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Author Topic: Has anyone thought of...  (Read 19085 times)

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Offline vortext

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 12:50:55 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to answer all of our questions and remarks. It did clear things up for me and it sure seems like you know what you're talking about so here my two cents, starting again with the gameplay at large (regionwise so to speak).

Would it be possible to let go of predefined tile sizes alltogether? Lets say, for example, I wanted to contruct a railway through the city. First I would select a narrow but tall area from the citymap, covering the entire stretch of railway. This area would then be loaded into 'game' mode, maybe with less detail or something to ease the burden on the cpu. When done with laying the tracks, I would save and exit to the citymap. Next I want to work on an area surrounding a train station so I would select a much smaller area from the citymap and load that into 'game' mode with full details.

Actually I imagined this kind of workflow a long time ago. It would be so nice if one was able to switch back and forth between different levels of representation and detail, depending on the project at hand, e.g. constructing a highway or landscaping a citypark. Which brings me to another point, in part because of this remark by FrankU.

And another thing: what we miss in SC4 is the ability to make our own menus and submenus for ploppable items. It would be very practical if you could think of a system where everyone would be able to add extra menus in some kind of way.

Overcrowded menus are notorious in SC4, especially the park menu. So what if instead of plopping parks and plazas, one was able to designate an open area as public space and a menu would appear where one could choose which pavement to use, where to put benches, trees, planters, fountains, kiosks etc. Or maybe it's a small open area in a residential neighbourhood and one wants a public garden, or a soccer field tailored to the space avaiable. What I'm proposing is basically an integration of the LotEditor into the game. Of course that isn't feasable for growable stuff but it would still be pretty neat to have for public spaces. 


but for the most part models and properties there off should be readable by the new application.

That would be awesome! Over the years there have been a number of attempts at an alternative city simulator (btw, are you familiar with BoomTown over at Simtropolis?) and as I see it, the biggest challenge is to get people to actually play it, i.e. develop a critical mass of users so other folks will also let go of SC4 and start creating content for the alternative game. Though SC4 is almost a decade old, the main reason it's still around is the abundance of custom content. If only a part of that would be usable in the new application, it would make the transition that much easier and atttractive. 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 01:06:40 PM by vortext »

time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 12:50:55 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline mike3775

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 01:22:19 PM »
Quote
What I'm proposing is basically an integration of the LotEditor into the game. Of course that isn't feasable for growable stuff but it would still be pretty neat to have for public spaces. 

I don't see why that wouldn't be possible, considering simcity 2000 you zoned airport and seaport like you do with R,C,I in SC4 where you set the size and the game determines what is built.  I can't see why all the different types of parks that are available couldn't be grown in an area zoned for parkland

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 01:22:19 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline vortext

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2012, 01:30:05 PM »
Quote
What I'm proposing is basically an integration of the LotEditor into the game. Of course that isn't feasable for growable stuff but it would still be pretty neat to have for public spaces. 

I don't see why that wouldn't be possible, considering simcity 2000 you zoned airport and seaport like you do with R,C,I in SC4 where you set the size and the game determines what is built.  I can't see why all the different types of parks that are available couldn't be grown in an area zoned for parkland

While it's true sc2000 probably was the best version (well apart from the sound effects, just ask my parents ;) ) it kinda misses the point I was trying to make. Growing parks would still require one to do lotting outside the game for a custom park. Instead I wish to be able to lot a park or plaza ingame. No more going back-and-forth to see how it fits the surrounding area but build it on the spot.

time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2012, 01:30:05 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Cire360

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 02:31:27 PM »
If 'props' are 3d objects, I can't see any reason why i can't create a new 'park zone' and allow 'ploping' of props within this zone.  Can't make any promises right now but i will defantly look at the possibilities of implementing custom designed parks, this actually sounds similar to how i want to work with the new lane technology.

