiano on August 09, 2007, 11:45:17 PM
Oh and does all current industry work correctly (Or not??)

Since the industrial stages have more or less been reinvented (Maxis implemented industrial growth stages only for I-D), most industrials should be updated for the CAM.

However, since the occupancies of existing industrial bats in general are rather low, they might actually work pretty well as they are, set into growth stages 1-3.
Eventually you will probably want to replace the old industrial lots with CAMeLots so that the upper stages get more variation. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 10, 2007, 12:43:43 PM
wow.. thought were not the only ones having problems with the cam!  ??? ???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on August 10, 2007, 05:51:41 PM
A question about page 4 of the manual. It says, for optimum development it is recommended not to leave old stag 8 buildings in your plugins folder. How do I recognize these for removal?  &mmm I know your answer to my question is going to be simple and obvious but thats what I am best at missing. At this time I have not started up my new Cam region because of RL commitments but I have all my ducks in a row and am ready to go. I have been looking at the new Cam CJ's and am getting some good ideas of how I want to play the new game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 11, 2007, 02:43:50 AM
You should use the BSC Cleanitol CAM Remove Lots (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=963).
That will remove all existing lots that originally were available as CAMeLots.

Other uploaded CAMeLot sets, eg. Cobb's Updated Residentials (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1018) include a Cleanitol file for removing all existing lots by Cobb.

If you want to remove those skyscrapers that are not available as CAMeLots yet, you will have to remove them manually yourself.
Or use the Startup Manager (http://kurier.simcityplaza.de/details.php?file=311) to exclude those subfolders you know contain stage 8 skyscrapers.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 03:23:23 AM
Thank you for your reply but your answer still left me with the same question.  How do I recognize those buildings in my files? For instance how did you recognize the ones in your plugin folder? How are othere people finding and recognizing there old stag 8's? Thank you
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 11, 2007, 03:30:43 AM
Technically all growables SHOULD begin with the type, wealth level and stage - for example R$$6 for a level 6 medium wealth residential. Unfortunately not all developers have done that so often is is a case of trial and error to find the buildings. When the CAMeLots were made I just kept the models for those I had made but you would need to check the information provided by the uploader of the original - if any - or the lots in SC4Tool or the Reader. Both of those programs will show the growth stage.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 03:38:24 AM
Thank you BarbyW I can work with this bit of information and get the job done (slowly) at least now I have a game plan.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 11, 2007, 03:41:43 AM
Basically the lots you need to look for are the skyscrapers as they are very out of line with growth stages. Anything smaller SHOULD be ok - no guarantees though $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 04:02:59 AM
I have looked at my list of skyscrapers and its :) not going to be too difficult to get the job done. Now what I really want to learn is how to use the new startup manager. This tool I can see is essential for having fun with lots of special  regions and cities. I am trying to figure it out but not getting very far. Is there any special tuturials for this program?  Maybe I should get my son to help me with it. I really want to use that program! Any help from the community on stratup manager would be appreciated. Thank you :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 11, 2007, 04:31:13 AM
I can only suggest that you have a look here: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=121&threadid=70989&enterthread=y&STARTPAGE=5

I am still using v2 of this as I find it suits my purpose so can't help with v3.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 04:52:26 AM
Thank you BarbyW, I have been following that particulare thread I think my best bet is to get my son involved. I put him on the computer at age 2 and he knows all at age 17. Where did the years go? I noticed the "Lot plop" list does a good job of listing all buildings by there stag size; that was pretty easy. For instance the Cobb 5thAvenue stag 8 pop. is 1064 and the Cobb5th Avenue Camelot stag 9 is 2918. So I guess this stag 8 is ok to keep in the CAM Region? &mmm
I listed the wrong stag # its 10 and not 9
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 11, 2007, 05:00:47 AM
Quote from: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 04:52:26 AM
Thank you BarbyW, I have been following that particulare thread I think my best bet is to get my son involved. I put him on the computer at age 2 and he knows all at age 17.

:D

Quote from: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 04:52:26 AMFor instance the Cobb 5thAvenue stag 8 pop. is 1064 and the Cobb5th Avenue Camelot stag 9 is 2918. So I guess this stag 8 is ok to keep in the CAM Region? &mmm

As you can see the exsting stage 8 lots has been upgraded, and several properties have been corrected.
The occupancy is only one of them, garbage pollution and water consumption are two other ones that have been corrected.

In every case where there is a newer CAMeLot available, I would recommend deleting the old lot.

And especially (in the case of Cobb), where the new CAMeLots replace the existing lots without assigning new TGI addresses.
If you keep both of them, there would be a conflict and only the one loaded later would be used.

If the old version has already grown in the region, you can still safely replace the lot with the CAMeLot one.
The lot in the game will be replaced by the new one. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 11, 2007, 05:02:26 AM
This applies to the cerulean lots too. ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 05:19:57 AM
Thank you both BarbyW & RippleJet. This little session tonight or is it now morning (Its 5:16 here at Lake Tahoe) has helped clear up some important things for me. Your help is appreciated. &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on August 11, 2007, 09:39:32 AM
I have been experimenting with the CAM over the last few days and often the game stalled for want of a better word. Not even ctrl+alt+del worked. A complete reset was required. I figured out what was causing it though.

It only happened in a region  that is being tracked by the BSC regional counter. It didn't matter even if was the very last file to load in its own "zzzzzzz folder" yes that many z's to make sure ;) Once the population reached above 30,000+ it was more likely to happen. If you tracked one city and none else it was a guarantee to happen.

this I did on over 20 attempts with the mod included and 20 without. Each time building the city from scratch
Without the tracker installed in the plugins folder (and its location in the plugins folder didn't matter even if loaded before the cam or not ( this too tested to death ::) ) ) the game runs fine if you are using the cam.

But once you start playing with it and you do use CAM the game would freeze. Has any one else encountered this?



Another thing i noticed was regarding the organisation of your plug ins folder.

Ok i suppose I'm like most of you and rearrange my plugins to suit myself - here's something to note.

I rebuilt my plugins folder over the last couple days and have kept the folder set up the way everything is installed. No moving of anything to a different folder. exactly as the installer do it. verything that came without an installer got its own folder and then placed in a folder marked AAAAA TTC.

I ran the cleanitols as they appeared. and played the game. with cam installed and the
plugins ( 2.6gig with 5092 files in 901 folders)  installed as above the game loaded and played quicker than ever before. 1.5mins to load.  1-1.5 mis city to load. 5 secs for park menu to open.

Moving that perfect plugin folder to the side and playing with my origional folder (same files + everything) organised my way but using all the advice on here and other places and also using a compressed  version the game took longer to load by 2 mins,  cities to open by at least 2 mins and park menu took over 9 secs longer to open.


So I am going to use my new perfect plugin folder and funnily enough it works better and cleanitol but not compressed


Thought you might like to note my observations of the CAM. Overall its a rather large  :thumbsup:
and you all deserve a (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg152.imageshack.us%2Fimg152%2F2651%2Fkaffe06ut5.gif&hash=b712f75428e987c8f6b0e93298c7ff4cbdaf43f8)


regards
Derry



:satisfied:
TTc



Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 11, 2007, 11:57:50 AM

Derry by god i think you gave me an idea of what i can try with my issue. I don't think the
2 relate but I've been having problems again w/CTD's uuuuuugh.. packed vs not packed still
same results CTD. Heres how it plays out game loads great to region any region at that then
i click on a city to start to play OK so far so good.  Then well as if its gonna finally go into the
game it CTD's... 

I tried everything to correct the problem i had finished installing every thing for cam, even the
new CAMelots that was just put out and then thats when it all started... so i tried to restructure
my plugins even more. IE all BSC prop pack's together, BSC textures, essentials, and so forth
grouped everything. still CTD. compressed everything still ctd...

So now with Derry's observations I'm gonna try it his way even though i did clean it all up with
cleanital, but first hand I'm gonna see if i can before reinstalling cam do the restructure to make
sure i have no duplicate file, (see if thats the problem) and install everything one at a time.
not a massive DL and then install too confusing i think that might have been a problem as well. 
I will give an update later on once i gone threw the process and see how it all goes from there - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: markham22 on August 11, 2007, 02:48:52 PM
Forgive my ignorance :-[
But is there a special program that is used for creating these CAM lots??
Or do we just use the Maxis PM?
Sorry but I am sure this has been discussed before but I'm just not finding the posts :-[
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 11, 2007, 02:51:40 PM
There is a new tool in the making by wouanagaine. We have been using it extensively and are  hoping it will be finished and released soon.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: markham22 on August 11, 2007, 03:02:26 PM
Thank you :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on August 11, 2007, 04:31:30 PM
Colossusal?   My God, I realized tonight, after thinking I'm nearly done installing this huge mod, I still have  "$Deal"$ 135 files (!) left to download. All I gotta say is wow, the impact this is gonna have is huge. And for those wondering, I never really downloaded any buildings before, I was content with the Maxis files. Thats coming back to haunt me now.....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Andreas on August 14, 2007, 06:47:49 AM
Quote from: High5Tower on August 11, 2007, 04:02:59 AM
I have looked at my list of skyscrapers and its :) not going to be too difficult to get the job done. Now what I really want to learn is how to use the new startup manager. This tool I can see is essential for having fun with lots of special  regions and cities. I am trying to figure it out but not getting very far. Is there any special tuturials for this program?  Maybe I should get my son to help me with it. I really want to use that program! Any help from the community on stratup manager would be appreciated. Thank you :)

The Startup Manager v3 contains a detailed help file that should answer most of your questions. It's not that hard to use, once you understand the basic principles. There's also a help thread in the modding tools section of this forum, so if you have a question, just post it there.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 15, 2007, 02:30:53 AM
Actually
Quote from: Kitsune on August 11, 2007, 04:31:30 PM
Colossusal?   My God, I realized tonight, after thinking I'm nearly done installing this huge mod, I still have  "$Deal"$ 135 files (!) left to download. All I gotta say is wow, the impact this is gonna have is huge. And for those wondering, I never really downloaded any buildings before, I was content with the Maxis files. Thats coming back to haunt me now.....
Actually Kitsune, I'd say that would be an advantage for you, as you do not have to remove any files, if you never had them
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on August 15, 2007, 06:13:17 PM
Quote from: Diggis on August 15, 2007, 02:30:53 AM
Actually Actually Kitsune, I'd say that would be an advantage for you, as you do not have to remove any files, if you never had them

Thats true.

Another question, is there a list anywhere of what stages grow on what denisity? I'm finding I'm not getting anything really that big growing, except for a 50-60 storey tower on a medium density tile, which looks very odd cause nothing else is getting higher then 10 storeys, but I havnt zoned any high density yet. And I know the CAM is working because I have recieved a few stage 4 industrials.......
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shoreman905 on August 15, 2007, 07:48:16 PM
The type of growth you are looking for with CAM can only occur with high density zoning. All the commercial and residential CAMeLots will appear only when zoned that way. Idustrials work differently of course as do Ir (farming) lots. Give a try with high density and you will see a big difference.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rafonc on August 16, 2007, 04:28:22 AM
I have been playing now few hours CAM,and i am thinking about 1 thing. When i see querry for some buildings in corner i see CAMeLot. Ok,i understand its from CAM. But some others have for example NDEX, SUperstar etc...Could this be because i installed something wrong? Because i copied all files from zip to plugins. Perhaps i need to delete something, but everything else works perfect :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 16, 2007, 04:41:08 AM
Maybe I asked this question before so sorry for a repeat question.
  Can you just get your toes wet without getting fully soaked?.I like the idea of CAM but I would like to skip the Residental part.Thanx :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 05:18:54 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on August 15, 2007, 06:13:17 PM
Another question, is there a list anywhere of what stages grow on what denisity?

The recommendations for the different stages as developed for the "X Tool" are:

Residential Stages 1-3 - low-, medium- and high-density
Residential Stages 4-6 - medium- and high-density
Residential Stages 7-15 - only high-density

Commercial Stages 1-3 - low-, medium- and high-density
Commercial Stages 4-6 - medium- and high-density
Commercial Stages 7-15 - only high-density

Industrial Stages 1-5 - medium and high-density
Industrial Stages 6-10 - only high-density


Quote from: Kitsune on August 15, 2007, 06:13:17 PM
I'm finding I'm not getting anything really that big growing, except for a 50-60 storey tower on a medium density tile, which looks very odd cause nothing else is getting higher then 10 storeys, but I havnt zoned any high density yet.

Which building is that? Sounds like it shouldn't be growing on medium-density... ???
It's probably a pre-CAM building, since all CAMeLots are set to grow only on high-density lots.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 05:31:16 AM
Quote from: Rafonc on August 16, 2007, 04:28:22 AM
But some others have for example NDEX, SUperstar etc...Could this be because i installed something wrong? Because i copied all files from zip to plugins. Perhaps i need to delete something, but everything else works perfect :thumbsup:

That means you still have the pre-CAM versions of those lots in your plugins.
You may use the CAM Remove Lots BSC Cleanitol (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=963) to remove pre-CAM lots that were included in the "starter packs" at LEX.
However, I would not remove those that you may already have had growing in your cities.


Quote from: Bluebeard on August 16, 2007, 04:41:08 AM
Can you just get your toes wet without getting fully soaked?.I like the idea of CAM but I would like to skip the Residental part.Thanx :)

I wouldn't recommend that, BB.
Theoretically the residential developer exemplar file that is included in the CAM could be removed in Reader.
However, that would cause residential development to proceed faster than commercial, giving residential stage 8 skyscrapers a lot sooner than commercial ones.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 16, 2007, 05:39:48 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 05:18:54 AM
Which building is that? Sounds like it shouldn't be growing on medium-density... ???

Come on, you guys wouldn't have made a mistake, while editing those hundreds of lots.  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 16, 2007, 05:41:28 AM
Thanx RJ.
  I don't to mess with a fine program like CAM It's I don't want to download the the Residental Lots nothing againist the lots but I ain't into Residental skyscrapers except for Cobb.Thanx
 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 16, 2007, 05:44:33 AM
If you don't download them, they will not grow.  $%Grinno$%

the other option is not to zone high Density.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 05:46:05 AM
Quote from: Bluebeard on August 16, 2007, 05:41:28 AM
I don't want to download the the Residental Lots nothing againist the lots but I ain't into Residental skyscrapers except for Cobb.Thanx

Then I would download only the cobb32118 updated lots BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1018) package, which contains CAMeLots for most stages featuring only bat models by Cobb ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 16, 2007, 05:54:30 AM
Fast replies to help and awesome lots no wonder SC4D is the best SimCity site around.Thanx again :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rafonc on August 16, 2007, 10:43:07 AM
THanks,now its ok. I just forgot about that thing &ops
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 12:42:43 PM
Is there any chance of altering the health and education buildings with this mod so that they can cope more readily with the huge demand created, or do we just have to download existing ones. It would be nice if you created a set of civic buildings that fit in different situations that had demand to satisfy these situations, cause at the moment it feels like I need to include a Clinic and a School for every 2 or 3 skyscrapers
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 12:51:39 PM
For the time being I can only recommend to download existing ones.
There are some civic buildings in the pipeline, but they will not be uploaded right away...

Changing the capacity of in-game civic buildings is not recommended, since that might trigger the Phantom Funding Sliders bug.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 12:55:25 PM
its ok anyway, i can live with it, the filters all say i have green health and education anyway so it doesn't really matter. the more problematic thing is the transport lol

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: star.torturer on August 16, 2007, 12:55:25 PM
its ok anyway, i can live with it, the filters all say i have green health and education anyway so it doesn't really matter. the more problematic thing is the transport lol

We are aware of that too.
However, a solution might appear on the LEX tomorrow. :)
Cogeo will upload version 3.5 of his RoadTop Mass Transit (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1781.msg60401#msg60401) package, and that one will include a version for the CAM, with capacities corresponding to the CAM network capacities. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 01:05:37 PM
its the street capacities im more worried about lol, as it was a auto zoned area and i didnt make space for mass transit
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 01:15:43 PM
If you have streets, you should upgrade them to roads... ::)

Did you install one of the traffic pathfinding options that was included with the CAM?
Or in another way: Does your Plugins folder contain a subfolder called z_CAM, and what does it include?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 01:20:39 PM
yeah i know about that, i installed the biking one, lol i read the manual

and yeah i should realy upgrade them to roads, but that seems like so much hasstle lol, its not harming anybody at the moment

ill just leave it like that, this was just a test version until i got the cam working fully and i have installed all my existing plugins again.

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rafonc on August 16, 2007, 02:33:25 PM
Now i am fixing my querry problem, and its doing great. But somehow i have got 2 files, where are some lots which i guess i need to remove. But in the second there are links to them.
And in the same it says to remove for example NDEX mega props1.dat etc...But then i think i will get brown boxes?SO i am thinking which one is real. 1st is called  CAM remove lots etc..., but second RemoveListCAMModels.ANd in this i have links....I dont know where i get this second, this confuses me &mmm

Actually i feel bad, because i need to ask such a stupid question :thumbsdown: &ops
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 03:17:00 PM
The *.txt files you are referring to are files that should be used with the program BSC Cleantol™ (//http://).
You can read a little more about Cleanitol here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=236.0).

If you open the file CAM_remove_lots_etc.txt in Cleanitol, the program will find all those pre-CAM lots that were updated in the "starter packs".
Cleanitol will move them to a place outside of the Plugins folder, so that they will not appear in game.

You should read the thread CAMeLots (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0) thoroughly.
If there is a *Cleanitol*.txt file included with a model/prop mega pack or lot pack, you should open that file with Cleanitol before installing the package.
Cleanitol will remove all files that should be removed, and check if you have all needed dependencies.
If something that you need is missing, Cleanitol will give you a link to where that dependency can be downloaded.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 07:15:58 PM
So, I've just downloaded all the CAMeLots off the LEX, and im just wondering, do i need to keep all the sc4desc files? and will all the dependencies have been included in the cleanitol files i have already run? or will I have to trawl through all the readme's

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 10:37:52 PM
You need to keep all files that are included in the downloaded CAMeLots.

However, you should not keep any SC4Desc or SC4Lot files of a dependency, only the model (either a SC4Model or a DAT file).
And you do not need any of the dependencies listed when downloading a model that is needed for a CAMeLot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 11:11:37 PM
so is this setup ok to be datpacked?

all the CAMeLots in one folder
all megapacks including cam ones in one folder
all CAM models in one folder

exept for the fact that its lagging my computer to hell whenever i datpack

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 11:19:54 PM
Quote from: star.torturer on August 16, 2007, 11:11:37 PM
so is this setup ok to be datpacked?

Should be ok ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 16, 2007, 11:21:17 PM
thats good, im now getting rid of the actual folders from my plugins folder after suffering with emense amounts of lag compressing all them megapacks lol  and with that setup including all the currently available CAMeLots it works out at 1.3Gig

edit: im also wondering why some of my buildings have unfinished names like r$ stage 2 cerulean towers lol
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 17, 2007, 12:05:09 AM
If you have a building showing cerulean towers as a stage 2 then you have an old lot in plugins.
I have tried, for your information when getting CAMeLots, to name the buildings with their type, stage and name. When we were testing it proved quite interesting to see which grew so it was left in.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 17, 2007, 12:12:34 AM
ok thanks for the explanation, i was just wondering. and it was stage 11 anyway lol woops

and is there anyway of getting CO to build, i have massive demand (and i have parks) but it just grows CS
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rafonc on August 17, 2007, 05:26:50 AM
I have got a problem with cleanitol. It says error. And to check  BSC Cleanitol TM.exe. SO i did chekced it and it  says:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "BSC Cleanitol TM.py", line 2, in ?
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 82, in load_module
  File "wx\__init__.pyo", line 45, in ?
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 82, in load_module
  File "wx\_core.pyo", line 4, in ?
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 98, in load_module
ImportError: MemoryLoadLibrary failed loading wx\_core_.pyd
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "BSC Cleanitol TM.py", line 2, in ?
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 82, in load_module
  File "wx\__init__.pyo", line 45, in ?
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 82, in load_module
  File "wx\_core.pyo", line 4, in ?
  File "zipextimporter.pyo", line 98, in load_module
ImportError: MemoryLoadLibrary failed loading wx\_core_.pyd

I was checking for readme or so, but nothing that can help &mmm
Perhaps i have doing something wrong &mmm Or this may be my PC problem?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 17, 2007, 06:50:29 AM
You are missing a couple of DLL files.
Check this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=236.msg13499#msg13499) and Wouanagaine's reply to it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 17, 2007, 08:04:40 AM
Hmm... I'm almost ready to make good use of the CAM...

Here's hoping for good luck. I've just completely rebuilt my plugins folder -- 600MB of it is BSC dependencies... :P

EDIT: And just wondering - is there anywhere where I can see the pictures of the buildings that are being added to the CAM? I'd like to do some selective deletion, so I need to figure out which buildings go or not.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 17, 2007, 08:14:47 AM
Only 600 meg??? mines 1GB lol. anyway, yeah picks of each building in the cam would be fantastic, but unrealistic at the moment. I'm happy to help find links to the buildings for that other post though

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 17, 2007, 08:31:37 AM
Well, it's 1.32GB now, but I haven't finished yet. I still have something like 15 prop packs to go...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 17, 2007, 08:46:42 AM
well after packing all the CAMeLots and packs and models i got mine down to 1.29 Gig in total
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rafonc on August 17, 2007, 02:09:57 PM
ok,the dll files fixed this one. THanks a lot. It moved all the wrong files, so now i am searching what dependencies i have missing :)
It showed a lot missed dependencies, but some of them are in my plpugins folder. But i found out that they were in subfolders, when i copied them just directly to PLUGINS, cleanitol didnt showed that they are missing.Is that a bug, or it needs to be like that.
ANyway,toold is great ()stsfd()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 17, 2007, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: Rafonc on August 17, 2007, 02:09:57 PM
But i found out that they were in subfolders, when i copied them just directly to PLUGINS, cleanitol didnt showed that they are missing.Is that a bug, or it needs to be like that.

Cleanitol finds all dependencies that are in either Plugins folder ( \My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins or \Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Plugins ) or in any subfolder of these two Plugins folders.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on August 17, 2007, 04:33:40 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 16, 2007, 05:18:54 AM
Which building is that? Sounds like it shouldn't be growing on medium-density... ???
It's probably a pre-CAM building, since all CAMeLots are set to grow only on high-density lots.

Its the Sidfeldt Tower ... I keep destroying it.... lol
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 17, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on August 17, 2007, 04:33:40 PM
Its the Sidfeldt Tower ... I keep destroying it.... lol

The Sidfeldt Tower was a so called TIOLI (Take It Or Leave It) by NDEX.
It is very badly modded, being a stage 6 skyscraper, growing on medium- and high-density zones.

With 4,250 CO§§ jobs it is definitely your largest stage 6 CO§§ office in your plugins folder, and it will grow like a weed (as long as the demand is high).

I would recommend looking for the following files and permanently deleting them:
        NDEX_DTB_CO_Sidfeldt_Grow.dat
        NDEX_DTB_CO_Sidfeldt_Plop.dat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on August 17, 2007, 05:18:02 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on August 17, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
The Sidfeldt Tower was a so called TIOLI (Take It Or Leave It) by NDEX.
It is very badly modded, being a stage 6 skyscraper, growing on medium- and high-density zones.

With 4,250 CO§§ jobs it is definitely your largest stage 6 CO§§ office in your plugins folder, and it will grow like a weed (as long as the demand is high).

I would recommend looking for the following files and permanently deleting them:
        NDEX_DTB_CO_Sidfeldt_Grow.dat
        NDEX_DTB_CO_Sidfeldt_Plop.dat

Yeah thats what it was, fixed a few others too, apparently doing this at 4am caused me to miss a few things.....  :-[
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 18, 2007, 04:44:14 AM
A big thumbs-up for the CAM!  :thumbsup:

Now, it's getting to the point where I simply can't keep up with agricultural demand. :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2007, 05:32:36 PM
OK back on pg 28 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1177.msg58994#msg58994) i had noted a few of personal observations on CAM and if you click that you will see
what i have found now as of today that i think has caused my problems... Todate I have
locted in my plugins some troubling files that i belive caused some problems with more that i
had installed for CAM and all the files associated with it....


So with those outta my plugins folder along with a few others i had gotten from SimCity Exchange that was no information availble i deleted them so just a heads up... I will be retrying CAM here soon when i get the energy to
reinstall everything LoL....

One other thing i did also was to go threw my plugins and orginze them a bit better to hopefully see if that
was the problem IE all bsc lots to gether but still in seprate folders and all the prop packs and mega pack's
together in one folder and all textures together as well...

So yes i've been pretty busy reorginize my folder before i put CAM back in and of course to save some
heart ache i dl'ed the all current dependceny's off the list MG provided..... I hope this helps out anyone..

Patrick
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: perfectdark158 on August 19, 2007, 06:22:08 PM
I have problems downloading the buildings can any one help me?  :-[
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2007, 06:23:38 PM
perfectdark you only need to ask for help in one area.... see anther area where i answerd you lol
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: perfectdark158 on August 19, 2007, 06:32:58 PM
lol sorry my bad
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 19, 2007, 06:37:04 PM

its allllllll good.... Just dont do it again lol  :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 19, 2007, 10:38:38 PM
Quote from: patfirefghtr on August 19, 2007, 05:32:36 PM

  • Plugin_080_ParkingFines: - I belive i gotten this from ST mods section
  • Purification Park 1_4ca17820: - I think this is one of the orginal first files I dl'ed from SimCity Exchange
  • speedmod: - Anther offender from ST mod section
  • Prevent_I-r_Lots: - Cant remeber where this one came from, but im betting ST Mods again
  • Rich persons park_ad055a28: - Anther one i dl'ed in the beging from SimCity Exchange
  • x900 booster Res$$$_8c2e1332: - This one i know for sure i gotten from SimCity Exchange back in the day

Thanks Patrick, I will have to go through that list later on...

Like all ordinance mods, the Parking Fine Ordinance is CAMpatible.
GrampaAl's Prevent IR Lots is actually included in the BSC No Maxis mod and is CAMpatible if loaded after CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 20, 2007, 02:11:05 AM

Ahh ok kewl Rj, those was the ones i found i couldnt remeber but guess what??? I still saved what i dl'ed from cam last time and well after removing those for mentioned files i was able to play with out any problems except now i cant farms to grow at all.... I think that might be related to dat packing... I datpacked all the CAM files then repacked them into one file... I bet that is my problem... I do however if you want those files have them set aside i can email them to you and see if one of the others a the offending file???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 20, 2007, 12:20:21 PM
Sorry if this is in wrong area but It is a CAM problem.
   MY R$ Tax Line is "Blinking". &hlp
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 20, 2007, 12:56:09 PM
Quote from: Bluebeard on August 20, 2007, 12:20:21 PM
Sorry if this is in wrong area but It is a CAM problem.

And this is the CAM area! :thumbsup:


Quote from: Bluebeard on August 20, 2007, 12:20:21 PM
MY R$ Tax Line is "Blinking". &hlp
However, I'm not so sure that CAM is the reason for that... :-\
Don't suppose you could take a picture of it either...
Does it still blink if you save your city, exit the game and re-enter?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 20, 2007, 01:00:57 PM
Sorry no Pic and Yes when I save then re-enter the problem is still there.
    It's either CAM or another Vista issue.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cammo2003 on August 20, 2007, 11:57:29 PM
Quote from: Bluebeard on August 20, 2007, 01:00:57 PM
Sorry no Pic and Yes when I save then re-enter the problem is still there.
    It's either CAM or another Vista issue.Thanx

I'd guess it's either Vista or possibly a video card issue. Probably Vista though, lol.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 21, 2007, 12:01:42 AM
What do you mean by "it's blinking"? I can't really figure out what's causing it if there isn't enough detail. :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 21, 2007, 01:45:22 AM

Im still not getting any farm growth and my city has been going now for 7 yrs, also industry has taken a dive, But im getting CAMeLots in industry ie carch and sg floppers stoppers....  Residentals has no further growth, and com is also no growth except all or most custom content i had prior to cam but no cam lots are popping up... hellllllllllllp
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 21, 2007, 03:10:51 AM
Generally, farming gets killed by education and traffic.
However, I would need quite some more information in order to be able to give you a better answer, Patrick!

Preferably I would want to see the query window of the Census Repository Facility, version 2 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=41&threadid=84816&enterthread=y).
Are you playing in an existing region that developed before installing the CAM? How many neighbours do you have?

If you start a new city in the region, and won't provide any education in it, you should get farms growing if you zone for them.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 21, 2007, 03:23:04 AM

OK ty Rj i dl'ed the Census Repository v2 and Ninja's model.  i have a total of 5 citys in the region and i have them lined up like a L shape with citys A and B the bottom part of the L and then c to d to e is the connection order... this region im playing is the same one i had the CTD issue with, but since i removed all those files i said earlier i havent had a CTD but this new issue lol... OK i will post further info later from the census v2, but now im gonna try and get some sleep.... TY again Rj for helping me - pat
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 21, 2007, 03:41:50 AM
Sleep well, Pat! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tooheys on August 21, 2007, 04:20:45 AM
Pat, have had the same problems on and off. My next update is a rural area and it took a hell of a long time to develop (by my standards anyway). New residential zones just wouldn't grow for a year or two and some farms just refused to grow despite a high demand (2k plus). Switching between
cities helped, letting each grow for a year or two, also resizing (mainly downsizing) the farm lot sometimes resulted in immediate growth. All nonsensical I know, but in the end, things turned out OK. Maybe an effect of the CAM on an existing region, would be interesting to know if the same problems have occurred in a new one.

Jimmymac, if you're around, would be interested to here if you had any problems with your rural areas under CAM.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on August 21, 2007, 05:29:04 AM
QuoteGenerally, farming gets killed by education and traffic.
However, I would need quite some more information in order to be able to give you a better answer, Patrick!

Ripple gives good advice. I've also learned to zone pockets of dirty industry at out of the way places to satisfy ID demand. Farm growth slows down or stalls when the ID demand bar graph rises or gets near your I-AG demand graph. Basically, you'll have farm demand but the game will not want to build farms. Waiting rather to build some dirty industry ... or so it seems. Remember that the whole thing is regional. I plan to de-zone those out of the way ID plots later when my region develops and starts leaning towards Commercials.



Edit: Just saw Toohey's comment. Switching between cities will help. I played my first city in a new CAM region up to year 25 which is when I-AG slowed down a bit. Dirty industry at the time was a bunch of small stage 1 stuff. I then developed two more cities up to about year 25. I then went back to the first city and - boom - a bunch of big dirty industry buildings popped up. This caused the demand for dirty industry to drop because of the numbers of jobs these large buildings provide to the Sim community. Farm development took off. Quickly filling in previously undeveloped zones and was fairly robust for a while. I can say from all this that, my first city in and of itself could not grow large industrials due to a lack of regional demand. 

So - grow farms, grow population, grow industry. Go somewhere else and do the same. Then go back and grow more farms, grow more residentials in the form of small villages because they'll create farm demand. They'll create demand for industry too. So zone some more of that .... a bit of a balancing act.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Toblakai on August 21, 2007, 09:50:26 PM
Hello,

I've got a question. I'm in need of rail stations with CAMpattible cappacities. I have the MTRT-V1 road top mas transit by uroncha, and they have CAMpattible capacities in the 10-20k region and they work out great, but I can't find a rail station with a huge capacity to use with my CAM cities without it beeing huge itself. What do you guys use? Currently I use the marast 1x6 and 2x6 stations with over 30k usage in some area's with a max capacity of 7500. I like the stations though, they look nice, take up no space and the regular maxis one would be only 2k.

So any advice?

Toblakai
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 21, 2007, 10:03:14 PM

OK Rj here is the Census info Reguested 6 months apart...  As Dave ( tooheys ) suggested i tried to break down the size of the farms and nothing... 

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F8666%2Fcamelotcensusmk2.png&hash=24aa8b1fd736bb763c6cae8fa4a0516de04e6146)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F2323%2Fcamelotcensus2fq3.png&hash=fe6da0ef2a371a7972c180615587e02b138e60f7)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 21, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
Pat, this city is far too well educated to support any farming.

Take a look at the workforce demand (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1878.0).
Your EQ should be below 50 in order to get a good drive for farming. Your city clearly has an EQ above 150...


Quote from: Toblakai on August 21, 2007, 09:50:26 PM
I've got a question. I'm in need of rail stations with CAMpattible cappacities. I have the MTRT-V1 road top mas transit by uroncha, and they have CAMpattible capacities in the 10-20k region and they work out great, but I can't find a rail station with a huge capacity to use with my CAM cities without it beeing huge itself. What do you guys use? Currently I use the marast 1x6 and 2x6 stations with over 30k usage in some area's with a max capacity of 7500. I like the stations though, they look nice, take up no space and the regular maxis one would be only 2k.

Prepo's Helsinki Railway Station (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1878.0) has a capacity of 20,000.
An alternative would be to mod your favourite station and increase its capacity.
If you decide to do that, you have to remember to bulldoze all existing stations before installing the modded version.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 22, 2007, 11:21:08 AM
ahhh OK now i understand thank you Rj for helping me out again - pat your loyal pain




its been my pleasure to help you out as i can there Rj...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 22, 2007, 11:25:28 AM
Quote from: patfirefghtr on August 22, 2007, 11:21:08 AM
pat your loyal pain

...but mostly very helpful, and thank you Pat for all help you've given here! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 24, 2007, 07:31:07 AM
QuoteYour EQ should be below 50 in order to get a good drive for farming. Your city clearly has an EQ above 150...

Still got farms with an EQ of 160... wonder how that happened?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 24, 2007, 08:37:59 AM
Getting Farms at a High I.Q. is normal for me.My 1 city has a I.Q. at about 170 and Farms want more land. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 24, 2007, 09:09:37 AM
Even if the average EQ is 160-170, there may still be R§ people having an EQ below 100 in your cities.
All the way up to an EQ of 150, there is still a 16% drive of farms from the R§ population.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 24, 2007, 09:22:13 AM
I have found a bug... It may not actually be anything directly to do with the CAM just because of the extra densities.

Whenever I build lots of "pollution eaters", then demolish them it overloads the system with pollution infinitely IE even by adding 40 water treatment plants and 60 higher capacity ones.

The only way I have found to fix it is to import water from neighbours.

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 24, 2007, 09:29:03 AM
Thanx RJ:
  So even if the charts reads 170 and farms want more space means there are few morons refusing to get a education. :thumbsup:
   GOD I love SC4D. &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 24, 2007, 10:19:39 AM
Right I just overcame my little water problem and took a screenshot of the amount of "pollution eaters" that I needed to get ontop of the problem

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F3401%2Fddup4.jpg&hash=815b4d486a17fd650f868b3d9a57ab7d6074e186)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 24, 2007, 10:27:44 AM
BB - your looking to be banned anytime soon... &sly
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 24, 2007, 10:54:34 AM
Quote from: star.torturer on August 24, 2007, 09:22:13 AM
Whenever I build lots of "pollution eaters", then demolish them it overloads the system with pollution infinitely IE even by adding 40 water treatment plants and 60 higher capacity ones.

That is known since long before the CAM.

Certain "pollution eaters", as you call them, are modded with too high pollution reducing values, causing the property that contains the pollution in game to either overflow or underflow, in which case the value would flip around to the maximum again.

You should avoid pollution reducers that are too radical. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on August 24, 2007, 11:02:23 AM
Dam, they do soooo good for the air pollution overlay lol

Thanks anyway, i just restarted, as the air and water pollution were so hight that the whole city was just red in both them and the desirability from R$ though to I$$$
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on August 24, 2007, 12:20:34 PM
DioAngel is there a problem?.I mean threating to Ban someone because they love SC4D or was it using the G word?.
Quote from: dioangel on August 24, 2007, 10:27:44 AM
BB - your looking to be banned anytime soon... &sly
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 24, 2007, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: Bluebeard on August 24, 2007, 09:29:03 AM
So even if the charts reads 170 and farms want more space means there are few morons refusing to get a education. :thumbsup:

Quote from: dioangel on August 24, 2007, 10:27:44 AM
BB - your looking to be banned anytime soon... &sly

Linda, there was nothing controversal about BB's morons.
He was referring to sims, and I have to agree they are morons when coming to town.

Depending on the wealth (§/§§/§§§) of new sims moving into town, they obtain the following Age, HQ and EQ when settling down:

[tabular type=1]
[row] [head]R Wealth[/head] [head]
Age[/head] [head]
HQ[/head] [head]
EQ[/head] [/row]
[row] [data]R§§§[/data] [data]
35[/data] [data]
60[/data] [data]
60[/data] [/row]
[row] [data]R§§[/data] [data]
30[/data] [data]
40[/data] [data]
40[/data] [/row]
[row] [data]R§[/data] [data]
25[/data] [data]
20[/data] [data]
20[/data] [/row]
[/tabular]

Thus, in a developing city, where new sims constantly are arriving (population is increasing), especially newly settled low-wealth sims are young, sick and uneducated... real morons. It will take quite a while till they achieve the same health status and education as the older sims in your city.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 24, 2007, 12:57:13 PM
RippleJet and BB - I understand... sorry guys.  &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on August 25, 2007, 05:51:07 PM
Hey guys. I did a re-render of the Kwai Chung Estates. Anyhoo, I have CAMed some lots but since I actually do not have CAM installed, I need somebody to test them and get some screen shots. They have pretty high capacity, since these are HK Governmental Housing, so be prepared to have a large city and room for R$ growth. :satisfied:

PHASE 1 7x5 LOT 8320 R$   STAGE 13
PHASE 2 5x12 LOT 12120 (ithink) R$   STAGE 14

just pm me, or post in my thread
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1556.40

make sure screenies look kinda presentable - since I will be using them to upload the CAM lots officially on the LEX.
here is the file
http://download.yousendit.com/C5B8D36834F163D1

Its only allowed 7 downloads so 1st come 1st serve. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: aestiva on August 25, 2007, 09:05:36 PM
Ok, Question. I have installed the CAM, all CAM related stuff, all required dependencies, etc., I did keep my current region (as it is my best so far), and there seem to be no real problem; but, despite towering demand indicators growth is very slow.  I'm thinking I must need to rezone large Residential areas to accommodate the huge Commercial demand.  My question is: am I right in thinking this?   %confuso

And please accept my eternal gratitude for all you fantastic creations. Because of you guys the game just gets better and better. :thumbsup:

-Aestiva
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on August 25, 2007, 09:11:05 PM
Did you check desirability? If there is low desirability, the high rises will not come. Check for excessive traffic, lack of parks and the like. Also, check the InCAMpatible Mods thread, just in case you have a mod conflicting with the CAM. Also, yes, you need to zone Dense Residential zones if you want residential hi-rises, and Dense Commercial zones if you want commercial hi-rises.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: aestiva on August 25, 2007, 09:24:53 PM
Thanks for replying:

Desirability isn't a factor.  And two of my cities have populations approaching 200k.

Maybe I have to change my usual mode of play. If I zone Hi-density over a large area can I expect more and faster development of the same?  Or will I still get annoying "FleaMkt" lots?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Filasimo on August 25, 2007, 09:31:44 PM
keep in mind that creating a thorough and comprehensive transit system in your city is very important and also to make sure demand is met. this is a new way to play the game but at a more challenging level
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on August 25, 2007, 09:32:12 PM
You should zone dense commercial on top. There is no guarantee that the flea markets will stop coming, but after you rezone the lots, then CAMelots may will grow.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: aestiva on August 25, 2007, 09:46:57 PM
Transportation advice from a NAM guy, I'm humbled.  In reply however, I have a pretty diverse transport network and I have had some CAM buildings appear.   One of the reasons I was intrigued by the CAM was that most of my cities stagnated in the low 200k's , and I was hoping this might allow for ease of growth well beyond that number.  In addition, as I'm sure many of you can relate I can get city growth to that stage in just a few sessions of game play. Maybe I'm being impatient.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Filasimo on August 25, 2007, 10:30:37 PM
aestiva, give it time for the city to grow into the higher stages it takes a while for it to reach into the later stages, just make sure you maintain and expand your city transportation network even try to build residential areas in the regions around your city and connect them to your transportation network that way itll further solidify the CBD area in your main city. by experimenting with that will you be able to reach the higher stages
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: aestiva on August 25, 2007, 10:33:46 PM
Thank you for all the advice, I'll give it a couple of hours of game play and see what happens.

BTW, I'm really glad I came back here.  Thanks everyone. You really do have the best stuff.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Filasimo on August 25, 2007, 10:37:29 PM
no problem! if you have any other questions well be on the lookout in this thread, i forgot to also mention that if u loaded the CAM with an existing city itll be a year or so to adapt to the new CAM not sure about the specifics, also make sure u visit the CAM threads for more useful information
good luck!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Toblakai on August 26, 2007, 02:39:39 AM
Right,

I've managed to grow the kwai chung state stage 1 very quickly. Here are some pics:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv395%2FMieneke%2FSerra%2520Peninsula%2520Pictures%2FSerrapolis%2FKwaiChungEstate1.jpg&hash=526f97eca53af63a7467dc9c76a4d4a822d1d4e1)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv395%2FMieneke%2FSerra%2520Peninsula%2520Pictures%2FSerrapolis%2FKwaiChungEstate2.jpg&hash=7962567a5e8a4da95e68aea6343f7c91dfebbf20)

Don't know if you also need pics of the stage 2 but that one is proving quite elusive to grow. I am zoning an entire R$ region with dirty industry, but that will take me some time. Anyhoe, if these picures are any good PM me and ill cut out something from the original images for the pic with the upload.

I'm back to growing that stage 14 kwai Chung Estate Stage 2,

Toblakai
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on August 26, 2007, 03:57:20 AM
Ohh very nice!! You dont need to post a pick of Phase 2. I just want to see if it grows or not. 12120 is quite a lot of sims, I want to know if its possible.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 26, 2007, 04:06:32 AM
Ok, I thought you wanted pictures as well, so here are some more... :P
These have not grown though, they are plopped with the help of Buggi. ;)

The first two pictures below contain two blocks of Kwai Chung Phase 1 and two blocks of Kwai Chung Phase 2 (day and night view).
The second two pictures contain three blocks of Kwai Chung Phase 2 (day and night view).

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F8255%2Fkwaichungdayoz6.jpg&hash=0822e7680a12181b6ecaa8cb5bd5bc5e4b4946b7)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg440.imageshack.us%2Fimg440%2F6394%2Fkwaichungnightot0.jpg&hash=ef80ab37876ca6f8f9c15b230e5712823e496e00)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F1481%2Fkwaichungphase2dayde8.jpg&hash=392a559bf5faea6d765a3b0cf70eb6b6a8e09031)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg441.imageshack.us%2Fimg441%2F8886%2Fkwaichungphase2nightve4.jpg&hash=af5445463a481e0a88b341931ba7b51e9cc897b3)

However, I have to say that I was surprised to notice they do not have nightlighting.
I think you should fix this before uploading.

Another thing that needs fixing are the props.
If you leave the props as they are, their hover query will not work:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg204.imageshack.us%2Fimg204%2F7365%2Fkwaichungphase2buildingpe8.jpg&hash=3306787ac3648809262fcbcd837929504a82244c)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg520.imageshack.us%2Fimg520%2F9184%2Fkwaichungphase2propquerco3.jpg&hash=40e36457336ff22d8ce9063a48e477ecde3d1eab)

For each prop, two properties need to be added/corrected:

User Visible Name Key must be added and set to 0x0,0x0,0x0
Query as Main Buiding must be changed to True, unless you want the prop to have its own name (e.g. Garage, etc.)

More about this can be found in the tutorial Names and descriptions of buildings and props (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=552.msg14713#msg14713).
This is an error in the "X Tool" as well, that has been pointed out, but we are still waiting for Wouanagaine to return from his RLS... %confuso

PS.
All pictures are sized 500×376 (exactly 200% of the size needed for the LEX)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dioangel on August 26, 2007, 01:48:17 PM
*Jaw drops on the keyboard*

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SWEEEET!!  &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on August 27, 2007, 02:41:21 PM
I do not know why the props are not working properly, that is odd.  ??? I double checked them and they seemed ok to me. Oh well. Please  post if anybody has successfully grown the larger Phase 2 lot. No pic needed.

Anyhoo, I did a BUNCH of CAM lots, here they are http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1087
if anybody has any problems of bugs please pm and I will try and correct them.  :satisfied:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: joeynymets on August 28, 2007, 05:44:43 PM
Can anyone help me?  I downloaded the CAM and in my agricultural city the farms stopped growing after i installed the CAM
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on August 28, 2007, 09:44:11 PM
Do you have CAM farming lots installed? What about the BSC No Maxis mod?

More information is needed before anyone will be able to help...without it no one is able to diagnose the problem.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: joeynymets on August 29, 2007, 06:53:28 AM
No i dont have either of those installed, do i need them installed?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 29, 2007, 07:22:09 AM
You don't need to have the CAM farming lots installed but you will not get any farms above stage 3 growing with out the BLS Farms pack and the BLS, SG and CSX fields packs and the CAM farms.
Do you have the CAM counters? If so it would help if you showed an image of that status of your city. The Census Repository image would also help.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 29, 2007, 07:46:41 AM
Are there any stage 4 and 5 farms released?  I have the 6 and 7 farms, but didn't see any 4 or 5 set.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 29, 2007, 07:50:11 AM
There are a couple in my farm pack and also in the BLS D66 pack I posted.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on August 29, 2007, 07:58:16 AM
Hmm, might have to go check them out....  Great work, will see what effect this has on my city this weekend
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 29, 2007, 02:08:41 PM
OK im at a total loss here im getting sparatic growth with CAM nothing like i was when i first installed everything for it... At first all was great then i had troubles with CTD's then i restructed my plugins had CAM out and then i put cam back in after my restructer... Good news no CTD's but now im not having really any CAM growth... I even went into a new region and still im at a loss...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 29, 2007, 02:28:25 PM
Putting CAM in and out and in of use was probably not a very good idea, Pat... it takes quite a while for the game to settle with the new demand levels each time.
And each time there is also a risk that you will screw up the demand levels saved in the saved game file (depending on your possible regional commuters).

You could take a snapshot of one of your city's demand shown in the query of the Census Repository Facility. That could help a little...

Otherwise, I think I would recommend that you restart a fresh region with only the CAM and whatever CAMeLots you've got installed.
Just to see that you do get the CAM running in an empty region to start with. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on August 29, 2007, 02:29:43 PM
OK thank you Rj that is what i was thinking i would have to do settle down the upset in the balance of things lol... That just gives me anther op to perfect my Plop water skills some more too and do diffrent things as well lol
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: aestiva on August 29, 2007, 09:16:49 PM
Just a reply to let you know that the CAM is the greatest! I see how it is working now!  I makes it nearly new game. I actually had to adjust my playing style.  I've got new challenges.  Thank you thank you thank you. . .  :satisfied:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on August 30, 2007, 01:34:40 AM
It can be hard for people to readjust their playing style, but it is worth it.

Though I was lucky in the sense that I didn't need to do much adjustment... all I had to do was reassess the time span in which I do things (it's quite a bit longer with the CAM, but that's fine with me).

Have fun with it! It'll give you a whole new perspective on the game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on September 01, 2007, 07:29:46 PM
Any suggestions for a camified garbage and power lots? Esspecially the garbage, at this point I've given up and using mods as to not worry about, and I really dont like that solution....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Toblakai on September 02, 2007, 12:20:03 AM
I use these:

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=results

This is a set of 6 nuclear plants with "real world" output levels. Only my 2.000.000+ CAMelot city needed two of the best plants in the pack. Costs etc. are scaled accordingly and they look good and are bug-free.

For garbage I use the:

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?p=results

It's a modded waste to energy incinerator that has more capacity, but costs more too. the pollution has been reduced. Since the CAM has adjusted the garbage levels you wont need too many of these in a city.

Toblakai
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 02, 2007, 12:32:11 AM
Toblakai: The links are not working but I think you mean cogeo's set of nuclear power plants here: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12299
I am not sure which waste to energy plant you mean, though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 02, 2007, 03:19:55 AM
I've used Cogeo's realistic nuclear power plants for a long time as well. :thumbsup:

I would like to take this opportunity to invite Cogeo to upload them on the LEX, together with his other gems that I've used, e.g. his Rail Traffic Controllers, Pedmall Transit Pack and Semitransparent Stations (which should get CAM capacities). ::)

Garbage I usually export to a neighbouring industrial city with incinerators (even the one by Maxis works ok) and reimport electricity.
If you want something from the future for garbage disposal, I would recommend RalphaelNinja's Hydro Plasma Converter IV (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2840).
Don't be afraid of its seemingly high monthly cost! You will get the money back through I-D taxation, starting the month after you've plopped it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Toblakai on September 02, 2007, 04:00:20 AM
Darn links, they are links to search results, but the search engine on the stex seems to be down... hence the url errors.

I searched there for "Wastetoenergy Mod" which is a modified waste to energy incinerator as described above. don't know out of hand who made it. It messes up your garbage graphs though, so I might try that Hydro Plasma Converter RippleJet.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on September 02, 2007, 09:26:54 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 02, 2007, 03:19:55 AM
I've used Cogeo's realistic nuclear power plants for a long time as well. :thumbsup:

I would like to take this opportunity to invite Cogeo to upload them on the LEX, together with his other gems that I've used, e.g. his Rail Traffic Controllers, Pedmall Transit Pack and Semitransparent Stations (which should get CAM capacities). ::)

Garbage I usually export to a neighbouring industrial city with incinerators (even the one by Maxis works ok) and reimport electricity.
If you want something from the future for garbage disposal, I would recommend RalphaelNinja's Hydro Plasma Converter IV (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2840).
Don't be afraid of its seemingly high monthly cost! You will get the money back through I-D taxation, starting the month after you've plopped it.

I dont care about costs - I use the moolah cheat! :)  And yes, those semi-transparent stations need to get camified - I have the medium station in one of my cities at 500% capacity, and my GLR line aint liking that eithier.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on September 02, 2007, 07:34:47 PM
Try the Black Waste Management. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on September 03, 2007, 03:53:56 AM
@Bluebeard: do you mean the Black Hole Waste Management? they are a good set of buildings for CAM use, especially version 1
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on September 03, 2007, 05:25:43 AM
The Original Black Hole lots are awesome.I tell anyone if you have a Garbage problem the only real solution is the Black Hole Waste Management.
    Now I havn't gotten to deep with CAM so I ain't sure yet but I think this solution will work. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cogeo on September 03, 2007, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 02, 2007, 03:19:55 AM
I would like to take this opportunity to invite Cogeo to upload them on the LEX, together with his other gems that I've used, e.g. his Rail Traffic Controllers, Pedmall Transit Pack and Semitransparent Stations (which should get CAM capacities). ::)

Just saw this. Feel really flattered!  :) (j/k)
I could upload these on the LEX too, but I never thought there would ever be a demand for these. They use all-Maxis models and props and consequently they look old-ish, at least now. I made these because I didn't like the ingame NPP - the output is unrealistically low and expensive (nearing the cost of renewables) - you would need a string of power plants to power a medium/large city. So this was mostly a modding project (and to a lesser degree a lotting one).
I have started a BAT project for a NPP. I chose the EPR power station. There is no such a NPP in existence at present, but there is one under construction in Olkiluoto, Finland. I have found many brochures, documents and pics about this, even a cardboard model (this was the main reason for chosing this specific plant). Here is my thread on ST (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=74413&STARTPAGE=4#1137765). The BAT is real-scale. Most of the work has yet to be done (what you see in the pics is just the turbine building and a small ancillary building). Most of the detail is on the nuclear building and the emergency diesel generators - there quite a few details on the electrical structures too, plus some special props that need to be made. Unfortunately I have no time to do this in the foreseeable future (at least till spring 2008) due to my job requirements (I will keep sneaking into SC4D, but there will be no time for SC4, let alone developing custom content). This would be an acceptable BAT/Lot for CAM, so if someone would wish to continue work on it, I would be happy to hand over my work so far, as well as all related material (though these can easily be found on the web). I can also help with reviewing/testing, though not carry-out any kind of development.

As for the other lots:
- Rail Traffic controllers need some little work, basically add a prop on the lots (they are almost impossible to identify). There are some rail props I think, though a custom prop like a signal post would be very easy to make.
- Ped mall stations can be somewhat improved too: there are some improved versions of the garage models (less steep, improved colours etc) - never released, also the subway stations might be possible to be modified so that they can accept a pathfile for the pedestrians (I couldn't do this at the time they were released, so those subway stations are just "normal" subway stations with pedmall-like textures and slightly increased capacity and maintenance cost - adding a pathfile would make them better integrated with the pedmall tiles). The reason I have nearly abandoned these is that the latest version of NAM was a... blow for pedmall tiles: a) The landmark effect (which was indeed set to a very high value in the previous versions) has now been removed completely and the players are advised to use plazas for this; the lots served by the pedmall tiles suffer from worse-than-average commute and lack of customers (traffic in front of them), and this results in only modest development around the pedestrian streets; increased desirabilty can counterbalance this, so the landmark effect shouldn't be removed - ideally set to a lower value like say an open paved tile. b) The pedestrian automata were removed on grounds that they overloaded the graphics engine; to my opinion one of the nicest eyecandy features was lost, and I'm not really convinced if the resources gain was worth (esp when compared to the total number of automata in the city, cars, pedestrians, trains etc); moderation would again be the best choice, eg reduce the number of pedestrian automata to a third or fourth of the original (the original setting was too high indeed, causing pedmall tiles looking like ant nests). If the NAM team could sort out the above, I would update this pack too.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 03, 2007, 03:41:26 PM
Quote from: cogeo on September 03, 2007, 03:18:17 PM
I could upload these on the LEX too, but I never thought there would ever be a demand for these. They use all-Maxis models and props and consequently they look old-ish, at least now.

However, the modding is perfect and they function as they should, and are better than the in-game NPP. :thumbsup:


Quote from: cogeo on September 03, 2007, 03:18:17 PM
I have started a BAT project for a NPP. I chose the EPR power station. There is no such a NPP in existence at present, but there is one under construction in Olkiluoto, Finland.

Guess if I would want to see that one in the game! ::)
I hope you'll be able to finish it well before the real one at least!


Quote from: cogeo on September 03, 2007, 03:18:17 PM
If the NAM team could sort out the above, I would update this pack too.

Now, where is Andreas? %confuso
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Swamper77 on September 03, 2007, 07:06:09 PM
Quote from: cogeo on September 03, 2007, 03:18:17 PM
...the latest version of NAM was a... blow for pedmall tiles: a) The landmark effect (which was indeed set to a very high value in the previous versions) has now been removed completely and the players are advised to use plazas for this; the lots served by the pedmall tiles suffer from worse-than-average commute and lack of customers (traffic in front of them), and this results in only modest development around the pedestrian streets; increased desirabilty can counterbalance this, so the landmark effect shouldn't be removed - ideally set to a lower value like say an open paved tile.
The "effects" were part of a test file that Tropod put together in the early days of the NAM. It was accidentally inserted into the NAM for one of the releases. Tropod himself said it that was not supposed to have happened. They literally acted as the "cheat" air/water pollution lots that are on the STEX and as a landfill in every city that they were placed in.

Quoteb) The pedestrian automata were removed on grounds that they overloaded the graphics engine; to my opinion one of the nicest eyecandy features was lost, and I'm not really convinced if the resources gain was worth (esp when compared to the total number of automata in the city, cars, pedestrians, trains etc); moderation would again be the best choice, eg reduce the number of pedestrian automata to a third or fourth of the original (the original setting was too high indeed, causing pedmall tiles looking like ant nests). If the NAM team could sort out the above, I would update this pack too.
The pedestrians were added by adding Occupant Groups to the Ped Mall Tile exemplars for the pieces. Each puzzle piece has an exemplar that references the model(s) for the puzzle piece. This is where the Occupant Groups get added. As for the overload on systems, some people reported that their computers got slowed down by the sheer numbers of pedestrians. It wouldn't be so bad if every other tile or so produced them, but all the Ped Mall tiles were producing the pedestrians which created the slow down on some slower computers.


A separate plugin could be made for those that liked the eyecandy and effects of the Ped Mall tiles from the last version, so those folks wouldn't impose their preferences on everyone. And having reduced effects like the open paved areas is a feasible solution, too. We will have to come up with a standard for the strength and radii of the pollution effects so they are kept manageable. Set the effects too high and you get a green "radiation" effect across your cities. This is caused by the park/landmark effects being set too high.

-Swamper77
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on September 03, 2007, 11:14:50 PM
Hey, I just have to say thankyou to all you talented people who worked on CAM.  I have just played a test city with it for 30 mins (to test the SAM) and my industrial areas have never looked to pretty.  50 ID BTE lots, and 80 (yes 80) IM BTE lots.  I've posted pics in the SAM area.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Andreas on September 04, 2007, 04:53:40 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 03, 2007, 03:41:26 PM
Now, where is Andreas? %confuso

I didn't do it. ;) No, actually, I didn't really know about the effects anyway, but I think Jan explained it very well. I'm not exactly a transit modder, but I think this is an issue that should be researched a bit more detailed indeed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on September 04, 2007, 10:45:01 AM
do we know if their will be CAM versions of the bigcity reward series, i loved those big neoclassial pieces...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 04, 2007, 11:08:07 AM
CAM rewards will be appearing, but I can't tell which and in what order...

The CAMeLot Counter (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1073) itself is the only one so far, but I've heard a rumour saying that Bengt's Helsinki City Hall will be a CAM reward... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: flame1396 on September 08, 2007, 12:22:26 PM
Quote from: ssc4k on August 04, 2007, 04:58:06 PM
can someone tell me how having more growth stage levels helps me in any way?
why not jsut have it the old way?and why was it calle dcam instead of something like  "SLAM stage level addon mod"?

its not like its adding on a expansion pack, its not exactly colossal.

???

Its the hugest thing to hit sc4 since the NAM...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on September 08, 2007, 05:45:11 PM
Cogeo's nuclear power plant lots, these ones: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12299

I need 8 of these to keep a my region of 2.5 humming, are there any bigger ones out there? Its a shame that modular nuclear project on ST died.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: willy88 on September 08, 2007, 06:07:42 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F6884%2Fover9000jd8.jpg&hash=31501c1436ec9317e4f863694f9914b2ef232144)

IT'S OVER NINE-THOUSAND!!!11  :shocked2:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on September 08, 2007, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: willy88 on September 08, 2007, 06:07:42 PM
IT'S OVER NINE-THOUSAND!!!11  :shocked2:

You should see it when you have demand mods on - and I'm realizing there not quite strong enough........
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: willy88 on September 08, 2007, 08:11:41 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on September 08, 2007, 05:45:11 PM
I need 8 of these to keep a my region of 2.5 humming, are there any bigger ones out there? Its a shame that modular nuclear project on ST died.

Not really a nuclear plant, but insanely powerful nonetheless:

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11118

Produces over 500,000 MWH.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: IanB on September 10, 2007, 12:54:44 PM
I am brand new to SC4, although I did enjoy SC2 and SC3 a lot some years ago. I am going through quite a steep learning curve as I try to absorb all the information on multiple forums, much of which seems to be outdated and with many dead and broken links, and trying to keep track of all the acronyms flying around (NAM/CAM/LEX/PLEX/STEX/TGI and other stuff I haven't even found yet like ANT) is a bit of a nightmare. Anyway... since I am brand new to the game, it seems pointless wasting time on playing the "vanilla" version as the CAM looks to be such an improvement, and I'm trying to find out as much as I can before taking the plunge.

I have two Landmark questions:

1. From reading this thread, the Stage 7 farms in CAM seem to be exclusively landmarks. I realise that for some people it might be funny to have a Great Pyramid suddenly grow in among your farms, but if you want to plan a city with a little more natural look this is totally bizarre. Is there a CAM installation option to switch this behavour off? Either to use more "normal" Stage 7 farms if they exist or to ignore them completely?

2. One of the more useful mods is the functional landmarks one. Would it be possible to rework this making the job values and garbage/water usage stats assigned to these landmarks more CAMpatible? Since CAM is messing with the landmark usage anyway, by making some grow as farms and others grow as stage 15 lots, could this be built into the next version of CAM (perhaps as an option) just like the reworking of other inbuilt Maxis buildings? And if so, how about adding in barriers to plopping inappropriate landmarks before they would be available under CAM? Such as preventing the Empire State Building from being plopped before the stage that would normally develop, or a Planetarium before a certain IQ had been reached?

I'd also like to know if there are any plans to modify any of PEG's many wonderful lots to be more CAMpatible, and in particular fix the incompatability with his MTP-themed building replacements. I realise that might be best asked over at SimPeg, but this is the CAM forum and BarbyW seems highly active on both so might be aware of any such plans... Thanks for your replies.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 10, 2007, 01:24:20 PM
Welcome to the crazy world of SC4 and in particular to the sanity at SC4Devotion. ;D
To take your first question, you can delete any farms that you may not wish to grow in your city - from any stage or pack - providing you do not delete any fields. So you can delete the Great Pyramid stage 7 - as I have done :thumbsup:
I shall let ripplejet answer the second question.
As for Pegasus lots, you would do better to ask on his site.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 10, 2007, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: IanB on September 10, 2007, 12:54:44 PM
2. One of the more useful mods is the functional landmarks one. Would it be possible to rework this making the job values and garbage/water usage stats assigned to these landmarks more CAMpatible? Since CAM is messing with the landmark usage anyway, by making some grow as farms and others grow as stage 15 lots, could this be built into the next version of CAM (perhaps as an option) just like the reworking of other inbuilt Maxis buildings? And if so, how about adding in barriers to plopping inappropriate landmarks before they would be available under CAM? Such as preventing the Empire State Building from being plopped before the stage that would normally develop, or a Planetarium before a certain IQ had been reached?

