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Author Topic: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE  (Read 962836 times)

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Offline jeffryfisher

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4480 on: October 13, 2018, 11:33:54 AM »
May I ask: doesn't NAM have a build-in slope mod for RHW?

Would a slope mod work on RHW that was done for the base game?

I'm asking, because I always thought RHW is - despite the other NAM networks are overrides - a separated network on its own.
I've been told that NAM has no slope exemplars, and it prolly never will (which is too bad, because slope exemplars dearly need a tweaking interface like TSCT).
~

RHW is built upon the derelict "dirt road" network hidden within the original game. Open up a comprehensive slope mod in your editor and look for the dirt road exemplar. Experiment in a sandbox.
Modding PC games since 1993 (back when we needed hex-editors)

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4480 on: October 13, 2018, 11:33:54 AM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline mgb204

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4481 on: October 13, 2018, 11:50:34 AM »
May I ask: doesn't NAM have a build-in slope mod for RHW?

Would a slope mod work on RHW that was done for the base game?

I'm asking, because I always thought RHW is - despite the other NAM networks are overrides - a separated network on its own.

Simply because conflicting slope mods can cause problems like CTDs, so if we included one in the NAM, it could be a real issue support wise. Additionally, the NAM has a pretty tight remit related to transit content, something which in light of the reduced number of developers needs reining in not expanding upon.

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4481 on: October 13, 2018, 11:50:34 AM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline Wiimeiser

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4482 on: October 13, 2018, 07:58:10 PM »
I noticed the MHO has a slope mod for ground level, but was that in the game by default? If so, then even Maxis knew their terrain engine had problems...
Pink horse, pink horse, she rides across the nation...

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4482 on: October 13, 2018, 07:58:10 PM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline Tarkus

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4483 on: October 14, 2018, 12:55:50 AM »
I noticed the MHO has a slope mod for ground level, but was that in the game by default? If so, then even Maxis knew their terrain engine had problems...

Every network in the game has a Placement Tuning Parameters exemplar (PTP, I suppose), which is what controls not only the slope factors of the network, but various other properties.  They also control construction and maintenance costs, reference the tunnel models for the network, and specify various behavioral aspects of the construction vehicles when the networks are built.  The Maxis originals of these can be found in SimCity_1.dat.  Every draggable network (including DirtRoad AKA RHW) has one in that file.

The RHW did originally include a modified Dirt Road PTP exemplar with its very first release (Version 0.12, 1.2, or "v12", depending on your view on the decimal placement), but the only reason for its inclusion was due to abnormally slow construction vehicles that occurred without it.  The reason for the slow construction was later determined to be because the ortho end stub on the RHW-4 (then the only network in the mod) had missing/broken path files, not any actual quirk with the network itself.  Once the end stub was pathed, the exemplar went away (sometime during the series of 0.13/1.3/"v13" releases in mid-2007, IIRC).

The modifications to the Ground Highway PTP exemplar in the MHO appear to be motivated by tunnels (the file is in the i_Tunnel.dat file), though it appears slope and construction vehicle settings were also adjusted.  I can't find any specific reference in our private development threads pertaining to that exemplar being added to the MHO, which, given that the notion of including it would have definitely provoked discussion, seems to suggest it was quietly slipped in there.

The potential for that issue with the diagonals with non-restrictive slope settings has been known since 2013--there's been a couple proposals for handling it, one of which involved adding additional polygons to the model to give the terrain engine another point to bend it to conform (tested at one point, though the files and results are lost), the other of which entailed raising the model by a small amount (i.e. 0.75m, a solution the L0 MHO already uses--the single-tile overhanging NWM diagonals are also raised by 0.1m--this can still mess up in certain situations).  It was also discovered that it is possible (but much more difficult) to invoke the same issue on texture-based networks.  Generally, we've recommended using a third-party Slope Mod (typically Ennedi's) as a solution.

Regarding the prospect of Slope Mods being in the NAM, the idea of actually including one has been shot down many times over the past 10-11 years (and I suspect the one in the MHO would have raised eyebrows had it been disclosed at the time--especially since its placement in load order may covertly override any actual GMHW slope settings that a user might install).  As mgb204 noted, with our current staffing levels, and the file architecture/installer mess that we currently have on our hands (unlikely to be addressed by NAM 37), we're more likely to divest the NAM itself of things like that than add them.  The whole RRW vs. Maxis Rail situation and the like has upped the complexity of that whole side of things, too.

As far as tweaking them like the TSCT, my research of our old internal development threads turned up that the idea was actually discussed when the tool was being developed back in 2010 (especially in light of the fact that a tool GoaSkin had under development years prior did actually include some semblance that feature), but the developer of the TSCT (Stefan79) hasn't been active for some time.  Having it in there would solve the issue, though the main stumbling block is that it's going to require someone to undertake the modifications.  The TSCT is open source, and the source code for the tool is up on SourceForge (need a CVS utility to acquire it).  It's Java-based . . . I've picked up the code and  might take a look, as I've done a decent amount of Java stuff, though I'm not sure I'll have the time/energy to be the one to do it in the end.