Trust me when i say i'm quite aware of the issues within the game menus.  I've already given it considerable thought.  And I've come up with 2 minor solutions that im thinking of working with, the first is that you can 'right' click on the item and it will popup with 'Pin to top', 'Add to Favorites', the pin to top option will move the object to the the top of the menu list, the Add to Favorites, will add the item to your favorites menu, so that you can place all your favorite plopables and what not in a new 'favorites' menu entry.  I know its not the perfect solution but its something to start with, we'll know more once GUI work starts.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 02:31:27 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline catty

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 03:58:27 PM »
...Instead I wish to be able to lot a park or plaza ingame. No more going back-and-forth to see how it fits the surrounding area but build it on the spot.

you can do that in Cities in Motion see here

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10196.msg414264#msg414264

I took some pictures of doing just that, as everything in CIM is ploppable and you paint the ground

-catty
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 03:58:27 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Unassigned

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2012, 09:57:18 PM »
Instead of fixed rules for who uses which kind of transit, why not give the user the freedom to set up transport preferences, something akin to the NAM Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool? Mass transit vs. car usage varies a lot from city to city and between different cultures. Such config options may also help you tune the traffic sim to your liking.

In present-day cities such as Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Beijing, a significant part of the workforce commute to work on bicycles. I realise adding bicycles as a functional transit option is not a trivial matter, stuff like roadside bike lanes and bike paths need to be implemented, but this would imo be a much more interesting addition to the game than having to deal with sewage pipes.
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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2012, 09:57:18 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline FrankU

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2012, 01:49:27 AM »
Quote from: FrankU
Please don't think the farmers are only stupid.
First please forgive me, I in no way consider anyone 'stupid'.  There is a lot to farming, I know as when I was younger i used to work on a farm, way back.  However lets face it the farmer himself maybe knowledgeable but most of the workforce he employes are just general labors.

Oh, you probably thought I felt insulted. No no. Don't fear. I just meant that I do not like the SC4 effect of education. Above 40 points nobody wants to work on the farms anymore. It would be not good and not realistic. On a broader scale the farming option is a bit underestimated in the original SC4. It would be nice if you could give this industry type a more mature role in game. But seeing your explanation about food being a neccessary resource, I think you won't disappoint me there.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2012, 01:49:27 AM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Cire360

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2012, 02:03:03 AM »
Options, variables, constants, game-flow can all be debated over later.  While I agree that 'constants' should be avoided as much as possible, except where applicable.

I'm going to take a few moments to 'explain' in detail exactly where I am on the project, so that you have an idea, of whats been done, and whats next, ect.

Many of you have run 'command prompts' or something similar on other systems, where you pretty much get a black window with a input, where you can type in a command and some result will be printed back to you.  This many refer to as a 'console window'.

I've written the simulator to use a console window (for now).  Why?  Its lightweight and compiles quickly, its super easy to debug in as you don't have alot of additional libs to compile, link, step through, ect.

The downside is its hard to get a 'visual picture' of whats going on.  Also think of when you zone an area using a mouse, doing this in a console window i must pass 'commands' via the window that it will understand, for example 'Using RESZONETOOL construct_zone (4,3,8,7)' which means to starting at x,y (4,3) construct a 4 by 4 zone, of residential.  Another reason is that I can set this up as a service, and keep passing in commands to it, i can also query it for any information i want, such as a small text map visulaizing whats going on, a population census report, ect.

Keep in mind when I first started this it was more or less, just a simulation to see if i could get a better understand of whats going on under the hood, so that if i could replicate it then i'd should be able to build the best city as i'd have complete understanding of the internals.

About quarter into the simulation I got thinking you know this is gona work, I  wonder if anyone else has thought of doing this.  And thats when I brought it up here in the forums.

So why Haven't i converted it to a regular app yet?  Well as I said its still MUCH easier for me to debug and monitor variables in a small console application or service.