The answer to all those questions is yes. ;)
With the "X" Tool it would actually be pretty easy to make all in-game landmarks functional with appropriate capacities and proper values for all invovled properties. Making reward scripts for them is equally simple, blocking the Empire State Building from being ploppable until stage 14 CO§§§ is enabled (which is dependent on the regional CO§§§ population) ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: the7train on September 10, 2007, 06:40:50 PM
I am new to CAM and have some general questions about CAM, specifically regarding the capacities and populations.  I have looked around and not found enough detail to satisfy my questions but please let me know if they exist somewhere with a link, thanks.  So here we go, some region stats:
City                      Residential     Commercial          Industrial
Upton City              267,650           305,628              51,180
Rochedale                 18,290                2070                       0
Limsburgh                 19,556               1229                        0
West Lawson            69,662              18,287             10,136
East Lawson              26,933                1851                       0
Humberton                25,836                1016                    447   
Total                        427,927           330,081               61,763
CAM Capacities          898,456           339,928               64,181

What exactly does this mean?  My guess is that when you query a building, you get 2552/3113 for current jobs or people living there.  So 2552 would be part of the 330,081 and 3113 part of 339,928 for example in the commercial regional totals/capacities.  Am I doing well so far?  If so, I then have building with zero jobs when I query with the job route tool, specifically the 2552/3113 building (CAMeLot Golden Bank Stg 11).  This also happens with Maxis buildings (Hurt Enterprise Headquarters 5644/7146 with zero people working there).  I queried both buildings, ran the sim for one full year, queried again, and still recorded the same zero people working there.  So whats the deal saying 2552 people work there then in reality no one goes there?  Let me know if you need me to clarify this.

To make things even more interesting, the residential demand is negative.  So the population is 427,927 and there are 391,844 jobs (com + ind) leaving 36,083 or 8.43% unemployed (children I'm guessing).  Yet the demand is negative for residential and ridiculously high for commercial as you can from my attached graph.  The taxes in my main city are at 9% for everything except 11 for Dirty Industry.  I guess one simple explanation is that the total residential population does not include kids and the unemployed, then it would make sense I suppose to have high demand for com and ind.  Then there is the whole capacity where only half of the res is satisfied and the com & ind are almost full, which doesn't really make sense to me.  Any explanations would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: the7train on September 10, 2007, 07:12:42 PM
I've also just found the census repository but have no idea what any of it means (i've attached my main city).  I've looked through RippleJet's thread on Sim Tropolis but doesn't really help.  Also, all lots a growing, none are plopable.  Any help appreciated thanks!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: IanB on September 10, 2007, 07:39:21 PM
Thanks for your replies. Integrating a better CAMpatible functional landmarks mod into CAM itself would be a neat extra. I'm sure many other improvements could be integrated - for instance, since many of them are museums or art centres they should have museum effects as well as jobs.

I have one other question, having realised just how much modding is going on for the network side of things: how in-step with all the brand new features of NAM (RHW/GLR) is CAM? From what I can see, CAM installs after NAM therefore anything that is not updated in CAM will have default NAM settings for capacity and speed. That would make using RHW worse than using ordinary roads unless CAM has the boosted settings for this...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: the7train on September 10, 2007, 07:48:16 PM
IanB: Page 5 of the CAM Manual has the revised traffic pathfinding.  Specifically, ANT (RHW) has capacity of 12,000 and speed of 110 km/hr (highways 120, roads 50, avenues 80).  It also compares to the NAM.  It says you can also choose not to install...hope this helps.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Nealos101 on September 10, 2007, 08:05:31 PM
the7train...

QuoteSo 2552 would be part of the 330,081 and 3113 part of 339,928 for example in the commercial regional totals/capacities. My guess is that when you query a building, you get 2552/3113 for current jobs or people living there.  So 2552 would be part of the 330,081 and 3113 part of 339,928 for example in the commercial regional totals/capacities.

2552 is what you have, 3113 is the maximum of what you can have.

Your total population for sims and jobs is based on the first number only, not the second.

QuoteIf so, I then have building with zero jobs when I query with the job route tool, specifically the 2552/3113 building (CAMeLot Golden Bank Stg 11).  This also happens with Maxis buildings (Hurt Enterprise Headquarters 5644/7146 with zero people working there).  I queried both buildings, ran the sim for one full year, queried again, and still recorded the same zero people working there.  So whats the deal saying 2552 people work there then in reality no one goes there?  Let me know if you need me to clarify this.

This is your commuters coming from another city in the reigon, and thier routes may not appear.  It usually happens with 'Eternal Commuters' in a city tile with lots of unemployed people.  Read below.

QuoteSo the population is 427,927 and there are 391,844 jobs (com + ind) leaving 36,083 or 8.43% unemployed (children I'm guessing).

The CAM manual mentions the issue of 'Eternal Commuters' with existing reigons, which means non-existent sims developed by the simulator to compensate a lack of developmental action within a neighboring reigon.  If you run your simulator for a humongous amount of time and demand is continuing to grow, the simulator fixes this and compensates.

Eventually demand t will shut down in another city, and if you do not catch up the problem will only get worse, it cannot be solved, but it'll just get worse.

It may be a case of going back into your cities and reworking the commuting and the zoning...

Or lowering your taxes so people flock to your cities...

QuoteTo make things even more interesting, the residential demand is negative.  So the population is 427,927 and there are 391,844 jobs (com + ind) leaving 36,083 or 8.43% unemployed (children I'm guessing).

This could have happened for two reasons; Eternal Commuters or your reigon stats got messed up.  Go into every city tile, run them for a while, save and exit, and do it for them all and see what happens.  If worse comes to worse you may need to start working on those developments.

I hit a stagnation point with residential on a far worse scale - The problem you have is the need for jobs, I need a collosal amount of jobs!

Hope that helped!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: redguy on September 11, 2007, 03:22:20 AM
Okay, I think I have a problem in my region. Check out my Census (would you kindly?):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg261.imageshack.us%2Fimg261%2F7748%2Fsc412iz1.th.jpg&hash=ef8981217e58698eb665a13f042463b01b161ef1) (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sc412iz1.jpg)

This picture is from my central city. It has almost all the cap relievers: a zoo, which means that the R$$$ cap should be more than 24.560 and a stock exchange which means that the CO$$$ cap should be more than 897 (lol).

My region is linked as follows:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg464.imageshack.us%2Fimg464%2F8651%2Fsc413pn4.th.jpg&hash=8d9b71f4262741f2a46bd0b75fa3b4e2f384a8a5) (http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sc413pn4.jpg)

Here is a table with who lives/works where:


NameResidentialCommercialIndustrial
Ryanville1.194.1481.209.412117.677
Tenenbaum City438.104-4.075
Suchong City--121.155
McDonagh Town--167.908
Wilkins Hole--177.369

Ryanville and Tenenbaum City are linked by subway, bus and highway. Towards the other 3 (industrial) cities I have highways and railroads. Those railroads are linked by my extensive public transit network in Ryanville and Tenenbaum City. I use the bus/subway tiles that go on top of the road.

So why is my CO$$$ so low? And does it look like I have that Eternal Commuters problem?

I just checked the CAM manual. I did link all cities together into one big region, afaik that is the only way to commute right? How else can you make one big region?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 04:45:56 AM
Quote from: the7train on September 10, 2007, 06:40:50 PM
What exactly does this mean?  My guess is that when you query a building, you get 2552/3113 for current jobs or people living there.  So 2552 would be part of the 330,081 and 3113 part of 339,928 for example in the commercial regional totals/capacities.  Am I doing well so far?  If so, I then have building with zero jobs when I query with the job route tool, specifically the 2552/3113 building (CAMeLot Golden Bank Stg 11).  This also happens with Maxis buildings (Hurt Enterprise Headquarters 5644/7146 with zero people working there).  I queried both buildings, ran the sim for one full year, queried again, and still recorded the same zero people working there.  So whats the deal saying 2552 people work there then in reality no one goes there?  Let me know if you need me to clarify this.

The numbers shown by your queries are always capacities, never actual population or workforce. In the example with 2552/3113 the latter number is the building's maximum capacity (as given in the property Capacity Satisfied). Due to desirability factors the actual capacity is reduced, in this case to 2552.

The actual number of people living or working in a building is not reported in any queries. The only way to estimate those numbers is through the route query. The number of people actually working in a building is reported by that. The number of people living in a residential building is roughly twice the number of people going to work from it (from the Census Repository Facility's query you can see how large the workforce is compared to the residential capacity).

It must be noted that a building can actually contain zero residents or zero workers. This is especially common for industrial buildings. And this has nothing with dilapidation to do. A building is dilapidated when, due to low desirability, the actual capacity is below 50%.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 05:03:42 AM
Quote from: the7train on September 10, 2007, 07:12:42 PM
I've also just found the census repository but have no idea what any of it means (i've attached my main city).  I've looked through RippleJet's thread on Sim Tropolis but doesn't really help.  Also, all lots a growing, none are plopable.  Any help appreciated thanks!

You get more help with each number in that query by hovering with your mouse above them. ;)

The reason your residential demand is negative can be found in the actual regional capacity (897,816), which currently is larger than the long-term projected demand (884,018). The projected demand is based on the number of jobs in your region.

The reason for the capacity being that high, can almost certainly be explained with commuters, just like Nealos explained. This particular city has in that respect a residential capacity of well above 300,000. I am not 100% sure how it is calculated on a regional level, but I might imagine the following principle for it:

The total workforce is 153,973 + 20,353 = 174,326 (including commuters).
The capacity in relation to the workforce is 285,895/153,973 = 1.86
Total seen capacity would in that case be 174,326 × 1.86 = 323,686.

Especially eternal commuters are bound to screw up the reported regional residential capacity (read the manual about them). The commuters are extremely annoying in SC4, since they never decrease in numbers. Thus, if you've managed to get them to such a high level, that the regional residential capacity hits the long-term projected demand, all residential development will come to a halt.

The only way for you to increase the residential demand is by adding more jobs. However, be sure to add them close enough to where the sims are living. Otherwise those new jobs might once again me taken by commuters from neighbouring cities, and further more screw up your supply/demand balance.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 05:27:47 AM
Quote from: redguy on September 11, 2007, 03:22:20 AM
So why is my CO$$$ so low? And does it look like I have that Eternal Commuters problem?

Your Census Repository Facility shows a huge demand for CO§§§. Thus, if they are not growing, you might simply not have enough desirability for them in your city. Check the dataview for CO§§§ desirability to see if that would tell you something. In order to increase CO§§§ desirability, increase the city's EQ level (should be high enough already since the demand is high), build plazas or landmarks, reduce pollution and increase traffic. Also make sure you have a good police coverage with a minimum of crimes. Most of these factors increase the land value, which must be high for CO§§§ to grow. One final way to increase their desirability is to reduce their taxation.

One good way to check if you have eternal commuters is to route query the border crossings that are located close to the corner between Ryanville, Suchong City and McDonagh Town.


Quote from: redguy on September 11, 2007, 03:22:20 AM
I just checked the CAM manual. I did link all cities together into one big region, afaik that is the only way to commute right? How else can you make one big region?

Yes, all cities need to be connected. Just don't build the crossings too close to corners where several cities meet.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: redguy on September 11, 2007, 07:33:00 AM
Okay, I checked some things:
So I guess I have to do some remodeling of my city centre &mmm

And indeed, I have commuters from Ryanville that commute over the border, but don't actually work there. The bus stream in McDonagh Town and Suchong City go back again towards Ryanville...

Last question, when is a crossing near the border? 50 tiles? 100?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 07:41:08 AM
Quote from: redguy on September 11, 2007, 07:33:00 AM
Last question, when is a crossing near the border? 50 tiles? 100?

That depends on how close to the crossing your jobs in that city are located.
When coming across the border, sims start looking for the closest work place. If that is within the city they just came to, all is OK. However, if the closest place is the border crossing to the third city, they will take that route and start commuting forever...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: redguy on September 11, 2007, 07:48:39 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 07:41:08 AM
That depends on how close to the crossing your jobs in that city are located.
When coming across the border, sims start looking for the closest work place. If that is within the city they just came to, all is OK. However, if the closest place is the border crossing to the third city, they will take that route and start commuting forever...
I demolished the border crossings, but I still have busses passing over the non-existent crossing ::).

I'll run if for a while, I've got to restructure my city centre anyway :P.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 07:54:10 AM
Quote from: redguy on September 11, 2007, 07:48:39 AM
I'll run if for a while, I've got to restructure my city centre anyway :P.

Once you've experienced the Eternal Commuters you will be prepared to take that malicious "feature" into account when laying out your regional transportation network! ;)

The problem is that the number of commuters will still be left and seen as residential capacity in neighbouring cities that really isn't there...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: redguy on September 11, 2007, 08:44:08 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 07:54:10 AM
Once you've experienced the Eternal Commuters you will be prepared to take that malicious "feature" into account when laying out your regional transportation network! ;)

The problem is that the number of commuters will still be left and seen as residential capacity in neighbouring cities that really isn't there...
It won't even go (slightly) away when I fulfill that demand with jobs?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 08:46:53 AM
Quote from: redguy on September 11, 2007, 08:44:08 AM
It won't even go (slightly) away when I fulfill that demand with jobs?

My experience is that it won't.
I've never seen the number of commuters go down as reported by the Census Repository Facility. :(
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: redguy on September 11, 2007, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 08:46:53 AM
My experience is that it won't.
I've never seen the number of commuters go down as reported by the Census Repository Facility. :(
I'll just have to deal with them, don't want to begin my region again... :)

I changed the lay-out of a part of my commercial district, the land value went up and the air pollution down. So far my CO$$$ is about 5 times as high as before (5000 yay).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: the7train on September 11, 2007, 03:22:42 PM
Thanks Nealos and RippleJet.  I actually did read about the eternal commuters in the manual which is why I tried to keep the network connections towards the middle of the cities...guess it wasn't good enough.  I suppose I'll have to zone more residential near the center of my big city, which is where most of the unoccupied commercial buildings are. 
QuoteYou get more help with each number in that query by hovering with your mouse above them. Wink
duh...so simple sorry I missed that
QuoteThis is your commuters coming from another city in the reigon, and thier routes may not appear.  It usually happens with 'Eternal Commuters' in a city tile with lots of unemployed people.  Read below.
So if we have two medium cities A in the northwest, B in the northeast, and a large city C south of them like so:
A | B
-----
   C
If commuters from A go to B, and C is closer than the jobs in B, the "invisible workers" will show up in C?  Basically, if workers cross two borders, then they don't show up in the route query of the third city (C in this case). 
Would workers go from one city to another to look for work if there are no jobs there?  So basically by making city B residential only, would it eliminate eternal commuters from A->B->C?

QuoteThe [eternal] commuters are extremely annoying in SC4, since they never decrease in numbers.
Never?  What if you bulldoze cities?  Or less drastically, disconnect neighbor connections?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: the7train on September 11, 2007, 03:22:42 PM
So basically by making city B residential only, would it eliminate eternal commuters from A->B->C?

Yes, that would work in theory. But you always have civic jobs in a residential city as well, so it will never be 100% proof.


Quote from: the7train on September 11, 2007, 03:22:42 PM
Never?  What if you bulldoze cities?  Or less drastically, disconnect neighbor connections?

Disconnecting the neighbour connections would remove the commuters from the route query, at least for the moment.
However, the added regional capacity that has been seen by the simulator throughout the years will still be there.
And it is not known in which cities the added regional capacity is seen, they are just added as numbers, nothing else.
Thus, not even bulldozing a city would remove the damage imposed by eternal commuters...

In fact, one of the things I've found out through testing; consider you're playing only a single city with no neighbours and no connections.
Even in that case will you still be able to get commuters coming from SimNation if you plop lots of offices but won't zone enough residentials.

Another reason not to play with ploppable buildings... :P

All in all, the neighbour connections are not even required to get commuters and added regional capacities... ???
Functional landmarks should only be built occasionally, and not more than one of them at a time (per month).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: the7train on September 11, 2007, 05:28:20 PM
wow thats interesting and disappointing you can't get rid of them  >:(  I don't use ploppables or landmarks, everything grows for me, so that wouldn't affect me.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on September 11, 2007, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 03:52:25 PM
Disconnecting the neighbour connections would remove the commuters from the route query, at least for the moment.
However, the added regional capacity that has been seen by the simulator throughout the years will still be there.
And it is not known in which cities the added regional capacity is seen, they are just added as numbers, nothing else.
Thus, not even bulldozing a city would remove the damage imposed by eternal commuters...

In fact, one of the things I've found out through testing; consider you're playing only a single city with no neighbours and no connections.
Even in that case will you still be able to get commuters coming from SimNation if you plop lots of offices but won't zone enough residentials.


Here's one I've been wondering about - what if you save your cities, re-render the region, and import the old cities into the new region? Will you be able to clear the slate for commuters?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 11, 2007, 11:28:13 PM
Quote from: snorrelli on September 11, 2007, 09:41:17 PM
Here's one I've been wondering about - what if you save your cities, re-render the region, and import the old cities into the new region? Will you be able to clear the slate for commuters?

I haven't gone that far in trying, Patrick.
But since the the regional capacity seen is saved in the saved game file (separately for each city), I doubt re-rendering the region would have any effect...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on September 12, 2007, 06:45:41 AM
I had the eternal commuter problem for a little while, sims went from city C to B to A then back to C using cars, trains and subways. However, once I built up up City C, 95% of those commuters took up jobs in city C, and the ones that were doing the full circle ended up taking jobs in city B or newly built City D and E, so in the end I did manage to get rid of them...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 12, 2007, 08:38:02 AM
It would be great and highly appreciated if someone could do some really thorough testing on this...
...by setting up four cities as the example in the CAM manual, run the cities consequtively and see how the commuters increase.

Then bulldoze the neighbour connections and see what happens... reporting each step taken...
...including route queries at the borders and the Census Repository Facility report at each step in the testing... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on September 15, 2007, 03:20:14 PM
I noticed a slight issue with a building today:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glidingeagle.com%2Fimages%2Fbuilding.jpg&hash=88c2094fb80a374ef4be986cd4da2496d9ba64a1) (http://www.glidingeagle.com/images/building.jpg)

http://www.glidingeagle.com/images/building.jpg its located there, dont have time to resize it - sorry.
No need to resize, I just added a small code saying the width should be 960, and linked to your original picture:

[url=http://www.glidingeagle.com/images/building.jpg][img width=960]http://www.glidingeagle.com/images/building.jpg[/img][/url]

/RippleJet


The Building appears like this with the three most close zoom levels. All other zooms it appears fine. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 15, 2007, 03:37:20 PM
That's a texture conflict with in-game textures, which is explained here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2299.0

However, since Superstar hasn't been batting for a very long time, that error is highly unlikely to be fixed.
I can only recommend to bulldoze that building and to remove the SC4Lot file from your plugins. &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on September 16, 2007, 01:53:14 PM
Is it possible to re IID the textures?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 16, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
Unfortunately it isn't, Diggis, as it would need doing on the original model.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gml_josea on September 18, 2007, 04:36:43 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I noticed the CAM queries seem to conflict with the Expanded UI Mod (Here) (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4243)).
When I installed the CAM and the starter packs none of the CAMelots would show the query window; I thought I missed some dependencies, but I figured out this mod would conflict, and indeed it was.
Check this out, maybe it should be added to the list of inCampatible mods =/
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 18, 2007, 05:04:55 PM
Equinox' RCI Query Upgrade replaces the in-game queries with his (having the same TGI address).
The CAMeLot queries are separate queries, with their own TGI addresses.

Buildings having Equinox' queries are not custom CAMeLots.
If you remove the RCI Query Upgrade from your plugins, you would notice that those buildings would have Maxis' own queries, but not the CAMeLot queries.

However, a number of Maxis buildings have been rearranged into higher stages, thus being CAMeLots.
These buildings have still got the in-game query, which is replaced by Equinox' query upgrade, if used.

If you have custom buildings growing, which you think should be CAMeLots, having the in-game query (or Equinox' query), you most probably have old stage 8 buildings growing in your city.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gml_josea on September 18, 2007, 05:28:28 PM
I tested again this and well, it wasn't that plugin causing the problem really, but I still don't know how this problem fixed all by itself =/
I guess it is fine now.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Orange Julius on September 27, 2007, 03:30:24 PM
I'm not to going to say CAM is a waste of time or anything, but what are some *true benefits* of the CAM? As in, what can you do with the CAM that you can't do with non-CAM? Don't take this wrongly or anything, I'm just curious.... :-[
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Serkanner on September 27, 2007, 03:40:19 PM
O.J.

The CAM makes it possible to have 7 additional growth stages. This means that you can "spread" your city in a more natural way before the real big guys start growing. Also ... these new growable stages together with the to be released PIM-X will balance out custom lots that are now using unbalanced stats presented by the Maxis PIM. In theory all custom content can be re-calculated by PIM-X and integrated into what is CAM now. The result will be a fully balanced simcity4 as Maxis has created it BUT with 7 additional growth stages.

If you only like to plop then CAM is not of interest to you.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 28, 2007, 09:57:09 PM
I'd love to see this building CAMmed:

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18694

Maybe if someone asks Andisart about it?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on September 28, 2007, 11:29:13 PM
Question:
    Will CAM block NDEX?.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 28, 2007, 11:59:55 PM
Answer: No. I am actually not sure exactly what you mean, BB. If you mean will CAM stop any NDEX from growing then the answer is no although if you only have the original lots from them then the buildings may grow too soon in a city's development. If you only keep the models and use the CAMified lots then all is well. RJ has posted some base lots in the NDEX Forum for DA's new works. These need decorating only and are ready to use apart from that.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on September 29, 2007, 01:14:48 AM
Thanx Goddess.
   I never been a fan of NDEX but since the rebirth that have kicking out some nice lots and I'm thinking of giving them a shot.Thanx again. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Indisguise on September 29, 2007, 05:11:56 AM
Actually BB the NDEX buildings appear more often and more variaty in the CAM, as almost all were stage 8 buildings, the game had a tendancy to grow the ones with the smaller stats, before the bigger ones, this would block the higher stat buildings, as a same stage building of the same wealth type can't out grow an already grown building or greatly diminish their ability to show up in a city.

Now whith the buildings spread across 7 higher stages, with proper stage setting and stats from the PIM-X, you actually get more of them, and more differnnt ones as well.  Just have to maybe adjust your style of playing to accomidate traffic and pathways of the sims, as the CAM can cause traffic tie ups (higher stats, more traffic you have to deal with) I suggest x2  transit capasity NAM setting (speed is optional as per your playing style tastes) when you start getting into the new stages, to be able to handle all the traffic.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 29, 2007, 07:31:20 AM
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 28, 2007, 09:57:09 PMI'd love to see this building CAMmed:

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18694

Maybe if someone asks Andisart about it?

I've CAMified both lots, giving one stage 9 CO§§§ and one stage 10 CO§§.
I'm enclosing them to this post, ready for anybody (Shadow Assassin?) to relot and upload.
The lots included are exactly as AndiSart made them (with only Maxis props and textures).

As a dependency you will need the model file, and only the model file, from STEX:
AndisArt_Lighthouse_Tower.dat (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18694)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on September 29, 2007, 07:41:45 AM
Could someone possibly start a list of buildings that are wanted to be CAMified? If that is possible then it would be great, and as long as the original lotters permission is gained somehow, either before or after it is added to the list.

Just a suggestion, sorry about its illegibility

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 29, 2007, 07:49:36 AM
Quote from: star.torturer on September 29, 2007, 07:41:45 AM
Could someone possibly start a list of buildings that are wanted to be CAMified? If that is possible then it would be great, and as long as the original lotters permission is gained somehow, either before or after it is added to the list.

Just a suggestion, sorry about its illegibility

It is fully legal to relot somebody else's buildings, as long as you refer to the original upload for the bat model. :thumbsup:
And there is no problem requesting CAMeLots in this thread. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on September 29, 2007, 07:59:55 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on September 29, 2007, 07:49:36 AM
And there is no problem requesting CAMeLots in this thread. :)

In that case, I request this building (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18713) by SimRabbit:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stexserver.com%2Flots%2Fsimrabbit%2Fsimrabbit_ndex%2520sr%2520west%2520side%2520residence%2Fday%252Ejpg&hash=521a4dfb94b2490fd81c620e2f441cb4aae8385b) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stexserver.com%2Flots%2Fsimrabbit%2Fsimrabbit_ndex%2520sr%2520west%2520side%2520residence%2Fnight%252Ejpg&hash=9264893145d1896a18ef8cecc9da92a066801485)

currently a stage 6...

and this building (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18692) by SimFox:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stexserver.com%2Flots%2Fsimfox%2Fsimfox_moscow%2520red%2FSH%255FSTEX1n%252Ejpg&hash=b06c144329d82eb7ee0506885b1e0ed6e21decf2) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stexserver.com%2Flots%2Fsimfox%2Fsimfox_moscow%2520red%2FSH%255FStex2%252Ejpg&hash=d649b91f6f05c6e60208159fb77dcbb6f4997c4e)

currently a stage 7...


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on September 29, 2007, 08:02:29 AM
I was actualy wondering about a showcase thread for converted lots...  &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 29, 2007, 08:05:41 AM
The Moscow Red building is waiting a Readme from SimFox then it will be uploaded to the LEX. We then have a variety of relots ready to go.
I will make a basic lot for SR's building ans attach it here for relotting as RJ has done with the others above.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on September 29, 2007, 08:10:12 AM
Thanks! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on September 29, 2007, 08:48:46 AM
I was just wondering, if I used that SC4LotInforGenerator on a plugins folder of just the CAM will it generate pictures of all the buildings in the CAM?

I was going to do it and edit the table structure from here (http://http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0) to allow someone to make pictures for each of the lots showcased there, plus any new lots created.

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 29, 2007, 09:12:06 AM
star.torturer: SC4LIG should do what you want and you can then post it as you suggest.
Attached is one R§§ 2x2 stage 9 basic lot with just the building and Maxis base textures on for someone to lot. You will need the model only from NDEX SR West Side Residence (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=18713) Make sure you place this lot into the root of plugins and when you have finished Save not Save As. The building descriptor is embedded into the lot file and modded ready to use providing you do as instructed with the Save.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Goret on September 29, 2007, 08:54:42 PM
Quote from: star.torturer on September 29, 2007, 07:41:45 AMCould someone possibly start a list of buildings that are wanted to be CAMified? If that is possible then it would be great, and as long as the original lotters permission is gained somehow, either before or after it is added to the list.

Just a suggestion, sorry about its illegibility

Among the highrises I'd personally like to see in:
- Washington Tower, by PDA: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4139 (should be a CO$$$ only)
- One International Trade Center, by PDA: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4139 (a CO$$$; possibly a R$$$ considering the relatively low height of the floors - but ain't that too high for usual R$$$ ?)
- Trump International Hotel, by PDA: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3994 (this one could be made a CS$$$ or a R$$$)
- 2 IFC, by paulvmonfort:  http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15809 (I think this is already in as PVM2, but not sure - as I haven't SC4 installed at the moment - and I hope, the latest version, not the V1) and 1 IFC: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15770 (both should stay CO$$$)
- of course, (nearly) everything NDEX made
- as well as what the HK BAT Team made (great highrises, and a lot of residential stuff)
- The Summit, by jtportland http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4574 (I'd prefer it as CO$$, rahter than CO$$$)
- SFBT's plattenbauten, as R$: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16022 , http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15792 , http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17594 (marked as R$$ in the description, but I'd prefer them as R$); midrise: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17403 ; LOT example for a complex: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=16043
- some other ugly R$: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15600
- a building from Paris XIIIème: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13074 (as R$, even though Olympiades isn't really cheap)
- Bransfield House: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2812 , Newbury Apartments:  http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4349 and and Crumby Arms, by 6459978: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15836 (Stephen Drive: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12346 might not need a CAMifying)
- Gatoa Hi: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3809 and Big6: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3730 by Superstar (both as R$, as they had been relotted)
- Center Apartments: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11265 by jtportland (I'd prefer them as R$)

Thanks a lot in advance if these BATs get CAMified.


There's certainly a lot more BATs that'd deserve to be in CAM... might try to list them later. Having more content in CAM would allow to more easily remove some of the buildings that are in many categories (and I don't really get how the Sidfeldt Tower can look R$$$-ish; IMHO it's really a CO$$ stuff ;) ).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: patch_110 on October 03, 2007, 08:45:42 AM
Hi ive noticed a small problem with this building in that theres no querie when i click on it. anyone else have this problem or is it just me.
Patch
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on October 03, 2007, 08:56:00 AM
If it is a CAMeLOT and there is no Query when you click it, then you need the CAM Essentials, which contain the Queries for CAMeLOTS. -> Click! (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=929)

Are you sure this is a CAMeLOT though?  &mmm

Yes, it is a CAMeLOT, by Simgoober.
If the CAM Essentials doesn't solve it, try the SG Extras -> Click! (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1090) It has been updated with missing queries. It might be this one, if it is not the first. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: patch_110 on October 03, 2007, 09:12:18 AM
Thanks for the quick responce once again
Cheers Patch
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on October 03, 2007, 09:13:36 AM
No problem! I hope it is sorted out now.  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 08, 2007, 01:01:05 PM
I tried to find the correct area to place this but my nerves are fried.
   Ever since installing CAM the game has been going south to desktop.So will CAM lots ever become useable to folks who don't use or unable to use CAM?.
   I did check the MOD list to see if there was conflict but nothing.I really had to flush CAM and lose those awesome lots but what choice do I have.Thanx for the help.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 08, 2007, 01:06:30 PM
BB, all the CAMeLots have been made from BATs that are available for non CAM users. All the NDEX etc are still on the STEX for up to stage 8.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 08, 2007, 01:29:40 PM
Thanx Goddess,
   But I didn't notice there are lots on LEX that state will not grow without CAM.So I guess it's those lots I'm asking about.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 08, 2007, 01:42:47 PM
I think there are just a few of those and that is up to the creator of them not the creator of CAM. bixel generally posts non CAM versions at ST and simfox did too.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 08, 2007, 02:11:12 PM
Thanx again Goddess.
   I'm going to flush my plugins to find the problem and see if CAM is or isn't the problem.Thanx again
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 08, 2007, 02:35:10 PM
I'll bet you it isn't CAM that is the problem. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 08, 2007, 02:37:27 PM
So where does 1 go if CAM isn't the problem?.
   Can you please point me in the right direction.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Indisguise on October 08, 2007, 02:58:07 PM
which lots are you using BB...all CAM lot above 9 for RES and COM and all stage 4 and above for IND... those you will need the CAM mod or the game won't reconize the new higher stages.


any lot made with the PIM-X that lower than that (origial stages) will grow fine without.

the only real problem you would run into with using older lots, would be the stats that are set to them. (this is true with or without  the CAM, you have to scan the lots with the SC4Tool program to be sure).
As some lots have wacky stats and could upset the simulator causing demand issues (once again, this is true if your using or not using the CAM).

are there any partiuclar lots you having trobles with BB ?

for mod conflicts double check the readme or let us know which ones you are using, as some may conflict with the NAM and CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 08, 2007, 03:25:40 PM
Here is the catch.
   Is it or isn't it CAM?.Well seeing this is the last MOD I installed then maybe but no postive.
The issue is when I Zoom out it's all over so I'm lost and taking shots in the dark.I really appreciate the help.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on October 08, 2007, 10:54:14 PM
Actually, I had this problem at first too, until I stumbled upon the answer in another thread here. The fix for me was simply using Software Rendering instead of hardware.
I think that all of the new supertowers popping up all over the place was just too much for my laptop's video card, but not for the dualcore procs. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 09, 2007, 04:37:57 AM
Thanx xxdita.
    But was is Software Rendering and what does it do?.Thanx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on October 09, 2007, 05:27:37 AM
Software rendering takes the load off your graphics card and puts it onto your processor. Not advisable unless you have both a crappy graphics card and a powerful CPU.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 09, 2007, 05:52:37 AM
Thanx folks.
   I tried the software setting and it made my cities look like crap.So it looks like I just gotta deal with getting flip back to desktop.
    Thanx again for all the help. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on October 09, 2007, 05:58:07 AM
I don't think it has anything to do with your graphics rendered (hardware or software), or even the CAM for that matter.
I suggest that you take out ALL custom content, fire up SC4 and see what happens. If the problem doesn't lie there, add the CAM and all the necessary dependencies and then see what happens. Take it step by step and try to identify the problem, but start with what you think is the culprit, the CAM - even though I agree with Barby that it would and could not be it.

Anyway, that's the only way I see you getting to the bottom of this.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on October 09, 2007, 06:39:43 AM
Thanx M4346.
  Yup I did the empty folder test and it appeared all was fine.So I was at cross road to either slowly add stuff back into my plugins folder praying I found the problem or just deal with it.
  Well seeing it was going to take a very long time to reload the plugins folder the desktop was looking kinda nice.So I thank all of you who tried to help but this is just another wonderful part of life we gotta deal with. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sobol on October 10, 2007, 03:51:52 PM
Haven't playd SC all summer...  but now that the CAM has been out for a while, I am curious...


How do I integrate the CAM with my game?  (I have the latest NAM and airport pack).  I have a bunch of downloaded content from here and simtrop.  I can start some new regions, but what happens to my older buildings???


I appreciate the help.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 10, 2007, 04:15:27 PM
First of all, read the sections in the manual about Using Existing Regions with the CAM (pages 6-7).

If you are going to start a new region, I would recommend cutting down on your existing stage 8 residential and commercial buildings, and replace them with CAMpatible buildings and CAMeLots from the LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sobol on October 10, 2007, 07:30:26 PM
Awesome, where is the manual?  just point me in the right direction.... 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 10, 2007, 10:43:52 PM
It's included with the CAM, can be found under BSC -> Colossus Addon Mod (in the startup menu), or here: CAM - Welcome and Manual (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sobol on October 11, 2007, 07:17:28 AM
Kool, thanks.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on October 12, 2007, 08:39:41 AM
So I've been using CAM. I started a new region and began growing cities. My regional population is now about 400,000. However my commercial population is greater than my residential population. I have cities where I have more jobs than people. Is anybody else getting this?? Maybe I am missing a dependency or something.  %wrd
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 12, 2007, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: bixel on October 12, 2007, 08:39:41 AM
So I've been using CAM. I started a new region and began growing cities. My regional population is now about 400,000. However my commercial population is greater than my residential population. I have cities where I have more jobs than people. Is anybody else getting this??

It is actually possible to have a job capacity that exceeds the population.
The number of actual workers is always smaller than the capacity.

The demand for more jobs should be coming down though, unless you have commuters coming in from SimNation... &Thk/(

With a total population of 400,000, your workforce is in the region of just 200,000 though...
It would be interesting to see the Census Repository Report for your cities...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bixel on October 12, 2007, 10:13:39 PM
funny you mention the Census Repository Report, I just downloaded. I will post a screenie.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gumbie on November 04, 2007, 03:56:20 PM
I'm not getting a query on the paloma tower. I have both of the above files.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on November 04, 2007, 03:58:17 PM
I think you might need the RNP Essentials -> Click! (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=978)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gumbie on November 04, 2007, 04:08:04 PM
That was awesomely fast and awesomely helpful.  Thank you.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on November 04, 2007, 04:27:21 PM
No problem!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 12, 2007, 07:21:37 AM
CAM 1.1 entering Beta Stage

The first beta version, CAM 1.0.1 is now being tested. :thumbsup:
This time we will keep most of the development discussion here in the public thread, so that everybody will be able to comment.

Below is a list of features added so far and now being tested:




Maximum I-HT demand range has been increased from 12,000 to 24,000
Following a request by Mister Giggles (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2878.0), this is required in order to be able to grow Somy's tall, stage 10, high-tech industrials.

Somy 1 and Somy 2 are actually far too big to fit into the current I-HT stages.
The density of those two lots is well over 500, and stage 10 I-HT only require 135...
Maybe I-HT should be extended up to stage 15 after all... and maybe be added as an option for those who want to be able to grow I-HT skyscrapers... suggestions?




Amount of Capacity that can be under construction at any one time increased from 20,480 to 24,576
This property is included in the Building Development Simulator.

This property might be one reason for the Empire State Building, with a capacity of 19,565 CO§§§, being so hard to get growing.
In order not to increase the speed of development too much, I do not want to increase the property more than this.




Neutral Tax vs. Population reduced in order to make it more difficult to make money
This property is included in the Demand Simulator.

There have been several complaints that it's too easy to make money with CAM, once the city has become large enough.
The graph below shows how this property has been changed for this beta release.

It gives the maximum tax level (depending on city population) that you can set without having a negative effect on your demand.
The bigger your city becomes, the more you will need to reduce your taxes. Otherwise you will see a drop in demand.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg103.imageshack.us%2Fimg103%2F2120%2Fneutraltaxvspopulationfa6.jpg&hash=b09a297ab32dffad686e7226aa5b477bc61fb80c)




Maximum Slope of Zoning increased from 16/16/16 to 16/20/24 ($/$$/$$$)
This property is included in the Zone Manager Simulator.

This idea is something I've been playing with for quite some time.
Today you cannot zone anything if a tile is sloped more than 16 m from the highest to lowest point.
With the changes above, you can zone medium density on slopes up to 20 m and high density on slopes up to 24 m.

This might be extended into more options and lifted out of CAM and made into its own mod if there's interest in it.




Stage 15 R§§§
Finally, there is one new CAMeLot added, based on an in-game building,
the Empire State Building as a stage 15 R§§§ with a capacity of 15,902.

I don't suppose anybody has been wanting this... $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mister Giggles on November 12, 2007, 10:02:49 AM
Excellent...

<Taps fingers together>

From the onset, it looks to elliminate the biggest 'bug' with the original release, while filling in a minor gap AND elliminating all that extra money I end up earning that does no good (If you can't use it, why have it, eh?).

As for the optionalality (New word!) suggestion concerning Somy 1 and Somy 2...personally, it doesn't matter to me. Why people wouldn't want their High Tech skycrapering (Another new word!) as well as their city is beyond me, but to each his own. As for more High Tech stages...yes, I think that'd be good, if you can round up enough buildings to make 15 stages full of goodness.

Other than that...two questions.

1: Can you give a timeline for release?

2: Can I beta test? ^_^

Please and thank you for your response.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on November 12, 2007, 10:09:21 AM
OK, I didn't had as much time as I thougth, but still did played sometime.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frayden.zftp.com%2Fsc4%2Fcamtest1.jpg&hash=7303df926e13cf6bf9f4d0d8f622434b9c024391)
1 - I started with a small town, mostly low/medium density.
2 - At the same time, I start a Industrial area, again, mixed up, medium and high density (taxes - 5% for low wealth/all RCI types; 7% for medium wealth/all RCI types and 9% for high wealth/all RCI types. In the begining, it was a bit difficult for industry to grow, a couple of ID lots. When population reach 5000, then I could see the some real growth.
3 - When i had areas 1 and 2 filled up, I started this big residential/commercial area connecting to the Industrial area on the north. This areas where zoned, mostly hogh density.

Here is the 2 pictures with some census.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frayden.zftp.com%2Fsc4%2Fcamtest2.jpg&hash=56be268a097210634d72e5e5c11e06f9478f79f2)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frayden.zftp.com%2Fsc4%2Fcamtest3.jpg&hash=13434d58dbd396bb989283e8f36c745f5d261d24)

So far, it's the only city on my region being developed. I'll post some more info later on.

PS: That 14 stage 10 Commercial CAM lots, must be one buggy lot somewhere on my plugins that I still couldn't track it. It is still too soon for any stage 10 lot, specially when not even a stage 9 grew ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 12, 2007, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: Rayden on November 12, 2007, 10:09:21 AM
PS: That 14 stage 10 Commercial CAM lots, must be one buggy lot somewhere on my plugins that I still couldn't track it. It is still too soon for any stage 10 lot, specially when not even a stage 9 grew ;)

Indeed, with a regional commercial capacity of 7,021, it's got to be a stage 6 or lower CS§§ building that's got the Occupant Group 0xB5C00AB2, but not the Occupant Group 0xB5C00AB0, since it isn't summing up to the right.

It would be great if you could find out which lot/building it is! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on November 12, 2007, 01:28:18 PM
I for one would like to see the higher IHT stages as an optional extra as I never saw the use of those unrealistic towering 'high-tech' industries. Maybe in a world far from now, but not in the one I live in and especially not on the continent I reside. :P

Apart from all that, I'll be able to test this come Friday as I finish with my exams on Thursday.  ;D I will get back to you then, and thanks for the effort and revision Tage.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on November 12, 2007, 03:21:44 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on November 12, 2007, 12:49:44 PM
Indeed, with a regional commercial capacity of 7,021, it's got to be a stage 6 or lower CS§§ building that's got the Occupant Group 0xB5C00AB2, but not the Occupant Group 0xB5C00AB0, since it isn't summing up to the right.

It would be great if you could find out which lot/building it is! :)

Any clues to how to track the bugger? &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: D66 on November 12, 2007, 04:14:04 PM
Not sure if this would work for the CAM but take out 1/2 of your plugins, check to see if you still have the bugged lot.  If you do, you know it's in that half..if not..it's the other half.  Keep halving it till you narrow it down to just a few lots to go through. This method works for normal play so hopefully it does for CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on November 12, 2007, 05:41:52 PM
RippleJet, I would also be glad to beta test, if you need guinea pigs. I'm playing between 1 and 2 hours a day right now.
I for one would want the additional Industry stages, hopefully not limited to IHT. The construction cap tweak should be enough of a boost to keep everything growing properly. Taxes don't bother me, if I get stuck there's always CTRL X.  :D
I'm thinking the slopes should probably be a seperate thing entirely. I think it would be helpful to even the non-Cammers out there.
And YAY!!! A stage 15 R$$$. Empire's a very good choice. Hopefully there will be more to follow soon.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mister Giggles on November 12, 2007, 07:46:16 PM
M4346: Skyscraper High-Tech allows you to stuff more High-Tech overall into a city, which is extremely helpful for increasing city size. Of course, this only means something to you if you enjoy pumping the numbers so high they lose all meaning...which I do.

With said increase to High-Tech, I plan on making myself a city so large people are stupified just looking at the numbers.

Yes...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on November 12, 2007, 10:46:44 PM
Yeah, well, to me a city is more than just numbers. It's a plethora of things, ranging from architectural styles to individual identities as expressed in, say, neighbourhoods.

I just don't play to get those towering metropolises, I find no satisfaction in that. And accordingly the CAM extends my game and adds to its realism.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BigSlark on November 13, 2007, 06:05:46 AM
Last night I played with CAM 1.0.1 for a good hour in a city of 450,000 residents. When it first loaded, I immediately dropped R$$ and R$$$ taxes from 5% to 3%, I-M and I-HT taxes from 7% to 4%, and CS$$$, CO$$, CO$$$ taxes down to 3%. I had MASSIVE abandonment within the R$$ portion of the city, so I dropped the R$$ down to 2.5% and demand rebounded a bit. A few I-HT's were abandoning, so I had to drop taxes down to 2.5% for them in order to keep demand in the positive.

I noticed the increased development cap, I had more CO$$$ towers growing at once than I did before.

This city has an extensive GLR and bus system, no subways, BSC-only landmarks/rewards, and a high education level. The current monthly expenses are $75000 and income before CAM 1.0.1 was $125000 a month, now its $95000 a month.

While I don't see a problem for new cities with the tax change, I foresee players who have spent an inordinate amount of time on developing a massive city be very unhappy when they don't crank down the tax rates before un-pausing the game.

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jplumbley on November 13, 2007, 06:39:23 AM
It sounds to me either, there should be more funding used up or the building values are set too high.  $20,000 is a big monthly profit...  Ripplejet, do you think there is a way to better use schools and hospitals  ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 13, 2007, 07:01:44 AM
Based on Kevin's report it seems like the neutral tax rate was dropped too much...
On the other hand your tax rate is well below what it should be to cause abandonment...


Quote from: jplumbley on November 13, 2007, 06:39:23 AM
It sounds to me either, there should be more funding used up or the building values are set too high.  $20,000 is a big monthly profit...

That is something we did anticipate when extrapolating the building values from stage 8 upwards.
We did make the extrapolation depending on the square root of the capacity, but it still seems we are overshooting.

To change the building values at this stage is not feasible. All CAMeLots would be affected.
Instead CAM 1.0.2 will be tweaking the following properties in the Budget Tuning Parameters Simulator:

Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_R$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_R$$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_R$$$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_Cs$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_Cs$$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_Cs$$$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_Co$$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_Co$$$
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_IResource
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_IDirty
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_IManufacturing
Budget: TaxRateOccWeight_IHighTech

They are all set at 1.0 for Rush Hour. Reducing any of them to e.g. 0.5 would halve the tax income from that RCI type.
Is there any particular RCI type that contributes too much to the tax income?
I assume R§§§, CO§§§ and I-HT could be reduced more than the others, since these come into play later than the low-wealth types.


We also have the property that sets the difficulty between easy/medium/hard difficulty types:

Budget: Difficulty Tax Multiplier = 1.2, 1.1, 1.0

That property increases tax income by 20% for easy difficulty and by 10% for medium difficulty.
Nothing stops us from e.g. changing it to:

Budget: Difficulty Tax Multiplier = 1.0, 0.8, 0.6


I would like all CAMsters to report which difficulty they are playing on as well. :thumbsup:
And I would like to see your budget panels (for different city sizes) posted here! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on November 13, 2007, 07:03:52 AM
You sound like a drill sergeant. :P

Sir, yes sir! *salut!*  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 13, 2007, 07:34:48 AM
Quote from: M4346 on November 13, 2007, 07:03:52 AM
You sound like a drill sergeant. :P

Nah... mind you I come from Åland, a demilitarized zone in the Baltic! ::)

I only want you to tell me what you want and I'll see what I can do :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on November 13, 2007, 07:44:36 AM
Germany was supposedly demilitarised prior to WWII and look what happened there! :P But, I was just teasing you as usual Tage.  ;D

I know you have only our best interests at heart.  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mister Giggles on November 15, 2007, 06:14:13 PM
Updates?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rickmastfan67 on November 15, 2007, 06:38:41 PM
Quote from: Mister Giggles on November 15, 2007, 06:14:13 PM
Updates?

Um, the last update was just posted 2 days ago.  Chill.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mister Giggles on November 15, 2007, 07:06:21 PM
Chill?

I do believe I asked a simple question, one I am allowed to ask as my original questions of several days ago were utterly ignored.

Of course, if there is a RULE that states I can't ask questions, feel free to point me to it.

Until then, sod off.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on November 15, 2007, 08:22:43 PM
I just read up through the thread and discovered your questions.

1. There is no timeline that I know of.
2. I can't answer the second one. 
3. There are no updates. RippleJet (last I knew) is on a ski vacation. The Camsters are going about their business whatever that is. Could be personal business - could be CAM testing. I do know that the CAM thread in the private BSC forums has been silent for the past couple of days. 
4. There are things going on though. Wougaine and RippleJet are working hard on the XTool. Many of us are using it and making our reports. Daeley has everyone captivated with his menu system.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dedgren on November 15, 2007, 09:10:34 PM
Thank you, Jim (jmyers2043) for answering questions, which we always welcome here.  Now let me deal with the admin end...

Just so everyone is clear about where else we stand on the issues raised by Mister Giggles' post- he will have a while free from the distraction of SC4D to find some soap for that mouth- friends don't tell friends to "sod off."


David
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 16, 2007, 08:52:14 AM
Thank you Jim and David for being here while I'm having fun on my slope-friendly skis! ;D

For those who wonder, I haven't set any timeline. $%Grinno$%
I cannot and have not given any expire date for the CAMsters' testing.
I will await their report and make adjustments to the simulators based on them.
As long as the CAMsters and I are not satisfied with the testing, further beta versions will be issued and start a new round of testing.

With CAM 1.0 we had 8 beta versions, and testing went on for half a year.
Despite that Mister Giggles (and others) have found issues they call flaws.
I will not rush the testing of CAM 1.1.

For those who have expressed their wish to beta test...
At the moment we have enough CAMsters and we haven't asked for further beta testers.
If we need more CAMsters in the near future, we will ask for your assistance. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: A200 on November 16, 2007, 07:48:58 PM
I love the CAM, my main CAM skyscraper city has around 18 Taipei 101's in it  :o in one area there are 5 huddled in a group!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 16, 2007, 11:34:14 PM
Quote from: A200 on November 16, 2007, 07:48:58 PM
I love the CAM, my main CAM skyscraper city has around 18 Taipei 101's in it  :o in one area there are 5 huddled in a group!

WOW

Sounds like it's at least the size like the one MAS71 was building, with 7 WTC towers next to each other! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: A200 on November 17, 2007, 03:00:28 PM
Yeah and now heaps of WTC's are popping up too! :)

I quite like the city, except the train network is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay "over capacity" because the stupid sims hop off at each station then get straight back on... grrrrrr!!! &mmm

But we have about 1.9million residential people living in it, with around 1.5 or 1.6million commercial (cant remember exact) and about 200,000 High tech (which we are gradually phasing out to build more residential and commercial)

I might show pics later if thats ok?

EDIT:

Pictures are here:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1915.msg91570#msg91570
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on November 26, 2007, 10:00:43 PM
EDIT: FOUND THIS IS KNOWN? At least in a similar form... anyways it is an inconsistency within the same cleanitol file check/ download.. just for reference... take action if appropriate, else ignor it. If I understand the answer, I shouild just ignor this for now?

Dunno if this is the right forum or not.. if not move it. Maybe it goes in the 2nd or 5th forum?

When I use this cleanitol file (obtained in the last 2 days from LEX)
..\CAM\Essentials\CleanitolCAMModels\RemoveListCAMModels.txt

to test my dl's it tells me the following:
Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0xb0000.SC4Model not found
jes_HudsonGlass3-0x5ad0e817_0x12774cc5_0x30000.SC4Model not found

But I used the EXACT LINKS in the cleanitol file.. instead of the above links, the file I dl'd contained these:

Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x1305ef0d_0x30000.SC4Model
jes_HudsonGlass-0x5ad0e817_0xd2f86f1e_0x30000.SC4Model

Either the cleanitol links are wrong, or the file search in the cleanitol file is wrong.. (or these lots are interchangeablle?)

Which files are correct and if I have the wrong files, what is the link to the correct files.. Thx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wouanagaine on November 27, 2007, 12:00:24 AM
Thx for the info, SC4Boy. I think it is the right place.
I Hope Barbyw or Ripplejet see this to give you the proper answer
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 27, 2007, 12:12:48 AM
Quote from: SC4BOY on November 26, 2007, 10:00:43 PM
EDIT: FOUND THIS IS KNOWN?

It's pretty easy to search SC4Devotion for any earlier reports regarding specific items. :thumbsup:

Just go to the front page (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php) and enter your search in the search box.
In your case, you could have searched for a string contained in those filenames, e.g. 102a45d9:

     (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F5743%2Fsc4dsearchbz7.jpg&hash=821d2831ff2bf1638692cb5627dfaa3b33cfdecf)

Typos are not always corrected, especially since the links to the downloads in these cases were correct.
Most users are able to figure out for themselves that the same model is referred to in both cases:
    Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0xb0000.SC4Model
    Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x1305ef0d_0x30000.SC4Model
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on December 02, 2007, 12:20:10 AM
If people can still request CAMified re-lots... desimciti has released several NYC buildings at ST (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?page=1&Keyword=desimciti&view=all) that would be nice to have. The Waldorf Astoria is particularly nice...

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 05, 2007, 07:28:53 AM
Quote from: snorrelli on December 02, 2007, 12:20:10 AM
The Waldorf Astoria is particularly nice...

Unfortunately the Waldorff Astoria has rendering errors and would need to be re-rendered first.
The errors are in the FSH files, not in the S3D files, so that is nothing i can correct... $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RJN on December 06, 2007, 01:35:36 PM
I have read much about CAM , but I still have a Question , It's make the game easier? because if it makes the game easier , the game loses realism.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 06, 2007, 01:42:51 PM
Quote from: RJN on December 06, 2007, 01:35:36 PM
I have read much about CAM , but I still have a Question , It's make the game easier? because if it makes the game easier , the game loses realism.

When starting a new region, the difficulty is on the same level as without the CAM.
In a way it is actually a bit more challenging, since you will have to let your cities sprawl out before getting highrises, which will earn you more money.

When you start getting buildings above stage 8 it is currently somewhat too easy to make money, yes.
That is being looked upon and will change with version 1.1. ;)

Till that version becomes public, I recommend playing on the hardest difficulty and lowering your taxes if you're making too much money. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on December 06, 2007, 01:57:47 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on June 20, 2007, 10:51:39 AM
BSC has currently nearly 200 lots in preparation for the forthcoming CAM....
.. deleted stuff ...
Have fun collecting as the lots will not be long to appear. This list will also be available as a Cleanitol file to check that you have the required models and also to make sure you do not have duplicates in plugins.

Hmm.. In compiling CAM "stuff" I came across this problem:
The following list CAM ONeil Condos Cleanitol.txt packed in this file: ONeil CAM Condos.zip when run produces the following:

MISSING : Oneil's Dakota Park Place [Model] has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12726
MISSING : Oneil's Atlantic Plaza [Model] has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11579
MISSING : Oneil's Bosworth Tower Model has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11275
MISSING : ss(2)-0x5ad0e817_0xcd4d6e21_0x80000.SC4Model has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=2928

Those files have been downloaded and are present in my plugins directory (at least the models that came from those download links). I don't know if this is one of those "they are all the same" deals or not. I note that your original post is pretty old.. but a search finds no other mention of the problem that I can find. Its especially odd since it FINDS the following lots for removal: :)


**************************************************
                    R E P O R T
**************************************************
NDEX - The Blue Tower - Landmark (4x5)_906ff332.SC4Lot (NDEX - The Blue Tower - Landmark (4x5)_906ff332.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX The Blue Tower
NDEX - The Blue Tower - R3 (4x5)_906febe6.SC4Lot (NDEX - The Blue Tower - R3 (4x5)_906febe6.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX The Blue Tower
NDEX - Angels Creek - Landmark (4x4)_50a1eb74.SC4Lot (NDEX - Angels Creek - Landmark (4x4)_50a1eb74.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Angels Creek
NDEX - Dakota Park Place - Growable R3 (3x3)_8fb85abd.SC4Lot (NDEX - Dakota Park Place - Growable R3 (3x3)_8fb85abd.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Dakota Park Place
NDEX - Dakota Park Place - Ploppable CS3 (3x3)_6fb85a4e.SC4Lot (NDEX - Dakota Park Place - Ploppable CS3 (3x3)_6fb85a4e.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Dakota Park Place
NDEX - Angels Creek - Growable R$$ (4x4)_50a1ed70.SC4Lot (NDEX - Angels Creek - Growable R$$ (4x4)_50a1ed70.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Angels Creek\R$$
NDEX - Angels Creek - Growable R$$$ (4x4)_50a1ed70.SC4Lot (NDEX - Angels Creek - Growable R$$$ (4x4)_50a1ed70.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Angels Creek\R$$$
NDEX - Bosworth Tower - Generic Landmark (5x5)_2ed5ad51.SC4Lot (NDEX - Bosworth Tower - Generic Landmark (5x5)_2ed5ad51.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Bosworth Tower
NDEX - Bosworth Tower - Growable R$$$ (5x5)_4ed5cf31.SC4Lot (NDEX - Bosworth Tower - Growable R$$$ (5x5)_4ed5cf31.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Bosworth Tower
NDEX - Atlantic Plaza - Growable R3 (4x4)_cf0aaa2a.SC4Lot (NDEX - Atlantic Plaza - Growable R3 (4x4)_cf0aaa2a.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Atlantic Plaza
NDEX - Atlantic Plaza - Ploppable CS3 (4x4)_af0aaa81.SC4Lot (NDEX - Atlantic Plaza - Ploppable CS3 (4x4)_af0aaa81.SC4Lot)  found in C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Oneil Models\NDEX Atlantic Plaza

I don't know if the links are being updated, the files have errors in typing, the files are different names but the same model, my file is an old one (I dl'd it maybe a week ago), etc.

Should I assume the models I have are OK?

Thx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 06, 2007, 02:18:37 PM
Thanks SC4BOY!
At least three of those are typos, the filename excluded the file type ending .dat

Correct text in the Cleanitol should have been:

Oneil's Dakota Park Place [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12726
Oneil's Atlantic Plaza [Model].dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11579
Oneil's Bosworth Tower Model.dat;http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11275

In other words, you obviously have those files.

The last one, ss(2)-0x5ad0e817_0xcd4d6e21_0x80000.SC4Model, looks correct.
Can you please search your plugins folder and confirm that you certainly have that file?

I'm enclosing an updated, corrected Cleanitol file to this post and will ask Barby to update the file on the LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on December 06, 2007, 02:41:21 PM
I did check. You are correct. I did dl it, but somehow in my install, doc, register, etc process I left that building off..  &cry2 .. When I ran it again, it did confirm that the last was present.. The title of it is "Astoria Plaza" if anyone cares.. :)

Thanks for the info on the other three..


However I have another one.. :) (am I the only person who runs these? LOL)
These are from RemoveListCAMModels.txt from download CleanitolCAMModels.zip

**************************************************
                    R E P O R T
**************************************************
MISSING : ITS_25_Bankstreet-0x5ad0e817_0x8152c94a_0x30000.SC4Model has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17318
MISSING : Superstar's Citicbank Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0xb0000.SC4Model has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=14112
MISSING : Superstar's Key Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0x30000.SC4Model has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13844
MISSING : SG_WareHousesSmall.dat has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12859
MISSING : SG_HansonHosieryMills.dat has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=15015
MISSING : SG_AutoFactory.dat has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=12861
MISSING : SG_GooberGenLabs.dat has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13927
MISSING : jes_HudsonGlass3-0x5ad0e817_0x12774cc5_0x30000.SC4Model has not been found, you can download it : http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=617
You seem to be missing some dependancies


I believe I have all of these files installed. I guess I have the same dumb questions on these that I had before. Can I give you more data? I made a quick check to see if these have been reported and don't find it. If I've missed it, I'm sorry.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I find I have the "support files" for these. Is it possible I am installing the right files, then they are being removed by the Cleanitol process?

edit: Hmm well at least these:
Superstar's Key Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0x30000.SC4Model
ITS_25_Bankstreet-0x5ad0e817_0x8152c94a_0x30000.SC4Model
SG_WareHousesSmall.dat
SG_HansonHosieryMills.dat
SG_GooberGenLabs.dat
I show have been removed by cleanitol processes.. AHHHHHH! I'm chasing my tail! LOL.. where is that CAM for Dummies?? ;)  I know I have installed all of them in one form or another...  :'(

PS: I think I recall someone had a utility to check for duplicate files. I thought I read it somewhere in these CAM threads, but I can't find it now to save my life. Does anyone know how or have a link to one? .. Thx


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on December 06, 2007, 08:40:30 PM
Doublekiller (http://www.bigbangenterprises.de/en/doublekiller/)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on December 06, 2007, 08:56:58 PM
Quote from: snorrelli on December 06, 2007, 08:40:30 PM
Doublekiller (http://www.bigbangenterprises.de/en/doublekiller/)

Thanks.. also found Wou's Recommendation (http://www.heatsoft.com/has/HASindex.html) in one of Wou's threads.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 07, 2007, 01:45:58 AM
Quote from: SC4BOY on December 06, 2007, 02:41:21 PM
MISSING : Superstar's Key Tower [Model]-0x5ad0e817_0x102a45d9_0x30000.SC4Model has not been found, you can download it : http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13844

Note that this one should be replaced by NDEX FIXED Key Tower by Superstar (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1340). :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 07, 2007, 12:01:10 PM
Just a quick question.  I just downloaded the CAM last week and what seemed like 500 dependencies.  I notice the game seems to take A LOT longer to load up now.  This is not a problem in itself, but now that my first CAM city ever has reached about 150,000 people (which has been a lot of fun), the simulation is really slowing down...every time I move, it moves, and then has to render, whereas before it seemed mostly fluid.  I have also noticed a pretty significant lag when I try to check my traffic map of about 5 to 10 seconds, every other graph seems unaffected. 

Is it the CAM slowing it down?  Or have the over 1 GB of additional buildings and modifications been doing this? I am curious.

My System:
2.8 Ghz
1.5 GB RAM
256 MB 400 mhz video accelerator
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 07, 2007, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: pkremer on December 07, 2007, 12:01:10 PM
Is it the CAM slowing it down?  Or have the over 1 GB of additional buildings and modifications been doing this? I am curious.

The size of your plugins is most probably the cause of your lag.

You do not have to install ALL CAMeLots that are available...
Nobody playing RH would download and install everything available either.

Did you remove any of your existing buildings and lots when installing the CAMeLots?
You should at least have removed all old skyscrapers of stage 8.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 07, 2007, 12:16:59 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on December 07, 2007, 12:08:36 PM
The size of your plugins is most probably the cause of your lag.

You do not have to install ALL CAMeLots that are available...
Nobody playing RH would download and install everything available either.

