Dutch, Flemish dikes/seawalls

[Gerard79]

Hello,

Being flemish myself I grew up behind the dikes of the Schelde, protecting us from high tides en creating some lovely polders. Ofcourse I had to recreate some of these dikes in Simcity but although there are many many seawalls available (for which I like to thank the creators) there is no real way of creating realistic dutch/flemish dike-systems. I used plopable rocks, stuffed the place with plants (making it more a dune then a dike) but I am not content with the result; it just doesn't feel right.

Would it be possible to create a plopable-on-land realistic dike-system (conforming to different heights: less or equal to 8 meters for realisme, straight and diagonal)? Maybe using overhanging textures (as in many seawalls) to make it connect with the sea? I attached some pictures and one picture in which I photoshoped Jeronjij seawall unto a dike of about 4 meters, just as an example. Also you can see how I tryed to solve the transition with grass but in reality this isn't so (see link). Leaving it uncovered is just plain ugly.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:HondsbosscheEnPettemerZeewering.jpg

I have no skills in creating bats nor do I have the right software or hardware (Mac). I hope to see some talented BAT'er help me out on this.

Best wishes,

Gerard

[BarbyW]

Having seen the picture you posted at Simtropolis, it would be relatively easy to make a set of straight seawalls using marrast's embankments with a low/medium wealth grass texture in place of the sandstone bricks. Unfortunately marrast BATted the sandstone texture into the diagonals so it isn't possible to make those into the sort that you want.

[Gerard79]

Dear BarbyW,

Thank you for your answer. I'll skip the changing-Marrast-embankment-set-idea. I always had trouble in the transition from plop-grass to either beach or water, it feels unnatural. Ofcourse the game is limited in it's realism but so much has been done by some great and creative people in beefing the game to another level that it's hard to accept some set borders when you come across them while playing.

Does you or anyone have any suggestions for a 'natural' transition? Ofcourse I cannot suggest or start a project for realistic grassy dike system having no skills but maybe someone is tempted to create such a thing.

Thanks again,

Regards,

Gerard

[BarbyW]

It may be possible using JRJ's seawalls or mas71's walls but you will need to experiment and see what works. They may make a set more suitable for you.

[Gerard79]

Dear BarbyW,

Thanks again. I have experimented with every possible seawall available, from Marrast, JRJ, Pegasus to Japanese walls,..., making my port-menu quit suitable for any possible seaport yet strained if it comes to my beloved-would-be dike-system. The present walls used are I believe japanese of origin yet props as the lights, fences and what looks like embedded tracks betray it's real purpose. I cannot remove these props lacking the skills and software to create my own custom lots (if at all possible). Maybe, if possible, I can ask you? I would not want to lose the original lots since they are quit wonderful in something like a diagonal harbordock.

Once again, thank you for your quick response and advice.

Kind regards,

Gerard

[BarbyW]

Which are the ones you have used? I will see if I can help.

[Gerard79]

Dear BarbyW,

I am grateful allready. The walls which I have used are NOB wall set which can be found here (this is the google-translated website, which means: funny english):

http://translate.google.be/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftokitoko.hp.infoseek.co.jp%2Flot.htm&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8

http://tokitoko.hp.infoseek.co.jp/lot.htm (original link)

They can be found under 'others' part (bottom page), nicely translated as: Set menus - revetment sea facilities:
+ Expansion Pack + erection sidewall transportation bus stop [the menu]. (Walls volume one is to the left)

I'm 95% sure this is the right download. It's ofcourse the concrete version.

I hope you can make something out of it. Please take time. Many thanks.

I won't be able to respond anymore this evening since it's running late.

Goodnight,

Gerard

[FrankU]

Hi Gerard,
I grew up nearby this Hondsbossche Zeewering and I have had the same question. Not that I have a real answer, but after having read this thread I came up with an idea.

At the first place; when I want to make a dyke, I do it by using Smoncrie's ground lifter, to raise a tile up to 15 meters. This is much higher than the dykes in RL, but that is a totally different problem. Then I extend the dyke by plopping single street tiles. I could show you pictures of the results, but not now, because my time is limited (need to go to sleep).

Then I have been searching for textures to apply on the dykes. Until now I just do without, so I have grass dykes. Not too realistic next to the sea, but with rivers it's OK. I also experimented with Jeronij's seawalls, highwaywalls and other textures, but yet didn't find something I really liked.

But, hey, I thought it mghit be possible to make some texture combinations on especially designed lots. Maybe with some rocks along the shoreline/waterline... well, the line where the waterlevel hits the wall.

Maybe I find time to think something up. I just fear for the diagonals....

[Gerard79]

Beste FrankU,

Don't you resent the fact that we can't build proper dikes in Simcity. The Hondsbossche Zeewering is ofcourse a little bit different then the Scheldedijken which are less impressive – just some few meters of grassy hill stopping the polders from being flooded.

Raising the ground to 15 meters was one of the first things which I did to get enough 'shadow' so it actually looks like a dike in game-mechanics. But it's looks so awful when plopping houses behind it. It is just to high so I started experimenting with lower dike (4 - max 8 meters). To combat the lack of visual appearance of the dike I plopped it full of low-wealth slope friendly grass. The result is, you can see, a 'sortof' dike but the disadvantage is the transition to gamebeaches or sea. (see earlier picture posts). I then tryed experimenting with different seawalls, plopping JRJ rocks, some fauna, etcetera but nothing really looks like the real stuff. I would plop JRJ concrete-block seawalls but there are no diagonals (and I have rarely seen a square dike). Currently I'm using NOBs seawalls which are more or less concrete plates, some lights and smaller props which comes closer to some dutch dikes (see picture). It is far from perfect and it needs some work and toying for farther realism. It is the best which I have done so far using existing lots. I hope BarbyW can remove the props on the walls so I don't have a very nice but unrealistic lightshow on the shores.