That said i haven't stated the best part yet, when its running as a service, i connect to it via telnet.  Thus I'm thinking that the GUI and simulation might be a very smart move to keep them separate, simulation would run as a service, while the GUI simply queried for data, or passed in commands.  Can anyone guess what this might enable?

Obviously anyone connecting to it would need the 'hosts' to set permissions on incoming users, but it should allow full multiplayer support.  Only issue i foresee is that users on connect would need to do some type of 'unit sync' to ensure that the connecting user had all the units the host did.  Its certainly something to think about.

So what is complete?  Well most of the simulation is now complete, i can zone, they will build (imaginary houses/shops/factories/offices) which increase in density as population growth takes place.  Growth aderheres to the rules of the zones I mentioned way above.  Sims generate garabage, and commute around on roads and avenues which i've set up with temp variables, enuff to get around on.

sims marry, have kids, age, retire and die.  Kids in turn goto elementry school, then on to highschool, collage and unversity, enter the work force and the cycle begins again.

Sims look for work, and if no work is there results will vary pending on the wealth level.  Sims make food, goods, buy goods and food, and produce office services.  Growth occurs when sims are happy, and the right enviroment for them is present.  Fire and police protection both work. Though i need to do alot more work on crime.

Map format has been finished and i'm making progress on a map creator/editor.  Once the map editor is finished the gui will begin, at that point hard decisions will be upon us all, and i'll know whats going to be possible and whats not.

Tomorrow i plan on optimizing much of the code, and working on the crime simulation, once that's done the map editor will have my full focus.

Thats all for now.

++Cire.


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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2012, 02:03:03 AM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Shark7

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2012, 08:11:32 AM »
Quote from: FrankU
Please don't think the farmers are only stupid.
First please forgive me, I in no way consider anyone 'stupid'.  There is a lot to farming, I know as when I was younger i used to work on a farm, way back.  However lets face it the farmer himself maybe knowledgeable but most of the workforce he employes are just general labors.

Oh, you probably thought I felt insulted. No no. Don't fear. I just meant that I do not like the SC4 effect of education. Above 40 points nobody wants to work on the farms anymore. It would be not good and not realistic. On a broader scale the farming option is a bit underestimated in the original SC4. It would be nice if you could give this industry type a more mature role in game. But seeing your explanation about food being a neccessary resource, I think you won't disappoint me there.

That is a big problem with the game.  If you want farms, your people have to be stupid.  If you educate them, you end up with all big cities. 

I have seen lots of big cities surrounded by farms, so finding that happy medium would be best.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2012, 08:11:32 AM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline NCGAIO

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2012, 11:45:32 AM »

 'Using RESZONETOOL construct_zone (4,3,8,7)' which means to starting at x,y (4,3) construct a 4 by 4 zone, of residential.  Another reason is that I can set this up as a service, and keep passing in commands to it, i can also query it for any information i want, such as a small text map visulaizing whats going on, a population census report, ect."

++Cire.


 %confuso Interesting ... I would like to understand how their coordinates x, y are related to the GRID (assuming you are developing on the grid  to use only two coordinates) and as a result of the command console  returned to  zoning.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2012, 11:45:32 AM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Cire360

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2012, 02:27:31 PM »
I'll dump the function soon, right now i'm in the process of doing an upgrade to my toolsets.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2012, 02:27:31 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline NCGAIO

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2012, 02:37:36 PM »

What the hell .... was very interested in this subject.


Anyway good luck with the upgrade your's toolsets.


I'm eagerly waiting here for new informations.


- - Ncgaio
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 03:42:07 PM by NCGAIO »

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2012, 02:37:36 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Cire360

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2012, 06:51:27 PM »
I haven't upgraded my environment in awhile, and have been using some older SDK's.  I've generally used 2008 VS, however recently a workorder has come around which has finally forced me to upgrade to 2010.  I figured while i'm at it i might as well do all SDK's, ive got 6 down and 2 more to go.