Did you remove any of your existing buildings and lots when installing the CAMeLots?
You should at least have removed all old skyscrapers of stage 8.

Yeah, I guess I got greedy.  It was only a few weeks ago I discovered this site, along with Simtropolis, and was blown away by how great the custom buildings were.  Then I picked up my new video card and SC4 ran like lightning.  I think the problem was I found SO much great stuff I wasn't careful, I just downloaded everything I liked.  I may need to go through and clean house, and pull out the stuff I don't really love. 

Once I saw how the video card made my game run, I just figured I could do whatever I wanted...guess I was wrong!  :D 

By the way, Thanks so much for the CAM addon! I have always been a W2W player, trying to cram as many people onto my squares as I possibly could, and got a little bored because of just how painfully difficult it was to get those massive buildings to grow on their own in ordinary RH.  With CAM, I have 150,000 people and I've got some massive buildings popping up everywhere.  I am really having a great time!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 07, 2007, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: pkremer on December 07, 2007, 12:16:59 PM
I am really having a great time!  :thumbsup:

It's a great pleasure to hear that! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 07, 2007, 01:30:14 PM
All right, I clipped out quite a few buildings I didn't love, but there's still a ton of content in there.  I took all the prop packages, texture packages, etc, and put them in the main folder instead of all the subdirectories they got installed to, and even found 1 duplicate prop pack that was in there twice... &ops

It still boots slower than it used to, but it seemed to pick up, and the game moves faster while simulating now.  Just clean it up a bit more, and it should move smooth again! Thanks!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gml_josea on December 07, 2007, 01:30:48 PM
I have a question, but this one has more to deal with copyright-ish issues.
Hunting the dependencies for the CAM starter packs is time consuming, specially for people who didn't have ANY of the dependencies, what do you think of packing the CAM, the starter packs and the dependencies in one .zip file and releasing it as a torrent? I think many people would be glad to download everything in one go, and it doesn't cost badnwidth to the site.
Huh?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 07, 2007, 05:32:41 PM
Quote from: gml_josea on December 07, 2007, 01:30:48 PM
but this one has more to deal with copyright-ish issues.

Exactly, and that's the main reason we can't do it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 15, 2007, 01:56:52 PM
Hi, I downloaded the CAM and started a new region with it. It seems great! Growth is a lot more realistic. However i 

had one problem... no CO$$$ development at all.  I downloaded the repository facility and it says CO$$$ stage cap is

0%, with drive as 19341 and demand as +23999. The CO$$ stage cap is 13% (off the top of my head) with ~60 000

jobs by way of contrast. Is there a bug or something preventing CO$$$ stage growth? Im pretty sure its not due to

low desirability as there are commercial areas with low crime, garbage, and high land value, covered by police and fire

and parks, and CS$$$, is growing normally.
Cheers
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 15, 2007, 02:00:40 PM
Could you post a snapshot of the Census Repository Query window, just to be certain before I try to guess what might be wrong. ::)

The only thing that normally could be blocking CO$$$ would be some kind of a Maxis blocker...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:03:05 PM
159946 inhabitants
Residential Capacity    Cap    City     3 months        1 yr       drive    demand      region      projected
R$                            100    83k      -2k              4k           93k      0                                240k
R$$                            72     62k       -1k            -2.5k       91k    -636                            135k
R$$$                          20     13k        839            514        17.5k   -2242                           23k

90% commercial
CO$$                          11     62k      191              509         25k     -5k                            121k   
CO$$$                         0        6         0                 1          19k       23999                         89k
cs$                                      5k        0                -143      16306
CS$$                                   15k       -109            -126      21k       
CS$$$                                 9k         -7               182        3498
IH                              1%     10k      -33               285       23k       -5k

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 15, 2007, 03:04:07 PM
Thank you for sending me your Census Repository Report over email, DVR! :thumbsup:

I'm posting it here so that others can take part of it as well (you have to host your images off site and link to them):

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg337.imageshack.us%2Fimg337%2F5913%2Fdvrcensusoa4.jpg&hash=eee2285938e9d851ca3db8cce928ab91f6ecd239)

Then, to your question... and that's where I don't have an answer, at least not right away... %confuso
Obviously something is indeed blocking CO§§§, but it's rather difficult to pinpoint what it could be...

I would need to know what other mods you might have in your plugins folders...
Could you first confirm that you do not have any of the known inCAMpatible Mods (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1925.0) installed?
There is a Cleanitol file to help you with that, attached to the end of the post I linked you to. ;)

I would also ask you to specifically search your plugins for any of the following files:
     no_CO$$$.DAT
     TSB_BlockAll_CO$$$.dat
     NMBM Co$$$*.dat

Do you have any ordinances enacted in your city?

What is your CO§§§ tax?
Can you post a snapshot of your desirability dataview (map) for CO§§§?

Is the situation exactly the same in your neighbouring cities?

If nothing of the above resolves anything, then the task becomes more difficult.
Basically I would in that case need a list of all files in your plugins to see if anything suspecious could be found.

In the end, the error might also be in the saved game file.
And if that is the case, there is very little chance of rectifying the situation.

But we're not there yet! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:21:08 PM
its the same in all cities.
No imcampatible mods i know of....i have NAM transport mod and roadtop mod, hole digger lots, and no car lots (though this doesnt work and i dont use it)
0.0% tax on CO$$$-was trying to get them to grow
Could not find no_CO$$$.DAT
                   TSB_BlockAll_CO$$$.dat
                   NMBM Co$$$*.dat
Desirability dataview is mostly green
BTW i tried playing some of my previous regions: CO$$ and CO$$$ demand (and all other commercials) were huge and residential demand negative...think this is because of different residential/commercial balances in rush hour vs CAM. anyway there was a lot of stage 8 CO$$ development (in terms of rush hour, not sure of corresponding cam stages), but very little CO$$$ development, none at stage 8. Found this surprising as id deleted all the stage 8 downloaded skyscrapers from the cities, leaving only the simcity lots, so there was a large gap to fill.
THanks a lot for ur time!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 15, 2007, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:21:08 PM
Found this surprising as id deleted all the stage 8 downloaded skyscrapers from the cities, leaving only the simcity lots, so there was a large gap to fill.

Did you delete a number of stage 8 CO§§§ skyscrapers in this city/region as well before installing CAM?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:30:54 PM
I had a couple of small cities in the region before i put on CAM. I doubt they had any stage 8 commercial as they were pretty small...but i deleted them all and started the region again after downloading CAM
BTW i meant i deleted only skyscrapers id downloaded, not the naturally occuring ones in simcity
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:36:37 PM
:S ok i was playing that city, and "west and co.", high wealth commerical office (526 jobs) suddenly grew, Desirability is maximum green in that area, but it is in most commercial areas and that was in a bit of commercial id mixed in my residential areas rather than the downtown. I guess theres nothing stopping the growht of CO$$$ then, but im pretty sure they are being restricted.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 15, 2007, 03:51:34 PM
The demand simulators might become rather wacky if you bulldoze lots of buildings in a short time frame, that's why I was asking. We did experience that during testing when trying to increase commercial demand by bulldozing a CBD. Instead of seeing an increased CO demand, we experienced a massively negative residential demand with mass abandonment as a result. ;)

It would be interesting to hear if you do get CO§§§ to grow now... please let us now! :)

Otherwise it does sound like a problem in your saved game file though.
The easiest way to confirm that would be to start with a new region, one that you have never even had open ever before and run it from scratch with CAM and see if the same problems would appear in that case as well.
If CO§§§ wouldn't grow in such a region either, then there must be some mod that's restricting them... &Thk/(
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:59:54 PM
ok thanks for your help! i wont reply till tomorrow, but im getting 1 or 2 co$$$ buildings now....3 wren insurance, 1 walton plaza, 2 modde incs. This is still massively under what you would expect with the demand. I tried to see if there was a desirability problem....but they dont stand out from other areas in anything at all. In fact, 2 of them are yellow in the map mode for crime, so worse than most areas!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 15, 2007, 04:01:59 PM
Quote from: DVR on December 15, 2007, 03:59:54 PM
ok thanks for your help!

My pleasure, I didn't do that much yet! :)
Hope to hear good news from you tomorrow then! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on December 15, 2007, 04:33:58 PM
Demand Cap Relief. Look at your Residentials. Your taped out. No low wealth sims can grow thus no low class employees in your COSS.
Do you have any minor or major league ball fields in your city? They have a demand Cap Relief for R$ of 300,000.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rpadgett41 on December 15, 2007, 11:56:41 PM
OK...I am having trouble downloading the files.

I have used both Firefox and IE to try to get the download, but in each instance, I get to the page only to find no downlink.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 16, 2007, 12:06:39 AM
If you are trying to access the LEX, you need to be registered separately for that. I cannot see your username in the list so please register.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rpadgett41 on December 16, 2007, 12:48:05 AM
Thanks...that fixed it.

Quote from: BarbyW on December 16, 2007, 12:06:39 AM
If you are trying to access the LEX, you need to be registered separately for that. I cannot see your username in the list so please register.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 16, 2007, 01:41:59 AM
Have you registered on the LEX as well?
You need to register separately for the BSC LEX (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/). :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 17, 2007, 10:15:38 AM
yeah i started a new city in a new region and have the same problem with CO$$$. i dont reckon its bcos of my R$ taping out...the problem was there from the beginning and didnt change when i added both the stadiums. Do i have to reinstall simcity or something :( ?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 17, 2007, 10:20:34 AM
How long did you let the simulation run in the new region?

At start there is never any demand for CO§§§.
You need to have some well educated wealthy sims before you will see any CO§§§ demand.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DVR on December 17, 2007, 11:28:31 AM
i waited till there was co$$$ demand of course, and tried making some ultra desirable commercial space then, but no luck
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 17, 2007, 11:43:56 AM
Then there is obviously something restricting CO§§§.
It isn't in the saved game file, so it has to be a mod you have installed... :-\

A quick confirmation on that would be to (once again) restart with a brand new region and an empty plugins folder.
In other words, play with only RH and Maxis content (sounds awefully boring $%Grinno$%, but that's how we initially tested the CAM as well).

If you have a mod interfering with the CO§§§ demand, you should now have normal CO§§§ demand when the EQ and wealth levels have picked up.

If that appears to be working, I would start by making a fresh installation of the CAM and nothing else.
See if that works (with only Maxis content)... then add your custom content, one folder at a time and see if the CO§§§ demand stays or goes.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on December 17, 2007, 01:01:00 PM
Hello,
   Has the SG RLS Resort been updated or should I download off STEX?.Thanx :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 17, 2007, 01:20:25 PM
The RLS Resort is included in Hotels Pack 1 on the LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bluebeard on December 17, 2007, 01:34:03 PM
Thanx Goddess.
      Just going through the "Rewards" and I noticed the Resort was part of the chain.Thanx and Happy Holidays. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jerzeslugga on December 22, 2007, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: MAS71 on June 14, 2007, 10:57:31 PM
-- A report of 50 years of a Default-City  and a CAM-City  --

Hi all ;)
Now, We CAMster (tester of CAM) continue testing it fot completion the CAM1.0 for public.
And perhaps it will be the last test if it will have no problems. ;)
I can't wait a July me too!! ;D

Well,
I want all of you to watch this little report about a difference of Default-City and CAM-City today. ;)

Before,
I remove all of RCI-Buildings from one city which grew up.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg378.imageshack.us%2Fimg378%2F7342%2Fcam801wp3.jpg&hash=0498f36498c87f20442cd774b11d33f071dfbca5)
and I watched this city in each two ways of states. (Default and with CAM)



- 20 years later -
<a href="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/289/cam820ky7.jpg">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F289%2Fcam820ky7.jpg&hash=a7e978ba73801b61e31e8cb74bbce6aad81fcac5)</a>
(Click image to full size)



- 50 years later -
<a href="http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9099/cam850bo1.jpg">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F9099%2Fcam850bo1.jpg&hash=e6e40126c7dd11e0a4778f9066b1d513bad0c230)</a>
(Click image to full size)
A "Default-City" was stop a development about 30 years later.
however,  Development of "CAM-City" continues  about 45 years !!



- A result after 50 years of each city -
<a href="http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1376/cam8finalan7.gif">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg378.imageshack.us%2Fimg378%2F1376%2Fcam8finalan7.gif&hash=e5ef1aa366b8b79660cfef9e2c1cf6e486f67129)</a>
(Click image to full size)
You can see a difference of development each city.
A difference of "Default-City" and "CAM-City" is clear at a glance !!


For BETA of CAM.
We using about 70 of C$ and R$ Test-LOTs now.
(These are LOTs for tests to the last.)
Therefore a kind of a building to appear is entrusted to the number of CAMelot.

I don't know how many CAMElots will made on finally.
Perhaps I think that you would look at a very than these lively cities. ;)


Thank you.

I've been tryign to recreate a city that looks liek that for months...My terraforming skills is arse-nanny though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jip2 on December 23, 2007, 12:07:21 AM
I'm having a weird problem with my game. Sometimes the time freezes meaning that the date won't change. Can this be caused by CAM or one of it's dependencies?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 23, 2007, 01:07:40 AM
Most probably not due to the CAM! $%Grinno$%
More likely due to a large plugins folder or due to running the game at too high a speed...
What speed are you running the game at? Does the time stop at all speeds?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jip2 on December 23, 2007, 01:27:10 AM
I'm running the mostly on max speed. I did some more testing and the time started running again  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 23, 2007, 01:40:30 AM
Quote from: jip2 on December 23, 2007, 01:27:10 AM
the time started running again  ;D

What a relief! :D :D :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on December 23, 2007, 06:12:34 AM
lucky escape there RJ, :P soon as ill post some pics of my CAM experiences...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 23, 2007, 08:08:33 AM
Quote from: mightygoose on December 23, 2007, 06:12:34 AM
:P soon as ill post some pics of my CAM experiences...

I am looking forward to it! ::) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Yorkie23 on December 24, 2007, 08:21:27 AM
Hi

What civic buildings can be used with the CAM are there any you recommend on the BSC Lex.

thanks and have a good christmas to all.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 24, 2007, 08:52:03 AM
Hey there! I realize that you probably need permission to do so, but I would love to see this new building added recently on the STEX as a CAMeLot! This building wants to be in my city, but I don't want to add more stage 8 CO buildings into the mix, as it is recommended to take them all out, isn't it? Anyway, just a request!  ;D

Aon Center (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19143&v=1)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 24, 2007, 11:15:07 PM
Actually, I believe that permission is only required if you include the model in the upload, or you use the original lot. But if a new lot were created, modified to CAM standards with XTool, then the lot could be uploaded, with the building model listed as a dependency.
Until the XTool is finalized for release, it is possible to tweak buildings in Ilive's Reader program, to modify growth stage and capacity, though it would only be an estimate (or the values that you would want for the building).
I've done this for a couple of Residential lots, making them Stage 15 R$$$'s, just to make sure that my CAM cities would support the growth.


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 25, 2007, 12:02:55 PM
Is this something I would be able to do myself?  What is the X tool, and could I even get it if I wanted?  I would be very happy to make buildings into CAMeLots if I knew how to do so!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 25, 2007, 02:52:12 PM
As yet the X Tool is not on public release but we have hopes that wouanagaine will have it ready in the not too distant future.
Until it is available you can ask for lots for your use to be made for you. All you need to do is say which models you would like CAMelots of and one of us will make a bare lot for you to prop yourself.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 26, 2007, 08:29:02 AM
Quote from: Yorkie23 on December 24, 2007, 08:21:27 AM
What civic buildings can be used with the CAM are there any you recommend on the BSC Lex.

thanks and have a good christmas to all.


I hope you had a merry christmas as well! At least I did! ;)

Basically, you can use any available civic buildings with the CAM.
However, if you're aiming for huge skyscraper cities, then you might want some bigger ones.

And if you want civic buildings with capacities and other properties in line with those that Maxis made, I'd recommend the following recent uploads:

Simgoober Education Lots BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1382)
SG Health BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1384)
Taunton State Hospital (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1385)
Mattb325 Bathurst St Police Station (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1358)
Mattb325 Eastern Hill Fire Station (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=863)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 27, 2007, 07:31:11 AM
I was testing out a new CAMeLot today and look what grew for me ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fsomygrow.jpg&hash=150c3ae6e7108fcb2cee70efdaa384dbb3e9f51e)

One of the SOMY I-HT lots - the 4x7  :thumbsup: See they do grow.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on December 27, 2007, 07:56:24 AM
WOOOOT!! You go girl! :).. you just posted that so I wouldn't ask you later, didn't you? hehe...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 27, 2007, 08:07:26 AM
OK, now I'm jealous Barby. Is this with CAM 1.0 though or a beta?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 27, 2007, 09:11:40 AM
Thank you, Barby! :thumbsup:


Quote from: xxdita on December 27, 2007, 08:07:26 AM
OK, now I'm jealous Barby. Is this with CAM 1.0 though or a beta?

It's with beta 1.0.2 ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: LoneRanger on December 27, 2007, 11:02:35 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on December 27, 2007, 07:31:11 AM
I was testing out a new CAMeLot today and look what grew for me ;D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy171%2Fbarbyw%2Fsomygrow.jpg&hash=150c3ae6e7108fcb2cee70efdaa384dbb3e9f51e)

One of the SOMY I-HT lots - the 4x7  :thumbsup: See they do grow.

I hate to spoil your fun  :D but this picture was posted somewhere else by Loerelau:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs122.xs.to%2Fxs122%2F07516%2Findustry4.png.xs.jpg&hash=ec18f0fcf68d32775540c9588520b9bca1e60f1e)



I don't know if he plopped it or grew it but he wrote it was stage 10.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 27, 2007, 11:06:32 AM
Not spoiling my fun, LoneRanger. I was just pleased to see this rare building appear. There have been many questions about the SOMY CAMelots so I just showed one that had grown.
Where was this picture posted?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: LoneRanger on December 27, 2007, 11:22:55 AM
Ah ok, didn't know about the trouble getting somy's to grow.  :)

It was posted at gathering.tweakers.net wich is mainly a [dutch] tech forum and "we" got a small corner devoted to SC4.

http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/29302588#29302588
Forth picture in that reply.
Loerelau is a member here too. [same person, same nick]
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 27, 2007, 12:06:11 PM
Thanks for the link, LoneRanger. I wish I could read the Dutch ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 27, 2007, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on December 27, 2007, 09:11:40 AM
Thank you, Barby! :thumbsup:


It's with beta 1.0.2 ::)

At least there's hope for me to see it grow, as soon as 1.1 is released anyway.  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wouanagaine on December 27, 2007, 01:37:04 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on December 27, 2007, 09:11:40 AM
Thank you, Barby! :thumbsup:


It's with beta 1.0.2 ::)
Damn where is 1.0.2 ??? I'm sticked with 1.0.1
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 27, 2007, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: wouanagaine on December 27, 2007, 01:37:04 PM
Damn where is 1.0.2 ??? I'm sticked with 1.0.1

:D :D :D

Barby's harddisk... ::) :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 27, 2007, 02:26:35 PM
Barby, I was thrilled when I saw you had CAMeLotted the new NVIDIA Center!

I don't suppose you might be willing to CAMeLot this new Simtropolis creation, the Aon Center (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19143&v=1)?  It is a stage 8 building I am assuming, and I was hoping not to add new stage 8 buildings with the CAM installed.  Any chance?  I would love to do it myself, but I simply don't know how!  :'(

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 27, 2007, 02:40:50 PM
I would relot it for CAM but I can't download at the moment as the sTEX is odd again. No images and an error message when I try to download.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: caronte22 on December 27, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
Aw come on guys, it isn't that hard to grow those Somy's lots. I just grew two o_O I think
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg339.imageshack.us%2Fimg339%2F286%2Fsomyhtcx2.jpg&hash=4538288f0e570831d2e4e2155973af7cae29f675)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 27, 2007, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: caronte22 on December 27, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
Aw come on guys, it isn't that hard to grow those Somy's lots. I just grew two o_O I think

Quite amazing... especially since I'm pretty sure you're not using CAM beta 1.0.1... $%Grinno$%

It shouldn't (or at least I thought so) be possible to grow them in CAM 1.0... ???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: caronte22 on December 27, 2007, 04:15:41 PM
Perhaps it has something to do with my extremely high I-HT demand. The region was high tech thirsty  :). Right after I broke the Stage 10 threshold I got them  :o

BTW, I have a question. I've been trying to get stage 7 farms. I've zoned a lot of farming areas, with water, parks and fire protection, yet I seem to get only stage 1 farms o_o. I've only grew two small forest reserves things, but absolutely no stage 7. And come on, my industrial capacity is nearing the 600,000.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 29, 2007, 03:03:33 AM
Quote from: caronte22 on December 27, 2007, 04:15:41 PM
BTW, I have a question. I've been trying to get stage 7 farms. I've zoned a lot of farming areas, with water, parks and fire protection, yet I seem to get only stage 1 farms o_o. I've only grew two small forest reserves things, but absolutely no stage 7. And come on, my industrial capacity is nearing the 600,000.

Even after your regional industrial capacity has surpassed 250,000, the chance of growing a stage 7 farm is only 1%.
It isn't supposed to be easy to get them. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: caronte22 on December 29, 2007, 07:19:43 AM
QuoteEven after your regional industrial capacity has surpassed 250,000, the chance of growing a stage 7 farm is only 1%.
Dang =/
And what are the chances of developing Stage 5 and 6?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 29, 2007, 01:55:21 PM
After surpassing that last threshold, at a regional industrial capacity of 250,000, the chances are:

Stage 1 - 18%
Stage 2 - 18%
Stage 3 - 18%
Stage 4 - 18%
Stage 5 - 18%
Stage 6 - 9%
Stage 7 - 1%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: patch_110 on December 30, 2007, 05:46:49 AM
Hi I cant get the 2 biuldings required for this download whenever i try and click the links it just tells me theres a problem with stex been trying for almost 2 days now. Is there anywhere to get the files.Thanks Patch
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 30, 2007, 06:02:42 AM
I'm sorry but you will have to wait for the STEX to re appear. The nVidia building is available at Toutsimcity here: http://www.toutsimcity.com/downloads.php?view=1008
I shall ask paulvmontfort for permission to upload the Lippo Centre here.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: patch_110 on December 30, 2007, 07:18:43 AM
ok thanks for your help barby
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 31, 2007, 09:45:06 AM
Hey barbyw, it appears the STEX is finally back up! The Aon Center (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19143&v=1) is still begging to be in my city!  $%Grinno$%

I really appreciate everything you do for us players! I have never enjoyed SimCity as much as I have since I installed the CAM!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on December 31, 2007, 10:45:18 AM
The Aon Center will have to wait until tomorrow as I am off out partying. Happy New Year.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on December 31, 2007, 11:56:59 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on December 31, 2007, 10:45:18 AM
The Aon Center will have to wait until tomorrow as I am off out partying. Happy New Year.

Have a great time, and try to not burn Paris down!  :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bwatterud on December 31, 2007, 12:22:38 PM
I'm a mac user, and just getting around to installing CAM.  When I tried to install the World Financial Center lots, I discovered that the original STEX upload that contained the required model files is not FileJuicer compatible.  Is there any way that you could get permission to upload a zip archive containing the models, or could someone email me the files? 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 31, 2007, 04:16:52 PM
PM me your e-mail address and I'll send the model files to you by e-mail! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on January 02, 2008, 04:21:25 AM
pkremer: I have made the Aon Center a CAMelot for you but as the model is badly scaled - a sim is bigger than the entrance doors - I have not re lotted it and do not want to upload it to the LEX. This is a copy of the original lot with a new TGI so will not conflict with the original apart from gorwing at the corrected stage. It is a stage 10 CO$$$ and I am attaching it here for you.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on January 02, 2008, 06:43:17 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on January 02, 2008, 04:21:25 AM
pkremer: I have made the Aon Center a CAMelot for you but as the model is badly scaled - a sim is bigger than the entrance doors - I have not re lotted it and do not want to upload it to the LEX. This is a copy of the original lot with a new TGI so will not conflict with the original apart from gorwing at the corrected stage. It is a stage 10 CO$$$ and I am attaching it here for you.

Thank you very much! I really appreciate it! :) I didn't realize the scale was off. I installed the Aon Center into a folder, and then put this stage 10 lot file in the folder and deleted the stage 8 lot file.  Is that right?

Thanks again!  ;D

EDIT:  I notice you say you did NOT relot it, but just made a new file to adjust how it grows? I pulled the stage 8 lot file back out of the recycle bin and put it back in the folder just in case.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on January 02, 2008, 06:49:23 AM
You don't need the stage 8 lot file as there are no special props on the original. So long as you have the model file and the stage 10 file you will be fine.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow_prophet on January 10, 2008, 01:58:55 AM
Hey fellas,

I was just wondering where can I find and download the X-tool? I just made a I-HT lot and was hoping to convert it to a stage 10 I-HT growable.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 10, 2008, 02:02:24 AM
It isn't available yet... there's still development going on for the first public beta version. ;)

Besides, Wouanagaine is caught with a real life cold... $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Shadow_prophet on January 10, 2008, 02:55:48 AM
Aww, thats too bad.  :(

Well I guess i'll have to wait a while more then :-\
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: pkremer on January 10, 2008, 08:36:04 PM
Any chance of seeing the new Bank of China (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=19220&v=1) as a CAMeLot? :)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stex-server.com%2Flots%2Fpaulvmontfort%2Fpaulvmontfort_hk%2520bank%2520of%2520china%2520tower%2FBOCDAY.JPG&hash=1937ed87474781301ce161119a7ae878758790c1)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DutcHmaNinc on January 14, 2008, 06:23:26 AM
Hi there, i just started again with SC4. Took me a damn long time to get CAM and nessecities installed, but i succeded and i'm on my way, so to speak, with all the joy the CAM brings me. I do encounter some strange happenings though with my schools. There are barely any students going there (goos for high and elementry schools). Also all my people in the city (even houses that are way out of range from my schools) have a high student grade (i was like O_O WOW!). My city now is about 50.000 souls big ...
I just feel like somethings wrong here. Can anyone help me out?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 14, 2008, 06:31:22 AM
Since CAM doesn't influence the education in any way, you must have either plopped a highly efficient school (like RalphaelNinja's Mini Hogwarts) or enacted some ordinance giving your Sims instant education...
Could you take a look at your educational budget panel and your city ordinances first? :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DutcHmaNinc on January 14, 2008, 06:44:10 AM
I already thought so but I'm kinda using a bare installation off CAM. Only schools i got installed are SimGoobers schools and bixels HKSAS Primary School. The only ordinance i use is the commuter shuttle service. Strange ... need to look into it ltrz today (@work atm). maybe i'll post some screenies as well. Thx for the quick reply, and if any other idea's come to mind please let me know.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: feitut on January 16, 2008, 12:38:22 AM
another player got another problem, i also experience problem installing the right plug in so CAM can work properly.
I tried to install only CAM and depedencies its needed, but there is no CAM residential and commercial building  appeares even my main city population has reach 40 k someting... and yes i already check there are no incampatible mods in my plug in folder, and have 4 neighboring cities  :'(

It would be great if someone can provide basic plug in bundle for CAM that works and tested..

Maybe too much work... ()sad()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 16, 2008, 12:57:54 AM
You need to let your cities spread out more before you will start to see CAMeLots.

For your information, the regional thresholds for stage 9 buildings are listed below:


86,836
  Regional Residential Capacity
R§§
97,655
  Regional Residential Capacity
R§§§
108,545
  Regional Residential Capacity
CS§
32,545
  Regional Commercial Capacity
CS§§
43,360
  Regional Commercial Capacity
CS§§§
54,200
  Regional Commercial Capacity
CO§§
43,360
  Regional Commercial Capacity
CO§§§
54,200
  Regional Commercial Capacity

When these thresholds have been surpassed the chance for a stage 9 CAMeLot to grow is just 1-2% though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: feitut on January 16, 2008, 02:05:11 AM
Sorry for taking bandwith and thanks for the reply,

Its just i have been frustrated trying to get CAM working...
I have already reinstall the game and the plug in twice.
here is my screen shot of main city and CAM counter..
Industrial works fine but residential and Commercial wont grow...

Please help.. :'(
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 16, 2008, 02:55:17 AM
With a regional residential capacity of 96,742, you have the following chances of growing different growth stages:


RCI Type 
  Stage 1 
  Stage 2 
  Stage 3 
  Stage 4 
  Stage 5 
  Stage 6 
  Stage 7 
  Stage 8 
  Stage 9 
 
1 %
3 %
5 %
16 %
19 %
23 %
20 %
11 %
2 %
R§§
2 %
4 %
6 %
19 %
22 %
25 %
16 %
6 %
0 %
R§§§
2 %
4 %
6 %
19 %
22 %
25 %
16 %
6 %
0 %




With a regional commercial capacity of 45,820, you have the following chances of growing different growth stages:


RCI Type 
  Stage 1 
  Stage 2 
  Stage 3 
  Stage 4 
  Stage 5 
  Stage 6 
  Stage 7 
  Stage 8 
  Stage 9 
 
CS§
42 %
14 %
10 %
9 %
8 %
7 %
5 %
3 %
2 %
CS§§
44 %
15 %
9 %
9 %
8 %
6 %
5 %
3 %
1 %
CS§§§
46 %
15 %
9 %
9 %
8 %
6 %
5 %
2 %
0 %
 
CO§§
1 %
3 %
5 %
16 %
19 %
23 %
20 %
11 %
2 %
CO§§§
2 %
4 %
6 %
19 %
22 %
25 %
16 %
6 %
0 %




As you can see, the chances for CAMeLots (stage 9 and above) to appear are still rather small.
Your region has reached a size where mostly stage 4-7 residentials and commercial offices are growing.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 16, 2008, 12:50:17 PM
There acually IS a basic bundle for CAM, with a TON of buildings in it, and that is prvided within the CAM itself. All of the Maxis buildings, including landmarks, have been reconfigured with the XTool, and are included in the CAM. So it's completely possible to play without any additional downloads, at least until you reach the upper stages, say past Stage 10 for R&C, and past Stage 7 for I, where the original Maxis content is lacking.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: feitut on January 16, 2008, 05:47:05 PM
My city is still small tough, i understand.
But not even 1 single CAM residential and commercial building appeared, which i think is not normal..  %confuso
there is something in my plug in folder conflict with CAM i presume, I even already run clean it tool with no result.

Any hints xxdita ?   
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 16, 2008, 06:25:29 PM
Fetuit, I have now posted the complete modding information for the Stage Limits vs. Thresholds here:
Stage Limits and Thresholds (CAM 1.0) (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3578.0)

Since you didn't seem to understand my previous post with the information about the percentual chances that certain growth stages will appear,
I am not sure if you will understand the complete tables about stage limits and thresholds that I linked you to.

In that case I suggest that you stop asking about it and continue to play with your city.
Sooner or later (probably sooner) you will have your first residential or commercial CAMeLot.
The bigger your region grows, the larger the chance for a CAMeLot to appear will be.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 16, 2008, 10:42:47 PM
I think that feitut's problem is also an incorrect reporting of the Regional Capacity, which of course will be corrected with the release of CAM 1.1. But my advice is still the same as RippleJet's, just keep playing. Grow your region out some more, and you will be seeing the higher stage buildings pop up shortly.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 17, 2008, 12:23:48 AM
Quote from: xxdita on January 16, 2008, 10:42:47 PM
I think that feitut's problem is also an incorrect reporting of the Regional Capacity, which of course will be corrected with the release of CAM 1.1.

Not really.
The Regional Capacity is correctly reported by the Census Repository Facility.
It is the very same variable that the simulator reads when determining which growth stage to choose from the Stage vs. Size properties.

When Fetuit's regional residential capacity surpassed 86,636, he reached a level where the first stage 9 R§ may (not will) appear.
The Regional Capacity is now reported as 96,742 and with that he still has a mere 2% chance that the next R§ growing will be a stage 9 house.
His region has not yet reached the thresholds where R§§ and R§§§ CAMeLots would appear (97,655 for R§§ and 108,545 for R§§§).

As soon as his regional residential capacity surpasses 108,545, R§ will have reached its next threshold.
If you check the information in the Stage Limits and Thresholds (CAM 1.0) (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3578.0) you will notice that the chance for a stage 9 R§ will now have risen to 5%.

CAM 1.1 will lead to a correction in the doubling of the regional workforce, but the effect will not be the same on the regional residential capacity.
And if the regional residential capacity would be lower with CAM 1.1, that would even further reduce his chances of growing a residential CAMeLot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: feitut on January 17, 2008, 01:36:05 AM
Being frustrated with no CAM building appeared, i then plopped few residential and commercial building and then after population reach 80 k my first CAM building appeared.... :o

So you are RIGHT  :thumbsup: RippleJet just keep playing.... ;D

Is this condition the same with farming ? cos right now i only have apple and orange tree in my farm city. now i have no doubt on CAM ...  "$Deal"$

It must be frustrating  for you always got same old question from a noob like me  &ops  :P

thanks everyone, off to my city now.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 17, 2008, 01:59:48 AM
Now that I know how to play in a window, that thread is going to always be right behind my game. ()stsfd()

The only thing different with farms is that they don't upgrade, so you would have to demolish them, or zone for new ones as your regional industrial capacity grows.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 17, 2008, 08:58:11 AM
Hello Feitut.

QuoteIs this condition the same with farming ?

Some farming tips:

Look at your region and decide where you want to build your main city. Also look at your region and decide which cities will be farming communities. Do your rural areas first. Don't start your big new skyscraper city until you get done making the country side.

Do not place any education buildings like schools or libraries when you start to build your farm cities. Schools will educate the population and reduce the demand for farms. Schools increase education level, which creates demand for manufacturing or high tech industry, creates demand for wealthy commercial buildings and reduces the demand for farms.  NOTE: Remember that this is all regional!! Making the Sims very educated in one city will have a negative impact on the demand for farms in your next city.

You can build a fire house but I would discourage plopping reward buildings like the Mayors house, police, and parks for the time being.

Occasionally you may find that farms begin to grow but at a very slow pace? Have a look at your demand graph and see if dirty industry is higher than agriculture demand. Find a spot somewhere and zone a large dirty industry area. It should fill up quickly and the demand bar for dirty industry should drop and farms will begin to grow at a faster pace. 

Ok – you now have your rural country side done and you are happy with the farms? You may go back to your farm cities if you wish and provide schools and parks. Some higher wealth commercial services will grow, some homes will upgrade, and your small towns will take on an more affluent and attractive look. The other option is that you can go to your big city. The point I am making is that you can now do anything you want once you have your country side and farms done.

Two more thoughts:

Farms will dilapidate if there is too much traffic. So be creative in your roads and railways. Provide short trips to neighboring cities when possible. I personally don't create neighbor road connections during this first phase of the game and only provide rail connections. Rail spurs industry and farm growth. Rail also provides freight traffic relief that farms and industry generate. I usually place four or five freight rail around and about my farming cities. 

Farms will dilapidate to some extent if there is too much air pollution. Experiment with your zoning techniques. You'll come up with ways for dirty industry and farms to coexist side by side.

Specific CAM farming tips:

If you went to the link that RippleJet provided you will see that the farm stages depend to a certain extent on how much industry you have. You will not progress through the farm stages if you do no build out your industry at the same time. You obviously need to zone residential areas so that Sims can work in the factories. Fear not – this is not a difficult task. What it does mean is that you may not get a stage 5 farm in your very first city. The process is not difficult to achieve.  Farming is not a fast way to play the game. It takes patience.

Stage one, two, and three farms will grow at the beginning of your city. Stage four farms require a small amount of industry plus a nearby water source. A stage five farm requires even more industry and a nearby fire department. And so on.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: feitut on January 17, 2008, 06:07:25 PM
Hi everybody...

Actually this all make sense now,

I thinks its how you played the game, cos i m always chasing for the green bar in every city i make,
thats why my main city got very hard to accomplish CAM building.

It's very important for player to aware about this threshold if not they will just abandon ship and blame
this or that, if you asked me do i read the manual ? oh yes i read it   ::) ,
but too excited with CAM capable of, i want to hurry play the game, must play..... too much number  :bomb: :P .

@ jmyers2043 : I will put your thought to my city farm, right now it's still a mess..
                      thanks for the great tips, thats sure helping me a lot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 17, 2008, 10:06:21 PM
Quote from: feitut on January 17, 2008, 06:07:25 PM
Actually this all make sense now,

I'm glad to hear that, feitut! :thumbsup:




To all of you:
I'm on my way to Brazil for a 2½-week vacation, and won't be back until February 6th. :sunny:
I'm sure BarbyW and xxdita will provide answers to all questions you might have though! ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 29, 2008, 12:16:35 AM
@pkremer and anyone else wanting a building CAMelotted, all you have to do is request it, and a blank lot can be created, ready for lotting. It would be nice to get even more CAMelots on the LEX, after a proper Candidacy. Maybe even finally a Stage 15 R$$$?  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on February 07, 2008, 10:06:33 AM
Isnt the Cobb atlantic a R$$$15
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on February 07, 2008, 10:12:47 AM
No, the Cobb Atlantic is a R$$$ stage 11.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on February 09, 2008, 03:17:55 AM
jeez louise... what about the atpx 8590?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 09, 2008, 03:37:07 AM
I'm thinking that's R$. But I have every CAM download available on the LEX, and the only R$$$ Stage 15's I have are the ones I've personally tweaked for my own use.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on February 09, 2008, 11:18:29 AM
Currently there are no custom stage 15 R§§§ buildings available.
They have been requested for some time now, and we're still waiting for a skyscraper batter to volunteer... ::)

There will be one by Maxis included in CAM 1.1 though, the Empire Stage Building! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on February 10, 2008, 12:20:22 AM
Another suggestion for CAM-ification, if I may...

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg404.imageshack.us%2Fimg404%2F949%2F99230233ah1.jpg&hash=1e35cebd657c97747fc121f5983712e92cf53829)

This is Hagestede Apartments, by Tag-one, I think...

It's a great building (family) and a great lot - one of my favorites. However, it grows like a weed on 2X3 low density zones. Seems like if it were CAM-ified it would become a higher stage lot on medium density zones and would grow less often?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tag_one on February 11, 2008, 07:41:56 AM
Ah the good old Hagestede Apartments which added some density to the low density zones :-[ 
I'll CAMify this one for you. Expect it on the lex in about 1 or 2 weeks  :)

*starts the secret X-Tool $%#Ninj2*
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on February 11, 2008, 09:08:45 AM
Quote from: tag_one on February 11, 2008, 07:41:56 AM
Ah the good old Hagestede Apartments which added some density to the low density zones :-[ 
I'll CAMify this one for you. Expect it on the lex in about 1 or 2 weeks  :)

*starts the secret X-Tool $%#Ninj2*

Whoa - from the author himself! Great - much appreciated. It would also be good if you could keep the same IID, so I don't have to go in and bulldoze all instances first!  $%Grinno$% ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tag_one on February 11, 2008, 10:56:29 AM
No problem at all  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 12, 2008, 12:37:47 AM
Only new instances would be counted by the CAMelot counters though, so you may want to bulldoze them anyway, at least in your active cities, to keep the count accurate.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on February 12, 2008, 02:05:24 AM
Quote from: xxdita on February 12, 2008, 12:37:47 AM
Only new instances would be counted by the CAMelot counters though, so you may want to bulldoze them anyway, at least in your active cities, to keep the count accurate.

xxdita, the Hagestede Apartments are too small to become CAMeLots :P
Four stories tall it wouldn't be called a skyscraper even in my little town! :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 12, 2008, 03:02:37 AM
Doh! I knew it didn't seem right bulldozing one of Tag's buildings
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: remyspam on February 20, 2008, 10:52:59 AM
Forgive me if this has already been asked, but there are so many (massive) topics about Cam.

But if I want to unCam a building, is it correct to just set the growth to a stage 1-8 and remove the weirdlooking OccupantGroups (eg. 0xA5385432)?

There are so many nice buildings available for Cam, but I don't use Cam, that's why I ask :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on February 20, 2008, 11:17:48 AM
You can do change the growth stage but all the buildings available for CAM are available in non CAM versions as well. The stats for the non CAM ones may be skewed - ie excessive garbage - but there are very few CAM only buildings. I don't recognise the Occupant Group you quote as all CAM OGs start 0xB5C00 so would only suggest removing those.
I have to ask why you don't use CAM, however, as it balances the game more and gives more growth stages so you don't get skyscrapers growing too soon or on low density zones. It gives a whole new dimension to the game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: remyspam on February 20, 2008, 11:39:33 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on February 20, 2008, 11:17:48 AM
You can do change the growth stage but all the buildings available for CAM are available in non CAM versions as well. The stats for the non CAM ones may be skewed - ie excessive garbage - but there are very few CAM only buildings. I don't recognise the Occupant Group you quote as all CAM OGs start 0xB5C00 so would only suggest removing those.
I have to ask why you don't use CAM, however, as it balances the game more and gives more growth stages so you don't get skyscrapers growing too soon or on low density zones. It gives a whole new dimension to the game.
The growth stage was just random :)

I'm very hesitant to use cam as I'm afraid I'll get too much skyscrapers, there are already too many as there are now.
(for my taste). I know should use more medium density, but it's almost like there's a fourth density missing (ultra density) for the really high skyscrapers.

Also, the CAM-pictures I've seen so far are mostly cities absolutely full of skyscrapers and quite ugly imho.

Example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg99.imageshack.us%2Fimg99%2F9099%2Fcam850bo1.jpg&hash=e6e40126c7dd11e0a4778f9066b1d513bad0c230)
As you can see the picture on the right as even more skyscrapers.

I know it evens out the growth, etc., but if that means cities full of skyscrapers... We3ll, I don't know.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on February 20, 2008, 11:51:10 AM
But you are far more likely to get skyscrapers much earlier without CAM as they grow at a much earlier stage. I use CAM and have no problems in controlling the growth of a city without skyscrapers. If you are looking at the under stage 8 buildings that state that they have been CAMified, that only means that they have been modded using the X_Tool to have balanced stats and will work with or without CAM. The only buidlings that will ONLY grow with CAM are those with a growth stage for Res and COm over stage 8 and for industrials including farms over stage 3.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: remyspam on February 20, 2008, 12:18:40 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on February 20, 2008, 11:51:10 AM
But you are far more likely to get skyscrapers much earlier without CAM as they grow at a much earlier stage. I use CAM and have no problems in controlling the growth of a city without skyscrapers.
Oh, is that the case?
Maybe I've misjudged the CAM?
It's just that 'Collossus' gives me the feeling of massive buildings, but the name could also be BAM, Balanced Addon Mod?

In that case I might want to try it... I just wouldn't like any Empire State sized buildings in a small farming community :P

And while I'm here and starting to sway... there's a Simgoober mod for growable landmarks.. is there a CAM equivalent?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on February 20, 2008, 12:55:30 PM
I think you have misjudged the CAM. :) I suggest you go here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0
and download the manual which is available in a variety of languages. This should help set your mind at rest.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on February 20, 2008, 05:18:50 PM
Hello Remyspam

I can recommend the CAM.

It is perfect for farms as well as for BIG cities. This is the picture of the CAM region that I am playing with right now. There are a lot of farms. A lot of small towns, villages, and even a big city in the middle of it all.  
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2FNineWells_Smaller.jpg&hash=4f1857851eb2ddc2b009103fcacdc15d02ca67f9)

This is the biggest city in my CAM region.  I now have a total of 6 non industrial CAMeLOTS (4 residential stage 9 and two commercial stage 11). I am trying to have a tall central business district. The most of my city will be sprawling suburbs with a lot of low density commercials and houses.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi148.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs26%2Fjmyers2043%2Froomtogrow.jpg&hash=c94f8bf6eef6f9becfc4ca7d74e6a2167400ffa0)

I hope that I you see that the CAM is not just about being tall. But more about everything working better together.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 21, 2008, 12:12:11 AM
Colossus refers more to the breakthrough of the mod than the size of the buildings. Extending the Vanilla game's 3 Industrial Growth stages to 10, and the 8 Commercial and Residential stages to 15 allows proper placement of all custom content created for the game. A skyscraper no longer has to be just lumped into Stage 8.
Depending on your playing style, CAM generally takes longer to get those skyscrapers to develop, until your region is actually ready for them.
And as an added bonus, all of the CAMelots available on the LEX have been created or tweaked with the XTool, so that the building's capacity, utility usage and trash output are all in line with the stats that Maxis had in their own buildings, as opposed to what the Maxis Plugin Manager would have for the lots, which was fairly disproportionate, especially for larger buildings.
Personally, I wouldn't want to play without CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pauld on February 24, 2008, 07:05:38 AM
I've been playing Simcity for years and didn't know that there was such a large and talented community that enjoyed the game. I have been browsing the Mods and lots and I have one question about installing lots after I install CAM. If a lot description does not say it is compatible with CAM should I assume that it is not? And if it is not compatible should I still download it?

Thanks for your time.
P.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: paroch on February 24, 2008, 07:08:15 AM
Welcome to SC4Devotion - I'm sure you'll find answers to most of your SC4 related questions.

I'm not a CAM player myself so am not sure of the answer.  If you don't gat an answer soon, have a look at the CAM support threads, I'm sure the people who built CAM will see your question there and give you the right answer.

Paul
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on February 24, 2008, 07:10:58 AM
as long as the lot is not a Skyscraper (or a mega-lot) then non CAMeLots should be fine, as only stages 8 and above are as effected by CAM

and welcome to SC4D  :thumbsup: but of course as Paroch says, the support threads are a good read for finding this information

Joe
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on February 24, 2008, 07:24:53 AM
Welcome Pauld!
Just like Joe said, most existing buildings are "CAMpatible", unless they have been modded not to comply with the growth stage setting suggested by Maxis' LotEditor. Existing (non-CAMified) stage 8 buildings should indeed generally be avoided.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MayorSinistrad on February 28, 2008, 08:42:28 PM
Hello - im recently returning to SC4 after just getting a new computer and have a simple question about the CAM before i install.

After doing a moderate amount of reading up am i correct in thinking that only stage8's are not recomended in your plugins?

Will other content from other resources still work with the CAM?

Will other buildings from other designers such as Peg and "that other site" ;) still work in general just not anything stage 8?

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on February 29, 2008, 12:53:18 AM
Hi and welcome back to SC4 MayorSinistrad!

Most buildings out there are still CAMpatible, at least to a degree.
As long as you try to avoid buildings having the wrong growth stage, you should be safe.

Most existing buildings of stage (7)-8 are those that in general do not fit into the population density versus growth stage that Maxis set up.
And if you see skyscrapers that are set to grow on low density, growth stage 1-3, avoid them at all cost!

Most of Peg's buildings are small and grow in the lower stages and shouldn't cause problems with the CAM. :)

Several existing skyscrapers have been upgraded to CAM standards, and are available on the BSC LEX.
Use them rather than the original lots out there! ;)

If in doubt regarding any specific buildings, just post and ask about them and I'll take a look at how well they are modded in respect to the CAM. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 29, 2008, 01:32:42 AM
And if there are any Stage 8 lots you find elsewhere that you'd like to use in your game, or re-lot for LEX Candidacy, just let us know (with a link to the file of course), and one of us can send you the CAMelot.
Welcome to SC4D!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 29, 2008, 05:30:16 AM
Quote from: Pauld on February 24, 2008, 07:05:38 AM
I've been playing Simcity for years and didn't know that there was such a large and talented community that enjoyed the game. I have been browsing the Mods and lots and I have one question about installing lots after I install CAM. If a lot description does not say it is compatible with CAM should I assume that it is not? And if it is not compatible should I still download it?

Thanks for your time.
P.

Most all of the lots available on the LEX are CAMpatible. Other English sites? Not so much for the larger buildings. But if you run into any building you simply must have, someone could probably fix it to be CAMpatible for you, or give you a lot with only the building, so that you can add props to it as you'd like.
Welcome to SC4D, and CAM! I think you'll find it's a brand new game all over again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MayorSinistrad on February 29, 2008, 06:06:35 AM
Awsome thanks for thr info and help, its nice to be a member of a site where the members are actually helpful!

I will indeed be getting my skyscrapers from here at the BSC exchange, my reasoning s i was planning on using the CAM as many of the "packs" released has many buildings included so its a nice way to mod your game and at the same time simplifies getting your plugins up to speed without searching several sites for the material,as all the "good stuff" is now here and mostly CAMpatible!

Thanks again.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on February 29, 2008, 12:08:40 PM
If you have any problems gathering dependencies for the CAMelot starter packs, just click on the link in my signature to make it a lot easier.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rickmastfan67 on February 29, 2008, 07:52:05 PM
Quote from: xxdita on February 29, 2008, 05:30:16 AM
But if you run into any building you simply must have, someone could probably fix it to be CAMpatible for you, or give you a lot with only the building, so that you can add props to it as you'd like.

If that's the case, anybody up for making skyscraper's buildings from the STEX CAMpatible? :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on March 01, 2008, 01:42:43 AM
I am all about the skyscrapers. Just give me some links. You want to lot them for the LEX, or just for personal use? Care to find me a nice Stage 15 R$$$?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: remyspam on March 01, 2008, 02:21:33 AM
I've been playing a while with CAM now and I must admit I love it, the game plays a lot better and ironically I find it harder to grow skyscrapers than before, hahaha.

Brilliant mod, can't believe I've been playing without it :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rickmastfan67 on March 01, 2008, 02:29:19 AM
Quote from: xxdita on March 01, 2008, 01:42:43 AM
I am all about the skyscrapers. Just give me some links. You want to lot them for the LEX, or just for personal use? Care to find me a nice Stage 15 R$$$?

Well, if I knew how the lotting process works, I would try to help out there, but I don't know how to do that.  Plus, I got my hands full on the texture side for the RHW system and other texture projects I have going.  If the re-lotted files where to be posted on the LEX (as long as there are no problems doing that), I know other people would love to have the following builders by "skyscraper" finally grow properly. ;)

http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?page=1&Keyword=skyscraper&view=all
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: klaascornelis on March 01, 2008, 12:28:35 PM
I Installed CAM and then this happend

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh238%2FTrooper47%2Fvaria%2Funtitled.jpg&hash=8124ff0abdaf8e06e44927e510a9a570c41ffecc)

seems like some textures or props are missing on the sc files, I'm just gessing, i'm fairly noobish on this
All dependencies are installed, anybody suggestions
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 02, 2008, 04:12:10 AM
Check your Graphic Settings for City Details. ::)
They need to be set to high for props to appear.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: klaascornelis on March 02, 2008, 06:25:13 AM
Hmmm  $%Grinno$%

Thats strange now it works, how's that? without cam it showes just nice under the medium graphics settings
Wel hell i  tried it before with the settings but dident restart the game.
Wel i'm sorry for my noobishnis and your waste of time.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MayorSinistrad on March 11, 2008, 07:14:36 PM
Getting my plugins back up o sped after a long beak from the game.

Im giveing the CAM a try for the 1st time and was wondering if the lots Equinox had released some time ago will grow with the CAM?

Or would it be a waste of time getting them installed?


Thanks in advance
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on March 11, 2008, 08:39:39 PM
A lot of the old NDEX buildings have been relotted for CAM, including some of the buildings uploaded by Equinox. Just make sure that as you gather dependencies, you only extract the sc4model files downloaded from any other sites.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MayorSinistrad on March 12, 2008, 10:48:56 AM
Ahhh thats what i thought i have already installed them then!

There were a few buildings i simply love to see in my cityscapes and couldnt do without.

I was just trying to be thorough.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mizral on March 18, 2008, 01:31:15 PM
Im new to the CAM and it seem really interesting but i think something went wrong.

I started a new region like suggested but it seem the Residential demands always start in the gutter then stay there no matter what i do. I need to have as many job as i have population to get proper devloppement.

Thanks in advance  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 18, 2008, 01:46:16 PM
Establishing a neighbouring city usually helps if the residential demand is low. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pharaon-Kheops on March 19, 2008, 02:46:02 AM
Hello to all SC4devoted....

I am back after a big month away, and my mind is fully overwhelmed by only one question: what about CAM 1.1 ?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pharaon-Kheops on March 19, 2008, 02:48:49 AM
I got the same issue.... I usually use a "dummy" industrial neighboring city to compensate, until v1.1 settle that thing....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on March 19, 2008, 03:09:50 AM
Good question.  ;)
Not long now...  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mizral on March 19, 2008, 11:46:16 AM
Thanks for the quick awnser!!

Having a neighbour helped but the demand for Commercial and Industiral are still off the charts while the Residential is still negative. Im at 110,000 commerical job for 100,000 population along with 5,000 industial  :-[

I went back to my old region to see how the CAM would affect things and in a city with 525,000population and 220,000 Commerical jobs many Residential buildings went vacant while the commercial had a huge boost.

I'm gonna try your tip Pharaon.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pharaon-Kheops on March 19, 2008, 11:46:09 PM
115.000 jobs for 100.000 pop?  hum, couldn't this also be an effect of eternal commuters?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on March 20, 2008, 12:46:49 AM
There are plenty of possible reasons for demand to be low. I always start with adjusting the tax rates. I would say that you should probably zone more Industrial. How are your transit networks set up? Which traffic simulator are you using? Is garbage being taken care of adequately? Check pollution levels. Use the Census Repository version 2 to get better details about the demand in your cities, it can often pinpoint a problem. Do you have enough civics taking care of your population? Check the desirability map to see if the zone you've created is really where your Sims want to live. Have you hit a Residential Cap? Try plopping some parks, or a stadium.
And if all else fails, cheat.  :P

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mizral on March 20, 2008, 01:10:50 PM
The Industrial city helped with 30,000 jobs and 0 population. Demand went up in the 2 neighbour city's. I didn't have much time to play but the ratio went up about 5% --> 55%pop for 45%jobs.

xxdita i use the NAM Network Addon Mod with x5 capacity and X10 X10. For the garbage i use the dispoal mode that looks like a seaport, maybe it's a problem? I also use a pollution condasator.

Thanks for helping!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mizral on March 23, 2008, 12:23:20 PM
Regional pop is now 384K.

With a few industrial cities i was able to do a 210,000 population 110,000 commercial job city(The city with the monorail) and the residential demand is barely over the minimum and a 165,000pop / 122,000 commerical and residential demandas are negative.

I have an issue with freight train stations they never seem to fill up and there's no visual traffic on my rails.


Here are some pics :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp288%2FV12c%2FTrans45.jpg&hash=e6ddab58059ac5196fa35acfd54864b35cf53825)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp288%2FV12c%2FSatellite45.jpg&hash=dbb6358fea0bbac3cb9174a64661a7b96401701e)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mizral on March 23, 2008, 12:28:49 PM
In the big city :

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp288%2FV12c%2F98.jpg&hash=d242d644affecbbcbc4aa0772260df722beeeba2)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 23, 2008, 01:41:44 PM
xxdita was talking about the Census Repository Facility, Version 2, and should have pointed you to it as well! $%Grinno$%

For the time being it is still only available as an attachement to the first post in this thread:
Census Repository Facility, Version 2 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=41&threadid=84816&enterthread=y)

Read that first post thoroughly, install version 2 and take a snapshot of its query window in your largest city. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Heblem on March 24, 2008, 11:08:13 AM
Quote from: Jose_73 on March 24, 2008, 07:21:44 AM
Hola de nuevo !!! ya me baje todas las dependencias pero creo que alguna mese paso por alto seguro  :(  aun no eh hecho ninguna ciudad pero busque en los menús del juego  hay a donde están los edificios y probando probando me salen esas cajas marrones  :(  ya meda miedo hasta empezar una ciudad por si me salen mas pero bueno espero solucionar el problema porque si no me temo lo peor ..  aquí os dejo los nombres de los edificios que por ahora me salen con las cajas marrones .

Grand Prince hotel aksaka
Aramark Tower
Jenna Lynn officeTower
Coca cola Buildng
Bell South Buildng
The Ritz Cariton

Esos son los edificios que me salen co mlas cajas..
En los menús también me salen edificios sin empleo , cuando salgan en la ciudad por si solos saldran con empleo verdad ?

Saludos !

Please help this friend, i've translated this text into English according to my knowledge...  :-\

Quote from: Jose_73
Hi again !!!, i have all the dependencies on my plugins folder, but maybe I lost one for sure :( I haven't made a city yet but looking at the game menu i have found brown boxes everywhere :( its scary me to start a city now because some of these can be out, well i hope to solve the problem if not worst will be ... here the building name that which boxes appears.


Grand Prince hotel aksaka
Aramark Tower
Jenna Lynn officeTower
Coca cola Buildng
Bell South Buildng
The Ritz Cariton

Those are the building which the boxes appears...
In the menu appear building without jobs , usually they grow with jobs right ?

Greetings !
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on March 24, 2008, 11:56:10 AM
Hi Heblem
Jose_73 seems to be missing BSC Essentials (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=443) 
SG Model Pack Offices Hi Rise 1 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1112)
SG Model Pack Offices Hi Rise 2 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1110)
SG Model Pack Hotels 1 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1104)

I have no idea about the Grand Prince hotel aksaka as it is not one I recognise from the CAM sets.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Heblem on March 24, 2008, 12:01:21 PM
Thank you Barbyw! I already told him about the bsc essentials file but he told me that he had it, but not sure gotta ask again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Jose_73 on March 24, 2008, 02:26:35 PM
Thanks BarbyW and Heblem   :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Anthony on March 24, 2008, 07:49:57 PM
Hello!

I've recently DLd Grand Prince Akasaka as part of NHP ks_jpn CAMeLOTs (linkie http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1300 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1300))

Hope this helps.

Edit: The required model files were not listed in the ReadMe but comes with the Cleanitol file. Here's the link for AkasakaPrinceHotel: http://chilitomato.net/com/ap/GrandPrinceHotelAkasaka.zip
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Mizral on March 25, 2008, 01:08:59 PM
Thanks!

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp288%2FV12c%2FHYU-1.jpg&hash=dba129a5b341de28ec82077a8820d74fabe81b0f)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 25, 2008, 03:40:12 PM
Even if there are 82,015 vacant jobs in this city, there are only 7,046 vacant jobs reported available in your region (at least as seen from this city), so it isn't really that surprising that the residential demand is low (or even negative).

The main reason for the low vacant job count, is the doubling error that is seen in the regional residential capacity and regional workforce.
We know what the reason for this is, but the solution isn't that easy to implement.

CAM 1.1 will provide a solution, one way or the other, but as long as it isn't available, I can only recommend to provide more jobs as long as there's a request for them.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Flare on March 25, 2008, 04:29:35 PM
Hi there!
I tried Cam and it is really nice, there is just one strange thing happening in my new city's.
Normally a lot of people have a job in the industry, especially at the start of a new city when most of your people are poor.
This causes a lot of trafficproblems on the main roads to the industry.
But since i installed Cam, no one seems to work in the industry, but al the jobs the industry-buildings offer are filled.
There aren't any cars that go to the industry only freight trucks when i route-query a road in my industrial zone.
and when i route-query a industrial building, there are only Freight trucks, no workers  &mmm

To me this is very strange, of course it solves a lot of traffic problems but it solves nearly ALL problems.
And so the number of challenges decrease rapidly.

Can someone tell me why this is happening?
And how to solve it?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 25, 2008, 06:27:19 PM
Quote from: Flare on March 25, 2008, 04:29:35 PM
There aren't any cars that go to the industry only freight trucks when i route-query a road in my industrial zone.
and when i route-query a industrial building, there are only Freight trucks, no workers  &mmm

This happens whether you have the CAM or not.

It's one of the peculiar things with the game...
Neither commercials nor industries need to have anyone working in them in order to flourish. $%Grinno$%

Due to the erroneous doubling of the regional capacity and workforce, there are more workplaces in a CAM region than otherwise.
This won't lead to any form of abandonment though, since, as noted, they do not require workers...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Flare on March 25, 2008, 06:45:24 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on March 25, 2008, 06:27:19 PM
This happens whether you have the CAM or not.

It's one of the peculiar things with the game...
Neither commercials nor industries need to have anyone working in them in order to flourish. $%Grinno$%

Due to the erroneous doubling of the regional capacity and workforce, there are more workplaces in a CAM region than otherwise.
This won't lead to any form of abandonment though, since, as noted, they do not require workers...

But in my other city's that i played before i used CAM, i had a enormous amount of traffic going to the industrial zone.
I needed to build Highways to avoid big traffic jams.
Of course, when i route-query a industrial building in such a city, there are a lot of workers. (all by car of course :P ()stsfd())

If this is not the work of CAM, then it seems to me a mayor bug in simcity 4?
And it takes away a big part of the realistic (and difficult) gameplay.
No traffic jams, no airpollution, no traffic noise, no bad environment, no long commute-times  :(
(no good spots for commercial zones because i always make commercial zones along busy roads, this generates a lot of customers :D)

what should i do?
start that city again and see if this time they will travel to my industrial zone? ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 26, 2008, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: Flare on March 25, 2008, 06:45:24 PM
what should i do?
start that city again and see if this time they will travel to my industrial zone? ()what()

You could establish a new neighbouring industrial city which lies further away from your residential areas than the industrial district that you want your workers to go to. That way the neighbouring city won't get many commuters at all, they will be working in the industrial area they would be passing instead. That neighbouring city would be there mainly to compensate for the doubled regional workforce.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on March 26, 2008, 01:28:51 AM
Or you could do what I did... cheat, to get the balance back.
Before I knew the cause of the workforce doubling (and before I got my hands on my new favorite toy) I created several cheat buildings, all plops, to put down to spur things along.
Not that hard to do really. Using Reader, simply adjust the number of jobs for one building in each C/I category, and plop as necessary, to stabilize your city. Make sure that you only plop these lots as needed, or you'll throw everything out of balance in the reverse direction. Though sometimes that can be good too.  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: CasperVg on March 27, 2008, 11:54:36 PM
I have now started lotting some new CAM towers (both commercial and residential, created by 'skyscraper') using descs and base lots that xxdita send me. There's some pictures of one of the conceptual lots in my lotting thread.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rickmastfan67 on March 29, 2008, 04:16:35 AM
Quote from: caspervg on March 27, 2008, 11:54:36 PM
I have now started lotting some new CAM towers (both commercial and residential, created by 'skyscraper') using descs and base lots that xxdita send me. There's some pictures of one of the conceptual lots in my lotting thread.

