FrankU's Lottery - Space Center update

[FrankU]

Hi whatevermind,

Thanks for your interest and advice, but I know how to change the occupant size. The fun is: this new occupant size appears only in a lot that has been made after the change! So the already existing reward lot is not affected. And when I try to make a new lot something seems to get corrupted and both Maxis Lot Editor and the game crash.
I seem to be at a dead end here...

[FrankU]

Hi to all of you that take interest in my work.

First of all: I decided to rename my thread into "FrankU's Lottery".  The old name bothered me already for quite some time. I hope this does not mean that I lost all of you.... In case everything keeps quiet this week I'll rename it back to the well known old one.

Anyway, I think I will survive. And I have some developments to show.

I had this problem with the occupant size of the building. As I intend the Lighthouse lot to stand on a dune or rocky location the foundation becomes important. I found a solution that works. It is very simple: in Reader I change the occupant size to the size the new model has. When I open this lot in SC4-Pim the building square still has the old size, but in the game the size is correct now, so that the foundation shows up where I want it to be.

So I also decided to throw the base texture out. And in order to avoid the water bug I also did not use overlays. So I took a ploppable sand prop, shrunk it to a useful size and plopped the paths away.

Here is the result on almost flat land. Nice, isn't it?


And the night view


But what happens when you place this lot on a dune? You get this.


If you look closely you see that the foundation shows under the house. But it has no floor! You see only walls and where the floor should be you look into the hole and see a part of the textures that are in fact lying on the terrain. It is the first time I saw this. Probably because I hardly ever build my cities slopes... A flat homeland, you see....
So is this normal? Is this just another Maxis flaw or did I screw up somewhere?
It is ugly, to say the least.

The square shadow on the left side of the Lighthouse tower is probably a flaw in the shadows of an underground prop that gives a foundation to the Lighthouse when that is on a steep slope. I hope I can change that.

And the last issue: mrbisonm made five different textures of this model. So should I make one lot with a prop variation, so that every time you plop the Lighthouse you get one of five textures, or should I make five different lots? I would like to do the latter but it will take some time...
May I have your opinions?

[vester]

Nice work, Frank. I really like this lighthouse lot. 


Maybe the foundation should follow the outside walls and with custom lods ?
Add some stairs from the doors down.

Have a look at some of C.P.s slope friendly stuff.

[cogeo]

Frank,

About the problems with the foundation, I'm not an expert, but I think the best you can do is look into the ingame foundations (I think they are all in SimCity_1.dat) and see if they indeed have a model covering the top. I think they don't, they are just "walls" as you said, and this sounds reasonable, because the top is supposed to be covered by the building's model. Furthermore their size is variable (determined by the Occupant Size), so it looks like these are not normal models (with LODs and such), so the solution of custom LODs that vester proposed may not work, I'm afraid. Anyway, browsing through the ingame foundations may let you find the most suitable one.

If you find that all foundations are like this (no top face, only walls), there is a simple solution, quite "interventive" though, which is no other than... adding the missing "floor" yourself! Get a flat model (top face only) from the NAM or SimCity, find a proper texture, turn it to FSH and apply it to the model. Then append the flat model to the house. And voila, you've got a floor.

As for the shadow, I remembered a subway model I made for RTMT some time ago:



Quite nice a model, but the shadow is wrong (look at the day images). Normal shadows in SC4 are cast from the left side to the right (as you view the model) for all four rotations. This effect, which I named "negative shadow" is caused by the part of the model that is below ground level, and IS a game bug.

I experimented quite a lot, and found some way to remove it. Here is another pic (check the model at the top-left and compare it to the others):



It was quite tedious, and really hard to do because in this case the model needed to have an underground part (the stairs). But it was doable, although this is not possible for every model.

In your case, I have both good news and bad news. The good news is that it is easy to find, just open the model in the reader and see if it has underground parts. The bad news is that it cannot fixed without modifying the BAT scene. But the fix should be quite easy, move the LODs so that they start from the ground level, not below, and remove the underground objects too (btw I don't see why this model needs to have an underground part anyway). Preferably a thin base could be added around the lighthouse, with materials like pavement, stones and the like, which should be of square shape (for obvious reasons). Or instead you can use the same technique I proposed for the house.