I detest upgrading but when your hand is forced sometimes you gota do what you gota do.  As a developer we get used to our toolsets, our configuation sets, and so on, and then with 1 upgrade they like to switch everything around.  With SDK's its not to bad, but the coding environment often changes dramatically.  Anyhow once its finished these last 2 sdks, i've just gota install the SP1 update for MS and i'm good to go.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2012, 06:51:27 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline whatevermind

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2012, 09:31:00 PM »
Amazing progress.  I like the idea of a park zone, and I'll be interested to see if/how that ends up being implemented.  On the topic of the map editor, I think SC4TF is a great example to work off of, and implementing something similar to that would be great.  After the increasingly worthless terrain editing options from SC2K>SC3K>SC4, the Terraformer was a godsend.  I'd also suggest built in support for loading existing greyscale and .SC4M maps - both because they're the community standard, and there's already a lot of them out there.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2012, 09:31:00 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Cire360

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2012, 11:29:21 PM »
Finally finished my upgrades.

As promised heres the dump of the zone creation function that is a direct well after it parses my input call.
Code: [Select]
/*
** CreateZone( uint8, sint16, sint16, sint16, sinit16, unit8 )
**   Creates a RES, COM or IND zone.
**   returns a ZONE_? error ()see sc4_ProccessCmds.h for zone errors types
**   TODO: x1,y1, x2, y2 should be converted to vector for easier working with 3d gfx
**   TODO: already zone should 'convert' the previous zone to the new one.
**   TODO: Possibility to change BAD SLOPE, to query user to see if they wish to 'pay' to flatten area.
**   TODO: if it contains an object, be it a road, park or whatever, zone around it.
*/
    sint16 cSC4CMD::CreateZone( uint8 iZoneType, sint16 x1, sint16 y1, sint16 x2, sint16 y2, uint8 ZoneType )
    {
sint16 w, h, z;

if( ZoneType < SC4_RES && ZoneType > SC4_IND )
return ZONE_ERROR_UNKOWN_ZONETYPE;

w = ( (sint16)max( x1, x2 ) - (sint16)min( x1,x2) );
h = ( (sint16)max( y1, y2 ) -(sint16)min( y1, y2 ) );

cSC4_Engine *sc4 = GetSC4Engine();

if( sc4 -> IsAreaZoned( x1, y1, w, h ) )
return ZONE_ERROR_ALREADY_ZONED;

if( !sc4 -> IsSlopeOkForZone( x1, y1, w, h ) )
return ZONE_ERROR_BADSLOPE;

if( sc4-> CountAreaForObjs( x1, y1, w, h )  != 0 )
return ZONE_ERROR_CONTAINSOBJS;

if( sc4-> ZoneArea( x1, x2, w, h, ZoneType, ZONE_ONLY_ON_LAND ) != 0 )
return ZONE_ERROR_UNKNOWN;

return ZONE_SUCCESSFUL;
    }

As to using sc4 terrformer, not sure i'd really have to look at the map format, all I need for my maps to work is 1 small texture, and a greyscale bmp.  Coupled with a LUA script if you want to do something unique and scriptive for your map, probably compressed with zip and extension changed to something like sc4e or something, they should be very lightweight.

The problem with greyscale maps as they exist now is i'm unsure what 'depth' factor they used.  Greyscale is used because it contains 255 max value for each pixel, thus its VERY small when next to a truecolor image of the same size.  Each pixel in the greyscale map is not representative of anything but the height at that point, 255 being the highest point, 0 being the lowest.  If I set '55' being ground level, then maps would have a max height of 200 feet, and at 0 would be 55 feet below sea level.   You should be able to load any greyscale image into the editor but what it will look like is anyones guess.