Dude, you just made my day!!!  I've been waiting for somebody to start CAMafing some of 'skyscraper's buildings. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on March 29, 2008, 04:29:54 AM
I thought you might like that. Was just a matter of finding someone to lot them.
LE and I are hardly on speaking terms  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Zack on May 03, 2008, 03:09:40 PM
I really like the mod but my problem is the constant blooming of the Coit towers. :-[ is there any ways to remove the file that makes it growable or is in integrated with CAM
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 03, 2008, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Zack on May 03, 2008, 03:09:40 PM
I really like the mod but my problem is the constant blooming of the Coit towers. :-[ is there any ways to remove the file that makes it growable or is in integrated with CAM

The Coit Tower does seem to grow more than any other CAMified Maxis building.
The reason for this is its visual appearance. You do notice it a lot easier than any of the other in-game stage 6 CS§§§ buildings.

To block it from growing, place the attached mod into the z_CAM folder.
Existing Coit Towers will still upgrade, but new one won't grow if you have this blocker installed.

Note also that there is no relevance in using this blocker unless you are indeed using CAM! ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Zack on May 03, 2008, 05:04:09 PM
Yes I am indeed using your wonderful mod chap :satisfied:. Thanks for the help :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on May 03, 2008, 09:59:29 PM
From my personal standpoint I'd rather see some creative batters model some more stage 6 CS$$$ growables.. that would be cool.. I suppose its "too small" to be cool.. :(    But the shame of it is that whoever did it would be able to see their building used frequently in a growing city.. :)  Of course I'm not sure how someone would start out to DESIGN a stage 6 growable.. I mean I suppose this would mean certain things about fill factor, lot size, etc ..

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 06, 2008, 05:19:56 AM
Perchance some of my questions have been answered elsewhere, but in the absence of a useful search function I am going to ask them again:

First and foremost: does CAM do anything else other than fill urban centers with, shall we say, "oversized" buildings? I've seen RJ's wonderful charts and explanations, but to me it appears that all it does is to line up one skyscraper after the other.

Next: I am always wary of ZIP's within ZIP's, and a recent download of CAM Commercials and CAM Industrials led to just that. Tons of additional downloads, strangely enough largely from the STEX. Several broken or invalid links (including SG's Herbal Factory pointing to PEG's Van Shipping on the PLEX).

Now, are there any exceptions to be made vis-a-vis the Dat Packer? Because I needed to unpack and repack stuff twice since the original essentials installation. That may have been a fluke, who knows?!

Finally: Does the CAM Essential's installation have any influence or problems with SG's work? Because right after installing said essentials all - all - of SimGoober's lots, schools, hospitals, landmarks, disappeared and required re-installation. I don't want to lay this on CAM's doorstep, again, it could have been a coincident triggered elsewhere.

Thanks for your time..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 06, 2008, 05:29:43 AM
QuoteTons of additional downloads, strangely enough largely from the STEX
That was because we were not allowed to pack models into packs for the LEX.
Quote(including SG's Herbal Factory pointing to PEG's Van Shipping on the PLEX).
This is the result of a recent removal of all SG lots from the PLEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 06, 2008, 05:35:22 AM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 06, 2008, 05:19:56 AM
First and foremost: does CAM do anything else other than fill urban centers with, shall we say, "oversized" buildings? I've seen RJ's wonderful charts and explanations, but to me it appears that all it does is to line up one skyscraper after the other.

Before getting any skyscrapers, you will have a lot more sprawling with the CAM than without it.
Maybe the following pictures posted by mightygoose would give you a better idea of what CAM is, instead of all those CBD districts most players enjoy seeing:

Quote from: mightygoose on August 02, 2007, 02:44:05 PM
has a maxis vanilla city ever looked so good....

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2FCAM1.jpg&hash=39a681dba722ab9df2ef9b30661aec4e4ef60020)

for not until this....

for me its the alteration to the urban topology. much shallower gradient from suburbs to downtown.

Quote from: mightygoose on March 24, 2008, 09:19:47 AM
i love the delaying effect the CAM has on smaller towns.... .

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2FThehalfaoverview-1.jpg&hash=50a66a097a55a04e9c3beb5f6e05bb67c209f4c8)


Quote from: HandsOn on May 06, 2008, 05:19:56 AM
Next: I am always wary of ZIP's within ZIP's, and a recent download of CAM Commercials and CAM Industrials led to just that.

As far as I know only the starter packs have ZIPs within ZIPs, and I don't really see a problem with them.
Especially since you can browse ZIP archives within Windows Explorer.


Quote from: HandsOn on May 06, 2008, 05:19:56 AM
Finally: Does the CAM Essential's installation have any influence or problems with SG's work? Because right after installing said essentials all - all - of SimGoober's lots, schools, hospitals, landmarks, disappeared and required re-installation. I don't want to lay this on CAM's doorstep, again, it could have been a coincident triggered elsewhere.

The CAM essentials only contains the CAMeLot queries, and they are nowadawys included in the BSC Essentials (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=443).
Thus, if you've downloaded and installed the latest BSC Essentials, you can even delete the CAM Essentials (there is a Cleanitol file included that takes care of that).

The CAMeLot queries won't affect any lots already installed, whether they are by SimGoober of not.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on May 06, 2008, 05:46:58 AM
Beleive me when I say that the CAM WILL NOT give you skyscrapers right away.  All the pics you have seen with skyscrapers was just to see the higher stages at work, testing if you will.  I have tried everything to speed up the process of getting skysrapers right away and with no luck.  You definately need everything in place to get them, most importantly, the demand.
These are just my findings and thoughts on the CAM as I have just started using it myself. 

And yes there are broken LINKS here and there, but please, just post them and BSC will fix the problem (if possible) as they always do. 
When I changed my folder over to CAM, I started from scratch.  It did take me a few days, a couple hours each day, but it was well worth as my plugins were a little messy.  As for the zip with zip files inside them, I thought that was a great idea.  Less waiting time for the internet to DL them to my desktop.  I think everything BSC does is very well thought out and what is best for the end user.

Just my three cents......
Robin  ()stsfd()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 06, 2008, 06:10:01 AM
So many questions.  $%Grinno$%
Where to begin?
CAM doesn't just offer larger buildings. Actually, it makes them harder to grow, as they are now in higher stages. So your region must be fairly evolved in order for them to grow. CAM also provides new stages for farms as well, so even your rural areas will see the benefits.
I'd agree that it would be easier for all of the CAM Starter Packs to be installed all at once. But then you'd have one ReadMe, with the dependencies for all of the Stages in one, which could be quite chaotic. Or, each mini-pack could have been uploaded seperately, but that would be chaos as well. Zips within zips seems to be the best option, groping the lots from each stage together in one zip. Obviously you'll need to see plenty of Stage 9 buildings before you have to worry so much about Stage 15's, which gives you time to sort out the dependencies.
A lot of the dependencies are in Prop Packs available on the LEX. But there were also a lot of really great looking buildings on the STEX that screamed to be CAMified, but the original creator was either unavailable, or unwilling to give permission to have a Prop Pack made. So the original file remains a dependency, respecting the original creator's intellectual property rights, and still using the buildings for new lots.
All files named "Essentials" should remain in your root Plugins folder, where they are installed (by default as least). This prevents datpacking, and messing up the files. If you're using the -UserDir options, its best to still have a root folder for all of these files.
And finally... The CAM Essentials had nothing to do with SG's lots. I believe you are trapped in a Cleanitol Loop. (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FMonkeys%2Fthkhi3n.gif&hash=fe32bb9937fa92f6d37ed5367fa6f2d000a6d371)
Since the updated SG Education lots have the same filenames as the originals, the file only needs to be ran once to remove the old ones, before installing the new.

And I can speed up the skyscrapers. (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FMonkeys%2Fthyociexp73.gif&hash=e4a48151b11379fe9dca9d199b241604611f9ac7)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 06, 2008, 06:18:32 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on May 06, 2008, 05:29:43 AM
That was because we were not allowed to pack models into packs for the LEX.This is the result of a recent removal of all SG lots from the PLEX.
This about the STEX vs. LEX vs PLEx I understand, but I found links to BSC, CP & CD prop-packs styill pointing to the STEX and found that odd, especially that those - indeed, RJ - starter packs came from the LEX, and BSC has done one heck of a job repacking most of its dependencies. Ergo the surprise.

About SG - all his stuff, including that missing Herbal Factory, is now on the LEX, ja??

RJ: My experiences are probably related to applying CAM to an existing region - I had hoped it would help with a farming problem I have. But my urban centers are getting the skyscrapers referenced by the starter packs en masse, yet not as CAM lots (the counters are not yet available), especially in the C$$ sector. And urban sprawl is not something I would want, thus I guess CAM won't be for me, unless you can have just I-CAM, and remove all the C-stuff. Residentials don't seem to be affected.. ()what()

XXDITA: Since you mentioned dependencies - I've been careful to get all the listed dependencies for NDEX lots that needed to be downloaded for the C$$ and C$$$ starter pack. Yet it is right there where I get our nifty brown parcels, and always on the growables, never on the plopped versions. And yes, speeding up the skyscrapers is just a matter of radical ordinances. And it is kind of strange to think that someone would not want to be on the LEX - what's this world coming to, I ask..??  :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 06, 2008, 06:36:32 AM
If you let us know which lots you're getting the brown boxes on, we may be able to help better.
But it sounds like your region is at roughly Stage 8, and you've left the original unCAMified lots in place when installing dependencies. For CAMeLot dependencies found on other sites, you should only keep the sc4model files. New lots and building desc files are included in the CAM Starter Packs.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 06, 2008, 06:54:24 AM
QuoteThis about the STEX vs. LEX vs PLEx I understand, but I found links to BSC, CP & CD prop-packs styill pointing to the STEX and found that odd, especially that those - indeed, RJ - starter packs came from the LEX, and BSC has done one heck of a job repacking most of its dependencies. Ergo the surprise.

The starter packs were made and uploaded in July last year when the links were correct. At that stage some of the BSC/SG/CP packs had not been uploaded to the LEX. Do you expect me to redo all the Readmes every time there has been a change or that some packs have been moved to the LEX? There is a Dependency List available here with links to all packs - not just BSC ones -  and there is a pinned thread at the start of this forum with links to the models for the buildings. Surely that is enough.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: snorrelli on May 06, 2008, 08:34:39 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on May 06, 2008, 06:54:24 AM
Do you expect me to redo all the Readmes every time there has been a change or that some packs have been moved to the LEX?

Hell no! That would only allow people to find the damned things themselves when they could just be posting questions on the forums instead!  :D $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 06, 2008, 10:19:19 AM
Quote from: BarbyW on May 06, 2008, 06:54:24 AM
The starter packs were made and uploaded in July last year when the links were correct. At that stage some of the BSC/SG/CP packs had not been uploaded to the LEX. Do you expect me to redo all the Readmes every time there has been a change or that some packs have been moved to the LEX? There is a Dependency List available here with links to all packs - not just BSC ones -  and there is a pinned thread at the start of this forum with links to the models for the buildings. Surely that is enough.
No, BarbyW - I do not, never have, never will, expect you to do anything of that sort. But surely one may ask? Not everyone knows everything, and those who think they do tend to delude themselves. Who knows, maybe someone else in the BSC Team will one day think of updating links that are no longer valid, maybe for no other reason than them being proud to work with such a team. Actually, to be quite honest, I do not expect anything of or from you, mademoiselle!

XXDita: The one I just caught is called the Brenntia Building; I've only had it since I've installed the starter lots. It is possible that it requires one of the missing link items (see pic). There were two or three others, but I cannot recall their names and at the time I simply demolished the lots.
Thanks for taking the time.



Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 06, 2008, 11:02:47 AM
The lot you show above is not a CAMelot but one of a set - BLS ITS Georgian Terraces BSC  (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1395) - that I made from ILL_Tonkso's prop pack. The lots range from stage 6 to stage 8 depending on the lot size and the one you show above appears to be the stage 6 4x3 although it is incorrectory oriented. The dependencies are all correctly linked in the lot description box and in the Readme so how that has happened is somewhat of a mystery but you are missing the model which is in NDEX ITS MEGA Props Vol01 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=661)
Of course with regards to the outdated links anyone could offer to do some updating.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 02:25:16 AM
Downloaded the NDEX props again, because I had them, but with a different date/time stamp. Maybe my original got corrupted during a recent back-up/retore operation. Thanks for the link, BarbyW.

Now for an entirely different question: I've just had a look at what's available as CAM farms and residentials. The odd thing about the farms is that they all say they won't grow without CAM but I had quite a few of them (stage 6, I think) before I even installed CAM. But it's the residentials that convinced me that CAM is not for me - massive uglyness reminiscient of post-war Germany I'd rather not have. This begs the question: can CAM be savely removed without impacting the region too much? Because some of the recently added skyscrapers have already grown, but since the CAM counter's are not yet available, I presume they will work without CAM. Is this presumtion correct?

Thanks, folks.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 07, 2008, 02:44:46 AM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 02:25:16 AM
Now for an entirely different question: I've just had a look at what's available as CAM farms and residentials. The odd thing about the farms is that they all say they won't grow without CAM but I had quite a few of them (stage 6, I think) before I even installed CAM.

In that case you've got the pre-CAM versions in your plugins as well.
Any farms of stage 4 or higher won't grow without the CAM.


Quote from: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 02:25:16 AM
But it's the residentials that convinced me that CAM is not for me - massive uglyness reminiscient of post-war Germany I'd rather not have.

That is of course dependent on which custom buildings you've downloaded and installed.
You do not have to install all CAMeLots that are available... especially not if you don't like them... ::)

From what you're telling, it seems like your R§ demand is high.
You might consider establishing a neighbouring low-wealth city where they could reside.


Quote from: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 02:25:16 AM
This begs the question: can CAM be savely removed without impacting the region too much? Because some of the recently added skyscrapers have already grown, but since the CAM counter's are not yet available, I presume they will work without CAM. Is this presumtion correct?

Even if CAMeLots would already have started to grow, you can always take out the CAM.
Anything of growth stage 8 and above would of course not upgrade anymore, but they would still be functional.

However, removing the CAM won't relieve your need for R§ residents.
All your industries and commercial services will still employ mostly R§.
Thus, you should still consider establishing that low-wealth city!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 03:50:37 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 07, 2008, 02:44:46 AM
From what you're telling, it seems like your R§ demand is high.
You might consider establishing a neighbouring low-wealth city where they could reside.
What I've got thus far is altogether puzzeling. the newly installed CAM C$$ are appearing in nigh every city, except for the rural communities. I've zoned for all three residentials (and have thus far no CAM R$/R$$/R$$$ installed). Of the C$ starter pack I've installed 2/3 thus far, because the installation process is lengthy, what with all the dependencies.
And since zoning only takes into account density, my low density areas are always, always populated by "fat cats" & their villas in no time at all. Below is a typical development (approx. 20 years). It's largely and industrial town with high-density & medium density commercial zones. The low density residential (villas!) is off-screen to the south. So, where did I go wrong?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi283.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk289%2FDocRorlach%2FMitfordEast-Dec5191210155727.jpg&hash=72e8a4ad2e9f8b31a973ba76301c94e29e8fb367)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 07, 2008, 04:16:52 AM
Seems like most buildings youv'e got growing so far are indeed in-game Maxis ones.
And they certainly grow without the CAM as well... ::)

Maybe you'd need some more custom CAMeLots to give them competition...
Have you installed any R§ CAMeLots?

Would you be able to take a snapshot of either the CAMeLot Counter's query or the Census Repository Facility's query?
Just in order to verify your regional R/C/I capacities (which set the thresholds for the different growth stages).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 08:22:45 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 07, 2008, 04:16:52 AM
Seems like most buildings youv'e got growing so far are indeed in-game Maxis ones.
And they certainly grow without the CAM as well... ::)

Maybe you'd need some more custom CAMeLots to give them competition...
Have you installed any R§ CAMeLots?

Would you be able to take a snapshot of either the CAMeLot Counter's query or the Census Repository Facility's query?
Just in order to verify your regional R/C/I capacities (which set the thresholds for the different growth stages).
Here's the census for that city:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi283.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk289%2FDocRorlach%2FCensusforMitfordEast.jpg&hash=b22b427f010775cc03131183a590c1e1daf721e3)
As I said, some of the towers only appeared after I installed CAM and the starter packs, like the Diamond Center in the top centre quadrant in the previous pic. There are a few others from Dusktrooper, but I don't think I've reached the right stage for them because the CAM counters are still inactive.
Thanks
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 07, 2008, 09:43:16 AM
Your regional capacities are definitely large enough to enable most growth stages.
Currently you should have the following probabilities of growing different residential and commercial stages:


  RCI 
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
Stage
  Type 
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
 
R§§§
1 %
2 %
2 %
4 %
7 %
13 %
16 %
15 %
14 %
12 %
9 %
4 %
1 %
R§§
1 %
1 %
2 %
4 %
7 %
12 %
14 %
14 %
14 %
13 %
10 %
6 %
2 %
1 %
1 %
2 %
4 %
7 %
12 %
14 %
14 %
14 %
13 %
10 %
6 %
2 %
 
CS§§§
22 %
12 %
10 %
9 %
8 %
7 %
7 %
6 %
5 %
4 %
3 %
3 %
2 %
2 %
CS§§
20 %
11 %
10 %
9 %
8 %
7 %
7 %
6 %
5 %
4 %
4 %
3 %
3 %
2 %
1 %
CS§
16 %
11 %
10 %
9 %
8 %
7 %
7 %
6 %
5 %
5 %
4 %
4 %
3 %
3 %
2 %
 
CO§§§
1 %
1 %
2 %
3 %
6 %
10 %
12 %
13 %
13 %
12 %
11 %
8 %
6 %
2 %
CO§§
1 %
1 %
2 %
3 %
5 %
9 %
11 %
12 %
13 %
12 %
11 %
8 %
7 %
4 %
1 %




What type of building is the Diamond Center? If it's a CAMeLot, it can be:
   1. Stage 14 R§§
   2. Stage 11 R§§§
   3. Stage 11 CO§§
   4. Stage 14 CS§§§

Only the first one, R§§, is currently unavailable for you, as R§§ hasn't reached the threshold for stage 14 yet.
It can of course also be a Stage 8 CO§§§ if you've left DuskTrooper's original lot in your plugins.

Looking at your demand figures, you shouldn't have any problems getting more CAMeLots to grow.
However, with 373,428 vacant jobs in the region, you should definitely provide more residential zones.

You've also hit the High Tech CAP...
Hover with your mouse above the IH 100% and you'll get some suggestions for IHT CAP relievers.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 10:07:11 AM
Thanks, RJ, I will definitely follow your suggestions. Because I am beginning tohave real problems with this massive growth. Buildings rise to unprecedented heights real quick, and delapidate just as quick: CO$$$/CS$$$ never have enough employees, R$$$ never have enough jobs, and airports decline so fast, I can barely keep up. And to cap it all: The growable golden bank now shows up with an empty lot despite having grown elsewhere, in other cities, without a hitch(see pic).
Ask for Dusktrooper's buildings - I never had any until I've installed the starter packs - I don't like the idea of plopping massive edifices, not even as landmarks. So, the puzzle continues. I just hope I can solve all this without having to restart the entire region from scratch (12 cities thus far, 750,000 Sims).. ()sad()
I also post the Diamond Centre, because the stats are beginning to blurr before my (delapidated) eyes. You may notice the two other buildings by DT on the left, despite full employment, they're going down the tube, rather fast..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 07, 2008, 10:23:39 AM
It seems to me that you have kept the original lots from the NDEX buildings you have downloaded as the Golden Bank doesn't have a CAMelot query showing. When you collected all the NDEX buildings from the STEX you should only have kept the models and not the lots. As it is growing on an empty lot you would appear to have kept not only the original growable but also the ploppable lot. This Diamond Centre is also not the CAMelot but the original as it has the NDEX query.

This is from one of the main pinned CAM threads in this forum:
QuoteIf the Model File is included in a previously uploaded lot (on STEX or a Japanese site), you only need the file that contains the batted model from that upload. Normally this is a SC4Model file, but in some cases it might be a DAT file. In no cases will you need any SC4Lot files, SC4Desc files or custom queries contained in the original upload, or any dependencies mentioned for that upload.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 07, 2008, 11:18:00 AM
The following line is extracted from Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=907.0)

Quote from: RippleJet on April 02, 2007, 01:41:11 PM

Building Exemplar Name     
Jobs
   Container file where Building Exemplar can be found     Uploaded by
Golden Bank HQ
2000
   CO$$$golden_bank_4d707fb9.SC4Lotoneil_1

To get rid of all such landmarks growing on empty lots, download and execute the Cleanitol file that's attached to the first post in that thread.

That is clearly also a SC4Lot file that is pre-CAM and which shouldn't have ended up in your plugins folder... $%Grinno$%


Another line in the same post that Barby quoted from states:

Quote from: RippleJet on August 14, 2007, 03:59:28 PM
If you have old non-CAMpatible lots that are using models included in these starter packs, you can use the CAM Remove Lots BSC Cleanitol (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=963) to remove them.


Maybe you should download that Cleanitol file as well and make sure you get rid of all pre-CAM lots... ::)

The problem with the stage 8 Diamond Center you've got, is that it has too high a capacity for being a stage 8.
Those badly modded pre-CAM skyscrapers easily become weeds due to the high occupancy.

Besides, they will effectively block further development of that particular lot, since they often have a higher population density than corresponding stage 9-13 lots.

If you do not want high-rises to appear, and do not want buildings to upgrade too soon, why do you zone for high density?
Keep the zoned density low or medium in the bulk of your region, and zone high density only in your CBD. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 12:05:31 PM
Am beginnign to see where the problem lies (with me) but now what do I do a bout it, short of restarting the entire region. If I clean out the errant lots, I must surely endup with a lot of brown boxes. What irks me here is the fact that I did not, repeat, did not have any of the lots in question until I installed the starter kits. The only problem prior to that was a greenish NDEX tower, called NDEX_DAT.. or some such, and that usually gets solved with a rezoning.

The entire affair gets way to complicated - seeking out to keep models but not DESC's or UI's, doing that but not that - it actually starts becoming work, something a lazy sod like myself tries hard to avoid.

Since the large lots will have to go, zoning for medium density will not satisfy the demand the industries and residentials have built up thus the entire balance will probably become skewed. I guess, that a restart is the only solution. What a mess I made of things..

Thanks for explaining it all, RJ
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 07, 2008, 12:12:53 PM
If you remove the lots using the Cleanitol file that is referred to in the quote I made, you will not end up with brown boxes. You only get brown boxes when you remove the models and the Cleanitol will only remove the lots. You should bulldoze all these errant lots and see how that affects things as the lots are all badly modded and will cause problems such as you are experiencing.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 07, 2008, 05:05:20 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on May 07, 2008, 12:12:53 PM
If you remove the lots using the Cleanitol file that is referred to in the quote I made, you will not end up with brown boxes. You only get brown boxes when you remove the models and the Cleanitol will only remove the lots. You should bulldoze all these errant lots and see how that affects things as the lots are all badly modded and will cause problems such as you are experiencing.

Thanks, BarbyW, I'll go for that. Meanwhile another, perhaps strange question occured to me - although I think I know the answer:  is it actually possible to swirch all of this relation between jobs and stuff off? My main interest is to build towns and cities for their looks, not for their economic relationships. This may at first sound like a dumb question, but I wonder if it is possible.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 07, 2008, 07:09:22 PM
The best way to have your cities look exactly how you want is to only have the files in your Plugins that fits your playing style, or to select which plugins are used for each city with Start Up Manager. There's not really a way to turn the game simulator off, but you could always use cheats to take care of any specific issues that you don't care to focus on as a mayor.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 11, 2008, 08:25:39 AM
CAM Residentials: Anyone know where I can find DuskTrooper's Evil Vanadium HQ? The link in the residential starter pack points to an invalid file, and a search for DT's lots produced nothing as ST seems to be down with the flu..  ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 11, 2008, 08:39:20 AM
I believe I corrected the link for the Cleanitols for Free thread, but of course no way to be certain until the STEX is back up again.
The link to that thread is in my signature.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 11, 2008, 08:50:44 AM
Quote from: xxdita on May 11, 2008, 08:39:20 AM
I believe I corrected the link for the Cleanitols for Free thread, but of course no way to be certain until the STEX is back up again.
The link to that thread is in my signature.
Thanks - it was only later I noticed that ST/STEX are down. I'll copy & paste & create the CT file, though, I'm sure I'm missing other stuff this file may well resolve. The hunt goes on..  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Hahayoudied on May 11, 2008, 09:58:04 AM
I am sorry if I made this tread in the wrong place. I just downloaded CAM. When I read the README document, it had a link to to a manual to show how to correctly install and use CAM with an existing region. However, when I clicked on the link, I get this error that says the manual doesn't exist.How do I use CAM with an existing region without causing any unwanted changes?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on May 11, 2008, 11:12:24 AM
It's very easy.. you type "Camelot" into the search.. you  get some entries.. you scan down a few lines and WOW.. there's an entire section called "Colossus Addon Mod" .. you click that section and see.. WOW AGAIN!!! there are like a page of cool SECTIONS on Camelot .. you glance down and WOW AGAIN!!! there is one called "CAMELOT . WELCOME and manual + Downloads".. now you say.. "why do something so silly as look?".. well

1. You get an immediate answer.. takes like 2 minutes
2. You don't start another thread that is already WELL COVERED
3. You don't let ppl think.. "huh? who is this guy?"

Happy Cam'ing   ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: M4346 on May 11, 2008, 12:12:38 PM
Quote from: Hahayoudied on May 11, 2008, 09:58:04 AMHow do I use CAM with an existing region without causing any unwanted changes?

It is suggested that you start a new region with the CAM, not because they try to be funny or sadistic, but because it was found that it is detrimental and would cause more unwanted changes and undesirable consequences if you use it with an existing region in which the demand and all those other complicated simulators have run.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but as the README suggests, do not use it on an existing region that has considerable development.

Unless someone else would like to go against what I've just said. :)

Happy CAM'ing!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 11, 2008, 01:41:53 PM
Quote from: Hahayoudied on May 11, 2008, 09:58:04 AM
When I read the README document, it had a link to to a manual to show how to correctly install and use CAM with an existing region. However, when I clicked on the link, I get this error that says the manual doesn't exist.

I'm not sure which link didn't work for you... :-\
As far as I know, the manual is still available here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0

It is also included in the installer, and after installation it can be found under the Start menu -> BSC -> CAM
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on May 19, 2008, 04:19:41 PM
I've used CAM in a pre-existing region with significant development over many tiles, and I didn't have any real problems.  In fact, I thought my cities ran a lot better after I did this.

I should mention that I installed CAM onto an essentially vanilla SC4 Deluxe installation, with NAM being my only previous download of note.  I think one reason why I had no real problems was that I was working with the original SC4 building set, and so I didn't have to worry about overly large buildings.

Later, I built a region from scratch using CAM, and I couldn't tell any difference between the way that one performed and the way my original, converted region did.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 20, 2008, 09:51:28 AM
I'm back with another thread!  ;D

After all the downloading, simcity 4 runs more slow than before. Does anyone else have that problem? Believe me when I say that I have a good enought computer, and that before I installed CAM, the medium cities were runnign fien. Now, they njeed much time to load, and especially the railroad takes a lot of time to make.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 20, 2008, 10:45:45 AM
This has little to do with CAM itself, and more to do with all of the extra custom content that's available for it, which it would seem you've downloaded quite a bit of apparently.
The more custom content you have installed in your plugins folder, the longer it takes to load the game, and then the cities, and then even your landmark and other menus.
You should look into DatPacker, available on the LEX. Another option is to weed out some of the plugins you don't use.

On the hardware side of things, it never hurts to max out your computer's RAM. And if you're on Windows Vista, a USB Flash Drive can be used with ReadyBoost to speed up your computer's performance even more.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 20, 2008, 11:49:59 AM
Quote from: xxdita on May 20, 2008, 10:45:45 AM
This has little to do with CAM itself, and more to do with all of the extra custom content that's available for it, which it would seem you've downloaded quite a bit of apparently.
The more custom content you have installed in your plugins folder, the longer it takes to load the game, and then the cities, and then even your landmark and other menus.
You should look into DatPacker, available on the LEX. Another option is to weed out some of the plugins you don't use.

On the hardware side of things, it never hurts to max out your computer's RAM. And if you're on Windows Vista, a USB Flash Drive can be used with ReadyBoost to speed up your computer's performance even more.

Good tip, that Flash drive/ReadyBoost thingy. But before anyone rushes out to buy just any old stick, here's a bit of advice: check the ReadyBoost files on Vista (online/offline) first: not every USB stick can be used. Don't bother with less than 2GB, in fact go and get 4GB. I have several, and RB only recognizes thus far one type -the Ultra II from SanDisk which cost a pretty penny. Which "stcik" it wil wortk with will also depend n your card reader/USB port - no use with externals, it must be an internal on the bus.

Alternatively, however, - and this goes for XP users, too - you can simply move the larger pagesys to a Flash Drive, then your HD won;t be accessed as much generally, and a lot of the humdrum but memory consuming tasks will get done faster. And if you really want top performance (and have money to burn) install SC4 on a Samsung 32GB solid-state disk  ::). Still not exactly lightning fast, but about 50% speed & load improvement with a 3.2gb dat-packed folder (I got to test one - had to give it back, though  :'(

Oh, yeah, builder: I did not see any mention of DAT PAcker in your post. If you don't do it, any plug-ins folder over 1.8gb will run into simple bottlenecks, especially on ATA drives.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 21, 2008, 01:34:14 AM
I was thinking of buying another 4 GB of RAM. I already have 2, but it doesn't seem to be enough. One of my friends bought a new computer and with it, 8 GB of RAM. It costed about 1500 norwegian crowns. That isn't much for 8 GB of RAM. I don't think I will go for 8, but 6 will do just fine, and I also have Vista, so the computer will actually use all the RAM, because XP have a limit, or something.

I have the Datpacker, and it is working fine, but is there something else out there?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 21, 2008, 02:23:04 AM
Quote from: builder on May 21, 2008, 01:34:14 AM
I was thinking of buying another 4 GB of RAM. I already have 2, but it doesn't seem to be enough. One of my friends bought a new computer and with it, 8 GB of RAM. It costed about 1500 norwegian crowns. That isn't much for 8 GB of RAM. I don't think I will go for 8, but 6 will do just fine, and I also have Vista, so the computer will actually use all the RAM, because XP have a limit, or something.

I have the Datpacker, and it is working fine, but is there something else out there?
I run CAM-ified SC4 on Vista with a 3.2gb dat-packed plug-in folder on 2GB RAM perfectly fine; I think your problem lies elsewhere. If your vista OS (no apps, no explorer running) uses more than 48% of your memory then something else is wrong. Do you have a dual core CPU? If you do, then there is your problem: SC4 does not like that and needs to be restrained to a single core (0). Before I go into the details of that let me know if this is indeed the problem.

And no, to my knowledge all the external SC4 tools are here, on the LEX, and there's only one DAT-Packer.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 21, 2008, 05:03:34 AM
Oh, I have Dual core. But SC4 worked fine, before I downloaded and installed all the CAM files. And I am gonna buy the extra RAM anyways, so..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 21, 2008, 05:23:01 AM
Quote from: builder on May 21, 2008, 05:03:34 AM
Oh, I have Dual core. But SC4 worked fine, before I downloaded and installed all the CAM files. And I am gonna buy the extra RAM anyways, so..
Go ahead - it's your money  $%Grinno$%

As for the dual core, here's a suggestion I found elsewhere and that eliminated all lag and all crashes from my gameplay. Two things need to be done and I strongly urge you to make a backup copy of the SC4 EXE first - just in case:
1) the EXE needs to be repacked using the ImageCFG tool found here (http://www.robpol86.com/pages/imagecfg.php). The instructions on the page are bit terse, but you need to bear in mind that if the path to your exe contains any spaces, then it needs to be enclosed by a parenthesis (""). The syntax thus is, for example, imagecfg -a 0x1 "C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" - this must be run in the DOS window!
This is perfectly safe to do - I've done it and am extremely pleased by the improvements.

2) next you need to change the short-cut you use for starting the game: depending on where your game is installed you need to change the path in my example accordingly. C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /c START "high priority sc4" /high "D:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe"
The red stuff is important, the remainder is your game's path.
This last one changes the way Vista handles SC4 by putting only the most essential OS operations ahead of SC4.
One final thing I switched of was the indexing service of Vista: it tends to re-index even stuff long found and does so every time you install something into your plug-ins. Since this happens in background it is extremely memory consuming. Switching it off - after you defragged your hard disk, only means that a search in explorer takes a bit longer - no biggy seeing how Vista's search function pretty much sucks.

Hope this helps.

Edit: oops (big OOPS) forgot to include the exe in item 1, and forgot to mention the D|OS window - Thanks SC4Boy
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on May 21, 2008, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 21, 2008, 05:23:01 AM

1) the EXE needs to be repacked using the ImageCFG tool found here (http://www.robpol86.com/pages/imagecfg.php). The instructions on the page are bit terse, but you need to bear in mind that if the path to your exe contains any spaces, then it needs to be enclosed by a parenthesis (""). The syntax thus is, for example, imagecfg -a 0x1 "C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps"
This is perfectly safe to do - I've done it and am extremely pleased by the improvements.

I believe the .exe has to be part of that path (if my memory serves correctly..its been a long time since I used it.. I just ran it in the command window instead of using that path)

QuoteThis last one changes the way Vista handles SC4 by putting only the most essential OS operations ahead of SC4.
One final thing I switched of was the indexing service of Vista: it tends to re-index even stuff long found and does so every time you install something into your plug-ins. Since this happens in background it is extremely memory consuming. Switching it off - after you defragged your hard disk, only means that a search in explorer takes a bit longer - no biggy seeing how Vista's search function pretty much sucks.

Indexing is generally superfluous on all op systems (and it still seems to insist on being "on" by default).. I turn that off on every op sys install I do.. unless you have intensive word processing, or maybe database, etc (usually business apps) on your pc, it definitely isn't needed
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 21, 2008, 09:11:22 AM
Oh, and one last thing: Is there something that removes the logos of EA and Maxis, each time I launch the game? I can't wait to click my way through to get to the game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 21, 2008, 09:13:31 AM
-intro:off

For more information, check Windowed Mode, No Intro and all the other such choices (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3683.0) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 21, 2008, 09:23:03 AM
Also, HandsOn, didn't quite understand what I have to do. And the instructions on that page is terse. Wow, but I wan't to do it, so if you could explain it in a little more simple way, I would be grateful.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 22, 2008, 03:25:45 AM
Ok, ok, I tried to do what HandsOn posted. I downloaded the ImageCFG and went to System32. That is where everything stopped. Don't forget that I have Vista, and I didn't see any file or folder which was named "dllcache". What will I do? If anyone have Vista, because I think it is because of Vista, then can someone find the file or folder that has a different name, but is the same file or folder like in XP.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 22, 2008, 03:30:00 AM
HandsOn also has Vista, so I'm fairly sure those are the directions he gave you.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 22, 2008, 03:47:14 AM
Quote from: builder on May 22, 2008, 03:25:45 AM
Ok, ok, I tried to do what HandsOn posted. I downloaded the ImageCFG and went to System32. That is where everything stopped. Don't forget that I have Vista, and I didn't see any file or folder which was named "dllcache". What will I do? If anyone have Vista, because I think it is because of Vista, then can someone find the file or folder that has a different name, but is the same file or folder like in XP.
I've got Vista, too, and no problems. Let's run through it again, shall we..?

Your DOS window should look something like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi283.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk289%2FDocRorlach%2FEmpire22-05-2008_0001.jpg&hash=b04f693153fbf4aa5992f4f79d83f9d83afae603)

ImageCfg will run its course and tell you when its done; close the DOS window by typing EXIT and hit Enter. Now all you have to do is to change your shortcut to SC4 the way I outline previously.


Just saw you're in Norway - that ain't too far to call, thus you can email me first, I'll give you my number, and you can then call me and I'll talk you through it..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on May 22, 2008, 09:41:07 AM
If i can make a suggestion, increase the distance that all building types (industries, commercial, residential) need to grow bigger stages, needing a fire department too close. Its not logical that u need to put a fire department every 2 blocks for buildings to grow.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 22, 2008, 09:49:19 AM
Quote from: gabrielbyrnei on May 22, 2008, 09:41:07 AM
If i can make a suggestion, increase the distance that all building types (industries, commercial, residential) need to grow bigger stages, needing a fire department too close. Its not logical that u need to put a fire department every 2 blocks for buildings to grow.
Huh? Who? Where?  ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 22, 2008, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: gabrielbyrnei on May 22, 2008, 09:41:07 AM
If i can make a suggestion, increase the distance that all building types (industries, commercial, residential) need to grow bigger stages, needing a fire department too close. Its not logical that u need to put a fire department every 2 blocks for buildings to grow.

You must have misunderstood something here, Gabriel...

Here's a quote explaining how the fire CAPs are set in CAM:

Quote from: RippleJet on August 09, 2007, 02:49:01 PM
The fire cap means that, in order to grow past the stage set, the lot has to be within the coverage area of a fire station.


RCI       
      Fire
      Max.
Type     
      Cap
      Stage
R$
15   
R$$
12 
15   
R$$$
15   
CS$
15   
CS$$
15   
CS$$$
12 
15   
CO$$
15   
CO$$$
12 
15   
I-R
7   
I-D
10   
I-M
10   
I-HT
10   


The picture below is an early one from alpha testing with Dirty Industry.
The growth stage of each lot is clearly shown.
In this testing the fire CAP for Dirty Industry was set at 10.

You can see the fire station to the right in this picture, as well as the red coverage circle.
Only lots that were at least partly inside the circle could grow past stage 10.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F9716%2Fstages915id2qq0.jpg&hash=faa6608dc479d0f56d43729ba5475cfa75c3a1e6)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 22, 2008, 02:03:17 PM
If you want to call me, then I wonder if you still live with your parents, because it would be a really awkward situation if your mom picks up the phone, and I ask if HandsOn is at home. Very weird.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 22, 2008, 04:00:42 PM
Quote from: builder on May 22, 2008, 02:03:17 PM
If you want to call me, then I wonder if you still live with your parents, because it would be a really awkward situation if your mom picks up the phone, and I ask if HandsOn is at home. Very weird.
Let's just say if my mother was still alive, she'd be the oldest woman on the planet by far  :P
Besides, if there was anyone here, they'd know my handle  ::)

Not to worry, call any time..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 23, 2008, 01:57:39 AM
Oh, well, yeah, I can call you.

Back to the point, where should I make the downloads folder, because I already have a folder that has the name downloads, and if I try to make another folder the computer asks me if I want to replace the original folder.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 23, 2008, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: builder on May 23, 2008, 01:57:39 AM
Oh, well, yeah, I can call you.

Back to the point, where should I make the downloads folder, because I already have a folder that has the name downloads, and if I try to make another folder the computer asks me if I want to replace the original folder.
Builder - you don't HAVE to make one, you can use any folder you like - Downloads was wimply an example I used. Where ever you download the ImageCfg to, that's where you ought to run it
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 23, 2008, 02:10:09 AM
Well, see, the ImageCfg doesn't work. Nothing happens when I click on the program.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 23, 2008, 02:12:25 AM
Quote from: builder on May 23, 2008, 02:10:09 AM
Well, see, the ImageCfg doesn't work. Nothing happens when I click on the program.
Builder - you have to first read what I wrote a couple of messages back (the one with the DOS window screenshot - on page 49) - this is not a clickabble program but one that needs to be run - as I described it - on a commandline in a DOS window! Please read the message first.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 23, 2008, 03:24:44 AM
Well I tried that, and that didn't work. Maybe I just have to try again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 02:52:51 AM
Uhh, there was a blank lot something download. I can't remember the entire name, but I know it exists. I found it somewhere here on the forum, but I can't remember exactly where. If anyone could make a link, I woulf be thankful.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 03:08:44 AM
Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=907.0)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 03:30:06 AM
Thank you  :thumbsup: But Oh my God, I just looked into the downloads on my computer for SC4, and saw that I actually don't have the datpacker! Can you please send me a link to download that file. I can now remember that last time I tried to download it, there was something wrong, and I couldn't download it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 03:34:06 AM
http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=26  ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 03:35:00 AM
I read through the page, and saw that this wans't my issue. My issue is somehat similar, but not entirely the same. My issue is that buildings, be it growable landmarks or normal buildings, sometimes aren't jsut there, and instead, a plaza-like, or paved area is in its stead. I really wnat my buildigns to show, and this bugs me.

And thanks for the link to the Dat Packer  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 03:40:26 AM
Quote from: builder on May 24, 2008, 03:35:00 AM
My issue is that buildings, be it growable landmarks or normal buildings, sometimes aren't jsut there, and instead, a plaza-like, or paved area is in its stead. I really wnat my buildigns to show, and this bugs me.

You mean like the middle one of the three lots in this picture? ::)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FScreenShot288.jpg&hash=09d07b0207b43773ff5b38ed788908c2b30de1d2)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 03:54:47 AM
Yes! That is exactly what I'm having an issue about. And to add to everything, almost half my buildings look like that. It is just annoying
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 03:57:13 AM
builder, that picture is from the thread called Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=907.0)... ::)

I suggest you go back to it and read it thoroughly, and download the Cleanitol file that's attached to the first post.
Before running the Cleanitol, you should bulldoze all such blank lots in your cities though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 05:40:44 AM
Oh, ok then.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 06:00:52 AM
Oh, and BTW, the intro:off thing doesn't work. It seems that I have to have saved in a specific region for it to work. Otherwise, the EA and Maxis logo appear as normal.


OK, quadruple post  ;D

Anyways, I have deleted some of the ploppables, apparently I missed some of them when I went through them the first time. Also, it appears that intro: off is only working sometimes. I don't know why, but I assume it might have to do with Vista. and I would aslo like you to watch this nice little video I saw a couple of hours ago  :P http://youtube.com/watch?v=fTrK4VQG93Y


builder, I merged two of your posts and moved one to the thread about Landmarks growing on empty lots.
Please modify your own post if you have more to add shortly after your previous post!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 06:29:51 AM
Quote from: builder on May 24, 2008, 06:00:52 AM
Also, it appears that intro: off is only working sometimes. I don't know why, but I assume it might have to do with Vista.

Where did you add the -intro:off ?
For the shortcut in the Start menu or for the shortcut on the desktop?
Are you starting the game from the same shortcut each time?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 09:25:56 AM
1) Yes I am.
2) Ok, I will modify instead of making new posts.
3) This is where I put the intro:off - "C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -Intro:off
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 24, 2008, 09:28:27 AM
That's the correct place - and if you only have one short-cut the introductory video (not the logo) should never come on.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 24, 2008, 09:48:56 AM
Ok.

You guys have helped me so much. I would still be wondering why I got brown boxes dotted all around my city if it weren't for you guys. Thank you very much  :thumbsup:  &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 22, 2008, 11:02:40 AM
You must have misunderstood something here, Gabriel...

Here's a quote explaining how the fire CAPs are set in CAM:


The picture below is an early one from alpha testing with Dirty Industry.
The growth stage of each lot is clearly shown.
In this testing the fire CAP for Dirty Industry was set at 10.

You can see the fire station to the right in this picture, as well as the red coverage circle.
Only lots that were at least partly inside the circle could grow past stage 10.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg329.imageshack.us%2Fimg329%2F9716%2Fstages915id2qq0.jpg&hash=faa6608dc479d0f56d43729ba5475cfa75c3a1e6)

So in that table what do those Numbers mean ? Blocks? Squares?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 11:46:55 AM
Well, i installed CAM but didnt understand the 1% that farms could provide in work, so what i want to do is somehow activate this option that is prompted while installing the CAM, is there a way of doing it or do i have to install again?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 12:03:12 PM
Download the MAC version of CAM (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1009).
That version contains all files without an installer.

Copy the file CAM_5%_R$$_Working_in_IR.dat into the folder a_CAM and you're done. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 11:38:11 AM
So in that table what do those Numbers mean ? Blocks? Squares?

Growth Stages, just as it is said:

Quote from: RippleJet on August 09, 2007, 02:49:01 PM
The fire cap means that, in order to grow past the stage set, the lot has to be within the coverage area of a fire station.

For instance, for I-D the Fire CAP is set at Growth Stage 5:


RCI       
      Fire
      Max.
Type     
      Cap
      Stage
I-D
10   

This means that Dirty Industrials cannot grow past stage 5 without being inside the coverage area of a fire station.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 01:52:40 PM
thanks !!!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 01:54:26 PM
yes i understood what the numbers in the ingame picture meant, i dont know what that number 5 mean for example, on the fire CAP.
Does it mean it needs to be 5 tiles from fire coverage???? (the red circle that appears around a fire station) or what ?



Edit: I have another question, ho do i lay the dragable GLR rails ??? When i choose it on the road menu and i click somewhere on the map, a GLR Rail piece gets popped, which doesent give me a chance of dragging it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2008, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 01:54:26 PM
yes i understood what the numbers in the ingame picture meant

You do?  :)

Quote from: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 01:54:26 PM
i dont know what that number 5 mean for example, on the fire CAP.

You don't?  &mmm

Those numbers are the same, they are both Growth Stages. :P
If the lot is within the fire station's coverage area (the red circle), it can grow to a higher stage than 5.
If the lot is outside the coverage circles of all your fire stations, it can grow up to stage 5, but not higher.

I do hope you understand what the growth stages are...

The bigger the building is, the higher its Growth Stage is.
Agricultural lots can be of Growth Stage 1-7 (in CAM, 1-3 in Rush Hour).
Other Industrial lots can be of Growth Stage 1-10 (in CAM, 1-3 in Rush Hour).
Residential and Commercial lots can be of Growth Stage 1-15 (in CAM, 1-8 in Rush Hour).

When starting a new region, only stage 1 grows (smallest buildings).
For each higher stage to grow your region needs to be bigger.


Quote from: gabrielbyrnei on May 24, 2008, 01:54:26 PM
Edit: I have another question, ho do i lay the dragable GLR rails ??? When i choose it on the road menu and i click somewhere on the map, a GLR Rail piece gets popped, which doesent give me a chance of dragging it.

The thing you plop is a starter piece.
From that you can drag elevated lightrail and it automatically transforms into GLR.
Please read the NAM manual, it's all explained in there.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: builder on May 25, 2008, 05:03:40 AM
Hey, do you need a police station to make industrial buildings grow to growth stage 10, or is it enough with only a fire station?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 25, 2008, 05:44:43 AM
There is no stage CAP with police stations, so no, you do not need a police station.
However, for I-HT crime is bad on desirability, so leaving out the police coverage might affect the development in other ways.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 26, 2008, 06:02:06 AM
I've finally got around to give CAM a test drive! And I must say that it is a greatest thing that ever happened to SC4!
The look of the city had changed dramatically to the better!
However I do have some questions... I'm sorry if those have been answered already, but it is very difficult to scan through the entire 51 pages of this thread and I tried but got lost...

So if someone would kindly take time to address them I would be grateful.

1. Adding/removing stuff


how to get rid of Coit tower it grows everywhere like a weed! I bulldoze it and it pops-up again and again and  again. The building is clearly not an office structure for one and also it is very "non-generic" to be in many places.  What should I do? Delete from CAM dat the lot configuration exemplar?

2. Farms


Pedriana!! Bl.dy Pedriana. I thought that with CAM there will be much more balanced farmland. But in my case in 70-80% of farms grows that monster! Even in just freshly stared farming community of 120 inhabitants in absolutely empty region(! ) 7 out of 8 farms are Pedrianas . It also seems to be totally independent on the size of the lot as well.

3. Transport stuff


CAM and NAM (good title for Eurovision song) how to put those two together. I mean the traffic Plug-ins. What is a recommended setup? I remember seeing somewhere sort of discussion on this subject but can't find it no more.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 26, 2008, 06:29:17 AM
1) Simply remove all of the Occupant Groups from the Coit Tower, in the CAM dat file. This will allow standing buildings to upgrade, and prevent any new instances.
2) Make sure you have plenty of CAM farms installed. You should see a decent variety.
3) All depends on your playing style, and how large a city your playing. Your best bet is to download the MAC version, and give each of the traffic simulators a spin. I prefer Simulator A, on Easy for most of my cities.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 26, 2008, 07:00:25 AM
2. Use the blocker for Maxis farms and make sure you have all the farm and field packs from the LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 26, 2008, 01:22:51 PM
Quote from: SimFox on May 26, 2008, 06:02:06 AM
how to get rid of Coit tower it grows everywhere like a weed! I bulldoze it and it pops-up again and again and  again. The building is clearly not an office structure for one and also it is very "non-generic" to be in many places.  What should I do? Delete from CAM dat the lot configuration exemplar?

A Coit Tower Blocker is attached to this post: :)
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1177.msg144484#msg144484


Quote from: xxdita on May 26, 2008, 06:29:17 AM
3) All depends on your playing style, and how large a city your playing. Your best bet is to download the MAC version, and give each of the traffic simulators a spin. I prefer Simulator A, on Easy for most of my cities.

Also, if you installed CAM after the latest NAM, you might have selected one of the traffic plugins included in CAM.
As these are installed in the folder z_CAM, they would supersede any pathfinding plugin selected when installing NAM.

Thus, make sure you delete the z_CAM folder to be sure the traffic plugin included in NAM is used.
The Cleanitol file included with the latest NAM removes any pathfinder installed with CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 26, 2008, 01:31:41 PM
I might, of course be wrong, but I don't think it's just the Coit Tower - in fact I hav'e seen a single one since I installed CAM. But around the time CAM is about to kick in, just before that Blue Platter really messes up the picture. Worse than Brussel Sprouts!

I know there are mods that block Maxis buildings effectively, but thus far I've only seen RJ's specific ones - are ther others, a collection, say, that would let you select which to block, which to permit?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on May 26, 2008, 09:25:09 PM
Quote2. Farms

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedriana!! Bl.dy Pedriana. I thought that with CAM there will be much more balanced farmland. But in my case in 70-80% of farms grows that monster! Even in just freshly stared farming community of 120 inhabitants in absolutely empty region(! ) 7 out of 8 farms are Pedrianas . It also seems to be totally independent on the size of the lot as well.

Pedriana's plants killer mod by Shadow Assassin is the one you want. Pedrianna's Plants is the only stage 3 Maxis farm. And it grows like a weed with or without the CAM. I use the Pedriana's plants killer as I don't like that particular building at all and you'll need to insure that the mod installs after the CAM if you want to use it. Perhaps in a ZZZ folder


And as others have advised, please download a bunch of other farms for variety.

You may recognize the following scenario. You will start a new region. Some stage one farms like the Maxis Pumpkin Acres will grow. then a few stage two farms will grow. Then finally stage three farms will grow 70% of the time. Very annoying if the only stage 3 farm you have is Pedirannas Plants. That was Rush Hour. I used to compensate and had a lhuge number of stage three farms  in my plugins for variety. But the CAM cam along and evened out the stages. So that you have a somewhat equal chance that a stage 1, 2, or 3 farm will grow. Plus other stages if you you like.

The key ( as others have said ) is to download some more farms. Using the CAM you'll get the full range (stages 1,2,&3) of farms available right from the beginning using the CAM whereas you won't when playing Rush Hour.

Hope this helps.




Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 07:01:58 AM
I would like to thank everybody for help and on a note, somewhat separate, would it be possible to display some additional info about the lot in a query window? Say the Pollution and consumption?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 27, 2008, 07:58:38 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 07:01:58 AM
I would like to thank everybody for help and on a note, somewhat separate, would it be possible to display some additional info about the lot in a query window? Say the Pollution and consumption?


CTRL+Alt+Shift pressed alltogether and over the lot will give you extra info.

Refer to this post - http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=365.msg146125#msg146125
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 10:00:58 AM
hm... :(
that marvelous Ctrl+Shif+Alt combo doesn't seem to work for me. It doesn however take me to the God mode. But when I use it with query tool and hover over the buildings NOTHING happens. Any idea what I may be doing wrong? Could it depend on the version of the dame (SC4+RH or SC4 DeLuxe?, country version?)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 27, 2008, 10:07:32 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 10:00:58 AM
hm... :(
that marvelous Ctrl+Shif+Alt combo doesn't seem to work for me. It doesn however take me to the God mode. But when I use it with query tool and hover over the buildings NOTHING happens. Any idea what I may be doing wrong? Could it depend on the version of the dame (SC4+RH or SC4 DeLuxe?, country version?)

Sorry I should have explain that better. Press query button "?" then with Ctrl+Alt+Shif pressed click over the lots and it should give you some extra info that a normal query should give. I think you don't even have to click the lots but just hover over them. It's well explained on Jondor's post linked above.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 10:23:13 AM
that is exactly what I did! but NOTHING happened. I still see same brief info on LOT when just hovering over (like with out holding down CTRL+ALT+SHIFT) and if i click on the lot/building I get standard query window, nothing of the sort shown in the shortcut thread. I tried it with  or without all/any plug-ins. Could it be so that it is some sort of side effect of some plug-in installed?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 27, 2008, 10:35:26 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 10:23:13 AM
that is exactly what I did! but NOTHING happened. I still see same brief info on LOT when just hovering over (like with out holding down CTRL+ALT+SHIFT) and if i click on the lot/building I get standard query window, nothing of the sort shown in the shortcut thread. I tried it with  or without all/any plug-ins. Could it be so that it is some sort of side effect of some plug-in installed?

Now that you mentioned, there is something that could make the difference, but I'm not able to test right now (at work). There is somewhere, released a while ago, a dll file called extra cheats or something, that activates some extra functions on the game. It might be it. ()what()

That file is refered on this post - http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2461.msg74319#msg74319
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 27, 2008, 11:02:37 AM
Hooraaay!!! :thumbsup:

that did the trick!

PS
Yes it works...
unfortunately the info it provides is anything but the standard LOT stats one expects to see. The numbers are all over the board. Two identical lots next to each other may show air pollution of 240 and 0!!! and same goes to all other numbers...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 27, 2008, 11:34:20 AM
Well, that's as far as I can have helped you. Further from that, maybe Ripplejet could give some extra info. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 27, 2008, 11:53:02 AM
I was suspecting this since SimGoober the other day said he didn't get the Ctrl-Shift-Alt query to function!

Great that we have it confirmed that it is part of Buggi's Cheat DLL! :thumbsup:

Here are some explanations to the properties shown:

1.  Capacity is the maximum capacity (as given in Capacity Satisfied)
2.  Power Consumed is as given in the building exemplar
3.  Water Consumed is as given in the building exemplar
4.  The Demand figures are probably the desirability of the tract(s) (4x4 tiles), which can be anything between 0 and 255
5.  Zoned should be obvious (# = low density, ## = medium density, ### = high density)
6.  Land Value is the number to the right of the colon, can be between 0 and 255.
7.  Alt is the altitude (250 m is normally sea level)
8.  Flam is the Flammability as given in the building exemplar.
9.  Pollution is not as given in the building exemplar.
     They are the actual pollution values in the tract(s) (4x4 tiles) that the building is standing on.
10. Trip Length might be interesting to check for residential buildings...
11. Jobs are the actual jobs (not capacity) this building currently offers.
     The order is §/§§/§§§, and a route query should show this amount of people commuting to it

I have not yet fully understood the percentages, nor the value in front of the colon for Land Value.

Regarding the air pollution, check the pollution map and see if there's a relevance to those differences in values.
A tract next to a busy road can have considerably higher air pollution values than a tract further away from the same road.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on May 27, 2008, 01:06:03 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 27, 2008, 11:53:02 AM
I was suspecting this since SimGoober the other day said he didn't get the Ctrl-Shift-Alt query to function!

Great that we have it confirmed that it is part of Buggi's Cheat DLL! :thumbsup:



I have no problem using Buggi's Cheat DLL and the Ctrl-Shift-Alt query to work together.
I always select the query first and check a building then use the cheat and I have no problem whatsoever  $%Grinno$%
(with an empty plugin folder or one filled to the gills  ;) )

:satisfied:
TTC
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 27, 2008, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 26, 2008, 01:31:41 PM
But around the time CAM is about to kick in, just before that Blue Platter really messes up the picture. Worse than Brussel Sprouts!

Here's a blocker for that Blue Platter Limited.
Just place it in your plugins folder to block it from growing.
It won't block those already there from functioning or upgrading.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cody426 on May 27, 2008, 04:11:45 PM
Being my first post I must say thank you to the members here who contribute to the game and the site.  Thank You!   &apls

I always enjoy a good day of lurking and have not had any problems finding answers/solutions to any of my issues as of yet.  I have been curious about something though;  I am running the CAM with no problems since August and it makes blending cities from rural to suburbs to skyscrapers amazingly more realistic.  But, I have a few (well, more than a few) buildings that are not considered "CAMpatible" and of course when installed they grow up out of place.  I know I can just plop them in areas they fit into but I would rather grow the entire city when it comes to RCI. 

So my question:  Is there an easy way to change the stage at which they grow?  It looks as though the X-tool would accomplish this but it seems it's not available yet.  I feel that I missed something in my hours of digging and am hoping someone could point me in the right direction on this.

Thanks All
-Cody
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 27, 2008, 06:15:08 PM
To do it properly would require the XTool, which isn't quite ready for release yet.
But, as long as you understand that the other stats of the building aren't quite right either, and can live with that as you're playing, you can easily change the stage that any building grows in with iLive's Reader, which is available on the LEX.
With Reader, open up the growable lot you want to change, click on the Exemplar for the lot (there may be 2 exemplars, the other being the desc). Then simply change the Growth Stage to the appropriate hex (0x01 to 0x0F).
How do you determine the appropriate Growth Stage? Well, since the modding isn't quite right, it probably doesn't have the correct number of jobs, but look at the jobs that it does have (you'll need to open up the desc file for this), how big the lot is, and then make it the same Stage as a CAMified building with a similar number of jobs. To have it count as a CAMeLot for tracking purposes, you'll need to also add in the appropriate Occupant Group (again in the building desc).
From there, it will be trial and error. If it grows too fast, try bumping up the Stage. If it doesn't grow at all, take it down one.
To help me stay organized, I've created a folder in my Plugins specifically for such lots, appropriately named "Waiting For XTool".

And though these lots are fine for personal use, as long as you know that there may be problems still, it's really not a good idea to try to upload them anywhere, as the unchanged stats can cause problems.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cody426 on May 27, 2008, 07:13:33 PM
xxdita - Thank You for the quick response!

  I like your idea of having a separate folder for the "to be xtooled" and am going to go ahead and do that wile I await the avalability of the xtool.  I have the reader and was a little overwhelmed by it when I first opened it but it seems pretty clear to me now.  Again thanks for the clear explanation of how this works, I think I will be able to figure this out rather easily now. 

-Cody     

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: High5Tower on May 27, 2008, 08:25:22 PM
Thank you xxdita for your little tutorial. I have 56 buildings in my stage 8 folder (Com. & Res.) that are just waiting to get into the CAM. I opened up Reader again and this might be do-able for me. At least I'll have fun trying. ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on May 27, 2008, 08:41:33 PM
use other CAM buildings as a guide. That has got to be the best idea since sliced bread.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mthdscrd on May 27, 2008, 08:58:57 PM
but i am having trouble finding it. I've got the basics, but dont understand a lot of the things tlked about in this forum
i.e.-the 'traffic simulator' and the 'workforce doubler' phenom.  further-does running CAM/NAM have anything to do with the fact that my population avoids my highways like the plague?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 27, 2008, 09:22:17 PM
The traffic simulator controls speed limits, road capacities, and other similar things for the game. Deciding which one to use can be tricky, and it all depends on your individual playing style, and how large your city is, or how large you want it to be.
The traffic simulators that were packaged with CAM 1.0 are now outdated, as JPlumbley and Mott, as well as others on the NAM team have done more intense research on the subject, and have created new files that are far more better suited to the game, whether Vanilla or CAM. I highly recommend that you download the MAC version of the latest NAM, so that you can check out each of the new traffic simulators, and decide which one is best for you.

The "workforce doubler phenom" is actually a slight glitch with CAM 1.0, which we're working on getting fixed for future versions. In the CAM file, there is an exemplar that, though it in theory "should" replace the one found in simcity_1.dat, it instead is added to the existing one, which doubles the Regional Residential Population, and Regional Workforce, as far as the game is concerned. Since the Regional Residential Population is what determines which stage of Residential buildings will grow, you'll see the residential zones sprouting up faster than Comm or Ind, forcing you to zone more of those, to provide enough jobs.