If you can design some lots, this would be nice. Being dutch you have even more experience with dikes. Diagonals would be a must and I realize that even a straight-on, corner dike system which looks realistic (I'm thinking concrete blocks, basalt, etc.) would be... a lot of work. At the moment though I waiting for a reply from BarbyW.

Groeten,

Gerard

[BarbyW]

I have the NOB seawalls and will put your request in my queue. This latter is quite long at the moment so it won't be done quickly. Maybe FrankU will be able to do it as he is a competent lotter. Please keep me informed.

[Gerard79]

Dear BarbyW,

I can wait. Thank you for the time. If FrankU has the spare time I will certainly ask him.

FrankU, do you have some spare time for some changement de lots?   

Regards,

Gerard

[FrankU]

Maybe FrankU will be able to do it as he is a competent lotter. 

Hey, you make me blush.... I never thought that way of myself.

There are several things I want to say.

1. I thought of lotting some existing textures with maybe some rocks, so that we would end up with a series of lots that give us the effect of concrete dykes with something interesting on the waterlevel. In principle it must be quite easy. The problem is maybe especially with the edge from concrete to water. I thought of putting some squares without base texture, but with some props; the rocks, to hide the edge.
By the way: it is quite important what terrain mod you use. I use Meadowshire together with Teirusu's limitless beach. It gives me harbours full of greyish sand with some green spots. Very useful for riverbanks and undeveloped harbourland, but useless for beaches. But there is nothing I can do about it right now.

2. Lotting is fun to do but it takes time. And that is available in small amounts in my life. Like maybe 5 hours a week. (this conversation with you I can do at the office in lunch time). And in these few hours my first priority is with the developing of my region.

3.  The largest problem with dykes it the level question.
In the first place it is not possible to make the land lower than the sea, except if we would plop the sea, which I do not reccomend. So the land is always higher than the sea.
As I strated to develop my region I made all the land completely flat on harbourlevel (Terraformer, largest brush, make harbour). Then I raised the land on one spot with Smoncries ground lifter up to 15 meters above harbourlevel. Then I extended this level on all areas that are not meant to become water or harbour. So, if I am correct, almost all my land level is 16m+ sealevel. The dykes I use are raised another 15 meters. The dyke is then 31m+ sealevel. Way too high for realism, but hey....
I also tried to make dykes 8 meters high, but they are hard to see in the picures. I did not yet find a way to let them be seen better.

So these 31 meters should be covered with some realistic textures. I'll try to find some solution that works. But you must be patient..... I suggest you take a good 

[FrankU]

As a byproduct of this discussion I want to show a small tutorial:


Edit:
I removed this tutorial to the thread I just started today:
A Dutch Treat - the history of dikes.

Click here:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5991.0

[MandelSoft]

Nice tutorial, FrankU. It makes the game more dutch  !

[Vario80]

Interesting tutorial Frank, i'm going to try it out.   

[Gerard79]

Dear FrankU,

Thanks indeed for the tutorial. The dikes next to the river look very nice, esspecially with the terrain mod, the sheep and the detail. Better then mine at the moment. To bad I cannot run this mod for some reason it won't change, the rocks will, the water too but the grass.... The dikes next to the sea do the trick. I see you have revamped JRJ old seawalls? Losing the props and trees? It looks much better this way.

The only problem with this approch to dikes is indeed it's height. In real life it would look more like a hill then a dike (ofcourse it will problably stop the water even better in reallife too). I usually build 'villages' behind the dikes using dutch Lots, adding to the unrealism, therefore I chose lower dikes and add grass for 'height' effect. Hence my problem: the transition from grass to real water. I also tryed to combat this using seawalls but I cannot change the lots as you can making it difficult. We'll see.

Regards,

Gerard

[FrankU]

Gerard,
As you can see in the former post: I moved my tutorial into another thread. I guess that I am going to do some more work on the project and therefore started my own thread.

Hopefully I do not act too much against the rules of the forum? If yes, please punish me softly...

But the discussion on your question needs to stay here, of course.

I will see if I find time to work on it.

[Gerard79]

Dear FrankU,

I don't think it will be a problem. Please keep me informed of the development of the dikes. Since I cannot BAT, LOT or model I will not be of any great use in the project but I'll like to see how it goes. I'm excited. The discussion on this thread has basicly ended since the primary question has been solved, granted a chance of 'a possible dike by a BAT'er'. If someone else feels the desire for creation... be our guest.

Kind regards and once again thank you FrankU and BarbyW,

Gerard

[FrankU]

Gerard,

I finished the relotting, renaming and re-editing of the first seawalls series. I put the pictures on the "Dutch treat" thread. They are nice and useful for dikes.
Somehow I tend to confuse these both threads. I fear I did something stupid by starting my own.....

Anyway, I hope I'll find time to edit the second series of NOB lots soon. They are useful, I think.

This might sound as a criticism on NOB, which is of course a dangerous action, but still there is something to say.

The lots NOB made do have some landmark and park effect. I think that is not appropriate for seawalls. Furthermore the second series do have some props on them, but they are not enough to make a good quay or seawall. The second is that the lots are not placed in a logical order and some are even to be found in another menu. And last, but that might be very personal, I do not understand the icons, so I tend to plop the wrong lot, need to bulldoze it and replop...

So now I try to make the lots the way I think they are useful. Don't know if it is allowed to release such edited lots...
What do Barbyw and Jeronij say?