To put the size of a map in perspective, I just created a simple 1000x1000 greyscale bmp, with a 16x16 truecolor texture, and a 10k lua test script, compressed it with zip, and the size is 1.08 KB (1,106 bytes), thats pretty small for a map imho, and it does NOT need to be unzipped to be used.  Using this would give you 1000x1000 map (small map but at least you get the idea.  You can tile maps as well, meaning that i could take the map.bmp inside this file, and rename it to map4b4.bmp and it will tile 4 images by 4 images, giving the total size of 4000 by 4000 tiles for use in your city.  I hope I explained this in enough detail that is understandable if not i'll try to produce a better example.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2012, 11:29:21 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline mike3775

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2012, 10:13:11 AM »
Quote from: FrankU
Please don't think the farmers are only stupid.
First please forgive me, I in no way consider anyone 'stupid'.  There is a lot to farming, I know as when I was younger i used to work on a farm, way back.  However lets face it the farmer himself maybe knowledgeable but most of the workforce he employes are just general labors.

Oh, you probably thought I felt insulted. No no. Don't fear. I just meant that I do not like the SC4 effect of education. Above 40 points nobody wants to work on the farms anymore. It would be not good and not realistic. On a broader scale the farming option is a bit underestimated in the original SC4. It would be nice if you could give this industry type a more mature role in game. But seeing your explanation about food being a neccessary resource, I think you won't disappoint me there.

That is a big problem with the game.  If you want farms, your people have to be stupid.  If you educate them, you end up with all big cities. 

I have seen lots of big cities surrounded by farms, so finding that happy medium would be best.

I have to disagree with this.  I have a farming city with a population of 8K on a large map with an Education of over 120 and I still manage to get stage 7 farms to grow.  The key in my city is the fact that I have 1 city as farms, with small housing(usually 1x1 and 1x2) and I place the large elementary school, large high school, museum, library, city college and a few other educational buildings in an area that covers everywhere I intend to zone residential, and I have a city to the south as the main industrial city where the ones who are educated can go work at the factories or high tech(which itself gets fed by another low res city to the south.

Basically, as long as I keep the population below 30K(60K w/Census Repository), education has never hurt my farming community.

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Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2012, 10:13:11 AM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Cire360

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2012, 02:54:23 PM »
First guys remember one thing schools don't work like the do in SC4.  In sc4 i can plop down a elementary school and it will slowly educate all sims to certain level, regardless if they have high school or not available to them, if I add a collage to the city and a university thier eq will soar, even if the zone only has access to a elementary school.  It won't work this way anymore.

Instead 'elementary' will slowly educate sims raising thier IQ from 50 to some set number, perhaps 75?  Checking the school level on residences will display that they have 'Elementary school education'.  This is all the education that '$ wealth require' to enter the work force.  It will take approximately 8  years to educate sims to this level. $$, $$ will require a elementary school to grow, without it they will degrade, and eventually move.

Should you provide the same zone with a high school, They will enter the school once thier IQ reaches 75,  and raise it to say 100?  Check the school level on residences will display that they have a 'high school education'.  $$$ requires this to even start to grow and will degrade and move if not preset.  $$ will become unhappy if not present. $ citizens will receive +2 to thier growth if present.  It will take approximately 4 years to complete this level of education.  Unlocked RES zones which are '$' will attempt to convert themselves to '$$' by attaining '$$' jobs at this point.  Locked RES zones will remain '$'.  A high school education allows $$ to enter the work force.

City collage, will have range limits like regular schools, if present will raise EQ from 100 to perhaps 140?  Take 2 years to do this, will add +2 to $$ growth, required for $$$ to grow,  Will display 'Collage level education' on residences whom have completed this education. '$' will not attend collage.

University, has no range limit, $$$ will not be happy until university is in city.  If present $$$ receive +2 to growth.  Willl educate sims from 140 to 200, and take 4 years to do this.  '$$' will not attend university.

Libraries, will add +1 to all $,$$,$$$ zones growth, will increase school ranges by 10% per library, and give all sims a +5 to thier IQ, must be present bfore a high school can be placed.

Museums will add +1 to alll $, $$, $$$ zones growth, will increase school rages by an additional 10%, and give all sims a +5 to thier IQ, must be present before a collage can be placed.