And as far as your highways go, Sims will only use it if that is the shortest route to take to get to their destination (work). So you may need to actually rethink your entire playing style, as is the case with any new mod you install. Try setting up your zones a little differently, to put the highways to use. And make sure that the highway actually leads somewhere worth going to.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 01:47:46 AM
xxdita:

You've answered my unasked question. When I installed Census repository I've imediatelly noticed all those extra people (illigal immigrants(?)) that are apparently living in the region. That was an easy task since I was building my first CAM city and ther couldn't possible be anybody outside of it.
I suppose that I guess the reason why CAM city grows so fast and so unhindered.

Speaking of traffic plug-ins, I though that there was something funny, cause my new CAM city just simply don't have any traffic problems at all! that is nice at first, but after a while (rather short one) gets boring. What would be great is to have a bit greater control of the mode of transportation that sims do actually use. - like for instance control over the mass transit ticket prices, or cost of car use( petrol prices(?)).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 02:01:38 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 01:47:46 AM
Speaking of traffic plug-ins, I though that there was something funny, cause my new CAM city just simply don't have any traffic problems at all! that is nice at first, but after a while (rather short one) gets boring.

Which traffic plugin did you select when installing NAM?
And do you have a folder named z_CAM, and is there something inside it?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 28, 2008, 04:42:55 AM
Strange, I've been doing test with the CAM and the new beta version, and on both, a "small" town of 250.000 people already have trafic problems. Some roads had to be upgraded to one way roads and I had to install subway to lighten the road trafic. All streets on the center of the town had to be upgraded to roads or one way roads. I have running through the middle of the town, a subway, train and bus lines. Some of the outskirts train stations are now at 190% capacity. That's from most of the comuters come from to work at the center. That's definately not boring, trying to solve some of those trafic problems.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 28, 2008, 05:09:10 AM
Rayden, which traffic sim are you using? The ones in the latest NAM can take some getting used to.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 28, 2008, 06:08:38 AM
I think it is the promote walking/parking. I like it because I tend to use a lot of parking lots on my cities and that works really well with that traffic plugin.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 28, 2008, 06:17:28 AM
You mean the new Park & Ride? That could very well explain why there is no traffic, since it is designed to make the most of mass tranit, by maing it impossible for Sims to reach theire destonatios by car.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mthdscrd on May 28, 2008, 07:24:18 AM
Quote from: xxdita on May 27, 2008, 09:22:17 PM

The "workforce doubler phenom" is actually a slight glitch with CAM 1.0, which we're working on getting fixed for future versions. In the CAM file, there is an exemplar that, though it in theory "should" replace the one found in simcity_1.dat, it instead is added to the existing one, which doubles the Regional Residential Population, and Regional Workforce, as far as the game is concerned. Since the Regional Residential Population is what determines which stage of Residential buildings will grow, you'll see the residential zones sprouting up faster than Comm or Ind, forcing you to zone more of those, to provide enough jobs.


the issue i am having the most trouble with seems to be exactly the opposite-i have one city with a pop of around 100k, but with almost 500k com. jobs.  Many of the office buildings show full or almost full employment but when i transportation query there will be no or very few commuters.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 28, 2008, 07:51:58 AM
Actually, it sounds like it could very well be exactly the same thing. These "phantom" Sims are counted by the game, and take up jobs, but don't actually exist. To be certain, try getting a screen capture of your Census Repository info for that city, and posting it here.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 09:35:42 AM
RippleJet. Yep I do have z_Cam and I use NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_CAM_PromoteWalking.dat that is from CAM and NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_A_Easy.dat from NAM. I guess that is that reasons (one easy thing on top of another)

Of course I should have been more specific when i said I have a city with no traffic problems. First of all it is a town of 145.000 real souls. Second - all major transport arteries are roads. But most of residential development stands on streets, none of which are drive through eg are dead ends. This way there isn't any "unrelated traffic on them. Thirdly practically all of residential zones are mid density ones. And I sort of planned this time around what and how I build instead of just adding to the grid. Commercials are located along those arterial roads with high density zones around cross-roads. That is where most real highrises are concentrated (I've got first stage 11 CO$$$ building already). I also use public transportation buses and a circular subway line. Wast majority of people work in CO and CS and those are always found relatively nearby (withing a walking distance with this traffic plug-in) that, I guess cut's on cross town traffic.
But all that should be taken with a grain of salt, well, a grate big boulder of salt really. It ain't any accurate or even very logical traffic model. For instance I do have one "narrow" spåt - a buss stop with about 5000 users. When I plop another just next to it (2,5 squares to be precise) instead of taking a load of then first one it get same traffic. So Sims, apparently just take bus rides from one stop to another with no reason other then to be on the bus.

Streets are not meant to be major part of you transport system. I think the name is very deceptive here. The more appropriately those should be called side-streets, or something along those lines.

About working ghosts. I believe this is a real  issue. But one set in game itself, rather then in any add on. Traffic simulator would never show you as many sims traveling as are listed as a workers in any given place. More that often in say industry there are NO trips by workers at all! I guess they are all using transporters and are beaming in from straight, or not from their beds. That was about hightec, in Dirty or manufacturing I guess we are dealing with slaves chained to their machines...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Rayden on May 28, 2008, 09:53:54 AM
I use to have those ghosts a lot, but now, That doesn't happen so often, mainly due to the way I play the game now. I use to connect cities one to another with roads, subs, highways, whenever I wanted. I used to make cities that when near the edge, would connect to the neighbour tile on every road points. Those roads, specially the ones near the corners, was the major causes to the ghosts or infinit commuters. They used to make a infinit loop, like going out  looking for a job, finding a connection on the other side, that if connected to another city, would keep looking for that job, ending on coming back to the first city.
Now that doesn't happen because, my cities connections are usually made with one rural or normal highway and a train line maxim, and preferable, far from the corners. That has been working OK to avoid that problem.
Also, never build or grow any lot that reaches the last tile of any city. That makes the sims to commute to the neighbour city.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 10:05:50 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 09:35:42 AM
RippleJet. Yep I do have z_Cam and I use NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_CAM_PromoteWalking.dat that is from CAM and NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_A_Easy.dat from NAM. I guess that is that reasons (one easy thing on top of another)

The plugin you installed with the latest NAM is still superseded by the one in z_CAM.
There was a Cleanitol file included with NAM, which you should have run.
That would have removed the file in z_CAM.

Now, I'd recommend you to remove the z_CAM folder and download the Mac version of NAM.
That will allow you to pick the traffic plugin and play with the different versions of them.


Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 09:35:42 AM
About working ghosts. I believe this is a real  issue. But one set in game itself, rather then in any add on. Traffic simulator would never show you as many sims traveling as are listed as a workers in any given place. More that often in say industry there are NO trips by workers at all! I guess they are all using transporters and are beaming in from straight, or not from their beds. That was about hightec, in Dirty or manufacturing I guess we are dealing with slaves chained to their machines...

I think you are confusing yourself with the difference between capacity and actual workers.
The normal query shows the capacity of the building, e.g. 464/500, where 500 is the property value given in the building exemplar and 464 is the current capacity, which depends on the desirability.
The actual number of workers is reported as Jobs in the Ctrl-Shift-Alt Query.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:11:20 AM
RippleJet:
I've installed CAM after NAM, so when I run Cleanitol prior to NAM installation there was nothing to be removed...

I must add that those couldn't possible be "commuter" since this city is the only on in the region.

To go back to my first issue - Pedriana Farm. I'm grateful for the advise I was given (to download extra farms, or Pedriana/Maxis Farm blocker) they do make game look nicer, but at the same time they hide the problem instead of solving it (possibly and preferably). Pedriana is a stage 3 farm! So, no way should it be the very first farm to develop, but it did!. Also CAM is  supposed to "ration" buildings of various stage. So At NO point there could be more then 20% of stage 3 farms. All together. But there they were 6 Pedrianas out of 7 farms!Something is clearly not working.
My current city had developed way past the farming stage and now develops nowadays. And I don't want to start next town in order to keep away all the "regional" problems. But that more urban landscape isn't without an issues either. Am I getting it right -Cam is suppose to reset all the games original lots into the new 15 stager system? Right? And the residents/worker per tile numbers were published...
So here is one discrepancy - 4x4 CO$$ lot Fisk insurance. It boasts 5752 jobs and doesn't display cam logo or title. I must say I was a bit cionfused how would I recognise CAM lots and so one, but now since I've manged to get CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+query tool I see that this is stage 8 lot. But it has got 359 jobs per tile. This number is suppose to promote it to CAM stage 10 lot...
So what do we have here? Did tis lot just slipped by, or is there some deeper issues?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 10:12:06 AM
Since this is a major issue - is there really no way to influence the simulator? I mean, OK, the capacity vs. Jobs I understand, but when you have a building that reports (using the cheat), say 100 jobs, why then does the traffic query only report 15 commuters? This is just an extreme example, but it appears those two never even come near in matching up. And seeing the ever new boundaries NAM is leaping over - isn't it just a matter of time until some clever "sausage" figures out the solution?

Ever hopeful, is what I am..  :satisfied:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:38:02 AM
I'm not quite sold on that capacity vs. jobs thing, not yet...
And even that is so -eg normal query window showing current capacity and theoretical one (a bit silly presentation if you ask me to show 2 theoretical numbers) despite line next to it state Current JOBS there is still something wrong! Shouldn't the building with NO workers in it be abandoned one?

BTW I've made some screenies of that FISK insurance lot:

this is a standard query:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi036.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fb9%2Fc6f16672a02b.jpg&hash=c50d92068bfac9937d0052bd98b28a22b04d02e9)

here is ACTRL+ALT+SHIFT query:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi007.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F66%2F0f3c85aadbc2.jpg&hash=69113ab8f1b798658b0730d3ba2820271aec60cc)

And here is traffic query:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi024.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F61%2F5d97082b8a68.jpg&hash=3369987e018a75b90e29e66fc03d8c7ba1a49141)

as you can see the number of jobs (the sum of different $??- 2085:2606:521) coincides with the first number on Current Jobs line in standard query 5212 and 5213 (I guess there are some half people involved) and number of commuters 2729 (again sum) doesn't with any number


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:11:20 AM
RippleJet:
I've installed CAM after NAM, so when I run Cleanitol prior to NAM installation there was nothing to be removed...

Figures! :thumbsup:

Then I would have suggested not to select any pathfinder plugin when installing CAM, but instead use the one that came with NAM (one of the options in the CAM installer).


Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:11:20 AM
To go back to my first issue - Pedriana Farm. I'm grateful for the advise I was given (to download extra farms, or Pedriana/Maxis Farm blocker) they do make game look nicer, but at the same time they hide the problem instead of solving it (possibly and preferably). Pedriana is a stage 3 farm! So, no way should it be the very first farm to develop, but it did!. Also CAM is  supposed to "ration" buildings of various stage. So At NO point there could be more then 20% of stage 3 farms. All together. But there they were 6 Pedrianas out of 7 farms!Something is clearly not working.

Those percentages are only probabilities, and huge fluctuations will be seen, especially early in the game when the cities are small.
If farming demand is really high, you will naturally have more Pedrianas, since they provide more jobs.


Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:11:20 AM
My current city had developed way past the farming stage and now develops nowadays. And I don't want to start next town in order to keep away all the "regional" problems. But that more urban landscape isn't without an issues either. Am I getting it right -Cam is suppose to reset all the games original lots into the new 15 stager system? Right? And the residents/worker per tile numbers were published...

So here is one discrepancy - 4x4 CO$$ lot Fisk insurance. It boasts 5752 jobs and doesn't display cam logo or title. I must say I was a bit cionfused how would I recognise CAM lots and so one, but now since I've manged to get CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+query tool I see that this is stage 8 lot. But it has got 359 jobs per tile. This number is suppose to promote it to CAM stage 10 lot...
So what do we have here? Did tis lot just slipped by, or is there some deeper issues?

The Ctrl-Alt-Shift query doesn't give you the growth stage. $%Grinno$%

And, if you'd read Appendix 4 in the CAM manual,
you'd find that the 4×4 Fisk Insurance is indeed a stage 10 CO§§. :P


Quote from: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 10:12:06 AM
Since this is a major issue - is there really no way to influence the simulator? I mean, OK, the capacity vs. Jobs I understand, but when you have a building that reports (using the cheat), say 100 jobs, why then does the traffic query only report 15 commuters? This is just an extreme example, but it appears those two never even come near in matching up. And seeing the ever new boundaries NAM is leaping over - isn't it just a matter of time until some clever "sausage" figures out the solution?

Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:38:02 AM
I'm not quite sold on that capacity vs. jobs thing, not yet...
And even that is so -eg normal query window showing current capacity and theoretical one (a bit silly presentation if you ask me to show 2 theoretical numbers) despite line next to it state Current JOBS there is still something wrong! Shouldn't the building with NO workers in it be abandoned one?

The Game Simulator is largely based on capacities, not actual jobs and workers.
The fact is that commercials and industrials can flourish with nobody working in them at all.

The development simulator wouldn't work at all if the number of jobs and workforce would have to match each other.
This is the reason for the workforce drives (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1878.0) being around 150% instead of 100%.

Consider a real life office currently offering 123 jobs.
However, if the economy is booming (desirability is good),
I'm sure that office could have a capacity of 150 instead...

It works the same way in SC4, there is always a capacity for more jobs if needed.
However, in SC4 the unused capacity isn't evenly distributed all across your region.
Instead it's the pathfinder that determines where people work, and those workplaces that are farthest away from your residentials are those that will not have anybody working in them.


Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:38:02 AM
as you can see the number of jobs (the sum of different $??- 2085:2606:521) coincides with the first number on Current Jobs line in standard query 5212 and 5213 (I guess there are some half people involved) and number of commuters 2729 (again sum) doesn't with any number

Ok, that's a good point. :thumbsup:
Obviously the Ctrl-Shift-Alt Query also reports the capacity and not the actual number of workers.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 10:54:36 AM
QuoteThen I would have suggested not to select any pathfinder plugin when installing CAM, but instead use the one that came with NAM (one of the options in the CAM installer).

Let's back up a bit here: are you saying the CAM pathinder overwrites or replaces the NAM pathfinder? Because I went the same way - new NAM first, selected B, then installed CAM (don't recall which pathfinder I used but I did use one).

Guess the only way to query which pathfinder is in use is to experiment, e.g., remove respective files (if I can identify them - sic)?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 10:57:36 AM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 10:54:36 AM
Let's back up a bit here: are you saying the CAM pathinder overwrites or replaces the NAM pathfinder? Because I went the same way - new NAM first, selected B, then installed CAM (don't recall which pathfinder I used but I did use one).

Guess the only way to query which pathfinder is in use is to experiment, e.g., remove respective files (if I can identify them - sic)?

Check your z_CAM folder.
Any pathfinder found in there will overwrite the one in the NAM folder.
In order to use the one that came with NAM, just remove the z_CAM folder! :thumbsup:

Since NAM now has a complete set of pathfinders, appropriate to be used with CAM,
CAM 1.1 will not include any pathfinder at all.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 10:44:05 AM

Obviously the Ctrl-Shift-Alt Query also reports the capacity and not the actual number of workers.
Well that doesn't surprise me at all. If that is the number that game is based on...

But... wonders never cease!!!

How would you explain this set of pictures/data:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi042.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F50%2Fcc581cf2c0c3.jpg&hash=94da7064cf59338c1a9044a971515990380f8188)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi020.radikal.ru%2F0805%2Fd9%2F2f28ec123bca.jpg&hash=a8d9038df1f2032af9219d0a159d1dade0c763ba)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi022.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F36%2Fc31575978bfa.jpg&hash=b3160dbc6424465451f5ca788247c0e0191fc51f)

Number of commuters exceeds that of either capacity. what sort of economy is that? Grey one? Of is this place covertly clones some sims that leave place by bus?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 10:59:02 AM
Number of commuters exceeds that of either capacity. what sort of economy is that? Grey one? Of is this place covertly clones some sims that leave place by bus?

Not really. :D

The commute query counts those taking more than one means of transport more than once.
In your example it seems like 143 workers are taking both the bus and the car, switching means of transport on their way to work.

There is also always a delay in updating the numbers.
Especially the route query is slow on updating, due to the time it takes to solve all commute paths.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on May 28, 2008, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 10:44:05 AM


And, if you'd read Appendix 4 in the CAM manual,
you'd find that the 4×4 Fisk Insurance is indeed a stage 10 CO§§. :P

Not quite sure on that one either, sorry...
First of all "modded" let's call it that way; query shows what it get from, I guess, lot exemplar. So given that it displays CAm stage in that industrial and no stage on Coit C$$$ CAM lot. So possibilities are that that Fisk's exemplar wasn't updated... Not nice but something hat is totally possible to live with. But there are more evidence to the contrary - namely hat this is rogue "straight" RH lot we are dealin' here with. Here is screenie with CAM Counter. As you see I don't have ANY CO$$ stage 10 lots in the city. But there it is - Fisk Insurance, right there next to the statement that it doesn't exists.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi027.radikal.ru%2F0805%2F9a%2Fe0000bb84af1.jpg&hash=3a514b7ba52208890eaeecb002f530841d93ee54)


Pst.
I reduced the size of your pic a bit.
/Tage
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 11:37:04 AM
The CAMeLot counter is given in the Occupant Group in the building exemplar, not in the lot.
All ingame building exemplars are used on more than one size of lots.

The Fisk Insurance is used on two lots:
   Lot Sise 5×4, Stage 9
   Lot Size 4×4, Stage 10

Since I didn't want to make too many changes to the ingame buildings and lots,
I decided to continue to use the same building exemplar on those two lots.

However, that also meant I had to decide whether it would be counted as a stage 9 or 10 lot.
I decided to go for the lower one, for obvious reasons.
Thus, that single stage 9 CO§§ is the Fisk Insurance (even if it is indeed a stage 10).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 11:38:51 AM
 %confuso I give up. And I was trained (a long, long, long time ago) as an economist. The SC4 relation between demand, population and actual workforce does not in any way add up to anything remotely possible.

Methinks its time the game itself (not NAM/CAM), and in particular the simulator, were rewritten by someone who actually has at least a faint idea about supply-side economics...   :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 11:41:13 AM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 11:38:51 AM
Methinks its time the game itself (not NAM/CAM), and in particular the simulator, were rewritten by someone who actually has at least a faint idea about supply-side economics...   :thumbsdown:

I'd say the simulator works pretty well,
considering what level of computers it was meant to be run on. ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 11:47:06 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on May 28, 2008, 11:41:13 AM
I'd say the simulator works pretty well,
considering what level of computers it was meant to be run on. ::)
Sure, it "runs" well, in terms of running the game, and especially when considering the HW of those days. But we've gone on a bit, in terms of said HW, and for this here game still being a considerable cash cow for EA, it really is time that they took the plunge to at least patch it to work with todays HW and thus exploit the HW factor by providing a more realistic simulator..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: krbe on May 28, 2008, 11:57:37 AM
Quote from: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 11:38:51 AM
Methinks its time the game itself (not NAM/CAM), and in particular the simulator, were rewritten by someone who actually has at least a faint idea about supply-side economics...   :thumbsdown:

Too many dots in your chart?  ()testing()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HandsOn on May 28, 2008, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: krbe on May 28, 2008, 11:57:37 AM
Too many dots in your chart?  ()testing()
Actually, quite enough dots - now all we need is for the simulatore to connect them and thus draw the right picture..  &idea
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on May 28, 2008, 12:06:07 PM
QuoteQuote from: SimFox on Today at 12:11:20 PM
To go back to my first issue - Pedriana Farm. I'm grateful for the advise I was given (to download extra farms, or Pedriana/Maxis Farm blocker) they do make game look nicer, but at the same time they hide the problem instead of solving it (possibly and preferably). Pedriana is a stage 3 farm! So, no way should it be the very first farm to develop, but it did!. Also CAM is  supposed to "ration" buildings of various stage. So At NO point there could be more then 20% of stage 3 farms. All together. But there they were 6 Pedrianas out of 7 farms!Something is clearly not working.


Those percentages are only probabilities, and huge fluctuations will be seen, especially early in the game when the cities are small.
If farming demand is really high, you will naturally have more Pedrianas, since they provide more jobs.

There was a discussion a week or so ago about why things grew when they did.

Click Here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4441.msg140676#msg140676)

One point made during the discussion. On factor is that Maxis will select a larger building when making the decision about what to grow. Pedrianna's is huge. I am not surprised at your results. I use the pedrianns'a plants mod by Shadow Assassin. That will get rid of it for sure.



Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 28, 2008, 01:24:04 PM
Is everyone sufficiently confused yet?

So what have we learned?

The traffic simulators that were originally packaged with CAM were modified, using the best information available at the time. If you'll notice, the CAM has been on the LEX since July 07, the latest NAM traffic sims were originally released I believe in February of this year, and are really a lot better for the game. Since the file Promote_X traffic sims that came with CAM were installed into the z_CAM folder, it is a necessity to remove those,  by using the Cleanitol that came with the April 08 NAM release, otherwise it will override any other traffic simulator you install. It's always important to check the release dates of files, and try to install from oldest to newest, so that you have the most up to date Plugins. Run the NAM Cleanitol again, and you'll start having more realistic traffic. But prepare to fight off dilapidation and abandonment in the first few years. Rezoning problem areas is the best way to go usually.

Also, CAM doesn't really "ration" the stages. It's not that at each capacity level you'll have X% of a particular stage, but that each stage has X% of a chance to grow in any zone, all depending on various other factors, including demand, and other stage caps.

By "phantom" sims, I'm not speaking about eternal commuters, but a specific problem found with CAM 1.0 causing the game to report a doubled Regional Residential Population, as well as a doubled Regional Workforce. Of course, this doesn't apply to you anymore Rayden (hopefully), since you're testing the fixed version.  $%Grinno$%
Eternal commuters were around long before CAM, and probably always will be to some extent, but can be limited based on how you play the game.

We can figure out some of the information provided by Alt-Shift-Ctrl Query, but not all of it just yet. Considering it's only been discovered (or at least made public) a week or so ago, I think we're doing pretty well with it.

And while it would be great for EA to release more add-ons for the game, I just wonder how much more they could add at this point, that hasn't already been provided by the custom creators, or is at least in the works. Or would another Expansion Pack just screw up everything that's been done already? Probably better not chance it huh? It's not likely that they would listen to any of the people that actually play the game anyway (see SCS).

Last point: it's not the actual physical size of the building that determines how well it will grow, but the number of job that the building provides. As the only Stage 3 farm actually included in the game (though to be fair it looks as if Pedriana's is on 3 different lots), and Stage 3 being the highest stage in the Vanilla game, it didn't really matter how many jobs Pedriana's provided, as long as it was a lot. The only way to completely even out the playing field would be to have every building in each stage have exactly the same number of jobs provided. Then, you would have truly random growth, but that would be boring.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2008, 10:03:26 AM
hey just a quick note, even with the CAM/BSC maxis blocker i still get several maxis midrise lots growing, the only one whose name i can remember is bennet music corp, its a little brick box but there are about 4 others.... all tend to be CO$$. is there any reason for this or is there simply a bug with my system....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2008, 02:09:38 PM
Can you verify that you do have the file no_CO$$.DAT in your plugins?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2008, 04:47:58 PM
yes i do.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2008, 10:12:33 PM
Any chance that no_CO$$.DAT is loaded before CAM itself (which is in the a_CAM folder)?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2008, 10:32:16 PM
the root path is plugins\zz_nomaxis\no_co$$.dat
cam is in plugins\a_cam, not to be rude tage but i wouldn't have posted here if i hadnt considered those possibilities....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2008, 11:07:11 PM
Quote from: mightygoose on May 29, 2008, 10:32:16 PM
not to be rude tage but i wouldn't have posted here if i hadnt considered those possibilities....

Yeah, I know... just ruling out the obvious, since I'm running out of ideas... &Thk/(
Is there anything being loaded after zz_nomaxis?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2008, 11:14:22 PM
zzzmtp\ mountain trail pack textures

zzzpegprod\ water mod

zzzzrocks\ rock mod

zzzzzSFBT\ rail texture mod

thats all....

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2008, 11:16:29 PM
Just to be certain, could you list the content in zzzmtp?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 29, 2008, 11:43:42 PM
PEG_MTP_TEXTURES_vol2.dat and a readme....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 29, 2008, 11:56:33 PM
Can't blame the readme... $%Grinno$%

One remaining option would in that case be that those Bennet Music Corps,
which is a Maxis building, would be someone's relotted version of the ingame building... &Thk/(
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on May 30, 2008, 12:11:47 AM
I also have the same problem and have never been able to work out where this file resides. I know it is a relot but cannot find it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: catty on May 30, 2008, 01:04:57 AM
Would this have anything to with your problem with the Bennet Music Corps

QuoteCommercial Offices Vol 02, by JMyers

Four commercial office buidlings that grow at or about the same time as the Maxis Bennet Music.  The Maxis Bennet Music grows at  stage two through four. It was placed on ten lots. Consequently it grows a lot in my cities. These buildings do not replace Bennet but are intended to add variety.  Each is placed on three or four lots. A stage two 3X3, one or two Stage three 2X3 lots, and finally a stage four 2X2 lot. Each builing offers jobs to 96 Sims.

%confuso
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 30, 2008, 01:10:26 AM
No, not quite. Although JMeyers has a knack for creating buildings that compete well with Maxis, he hasn't relotted any Maxis buildings with this package. The search goes on...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on May 30, 2008, 10:36:45 AM
i know its only four buildings.... but the lots are anywhere from 2x2 - 4x4
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Insert User Here on July 01, 2008, 06:21:18 PM
Sorry if I'm being a newbie. I'm very interested in the CAM, but wondering about a few things.

Firstly, as a suggestion: I don't think I recall seeing in the manual regarding wich growth stages grow on which zone density. Maybe this should be added?

I was wondering how "compatiable" the CAM is with existing regions. I have a well established region and would like to continue using it if possible.
I know I have a few incompatiable mods, I will remove them if I decide to install the CAM, but I was wondering if there were any known issues with any NDEX lots, SimGoober's farm lots and Pegasus' CDK sets? They're my main groups of plugins. Are there any other issues I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance, it seems like you've put a lot of effort into the CAM, and it looks very useful!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on July 01, 2008, 07:55:34 PM
Welcome to SC4D, and to CAM IUH. It's a lot to take in huh?  $%Grinno$%
Most regions created with Vanilla/Rush Hour will not be able to be used after installing CAM 1.0. Testing is underway to find out if those regions will be able to be used with future versions though.
Any NDEX buildings, or other skyscrapers downloaded from other sites will also not be compatible with ANY version of CAM, though if you check the LEX, you will find that many of them have been remodded and relotted specifically for use with CAM. Most (if not all) of SimGoober's works have also been updated for CAM, and are available on the LEX as well. No clue about the CDK lots, as I have never used them, and don't care to speculate.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wes.janson on July 01, 2008, 08:19:10 PM
As far as I know there is no issue with Pegs work and the CAM. I am no expert, but having used Peg's work in every one of my CAM cities over the past god knows how long, I have yet to experience any problems whatsoever.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: V3nn on July 09, 2008, 07:01:27 AM
how to increase desirabillity for co? ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on July 09, 2008, 11:01:16 AM
Quote from: V3nn on July 09, 2008, 07:01:27 AM
how to increase desirabillity for co? ()what()

The drive for CO§§§ comes especially from rich people with an EQ above 100.
Thus, you need to have a good system of education, and you need to have a certain amount of rich people living in your region.

If you already have all that, then you need to look at the desirability for CO§§§.
In order to increase it you need to:
  - have no garbage lying around your city,
  - have no crime,
  - have buildings or plazas with landmark effect,
  - have as little air pollution as possible and
  - have as much traffic as possible.

The last two ones are usually working against each other though...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on July 13, 2008, 02:51:26 PM
What is the ideal spacing of MT stations (specifically bus and subway) in CAM?  I realize that there is no simple answer to this question, but if someone at least has some general guidelines, that would be helpful.  Right now, I am using the CAM traffic simulator with the "Promote Biking" setting, but I assume I will be using one of the new simulators when CAM 1.1 comes out.  In any case, it would be very helpful to know, based on the traffic simulator in use, what the optimal spacing of these stations would be, and how it varies from one zone type to another (if it does).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on July 13, 2008, 10:09:54 PM
No need to wait for a new CAM before trying out the latest NAM traffic simulators. But your best bet is to download the MAC version, which has all of the files in a zip, rather than installer. This way, you can figure out which one is right for you.
As for spacing of transit stations, it really depends on the growth of your city, and the capacity of the stations themselves.
As congested traffic can put a damper on growth in CAM, I tend to put my subway stations in roughly every 4 to 6 grid tiles, then connect everything up to allow as many subway lines as possible, in every direction. A lot of stations are over capacity, but that's allowed. I also add a station directly across from any major employer, such as Stage 15 CO's, in order to enable everyone to get to work.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on July 23, 2008, 04:15:53 PM
Quote from: Insert User Here on July 01, 2008, 06:21:18 PM
Firstly, as a suggestion: I don't think I recall seeing in the manual regarding wich growth stages grow on which zone density. Maybe this should be added?
The reason this isn't in the manual is that it isn't a fixed relationship.  There's a separate property for each building for which growth stage they are and which density zone(s) they grow in.  So it's really up to the building's creator what the correlation is, although you'll get a good feeling over time for which growth stages grow in which zones.

It's possible that the X Tool may standardize this, but then again, it may not.  I really don't know.

Although as xxdita says, most existing regions cannot be converted to CAM, some can.  I had a large New York metropolitan region with millions of Sims that converted to CAM seamlessly.  The best thing to do is try it out.  Make a backup copy of your region (essential!), and then try running the region with CAM.  See what happens!

Of course, for this to have even a chance of working, you have to follow xxdita's instructions completely.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on July 23, 2008, 05:30:49 PM
QuoteI was wondering how "compatible" the CAM is with existing regions. I have a well established region and would like to continue using it if possible.

Well first of all, Z gives good advise. Make of copy of your favorite region to a back up folder if you are uncertain about the results.

Regarding compatibility? One thing to keep in mind is the make up of your region.

I got involved with the CAM at beta 5. I was easily able to continue RUSH HOUR cities using the CAM. I'd switch to CAM beta 5, back to Rush Hour, then CAM beta 6, etc. . .  I should say that I am a bit of a rural player and my largest city was 150,000 Sims and I can't speak directly about cities of 1 Million. But other players such as Z have been able to integrate the CAM into their large cities with no problems. A lot depends on how you've fashioned your city to begin with. Do you have a lot of NDEX plop CO$$$'s? Then you'll have a tougher time making a go of it. If on the other hand, your 1 million Sim city has grown to its current size with few plops, then, your experience will be more rewarding I think. That's not saying that it will be perfect. It is possible that your city will be in for a bit of a roller coaster ride for the first 20 years or so as the game adjusts and finds balance to its 'new set of rules. But it will not be made unplayable with CTD's.

XXdita also give good advise. I would probably begin the process of weeding out those old stage 8 commercials that you've collected over the years and begin to put together a collection of updated stage 9 through 15's. You don't have to do it over night. The CAM will play just fine and dandy with a mixer of old and new. But be aware that a lot of those stage 8 NDEX offices (either having been grown or plopped) will have a negative impact on the growth of buildings stage 9 and upwards. One of the goals of the CAM? Let's try to grow the Empire State building as a stage 15 rather than have a bunch of giant stage 8's. 

Regarding Pegasus - He's actually done a good job through the years of modding reasonable stats for his buildings. Most of his things are reward/landmark/park type stuff that offer sensible numbers of jobs and are designed to make your city look pretty. So there is no conflict between Peg and the CAM.

A lot of SimGoobers buildings have been CAM'ed. Once again. You should probably think about systematically weeding out the old and replace them with the new. 

Hope this helps.



Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on August 08, 2008, 04:13:04 AM
Hi all...

I'm currently using the CAM in my region and my largest city especially is starting to really get some nice
development   It has a population of 725 K and Ive reached some of the higher growth stages now in it..
1- stage 10 industrial..  a few stage 15 commercial sky scrapers and I recently got my first stage 14
residential.. Anyways , one problem I have is i sometimes fall into a rut with my zoning.. meaning i too
often zone out the same old zoning dimensions.. like 3 X 3 or a lot of 4 X 3 zones.. thus your more likely
to end up with duplicate buildings that way  Its too bad because i know how to use the control key to make
the zones any dimension I want them to be..When I was looking over the list of CAM buildings and their zones
from the CAMeLots linking all available lots thread and i saw all the wonderful different zone dimensions and cool
buildings it has finally broke my rut of zoning the same ole zone dimensions..

   but I have a question about the previous areas I've already zoned .. most having already development on them..
I think a specific example might best explain my question..:

   OK, lets say I had  a residential zoning block of the same density, lets say high density for instance..
In this residential  zoning block let's say i originally zoned out using the control key some of those same old
zone dimensions .. say a 3 X 2 zone.. maybe a 4 X 4 zone and a 3 X 3 zone in there too.. we will also assume I zoned this still as one continuous zoning block of the same density- High..

Over time i was able
to get a few stage 8 and 9 residential high rises in there and they corresponded to those original zone sizes..
so i had a stage 8 - 3 X 2 evolve in there and maybe the 4 X 4 and the 3 X 3 eventually evolved into stage
9- high rises..

  Now , lets say over time as the city evolved.. perhaps i planted some trees and placed some new parks in that
same area and this area was now ready to evolve into the higher CAM stages of stages 9-10.. 11 later on..
Since its still a continuous high density zoning block although it was originally zoned with the dimensions I
mentioned above.. would it still be possible to get buildings of a different dimesion say.. 5 X 4 or even a 6 X 2
building.. or do to get those types of building dimensions would I have to rezone the area into blocks of 5 X 4
or 6 X 2 blocks ?

I hope I explained this well enough..

and Id like to thank every person out there involved with the development of the CAM,, it has added more enjoyment to playing SC 4 , than i could have ever hoped for..

Thanks Much,  Brian
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on August 08, 2008, 07:13:59 AM
It's never easy to predict how a block will develop, but the following scenarios are possible:

- A large lot gets split up into two (or more) smaller ones, as long as at least one of the smaller ones can develop a building of a higher growth stage than the replaced one.

- Two adjecent lots get merged into a larger lot, if there is a building available of a higher growth stage than the highest one in the two lots being replaced.

- Two (or more) adjecent lots get merged and resplit into another configuration, as long as at least one of the new lots can develop a building of a higher growth stage than all the replaced ones.

The building(s) that develop right away in the tract also need to have a higher occupancy than all those buildings being replaced.

Thus, it's fully possible for two adjecent lots of sizes 4x4 and 3x4 to merge and split up unto e.g. a 6x4 and a 1x4, if there is a suitable higher stage building that can develop on the 6x4 lot. The 1x4 lot doesn't necessarily have to develop at the same time if the occupancy of the building on the 6x4 lot is greater than the combined occupancy of the 4x4 and 3x4 lots.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on August 08, 2008, 02:15:55 PM
thanks for your prompt reply Ripple..
That was the reply I was hoping for  :)

Brian
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gallard0_inc on August 17, 2008, 08:40:31 AM
Hi everyone...
I got a question,
How much the region population needed to have a stage 15 CO$$$?
I already have 3 million region population, but still no stage 15 CO$$$...
And is it really the I-HT Somy 1 or 2 with 22k can develop?
Because I don't have any one of those in my cities...
It always I-HT Somy with 14k that is grow in my cities...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on August 17, 2008, 02:56:10 PM
It's not the regional population, but the regional commercial capacity (CO + CS) that counts.  For Stage 15 CO$$$, it's 788,720.  See the CAM Manual for further details on this.

Also, merely hitting the necessary capacity threshold does not guarantee the growth of a particular stage of building.  Many other factors are involved as well.  See RippleJet's excellent post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5282.msg171118#msg171118) for more details on this.

As for the Somy 1 and 2 buildings, they're too big to grow in CAM 1.0.  I think this is being fixed in CAM 1.1, though I'm not completely sure.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gallard0_inc on August 18, 2008, 01:01:52 AM
Oh yes Z, I mean regional comercial capacity ;D
I see, so the Somy 1 and 2 doesn't grow...
Well then, thanks Z for the information
Helps me a lot! ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: papab2000 on August 29, 2008, 11:54:45 AM
My question is since the CAM Essentials file is locked is this going to cause any issues with
me installing CAMlot files? I have installed the CAM and am working on installing CAMpadables lots.

Thank you,
Rich
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 29, 2008, 11:58:02 AM
You need to install BSC Essentials as the CAM Essentials is combined into that.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: papab2000 on August 29, 2008, 12:34:33 PM
Great, thanks for the quick response.

Rich
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: phillosopherp on August 31, 2008, 12:51:02 PM
but what about a cam disk. I figure the most the have contributed to the CAM are still active. Those that aren't that you are still using their stuff why not include a cleanitol file to grab those from the various sites. I would pay good money for something like that. As I am fairly new to custom content in SC4 I don't have most of these files. I also made the mistake of not paying the best of attention the first time around, ended up with doubles and triples I think and had SC4 CTD too much and had to reinstall. This of course made me wipe it all and now I am going back to get it all. I figure that most would pay for a service like this at least to have it as a backup disc. I don't know if it has been discussed before but what say you fearless admins. Is this something that would be possible?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: callagrafx on August 31, 2008, 01:15:09 PM
patience is a virtue  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on August 31, 2008, 01:34:33 PM
The permission of one person whose BATs were extensively used for CAMelots has already been sought to put the models into a pack for the LEX. The permission was refused.  We cannot put anything on a disk without the permission of the creator and I am almost certain that permission would be refused for some of the older BATs that were used.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: DanFraser on September 17, 2008, 02:22:08 PM
I get this (below) when trying to click the download link, and it doesn't appear in the downloads stuff on the left hand side of the LEX.

Sorry ...I have a problem ...

I have a problem with the data you entered.

You have entered invalid data !
The following seems incorrect ...
Download Quota for this lot has been exceeded ...
The System Quality Controller ... (picture above) ... is having problems with the data you entered..

Click the BACK button in your BROWSER and try again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on September 17, 2008, 02:45:19 PM
Are you using a download manager?  They can start multiple downloads which trip the max downloads.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 17, 2008, 02:50:28 PM
Or maybe you haven't registered at the LEX yet?
Note that you have to register separately for the LEX (it's not the same as registering to SC4D).
Go to the main page (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/Default.htm) and register first, before clicking any link leading directly to a download.


Sorry, I didn't read what you said carefully enough... &ops

If the download quota is filled, you will have to wait till tomorrow before retrying.
However, before retrying, please empty your internet file cache.

You've probably got an incomplete download the first time your tried.
And each successive download takes that incomplete one from the cache...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mon7 on September 20, 2008, 10:24:39 PM
Hi guys
I'm getting more and more lost and confused :'( :'(
I'v got boxes with R$ stage 9 Insufficient arms and inferior arms carch.
i don't know where i got it from or where to find the dependency. I love this game and love all the things u guys make  &apls. I am sorry for the inconvenience
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 20, 2008, 11:41:03 PM
The models for both those buildings are in BSC MEGA Props - CARCH Vol03 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=695)
Next time please look at the thread here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0 as that lists all the released CAMelots with their names and where the models are.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: hammypotter on October 05, 2008, 06:31:50 PM
hello all, i am new to CAM and so please fogive me if I just asked a silly question.
I have started to play with CAM for a week on a new region , working on about 6 different locations with a total pop. of 100000.
the thing is usually i will be abale to zone in 4x4 hi dense residential for my low wealth sims easily in the original version. But here with the CAM i am noticin not a single stage 8 resident building was found in the whole region.(i have already read the manual and downloaded all camelots adviced here on one of the thread) why is that?? did the CAM made it much more difficult to get those buildings or am i doin something wrong?? so far i only provided buses as MT, is that ok??  thanks in advance and hope to recieve answers soon.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 06, 2008, 02:43:01 AM
Quote from: hammypotter on October 05, 2008, 06:31:50 PM
the thing is usually i will be abale to zone in 4x4 hi dense residential for my low wealth sims easily in the original version. But here with the CAM i am noticin not a single stage 8 resident building was found in the whole region.(i have already read the manual and downloaded all camelots adviced here on one of the thread) why is that?? did the CAM made it much more difficult to get those buildings or am i doin something wrong??

You are quite right, hammypotter!
All low-wealth buildings (R§, CS§ and ID) grow a lot slower than in RH.

Take a look at the first two graphs in the initial post here:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1177.0

With Rush Hour, R§ reaches its final distribution already at a regional residential capacity of 19,846.
At this stage an average of 20% of all R§ buildings that grow would be stage 8.

With CAM 1.0, R§ won't reach a corresponding distribution until after the regional residential capacity has surpassed 108,545.
At this stage an average of 20% of all R§ buildings that grow would be stage 8 (15%) or stage 9 (5%).

On the other hand, with CAM you will see more R§ development a long time after this as well...
...up to and above a regional residential capacity of 3,000,000.

If you want to compare these threshold more in detail, check these two threads:

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 17, 2008, 09:23:33 AM
Hi, sorry but I need help.

I have just made a great work in dealing with plug-in folders and balancing my game because I wished to prepare it for CAM. I have followed tutorials about plug-ins and CAMeLOTs but every non-maxis farm is rising up with the brown box instead of the farm. Only fields are ok.

I'm sure that I've download EVERYTHING that was listesd in the readme files. What I'm missing?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3243%2F2948959585_20ff3bd425.jpg%3Fv%3D0&hash=36a97d4ffd718ae8ab3233f771bfc34cb97272d6)

PS: may I know if is there any specific post related to new CAM developments? I would like to know what will be new in next releases and if I risk more than a little bit of dilapidation if I switch from version 1 to version X (whatever, 1.5 or 2...)

Thank you very much! I know I can rely on this forum, now :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 17, 2008, 09:46:30 AM
It would help if you could list the names of the farms in the above picture as it is impossible to tell you what you are missing without knowing exactly which farms they are.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 17, 2008, 10:05:24 AM
Yep, sorry:
Betania fruit farm
Dipillo Vineyard
Imori Lavander Farm
Ginestra Vegetable farm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 17, 2008, 10:23:29 AM
In that case you have not downloaded all the dependencies as all those require BSC MEGA Props MBEAR Vol03 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1260)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 17, 2008, 12:51:27 PM
I did, and it has fixed only some.
Betania fruit farm and Imori Lavender farm are the only ones with bron boxes.

I have also made a test in non-rural areas, and I've seen that the following buildings also have brow boxes:

IMG fukitol herbal industry
IHT stage 8 goober Gen Labs
IM4 acme pencil factory
stage 14 crystal dubai
stage 12 Azubre
SG Eon Center
Stage 13 Cobalt Tower

and I can't understand what they need and is missing, because I can't find the installation file and, then, the readme.

I have donwloaded more than 80 dependency files only this evening. Using the links in attached readme file, I have reached empty pages on simtropolis.com where it is clear that the required files are not available anymore. I have also been sent to japanese pages, where I have just not been able to find any download link.

As far as I've seen, this CAM is really worthy of but downloading all dependencies is becoming really hard! I have a 1,09 gb plugin folder now! Oh my... :_(

Thanks again!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 17, 2008, 01:20:02 PM
For the two farms you also need BSC MEGA Propa MBEAR vol02 which is also in the Readme. If you have problems with dependencies that are not where the Readme says it will be because the lots were uploaded without redoing the Readmes. I realise this may cause problems but if you look at the button at the top of every page you will see one with a brown box on. That links to Diggis' Dependency list which lists most prop packs and their current location. There is also a pinned thread in the CAM forum with links to dependencies and another with links to packs where the CAMelot models are linked.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on October 17, 2008, 05:11:08 PM
Hello Orion79.

I see that you are new to SC4 Devotion (registration in Sept) and you've got 54 posts. Looks like you are making your self at home  :thumbsup:

Barby gives good advise.

I get a brown box every once in a while too. In fact, I see that you are looking for the Fukitol Herbal Industry. That one grew as a brown box for me last weekend.

What do I do? I stop the game. Query the box. Save the game and search through a thread called 'linking all available lots and bats' .. I have not been disappointed and have always found what I was looking for after searching that thread.


http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0)

Good Luck.


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 18, 2008, 12:58:10 AM
@jmyers2043, thanx so much: indeed it has been a very good advice since, in a couple of hours, I have been able to find all missing textures or whatever. As for record, I post it here:

Betania fruit farm and Imori Lavender farm needs Mbear vol.1

I mark it because, with google, I have found several topics in spanish and japanese, with ppl asking for my same trouble :)

Also, 2 more questions. Is there any way to get rid of CAM-only version of growable maxis landmarks? I have already found the locker for coit tower, but I would like to have a blocker for all of them.

And how farms are supposed to evolve?

Thanks again: you have been very useful
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 18, 2008, 01:08:06 AM
As all the MBEAR MEGA Packs were referenced in the Readmes for the BMD farms, you should have have downloaded all of them.
Farms are the only zone type that does not upgrade so to see higher stages of farms you often need to bulldoze the lower stages or zone more areas. As CAM affects growth stage on a regional population basis often starting a new city tile with agriculture in a developed region can help to get the higher stages of farms. You also need fire stations close to farm zones to obtain stages 4 and 5. Stage 6 farms are woodland preserves and stage 7 are heritage sites. If you read the CAM manual you will see the requirements for each stage.
I will leave Ripplejet to give you the answer regarding the growable Maxis landmarks.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 18, 2008, 11:08:21 AM
Hello. At last, I have decided to make the jump and prepare my game for CAM.

As far as I have seen, it is just great. Farms have never been so beautiful and everything is growing quite well. It looks like if it is offering a much more balanced set, even because in all my cities I had a weird effect where landvalue was damn high but very rich sims couldn't find employment because of the lack of $$$ CO and there were not enough $$$ C-Offices because of the lack of rich Sims :) The CAM has been able to unfreeze that situation.

Still, I must admit that I'm not very fond of having landmarks rising up as working offices. I have already removed the files that caused some landmarks to pop us as farms and download the Coit Tower blocker but I prefer to have no growing landmarks at all and, instead, to keep using my functioning plopable landmarks only. Is it possible?

Also I have seen that there *may* be something not working with some CAM high-level farms: the ones that works like forest reserves. When I move to high visual, the ground texture disappears and I see only trees upon an horrible brown field, instead than the green one. Is there any fix for this?

PS: I have also seen almost every downloaded CAMeLOT has a plopable landmark version. How can I get rid of them quickly? Do I have to check each file 1 by 1? Thanks!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 18, 2008, 12:49:50 PM
Quote from: 0rion79 on October 18, 2008, 11:08:21 AM
very rich sims couldn't find employment because of the lack of $$$ CO and there were not enough $$$ C-Offices because of the lack of rich Sims :) The CAM has been able to unfreeze that situation.

That's something that players will always have problems with if they allow the living conditions to become too good... ::)
Usually players want their cities to be "perfect", which will encourage R§§§ to move in,
even if there aren't enough jobs for all of them.

Since even the richest CO§§§ and I-HT employ more R§§ and even more R§ than R§§§,
you will always need a lot more R§ and R§§ residents than R§§§.


Quote from: 0rion79 on October 18, 2008, 11:08:21 AM
Still, I must admit that I'm not very fond of having landmarks rising up as working offices. I have already removed the files that caused some landmarks to pop us as farms and download the Coit Tower blocker but I prefer to have no growing landmarks at all and, instead, to keep using my functioning plopable landmarks only. Is it possible?

It is possible... ::)
A blocker for all growable landmarks included in CAM 1.0 is attached to this post.

Be sure to place it in a folder that's loaded after a_CAM, e.g. the z_CAM folder. ;)


Quote from: 0rion79 on October 18, 2008, 11:08:21 AM
Also I have seen that there *may* be something not working with some CAM high-level farms: the ones that works like forest reserves. When I move to high visual, the ground texture disappears and I see only trees upon an horrible brown field, instead than the green one. Is there any fix for this?

Would you have a picture showing this, and the names of the forest reserves suffering?


Quote from: 0rion79 on October 18, 2008, 11:08:21 AM
PS: I have also seen almost every downloaded CAMeLOT has a plopable landmark version. How can I get rid of them quickly? Do I have to check each file 1 by 1? Thanks!

Most CAMeLots available on the LEX do not have ploppable landmarks included.
Those that do, say so in the readme, and if you don't want them, you will have to remove them manually.
In most cases these have a filename starting with PLOP...

If you are referring to old ploppable buildings that you have downloaded from STEX or elsewhere,
you might want to read the thread from where this quote is taken:

Quote from: RippleJet on August 14, 2007, 03:59:28 PM
If the Model File is included in a previously uploaded lot (on STEX or a Japanese site), you only need the file that contains the batted model from that upload. Normally this is a SC4Model file, but in some cases it might be a DAT file. In no cases will you need any SC4Lot files, SC4Desc files or custom queries contained in the original upload, or any dependencies mentioned for that upload.

You might also want to run the Cleanitol with the file CAM Remove Lots BSC Cleanitol (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=963).
That would remove most old lots (including landmarks) that were included in downloads you may have needed for the model alone.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 19, 2008, 01:49:01 AM
So, here is a snapshot from my game about the ground texture matter for tree farms.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3014%2F2954183822_e0fa4c7621.jpg%3Fv%3D0&hash=b2e705b329c90cbda33907bcf62799424aa04bb3)
I don't know if it is wanted, unexpected or just something impossible to avoid but the farm that looks so good at lower levels becomes a pain for the eye when seen from the top high view.

About the rest...

1 - thanks for the patch! What do I have to do with the Coit tower blocker? Delete it?
2 - about $$$ Sims, I know. Thats' why I tend to build both rural areas and other cities where I simply block the incomng of $$$$ Sims and Commercial O/S to balance regional demand and, in fact, I don't suffer of dilapidation. And still your CAM looks being able to brings the game to an higher level.

It is even very interesting this matter of farms and industries needing parks nearby: this will force me to better project future industrial areas, planting trees and recreation zones instead than "flat zoning" :)

And one last question (I hope). Sorry if I make silly ones, but I prefer asking than messing up the game. Fixing errors is much more difficult than preventing them. This is the list of detected files from Cleanit Tool, using the file that you have sent me. Are they really useless? ()what()

QuoteI-m2_6x7_jes_PerkinsFurnitureCompany_d104ac9e.SC4Lot (I-m2_6x7_jes_PerkinsFurnitureCompany_d104ac9e.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\BSC\jestarr\PerkinsFurnitureCompany
I-m3_5x7_GanongChocolateFactory_136f43bf.SC4Lot (I-m3_5x7_GanongChocolateFactory_136f43bf.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\BSC\jestarr\GanongChocolateFactory
SG_4x5_YuenglingBrewery_8ff75b67.SC4Lot (SG_4x5_YuenglingBrewery_8ff75b67.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\Yuengling Brewery
I-m2_4x2_jes_ReplogleGlobeFactory_d3fd9ab8.SC4Lot (I-m2_4x2_jes_ReplogleGlobeFactory_d3fd9ab8.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\BSC\jestarr\ReplogleGlobeFactory
I-m3_3x6_SG_AutoFactory_8fa45263.SC4Lot (I-m3_3x6_SG_AutoFactory_8fa45263.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\AutoFactory
I-m3_6x3_SG_AutoFactory_efa45329.SC4Lot (I-m3_6x3_SG_AutoFactory_efa45329.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\AutoFactory
I-D3_8x6_SG_HansonHosieryMills_10ea8d2e.SC4Lot (I-D3_8x6_SG_HansonHosieryMills_10ea8d2e.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\Hanson Hosiery
I-m3_8x6_SG_HansonHosieryMills_50ea8d74.SC4Lot (I-m3_8x6_SG_HansonHosieryMills_50ea8d74.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\Hanson Hosiery
CO$$$8_3x3golden_bank_4d70869b.SC4Lot (CO$$$8_3x3golden_bank_4d70869b.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
CO$$$8_4x3One_Ex_Plaza_ad6e2eef.SC4Lot (CO$$$8_4x3One_Ex_Plaza_ad6e2eef.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
CO$$$_First National Tower_4d55404a.SC4Lot (CO$$$_First National Tower_4d55404a.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DT_CO$$$_8_3x4_azuriko Plaza II_Growable.dat (DT_CO$$$_8_3x4_azuriko Plaza II_Growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DT_CO$$$_8_4x3_Andover Tower.dat (DT_CO$$$_8_4x3_Andover Tower.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DT_Keaton Plaza Growable.dat (DT_Keaton Plaza Growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DuskTooper's_CO$$$_8_4x4_Technetium Tower growable.dat (DuskTooper's_CO$$$_8_4x4_Technetium Tower growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DuskTrooper's Parkenon (Garage) Prop.dat (DuskTrooper's Parkenon (Garage) Prop.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DuskTrooper's_Frank&Archai_Growable.dat (DuskTrooper's_Frank&Archai_Growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DuskTrooper_CO$$$_8_4x4_W Ravenn Tower Growable.dat (DuskTrooper_CO$$$_8_4x4_W Ravenn Tower Growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DuskTrooper_CO$$$_8_5x3_Cobalt Tower_Growable.dat (DuskTrooper_CO$$$_8_5x3_Cobalt Tower_Growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Dusktrooper_CO$$$_8_5x5_Skychase Plaza_Growable.dat (Dusktrooper_CO$$$_8_5x5_Skychase Plaza_Growable.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
DuskTrooper_Jetersen & Focsmann Growable_CO$$$_8_5x3.dat (DuskTrooper_Jetersen & Focsmann Growable_CO$$$_8_5x3.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Eburress - Ellington Tower - Growable CO$$ (3x6)_4e3e65fc.SC4Lot (Eburress - Ellington Tower - Growable CO$$ (3x6)_4e3e65fc.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Eburress' e2i Tower - Growable CO$$$.dat (Eburress' e2i Tower - Growable CO$$$.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Eburress' e2i Tower - Growable CO$$.dat (Eburress' e2i Tower - Growable CO$$.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Frogface HQ_ed625b63.SC4Lot (Frogface HQ_ed625b63.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
kd5rax_TaipeiLite_5x5_Growable_eedc3e78.SC4Lot (kd5rax_TaipeiLite_5x5_Growable_eedc3e78.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
LyrePlaza GROW.dat (LyrePlaza GROW.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Cardinal Airlines Tower - Growable CO$$$ (4x5)_aeb26e15.SC4Lot (NDEX - Cardinal Airlines Tower - Growable CO$$$ (4x5)_aeb26e15.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Communications HQ Set - Growable CO3 (4x4)_2fcaf868.SC4Lot (NDEX - Communications HQ Set - Growable CO3 (4x4)_2fcaf868.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Diamond Financial Center - Growable CO3_f0374f01.SC4Lot (NDEX - Diamond Financial Center - Growable CO3_f0374f01.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Evil Vanadium HQ - Growable CO3 (4x3)_af11b372.SC4Lot (NDEX - Evil Vanadium HQ - Growable CO3 (4x3)_af11b372.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - KaplanKo Inc Tower - Growable CO$$ (5x3)_ae62c5c1.SC4Lot (NDEX - KaplanKo Inc Tower - Growable CO$$ (5x3)_ae62c5c1.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Key Tower - Growable CO3 (3x4)_d047246d.SC4Lot (NDEX - Key Tower - Growable CO3 (3x4)_d047246d.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Niobium Energy Company - Growable CO3 (4x5)_8e2bf527.SC4Lot (NDEX - Niobium Energy Company - Growable CO3 (4x5)_8e2bf527.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Pacifica Palm Hotel - Growable CS3 (2x5L)_ef2bb7da.SC4Lot (NDEX - Pacifica Palm Hotel - Growable CS3 (2x5L)_ef2bb7da.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Pacifica Palm Hotel - Growable CS3 (2x5R)_4f2bb7c8.SC4Lot (NDEX - Pacifica Palm Hotel - Growable CS3 (2x5R)_4f2bb7c8.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Pacifica Palm Hotel - Growable CS3 (5x2)_aedf4049.SC4Lot (NDEX - Pacifica Palm Hotel - Growable CS3 (5x2)_aedf4049.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - PanPacific Building - Growable CO3 (6x6)_2e87dd27.SC4Lot (NDEX - PanPacific Building - Growable CO3 (6x6)_2e87dd27.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Tiberian Thanefirst - Growable CO3 (5x4)_cfa64291.SC4Lot (NDEX - Tiberian Thanefirst - Growable CO3 (5x4)_cfa64291.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Warriott Grissom Place Hotel - Growable CS3 (5x4)_8ebfabdf.SC4Lot (NDEX - Warriott Grissom Place Hotel - Growable CS3 (5x4)_8ebfabdf.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Wilkshire Tower - Growable CO2 (4x3)_2f0073d1.SC4Lot (NDEX - Wilkshire Tower - Growable CO2 (4x3)_2f0073d1.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX - Zhang Ghee Center - Growable CO3 (5x2)_ef5a1d9a.SC4Lot (NDEX - Zhang Ghee Center - Growable CO3 (5x2)_ef5a1d9a.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX_DTB_CO_Sidfeldt_Grow.dat (NDEX_DTB_CO_Sidfeldt_Grow.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX_DTB_CO_VanBoktt_Grow.dat (NDEX_DTB_CO_VanBoktt_Grow.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX_DT_MontaukGasCo_Grow.SC4Lot (NDEX_DT_MontaukGasCo_Grow.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
NDEX_EBDT_Zeniathus_Grow.dat (NDEX_EBDT_Zeniathus_Grow.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Raika_MitsubishiCrystalPile_ee1ad055.SC4Lot (Raika_MitsubishiCrystalPile_ee1ad055.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
Superstar's Westpoint Communications.dat (Superstar's Westpoint Communications.dat)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\Dependencies\CAM textures & dependencies
I-m3_3x5_SG_SmallWarehouses01_0fa1bf1f.SC4Lot (I-m3_3x5_SG_SmallWarehouses01_0fa1bf1f.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\SmallWarehouses
I-m3_3x5_SG_SmallWarehouses02_4fa1c003.SC4Lot (I-m3_3x5_SG_SmallWarehouses02_4fa1c003.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\SimGoober\RLS\Industry\SmallWarehouses
I-m2_6x5_jes_CrumblyCheeseFactory_b1cab99b.SC4Lot (I-m2_6x5_jes_CrumblyCheeseFactory_b1cab99b.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\BSC\jestarr\CrumblyCheeseFactory
I-m2_3x5_jes_StoneGroundMustardFactory_f1d78a0b.SC4Lot (I-m2_3x5_jes_StoneGroundMustardFactory_f1d78a0b.SC4Lot)  found in D:\Documenti\SimCity 4\Plugins\BSC\jestarr\StoneGroundMustardFactory

RJ, I really hope that soon you will open a thread about next CAM release. I'm very curious to see what's boiling in the pot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 19, 2008, 01:58:47 AM
I'll give the baton to Barby and let her finish the texture relay... ::)


Quote from: 0rion79 on October 19, 2008, 01:49:01 AM
1 - thanks for the patch! What do I have to do with the Coit tower blocker? Delete it?

Yes, you can delete it.
You won't need the Coit Tower Blocker, since it's included in this latest one. ;)


Quote from: 0rion79 on October 19, 2008, 01:49:01 AM
And one last question (I hope). Sorry if I make silly ones, but I prefer asking than messing up the game. Fixing errors is much more difficult than preventing them. This is the list of detected files from Cleanit Tool, using the file that you have sent me. Are they really useless? ()what()

Yes, those are inCAMpatible old lots that you shouldn't use with CAM.
Instead, use the CAMeLots that are available on the LEX.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 19, 2008, 02:07:20 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on October 19, 2008, 01:58:47 AM
Yes, those are inCAMpatible old lots that you shouldn't use with CAM.
Instead, use the CAMeLots that are available on the LEX.

OK, I'll try... I think that they should be only the leftovers when I have download the needed files for preventing brown boxes.

RJ, just to know... is it possible to "downgrade" a city from CAM to Vanilla game?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 19, 2008, 02:27:31 AM
I found a base texture error on the three Forestry fields. I have updated the pack on the LEX  (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=951) but optionally if you are happy using Reader you can remove one of the texture property lines. Look at each lot in Reader and find the lines that start with 0x00000002. Look at the last rep and delete the property that has 0x25db0000 as the last IID.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 19, 2008, 02:39:29 AM
No, it is too complicated for me, sorry. Instead, may I have the link, please? The reason is that I've download so many files at once that I don't know what I do have to search.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 19, 2008, 03:01:27 AM
Click on the link in my post. Where it says "pack on the LEX"
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 19, 2008, 03:22:04 AM
Quote from: 0rion79 on October 19, 2008, 02:07:20 AM
RJ, just to know... is it possible to "downgrade" a city from CAM to Vanilla game?

In theory, yes.
Any CAMeLots (stage 9 and above) that might already have grown would still be functional, even if you removed CAM.

However, I cannot predict how the RCI development simulator would work after that... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sim-al2 on October 19, 2008, 07:18:05 AM
I predict *BOOM* to the simulator. I probably wouldn't end well.

I noticed that the spell checker was in Spanish. Not surprising considering that the site admin lives in Spain, but since the rest of the site is in English....
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 0rion79 on October 24, 2008, 02:10:36 AM
I have tried to use the extra-cheats DLL to trigger an option called "plopAllBuildings" (or whatever) and I have seen that the game has placed all buildings, 1 x model, in my map. I have also seen that there are some brown boxes but that have the names of the landmarks available only on EA official forum.