[APSMS]

Although the precise choice would be nice, I would prefer a prop family instead, since it leaves less clutter in the menus; a family of LOTs would be easier to find, but the last thing I need is more scrolling. It's already bad enough with all the mods I have that fill "unused" game menus (like health, power, water, garbage even!), to say nothing of my parks menu.

I like the path to the lighthouse. Now everyone can be an MMPer without ever touching one! They blend in nicely, too.

[FrankU]

Hi Vester, Cogeo and APSMS, thank for your feedback.

Now for the lots and their problems.

Vester, the model of the house is not mine. It is made by Meurdoos a.k.a. Marco Heutink, so I have to work with what I have got. I cannot change anything, except what can be done with Model Tweaker.

The foundation issue

I tried to change the foundation, but this became a very frustrating job. Maybe due to the fact that I live in a country where locations for houses are always flat...

First I simply tried to exchange the existing foundation by another one in LE. But there was no result.
Then I changed the lot foundation, thinking that this might do the trick. No result.
Then I took a look at the foundation models in SC4-Pim, wrote down the instances of the ones I liked and edited my lot in Reader.
Funny enough the building foundation is not in the building, but in the lot exemplar. But I guess that is normal. When I changed the IID of the building foundation or the lot foundation..... No result. Each time I get this boiring brick without top.

Then I trried to find the model of the original foundation and found out there is no model with the IID that is shown in the original lot of the lighthouse. The foundation is not a model! But what is is then? I have no clue. I guess some texture that is added to the sides of the underground square belonging to the occupant size of the building. Hopefully this sentence makes sense to you?

Then I thought what the heck. This brick is not oo bad. Maybe I jsut use a flat prop that will cover the floor of the building. So I was happy when I id find a flat model the size of a tile looking like dirt. I think it belongs to the landfill lot. Anyway, I made a prop, added it to the lot and thought: this must do the trick.
But no.. On a slope the prop was not alinged to the same heigth as the building....... and then I 

I got myself a sandwich..... And tend to give up on it. Maybe I just write in the ReadMe that yours truly SC4 friends will have to live with an ugly hole under the house or plop the lot in such a way that the house is on a flat tile.
Did anyone ever plop one of my lots on a slope? Probably all my lots have this problem. I just never gave attention to this issue. Living in a flat coutry makes me forget about this.

So maybe someone has a clue for me? Otherwise I give up.

The shadow issue

Cogeo, thanks for the elaborate reply.
I chose a very simple solution: I set the "is ground model" entry to "false". And gone was the shadow. The lot now looks like I want it to in that respect.
The extra foundation prop for the lighthouse was especially requested by me, because a lighthouse on a slope will show a hole under the part of the lighthouse that is on the lower part of the slope. But with this prop you will see the concrete model by mrbisonm.
I should have something similar for the house.....!

Here I used the prop on the second Light house lot, a 2x9 lot.



The number of lots

APSMS, cluttered menus. Who does not suffer from this too?

I think I am going to make the following options:
1. Six different reward lots.
Five containing one model each, one containing the lighthouses as a prop family.
You may only put one of these lots in your plugins folder, because there will only be one replacement lot for the original Maxis Lighthouse.
2. Six different lots as ploppable landmarks.
These lots look exactly like the rewards, but can be found in the seaport menu.

You will be able to delete all lots you do not want.

Can you live with these options?

[cogeo]

So there's a separate prop that serves as the foundation? Then it's really easy, just set it to not cast shadows (IsGroundModel=false), as you did.

[Jack_wilds]

the game plan for options covers the range of use and flexibility... see no issues with that 

[FrankU]

Thanks cogeo and Jack_wilds,

But can anybody shed light on my foundation problem?

[vortext]

Bit confused as to which kind of foundation you're talking about exactly. Is it the custom model Fred made for the lighthouse? If so, you'll first need to make a foundation exemplar and attach it to the building exemplar (look at CP houses).

If you're talking about the ordinary Maxis foundations, these are just textures indeed which wrap around the lot or the LOD. To get rid of it completely you can set the IID to 0x194B0000 and make sure the Building Foundation property is present in both the lot and building desc. Hope this helps.