IQ will effect 'product output' but i havn't decided yet on a factor.

If anyone has a better education level i'd be more then happy to listen to it (see the rest of this post for more information)

-----------------------------------------
LANE Technology exposed
-----------------------------------------
I've begun working on a new lane technology which i think many here will be able to come up with some pretty sharp looking intersections.  Those who have used 'RHW' think of a lane as 'MIS type in RHW' 1 car lane, or better yet think of it as 1 lane of a one way road.  Its the only type of road we will actually need.  Because I allow users to set speed limits of the road system this is the only type of 'road' we will need, it will allow one to design highways, roads, 1 way roads, avenues, ect.

This is my purposed  interface.
If you were to lay two lanes ran side by side, It will be 2 tiles in width, however once you use the 'doc or merge' tool to 'bind' these lanes together they will use 1 tile, and effectivly you have created a '1 way road, with 2 lanes'.  Running 2 lanes 1 way, and 2 lanes the oppotiste way with 1 space between the two, docing will create an 'avenue'. Using 3 tiles in width.

Run 4 lanes 1 way, space, 4 lanes another way, doced, becomes 4 lane avenue, using 5 tiles width.  Highways can be built  the same way, There is no limit on the amount of lanes you can combine.  The rules are 2 lanes doced will use 1 tile space, 3 lanes doced will use 2 tiles, 4 lanes doced will use 2 tiles and so on.

Enter props, I think that before you 'doc', one could add 'curbs', and other props such as sidewalks, ect. 

Once you 'doc' its finalized, and can't be changed, selecting 1 tile of this road will allow you to 'add it to your road system menu', so you'd be able to have templates of already created roads to work with so one won't need to create an avenue each time.

Because we are working with only 1 type of road system, I should be able to get pretty complex with the rules for creating them, allowing some pretty cool sloping, and intertwining, and curve systems.

Obviously this is only 1 part of the transportation system but I think it has a good design goal.



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I've begun to get rather in depth in some areas of programing, and its beginning to require alot of my attention, I just don't have time to read ideas, and make all details exposed and collect and organize ideas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HELP ME PLEASE
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What i'd like is if someone can 'collect, organize, submit to me, ideas, in certain aspects of the game.

For example:

I've pretty much decided that the current 'stage max' needs to be looked at in more details.  I believe the current stage system needs to be looked at.  I think that for each 'type' of zone we need to look at overriding population and job supplies, and balance it a bit more in detail.  Stage 1 to 8 seems to work well, and I think applying this to all zones would be a good idea.  However skyscrapers seem to enter around stage 9, upto stage 15, for RES and COM.  However  like real life, skyscrapes are not 'cost effective' to produce for one type of zone.  Most skyscrapers in real life are either mostly com or a mix of com and RES.

So i was thinking that I will display the 'stage' level of buildings on a query, once they reach stage 8, The user will have either 'a' set a option for upgrading the zone to a special zone type, or something along the lines of that.  At state 9 a building becomes 'unique',  allowing both COM and RES, at a 50/50 share ratio.  Thoughts on this and or other systems would be nice.

I need someone to organize this part, this area should cover also cover the amount of jobs available at each stage level in COM/IND/FAR, including the goods produced at each level, food ingestion levels for sims, ect.  The more details the better.

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If someone wishes they can also take on the school/education system and discuses ideas, and how it would be applied to the current simulation.  Don't forget libraries, museums, and thier effects.  You don't have to use 'my system' but can come up with a total different system if you wish.  IQ's, and thier effects on goods produced would be nice a well if any.

For both systems remember that zones can be 'locked' in which case will only develop to some point, they can also be free open, and there is no density.  The game changes density automatically as the land surrounding he area becomes used up.  Thus density still exists but its more so for internal use only.

Apologies for the length of this.  Anyone wanting to take on these areas let me know, thanks so much in advance.

Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2012, 02:54:23 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline NCGAIO

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2012, 03:35:17 PM »

......  I hope I explained this in enough detail that is understandable if not i'll try to produce a better example.



 ;D It is not necessary because everyone is so excited about discussing the design of the game that will not be paying close attention to technical details. ( suggest to refrain from detail  the subject to discussion survive for more time)


As I said before your very well thought hobby ... congratulations. :D :) :D
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 03:37:37 PM by NCGAIO »

Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2012, 03:35:17 PM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline Shark7

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2012, 01:23:22 AM »
Quote from: FrankU
Please don't think the farmers are only stupid.
First please forgive me, I in no way consider anyone 'stupid'.  There is a lot to farming, I know as when I was younger i used to work on a farm, way back.  However lets face it the farmer himself maybe knowledgeable but most of the workforce he employes are just general labors.

Oh, you probably thought I felt insulted. No no. Don't fear. I just meant that I do not like the SC4 effect of education. Above 40 points nobody wants to work on the farms anymore. It would be not good and not realistic. On a broader scale the farming option is a bit underestimated in the original SC4. It would be nice if you could give this industry type a more mature role in game. But seeing your explanation about food being a neccessary resource, I think you won't disappoint me there.

That is a big problem with the game.  If you want farms, your people have to be stupid.  If you educate them, you end up with all big cities. 

I have seen lots of big cities surrounded by farms, so finding that happy medium would be best.

I have to disagree with this.  I have a farming city with a population of 8K on a large map with an Education of over 120 and I still manage to get stage 7 farms to grow.  The key in my city is the fact that I have 1 city as farms, with small housing(usually 1x1 and 1x2) and I place the large elementary school, large high school, museum, library, city college and a few other educational buildings in an area that covers everywhere I intend to zone residential, and I have a city to the south as the main industrial city where the ones who are educated can go work at the factories or high tech(which itself gets fed by another low res city to the south.

Basically, as long as I keep the population below 30K(60K w/Census Repository), education has never hurt my farming community.

Your having better luck then me...somewhere I have a big population growth with dilapidation of my farms.  The plop and MMP farm crops are a solution, and that is what I usually turn to.

Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2012, 01:23:22 AM »

Re: Has anyone thought of...

Offline z

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2012, 03:51:31 AM »
As its very late for me, I'd like to officially state that i am with YOUR help going to create a new executable, that will somewhat use SC4 data files, to create a 'different' simulation.  What this will encompass, is totally up to us, I will take all the feedback, and support I can and tie it in where possible.

I am very impressed not only with what you have proposed, but what you have already done.  However, I think it's extremely important for you to become quite familiar with the SC4 and related EULAs, as otherwise, EA may put a quick end to your plans.  For example, you mention above using SC4 data files, but EA claims to own the format of these files.  This would seem to preclude their use in a non-EA game, and thereby render all our custom content unusable to you.  EA also claims to own the output of all its tools, such as the BAT and the Lot Editor.  Notice the following from the SC4 EULA:

Quote
E. Your Contributions. In exchange for use of the Software, and to the extent that your contributions through use of the Software give rise to any copyright interest, you hereby grant EA an exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, fully transferable and sub-licensable worldwide right and license to use your contributions in any way and for any purpose in connection with the Software and related goods and services including the rights to reproduce, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, broadcast, transmit, or otherwise communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions without any further notice or compensation to you of any kind for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions. You hereby waive any moral rights of paternity, publication, reputation, or attribution with respect to EA and other players use and enjoyment of such assets in connection with the Software and related goods and services under applicable law. The license grant to EA, and the above waiver of any applicable moral rights, survives any termination of this License.

The use of the word "exclusive" early on seems to imply that creators of custom content for SC4 cannot allow it to be used with any other game.  This particular paragraph seems to open a rather big can of worms, but I think it would take an experienced attorney to determine exactly what it means in your case, and how much of it is enforceable.

Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

Re: Has anyone thought of...
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2012, 03:51:31 AM »

 


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