The point is that I have a 2nd-hand copy of the game, that was already registered and I cannot re-register with my copy, even if I'm legally entitled to do so. Is there any way to get them legally? If no, I will survive to it :)

Also, I have seen that there is a set of other buildings, like "Log home - april" or "cradock", which are not landmarks but I have never seen in the game before. Are they required for using the CAM?

Thanks!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on October 24, 2008, 02:43:42 AM
You can legally get the landmarks from zelgadis' site. The ST page to read is http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=105&threadid=80054&enterthread=y
We are hoping to host the landmarks in the support section here but they have not been posted yet.
April Loghome and Craddock are growable lots from Colyn - CSX so you may see them in game at some point.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on October 25, 2008, 12:05:31 AM
Hopefully someone can help me again. You all seem to be so knowledgable here. Anyway, I have all the CAM dependencies and everything grows in my city. The problem I have is that the 3 fountains that are supposed to become unlocked when I have 1 residential or commercial CAM, or 10 industrial CAMs won't become unlocked. I tested this on a new city, flat land, had 10k industrial and I counted atleast 20 ACME Pencil Factories but the reward fountains are still greyed out so I can't see the statistics.

Anyone know what might be wrong?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 25, 2008, 01:59:20 AM
The ACME pencil factories (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=840) are also available as stage 2 lots (I-D and I-M).
Thus, those are not CAMeLots.
I guess you'd still have to wait for the CAMeLot park a while longer... ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on October 25, 2008, 12:08:34 PM
The test city has been running for a couple of hours now. I have lots of CAM lots up but still no counter. I have a 4 or 5 shiny towers called CO$$_11_(something)_Tower, A lot of ID Stage 6, and Stage 4 lots (yes their names have ID-Stage-4-ACME Oil Co. in it). Still no fountains unlocked. Also I have noticed that when I try to querry the buildings, I don't get a pop-up window, just the sound.

-Kracky
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 25, 2008, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: Kracky on October 25, 2008, 12:08:34 PM
Also I have noticed that when I try to querry the buildings, I don't get a pop-up window, just the sound.

That means you haven't got BSC Essentials (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=443), which is also essential for CAMeLots to be counted. ;)

Note however, that once you've installed BSC Essentials, none of the existing CAMeLots will be counted.
Only those that grow after you install BSC Essentials will be counted.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on October 26, 2008, 11:57:20 AM
Problem fixed!  &hlp

Thank you! &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on November 02, 2008, 07:25:30 PM
Ok I've got a new problem with the farms. I cant seem to find this texture/prop anywhere (I've even tried google/yahoo).

This is from Betania Fruit Farm, I have downloaded all of the dependencies and everything except this are fine.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi230.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee45%2FKracky_Bucket%2FLemonsbytheBasket.jpg&hash=765b54fc334b538e3a8fc636e9b03e5fedb8d91f)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on November 03, 2008, 01:47:42 AM
The item that appears to be missing is actually from the same prop family as the baskets of oranges on the right so if one is there then the other should be. I can only suggest you re-install BSC MEGA Props D66 Vol02 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=556)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on November 04, 2008, 12:09:18 AM
Nope, didn't help to redownload that. Also now theres another brown box next to it for the limes :P

EDIT:I re-downloaded BSC BAT Props - MBEAR Vol03 (don't remember why) and now the brown boxes have disappeared. Were the lemons and lime props there and not in MEGA Props D66 Vol02?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dafiden on November 04, 2008, 10:46:16 AM
I noted that simgoober's W2W Chicago BSC pack has a few growth stage 8 lots.
http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1339 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1339)

It was updated a while ago, but he says that "The statistics have all been balanced using wouanagaine's X_Tool."

Does this mean it is CAMpatible?  Or, do I need to delete the growth stage 8 lots?

Thanks.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 04, 2008, 10:49:59 AM
They are CAMpatible, as is everything available on the LEX. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: dafiden on November 04, 2008, 01:30:03 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on November 04, 2008, 10:49:59 AM
They are CAMpatible, as is everything available on the LEX. :thumbsup:

Really?  Cool!!!  Thanks.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on November 07, 2008, 03:52:46 PM
Hi, sorry that all I do is ask questions (I did answer one though ;D). This time I was wondering if there is an easy way to change the name of the CAM lots that grow. I have lots of buildings whos names ar R$$ Big Tower, or ID7 Large Factory, and the only way I can think of changing them to removed the R$$ or ID before there names is to use Lot Editor. Is there any other way?

Thanks,
Kracky
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 07, 2008, 04:07:32 PM
I'd recommend iLive's LEProp (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=657). ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kracky on November 08, 2008, 02:21:19 AM
which files should I be looking at to change the name of the CAM lots that grow?

-Kracky
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 08, 2008, 03:57:43 AM
If it's a single upload, the filename includes the name that appears in the game.
If it's included in a larger (starter/creator) pack, I'd recommend looking for it here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: apetrouser on November 08, 2008, 02:12:42 PM
I just happened upon it this afternoon, and this CAM business is making me drool.  ()stsfd() I'd like to start using it this evening, but I'm confused about the best way to handle my huuuuge existing plugins folder.

I will be getting rid of all the Stage 8 downloads I can identify (as recommended), but what about the Stages 1-7 buildings?  I've read that they should still work, but wouldn't their occupancy/jobs values cause possible demand problems too (since CAM readjusts these)?  And are the CAMified downloads here dependent on stuff from the original downloads from STEX/elsewhere?  Or is everything (like model files) included with the packs here?

The thought of starting over with just strictly CAM- and CAMpatible lots just about makes me cry, but I'm really tempted to gut everything and start fresh with ALL my downloads (perhaps just keeping civic buildings, parks, and recreation - and of course keep a backup in case I change my mind).  Is that what you experts would do?  Should I get rid of my dependency folders too?

TIA!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wouanagaine on November 08, 2008, 02:30:29 PM
It would be good to clean all original lots
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bob56 on November 08, 2008, 02:34:18 PM
dont get rid of your dependencies! Those shouldn't be affected, and you will need most of them for camElots!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on November 08, 2008, 02:43:17 PM
Welcome Apetrouser

Well I had a huge plugin folder when CAM was released and as long as you follow the relevant
readme instructions things should be ok.

You'll find a Cleanitol file in most DL's from the LEX to be used.
If you DL the Cleanitol application you will find one of the best and handiest tools created by our GOD
ALL BOW to Wouanagaine ( we are not worthy)
This will be a considerable aid in your quest.

If you decide to renew your plugins (do indeed keep a backup :thumbsup:) then at least you know
you will be up to date with the latest files.

I wish you luck in your quest and if you have any questions just ask
(think logically and post in relevant thread) - someone will help

:satisfied:
TTC

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 08, 2008, 02:49:51 PM
Quote from: apetrouser on November 08, 2008, 02:12:42 PM
but what about the Stages 1-7 buildings?  I've read that they should still work, but wouldn't their occupancy/jobs values cause possible demand problems too (since CAM readjusts these)?

If they are properly modded, old stage 1-7 buildings shouldn't cause any problems.
Whether old lots are properly modded is another question though...


Quote from: apetrouser on November 08, 2008, 02:12:42 PM
And are the CAMified downloads here dependent on stuff from the original downloads from STEX/elsewhere?  Or is everything (like model files) included with the packs here?

Unfortunately we were not granted permission by certain batters to upload mega packs on the LEX.
In those cases you will still need to download the SC4Models elsewhere.
However, do not install anything else from that download. No SC4Lot files and no SC4Desc files. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: apetrouser on November 08, 2008, 03:34:47 PM
Hey, thanks for the quick replies!

QuoteUnfortunately we were not granted permission by certain batters to upload mega packs on the LEX.
In those cases you will still need to download the SC4Models elsewhere.
However, do not install anything else from that download. No SC4Lot files and no SC4Desc files.

You mean for those buildings and things that were created before CAM, and just updated since then to be CAMpatible?  I would assume I can find this info in the readmes for each download?

All I need now is to think up a good excuse for avoiding human contact the rest of the weekend. I like my cities' sims better than real people anyway (even if they do suck at driving to work ::)).

Thanks again, I'm giddy to start playing with this!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 08, 2008, 03:41:04 PM
Quote from: apetrouser on November 08, 2008, 03:34:47 PM
You mean for those buildings and things that were created before CAM, and just updated since then to be CAMpatible?  I would assume I can find this info in the readmes for each download?

Yes, it is mentioned in the readme for each of those.
You might also get some help from the thread this quote comes from:

Quote from: RippleJet on August 14, 2007, 03:59:28 PM
If the Model File is included in a previously uploaded lot (on STEX or a Japanese site), you only need the file that contains the batted model from that upload. Normally this is a SC4Model file, but in some cases it might be a DAT file. In no cases will you need any SC4Lot files, SC4Desc files or custom queries contained in the original upload, or any dependencies mentioned for that upload.




Quote from: apetrouser on November 08, 2008, 03:34:47 PM
All I need now is to think up a good excuse for avoiding human contact the rest of the weekend. I like my cities' sims better than real people anyway (even if they do suck at driving to work ::)).

:D
Have a nice weekend! ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: fantnet on December 03, 2008, 08:20:32 PM
When will CAM 1.1 be released?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bwatterud on December 03, 2008, 08:31:53 PM
When it's ready. 

EDIT:  Is that even in the pipeline? 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 04, 2008, 12:12:48 AM
Quote from: bwatterud on December 03, 2008, 08:31:53 PM
EDIT:  Is that even in the pipeline? 

No, it isn't... we're jumping directly into 2.0 ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pat on December 04, 2008, 01:24:43 AM
We're getting a 2.0??? NO WAY!!! that is sweeet!!!!  &apls :thumbsup:  ;) :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: choco on December 04, 2008, 12:59:54 PM
eternal commuter fix? 



*looking for the crossed finger smiley?**
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on December 04, 2008, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: choco on December 04, 2008, 12:59:54 PM
eternal commuter fix? 



*looking for the crossed finger smiley?**

Unfortunately, it's not fixable from outside the executable.  However, as a side effect of its work, the RTMT Team will have a type of workaround available in the form of express subways, probably early next year.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: fantnet on December 04, 2008, 02:47:34 PM
When do you think it will be availabe?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 04, 2008, 02:59:26 PM
IWBRWIIR ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: andreharv on December 08, 2008, 08:42:41 PM
This was probably asked sometime before but would anyone have an idea as to why demand would have bottomed out here?  The city is large and contains around 10 neighborhood connections.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg257.imageshack.us%2Fimg257%2F4258%2Fwhatsupwiththis2jo7.th.jpg&hash=a68cb53925eeae2818c3082145f5b30704c797d3) (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whatsupwiththis2jo7.jpg)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 09, 2008, 03:13:15 AM
Quote from: andreharv on December 08, 2008, 08:42:41 PM
This was probably asked sometime before but would anyone have an idea as to why demand would have bottomed out here?  The city is large and contains around 10 neighborhood connections.

Yes, it has been asked before, every now and then ever since SimCity was released.
And as far as I know, nobody has been able to explain it yet.

I have myself at times experienced an unwarranted decline in residential demand similar to the one you have here.
At least in my case it was applicable only to one city though. Do other cities in your region have the same problem?

I'm glad you posted a Census Repository report of it, as that will at least enable us to discard some possible reasons...


Would there be any negative desirability factors for residentials?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: andreharv on December 09, 2008, 11:34:41 AM
Thanks for the insight RippleJet.  You were right about the city exclusivity.  I wanted to make a realistic sized region of 32x32 and in the two large city maps that I started, the populations are not the highest but nonetheless, the residential demand tanked.  I checked desirability and it was red as the devil.  Since my last post, I have destroyed the city and I will finish the surrounding cities so that all the network connections are established and then build it back slowly so that I can more easily pinpoint the problem.  So far, I created 3 cities: One residential and one commercial.  The residential city has a pop of almost 350,000 and the commercial, 565,000 jobs.  The cities are connected with a monorail line and an avenue.  Both receive between 25,000 to 35,000 commuters each.  Because of the logjamming traffic this causes, and the fact that virtually nobody has abandoned due to commute times yet, I know that in the city that tanked, commute time was not the issue.  I'll keep you guys posted if I figure this thing out because it is pretty annoying. ??? &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Vdub4life on December 09, 2008, 10:51:38 PM
First post, hope this is the correct thread.

In the manual it says you will soon find all civic facilities, etc... are too small in terms of capacity, and to try the LEX.  I've checked for some Civics buildings there, but I'm not sure which ones are CAM friendly so to speak (unlike growables labelled as CAMeLOT, I don't see any similar labelling for the civics on the LEX.  What civic ploppables are recommended, or has anyone done analysis and have some stat guidelines for altering current civic buildings?  Does anyone still use easytweaker for that sort of thing?

I don't want to end up needing hospitals and schools every block to keep up with the stage 9-15 density/population increase.  Though I don't want to blindly alter the Civic buildings and end up unbalancing the simulation either.  The reason I d/l the CAM is IMO it's the most thought out addon for balancing the game.

P.S. I'd like to download some STEX lots I had before.  Would it be safe to assume C & R lots say levels 1-5 probably wouldn't throw the balance of CAM off?  I'm thinking 6-8 may have values to close to buildings that are stage 9+ with CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 09, 2008, 11:07:00 PM
No, they are not marked in any special way...
These are the most obvious ones though:


JBSimio's next School Pack will also contain something bigger... ::)


Quote from: Vdub4life on December 09, 2008, 10:51:38 PM
P.S. I'd like to download some STEX lots I had before.  Would it be safe to assume C & R lots say levels 1-5 probably wouldn't throw the balance of CAM off?  I'm thinking 6-8 may have values to close to buildings that are stage 9+ with CAM.

Stages 1-5, even stages 1-6 are in general balanced enough to work with CAM. Some stage 7 and most stage 8 are not.
Just be careful, since there are even skyscrapers growing as stage 1 available on the STEX... $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: fantnet on December 18, 2008, 02:44:01 PM
I have been using CAM for close to a year, and now I finally have been having some success in getting my cities to contniue grow. Right now I have a ton of CS$ demand with not real way to satisfy it. I want to edit some of my lot with a increase of jobs, can this be done without causing the sim to have growth issues in the future?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 18, 2008, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: fantnet on December 18, 2008, 02:44:01 PM
Right now I have a ton of CS$ demand with not real way to satisfy it. I want to edit some of my lot with a increase of jobs, can this be done without causing the sim to have growth issues in the future?

Yes, if you increase the capacity of any lot in the game without increasing also its growth stage, you will be causing issues.
That lot would not upgrade to any higher stage, if that higher stage building has a capacity that's lower than the one you modfied.

It's quite normal that there's a huge CS§ demand as long as education levels are low.
And early on both R§ and CS§ will expand into large areas, before you'd start getting highrises.

Once you do get highrise CS§ (stages 7-8 and higher), those will be reducing the overall demand for CS§.
And do make sure you've got DragonAnime's CS§ CAMeLots. ;)

Eventually, if you get education to rise, CS demand would to a large extent be replaced by CO demand though,
and those small CS§ buildings that you got early on would upgrade into offices.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on December 23, 2008, 05:21:50 AM
hi,

I hope this the right thread to ask a couple questions like this..
I think Ripple might be able to answer this but here goes...

I'm using Cam 1.0...

Anyways I started off with a couple larger agricultural cities..
But than decided to make them a bit more mixed in terms of having some agricultural sections and than some urban
areas.. Of course as many people know the problem with that is the farm population cap which is set at 30 K..
I did increase that to 60 K using the  "census repository vault"..

Eventually the 2 cities grew beyond 60 K even, which was fine, i was satisfied with the number of farms i had
been able to grow in these 2 cities in the agricultural areas i had planned.. To be honest and i'm not sure other
players get into this but I really enjoy the challenges of trying to create a mix sorta city like this where you can
have both some farming areas and also some urban areas in the same city tile.. I noticed roads with heavier traffic
and traffic noise seems to have the biggest effects on farms..Such that when you query a farm.. lets say its
"Barthelet stables" for example..If you had set it up with the proper conditions than you should see a current jobs
setting of 16/16 or hopefully 15/16 which would still be quite good.. Again the first number in that setting
represents the maximum number of workers given the conditions you have in place around the farm..Anyways as
development near the farm increases and traffic noise increases you will see this number start to drop off..
it will usually do so gradually.. Im not sure zone development near the farms itself is the culprit but as I said it
does seem to be more directly related to heavily used roads very near to the farm and traffic noise in general..
So you do have to be quite careful how you zone near farms and I think particularly how you handle traffic
patterns near them , if you dont want them to go abandoned..

so my first question is besides traffic noise which I have already identified.. does development and zone density in general have a negative effect also on existing farms or is it only traffic noise which effects them ?
It would seem perhaps the proximity of heavier development might to certain farms rather than there being some
sort of overall city tile effect..on all farming.. unless its just the traffic and traffic noise which is the culprit..


But My second question concerns EQ...
I will give the example of my larger agricultural city which currently has an average EQ of just 80..
If I were to work on gradually increasing the overall EQ ib the city now that I have the farms established in it
that i desire..would this have a negative effect on the farms already in place ?
So lets say I could eventually double the EQ in this city from 80 to 160 ?
as long as my overall population is quite high in the city, amd i still going to have plenty of farm workers with this
higher average EQ , same as i had before.. Or would raising the EQ this much have some kinda detrimental effect on the existing Farms which i have already built in this city ?


Thanks, Brian
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 23, 2008, 06:03:02 AM
Quote from: b22rian on December 23, 2008, 05:21:50 AM
I think Ripple might be able to answer this but here goes...

::)


Quote from: b22rian on December 23, 2008, 05:21:50 AM
so my first question is besides traffic noise which I have already identified.. does development and zone density in general have a negative effect also on existing farms or is it only traffic noise which effects them ?
It would seem perhaps the proximity of heavier development might to certain farms rather than there being some sort of overall city tile effect..on all farming.. unless its just the traffic and traffic noise which is the culprit..

The neighbouring zones (proximity to other RCI types) have no effect on farming desirability.
Traffic, air pollution and garbage have the biggest desirability impact on farming.

I'm listing all desirability factors for IR below, with their maximum/minimum effects:


Land Value
0
    +10
255
+0
Traffic Effect
0
+50
255
    -50
Trip Length Effect
0
+15
255
-15
Crime Effect
0
+10
255
-10
Air Pollution Effect        
0
+50
941
-50
Garbage Effect
0
+50
        4096
-50
Radiation Effect
0
+0
1
    -2000


Quote from: b22rian on December 23, 2008, 05:21:50 AM
Or would raising the EQ this much have some kinda detrimental effect on the existing Farms which i have already built in this city ?

Raising the EQ will reduce IR demand, which as such will not cause every existing farm to abandon right away (just like existing ID can continue to operate even if you raise their taxes to 20%). However, over time you will slowly realise that the farming capacity would be dropping.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on December 23, 2008, 09:25:40 AM
thanks a lot ripple.. :satisfied:

You always get the best and most detailed answers to questions, posed here.. &apls

Happy Holidays !,

Brian
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mrochester on December 29, 2008, 03:41:35 AM
Hi all,

I've had a hunt around to see if I can find a solution to my problem, but nothing has worked so far.  I'm playing a region where I have 1 large city, and 1 medium city.  When I start another new city, the residential demand in that city drops to -6000 immediately (for $, $$ and $$$).  This means that my city has a population of zero, as no houses are ever built on the residential areas I zone.  However, industry and commercial grows just fine. The same thing happens regardless of whether I start a new city next to my other cities, or on the other side of the map (so it's not the 'connections' between the cities causing external commuters, if I understand correctly).

Can anyone help?  I've spent about 2 years (no, literally) building up this region, and I want to continue playing it until it is full, but I cannot with this negative residential demand.

Please help!

Thanks,

Michael.

EDIT - Apologies, I should have mentioned that the problem goes away when I remove CAM from the plugins folder.  Does anyone know what it might be about CAM that causes this?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 29, 2008, 06:12:16 AM
Quote from: mrochester on December 29, 2008, 03:41:35 AM
EDIT - Apologies, I should have mentioned that the problem goes away when I remove CAM from the plugins folder.  Does anyone know what it might be about CAM that causes this?

Yes, this is an annoyance with CAM.
Modifying the RCI exemplars for CAM for some reason results in the game thinking that the regional residential and workforce capacities are doubled, compared to the truth.

Thus, with CAM 1.0 you will need a lot more commercials and industrials than otherwise.
And, unfortunately, this will also lead to several of these work places not having any employees.

Since they don't require workers to function, these won't upset the simulators though.
But you will need to provide more jobs with CAM than without it.

CAM 2.0 will address this, but unfortunately the only way seems to be to patch SimCity_1.dat directly.
This will however also lead to CAM 2.0 not being fully CAMpatible with CAM 1.0. &mmm
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bobsuga on December 29, 2008, 08:06:34 AM
Just wanna say something about those civics RippleJet posted , some of those have too small capacity for huge cities. Still havent found anything that can replace  mercy general ( http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=121 ) or deadwoods Roadtop Subway Stops (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=481)  , althrought those are also gettin crowded. Thought about making my own , but I lack skill to do it  &ops
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 29, 2008, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Bobsuga on December 29, 2008, 08:06:34 AM
Just wanna say something about those civics RippleJet posted , some of those have too small capacity for huge cities. Still havent found anything that can replace  mercy general ( http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=121 )

Thanks for reminding me about Colyn's Mercy General.
However, the Mercy General's patient capacity is "only" 50,000.
The capacity of the Bywater Springs Medical Facility (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1676) is 155,625. :)


Quote from: Bobsuga on December 29, 2008, 08:06:34 AM
or deadwoods Roadtop Subway Stops (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=481)  , althrought those are also gettin crowded.

Cogeo's RTMT 3.50 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1057) includes versions with higher capacities, especially for CAM. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bobsuga on December 29, 2008, 09:25:20 AM
Thx for those , but Bywater Springs Medical Facility  doesent work for me . It has ambulance funding 0 , and when i ploped one in my city it got 2xx,xxx patients (overcrowded) so i plooped another one and it got exactly same amount of patients. plopped 6 of those and they all had exactly same amount of patients and were overcrovded , while 6 mercy generals were working fine ...

p.s. deadwoods lots have 6k(subway+bus for road) and 13k(subway + bus for avenue) capacity , but they dont have so many options as Cogeo's RTMT 3.50 ...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 29, 2008, 09:42:21 AM
Quote from: Bobsuga on December 29, 2008, 09:25:20 AM
but Bywater Springs Medical Facility  doesent work for me . It has ambulance funding 0 , and when i ploped one in my city it got 2xx,xxx patients (overcrowded) so i plooped another one and it got exactly same amount of patients. plopped 6 of those and they all had exactly same amount of patients and were overcrovded

Thanks, Bobsuga, for that info! :thumbsup:

There do indeed seem to be some errors in the Bywater Springs... strange that nobody has reported about it before... ::)
There is no Monthly Cost for the Ambulances, that's the reason for the zero funding.
The radius is thus fixed at the maximum of 8960 m, or 560 tiles, covering more than your complete city.

These errors are probably due to an error in PIM-X, which i will have to take a look at.
Thanks for bringing it up! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on December 29, 2008, 10:21:49 AM
Quote from: Bobsuga on December 29, 2008, 08:06:34 AM
Just wanna say something about those civics RippleJet posted , some of those have too small capacity for huge cities. Still havent found anything that can replace  mercy general ( http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=121 ) or deadwoods Roadtop Subway Stops (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=481)  , althrought those are also gettin crowded. Thought about making my own , but I lack skill to do it  &ops

My favorite huge hospital is Newman Inc Memorial Hospital II (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=11066&v=1), with a capacity of 150,000.  It covers most of a large tile.

As for the RTMT stations, while RTMT V3.50 has a whole set of high capacity stations, testing has shown that they needed even higher capacities for all the high capacity simulators.  So for RTMT V4, there will be new, higher capacities.  Meanwhile, since the changes are all in a single file, I've attached a copy here; it's the same file I distribute with Simulator Z.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: LoneRanger on December 29, 2008, 10:24:30 AM
RJ, why are there buildings/models included to the CAM with no nightlights like Maybush?
It strikes me as odd that a BSC mod lets in a building/moddel that has no nightlightning or am I doing something wrong?
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the CAM and can't live play without it but it's bugging me to see those dark buildings at night.
The models however are very good, don't get me wrong at that.  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 29, 2008, 02:25:15 PM
Quote from: LoneRanger on December 29, 2008, 10:24:30 AM
RJ, why are there buildings/models included to the CAM with no nightlights like Maybush?

They are very old models, which have never been nightlighted.
They were simply CAMified as such, in order to keep them available for the game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bobsuga on December 30, 2008, 02:26:35 AM
No problem RippleJet, always glad to help  :P. Can you post here when u fix it ?

Thanks Z , those highier capacity stations where exactly what I needed ;D. Now only if I could see where I want to plop they..... Stupid skyscrapers  :angrymore:. Anyway , this made me think a bit. Is it possible to replace  half underground view maxis put for ploping subway stations for something like zone view, cos it s hard (read impossible) to see roads from all those skyscrapers ?

Newman Inc Memorial Hospital II has capacity I need , but it is huge :P, I just dont have room for it ...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on December 30, 2008, 02:42:17 AM
Quote from: Bobsuga on December 30, 2008, 02:26:35 AM
Is it possible to replace  half underground view maxis put for ploping subway stations for something like zone view, cos it s hard (read impossible) to see roads from all those skyscrapers ?

This is a common problem.  The best solution I've found is to go into zones view, see where you want to put your station, click on the station, and move your mouse to where you were looking.  The game takes a second or two to leave zones view, so you have plenty of time.  For verification that you're in the right place, check the price of the station; if you're over a building by mistake, the price will be way too high.  But if it's not, just click to plop.  And if you want to plop another one of the same stations nearby on the same road, just move your mouse where you think the road is, and use the pricing to make sure you're centered properly.  Intersections show up as "Already occupied."
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bobsuga on December 30, 2008, 02:45:21 AM
Yeah , I am doing it like this , but it s long and I usually spend half play time to plop stations  :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on December 30, 2008, 02:59:34 AM
The other way to go about things, which is the way I build most of my stations, is to plan the city beore hand (or at least a section of it), lay out the streets and roads, and even the zoning if you wish.  But before you let the Sims start building away, plop all the stations you know you'll need, right in the regular view.  This is very quick.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shovelmonkey on December 31, 2008, 10:34:14 PM
Hello, I'm new here, though I have CAM, and all the dependencies installed. Great package, I must say. I hadn't played sc4 in about 3 years up until I found my copy of the game in some boxes in our storage unit about two weeks ago. When I first played the game I hadn't realized the custom content potential that you guys have so excellently exploited! I'm very glad I decided to take a crack at the game again.

My question, for some of you veterans, is how do you lay out your industrial zones for maximum success? I try to avoid just filling areas with blank high density industrial zones (I hate all the little 1x1 lots that pop up), and try to ctrl drag my zones instead to attract larger industries to those parcels. I've been having mixed success, however. Generally, starting out and into a moderately sized industrial city I'll try to lay out my zones in 3x6, or larger patterns. I have problems with getting all the lots to fill, though. I'll get some to populate while other similarly sized zones just sit stagnate. I have no such problem with residential or commercial zones, so this frustrates me abit.  :'(

A second question while I have your attention: what methods do you use to control pollution in your industrial cities, will the high pollution even affect anything long term in a purely industrial city? Barring taxing out dirty industry, I have found no solution to this.

Any tips, comments, etc., would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bobsuga on January 01, 2009, 07:59:30 AM
Here is how I do it: I first plan main avenues and neiberhood connections , and i simply lay high density zones normally ( I know i should start smaller , but I just want to do it fast as possible  :P). Only if I want special larger factory to grow , I zone with ctrl. About stagnate zones , check demand and freight trip time. If freight trip time is long simply create  neiberhood connections or some freight train stations, or seaport....

Pollution control can be though in a ID and IM city (IHT doestn have those problems  ;D). When I create an industrial city i dont worry about air pollution for ID and IM ( again not too much of a problem with pure IHT city). Only thing u need to worry about is water pollution. Water pumps need to be placed as far as possible from industries , and as you fill tile with zones , u should consider plopping a couple of water treatment plants in order to keep pumps running.

Pollution doesent have any long term  effectand it is gone as soon as factorys are gone.Often when I want to expand my cities I just rezone industrial citys to commercial or residential without problems.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shovelmonkey on January 01, 2009, 10:16:28 AM
Thank you for the response. Here comes the extreme noob question &ops : How do I check freight trip times?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TheTeaCat on January 01, 2009, 10:19:09 AM
Use the query tool on an Industrial building ;)
It will tell you in the info window that opens ;D

:satisfied:
TTC
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tag_one on January 01, 2009, 01:12:56 PM
Hi shovelmonkey, I usually zone an area of 8x12 tiles surrounded by roads for industrial development. This size is big enough for large buildings and works also well for smaller 2x3 buildings. The area behind the small buildings is mostly filled with small 1x1 lots. Imo this looks quite good. When an industrial area develops further the small ones make usually place for bigger buildings.  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: neville_bartos on January 01, 2009, 04:00:43 PM
I've downloaded a number of individual buildings from Simtropolis and when i unzip the file i get various .lot, .dat and model files. What do i actually do with them?? So far i've just been keeping the model files and moving them to a folder in my plugins but i've got a feeling that this is wrong as they're not growing!!!!

Also, can someone explain the whole density qustion and how you encourage skyscrapers to grow. So far i've been only been able to grow a couple and mypopulation has stagnated at 55k! Any ideas how i can boost the population too???

Thanks
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on January 01, 2009, 06:27:48 PM
Assuming you have a population of 55,000 with no neighbouring cities, then it is not nearly enough for the huge buildings to grow. These require populations of at least 200,000 or more, even up to 1.2 million for the very largest buildings. I will explain the idea of stage caps to you. Stage 8 buildings, for example, are not CAMelots, but some are included with the pack. They require a regional population that is a certain amount. For example, if the next stage limit is at ~500,000, then you need a population of 500,000 for that certain type of development for that stage building to grow. If that stage limit of 500,000 is residential, then your regional residential population must be at least 500,000.

Also, for your stagnating population question: Did you place parks? Are your hospitals/schools covering your residential areas and are sufficiently (enough so that the capacity exceeds usage, though it isn't required to be too much above) funded? Have you checked crime levels? If they are high (about 30-40 unreported crimes a month), you should use the data views to find out the worst areas. You sould also check garbage levels. This is one that I forget a lot. You should build a waste to energy plant in a neighbouring industrial city, make sure there is a neighbour connection, then in a few months, there should be your utilities advisor telling you about a neighbour deal involving garbage.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shovelmonkey on January 01, 2009, 06:31:33 PM
Excellent, thank you very much for the replies. You all have already multiplied my industrial success and satisfaction greatly.  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: platyfish124 on January 01, 2009, 06:36:08 PM
Yep, I always place a 6x4 grid of streets before I expand. The grid that Maxis provides is... useless, to put it mildly. I like to place a 6x4 grid mainly because it is the perfect grid size to accommodate those pesky rectangular services.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: neville_bartos on January 02, 2009, 03:23:59 AM
Ok thanks.

Anyone have any ideas on what i do with all these files???

For example, for the Azuriko Plaza i get a growable.dat, plopable.dat and a model file.
I've put the model file in a folder i called "model" in my plugins but i don't know what to do with the rest! I want all my buildings to grow as opposed to being plopable!
Also, when i get a query file, where do they go?

Thanks
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Bobsuga on January 02, 2009, 03:37:04 AM
All new cities I start are planed , but problem persists in my older cities :P...
Well , I like to create small villages , and grow they step by step to huge urban cities , so my grid (in most cities) is everything but perfect... And the way diagonal streets and grid work is just terrible :p . Maxis should have made zones fit with diagonal roads...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on January 02, 2009, 04:57:07 AM
If you have downloaded the CAM starter packs from the LEX then all you need is the model file. The CAM CO$$$ pack contains a CO$$$ stage 11 that uses the model. If you keep the growable.dat from the original upload then it will start growing at the wrong time as it is an old file and pre-CAM. Thus it will be a maximum stage 8 and probably has poor stats as well.
Many of the original lots were set to grow in all densities too so you could end up with a skyscraper in a rural city.
If you get a query file it should go into the root of plugins.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: neville_bartos on January 02, 2009, 09:58:42 AM
ok, cheers!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Eliteforce on January 11, 2009, 06:54:09 PM
All of my cities with CAM have an insatiable appetite for CS-$ and CS-$$  The bars are maxed out all the time, even though my education levels are over 100, they have not budged one bit.  Is this supposed to happen?  Anything I can build to dull this?  (something with several thousand CS-$ jobs???)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 11, 2009, 11:18:42 PM
As long as there are R§ people in your city, you will have a demand for CS§, and
as long as there are R§§ people in your city, you will have a demand for CS§§.

One reason it seems like CS§ demand can never be fulfilled, is the fact that those lots often upgrade to CS§§ or CO§§.
Once a lot has reached a higher wealth level, it can only degrade into § if it first dilapidates.

You might get some drop in CS§ and CS§§ demand, once you start getting hi-rises of these, mostly hotels.
Otherwise, I'd simply ignore the demand. The R§ and R§§ Sims are equally happy working in CO and industries as well.

In general, the erroneously doubled regional workforce that CAM sees, is the main reason for the high demand overall.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 24athome on January 12, 2009, 12:01:44 PM
Hi all,
This may have been discussed before but I can't find the solution any where.
The problem is that I am not getting any CO$$$ growth in any of the cities no matter what. The Demand for CO$$$ is maximum, I have Parks and Fire stations but no CO$$$ growth, not even the non CAM buildings. 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 12, 2009, 04:34:00 PM
Plazas and landmarks are better than parks in promoting CO§§§.
Check the desirability map for CO§§§ and plop some plazas where the green is most green.
Plant some trees in the area as well to provide some transient aura effect.
Also make sure there's no crime and no garbage where you want CO§§§ to grow.
And finally, next to a busy road is a good place to start building your commercial district.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sumwonyuno on January 13, 2009, 12:52:49 AM
I understand that CAM 2.0 won't be "fully CAMpatible" with CAM 1.0, but how so?  What would it mean for CAM lots and 1.0 regions?  The only thing I've heard is that 2.0 requires that simcity_1.dat be patched. 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 12:56:20 AM
The fixing/removal of the doubled residential regional capacity and workforce gives too big an inpact on the demand... effectively, the demand simulator would suddenly realise that half the population is gone.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on January 13, 2009, 03:44:46 AM
To me in the cities im playing.. the demand bug hasnt been the worst thing that has happened..
and i know for a fact others would agree here,,
But what the demand bug has caused to happen for me, is the sky lines in my cities are that much larger
and nicer looking..because you have the increase in the commercial sky scrapers..

Anyways to me its a nice choice your offereing players..Continue with your cities as they are with cam 1.. OR-
Start up new cities with cam 2, and expect reduced sized sky lines :)..
that you have now gotten used too..

Brian
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 03:47:03 AM
Quote from: b22rian on January 13, 2009, 03:44:46 AM
OR-
Start up new cities with cam 2, and expect reduced sized sky lines :)..
that you have now gotten used too..

That will depend on which version of CAM 2.0 you'd select ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 13, 2009, 04:21:14 AM
Which version?  Please, do tell more!  :o
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on January 13, 2009, 05:27:41 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 03:47:03 AM
That will depend on which version of CAM 2.0 you'd select ::)

WOW, are you serious ripple !
Boy.. I cant wait to hear about that...
that sounds awfully exciting to me... :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 06:07:56 AM
Quote from: z on January 13, 2009, 04:21:14 AM
Which version?  Please, do tell more!  :o

Just some ideas floating around... but most probably...


The last one is for those who otherwise would cheat to get up up up... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: b22rian on January 13, 2009, 06:55:42 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 06:07:56 AM
Just some ideas floating around... but most probably...


  • Rural CAM 2.0 - for those who don't want skyscrapers
  • Standard CAM 2.0 - similar to CAM 1.0, but without the doubled regional capacitites
  • Skyscraper CAM 2.0 - for those who want hi-rises sooner in the game and don't want sprawling suburbs

The last one is for those who otherwise would cheat to get up up up... ::)

Ripple...

Obviously a great deal of thought has been put into this since cam 1 was put out.. in terms of making
cam 2 enjoyable to the widest range of gamers possible... Thanks Much ! &apls

Brian
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: catty on January 13, 2009, 10:35:53 AM
I like the sound of the Rural CAM 2.0  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: wouanagaine on January 13, 2009, 11:18:46 AM
Did I miss something ? CAM 2.0 is out ???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on January 13, 2009, 11:24:43 AM
I dont think so wou, Tage is just teasing us.... :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 11:25:07 AM
You didn't miss anything... $%Grinno$% ...yet!
Unless the "X Tool" is out...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 46Bit on January 13, 2009, 11:40:40 AM
Unless the "X Tool" is out...
Quote from: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 11:25:07 AM
You didn't miss anything... $%Grinno$% ...yet!
Unless the "X Tool" is out...

*raises eyebrows* Huh? Is it out then... where?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: JoeST on January 13, 2009, 11:46:49 AM
its not... another teaser ;)

these guys are what you may call Masters in the art
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 46Bit on January 13, 2009, 12:12:15 PM
Quote from: JoeST on January 13, 2009, 11:46:49 AM
its not... another teaser ;)

these guys are what you may call Masters in the art
lol, in this case it's more of a torture than a teaser  :'(
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sumwonyuno on January 13, 2009, 03:05:39 PM
Oh, I knew that (halving regional capacity).  Though it sounds somewhat like the opposite of the situation I had with the removal of the residential halver.  I was thinking inCAMpatible along the lines of not being able to use 1.0 lots.  Does this mean I could use 1.0 now, and then "worry" /wrrd%& about any fallout with 2.0 when its released?  But, I would guess it won't be released by the time I finish my current region in the coming months.  Currently in my region, I have abandonment in certain areas because there are aren't enough jobs.  Since I'm basing my region on a real-world layout, I'm under several constraints in how I can squeeze jobs in.  I'm hoping that some of the CAM buildings can address this.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 13, 2009, 05:23:31 PM
Quote from: sumwonyuno on January 13, 2009, 03:05:39 PM
Does this mean I could use 1.0 now, and then "worry" /wrrd%& about any fallout with 2.0 when its released?  But, I would guess it won't be released by the time I finish my current region in the coming months.

You can safely keep playing your CAM 1.0 region, for months... and keep downloading CAMeLots.
And do not fear... every current and every future CAMeLot will be CAMpatible with both 1.0 and 2.0. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on January 13, 2009, 10:00:11 PM
hmm... i believe i'm already too hyped up for NAM... and now there's a new CAM... xD

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
Thank you RippleJet for the reply.  :thumbsup:
I had plazas (what I ment by parks), no garbage, desirablity showed very green (it can't get any greener), every thing was perfect for Co$$$. Co$$$s were developing fine before CAM. Then I realized the "before". So I had to let go of my well developed (I spent 1 year) region and started new region. Now Co$$$ develops. But not as fast as before CAM. I get the feeling that one has to be patient with CAM but the rewards of later stages are pleasing  :).
I do have some questions:
1) Is having larger plazas or more than one plaza (or parks for residentials) more helpful
2) Parks cap for industrial, can it be any park or has to be a plaza?
3) why did my city suddenly started fast growth after I built my first Elementry school. There is no Education Cap, is there?
4) I had problems with eternal communter, the manual gave detailed explaination. Now I have cities linked as if in single line but:
a- I have cities that are only residential (R) or only commericial&industrial (CI) so will I have the same problem if I have links line R1 - CI1 -CI2 - R2 -CI3 - CI4 -R1
b- Is having only residential cities and only work cities good or bad with CAM?
c- Do ferry routs take communters to other other cities?
5) Is functional landmarks mod by toroca inCAMpatible? Is there a way to know if a mod (not mentioned in the manual) is confilicting with CAM?

Thanks once again.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 14, 2009, 03:26:40 AM
Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
1) Is having larger plazas or more than one plaza (or parks for residentials) more helpful

Yes


Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
2) Parks cap for industrial, can it be any park or has to be a plaza?

Any park, plaza or sports field will do. ;)


Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
3) why did my city suddenly started fast growth after I built my first Elementry school. There is no Education Cap, is there?

No, but plopping a civic building provides transient aura effect.
There's more to read about that here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5282.msg171031#msg171031).


Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
4) I had problems with eternal communter, the manual gave detailed explaination. Now I have cities linked as if in single line but:
a- I have cities that are only residential (R) or only commericial&industrial (CI) so will I have the same problem if I have links line R1 - CI1 -CI2 - R2 -CI3 - CI4 -R1

There are always civic jobs in a pure residential city as well, so the risk of eternal commuters is always there.


Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
b- Is having only residential cities and only work cities good or bad with CAM?

It's more a matter of taste and commute time.
Specialized cities work equally well with CAM as with RH.


Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
c- Do ferry routs take communters to other other cities?

Yes


Quote from: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 02:09:29 AM
5) Is functional landmarks mod by toroca inCAMpatible? Is there a way to know if a mod (not mentioned in the manual) is confilicting with CAM?

Toroca's mod is CAMpatible, but be careful not to plop more than you have demand for:
Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not? (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4297.0)

Any mod that changes the growth stage or capacities for in-game RCI buildings is inCAMpatible.
As well as all mods that change the RCI and development exemplars...
Most of those should have been identified and listed by now though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 24athome on January 14, 2009, 12:36:31 PM
Thank you once again.

I have a much clearer picture now.

Just the eternal commuter issue needs further clarification. If my cities never form a loop, so that once commuter go out they have no way of comming back from a city other than they moved to, will I still have the issue? I mean is it possible to line any number of cities as long as a loop is not formed?

By the way, being consumed in my confusion, I forgot to thank the CAM creators for the exceptional effort. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 14, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
You need a loop in order for the eternal commuter problem to be able to happen.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Eliteforce on January 17, 2009, 10:13:05 AM
A new problem has risen for me now :(

I currently have 2 cities one is 150k pop and the other is 500k pop  I want to start building more cities around them, but the desirability for all residential is as low as it can go and will not budge, no matter how many thousands of jobs I make for it. (40k C and 40k I).  I have built schools, parks, and everything that would make the desirability go up.  Is there any solution to this???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 17, 2009, 11:13:53 AM
Depending on your HQ you have a workforce between 40% and 60% of that population.
And with CAM's doubled regional residential capacity you would need to have 80% to 120% jobs for those.

In other words, for a balanced situation with a population of 650k, you'd need some 550k to 750k jobs in your region.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: callagrafx on January 17, 2009, 11:20:19 AM
Shouldn't you be enjoying the sun? Maybe we should get Barby to ban you for a few weeks, for your own good.... :D :D :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Eliteforce on January 17, 2009, 02:10:09 PM
Well, I raised up my jobs level and now the city with 140k has really low Residential desire too!

Region Census:
Residential population: 833029
Commercial population: 663985
Industrial population: 194519

That is well over 100% population/jobs ratio.  and my city that was 500k, I've upped it to 650k and it does fine on Residential desirability.  I really need help, I can't grow any of my other cities' population!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 17, 2009, 04:53:07 PM
This sounds like lingering effects of the problem RippleJet described.  If you cut your tax rates in the affected residential types to 2%, they should shoot up within four months.  You might not even have to go as low as 2%, but if you start there, that will tell you if you're on the right track.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Eliteforce on January 17, 2009, 09:36:51 PM
I dropped my taxes down to 4% and that pretty much did the trick, I still won't get any high desirability for a while, but at least my pop has jumped up to 80k there.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: WC_EEND on January 21, 2009, 06:21:58 AM
I think the new NAM doesn't like the CAM  :'(

EDIT: solved the problem, it turned out to be a plugin conflict
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on February 12, 2009, 07:19:25 AM
I seem to remember some extreme demand boosters being created a long time ago around when CAM first came out. I had them in my plugins folder, but just recently realized they seem to have disappeared from my plugins. Is there still a copy of these files somewhere?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cowochina on March 03, 2009, 03:20:04 AM
my population won't grow but the commercial grow very2 high

is that wrong? my population only grow 80K in medium sized city
and my city before i installed cam is grow 600K in medium sized city.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 03, 2009, 03:54:38 AM
Quote from: cowochina on March 03, 2009, 03:20:04 AM
is that wrong?

No, but a bit unreal... unfortunately CAM 1.0 does lead to more jobs than there's workforce.
All due to the erroneously doubled regional residential capacity that the simulator sees because of CAM.

Thus, with CAM 1.0, you will need to zone more commercials and industrials in order to provide that surplus of jobs.


Quote from: Kitsune on February 12, 2009, 07:19:25 AM
I seem to remember some extreme demand boosters being created a long time ago around when CAM first came out. I had them in my plugins folder, but just recently realized they seem to have disappeared from my plugins. Is there still a copy of these files somewhere?

Due to the increased demand for jobs in CAM, I would refrain from using any demand boosters.
The commercial demand will be there even without using a any boosters.

If you, despite that, still want to use RalphaelNinja's Radical Demand Ordinance, search the mods section on ST. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on March 03, 2009, 05:46:24 AM
I found the ones you created a long while ago so alls good now.  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cowochina on March 04, 2009, 02:48:49 AM
Thanks ripplejet so i must zoning more for Commercial and Industrial right?
and the population will be bloom.  :)

is there any CAM 2.0?  ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 04, 2009, 03:01:08 AM
Quote from: cowochina on March 04, 2009, 02:48:49 AM
is there any CAM 2.0?  ::)

Only in my mind so far... the latest beta version is 1.0.5. ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cowochina on March 04, 2009, 11:21:24 PM
thanks

i started a new region and the population grow fast
not reach until 100k
but it's better, not minus 6000
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on March 05, 2009, 12:31:22 AM
hmm... i believe some ideas should be turned into reality... soon... =O

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on March 05, 2009, 07:06:15 AM
A couple of questions...

One, is there any counter that'll show me how many stage 1's to 8 I have? Reason being is what I want to see how close I am to getting a camelot. Also, am I right in assuming the stage 1 to 5 is low density, 6 to 10 is medium density and 11 to 15 is high density when zoning?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 05, 2009, 07:23:57 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on March 05, 2009, 07:06:15 AM
One, is there any counter that'll show me how many stage 1's to 8 I have? Reason being is what I want to see how close I am to getting a camelot.

No, those cannot be counted,
unless someone adds appropriate Occupant Group numbers to all existing stage 1-8 buildings... ::)


Quote from: Kitsune on March 05, 2009, 07:06:15 AM
Also, am I right in assuming the stage 1 to 5 is low density, 6 to 10 is medium density and 11 to 15 is high density when zoning?

Not exactly...
For residentials and commercials it's the height of the building that sets whether they grow on low, medium or high density only:


Low Density
Height < 25 m
Medium Density   
Height < 100 m

Thus, a hi-rise placed on a very large lot (e.g. 6×6) may become a stage 5 or 6, but still wouldn't grow on medium density.
Industrial buildings grow on medium density if they are stage 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, otherwise only on high density.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on March 05, 2009, 10:05:18 AM
ah so thats how it works, thanks.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mike3775 on March 05, 2009, 10:21:06 PM
Call me stupid if you like, but I got back into playing SC4 last September off and on, and now I am playing it almost every day and I love CAM alot.

My main issues I have been having is I am getting brown boxes everywhere in cities, I have downloaded every single dependency that is available on the list Diggis created, and have gone through and searched for a few lots on here, at ST, and at Pegs sites and cannot find them anywhere.

I get brown boxes for the Major Jolly, Wendy Tudor, Themba Tudor Ole, Allen Avenue, and the FF Telecommunications Headquarters buildings, and I have downloaded everything that is included in the read me's that came with those files, and yet I still get brown boxes. 

If anyone can help I would appreciate it, as the brown boxes are overwhelming my residential city, and its annoying


This may be late, but I applaud the people who came up with the CAM though, I really love it, and have enjoyed playing the game far more than I used to pre-CAM
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cowochina on March 06, 2009, 03:20:57 AM
how many citizens required to CAM to work normally. now my region has 100K and still not work normal. it's a new region. i need 1000K?? ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on March 06, 2009, 04:15:06 AM
CAM doesn't have a set population where the mod would work properly. The mod works "out of the box", that is, it takes effect immediately after it's loaded.

If there is high demand I advise building up or creating new cities (just be careful about the eternal commuter issue). If the demand is low, however, perhaps you may want to consider building some of the Maxis Reward Buildings, parks, or civic services to stimulate demand.

You may also want to add more of the higher stage buildings if you find that your skyline can't grow and your population has reached the necessary stage limits.

@ Ripplejet:
I know that Maxis rewards are necessary to relieve some caps (in fact demand sometimes goes up 100% after plopping), but in some cases I feel like if I need alternatives. One good example is the cemetery... gah I hate that ghostly effect that it gives off sometimes.

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on March 06, 2009, 06:38:39 AM
Quote from: mike3775 on March 05, 2009, 10:21:06 PM
I get brown boxes for the Major Jolly, Wendy Tudor, Themba Tudor Ole, Allen Avenue, and the FF Telecommunications Headquarters buildings, and I have downloaded everything that is included in the read me's that came with those files, and yet I still get brown boxes. 

The model for FF Telecommunications Headquarters is Frogface TelecommunicationsCentre-0x5ad0e817_0x6d2ea386_0x840000.SC4Model, which can be found here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3633).


Quote from: allan_kuan1992 on March 06, 2009, 04:15:06 AM
I know that Maxis rewards are necessary to relieve some caps (in fact demand sometimes goes up 100% after plopping), but in some cases I feel like if I need alternatives. One good example is the cemetery... gah I hate that ghostly effect that it gives off sometimes.

The cemetaries actually don't even provide any CAP relieves.
If you want residential CAP relieves, plop parks instead.

If you still want the cemetaries, without the ghosts, Gwail requested a Ghostbuster not too long ago...
Who ya wanna call? ::)  Herewith attached! :)  Should I upload this one on the LEX as well? ::)


EDIT:
The version of Ghostbusters that was attached to this post only removed the zombies, but not the ghosts. $%Grinno$%
An "improved" version of Ghostbusters is now available on the LEX (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1994). :D

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi232.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee198%2FRippleJet%2FRJ-Ghostbuster.jpg&hash=2bb9cf06dbf785987d45a9285b713dfc1469da65) (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1994)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mike3775 on March 06, 2009, 11:52:22 AM
Thanks Ripplejet.  I just downloaded a bunch of other dependency's from the lex that were not on the list, so I hope that fixes all the other box issues I have.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on March 06, 2009, 12:42:12 PM
The models for the other lots are in CSX MEGA Props - Vol05.dat (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=463)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mike3775 on March 06, 2009, 02:21:15 PM
Thanks Barby.

I redownloaded it again, and still have the brown boxes

I also get a box saying when the city starts, I am missing the following plug in packs 258941242, 1301989023, 1870402416, 1920423013, 261420880
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on March 06, 2009, 02:26:16 PM
Can you tell me exactly which downloads you installed with the lots for the brown box files? I need to check that I haven't missed including something in the uploads.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mike3775 on March 06, 2009, 03:58:29 PM
Quote from: BarbyW on March 06, 2009, 02:26:16 PM
Can you tell me exactly which downloads you installed with the lots for the brown box files? I need to check that I haven't missed including something in the uploads.

CSX Farm Fields Forestry Vol01  -  I redownloaded and installed this when I was getting boxes on the Major Jolly Farm
BSC Farms CSX Vol01 Revised - I still get brown boxes with this(something about mushrooms)
BLS Housing - 8 x 8 BSC, BLS Housing - 6x6 BSC - these I am not sure which one gave me the Allen Avenue building, but that is the only thing I am getting a brown box on(I used to get brown boxes on The Pits and Poets Corner as well, but those went away after I realized I was missing one dependency.)


I appreciate all the help you have been giving Barby, I really do
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on March 06, 2009, 11:49:20 PM
There are two mushroom farms in the CSX Farms. The model for one is in CSX MEGA Props Vol06 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=633)
The model for the other mushroom farm and the one for Allen Ave is in CSX MEGA Props Vol01 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=459)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mike3775 on March 07, 2009, 06:34:02 AM
Thanks again.

Could my issues be related to the fact that I tend to place lots into general folders after they are installed(like all CSX lots into a CSX folder, NDEX into an NDEX folder) in the plugins folder?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on March 07, 2009, 07:03:32 AM
It shouldn't matter as long as you have all the dependencies in play.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mike3775 on March 07, 2009, 08:48:24 AM
This is weird.  I redownloaded files that I had already downloaded, and for some reason, they work fine now

Thank you Barby, I think I am going to re-download everything I downloaded back in September/October(I started playing again then, then stopped in November and recently started playing again in feb) and see if that solves it, since I re-downloaded both those lots you posted last time and it solved the issue, even though I had already installed them once before
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SimFox on March 08, 2009, 04:36:27 AM
If I may I would like to return to Bywater Springs Medical...
It seem to have a lot of jobs - 5193 in total (1037$$$, 3114$$ and 1042$) is it another fluke of X-Tool or is this a conscious decision?

The idea is interesting - sort of creating big Public sector as a new force in the whole equation of demand and supply.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Jonathan on April 10, 2009, 12:44:58 AM
All the links in the CAM CS$$$ 13 Readme are wrong. So what are the actaul links?
EDIT: It's amazing what a search box can do ;)

Also I think it would be worthwhile to have had the dependencies links to the entire CAM starter packs in one file, this would be much easier.

But since I downloaded the CAM I have had a lot more fun in the game, and have actually played the game for the majority of the day, without wanted to go and change something, so thanks for all the work you guys put into the CAM :thumbsup:

Jonathan
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Meltrik on May 08, 2009, 09:07:03 PM
First, the CAM looks great!  I am excited to give it a whirl -and to that end, I have a few questions as I am having difficulty getting a city to grow.

I have noticed people having skyscraper jungles in 50 years -that may be using cheats, I don't know.  I am running the NAM and the CAM, and I can't get anything past about 70k.  And its 60 something years later (sad, I know).

From reading posts, I figured it was a problem with the double residential bug -so I figured I needed twice as many jobs as I originally thought; but now I can't get those to grow either.  I am playing on a large tile and have used about a fourth of it -should be sprawling out more?   In vanilla SC4 I would be getting high-rise tenements galore by now by forcing growth upwards, but apparently the CAM doesn't work that way.  Do I have to sprawl out before anything will grow up?

I would prefer to run the city as legitimately as possible, so I have not used any demand cap mods or anything other than CAM or NAM. 

I would appreciate any direction -or to be pointed to a thread where these questions have been answered time and time again.

Thanks much!  And again, well done with the CAM!  &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 10, 2009, 06:52:59 AM
Quote from: Meltrik on May 08, 2009, 09:07:03 PM
Do I have to sprawl out before anything will grow up?

Yes, you will need to sprawl out more! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tag_one on May 10, 2009, 11:02:19 AM
Hi Meltrik, 70K isn't much if you want to grow some skyscrapers. If I'm right you'll now have a lot of low rise and some mid rise buildings growing in your city. When you city has about 100K residents you can expect your first highrise buildings to grow (when there's enough demand of course) To get a real skyscraper forest your city should have at least 200K residents. Don't worry about the game years, you'll have plenty of time ;) Besides that now that your city has more residents, your buildings will become larger so that your population grows much faster :)

Oh and never hesitate to build some parks and some rewards. They are good for your city.
Good luck have fun with growing your first CAMeLOTs  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ayrus on May 10, 2009, 01:28:18 PM
Btw I have been wondering, when using CAM, does non-CAM or non-CAMpatible buildings grow or are they prevented from growing? I don't really care about what stage they grow at. I just want more variety in my skyline.  :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on May 10, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
There's nothing in CAM that prevents other types of buildings from growing.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: czkimi on May 22, 2009, 11:20:28 PM
I think this city would be a terrorist. :-\
It's like forest of buidings $%Grinno$%
Cities' development by leaps and  bounds with shorten time, :P
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: el player on May 24, 2009, 12:14:38 PM
well
i am downloading some files in the lex and when i download this:
http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1300

i cant find this dependences:

AkasakaPrinceHotel-0x5ad0e817_0x7334ff2e_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/ap/GrandPrinceHotelAkasaka.zip
AlAttarTower-0x5ad0e817_0xf26d1e4a_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/aa/AlAttarTower.zip
LighthouseTower-0x5ad0e817_0xd2fc9475_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/li/LighthouseTower.zip
NajdTower06-0x5ad0e817_0x7267abab_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/res/na/NajdTower.zip
ShinjukuMitsuiBuilding03-0x5ad0e817_0xf0cffca9_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/s_mi/ShinjukuMitsuiBuilding.zip
ShinjukuNomuraBuilding05-0x5ad0e817_0x345ed9ee_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/s_no/ShinjukuNomuraBuilding.zip
ShinjukuSumitomoBuilding04-0x5ad0e817_0x70f840ab_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/s_su/ShinjukuSumitomoBuilding.zip
SompoJapan03-0x5ad0e817_0x50f9425f_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/s_sj/SompoJapan.zip
ToshibaBuilding-0x5ad0e817_0x5332840e_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/to/ToshibaBuilding.zip
TwoPrudentialPlaza-0x5ad0e817_0xd460b9df_0x30000.sc4model;http://chilitomato.net/com/pru/TwoPrudentialPlaza.zip

you can upload that in another server ?


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 24, 2009, 12:40:10 PM
Those lots were probably made before we got permission to upload ks_jpn's models onto the LEX.
All those models are now included in his MEGA packs.

Check this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0) for precise information about which megapack you'd find each model in.

I'd recommend downloading all his model packs though (just search the LEX for creator ks_jpn) ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: imperialmog on May 24, 2009, 08:54:54 PM
I was noticing in the mod that CO$$$ only appears immediately after placing a park or similar building and won't after that. If I bulldoze the CO$$$ building it will never appear again unless I bulldoze and rebuild the park. Is this the only way to get these types of buildings or will they grow normally at a certain point? I can't tell if desirability is high enough since the map overlay isn't adjusted to take into account CAM levels so it all is bright green. I also was thinking if there are requirements in city or region population size as well to get CO$$$ buildings?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on May 25, 2009, 05:00:47 AM
It may be a little difficult to attract the first CO$$$ buildings.
As soon as they start appearing, they help attract others though.
Proximity to other CO$$$ buildings is one positive factor of desirability.

Rather than plopping parks, you should plop plazas of landmarks.
They have the best effect in increasing CO$$$ desirability.
Without plazas around, you will probably not get many CO$$$ buildings.


Quote from: imperialmog on May 24, 2009, 08:54:54 PM
I also was thinking if there are requirements in city or region population size as well to get CO$$$ buildings?

There are no population requirements.
However, in order to get CO$$$ to grow beyond stage 9, you must have a park or plaza nearby (within 20 tiles).
In order to get CO$$$ to grow beyond stage 12, you must have a fire station nearby (the lot must be within the coverage area of at least one fire station).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: imperialmog on May 25, 2009, 05:16:55 PM
I take it with the plazas certain reward buildings will also help out in CO$$$ desirability?

Now is anyone looking into changing the scale of the desirability overlay map to make it easier to read how much more desirable you need for certain developments? I have seen this done with traffic congestion with a transportation mod and wondered if something similar can be done with desirability to scale it for CAM where it's easy to see if something is at least at abondonment or develop levels.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on May 25, 2009, 05:35:49 PM
You might want to take a look at Dataviews: Increased Detail Mod v1.0 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21365).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on August 18, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
Should I wake up this thread?

Okay... there are various industrial buildings made by SimGoober on my computer. One of them is Hanson Hosiery Mills. However, there isn't just one version of it... in fact there are two, both released by the BSC in separate packs (one with the Simgoober Industrial Packs, the other in the CAM packs).

The separate files contain a significant difference in jobs despite the fact that both are CAM:
2601 IM (Mega Pack)
3576 IM (CAM File)

This makes me think that other buildings in the Simgoober packs may have issues as well. One particular example is SG Fabrications, which appears to be larger than Hanson Hosiery Mills in building volume but contains around 1500 less jobs. A solution in the form of updated lots is highly recommended as my region has skyrocketing demand and it's hard to satisfy it in the limited space available even with the use of skyscrapers and high-density industry.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: nothelle on September 06, 2009, 10:57:47 PM
My city CO$$$ development is stuck @ stage 13, I could not get stage 14 building growing.  My current pop is 2.5 mio, with Commercial and residential zoning only.  I used radical ordinance because somehow my health & education buildings capacity messed when the population entered 2 million, always overcrowded no matter how many hospitals and education buildings I put into the city, (even the modified one with far larger capacity).  Anyway previously I tried to develop it into 3 million population without radical ordinance but the result was the same, no stage 14 CO$$$ buildings.  CO$$ and CS$$$ seems to be working fine, you can see stage 14 & 15 growing.

I already checked all the lot & model file, they are all there.  At first I thought it was plugin problem so I redownloaded all the buildings according to the list here and its dependencies, restarted the city from zero, but as you can see they are all stuck @ stage 13 (250+ buildings).  Demand, desirability are still positive.  Any idea how to solve this problem?