[FrankU]

Hi Vortex,

Although you wasn't sure of what I asked, and although you answered my question only partial, it was enough for me to find out what to do. 

So what I did:
1. I searched for an existing foundation model in Simcity_1.dat that fitted my taste.
2. I copied its S3D exemplars into a fresh dat file.
3. Then with Model Tweaker I changed the size so that it fitted the Occupant Size of my Zeeland house.
4. Now I made a foundation out of the edited model.
5. Then I added the property "Building foundation" to the building exemplar of my Lighthouse lot.
6. As last referred to this foundation exemplar in the lot and in the building exemplar.

And voilá

Ceci c'est ma fondation magnifique!



I like it, yeah!

Thanks go to (in reversed order of appearance...)
Vortex,
Cogeo,
mrbisonm for the Lighthouse models,
Meurdoos for the Zeeland houses,
Cogeo for the Model Tweaker,
Wouanagaine for SC4-Pim,
Ilive for the Reader,
And well, don't forget: Maxis for Simcity in the first place.

[vortext]

That's a pretty neat solution! 

[FrankU]

That's a pretty neat solution! 

Merci beaucoup!

And now the next issue: When I plop the long lot (9 tiles) on a decent slope the ground is flattenend! I set the property "LotConfigPropertyMaxSlopeAllowed" to the absurd value of 1.000.000. One million! One million of what? Not degrees, I guess, but what then? Anyway: the ground is still flattenend. Do I do something wrong here? The lot is meant for a sloping dune, in order to have the lighthouse on top and the house underhill next to the street.

Don't bother for images.....

This game is full of mysteries!    and sometimes 

[vortext]

You need to set 'MaxSlopeBeforeLotFoundation' as well and with a value larger than 'MaxSlopeAllowed'. My default is 201 and 200 respectively and yet to encounter a slope it couldn't handle.

[kelis]

WOW, I lost some updates but now I have to say that I can't wait to put my hands in this pack, the result looks really nice and I like so much that we can plop the lighthouse in everywhere with that "Hidden - texture", fantastic job Frank I like it so much.

# Jonathan

[w_swietwoot]

This lighthouse project is looking really great. Especially with the custom model set from Fred!

Just giving my opinion on the menu issue: A building-family of the lighthouse and just one menu icon would be my favorite option.
A random lighthouse model every time I would plop it would be no problem for me. And it would add only one icon to my (-completely clutterd and terribly overcrowded-) menu.

Anyway, I'm already looking forward to the download...

[FrankU]

You need to set 'MaxSlopeBeforeLotFoundation' as well and with a value larger than 'MaxSlopeAllowed'. My default is 201 and 200 respectively and yet to encounter a slope it couldn't handle.

Pffff, stupid that I forgot this!
Thanks. It works now.

Working on the third lot.

Nobody has to fear for cluttered menus. In the first place because they are cluttered already, but in the second place because I give you options to delete the unwanted lots.

Thanks Jonathan and Wouter to drop by!

[mrbisonm]

Just giving my opinion on the menu issue: A building-family of the lighthouse and just one menu icon would be my favorite option.
A random lighthouse model every time I would plop it would be no problem for me. And it would add only one icon to my (-completely clutterd and terribly overcrowded-) menu.

I'm with you 100 %. My opinion also.

Fred

[FrankU]

Hmmmm, allright guys,

Yesterday evening I was trying to do the third lighthouse and the repetition was getting a bit boring. But I have two basic ideas for the Lighthouse: one is the type you saw already, the other is for an industrial seaport surronding. With base texture this time!
So I will restrict myself to two variants, both with the lighthouse as propfamily. You then can choose which one you use in your region. And of course I will add landmark ploppable ones. Maybe IM with one job? To be found in the seaport menu?

Thanks for the support.

[mrbisonm]

....sounds good. If you add IM jobs, then I recommend 2 or 3 jobs instead 1.
One general mechanic to maintainance the lighthouse and its function, one gardener for the exterior surroundings (snowclearing in the winter) and one administrator and/or owner.

Fred