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi806.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy343%2Fnothelle%2FImg2_resize.jpg&hash=4287c2ea4c92a5dae87a03e717a10a1541895cf4)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi806.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy343%2Fnothelle%2FImg1_resize.jpg&hash=ac7cf7470d5cd32fd92323c1264f8ed3572e949a)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 06, 2009, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: allan_kuan1992 on August 18, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
Should I wake up this thread?

Certainly. :thumbsup:
It just took a while for me to wake up as well... &ops


Quote from: allan_kuan1992 on August 18, 2009, 06:14:17 PM
This makes me think that other buildings in the Simgoober packs may have issues as well. One particular example is SG Fabrications, which appears to be larger than Hanson Hosiery Mills in building volume but contains around 1500 less jobs. A solution in the form of updated lots is highly recommended as my region has skyrocketing demand and it's hard to satisfy it in the limited space available even with the use of skyscrapers and high-density industry.

Without looking into these specific buildings, I can probably say that the differences are due to the earlier CAMeLot packs being made when the concept with Filling Degree was rather new. Also, large industral lots need a higher Filling Degree to include sheds and other smaller buildings as props around the main building. This was often not considered when the first CAMeLots were made (the X Tool was in its early development back then).


Quote from: nothelle on September 06, 2009, 10:57:47 PM
Demand, desirability are still positive.  Any idea how to solve this problem?

Nothelle, are you still using Simulator Z Ultra?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: nothelle on September 07, 2009, 12:03:26 AM
Ripple: Yes, but this is a new city with different layout.  I had no problem with sim Z Ultra with this one, but had to work gradually from standard, Z low up until Z ultra to create enough traffic in the co area.  I couldn't get high enough traffic on the previous city because zoning were too dispersed across city, same technique, I used standard, z low up until z medium to get enough desirability in the co area, but as soon as i used z ultra (standard and modified by z), CO$$$ plunged and I couldn't find a way to get them high enough until I finally gave up on that city.  On these one, only 25% of the co desirability are below 100, but mostly i could get them in the 120's and 130's.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on September 07, 2009, 12:19:54 AM
I should mention that in the latest beta (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=6122) of Simulator Z, the Ultra version has had its Customers/Traffic Noise Coefficient raised from .04 to .07, which is the value in the modified version that I gave to nothelle.  Even before this change, I checked my cities, which were all using Z Ultra, and CO$$$ desirability was always at least 130 on the buildings that I looked at.  I also haven't heard of this problem from anyone else, so I think that there's something else at work for nothelle, although I have no idea what it is.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 07, 2009, 01:10:14 AM
There are still rather few stage 14 and 15 CO§§§ towers available.
Especially for lot sizes 3×3 and 4×3, stage 13 is the highest available.

Have you downloaded all available stage 14/15 CAMeLots (listed below)?
And do you have zones matching these lot sizes?


Quote from: shoreman905 on August 14, 2007, 04:06:03 PM
5. Commercial Office §§§ CAMeLots


Lot
Size
    Lot Name
Growth
Stage
    Download CAMeLot hereDownload BAT Model here
3x4
IJL Export EB
14
CAM Commercial Offices BSC    (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)IJL Financial Center (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=3238)
4x4
Personify Plaza
14
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)Personify Plaza (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4075)
4x4
Tragicomicus Bank One
14
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)Bank One Tower Indianapolis (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=10912)
4x4
PVM2
15
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)HKABT Paulvmontfort MEGA Prop Pack Vol06 (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=743)
5x5
One World Trade Center
15
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)WTC Prop Pack 2 The Twin Towers (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=931)
5x5
Two World Trade Center
15
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)WTC Prop Pack 2 The Twin Towers (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=931)
6x5
Velacosma
15
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)Velacosma Associates (http://www.yuhisa.com/cgi/c-board/file/Velacosma.zip)
6x6
Pan Pacific Building
15
CAM Commercial Offices BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=950)NDEX PanPacific Building By DuskTrooper (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=4535)
7x5
Freedom Tower
15
Freedom Tower (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2121)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: nothelle on September 07, 2009, 02:18:43 AM
Yep, all the lot files n their dependencies are there... i created 6x12 block, but did not specifically create a lot specific to any of the stage 14 & 15 (i.e. 4x4 or 5x5), however if you see other categories (residential, CO$$ and CS$$$), they have no problem going through all the way to stage 15.  However, if my problem is missing dependencies, shouldn't the lot grow with brown box anyway? I Tried to create specific lot to fit any of the stage 14 & 15 buildings,  but eventually another building occupied it.  I seemed to lead myself to very unusual problem with this game?  ;D   Final update: I tried to run it for another 70 years until population reached 3.2 mil, same situation CO$$$ increased to 333 in stage 13, but no stage 14 & 15. 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on September 07, 2009, 06:22:36 AM
Have you remove the old lot files? Since you do have stage 13's, it isn't a cap bug. Perhaps the area isn't desirable enough to grow stage 14's and 15's. That, or RippleJet has done something wrong with the OG's.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: nothelle on September 07, 2009, 07:13:10 AM
Yep.. also tried to remove desc file, as I read it somewhere that it might cause the problem, but no result.  I might have to start again since on my previous city it can result in different buildings being build.  I'm anxious to see stage CO$$$ 14 & 15 buildings and R$$$ stage 15 as well, I'm getting tired of having yelluza & cobb galeria all over.  Another solution is not to use radical ordinance, but as soon as my population reached 2 mil, schools  hospitals are always overcrowded no matter how many buildings I build, another bug as well?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on September 07, 2009, 07:42:56 AM
The desc files are included in the lot files, which are included in the CAM lot files, but since the lot file they refer to is removed, it shouldn't be the problem. I suggest you check all your skyscrapers to see their names, if anyone of those is a stage 14 or 15, it is Tage's fault and he messed up the OG's, if you don't have those, I've got no clue where the problem may lie.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 07, 2009, 03:51:53 PM
Quote from: Korot on September 07, 2009, 07:42:56 AM
I suggest you check all your skyscrapers to see their names, if anyone of those is a stage 14 or 15, it is Tage's fault and he messed up the OG's

You're not that far off the truth, Korot... ::)

First of all, below are the "CAMeLot Growth Stage Occupant Groups" that these stage 14 and 15 towers have:


Lot
  Size 
    Lot Name
Growth
Stage
    Occupant   
Group
3x4
IJL Export EB
14
13
4x4
Personify Plaza
14
14
4x4
Tragicomicus Bank One
14
13
4x4
PVM2
15
15
5x5
One World Trade Center
15
15
5x5
Two World Trade Center
15
15
6x5
Velacosma
15
15
6x6
Pan Pacific Building
15
15
7x5
Freedom Tower
15
15

If you've got the IJL Export EB or the Tragicomicus Bank One in your city,
then those would be listed as Stage 13 by the CAMeLot Counter, even if they are in fact stage 14.

Now, I do make lots of mistakes myself, but only three of those buildings have been modded by me... ::)
One World Trade Center, Two World Trade Center and the Freedom Tower.

I think I'll point another person over to this thread now... :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on September 07, 2009, 03:54:09 PM
 ::) Gee, thanks, Tage. I have to admit to making a mistake AGAIN. I can't do with this. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: nothelle on September 07, 2009, 08:27:18 PM
 ;D Hehe.. no need for blame game. I've read people have no problem with the growth stage, just couldn't figure out why mine didn't work out.  Let me restart the city again and see whether it can have different result, but to my defense all the files were installed accordingly and I've only included buildings in the cam list on this forum.  I've limit all other mod installation to a minimum to prevent more inCAMpatible plugins.  If all else fail then just have to start from scratch again  ;D

One note though... since I only build one city in the entire region, could this be the problem?  But looking at the census, I already have 1.8 mil people working in CO$$$, it should be able to get me at least 1 stage 14 building.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on September 07, 2009, 10:58:28 PM
Quote from: nothelle on September 07, 2009, 08:27:18 PM
One note though... since I only build one city in the entire region, could this be the problem?  But looking at the census, I already have 1.8 mil people working in CO$$$, it should be able to get me at least 1 stage 14 building.

It's the total commercial capacity that sets the limits.
With 2,673,890 you have already surpassed the last threshold of 1,925,586.
Thus, you should have a 9% chance of growing both stage 14 and 15...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: nothelle on September 08, 2009, 03:40:34 AM
I finally find the answer to my own question here... I purposedly create a 6x12 block zones (r,co) and surround them by streets, then divide the block into 2 of 3x12, so all the buildings that appear in the city are mostly 3x4, 3x3, etc.  I changed some the zoning into 4x12 and 5x12 blocks and voila...stage 14, 15 and all new buildings that i've never seen before plopped out ;D  Ripple already mentioned about lot size, but never realized that I have to force it to wake those buildings up...  Thx guys
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GlobalHaze on October 10, 2009, 11:36:29 PM
Don't mean to be a bother, but I've done a little reading and I understand that the problem I am experiencing has already been adressed. However, was the Industrial stage limit on Somy's HT - Industrial Buildings 1 and 2(the high capacity ones), fixed in some future installment of the CAM that I don't know about?  I ask because I've seen Somy's CAMmed buildings in the cities of others, and I'm wondering why I can't get them to show up in my cities.  I have the mod that gives details of actual demand in the query of buildings and see that my HT - Industrial demand does not exceed 12,000.  What I'm wondering(sry for repeating myself), is whether this problem was fixed, and the demand cap...(correct me if I'm wrong, really tired right now)...was raised to 24,000 to allow the growth of Somy's large 6x6 HT - Industrial buildings.  Been trying to figure out what I was doing wrong for about two weeks and why the game wasn't allowing the growth of the buildings, even though I have all necessary requirements, but the problem was lying right under my nose. Any help and or corrections are greatly appreciated.  Also wasn't sure where to adress this to.  I was going to start a new topic, but that's completely unnecessary since there's already been a topic basically asking the same question somewhere on the CAM board.  BTW I am also aware that certain fire, park, etc. caps exist, and that I've successfully grown dozens of Integricultures throughout a region of over 5,000,000 residents, and probably 1.5mil IND. jobs, 90% IHT.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on October 11, 2009, 02:25:49 AM
That fix will be included in CAM 2.0, which will be released eventually, but isn't fixed in CAM 1.0 (the one currently available for Download), though you can fix it yourself in the reader.
To do so, open the CAM file in the reader and select the Exemplar file with IID 0x4400 and ... Which property is the demand property? I can't find it. Hmm... Will do some more searching to find it. I know I saw a post where it was described how to do this. Will be back.

Edit: Found it! Looked in wrong exemplar. To alter the max I-HT demand, open up the main CAM file (in the a_CAM folder) and go down to the bottom of the list, there should be an exemplar with IID 0x4400 and GID 0xc7bb4816, with Exemplar name property Industrial High Tech. There are two property's here which alter demand: Minimum Value and Maximum Value. The last one is by default 12.000 or 0x2ee0. To make it 24.000, alter the property to 0x5DC0, and save the file before exiting the reader.
Edit2: Apparently, some more values need to be altered, see post below.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ponnie on October 11, 2009, 02:41:46 AM
Quote from: Korot on October 11, 2009, 02:25:49 AM
I know I saw a post where it was described how to do this. Will be back.

If I'm not mistaking you're referring to this post:

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7722.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7722.0)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GlobalHaze on October 11, 2009, 08:27:01 AM
Very much appreciated, thanks!

I edited the necessary properties in the maximum values for the demand cap to be raised.  I noticed that the demand bar now rises above 18,000 instead of capping below it, and my industrial demand has gone as high as 18,000 in the detailed demand query, so I know it's working.  So far though, no Somy's, wondering if there's something else I'm missing... 

Just saw my first Somy about 10 mins. after posting.  Hoorah!!

As long as I'm here I might as well ask this, will having "non-CAMmed" buildings in my cities conflict with the mod? For instance Kinzie Tower: a stage 8 4x3 R$$ tower, or Pacwest: a stage 8 4x4 CO$$ tower.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 12, 2009, 10:49:30 AM
Quote from: GlobalHaze on October 11, 2009, 08:27:01 AM
For instance Kinzie Tower: a stage 8 4x3 R$$ tower

With its current occupancy pda's Kinzie Tower should be growth stage 11, instead of 8.
And considering its size, it should have an occupancy exceeding 7,000, and as such it would actually be growth stage 14...

In other words, the Kinzie Tower would grow too early in CAM, and it won't upgrade to stage 9, 10 or 11.


Quote from: GlobalHaze on October 11, 2009, 08:27:01 AM
Pacwest: a stage 8 4x4 CO$$ tower.

Jtportland's Pacwest would be stage 8 even if recomputed for CAM. Thus, it is actually pretty CAMpatible. ;)

On the other hand, you probably do not want to keep the file PacWest_0ee48b66.SC4Lot.
That is one of the infamous landmarks growing on empty lots...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GlobalHaze on October 12, 2009, 12:33:26 PM
Ok, that clears alot up, thanks so much.  I guess I"ll download the X-Tool, and see if I can't use your advice to my advantage.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on October 12, 2009, 12:37:08 PM
The X-tool isn't currently available for download. You'll have to wait until it is either released, or modded to be CAMpatible.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GlobalHaze on October 12, 2009, 12:42:48 PM
Heheh, found that out the hard way.  I need to stop making so many assumptions. 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 09:51:56 AM
Is growth stage 7 regarded as "medium-density" in CAM? This is what I'm guessing, looking at the RCI exemplars.

EDIT: I have another question: All R$$ stage-7 buldings in CAM are 2x2. Does this mean that I need such zones? Will the game stick at stage-6 for R$$ otherwise, or it will skip stage 7 and proceed to stage 8, if some other (which ?) criteria are met?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 26, 2009, 11:18:21 AM
Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 09:51:56 AM
Is growth stage 7 regarded as "medium-density" in CAM? This is what I'm guessing, looking at the RCI exemplars.

If made with the "X Tool", a residential or commercial building would be set to grow on medium and high density zones if the height of its LOD box is 25-100 m.
Normally all stage 7 buildings would fit in here.

However, a skyscraper taller than 100 m placed on a larger lot could very well end up being stage 7.
Such a lot would grow only on high density zones though.


Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 09:51:56 AM
EDIT: I have another question: All R$$ stage-7 buldings in CAM are 2x2. Does this mean that I need such zones? Will the game stick at stage-6 for R$$ otherwise, or it will skip stage 7 and proceed to stage 8, if some other (which ?) criteria are met?

Normally the game would split up existing lots into 2×2 lots if possible and needed.
If that isn't possible, due to the way you've made your zones, then it would actually skip stage 7 for R$$.

That would also mean that there is a suppressed need for stage 7 R$$ to grow.
In other words, as soon as a 2×2 lot becomes available or a differently sized custom lot of stage 7 is installed, you would most likely see one of those stage 7 lots grow immediately.

If you feel that there's a slow-down in development getting past stage 7,
I would recommend you to download a few custom lots to fill those gaps:

Quote from: shoreman905 on August 14, 2007, 04:05:17 PM
2. Residential §§ CAMeLots


Lot
Size
    Lot Name
Growth
Stage
    Download CAMeLot here
 
1x1
Corner Apartments - zero7
7
Z7 Corner Apartments (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2122)
2x3
One21-Apartment Tower
7
One21-Apartment Tower (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1985)
3x3
La Guardia Apartments
7
Sears Department Store (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2093)
3x3
Buder Apartments
7
SHUR Buder Building (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1550)
4x4
Rookery Building
7
SHUR Rookery Building (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1950)


The range of lots that Maxis offered doesn't fill all possibilities, especially after a few of them were moved to stages 9, 10 and 11 in CAM.
E.g. the 5 and 6 tile deep stage 1 R$$$ mansions would never upgrade unless there's a road going around them so that they can split up.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 02:55:29 PM
Tage, thanks for your reply (and the links).

Another problem (or not ?) I have found, is that the R$$$ stage-4 mansions don't grow on medium-density, they need at least medium density zones. But the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property for these is 0x01,0x02,0x03, which means that they should be developing in all zone densities. This however appears to not work (demand and desirability are very high, and my current stage for R$$$ is at least 4 - I get the stage-5 condos too). This is the same in the original simcity_1.dat too (weird). I have tested it with and without CAM and it doesn't work in any case. It seems that the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property can only limit the zone types a lot can grow on. But it has to satisfy the growth stage vs density criterion too (1,2,3=low, 4,5,6=high etc). So I have to repeat the question (under this new light this time), will stage-7 lots grow on mid-density zones or not (it's a similar case). Also are these hardcoded, or there is some exemplar you can edit?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 26, 2009, 03:15:12 PM
Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 02:55:29 PM
Another problem (or not ?) I have found, is that the R$$$ stage-4 mansions don't grow on medium low-density, they need at least medium density zones. But the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property for these is 0x01,0x02,0x03, which means that they should be developing in all zone densities. This however appears to not work

This is something I've never heard of, and thus I cannot verify, nor decline it...


Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 02:55:29 PM
It seems that the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property can only limit the zone types a lot can grow on. But it has to satisfy the growth stage vs density criterion too (1,2,3=low, 4,5,6=high etc). So I have to repeat the question (under this new light this time), will stage-7 lots grow on mid-density zones or not (it's a similar case). Also are these hardcoded, or there is some exemplar you can edit?

There's no other exemplar that I know of that would control that.
If they are hardcoded the way you suspect, I'd be rather disappointed.

I'd be grateful if you could test this further though...
And, in that case, primarily without CAM and for several other lots by Maxis, e.g:

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on October 26, 2009, 03:15:12 PM
If they are hardcoded the way you suspect, I'd be rather disappointed.

I can't find evidence about the opposite, I can only find examples that rather verify this.

I don't have many mansions in my city, but I have loads of R$$. I was surprised to see that some R$$4 lots had grown on LD zones. But then found that most R$$4 lots are actually... stage 3 (check the Growth Stage property). So this does NOT falsify my hypothesis (neither verifies it though). But I have checked all my LD zones and didn't find anything beyond stage 3 there.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 26, 2009, 04:15:42 PM
Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 03:50:54 PM
But then found that most R$$4 lots are actually... stage 3 (check the Growth Stage property).

Indeed, even several R$$5 lots are also in fact growth stage 3...
Never trust the growth stage found in the names of Maxis lots... $%Grinno$%


Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 03:50:54 PM
So this does NOT falsify my hypothesis (neither verifies it though).

No, but all this raises new questions to me...



Thank you so far, Cogeo for noticing this!
I'd be grateful if someone else could verify this as well...
The more testers we have, the better...
And I guess I will have to make some testing myself as well now... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 01, 2009, 11:40:56 AM
Quote from: cogeo on October 26, 2009, 02:55:29 PM
So I have to repeat the question (under this new light this time), will stage-7 lots grow on mid-density zones or not (it's a similar case).

I haven't had much time to look into this so far.
However, while testing BSC Functional Seaports 3.0 today, I did get one stage 7 CO$$$ office to grow on medium density.

The in-game lot CO$$$7_2x3, family 0x40000089 (consisting of Hedman Planners and West & Co, Inc.) is set to grow as stage 7 on zone types 0x05 and 0x06.
It grew with West & Co, Inc. on a medium density commercial zone.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cogeo on November 02, 2009, 02:33:17 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on November 01, 2009, 11:40:56 AM
I haven't had much time to look into this so far.
However, while testing BSC Functional Seaports 3.0 today, I did get one stage 7 CO$$$ office to grow on medium density.

The in-game lot CO$$$7_2x3, family 0x40000089 (consisting of Hedman Planners and West & Co, Inc.) is set to grow as stage 7 on zone types 0x05 and 0x06.
It grew with West & Co, Inc. on a medium density commercial zone.

Interesting! This building family is available in stage-5 and -6 lots, but sized at least 3x3. So this means that medium density zones can grow stage-7 lots too.

I made another experiment, which however rather leads to different conclusions. Duplicated all R$$$ 2x3 stage-4 lots (with new IDs, of course) and changed stage to 3. What happened? All those low-density 2x3 zones grew these lots (until demand was exhausted), while this was not the case before; it clearly required medium density zones.

What do I suspect? The desnity-stage relation finally IS hardcoded, AND the information in the LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes property can only limit growth to certain zone types. In addition, stage 7 is actually considered medium-density by the simulator, but for most stage-7 lots LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes is set to HD only, so these lots do not grow on MD. Don't know, this rather makes sense, but still needs to be verified.

As for the correct assignment of stages and densities, there are some things that haven't been set correctly imo. For example those 2x3 mansions, require at least medium density to grow. They are available in low density, albeit in 3x3 lots, but I think they look "low-density" even on 2x3 lots - could you please verify this with the X-Tool (or what)?. On the other hand, a building that is clearly highrise (R$$$54x24_5ChiLuxCondos13_0150 - Ingebretson) can grow on medium density (stage-6) on a 4x3 lot. I think this thing shouldn't be allowed to grow on medium density, it will dominate the landscape and destroy the area architecturally. And a 4x3 lot is quite easy to be formed (by aggregating two adjacent 2x3 lots). That is the same zone type (medium density) can accomodate buildings that range from clearly lowrise (mansions) to clearly highrise (Ingebretson). This means that the player nearly loses the ability to control development by zoning. To my opinion, medium density zones should only grow really medium-density buildings, eg in the R$$$ case only the Palazzos and Condos.

And I have a suggestion for BATters: it would be great if some BATters make just the BAT (in dimensions similar to the Maxis ones), and the building exemplar(s) (again with stats close to the Maxis ones, and/or adjusted for CAM), ie expand the building families. Tbe Maxis lots are quite good imo, and expanding the building families will solve the problem of repeating buildings (in many cases the game has only to choose amongst 2 or 3 models, esp if you choose only one building style).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 02, 2009, 03:00:14 PM
Quote from: cogeo on November 02, 2009, 02:33:17 PM
As for the correct assignment of stages and densities, there are some things that haven't been set correctly imo. For example those 2x3 mansions, require at least medium density to grow. They are available in low density, albeit in 3x3 lots, but I think they look "low-density" even on 2x3 lots - could you please verify this with the X-Tool (or what)?.

Yes, all mansions, being under 25 m in height, would be set to grow on low density if made by the "X Tool", regardless of the lot size (being 2×3 or 2×2).
They are all set to grow on low density by Maxis as well...
However, based on your experience, I guess they wouldn't grow on low density when their growth stage is 4 or 5?


Quote from: cogeo on November 02, 2009, 02:33:17 PM
On the other hand, a building that is clearly highrise (R$$$54x24_5ChiLuxCondos13_0150 - Ingebretson) can grow on medium density (stage-6) on a 4x3 lot. I think this thing shouldn't be allowed to grow on medium density, it will dominate the landscape and destroy the area architecturally.

I fully agree, and this is one of the buildings that needs fixing in CAM 2.0.
I'm actually thinking of running all Maxis buildings and lots through the "X Tool" for CAM 2.0... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on November 02, 2009, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: RippleJet on November 02, 2009, 03:00:14 PM
I'm actually thinking of running all Maxis buildings and lots through the "X Tool" for CAM 2.0... ::)

I think that's a great idea.  :thumbsup:  I don't think we should be afraid to change the original game in those places where we know we can improve it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tamorr on November 02, 2009, 04:18:03 PM
   That definately would be nice to have some degree of control where certain height buildings grow using the density in mind. Makes making a small town easier, if not rural areas you only want the smaller buildings in the first place. So I'd have to agree that having the Maxis building conforming to this to some degree would be nice for the next version of CAM.
   I was wondering myself about some of the zone density vs. Stage. I'll have to see for myself on this one, even though I am sure that the findings are correct. Just someting gotten see first hand. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GhostBuster on November 03, 2009, 03:49:36 AM
Hey guys, I'm interested in CAM as I have read around and heard good things about it and people say its pretty much a necessity for a big city.
And i've tried to read the manuals and peoples posts, and I am really confused

Could I please just get a fairly simple, to the point explanation of that CAM is, what it does
And a small list of the pros and cons

Like I said I have tried reading the manual and other things but I cant find anything which isn't a bunch of numbers and confusing graphs
Thank you in advance to anyone who bother's/has the time to write anything in response to this post, as I am sure you've done this many times before, even you if just link me to something which is again like I said, is simple and to the point.

Thank you for your time,
Ghost.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on November 03, 2009, 04:22:29 AM
Simply put, CAM has extended the growth stages from stage 8 for R and C and 3 for Industrials to stage 15 for R and C, stage 10 for ID, IM and IHT and stage 7 for IR (farms). You can now have skyscrapers at the right stage in a city's development. You can have better industials at higher stages.
That is the simple answer although the full reply would be more technical.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GhostBuster on November 03, 2009, 04:55:35 AM
So basically it makes the cities devolpment more realistic? Correct me if i am wrong, but would this sort of help the ever annoying abandonment problems? Because they wouldn't be coming when the city isn't ready for them?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: BarbyW on November 03, 2009, 06:31:01 AM
Yes as a rule although there are always many different factors involved. CAM does make cities grow at a more realistic rate providing you use the CAM version of lots not the originals - for example some very tall buildings set to grow at stage 7 or 8 in the original lot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: cogeo on November 03, 2009, 10:37:35 AM
Quote from: GhostBuster on November 03, 2009, 04:55:35 AM
So basically it makes the cities devolpment more realistic? Correct me if i am wrong, but would this sort of help the ever annoying abandonment problems? Because they wouldn't be coming when the city isn't ready for them?

As for the abandonment issues, CAM also incorporates the Less Abandonment Mod by Bones1, which I would suggest that you install, even if you finally decide not to install CAM. It's a brilliant mod, addressing the abandonment and dilapidation issues in a different way: instead of preventing the buildings to dilapidate, it changes the desirability thresholds. The thresholds to get $$ and $$$ development (and to exit dilapidation state) have been raised, and they are above the threshold to cause dilapidation (they were set equal in the original Maxis settings). Ie the desirability ranges are now overlapping. This means that it will be harder to get $$ and $$$ development in the first place, but they can tolerate some drop in desirability without dilapidating. This results in more stable cities and much less abandonment.

Another good feature in CAM is more consistent number of jobs and residents (occupants) in the Maxis lots.

And something that might cause you some concern, cities don't grow that fast with CAM installed, it actually makes the game a little (quite) harder to play. Growth has to go through more stages, population won't grow as fast (at least initially), and you will need more zones to get the same population and jobs. But I think it's worth the fuss.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on November 03, 2009, 12:29:12 PM
Quote from: cogeo on November 03, 2009, 10:37:35 AM
And something that might cause you some concern, cities don't grow that fast with CAM installed, it actually makes the game a little (quite) harder to play. Growth has to go through more stages, population won't grow as fast (at least initially), and you will need more zones to get the same population and jobs. But I think it's worth the fuss.

I'll strongly second that.  And though it may make the game harder, it does so by making it more challenging and more realistic.  And isn't that what most people are looking for in a good city simulator?

Personally, I think that CAM is one of the best mods ever developed for the game.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tamorr on November 03, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
   Personally to me from what I've seen in my own cities, it rather makes things a bit more easier than playing with the default maxis. Plus extends the time it takes to build a city like the others stated. Well to me it made things easier or about the same actually in diffficulty, but made it more bearable to watch the city to grow.

  I personally don't look for the challenge in a city simulator, as I just like watching things grow in it along side minimal city management. To extend to higher skies is to extend the time enjoying the view of development. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GhostBuster on November 05, 2009, 10:20:44 PM
Sorry for the late reply, I was out of town, but thank you

On the point of the less abandonment mod in CAM and its standalone version. Does this address the commute time abandonment problems? I have a growing city going at the moment of 600,000+ sims, running Z Simulator on LOW, the city hosts several highways intersecting it as well as avenues and a well used subway system (Which as soon as i installed it made a massive impact to help, but it still happens), It has two connecting towns, One on the south side which is a strictly residential only city, a a dirty industry town to the north, (My city is aimed mostly at commercial and high tech/non population industry) And I still get them leaving the buildings due to commute times, I find they choose absolutely STUPID places to work but that's a different matter.

Also so I don't make another posts somewhere else, how the customers value with commercial lots work?
I have a problem with my larger office buildings in particular being abandoned due to lack of customers, I only really noticed it once i started using need traffic sims, but how do they effect the number of customers? I am really not sure as to how to combat this?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on November 05, 2009, 11:23:21 PM
Some abandonment problems have been fixed in the latest version of Simulator Z, which is coming out with the next NAM.  However, you can get it here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=6122) now.  Just replace your version of the simulator with the one from the download whose name matches yours exactly.

The number of customers is driven by the amount of traffic around the commercial buildings.  The more traffic, the more customers.  Adjustments have also been made to the new version of Simulator Z to make this feature work better as well.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on November 06, 2009, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: cogeo on November 03, 2009, 10:37:35 AM
And something that might cause you some concern, cities don't grow that fast with CAM installed, it actually makes the game a little (quite) harder to play. Growth has to go through more stages, population won't grow as fast (at least initially), and you will need more zones to get the same population and jobs. But I think it's worth the fuss.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FMonkeys%2Fthz58322848.gif&hash=5d7c5c3f4dc532d5ec374b43c8a2c3e525873292)

Surely there's something we can do about that... (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk301%2Fditareinvented%2FMonkeys%2Fthz72558451.gif&hash=432f032fa646f59c92631ca75a5aec6db0ce7b31)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: GhostBuster on November 08, 2009, 04:29:54 AM
Quote from: z on November 05, 2009, 11:23:21 PM
Some abandonment problems have been fixed in the latest version of Simulator Z, which is coming out with the next NAM.  However, you can get it here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=6122) now.  Just replace your version of the simulator with the one from the download whose name matches yours exactly.

The number of customers is driven by the amount of traffic around the commercial buildings.  The more traffic, the more customers.  Adjustments have also been made to the new version of Simulator Z to make this feature work better as well.
So would the subway system be choking my shops and offices now? As its taking them off the street and underground away from them? As its my second highest form of transportation... Second only to walking, (Yes, walking Where's the Fries? (next time we'll wash your mouth out with soap))
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on November 08, 2009, 08:46:09 PM
Quote from: GhostBuster on November 08, 2009, 04:29:54 AM
So would the subway system be choking my shops and offices now? As its taking them off the street and underground away from them?

Check the Commercial buildings to see for yourself, but my guess is 'Yes'. Try adding more subway stations in the commercial districts, especially in areas close to industrial jobs.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: End_of_Eternity on November 24, 2009, 09:42:30 AM
I was wondering if there is any new info about the new CAM release? Maybe a changelog or something like that? I am just interested in the new things in the new version of CAM.

Thanks,

Vlad
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 24, 2009, 02:07:31 PM

Version
Date
Change Log
1.0.1
2007/11/08  I-HT Demand Range raised from 12,000 to 24,000
Max simultaneous capacity at contrusction raised from 20,480 to 24,576
Neutral tax vs. Population reduced in order to make the game more difficult
Maximum slope per tile in zoning increased from 16 to 20 for medium and 24 for high density
1.0.2
2007/12/27Private version for verifying that the tax parameters can be changed
1.0.3
2007/12/28Tax modifier vs. Rate Variance changed
Difficulty vs. Tax Multiplier changed to make the hard difficulty even harder
1.0.4
2008/01/12Workforce drives removed in order to get rid of the doubled regional workforce
The tax reduction reduced... (more income compared to the previous version)
1.0.5
2008/03/08CAM split up into two parts...
- 1. All RCI exemplars, which have to be patched with SimCity_1.dat
- 2. All other exemplars, which in the future will be split up into three main versions
 Workforce drives added back into the file to be patched with SimCity_1.dat
 AFTER THIS FOLLOWED A LONG TESTING PERIOD WITHIN BSC
1.0.6
2009/03/08Corrected the building developer exemplar, which was buggy
1.1.1
2009/11/07Rural CAM Stage # vs. Size properties finished
The slope effect on desirability taken into use for almost all RCI types
 The IHT demand bug fix included in the patched files
 TESTING OF RURAL CAM STARTED ON SC4D
1.1.2
2009/11/21Maximum I-R demand increased from 6,000 to 12,000
1.1.3
2009/11/23All workforce drives have been revised and changed
Negative traffic effect on I-R desirability reduced
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HappyDays on November 26, 2009, 02:04:12 PM
How interesting. If you're willing to divulge the information, what do you have planned next for changes? Or do you consider the release feature complete and are now just tracking down bugs?

If it's the latter, I'd gladly offer up my region of 10 million (6 in one city, at that!) for the testing. I do recall you weren't entirely sure CAM 2.0 would be compatible with CAM 1.0 regions, so such a massive city would be a perfect test bed for that particular aspect. If, of course, you don't already have a couple of those floating around.

I apologize if my offer is presumptuous.

I noticed you changed the maximum simultaneous capacity at construction number. I had figured such a number existed, as even after I changed the High Tech demand range the super huge Somy's still had some issue growing (Along with several other 20k+ capacity buildings). This leads me to another question...are capacities already used included in the math to figure needs for the next stage's capacity? For example, the Sears Tower and the Pan Pacific Building. The Sears Tower has 16k(ish) capacity, the Pan Pacific 21k(ish).  When the simulator decides to bump a Sears Tower up to a Pan Pacific, does the game look for a spare 6k capacity to build the Pan Pacific, or does the game require the full 21k(ish) capacity (As if the Sears Tower never existed)? In fact, how does demand work in that regard? Does it just look for the demand required to go from 16k(ish) to 21k(ish), or does it require the full amount of demand for a Sears Tower to grow into a Pan Pacific?

If the latter, this leads to some...issues, with very large cities. As the number of a given type increases (CO$$, I-HT, etc), demand caps increase and thus demand drops due to the cap. For the very large buildings, it doesn't take long before the drop in demand via cap makes it nigh impossible to get them to grow outright (Which is the case with any of the Stage 10 20k+ Somy's). The issue with I-HT is especially noticeable, given the ludicrous demand one has for I-HT after getting a large region and the fact, most of the time, Somy's High Rise Farms grow instead of the 20k+ ones. If I may suggest, would it be possible to add another stage or two, or re-balance the stages you already have, to allow the super huge Somy buildings the highest stages and the High Rise Farms (And their ilks) a stage lower? This would allow the High Rise Farms to grow into the 20k+ buildings, because as now, once it hits a High Rise Farm, that's it.

While we're on the subject, I have yet another question about stages. I have a region, as before, with 10 million sims. I can get the final stages of anything, but I do have this small city tile composed entirely of the rich. Desirability and demand are maxed, yet the building stages won't grow past stage 12 (Yes, everything required to break stage 12 has been added). Does this mean only a certain percentage of allowed stages leech off from neighbor cities (Which can obtain stage 15 buildings), or is there a hard cap that always requires a certain number of sims >in< the city to get higher stages regardless of what the region is capable of? Or a combination thereof?

Finally, might I make another suggestion? Increase the maximum demands for Dirty Industry and Manufacturing to 24k, as well. The reason I suggest this is because the Jamison Steel Mill has 21k jobs...meaning it will never normally grow in a city. Super huge lots like these don't show up often, in any form, but you'd certainly take care of all possible future scenarios with this.

(Further apologies if any of these questions are already answered, but I do not recall them being touched upon)

Thank you for your time and effort. Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to the Americans.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on November 26, 2009, 07:02:47 PM
Quote from: HappyDays on November 26, 2009, 02:04:12 PM
How interesting. If you're willing to divulge the information, what do you have planned next for changes? Or do you consider the release feature complete and are now just tracking down bugs?

RippleJet is mostly just doing some fine-tuning on the Rural CAM, as it's in a more open beta now.

QuoteI noticed you changed the maximum simultaneous capacity at construction number. I had figured such a number existed, as even after I changed the High Tech demand range the super huge Somy's still had some issue growing (Along with several other 20k+ capacity buildings). This leads me to another question...are capacities already used included in the math to figure needs for the next stage's capacity? For example, the Sears Tower and the Pan Pacific Building. The Sears Tower has 16k(ish) capacity, the Pan Pacific 21k(ish).  When the simulator decides to bump a Sears Tower up to a Pan Pacific, does the game look for a spare 6k capacity to build the Pan Pacific, or does the game require the full 21k(ish) capacity (As if the Sears Tower never existed)? In fact, how does demand work in that regard? Does it just look for the demand required to go from 16k(ish) to 21k(ish), or does it require the full amount of demand for a Sears Tower to grow into a Pan Pacific?

As far as I can tell, and RippleJet may know otherwise, the game only allows for building if the new building is within the total growth capacity limits, without taking any upgrade into the calculation.

QuoteIf the latter, this leads to some...issues, with very large cities. As the number of a given type increases (CO$$, I-HT, etc), demand caps increase and thus demand drops due to the cap. For the very large buildings, it doesn't take long before the drop in demand via cap makes it nigh impossible to get them to grow outright (Which is the case with any of the Stage 10 20k+ Somy's). The issue with I-HT is especially noticeable, given the ludicrous demand one has for I-HT after getting a large region and the fact, most of the time, Somy's High Rise Farms grow instead of the 20k+ ones. If I may suggest, would it be possible to add another stage or two, or re-balance the stages you already have, to allow the super huge Somy buildings the highest stages and the High Rise Farms (And their ilks) a stage lower? This would allow the High Rise Farms to grow into the 20k+ buildings, because as now, once it hits a High Rise Farm, that's it.

A Stage 10 can't upgrade to another Stage 10. The only way to get the Somys to grow was to demolish the Integriculture buildings. While I believe it is possible for more stages in the industrial area, we're not quite ready for that just yet. And t's almost guaranteed that as soon as all of the stages possible are maxed out, someone will still create even larger buildings. (Two words - Coruscant Mod)

Quote
While we're on the subject, I have yet another question about stages. I have a region, as before, with 10 million sims. I can get the final stages of anything, but I do have this small city tile composed entirely of the rich. Desirability and demand are maxed, yet the building stages won't grow past stage 12 (Yes, everything required to break stage 12 has been added). Does this mean only a certain percentage of allowed stages leech off from neighbor cities (Which can obtain stage 15 buildings), or is there a hard cap that always requires a certain number of sims >in< the city to get higher stages regardless of what the region is capable of? Or a combination thereof?

My best guess would be that there's some kind of a desirability issue, even if the map is showing green. I have had plenty of small cities, mostly residential, with maybe 10% Commercial mixed in, so that at least some jobs were provided in town. And I've never had an issue getting to Stage 15, and a lot of them. Check your commute times, you may need to switch to a traffic sim with higher capacities, or merely upgrade a few roads.

QuoteFinally, might I make another suggestion? Increase the maximum demands for Dirty Industry and Manufacturing to 24k, as well. The reason I suggest this is because the Jamison Steel Mill has 21k jobs...meaning it will never normally grow in a city. Super huge lots like these don't show up often, in any form, but you'd certainly take care of all possible future scenarios with this.

I originally made the growable lot at the request of Andreas. Not sure if he's ever been able to get it to actually grow or not.  $%Grinno$%  But I have.

So far for the Rural CAM, the max growth for IR, ID, and IM are all set for 12,000. I would agree that more should be included, so that people can actually grow the Jamison Steel Mill, if for no other reason.  :D

But when adjusting the maximum simultaneous growth rate, you also adjust the speed at which the game progresses. I would have to advise against this change for Rural CAM, at least in the early stages of a region. Really, I'd advise against the change to IHT as well, considering that the people who would be more geared to use the rural version are unlikely to need IHT with capacities so large. But for the Normal and Skyscraper CAMs, I would definately recommend the changes.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 27, 2009, 12:16:09 AM
Quote from: HappyDays on November 26, 2009, 02:04:12 PM
If it's the latter, I'd gladly offer up my region of 10 million (6 in one city, at that!) for the testing. I do recall you weren't entirely sure CAM 2.0 would be compatible with CAM 1.0 regions, so such a massive city would be a perfect test bed for that particular aspect. If, of course, you don't already have a couple of those floating around.

You should be able to see another subboard in the CAM board now... ::)


Quote from: HappyDays on November 26, 2009, 02:04:12 PM
This leads me to another question...are capacities already used included in the math to figure needs for the next stage's capacity? For example, the Sears Tower and the Pan Pacific Building. The Sears Tower has 16k(ish) capacity, the Pan Pacific 21k(ish).  When the simulator decides to bump a Sears Tower up to a Pan Pacific, does the game look for a spare 6k capacity to build the Pan Pacific, or does the game require the full 21k(ish) capacity (As if the Sears Tower never existed)? In fact, how does demand work in that regard? Does it just look for the demand required to go from 16k(ish) to 21k(ish), or does it require the full amount of demand for a Sears Tower to grow into a Pan Pacific?

That's a question I would love someone from Maxis to tell me the answer to as well...
So far I have also, like Nate, always thought that the game needs the full demand for the bigger building to grow from scratch before it would grow...

However, maybe, just maybe, the reason people were sometimes able to grow NDEX towers with up to 9,000 jobs in Rush Hour,
was indeed due to the reason that only the difference in capacity was required in the demand...
We may never get a complete answer to that, but it's good to consider that might be the case.

In any case, as soon as the old building (which is being upgraded) disappeared, the demand would once again increase by that amount.
Say the demand was +24, then dropped to +3 when the Pan Pacific was set to grow, but rose back to +19 when the Sears Tower disappeared.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: HappyDays on November 27, 2009, 11:40:19 AM
"You should be able to see another subboard in the CAM board now..."

Oh snap!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on November 27, 2009, 01:04:55 PM
"You should be able to see another subboard in the CAM board now..."

Ah, that's why the CAM-sub-forum shows up in big lettering once in a while, without there being a topic with a recent post, there was a sub-forum that I couldn't see. Though I think that in that case, it shouldn't show up in bold anyway, ergo there is a forum bug. Anyway, I'd also love to participate in the CAM 2.0 beta testing. I don't have any really big cities/regions, though I am working on a new region, one that could be used to test the rural version, as it won't become very big for a while.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on November 27, 2009, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: Korot on November 27, 2009, 01:04:55 PM
there was a sub-forum that I couldn't see.

At least now you can... ::) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on December 02, 2009, 07:26:31 AM
Hello, is there any way of getting the latest 1.1.3 CAM addon??


And another thing, if i were to install SC4 under linux, would CAM work in it ?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 02, 2009, 07:56:29 AM
If you're prepared to beta test the latest CAM, including writing reports, then just ask! ;)

Btw, 1.1.3 isn't the latest beta version anymore... ::)





Version
Date
Change Log
1.0.1
2007/11/08   I-HT Demand Range raised from 12,000 to 24,000
Max simultaneous capacity at contrusction raised from 20,480 to 24,576
Neutral tax vs. Population reduced in order to make the game more difficult
Maximum slope per tile in zoning increased from 16 to 20 for medium and 24 for high density
1.0.2
2007/12/27Private version for verifying that the tax parameters can be changed
1.0.3
2007/12/28Tax modifier vs. Rate Variance changed
Difficulty vs. Tax Multiplier changed to make the hard difficulty even harder
1.0.4
2008/01/12Workforce drives removed in order to get rid of the doubled regional workforce
The tax reduction reduced... (more income compared to the previous version)
1.0.5
2008/03/08CAM split up into two parts...
- 1. All RCI exemplars, which have to be patched with SimCity_1.dat
- 2. All other exemplars, which in the future will be split up into three main versions
 Workforce drives added back into the file to be patched with SimCity_1.dat
 AFTER THIS FOLLOWED A LONG TESTING PERIOD WITHIN BSC
1.0.6
2009/03/08Corrected the building developer exemplar, which was buggy since version 1.0.3
1.1.1
2009/11/07Rural CAM Stage # vs. Size properties finished
The slope effect on desirability taken into use for almost all RCI types
 The IHT demand bug fix included in the patched files
 TESTING OF RURAL CAM STARTED ON SC4D
1.1.2
2009/11/21Maximum I-R demand increased from 6,000 to 12,000
1.1.3
2009/11/23All workforce drives have been revised and changed
Negative traffic effect on I-R desirability reduced
1.1.4
2009/12/01Growth thresholds changed in order to speed up the stages a bit
Max IR threshold extended from 250,000 to 2,395,427
The chance of growing stage 6 and 7 farms increased with the higher thresholds
1.2.0
2009/11/30Standard CAM Stage # vs. Size properties finished
 The slope effects copied over from Rural CAM
 TESTING OF STANDARD CAM STARTED ON SC4D
Skyscraper CAM Stage # vs. Size properties are being developed...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SC4BOY on December 02, 2009, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: cogeo on November 03, 2009, 10:37:35 AM
And something that might cause you some concern, cities don't grow that fast with CAM installed, it actually makes the game a little (quite) harder to play. Growth has to go through more stages, population won't grow as fast (at least initially), and you will need more zones to get the same population and jobs. But I think it's worth the fuss.

Am I the only person who dissagrees with this? I've used both SC4 (generally unmod'ed other than the NAM and a few custom lots) and CAM. I don't find CAM to be any harder at all.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on December 02, 2009, 08:32:23 AM
Well, that indeed would be great, also, ill be testing through Linux, so that might be of more help to the project :)


Thanks
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 02, 2009, 08:37:19 AM
Gabriel, you're hired! ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pharaon-Kheops on December 05, 2009, 06:27:01 AM
CAM works great on linux (with WINE), as well as NAM and any other mods I habitualy use (essentialy work from BSC, NDEX and Peg).
Concerning CAM bêta-testing, I would be glad to contribute (unless it needs 18 to 20 hours a day of gaming ^^)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 05, 2009, 08:09:19 AM
Quote from: Pharaon-Kheops on December 05, 2009, 06:27:01 AM
Concerning CAM bêta-testing, I would be glad to contribute (unless it needs 18 to 20 hours a day of gaming ^^)

Naw, 16 is enough... ::) :D
Welcome to another board nearby... :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on December 07, 2009, 05:22:02 PM
do you guys feels there is any scop for an ultra CAM that plays with even shallower curves than the current, so developement will not become high rise till very very large populations are reached... beyond realism here, merely an excercise in megacity planning.?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 07, 2009, 05:34:09 PM
Already in the works MG. At least 2 versions of CAM 2.0 will require higher regional capacities before higher stages are reached.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 07, 2009, 11:12:17 PM
John, would you want to beta test Rural CAM 2.0 or European CAM 2.0 ?  :)

It only takes some 16 hours of testing and reporting per day...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tooheys on December 07, 2009, 11:58:53 PM
It only takes some 16 hours of testing and reporting per day...  $%Grinno$%

Throw MG in the deep end, Rural Cam. It's a laugh a minute  :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on December 08, 2009, 12:29:32 AM
Quote from: RippleJet on December 07, 2009, 11:12:17 PM
John, would you want to beta test Rural CAM 2.0 or European CAM 2.0 ?  :)

OK, I give up.  What's European CAM 2.0?  ()what()
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 08, 2009, 12:34:39 AM
Quote from: z on December 08, 2009, 12:29:32 AM
OK, I give up.  What's European CAM 2.0?  ()what()

Will be ready for beta testing... tomorrow... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on December 08, 2009, 04:06:33 PM
i assume by allowing more developement in the midrise and restrcting the highrise you get a european style city... as apposed to an american style one with a very steep urban gradient... to be honest i am up to my neck in terraforming right now... but this region should be ready for its release....

my vision is almost like CAM nationstate edition... for your 60-100+ large tile monster regions...

those statements may in fact not be unrelated XD
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 08, 2009, 04:14:44 PM
Quote from: mightygoose on December 08, 2009, 04:06:33 PM
i assume by allowing more developement in the midrise and restrcting the highrise you get a european style city... as apposed to an american style one with a very steep urban gradient...

You hit the nail on its head, John! :)

This is R§ in CAM 2.0 Standard:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi232.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee198%2FRippleJet%2FCAM20StandardR2.jpg&hash=0246a8cf78dc9aef649c39784e780f19e45ec5ec)

This is R§ in CAM 2.0 Midrise (or European):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi232.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee198%2FRippleJet%2FCAM20EuropeanR.jpg&hash=563a9f015d20824d022379caee3aef08594dce52)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 08, 2009, 04:35:09 PM
Quote from: mightygoose on December 08, 2009, 04:06:33 PM
my vision is almost like CAM nationstate edition... for your 60-100+ large tile monster regions...

Then Rural CAM may be perfect for you.  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on December 09, 2009, 08:36:37 AM
exactly what is the population boundary condition for stage 15's in the rural cam?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 09, 2009, 11:29:53 AM
Quote from: mightygoose on December 09, 2009, 08:36:37 AM
exactly what is the population boundary condition for stage 15's in the rural cam?

I'm still tweaking them, based on what the beta testers are saying...
(those in the two images above have also been changed since).

In the Rural version on my HD, which still hasn't been released for beta testing,
the smallest thresholds (regional residential capacity) for stage 15 are:


5,101,151
R§§
7,653,665
R§§§   
10,203,732
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ldog on December 09, 2009, 12:50:50 PM
Would it cause too much of a scandal if I offered to betatest as well?  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 09, 2009, 12:58:00 PM
The scandal is now known to the public... $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: deecee on December 09, 2009, 08:20:51 PM
hello again - here's my question of the day  ;D

can i be in more than one stage at once?  for example - growing stage 7 industrial buildings but stage 5 residential? 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 09, 2009, 08:47:47 PM
Sure, and you probably will be. Each RCI type's stages is dependant only on it's own Regional Capacity, so they all grow at their own speed.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on December 10, 2009, 03:24:11 AM
aah ok that sounds more like my cup of tea...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 10, 2009, 03:36:39 AM
Wanna beta test it? ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: ramseyazad on December 10, 2009, 06:52:36 AM
I wanna beta test!  Just got laid off of work and have been looking forward to the day the cam 2 came forever now!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: mightygoose on December 10, 2009, 07:10:32 AM
maybe ill see how quickly i can finish up the terraforming
in other news would all CAM1.0 compatible lots be CAM2.0 compatible by default ?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 10, 2009, 07:45:39 AM
You're both invited! :)


Quote from: mightygoose on December 10, 2009, 07:10:32 AM
in other news would all CAM1.0 compatible lots be CAM2.0 compatible by default ?

Most certainly! ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SeanSC4 on December 10, 2009, 08:22:35 AM
I'm very interested in seeing how the Rural version of the upcoming CAM 2.0 works.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 10, 2009, 08:34:43 AM
Go on and take a look! ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: End_of_Eternity on December 12, 2009, 07:26:54 PM
Hi RippleJet,

I was just wondering about the CAM 2.0 development cycle. Is CAM 2.0 just going to be final/stable version of the 1.x series? Or is there going to be a lot of new stuff for 2.0. Other than have Euro/Rural profile with lower stage limits CAM 1.x is mostly bugfixes and tweaks, is that correct?

Thanks!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 12, 2009, 07:50:30 PM
Basically anything after CAM 1.0 has been created as testing for the final 2.0 release(s). And the testing is going quite well so far, for the Rural and Standard versions. The biggest bigfix so far is to the doubled Regional Capacities, which was the only major "bug" with 1.0.
But I think you can look for at least a few surprises with 2.0. Can't give specifics on that just yet though... we're still working on them.  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: End_of_Eternity on December 12, 2009, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: xxdita on December 12, 2009, 07:50:30 PM
Basically anything after CAM 1.0 has been created as testing for the final 2.0 release(s). And the testing is going quite well so far, for the Rural and Standard versions. The biggest bigfix so far is to the doubled Regional Capacities, which was the only major "bug" with 1.0.
But I think you can look for at least a few surprises with 2.0. Can't give specifics on that just yet though... we're still working on them.  ;D

Thank you for your reply. I was wondering if the 1.2 beta version is available anywhere? I would like to give it go? Would this be safe to use with latest NAM and the original version of CAM. I have a pretty developer region with around 3 million people with a wide variety of different cities/towns. I guess I can report any problems that I have. Are the 1.x version buggy? Would be safe to use in an existing city with CAM 1.0?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on December 12, 2009, 08:14:21 PM
With the Regional Capacities doubled in CAM 1.0, it's not recommended that you use an existing CAM 1.0 region, although the upgrade from Rush Hour/Deluxe will be a smooth transition.

Quote from: End_of_Eternity on December 12, 2009, 08:02:04 PM
Are the 1.x version buggy?

Not at all yet. The fixes since 1.0 are really noticeable.  :thumbsup:

NAM is perfectly fine for use with all versions of CAM though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gabrielbyrnei on December 13, 2009, 06:02:56 AM
Will there be some kinda of fix for eternal commuters anytime soon ?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 13, 2009, 06:15:18 AM
That's something that cannot be fixed, other than laying out your region so that those loops won't appear.
It's a problem that appears also in RH, not just in CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: earwax_man on December 13, 2009, 09:11:04 AM
Could I beta test? I love CAM, and I'm quite good at spotting bugs  ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 13, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
CAM 2.0 Midrise (or European as some call it) is to be released for beta testing tonight, so you're welcome, earwax!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gottago on December 13, 2009, 09:36:57 AM
That's great news--something we've all been patiently waiting for--congratulations &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 13, 2009, 09:57:28 AM
It's still for beta testing (and it was released 5 minutes ago), but good news nonetheless, gottago. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: woodb3kmaster on December 18, 2009, 07:37:11 PM
As I have just uninstalled a couple of very old stage cap-related mods in an attempt to get rid of my no-job zot plagues (the story on all that is in the Simulator Z Development and Theory (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5382.420) thread), I would be very interested in beta-testing CAM 2.0. Are you still looking for testers?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 19, 2009, 12:37:22 AM
Welcome aboard, Zack! :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: delta9 on December 20, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
I would be very interested in testing the newest version of CAM as well.  I've used CAM ever since its release and couldn't (wouldn't!) play without it now.  I'm also in the process of prepping a region for an MD (my first) and have only done very basic development so far so switching over shouldn't cause any problems, and since I plan on growing this region quite literally from the ground up (rural towns to metro areas) it should provide a good showcase of the new version's capabilities.

tl;dr: &hlp GIMME GIMME GIMME  :P

Thanks,

Wayne
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 20, 2009, 12:59:16 PM
Present yourself in a thread you haven't seen before, Wayne! ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: deecee on December 21, 2009, 03:36:27 PM
hello?!  i've been gone from lurking on the boards (and sometimes posting too - so am i still considered a lurker?  how many posts do you have to do before you're no longer a lurker?) anyway - sorry for the mental tangent of mine i just took you on :)

there's a cam 2.0?  how'd i miss that? i will of course read backwards from where i first saw it but i'm feeling particularly antsy to get this information so maybe someone will put me out of my misery and respond while i do what i came here for (find out if there's new stuff and get a question or two answered in case you're wondering).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on December 21, 2009, 03:44:37 PM
There isn't a public CAM 2.0 yet... it's undergoing pretty extensive beta testing.
The develop exemplars and simulators are getting close to being final though...
After that there's still quite some auxiliary modding to go through...

Date for a public release?  ::) ... hmmm ....

&drumm1

...when it's ready :P
First half of 2010 I'd say... ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bob56 on January 05, 2010, 03:07:49 PM
Hi, I was just wondering what the transition issues would be from transferring a CAM 1.0 region to CAM 2.0. I was planning on starting a region when my computer change is finished, and I was wondering if I would be better off in waiting until CAM 2.0 to start the new region.

Thanks!

--Grif
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 05, 2010, 03:16:31 PM
The biggest issue in switching over is the Doubled Regional Capacity issues presented with CAM 1.0, which have been resolved in 2.0. Of course, I think there's room for another tester, eh RippleJet?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 05, 2010, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: bob56 on January 05, 2010, 03:07:49 PM
Hi, I was just wondering what the transition issues would be from transferring a CAM 1.0 region to CAM 2.0. I was planning on starting a region when my computer change is finished, and I was wondering if I would be better off in waiting until CAM 2.0 to start the new region.

Based on my own experience with that situation, I would definitely recommend waiting for CAM 2.0.  Of course, as xxdita points out, being willing to test it is one way to get it faster...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: bob56 on January 06, 2010, 05:20:29 AM
ok, and also I can test ( I hope to have everything ready this weekend, although perhaps sooner if the coming storm closes school tomorrow ::)) Just let me know how to get involved in testing and I'll do what I can.

Thanks,
--grif
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 06, 2010, 10:24:51 AM
Quote from: bob56 on January 06, 2010, 05:20:29 AM
ok, and also I can test

Welcome to the testing group, Grif! :thumbsup:
You should be able to see a private board somewhere now... ::)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 01:04:01 AM
Hi all

I recently found out about CAM so its new to me..

I installed CAM and afterwards I used 'Block all Maxis' by Dusktrooper... Last night i read about the imcambatibility and used the BSC version instead.
My question is; are my cities screwed now (because I used the wrong mod) or will everything work again now that I use BSC's version?

Also, I found a sticky here with the list of lots that are available for CAM but it dates back from 2007. Is there an updated list? Are that all the lots I'm allowed to use with CAM? Or can I also use BATs / Lots from simtropolis.com that aren't on, the 2007 list?

tnx
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 03:49:20 AM
The Linking All Available CAMelots list has been continuously updated since 2007, and is a comprehensive list of CAMelots from the LEX.

The BSC No Maxis mod shouldn't give you any problems, as long as you have it installed into a zz_ folder in your plugins, so that it loads last.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 07:17:04 AM
Quote from: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 03:49:20 AM
The Linking All Available CAMelots list has been continuously updated since 2007, and is a comprehensive list of CAMelots from the LEX.

The BSC No Maxis mod shouldn't give you any problems, as long as you have it installed into a zz_ folder in your plugins, so that it loads last.

Can you give me a link to the 'comprehensive list of CAMelots from the LEX' ?

So I have to create a folder in my plugins, name it 'zz_' and then drag the 'BSC no maxis' folder in it?

tnx for your reply
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Diggis on January 11, 2010, 07:18:56 AM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 07:17:04 AM
Can you give me a link to the 'comprehensive list of CAMelots from the LEX' ?


It's the same list you found, it gets updated constantly.

Quote from: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 07:17:04 AM

So I have to create a folder in my plugins, name it 'zz_' and then drag the 'BSC no maxis' folder in it?



That should do it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 07:41:20 AM
The list is in the first few posts of this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0). New CAMelots are announced in the thread as well, so that it appears on your Unread Posts Since Last Visit when it's updated. But instead of making you go through 18 pages of posts, the lists are on the first page of the thread.

And you should probably name the folder zz_BSC No Maxis, so that you remember what's in it later.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 07:41:38 AM

QUOTE : It's the same list you found, it gets updated constantly.


Ok so how will I know about new Lots, cus ist a long list and their aren't any dates. Is there an announcement when new Lots are about to get released?

What happens if I use RCI bats that aren't on the CAM list?

thanks again for the info!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 07:43:41 AM
Quote from: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 07:41:20 AM
The list is in the first few posts of this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0). New CAMelots are announced in the thread as well, so that it appears on your Unread Posts Since Last Visit when it's updated. But instead of making you go through 18 pages of posts, the lists are on the first page of the thread.

And you should probably name the folder zz_BSC No Maxis, so that you remember what's in it later.

Sorry, was editing my post as you were replying.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 07:46:25 AM
If you use RCI lots that aren't on the list, then they were modded for Rush Hour/Deluxe, and could potentially throw off the balance of the game, especially Stage 6 to 8 Res & Com lots, and pretty much all Industrials.

But keep checking back on the forums... we do have surprises in store soon.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 07:48:33 AM
alright tnx a lot for the info guys  &apls
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 11, 2010, 08:23:21 AM
I deleted all the non-campatible RCIs, saved and quit.

Right now, i'm already getting 2 stage 10 CO$$$ skycrapers in my 72k population city, my region population only 145k
(there are also a few stage 8 and 9 CO$$$ in my rather small town)

In my days before I started using CAM this was never the case, is this normal???
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 08:55:30 AM
Use the CAMelot Counter from the LEX (Power Search for RippleJet) as your guide to what's "normal". But Population has little to nothing to do with your commercial capacities, which is what determines what stage Commercials build.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: deecee on January 11, 2010, 02:30:06 PM
hello - so the residential areas of my cities all have high traffic and some (not all but more than half) of my commercial areas have medium or low traffic.  my question - should i rezone, reversing res & comm?  or is it better to delete the residential and zone commercial over it?  i always hesitate to delete commercial - thinking a loss of jobs will make sims move out of the city.  there's typically more housing than jobs so i thought it'd be easier for them to find a new house versus job.  would someone pretty please straighten me out?!

also, i read that to get around the double capacity situation, some folks build industrial cities with no sims and that sims won't actually be working there but it will satisfy the demand.  my question - does this work for cs$ too?  i can never never never never zone enough to satisfy this demand - i wondered if you have to have people in a city for cs$ to grow or if i can have a ghost industrial & cs$ city?

all responses appreciated!  DeeCee ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 11, 2010, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: deecee on January 11, 2010, 02:30:06 PM
hello - so the residential areas of my cities all have high traffic and some (not all but more than half) of my commercial areas have medium or low traffic.

The traffic simulator has a huge effect on how much traffic you get in different areas of your city.  Which one are you using?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: deecee on January 11, 2010, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: z on January 11, 2010, 02:51:06 PM
The traffic simulator has a huge effect on how much traffic you get in different areas of your city.  Which one are you using?

the new NAM Z High

and sorry if i put this in the wrong place - i thought the increased traffic was because of the higher stage buildings (more sims) in that area and i thought that would be cam.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 11, 2010, 04:52:58 PM
Quote from: deecee on January 11, 2010, 03:23:20 PM
the new NAM Z High

That shouldn't be causing your problems, then - I just thought it would be good to check.

Quotei thought the increased traffic was because of the higher stage buildings (more sims) in that area and i thought that would be cam.

You're probably right here.  One thing that often helps is having high speed transit connections (highways or subways, etc.) between your residentials and your jobs.  Subways seem to be the most effective here, and they have the advantage that you don't have to change the layout of your city.  It wmay take a fair number of them to have an effect, though.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 11, 2010, 07:10:57 PM
No matter what traffic simulator you're using, Commericial is best zoned in between Residential and Industrial, in order to get the most traffic past it, and thus the most business to it. Your Sims will choose their preferred job type by the Workforce Drives, which is based largely on the Education in your city, and then base the route to their job of choice on that decision. The actual number of your workforce will vary dependning on your Health Quotient. Commercial buildings will be drawn to areas of high traffic, in order to have a good customer base from day one. Industrials just want to be close to the nearest neighbor connection, freight station, or Seaport. Everything is intricately balanced, and dependant on something else, so with high populations, it can be like walking on a tightrope.

Even the highest capacity versions of modern Traffic Simulators will be hard-pressed to keep up with the traffic of a grid-based Metropolis with Stage 15 Residential and CS/CO skyscrapers dominating the land. And too much traffic congestion can prevent further Residential growth, as well as cause some buildings to delapidate or abandon entirely. So you need to make sure your street & road network can not only sustain current traffic, but provide for the growth of new/upgraded buildings as well.

A solid mass transit system can certainly help, although it should be laid out very carefully. Remember that each Sim taking the subway or HSRP straight to work in an industrial zone will not contribute business to any commercial buildings along the way, which may decrease the desirability of the commercial district, especially if the mass transit preference in the Traffic Sim is set too high.

Without seeing a photo or two of your city's layout, I can't say for sure what we're dealing with. But consider how real world downtowns are laid out, with Condos and apartments in the same buildings as offices and shops; or at the very least, some commercial buildings mixed into the residential zones. Even the suburbs are designed so that shopping is convenient, placing stores along the main routes, while residential neighborhoods are usually built on the block behind the businesses (or maybe a little further back). This style of play in SC4 allows for shorter commute times (on average), less traffic congestion citywide (though it may still be high in localized areas), and more potential for growth, especially when using CAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: deecee on January 11, 2010, 09:03:32 PM
the city i'm having trouble with that caused me to write has very little industrial - i started with some but i gradually moved it to the city next door that only has industrial.  this city is mainly medium density residential and commercial with a couple areas of high density res and comm mixed in.  i have little city-like areas outside of my rhw exits - the highway itself is sort of a ring around the city and when i make an exit i build res and comm outside those.  my goal is to have all the little cities meet up and form one big mainly medium density city.

surprisingly, the high density res is NOT the area that's highly congested - although there is quite a bit of vehicle traffic through that area - it's the med density res that's all backed up.  i'd like to take some pictures to show you - some traffic screens and zones - but i don't know how to make the camera open on those type of screens.  i'll take some regular ones until i figure the other way out - which would be really nice then you could see what i'm talking about.

but what about demolishing?  should i demolish or rezone the high traffic res areas for comm?  screenshots to come - thanks for the replies.  DeeCee

and oh yeah - my problem city isn't strictly laid out in a grid - although there are many straight avenues i have a lot of curving-type streets as well.  that's all.


one more thing - what about the all cs$ city to meet the sky-high demand?  do i have to have res in that city?  i already have an industrial only city with no sims and it's doing great and meets all the industrial demand for one of my cities (it could maybe support another small or med city too i'm thinking) but i didn't know if i could do the same with cs$.  that's really it this time.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 04:49:09 AM
Hi all,

Below are 2 pics of my 73k population city. My region pop. is only 145k. I use CAM and only CAMelots.
Now I've been building cities in SC4 since 2003 but I have never had such a sprawling CBD in such a (relatively) small city.
Also, I only have a handful of tall/ big residential buildings compared with those many CO$$ /CO$$$

Is this caused by CAM, cus I thought that development should be slower when using CAM???

Now don't get me wrong, I love well developed CBDs in my cities, i'm just surprised by this  :)




(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fg.imagehost.org%2F0856%2FNuovo_Can-2_Dec_2751263299895.jpg&hash=39aa3f0059aa6e450e85e7ddd7b79119f837f538) (http://g.imagehost.org/view/0856/Nuovo_Can-2_Dec_2751263299895)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fg.imagehost.org%2F0814%2FNuovo_Can-17_Dec_2751263299941.jpg&hash=e8f4c097d06921c5b4f869fe47db6a53c11624f4) (http://g.imagehost.org/view/0814/Nuovo_Can-17_Dec_2751263299941)

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 05:09:50 AM
Download the CAMeLot Counter by Ripplejet (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1073) and the Census Repository Facility, Ver. 3.1 by Ripplejet (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1831) click on them and post the information here from both and Ripplejet will come around when he has a chance and analyze your info.

Robin  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 06:03:12 AM
Quote from: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 05:09:50 AM
Download the CAMeLot Counter by Ripplejet (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1073) and the Census Repository Facility, Ver. 3.1 by Ripplejet (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1831) click on them and post the information here from both and Ripplejet will come around when he has a chance and analyze your info.

Robin  :thumbsup:


Please tell me, how do I take pictures when one of these overviews are opened?? I can only take a picture when the window is closed so how do I post the info from either one of these??
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 06:22:52 AM
Print screen and paste into Photo shop or I use IrfanView, crop if you need to so the picture stays as large as possible, resize to 800, save as JPG and than host it and post here. ;)

Robin  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 06:45:31 AM
Quote from: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 06:22:52 AM
Print screen and paste into Photo shop or I use IrfanView, crop if you need to so the picture stays as large as possible, resize to 800, save as JPG and than host it and post here. ;)

Robin  :thumbsup:

Call me a noob but i have no idea how to 'print screen' I tried the printscreen key on my keyboard but I guess that's not it.

If doing this requires going back to desktop while keeping SC4 running, then that could be a problem. My game tends to crash if I minimize to desktop..

I have never used IrfanView nor Photoshop. I do have (Windows 7) Paint. LOL

Sorry for your trouble, appreciate your help though  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 06:56:24 AM
Okay, run the Census Repository Facility, Ver. 3.1 by Ripplejet, push the "Print Screen " button, save game and exist.  Open your paint program and and push Ctrl and V at the same time, this should paste a picture of your game.  Now follow the rest of my instructions above.

BTW, you can down load IrfanView for free, LOOK HERE. (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ei=ao1MS96tDo7WNYq-yfcM&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAgQBSgA&q=irfanview+free+download&spell=1)

Robin  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: sc-4 on January 12, 2010, 07:01:26 AM
You can use Clip2Pic too , it's aviable on the lex and you don't have to use paint just hit "print screen" I think it's after F12
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 07:17:03 AM
Yes! I did it  ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ff.imagehost.org%2F0014%2Fcensuspic.jpg&hash=3c794ffa7013cba7c97b1bf59773c5b3886a529d) (http://f.imagehost.org/view/0014/censuspic)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 07:20:17 AM
OKay, this on is the CAM Counter, can you get the other too, please.  It's the one with all the real info.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 07:23:13 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg704.imageshack.us%2Fimg704%2F3012%2Fcensuspic2.jpg&hash=643140795fa333a52f16836ea78f90f8c9c6d079) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/censuspic2.jpg/)

Even smaller size this time  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 07:34:48 AM
Perfect, I'm sure Ripplejet will be around soon. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 07:43:20 AM
 Just from what I can tell, I think your distribution of CAM res. and CAM comm. looks about right.  What CAM does is extends the range of developement to 15 stages and gives a better growing curve for all types, res. comm. and indust.  I can see that you only have two stage 9 res. and 3 stage 9 comm. and 3 stage 10 comm.  This looks about right for the CAM as it will grow higher stage commercial before residential....it's to hopefully make things look more real life like.
As for the CRV, I'm still not so good at reading and analyzing that, so we'll just have to wait for Ripplejet.

Robin  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on January 12, 2010, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 04:49:09 AM
Below are 2 pics of my 73k population city. My region pop. is only 145k. I use CAM and only CAMelots.
Now I've been building cities in SC4 since 2003 but I have never had such a sprawling CBD in such a (relatively) small city.
Also, I only have a handful of tall/ big residential buildings compared with those many CO$$ /CO$$$

Is this caused by CAM, cus I thought that development should be slower when using CAM???

Due to the doubled regional residential capacity and workforce that the game erroneously reports with CAM 1.0.

As you can see both from the CAMeLot Counter's query and from the Census Repository's query,
you've got a regional residential capacity of 315,384 and a workforce of 180,776.

These numbers should be half of that, 157,692 and 90,388 (which also corresponds to your actual population).
However, since that error is in there, you will have a lot more jobs (C and I) growing in CAM than in RH.

Now, let's compare what you get in CAM (with a regional commercial capacity of 128,067)
to what you would have gotten in Rush Hour (with a regional commercial capacity of 64,034).

This is the distribution of CO$$$ that you would have had in RH and get with CAM 1.0:


Stage      Rush Hour   CAM 1.0
1
2 %
32 %
2
4 %
13 %
3
6 %
10 %
4
19 %
9 %
5
22 %
8 %
6
25 %
7 %
7
16 %
6 %
8
6 %
5 %
9
-
4 %
10
-
3 %
11
-
2 %
12
-
0 %
13
-
0 %
14
-
0 %
15
-
0 %

CAM still develops a lot more low stage buildings, than you would have seen in Rush Hour.
However, CAMeLot stages 9 through 11 already have a small chance of appearing. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:23:00 PM
Tnx a lot Ripple Jet and everybody else for your replies! You guys are great!  ;D

I can conclude that my city has normal stats under CAM right?

Now I assume that most of you use CAM 1.0 yourselves right, and that you're happy about it? Because I thought that CAM was the SC4 'holy grail' but this error is kind of 'game breaking', or not?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on January 12, 2010, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:23:00 PM
Tnx a lot Ripple Jet and everybody else for your replies! You guys are great!  ;D

I can conclude that my city has normal stats under CAM right?

Yes, you can.

Quote
Now I assume that most of you use CAM 1.0 yourselves right, and that you're happy about it?

No, we don't use CAM 1.0, as CAM 2.0 is currently being beta-tested, and most of us here, talking to you, are beta-testing it. However, double capacity bug aside, I was happy with the old version.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:28:44 PM
Quote from: Korot on January 12, 2010, 12:26:11 PM
Yes, you can.

No, we don't use CAM 1.0, as CAM 2.0 is currently being beta-tested, and most of us here, talking to you, are beta-testing it. However, double capacity bug aside, I was happy with the old version.

Regards,
Korot


Hmm so when do you expect a 2.0 release? And will I be able to change from CAM 1.0 to 2.0 without difficulty or will I have to start a new region?

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on January 12, 2010, 12:31:23 PM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:28:44 PM
Hmm so when do you expect a 2.0 release? And will I be able to change from CAM 1.0 to 2.0 without difficulty or will I have to start a new region?


IWBRWIIR
And: You need to carefully watch the demand graphs, and probably alter some COM and IND to RES, but it is doable. Well, that is, according to those who tested the transition. I haven't, don't have the time, to busy testing CAM 2.0 on a new map.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 12:34:03 PM
Boerentoren, you could always ask to be a tester.  Not really sure if Ripplejet needs more, but it never hurts to ask.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 12:34:03 PM
Boerentoren, you could always ask to be a tester.  Not really sure if Ripplejet needs more, but it never hurts to ask.

Well I can't play/test on a daily basis so I wouldn't be very useful. I appreciate the offer though   :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on January 12, 2010, 12:40:52 PM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:39:25 PM
Well I can't play/test on a daily basis so I wouldn't be very useful. I appreciate the offer though   :)

Neither can I, I only have weekends. Rest of the time is consumed by homework, and checking all the SC4 sites.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:50:53 PM
Quote from: Korot on January 12, 2010, 12:40:52 PM
Neither can I, I only have weekends. Rest of the time is consumed by homework, and checking all the SC4 sites.

Regards,
Korot

You mean homework for school? God I'm starting to feel old... (I'm 27 so not that old either ) cus I'm the one that gives homework being a teacher that is.  ()stsfd()
Not that I do it a lot, cus the more homework I give, the more I need to correct...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on January 12, 2010, 12:52:49 PM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:50:53 PM
You mean homework for school? God I'm starting to feel old... (I'm 27 so not that old either ) cus I'm the one that gives homework being a teacher that is.  ()stsfd()
Not that I do it a lot, cus the more homework I give, the more I need to correct...


Well, they say practice makes perfect, and homework is practice, in a way.
What do you teach?

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:56:57 PM
I teach English and Geography to 12 till 16 year olds. It's only my second year as a teacher, I was in Sales before but my last employer got bankrupt. I wasn't very happy as salesman and decided to change my profession when the unfortunate opportunity presented itself.

HOW OLD ARE YOU GUYS????
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 12, 2010, 01:38:00 PM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:28:44 PM
And will I be able to change from CAM 1.0 to 2.0 without difficulty or will I have to start a new region?

It depends a lot on how big your region is, and various of its characteristics.  Basically, the bigger your region, the more difficult such a transition is.  I have a region of 7.5 million Sims spread out over six cities, and the doubled residential population (which doesn't go away) has made it impossible for me to switch to CAM 2.0.  Instead, I'm going to build Chicago 2.0...  ::)  YMMV.

Quote from: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 12:56:57 PM
HOW OLD ARE YOU GUYS????

I'm OLD.  Old enough to be your father, anyway.  :D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on January 12, 2010, 01:40:39 PM
Z: I won't call 57 old, that's my fathers age, and I don't think he's old. I myself am 16 BTW.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 12, 2010, 02:04:43 PM
Tnx for the replies

About the 2.0 release, I understand that you say: 'it will be ready when its done', but can you give me an estimate?


a) within a few weeks

b) within 1 - 2 months

c) within 3-6 months

d) possibly 6 months or longer?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 12, 2010, 04:03:36 PM
Sorry Boerentoren, but it'll be done when it's done, just like all other projects.
I'm not trying to be rude to you, but Ripplejet is the modder for this project and he has a real life as well and you must understand it gets busy sometimes.

Robin ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 12, 2010, 04:20:03 PM
There's still quite a bit of work to do on CAM 2.0, so this is going to take a while yet. Testing has shown that RippleJet is pretty close to a final version, but there are still a couple of issues to iron out. I'm not even going to attempt to estimate a release date. Because, actually, it won't be done when it's done... there will still be a lot to do once a final version is ready. And then more testing after that.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 01:32:56 AM
Ok, thank you both for the info!  ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 07:46:47 AM
I found out the the (latest) NAM + CAM give (almost) no traffic problems.

For the moment (city: pop 80k) I only use standard double roads to handle traffic in my crowded CBD. It looks like I won't be needing mass transit at all, for a long time..

Will this change, cus I like to add light rail / subway / (rural) highways in my cities but will they be used? IMO, the (latest) NAM works a bit too well, no?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: rooker1 on January 13, 2010, 07:49:33 AM
I'm just about ready to break half a million and I need mass transit. ;)

Robin
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 13, 2010, 08:23:06 AM
There are several different Traffic Simulators included with the NAM release, as well as the outdated ones included in the CAM 1.0 installer. Could you specify which one you're using?

Also, each of the modern Traffic Sims have multiple capacity levels, for cities of different sizes. If you're using Z Ultra or A Easy for a city with only 80k pop, then yeah, it's going to be way too easy.

A general rule of thumb is to match up the capacity settings of the Traffic Simulator with the Density of your zones. A city with mostly Low Density, play on hard/low. A CBD that's all (or at least mostly) High Density will require Easy/Ultra.

This is why I strongly recommend downloading the MAC Version of the latest NAM, so that you can switch out traffic sims based on the city you're playing. There is no one-size-fits-all. If you're not sure how you want the city to develop, then start with the hard/low capacity, and switch to medium, then easy/ultra as you need to. It's much better to add capacity as you go along than to try to take it away.

Also, if you're using Simulator Z, check Z's Discussions & Theory thread for the latest version.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 09:08:30 AM
I use the C_standard traffic plugin (I hope, because I had to find out to correctly use the latest census repository)

However, I'm not sure I understand all the other things you mentioned.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 13, 2010, 01:26:23 PM
That's the original Maxis simulator, and for a small, compact city of 80K it works OK, although as you've noticed, the road traffic in your CBD is already getting awfully high.  As your city grows, the poor pathfinding in the original Maxis simulator is also going to give you real problems; specifically, you may build mass transit, but the Sims won't use it intelligently.  Simulator Z was mentioned by xxdita; you can find a description of it in this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6812.msg215933#msg215933).  To use it with the proper data view, simply rerun the NAM installer with all the same options as before, but on the page after the license, scroll down to the bottom of the box, and where it says "Click + to select Traffic Controller Files," click the plus sign, and you'll see all the traffic simulators.  As xxdita mentioned, for a small city, to have any real challenge from the traffic simulator, you should pick a low capacity one, such as Simulator Z (Low) (don't pick the Park& Ride version, though).  If you decide to use Simulator Z, and want the latest version (which I would recommend), then after you have done the above, download this file (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=6663), and in your Network Addon Mod folder, replace the file NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_Z_Low.dat with the identically named file from the download.

If you do download the Mac version of the NAM, you'll also have to pick a Data View whose name corresponds to the name of the traffic simulator you select.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: z on January 13, 2010, 01:26:23 PM
That's the original Maxis simulator, and for a small, compact city of 80K it works OK, although as you've noticed, the road traffic in your CBD is already getting awfully high.  As your city grows, the poor pathfinding in the original Maxis simulator is also going to give you real problems; specifically, you may build mass transit, but the Sims won't use it intelligently.  Simulator Z was mentioned by xxdita; you can find a description of it in this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6812.msg215933#msg215933).  To use it with the proper data view, simply rerun the NAM installer with all the same options as before, but on the page after the license, scroll down to the bottom of the box, and where it says "Click + to select Traffic Controller Files," click the plus sign, and you'll see all the traffic simulators.  As xxdita mentioned, for a small city, to have any real challenge from the traffic simulator, you should pick a low capacity one, such as Simulator Z (Low) (don't pick the Park& Ride version, though).  If you decide to use Simulator Z, and want the latest version (which I would recommend), then after you have done the above, download this file (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=6663), and in your Network Addon Mod folder, replace the file NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_Z_Low.dat with the identically named file from the download.

If you do download the Mac version of the NAM, you'll also have to pick a Data View whose name corresponds to the name of the traffic simulator you select.

Tnx a lot for your detailed info. Will try to install this tomorrow.

You mentioned that for a small 80k city, I need to select Plugin Z_low but what about a larger city? Do I have to reinstall NAM and reselect the options when my city grows? I don't get it, I just want a decent version for smaller, larger and big cities if possible?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 13, 2010, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 01:42:24 PM
You mentioned that for a small 80k city, I need to select Plugin Z_low but what about a larger city? Do I have to reinstall NAM and reselect the options when my city grows? I don't get it, I just want a decent version for smaller, larger and big cities if possible?

Many people like to just use a "set it and forget it" approach with the traffic simulator.  If you want to do this, and you're planning to build a big city, then I would recommend Simulator Z High.  You'll have excess capacity to start, but as your city gets big, you'll find that that capacity will gradually get used.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 02:49:38 PM
Quote from: z on January 13, 2010, 02:38:55 PM
Many people like to just use a "set it and forget it" approach with the traffic simulator.  If you want to do this, and you're planning to build a big city, then I would recommend Simulator Z High.  You'll have excess capacity to start, but as your city gets big, you'll find that that capacity will gradually get used.

Well I do want some challenge (it doesn't have to be too easy) Will my mass transit still be used when I install Simulator Z high (in a +200k city)? If not, then I prefer Simulator Z Low because it sounds more realistic..

During my switch from standard C to Simulator Z Low I also found an option for functional canals by simgoober, are they any decent? How do they work?
I already use 'eyecandy'-canals so I'm interested about the NAM's...

tnx again  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: deecee on January 13, 2010, 04:25:26 PM
Quote from: z on January 13, 2010, 01:26:23 PM
If you decide to use Simulator Z, and want the latest version (which I would recommend), then after you have done the above, download this file (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5382.0;attach=6663), and in your Network Addon Mod folder, replace the file NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_Z_Low.dat with the identically named file from the download.

If you do download the Mac version of the NAM, you'll also have to pick a Data View whose name corresponds to the name of the traffic simulator you select.

hi there - i use simulator z high and installed on or around November 12-24 2009; do i need to download and install the file you have linked here?  also, does the nam mac version work on a pc?! 
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: tamorr on January 13, 2010, 05:59:53 PM
   All the NAM MAC version simply is the files in there respective directories in a zip. The windows one is an installer that would install as you know, those files into their respective directories. So basically it is a non-installer version of the MOD.

   This would mean of course that it should work with windows... :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on January 14, 2010, 01:40:23 AM
Quote from: Boerentoren on January 13, 2010, 02:49:38 PM
Well I do want some challenge (it doesn't have to be too easy) Will my mass transit still be used when I install Simulator Z high (in a +200k city)? If not, then I prefer Simulator Z Low because it sounds more realistic..

Mass transit usage will be either identical or almost so with the different capacity levels of Simulator Z, and with traffic simulators in general.  You might get some additional mass transit usage from the Low version if you have a lot of congested roads and some Sims decide to switch from cars to mass transit as a result, but as in the real world, that won't be a large number; as a percentage of total commuters, it's generally barely noticeable at best.

Quote from: deecee on January 13, 2010, 04:25:26 PM
hi there - i use simulator z high and installed on or around November 12-24 2009; do i need to download and install the file you have linked here?  also, does the nam mac version work on a pc?! 

I would recommend doing so (although it's not absolutely necessary) - there were two major releases of Simulator Z last month.  (No more are planned in the foreseeable future.)  This is especially true if you installed Simulator Z from the NAM, since the NAM was released in June, and several other important releases of Simulator Z were made in the interim.  To see what some of the more recent changes were, you can start reading the development thread here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5382.msg295953#msg295953).
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shlarin on January 24, 2010, 09:18:37 PM
Only my 3rd day using CAM so this may be a basic question but..

I've started a completely new region under CAM..  For some reason, I'm getting absolutely NO CO$$$ development..  I'm getting tons of CO$$ development, with skyscrapers up to stage 11 or 12 at this point (I have a region population of about 300,000 so far.)  But when I query the Census Repository, it says my CO$$$ population is 0..  and my CO$$$ demand is sky-high.

Some things I've tried:

- Good education?  ~180ish.  Check!
- Police, fire, hospital, etc. coverage?  Check!
- Good transit?  I've got busses, subways, and monorails.  Check!
- Plenty of plazas nearby?  Check!
- Airport service?  Small international airport..  Check!
- Good CO$$$ desirability?  Check!

The only thing that seems to be missing is high Customers in my commercial zones..
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on January 25, 2010, 12:12:11 AM
Check to make sure you have the CO$$$ sets installed. Aside from that, make sure you've got the desirability for it.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: shlarin on January 25, 2010, 05:57:05 PM
Hmm..  for some reason, my ploppable CO$$$'s do create jobs and don't get abandoned..  guess this is an acceptable "bandaid" to stabilize my city's economy while providing the R$$$ folks with jobs (my actual CO$$$ drive isn't very high to begin with..  the lack of it and the inability to develop caused its demand to skyrocket.)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: spring_onions on May 17, 2010, 05:41:00 AM
Quote from: shlarin on January 24, 2010, 09:18:37 PM
I've started a completely new region under CAM..  For some reason, I'm getting absolutely NO CO$$$ development..  I'm getting tons of CO$$ development, with skyscrapers up to stage 11 or 12 at this point. But when I query the Census Repository, it says my CO$$$ population is 0..  and my CO$$$ demand is sky-high.

Some things I've tried:

- Good education?  ~180ish.  Check!
- Police, fire, hospital, etc. coverage?  Check!
- Good transit?  I've got busses, subways, and monorails.  Check!
- Plenty of plazas nearby?  Check!
- Airport service?  Small international airport..  Check!
- Good CO$$$ desirability?  Check!

The only thing that seems to be missing is high Customers in my commercial zones..

I have the same problem.
I also have CO$$$ lots installed on my plugins.

What could be wrong?
Or, what could be done?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
not withstanding what said above. having proper land value, some of the larger building requireparks (plaza for CO mainly or a landmark, or a CO boosing reward, closeby to raise property value high enough  for it to grow.


I say not enough population to sustain CO$$$ at above stage 11, you need very high population with very high EQ. Ussually I don't start getting the high end CO$$$ til at least  300K in a city and  500K- 1 mil population region wide.

Also do you have to have some lower level CO$$$ ??, stage 5-8  ?? are you using the Maixs blocking mod  ??

Are you playing just one city or do you have multi-cities ??

Cam run sort on a pyramid system, you need a some lower level CO$$$ before the larger ones start appearing,

Tax rates are a big factor, try dropping rates ( below 8 % sometimes as low as 5 or 6 %)

Other reason could be using a high capasity Nam setting to early in the cities development, no traffic, no higher stage buildings.


are you zoning correctly, most of the larger stage bulidings are large lots 5x5, 5x3, 6x4, 6x6, 4x8

Also check to see if your playing your game in all tilesets, sometimes some buldings are tied to 1 tileset group, and not all of them, Chicago, NY, European, if conditions are right and your not on the proper tile set for a particular building, it will fill the demand with the next best thing available.

you using any mods  ??

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: spring_onions on May 20, 2010, 04:46:27 AM
Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
I say not enough population to sustain CO$$$ at above stage 11, you need very high population with very high EQ. Ussually I don't start getting the high end CO$$$ til at least  300K in a city and  500K- 1 mil population region wide.
That I missed.....OK, I'll note that.

Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Also do you have to have some lower level CO$$$ ??, stage 5-8  ?? are you using the Maixs blocking mod  ??
I do have lower level CO$$$ CAMeLOTS installed but there are absolutely NO lower level CO$$$ that grow/grew on any of my cities.
No, I'm not using that mod.

Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Are you playing just one city or do you have multi-cities ??
I have multiple cities, yes.

Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Tax rates are a big factor, try dropping rates ( below 8 % sometimes as low as 5 or 6 %)

are you zoning correctly, most of the larger stage bulidings are large lots 5x5, 5x3, 6x4, 6x6, 4x8

Also check to see if your playing your game in all tilesets, sometimes some buldings are tied to 1 tileset group, and not all of them, Chicago, NY, European, if conditions are right and your not on the proper tile set for a particular building, it will fill the demand with the next best thing available.
Yes to all.

Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Other reason could be using a high capasity Nam setting to early in the cities development, no traffic, no higher stage buildings.
errrr, what do you mean by this?

Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
you using any mods  ??
Only CAM and NAM.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: xxdita on May 20, 2010, 07:50:01 AM
Are you using the CAMelot Counters to track your progress? If not, search the LEX (power search for creator: RippleJet). The CAMelot Counters will show you at approximately what points you may begin to see each stage of development, based on regional capacity.

Also, HOW do you have CAM installed? As a plugin, or DatPacked into simcity_1.dat, per RippleJet's instructions on a previous page? This makes a huge difference as to how regional capacity is counted.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on May 20, 2010, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: Indisguise on May 17, 2010, 10:59:05 AM
Other reason could be using a high capasity Nam setting to early in the cities development, no traffic, no higher stage buildings.

The capacity of the traffic simulator doesn't affect the number of customers; it's only the absolute traffic volume that has an effect, and this is not dependent on the simulator capacity you use.  If you're using a low capacity simulator and have a lot of congestion, though, your traffic may spread out more, which could have a beneficial effect on outlying businesses.

Quote from: spring_onions on May 17, 2010, 05:41:00 AM
I have the same problem.
I also have CO$$$ lots installed on my plugins.

What could be wrong?
Or, what could be done?

If none of the other suggested methods work, one of the things you could is try is using the new Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool to raise the Customers/Traffic Noise Coefficient.  Its biggest gameplay effect just happens to be on CO$$$.  (This is different from its biggest desirability effect, which is on CS$$$.  But desirability for those is generally less of a problem than for CO$$$, which is why the effect of this constant is most visible for CO$$$).  This number tends to require fairly large changes to cause noticeable effects.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: 45454 on July 17, 2010, 09:57:10 PM
Quote from: shlarin on January 24, 2010, 09:18:37 PM
Only my 3rd day using CAM so this may be a basic question but..

I've started a completely new region under CAM..  For some reason, I'm getting absolutely NO CO$$$ development..  I'm getting tons of CO$$ development, with skyscrapers up to stage 11 or 12 at this point (I have a region population of about 300,000 so far.)  But when I query the Census Repository, it says my CO$$$ population is 0..  and my CO$$$ demand is sky-high.

Some things I've tried:

- Good education?  ~180ish.  Check!
- Police, fire, hospital, etc. coverage?  Check!
- Good transit?  I've got busses, subways, and monorails.  Check!
- Plenty of plazas nearby?  Check!
- Airport service?  Small international airport..  Check!

- Good CO$$$ desirability?  Check!

The only thing that seems to be missing is high Customers in my commercial zones..

I had the same problem, except mine also refused to make CS$ despite 24,000+ demand.

Do the following and watch your city flourish on the next load up. It will amaze you; no joke. My population went from 100k to 300k in a few years without adding more zones. I left it running 800 years beforehand to get CO$$$ development and nothing happened.. until the "patch".

-Go to C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe and select SimCity_1.dat. Copy this file to your plugins folder and make a special folder called SimCity_1.
-Go to a_Cam in your plugins folder and select.. oh, I forgot what its called. It'll be a dat, the largest one in the folder, and it'll say CAM in it. I no longer "have" this file, as it will be integrated into SimCity_1. Just move it into the same folder as the SimCity_1.dat file is in. Now rename it to have a z_ in front of the name. AKA, Cam.dat becomes z_Cam.dat
-Copy SimCity_1.dat and rename it to SimCity_1.bak. Put it somewhere safe; where you'll remember in case you need it. Do the same for the cam file if you don't want to re-install it later if necessary.
-Use DatPacker 2008 [ NOT ANNIVERSARY ] and datpack the SimCity_1 folder. Move this file into the -Go to C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe directory again and make sure its called SimCity_1.dat.
-Delete the folder SimCity_1.dat.

Wala! It's fixed.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: travismking on July 17, 2010, 10:51:42 PM
yes this does indeed work, but remember when/if cam is updated to redo it with original, or maybe they will fix it who knows.  Also in cam they changed the CO$$$ and R$$$ building threshold, it needs to be 3 times more desirable than rush hour's standard value for it to grow, so you tend to need a lot of parks/landmarks
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: io_bg on October 05, 2010, 04:21:56 AM
Hello, Tage, I'd like to be a beta-tester of the new CAM 2 (if you don't mind of course) :)
I hope I'm posting in the correct thread ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 05, 2010, 05:23:42 AM
Quote from: io_bg on October 05, 2010, 04:21:56 AM
Hello, Tage, I'd like to be a beta-tester of the new CAM 2 (if you don't mind of course) :)

Granted, Ioan! :thumbsup:


Quote from: io_bg on October 05, 2010, 04:21:56 AM
I hope I'm posting in the correct thread ;D

Most certainly! And the advantage is that a post in this thread alerts me with an e-mail. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TiFlo on October 05, 2010, 05:49:21 AM
All right, I've been considering asking to join the v2 beta as well for a few days. I guess I'll make the jump. Would there be room for me Ripplejet?

Reason: A few days ago, I finally datpacked the CAM with SimCity_1.dat (you guys don't worry, I did it right, followed the instructions and all). I really like what I see so far, but as a downside now my demand that was previously well balanced and all equally way up is now strongly imbalanced, with some of it in the red. The R$$ especially I couldn't get back up without dumping their taxes to 2%, which with a region at only 450 000 residents seems a no go on the long run (I've read that (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10394.0), but I'm still not convinced). It's kind of heartbreaking as I've already put tens of hours in that one, but I'm ready to start over from the ground up.

Anyway, to make it short, can I join?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 05, 2010, 06:05:49 AM
Quote from: TiFlo on October 05, 2010, 05:49:21 AM
All right, I've been considering asking to join the v2 beta as well for a few days. I guess I'll make the jump. Would there be room for me Ripplejet?

I'll squeeze you in! ;D  Welcome! :)


Quote from: TiFlo on October 05, 2010, 05:49:21 AM
A few days ago, I finally datpacked the CAM with SimCity_1.dat (you guys don't worry, I did it right, followed the instructions and all).

As you will notice, that is a prerequisite for beta-testing! :thumbsup:


Quote from: TiFlo on October 05, 2010, 05:49:21 AM
It's kind of heartbreaking as I've already put tens of hours in that one, but I'm ready to start over from the ground up.

Looking forward to hear about your impression on CAM 2 compared to CAM 1. :)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: TiFlo on October 05, 2010, 06:34:26 AM
Thanks a bunch! And don't worry, I'm not running away with the v2. I'll do reports.  ;D
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Terring7 on October 05, 2010, 06:54:53 AM
Just a small question. If i want to use C.A.M., do i need also to download the CAMelots? What if, for example, i want to use C.A.M. only to fix some bugs?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: RippleJet on October 06, 2010, 12:11:20 AM
Quote from: Terring7 on October 05, 2010, 06:54:53 AM
Just a small question. If i want to use C.A.M., do i need also to download the CAMelots? What if, for example, i want to use C.A.M. only to fix some bugs?

There are a few ingame CAMeLots included in CAM...
But they don't cover all stages and certainly not all lot sizes.
Thus, in the long run, you would probably want to download some CAMeLots.

But, otherwise, yes, you can use CAM without downloading additional CAMeLots. ;)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Kitsune on July 20, 2011, 07:24:36 PM
does the farm stages go by regional capacity or city capacity?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MithSimCity on July 21, 2011, 12:10:19 AM
Hi, first of all congratulations for this great mod  &apls I would like to know about the editing of the demand of work force from comercial and industrial buildings. I read that in CAM - Workforce and Occupation Demands (Drives) (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1878.0) . I would like to create a city that has for instance only R$$. The first that I thought of was to get functional landmarks that only give jobs to R$$ but it seems that jobs can't be 'configured' when making the lot in the loteditor or bat (I haven't work myself with these tools though). So I resort now to this mod. How can I modify the demand of workforce as well as the workforce drives?

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on July 21, 2011, 01:02:40 AM
@Kitsune: Farm stages, like all stages, go by regional capacity. Thus to grow stage 7 farms your regional Industrial Capacity should exceed 250.000. Please note that I-AG capacity (Farms) is not included in the regional Industrial capacity.

@MithSimCity: The workforce drives can be edited using the Reader, but this will affect the drives for all buildings. Thus, if you alter the drives for CO$$ to only accept R$$ workers, all CO$$ will from here on end only employ R$$ workers. (Sadly) to the extent of my knowledge this can't be set for individual buildings. May I ask why you want only R$$ sims BTW?

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MithSimCity on July 21, 2011, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: Korot on July 21, 2011, 01:02:40 AM
@MithSimCity: The workforce drives can be edited using the Reader, but this will affect the drives for all buildings. Thus, if you alter the drives for CO$$ to only accept R$$ workers, all CO$$ will from here on end only employ R$$ workers. (Sadly) to the extent of my knowledge this can't be set for individual buildings. May I ask why you want only R$$ sims BTW?

Regards,
Korot

Thanks for your input. I downloaded ILive Reader (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10417.0) and started working with it. I opened a copy of simcity_1.dat in the navigator and there I found in the tree view the part that deals with the working drives:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F14e5qnm.jpg&hash=170fc1686b5e2a9e83b2a39dfb4f8a338781fbbf)

What I don't understand is the meaning of the value column. For instance in CS$ Census one of the values of the array 'Drives' is 0x00002010 (in hexadecimal) which equals 8208 in decimal but in the topic CAM - Workforce and Occupation Demands (Drives) (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1878.0) it says that data should be in percentage. Moreover the array has 6 values when it should have 3 (for R$,R$$ and R$$$) What am I doing wrong?

PS: Concerning the R$$, I don't want only them but it was an example. But it would be good for the budget to have a city with only R$$$ residents since they pay more taxes (they demand more services but I give all services anyway. Another thing that I could do would be to raise the taxes to 20% for R$$ and R$ but won't OC $$$ decay since they can fill only 15% of their jobs?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on July 21, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
The data column is build up as follows:
RES Type, percentage; RES Type, percentage; RES type, percentage.

Let's explain this, shall we? The game not only needs to know percentages of workers, it needs to know what kind of workers they are as well. For example: if you set a percentage of 50, the game needs to know whether this means 50% R$, 50% R$$ or 50% R$$$. Therefore, it needs two values per type of RES, one to define the type of RES, and another to say how many employees will be from this type. Thus, the values 0x2010, 0x2020 and 0x2030 (for ease of typing, I drop the first zeros) aren't percentages, they refer to a type of RES:
0x2010 = R$
0x2020 = R$$
0x2030 = R$$$

So now we know what the odd values/variables are for, now let's discuss the even ones. They simply refer to the percentage of RES employed by that building.
Going by your example, the first to values are 0x2010,0x64. Since 0x64 = 100 (%) this means that CS$ buildings will employ 100% R$ workers, or to put it another way: 100% of the workers employed by CS$ are R$ workers.

So if you want to, lets say, make CS$ buildings employ 50% R$, 30% R$$ and 20% R$$$ you need to alter the data-line to 0x2010,0x32,0x2020,0x1e,0x2030,0x14.

Understood? Good, then let's now look at another (potential) solution to your problem. The problem with the previous solution is that, if you want different cities to be composed of different types of RES, you need to sweep plugins. However, using the property Demand Created, you can just created a bunch of R$$ jobs with one building, and have another building create R$ jobs, to be used in another city. Dunno if these properties can be added to  growable buildings, and I'm not gonna try, since it's not needed: doing so would allow the R$ building to grow in the R$$ city, which we don't want. One problem is though that these jobs are neither COM or IND, and thus they aren't counted by the Census Repository, counting all your sims as unemployed. But whether or not this has actual effects on the game, I do not know. Perhaps Tage knows.
More about the Demand Satisfied property can be read here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6089.msg365999#msg365999) BTW.

And with regards to CO$$$ decay because the can't find enough workers: both COM and IND are capable of surviving without workers. If anything, CAM 1 showed this, due to the double workforce demand bug. Put simply, each sims wanted 2 jobs, but could only work at one. However, two jobs did grow. CAM 2 (currently in beta-testing) fixes this issue though.
"But if COM and IND don't need workers to survive, then what do they need?" I hear you ask. Good question, and relative simple answers too.
For COM not to abandon, it simply needs commuters passing by for it to function. So as long as there is traffic on the road in front of the building, in either the morning or evening commute, COM will survive.
IND however, can survive without any humans at all, it just needs a way to get its freight shipped out, be it by truck, train, or boat (seaport).
Conclusion:  you don't have to worry about abandoning CO$$$, as long as you have commuters passing by.

I hope I've cleared up a thing or two for you.
Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Thank you a lot! Indeed it clarified most of my doubts :)

Quote from: Korot on July 21, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
Good, then let's now look at another (potential) solution to your problem. The problem with the previous solution is that, if you want different cities to be composed of different types of RES, you need to sweep plugins. However, using the property Demand Created, you can just created a bunch of R$$ jobs with one building, and have another building create R$ jobs, to be used in another city. Dunno if these properties can be added to  growable buildings, and I'm not gonna try, since it's not needed: doing so would allow the R$ building to grow in the R$$ city, which we don't want. One problem is though that these jobs are neither COM or IND, and thus they aren't counted by the Census Repository, counting all your sims as unemployed. But whether or not this has actual effects on the game, I do not know. Perhaps Tage knows.
More about the Demand Satisfied property can be read here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6089.msg365999#msg365999) BTW.

I would also like to know that. According to the thread you linked the jobs from civic buildings also create demand for workforce:

Quote from: RippleJet on October 26, 2008, 05:53:32 AM

In addition to these main means of creating demand, we can also create demand directly with the property Demand Created.
This is how buildings providing civic jobs are modded. Civic jobs are neither commercial, nor industrial.
They are just jobs, in the same way as commercial and industrial capacity is split up into §, §§ and §§§ jobs.

Civic jobs given this way do not create any demand for workforce though.
As noted above, only Commercial and Industrial Capacity leads to Workforce Demand.

Thus, Maxis circumvented this by Creating the same Demand on Amenities as on Jobs.
This will lead to the same residential growth as a corresponding increase in Workforce Demand would:


ID
Demand Created
ID
Demand Created
2010    Jobs §1810    Amenities §
2020    Jobs §§1820    Amenities §§
2030    Jobs §§§1830    Amenities §§§

Those always appear together (2010+1810, 2020+1820, 2030+1830), with identical values for the Demand Created.

Demand Created can also be used to directly increase the demand for these:


ID
RCI Type
3110    CS§ Census
3120CS§§ Census
3130CS§§§ Census
3320CO§§ Census
3330CO§§§ Census
4100IR Census
4200ID Census
4300IM Census
4400IH Census

Maxis used this to have their Casino reward increase CS demand.
Instead of providing CS jobs, the Casino adds demand for 45 CS§, 21 CS§§ and 15 CS§§§ jobs.

This is also the easiest way to create cheat buildings, which artificially increase the demand for certain CI jobs...

But you said that unlike industrial or commercial buildings -which also create demand for workforce- they aren't counted in the regional census. I don't fully understand that part but I guess it can effect the regional demand and if so it would worry me. In any case, let's wait for Tage to clarify that  :-\ (who is him? RippleJet? I searched for Tage and RippleJet appeared)

And concerning modding buildings to have commercial and industrial jobs and to house residents: I read in a post whose link I can't seem to find that plopping residential buildings is useless cause they get abandoned because from them, the game can't find a route to work. And with industrial buildings it said it happens something similar: the game can't find a way for freights. How is that? 

Quote from: Korot on July 21, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
For COM not to abandon, it simply needs commuters passing by for it to function. So as long as there is traffic on the road in front of the building, in either the morning or evening commute, COM will survive.

Oh that clarify a misunderstanding I had. You see, I like to do "planified" cities and I used to put 4 comercial blocks surrounded by twelve residential blocks because I interpreted that "clients: elevate" meant that there were many residents nearby. Some questions:

1)By traffic you mean also pedestrian and mass transit or just cars?
2)So the more traffic, the more desirable a zone is for COM to develop but traffic congestion wouldn't be a drawback for COM develop as it is for residents and commuters?

Quote from: Korot on July 21, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
IND however, can survive without any humans at all, it just needs a way to get its freight shipped out, be it by truck, train, or boat (seaport).

In the thread you linked to (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6089) It mentions "Industrial CAP relief is given by each freight truck or freight train leaving town.
Freight exported through seaports does unfortunately not provide any CAP relief." So in order to survive it needs what you said but in order to grow -incredibly in my opinion- seaport activity does not contribute. So my question is: what's the point of using seaports? I thought they were like airports that increased COM demand but they don't increase IND demand. Are they only useful as an alternative to make connections to neighbours with train or roads?

And another question that arised from reading that thread: as I mentioned before, I like to make planified cities (with cheats obviously) in which I would put all the rewards at the beginning. I remember that in some cases cities' growth was stuck. Is it because as it is explained in Demand Simulator: Demand, Supply and CAPs (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6089) that CAPs should be relieved progressibly? -like when you are told to build the mayor's house-

Another thing from that thread:
Quote
Commercial CAP relief is also provided by simply opening neighbour connections.
Below are listed the commercial CAP relieves from the first established neighbour connection.
Subsequent neighbour connections (to other cities) provide a percentually diminishing CAP relief.

Does that mean that if when setting up the transport infrastructure of my city I build a highway connecting to a neighbour it wouldn't provide a CAP relief? that is to say should I build a connection to a neighbour when I see that COM developing stagnates? or any connection made is 'remembered' to be considered as a CAP relief when it is needed eventually?

Also, do residents have CAPs? I didn't see that explained.

PS: Sorry if I went a bit offtopic with questions concerning that other thread but when I wanted to ask there It says that it has been over 90 days since the last reply so I thought I would include them here. Besides it's related to what I asked but I can ask in that other thread anyway.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on July 22, 2011, 01:28:06 PM
Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Thank you a lot! Indeed it clarified most of my doubts :)

But you said that unlike industrial or commercial buildings -which also create demand for workforce- they aren't counted in the regional census. I don't fully understand that part but I guess it can effect the regional demand and if so it would worry me. In any case, let's wait for Tage to clarify that  :-\ (who is him? RippleJet? I searched for Tage and RippleJet appeared)

Yes, Tage is RippleJet's real name.
And by Census I mean this one (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1831). It's extremely useful for testing mods that affect development (such as CAM), since it gives you a lot of data about it.

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PMAnd concerning modding buildings to have commercial and industrial jobs and to house residents: I read in a post whose link I can't seem to find that plopping residential buildings is useless cause they get abandoned because from them, the game can't find a route to work. And with industrial buildings it said it happens something similar: the game can't find a way for freights. How is that?

Hmm, I also remember reading something like that as well. Sadly, my memory is unable to recall whether or not these plopped IND buildings abandon or not. My gut says they don't. Which kinda throws the 'IND needs a way to get freight shipped to survive' statement out of the window, but the fact that you can create cities without a link to the outside world (seaport and/or neighbourhood connection) and yet still have working Industrials kinda did that already. Don't know what it is that they do need to survive then, sadly. :(

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Quote from: Korot on July 21, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
For COM not to abandon, it simply needs commuters passing by for it to function. So as long as there is traffic on the road in front of the building, in either the morning or evening commute, COM will survive.

Oh that clarify a misunderstanding I had. You see, I like to do "planified" cities and I used to put 4 comercial blocks surrounded by twelve residential blocks because I interpreted that "clients: elevate" meant that there were many residents nearby. Some questions:

1)By traffic you mean also pedestrian and mass transit or just cars?
2)So the more traffic, the more desirable a zone is for COM to develop but traffic congestion wouldn't be a drawback for COM develop as it is for residents and commuters?

1)Dunno for sure, and can't find an answer either. But I think it will simply call all traffic (Pedestrians, Cars and buses).
2)Traffic is good for COM, but bad for RES. Would you like to live next to a busy road? No, you (probably) wouldn't. Thus RES desirability goes down if traffic volumes go up. Now, if we talk about a store: Would you, as a store owner, would like to have your shop near a busy road, one with (obviously) many potential customers? Yes, of course you would. And thus COM desirability goes up, if traffic volumes rise.

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Quote from: Korot on July 21, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
IND however, can survive without any humans at all, it just needs a way to get its freight shipped out, be it by truck, train, or boat (seaport).

In the thread you linked to (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6089) It mentions "Industrial CAP relief is given by each freight truck or freight train leaving town.
Freight exported through seaports does unfortunately not provide any CAP relief." So in order to survive it needs what you said but in order to grow -incredibly in my opinion- seaport activity does not contribute. So my question is: what's the point of using seaports? I thought they were like airports that increased COM demand but they don't increase IND demand. Are they only useful as an alternative to make connections to neighbours with train or roads?

Airports don't increase COM demand, they increase their CAP, allowing you to build more COM. Specifically, CO. CS isn't capped, for some reason.
Anyway, Seaports were supposed to increase the IND cap, but for some reason they didn't. A fix is added in the BSC functional seaports, but not exactly like originally intended (The seaports just give you the max boost, instead of a boost based on usage). So, quite frankly, the original Seaports serve no real purpose.

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
And another question that arised from reading that thread: as I mentioned before, I like to make planified cities (with cheats obviously) in which I would put all the rewards at the beginning. I remember that in some cases cities' growth was stuck. Is it because as it is explained in Demand Simulator: Demand, Supply and CAPs (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6089) that CAPs should be relieved progressively? -like when you are told to build the mayor's house-

Well, for starters, the Mayor's house doesn't provide CAP relief, if I recall correctly.
But that's not the point. What's probably the case is that the first sims coming into town aren't educated enough to fulfil the jobs you provide, and that they jobs they are smart enough to do, aren't available. Another thing is that these reward don't provide (much) jobs, which is another reason sims don't flood the town en-masse.
Not that you should now resort to plopping COM and IND at the start of your game. This thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4297.msg135637#msg135637) should tell you why not.

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Another thing from that thread:
Quote
Commercial CAP relief is also provided by simply opening neighbour connections.
Below are listed the commercial CAP relieves from the first established neighbour connection.
Subsequent neighbour connections (to other cities) provide a percentually diminishing CAP relief.

Does that mean that if when setting up the transport infrastructure of my city I build a highway connecting to a neighbour it wouldn't provide a CAP relief? that is to say should I build a connection to a neighbour when I see that COM developing stagnates? or any connection made is 'remembered' to be considered as a CAP relief when it is needed eventually?

Yes, the total amount of CAP relief is stored somewhere. More exactly, the maximal capacity is stored and when you build something that provides a certain amount of cap relief, the stored maximal capacity is raised to this new level.

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
Also, do residents have CAPs? I didn't see that explained.

Yes, they do. Everything but CS has a maximal capacity, that has to be raised by providing CAP relief.

Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
PS: Sorry if I went a bit offtopic with questions concerning that other thread but when I wanted to ask there It says that it has been over 90 days since the last reply so I thought I would include them here. Besides it's related to what I asked but I can ask in that other thread anyway.

I don't think anyone minds you posting in that thread, if you have questions about it. If it were, the thread would simply be locked, instead of giving you the warning. There is a reason for this warning though, which I knew once, but now forgot.
Anyway, it's not a problem asking them here (at least not to me), since they indeed have something to do with your subject, and we're all here to help. Be it in this thread, or another one.  :thumbsup:

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on July 22, 2011, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: MithSimCity on July 22, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
1)By traffic you mean also pedestrian and mass transit or just cars?

Road traffic in this case specifically means cars, buses, trucks, and pedestrians, but nothing else.

Quote2)So the more traffic, the more desirable a zone is for COM to develop but traffic congestion wouldn't be a drawback for COM develop as it is for residents and commuters?

I'm assuming you're using the NAM here.

The answer to your question is "Yes".  COM loves traffic - the more, the better.  Furthermore, the negative effect of traffic on residentials is typically less than half the positive effect that it has on commercials.  In practice, this negative effect is generally undetectable, even for R$$$ Sims.  Traffic congestion has its own negative effects, but again, these tend to be minor in comparison to the positive effects on COM.  However, it you're starting to see red all over you're traffic congestion map, it's time to take corrective action.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MithSimCity on July 27, 2011, 12:35:37 PM
@Korot: Thanks for your help  :thumbsup: . It clarified a lot of issues I had.

Quote from: z on July 22, 2011, 01:32:59 PM
Quote2)So the more traffic, the more desirable a zone is for COM to develop but traffic congestion wouldn't be a drawback for COM develop as it is for residents and commuters?

I'm assuming you're using the NAM here.

The answer to your question is "Yes".  COM loves traffic - the more, the better.  Furthermore, the negative effect of traffic on residentials is typically less than half the positive effect that it has on commercials.  In practice, this negative effect is generally undetectable, even for R$$$ Sims.  Traffic congestion has its own negative effects, but again, these tend to be minor in comparison to the positive effects on COM.  However, it you're starting to see red all over you're traffic congestion map, it's time to take corrective action.

Ok. I used to worry because the urban assistant used to warn me about 'roads taking the place of peaceful streets' and I thought that it lowered desirability. From what I have read, it seems we should not believe blindly what the assistants tell us, they don't know the bugs of the game neither they have used ilive reader ;)

z, If you can, I would appreciate your input in this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13472.0) :) .

PS: I indeed use the NAM (version 29 with Ultra capacities)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: gamzdude on August 27, 2011, 05:11:06 PM
Hi is cam 2.0 out yet because if it is not i would love to test this super duper mod if you can fit me in ripple jet sadly i got school so i want have that much time to test   can you please reply to this thanks :) PS i would love to test the cam 2.0 skyscraper pack love sky skyscrapers.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on August 28, 2011, 04:15:08 AM
Hi Kitsune

Quote from: Kitsune on July 20, 2011, 07:24:36 PM
does the farm stages go by regional capacity or city capacity?

Goes by the industrial capacity of the region.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: adiutrix on September 09, 2011, 05:33:19 AM
Hi people,
I am back after being off for a while because of some health problems, just to see this great new SC4...but I can't found the CAM 2.0 bêta subforums anymore... is the project aborted? that would be very sad...
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on September 11, 2011, 03:06:59 AM
Well, the sub-fora for testing is a private one, you can only see it, if you are invited to test CAM 2.0. Since you have just one post, I doubt that you are invited.

The project also isn't aborted, however, it is sorta on hold, due to new testers being active right now.  ::)

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Pharaon-Kheops on September 12, 2011, 08:19:51 AM
oh, you're right.... I was on the wrong ID.... sorry
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: z on September 12, 2011, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: Pharaon-Kheops on September 12, 2011, 08:19:51 AM
oh, you're right.... I was on the wrong ID.... sorry

From the site rules:

QuoteAny member who is found to have created a "sock puppet" (i.e.: a second or otherwise multiple user that is actually the same member under another nic) for any purpose will have membership immediately and permanently terminated, and will lose privileges on the LEX.

I assume you didn't know about this, but I would recommend deleting your other ID immediately.

Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: hyno111 on January 04, 2012, 06:48:50 AM
I'm wondering,will cam 2.0 compatible with regions built in 1.0?I have to restart my region for the infamous double workforce bug, and I don't want to rebuild another one when 2.0 is out.
So,will cam 2.0 ruin my underbuilt region? or,will it bring my original buggy region back to life? I want to make sure I am not wasting time.
By the way,is it nearly finished,or I have to wait several more months?(or both) I can use that time to rebuild my region if it takes too long.
Thank you for answering!
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Korot on January 04, 2012, 09:12:56 AM
If you have already patched your CAM 1.0 install, than 2.0 Standard will be fully compatible. The other versions don't need a restart either, but their demand and CAP simulators/thingies have been altered, to allow for other modes of gameplay (rural and sky-scraper galore), so your cities might not be build for these kinds of play.

As to when it is released, it will be released when it is ready, and I have no clue as to when that is. Considering the deafening silence in the beta-areas, I don't think release is anything close to imminent, and that's not likely to change either.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Stephan_Spitti on January 15, 2012, 02:24:38 PM
How does CAM affect performance?

With the ton of dependencies, textures, probs, lots and models needed I can predict a huge impact on loading time and game speed.

More specifically, I want to know if my performance issues are caused by CAM, dual plugin files, or if it is really necessary for me to start a new region.


I'm quite excited about trying out CAM. =)
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Lowkee33 on January 15, 2012, 02:43:45 PM
CAM actually has no dependencies.  The most basic thing it does is makes 15 density stages while vanilla only has 8.  Maxis buildings and lots have been modified to deal with this change, but the options are pretty sparse once you get past stage 8.  Those lots come with the download.  If you do feel your city is repetitive, you will need to download things, but that would be the case anyway.

As far as game mechanics, the only thing I've dealt with is that since there are more lower density lots, people are more spread out from work.  Sometimes this means you have to change your network plans.

It isn't necessary to restart a region.  Basically, what will happen is that your region will drop down a couple stages, so you wont have the same density growing.  Given enough time, your city will catch up.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MVS82 on January 15, 2012, 08:35:21 PM
I have downloaded all CameLots and their dependencies, but I have still been getting boxes for certain R and CO.

Ones I find with boxes include:

Andover Tower
Sidfeldt Tower One
Five Ways Tower
SkyChase Plaza
Tibererian Thane First
One Exchange Plaza
Lyre Plaza
Golden Bank
Frogface HQ
Shiner Tower

More might be on the way
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 15, 2012, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: MVS82 on January 15, 2012, 08:35:21 PM
I have downloaded all CameLots and their dependencies, but I have still been getting boxes for certain R and CO.

Ones I find with boxes include:

Andover Tower
Sidfeldt Tower One
Five Ways Tower
SkyChase Plaza
Tibererian Thane First
One Exchange Plaza
Lyre Plaza
Golden Bank
Frogface HQ
Shiner Tower

More might be on the way

OK ... go here first. I've always found what I needed.   http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2039.0)


Second - Simtropolis links all died when they upgraded the site. Use this application. It converts the old link to the new link system

http://twoninersix.multigamemods.com/STlinkconverter/ (http://twoninersix.multigamemods.com/STlinkconverter/)

Come back here if these two resources don't find everything and I'll go on a quest.

Good Luck - Jim
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Stephan_Spitti on January 16, 2012, 03:56:27 AM
Thanks for the info so far, Lowkee33!

Yes, I have installed the "starter pack" CAMeLots, to get the most out of CAM. Could there be another problem for my performance issue?

Do redundant dependencies, like having "BSC Essentials.dat" and "bsc_Essentials_OG.dat" in the Plugins-folder, cause performance issues? I always tried to work with Cleanitol, but due to contradiction in some remove lists I might have some redundant files.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: MVS82 on January 16, 2012, 09:24:02 PM
Thanx for the info Jim.

I went through the list of STEX downloads and those I have already downloaded recently to update my system.

One error I might have made was pasting the downloaded files into the STEX Downloads folder instead of putting them in the Plugins folder.

I'll move them into the Plugins folder and then play the game to see if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Lowkee33 on February 13, 2012, 09:13:55 PM
A question about stages.  Maxis gives us 8 stages and three zone densities.  Stage 4 residents will only start growing on mid-density zones.  Has anyone tried balancing out the zone requirements for the 15 Stages of CAM (maybe put up to stage 5 growing on low density zones...)?
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: moeom on February 19, 2012, 02:07:58 AM
Just wanted to ask a question...anything question is a good question after all.  :P So here it is, now i have been reading lots about the CAMeLots, but there is just one thing i wanted to make clear. For the stages between 1-7, i can still use any building? Or will the game use the Maxis buildings instead? Seeing how i will need CAMpatible buildings to work with CAMeLots. I haven't got that part straight yet. I have already downloaded all the necessary starters pack and dependencies, and installed everything. Still new at this, so dont know much.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: jmyers2043 on February 19, 2012, 04:24:26 AM
Quote from: moeom on February 19, 2012, 02:07:58 AM
Just wanted to ask a question...anything question is a good question after all.  :P So here it is, now i have been reading lots about the CAMeLots, but there is just one thing i wanted to make clear. For the stages between 1-7, i can still use any building? Or will the game use the Maxis buildings instead? Seeing how i will need CAMpatible buildings to work with CAMeLots. I haven't got that part straight yet. I have already downloaded all the necessary starters pack and dependencies, and installed everything. Still new at this, so dont know much.

The CAM adds extra higher stages. The lower stages 1 through 8 remain intact.


Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: moeom on February 19, 2012, 05:57:47 AM
Quote from: jmyers2043 on February 19, 2012, 04:24:26 AM
Quote from: moeom on February 19, 2012, 02:07:58 AM
Just wanted to ask a question...anything question is a good question after all.  :P So here it is, now i have been reading lots about the CAMeLots, but there is just one thing i wanted to make clear. For the stages between 1-7, i can still use any building? Or will the game use the Maxis buildings instead? Seeing how i will need CAMpatible buildings to work with CAMeLots. I haven't got that part straight yet. I have already downloaded all the necessary starters pack and dependencies, and installed everything. Still new at this, so dont know much.

The CAM adds extra higher stages. The lower stages 1 through 8 remain intact.

Great, thanks a lot.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: SeanSC4 on February 19, 2012, 09:33:54 AM
Quote from: Lowkee33 on February 13, 2012, 09:13:55 PM
A question about stages.  Maxis gives us 8 stages and three zone densities.  Stage 4 residents will only start growing on mid-density zones.  Has anyone tried balancing out the zone requirements for the 15 Stages of CAM (maybe put up to stage 5 growing on low density zones...)?
It is very trivial to change the densities that buildings grow at by merely altering the LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes entry in the .sc4lot file so that it includes 0x01 and your building will grow on low-density zones. I've altered dozens of buildings in this manner and they grow fine.  Based on my own experience and experimentation, the growth stage has no direct effect on the zone densities since they are governed by another property. I've spent WAY too much time balancing out my own plugins so that certain sets of buildings grow on various zone densities and use the LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes as another way for me to control what grows where.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: Lowkee33 on February 19, 2012, 10:25:30 AM
The height of the building is what determines zones in PIMX, for Residents:
<ZONING purpose="R" value="1" stages="1,2,3" height="25"/>
<ZONING purpose="R" value="2" stages="1,2,3,4,5,6" height="100"/>
<ZONING purpose="R" value="3" stages="1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15" height="10000"/>


Anything higher than 25 doesn't grow on a low density zone.  A little buggy, anything higher than 10,000 meters wont have a zone at all.  I don't think we can see that high in-game, but still.

Zone Type for Maxis seems to be whatever they wanted.  There are some CS$$1 and CS$$$1 6x6 and 6x5 lots that I would never grow because they are mid density.  I'm not trying to do anything on a case by case basis, including zone perfectly or make things historical.  I wrote a reader script that adjusts zones based on stage, all I have to do is change a 3 to a 4 and I change change every lot I have.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: anthonyca30 on February 20, 2012, 05:50:22 PM
Took me two to three weeks but i think i got all of the CAM files.  :-\ &apls :thumbsup:
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: moeom on February 21, 2012, 06:12:12 AM
Quote from: anthonyca30 on February 20, 2012, 05:50:22 PM
Took me two to three weeks but i think i got all of the CAM files.  :-\ &apls :thumbsup:

Wow! Congrates mate.
Title: Re: CAM - General Discussions
Post by: anthonyca30 on February 21, 2012, 12:37:49 PM
The clean files help alot.