-Alex

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4483 on: October 14, 2018, 12:55:50 AM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline Akallan

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4484 on: October 14, 2018, 09:42:59 AM »
Hello, I have no problem with NAM, but I have a question about it:

Why are there no draggable networks for SAM and NWM? That is to say that for the RHW 2, you have created a new network as on the image below:


For SAM and NWM networks, place a "Starter" piece and then take the road or street Maxis to draw the roads. Same for the RHW 4/6/8 and 10. Why not create all the networks in the same way as the RHW 2, without a "Starter" piece?

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4484 on: October 14, 2018, 09:42:59 AM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline eggman121

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4485 on: October 14, 2018, 10:15:25 AM »
Hello, I have no problem with NAM, but I have a question about it:

Why are there no draggable networks for SAM and NWM? That is to say that for the RHW 2, you have created a new network as on the image below:

For SAM and NWM networks, place a "Starter" piece and then take the road or street Maxis to draw the roads. Same for the RHW 4/6/8 and 10. Why not create all the networks in the same way as the RHW 2, without a "Starter" piece?

The RHW network is based on the Dirtroad network that was an unfinished network in the Rush hour expansion of the game. No other networks can be obtained in the way of the question you are asking since it would entail a change in the .exe... Something that is definitely not going to happen.

In short the override networks are the only way to get the variety of network we have in the game today. Added to that the asymmetrical networks would have to be dual tile since they need direction. Also, RULs would need to be to created in the form of INRULs and RUL0, RUL1 and RUL2

So that is the explanation of the networks as they stand from a short technical perspective. No more can be added. Only the override networks can make networks like we have them working now. The RHW aka Dirtroad was a substantial find.

-eggman121

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4485 on: October 14, 2018, 10:15:25 AM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline jeffryfisher

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4486 on: October 14, 2018, 10:44:46 AM »
...the developer of the TSCT (Stefan79) hasn't been active for some time... The TSCT is open source, and the source code for the tool is up on SourceForge (need a CVS utility to acquire it).  It's Java-based . . . I've picked up the code and  might take a look, as I've done a decent amount of Java stuff, though I'm not sure I'll have the time/energy to be the one to do it in the end.
I'm tempted. I've done Java SE programming to make Minecraft mods, and learning Java Swing might add a nice buzzword to my resume. I've downloaded TSCT's CVS repo, but I suspect the very first step toward renewing development is going to be converting it to git.

I'll try to extract the source files and see if I understand any of them. I reckon that if I get anywhere, I'm going to have lots of questions, and this won't be the thread for them. Where should I tune in for development talk?

Modding PC games since 1993 (back when we needed hex-editors)

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4486 on: October 14, 2018, 10:44:46 AM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline Akallan

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4487 on: October 14, 2018, 12:54:53 PM »
Thank you eggman121 for the answer! ()stsfd()

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4487 on: October 14, 2018, 12:54:53 PM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline CT14

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4488 on: November 23, 2018, 01:48:37 PM »
I'm looking to retexture the GLR-Ave. It seems there is no released mod to change the sidewalk textures in the center of the tiles. Am I missing one? Thanks.

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4488 on: November 23, 2018, 01:48:37 PM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline mgb204

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4489 on: November 23, 2018, 02:11:12 PM »
Well Magneto did alter the centre of the GLR network and I've used his style as the basis for my SWN mod. But no, so far no one has gone to the effort of adding a complete sidewalk into the centre of the GLR around the rails. Depending on the colour of your sidewalk mod, you might also find the effect isn't so great if it mutes the rails appearance.

Two additional "Alternate Drag GLR" networks exist in the NAM which few seem to be aware of. The Alternate GLR Styles include both a Sidewalk and Grass variant. By simply creating one base texture override for these, all supported pieces will show that texture with the GLR rails overlaid upon them. This is by far and away the simplest method to achieve what you are after, the IDs are as follows:

Sidewalk ID - 0x5F88C100
Grass ID - 0x5F888100

Of course you don't necessarily need to make these textures as Sidewalk or Grass, any texture you want will work. Note these are "Puzzle" based textures, so will need colour-correction if using Lot Textures as your base. However GoFSH can do the colour correction for you with ease.

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4489 on: November 23, 2018, 02:11:12 PM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline CT14

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4490 on: November 23, 2018, 11:45:19 PM »
I will look into those Alternate Drag GLR, thanks - it might get me close to my goal of a 19th century dirt tram-avenue with traffic on both sides of the rails, dirt all the way across. I want to lose the sidewalks in the center.

While poking around in PIM-X, I noticed the FSH for ortho tram-ave has no alpha in the sidewalk area. Would it be sufficient to add alphas to the network to make it work like regular avenues in that regard?

Another option which occurs to me after reading your suggestions, is retexturing one-ways as dirt + a customize Alternate Drag GLR in the center would give a 3-tile wide 'avenue', not a bad fit for Old Times.

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4490 on: November 23, 2018, 11:45:19 PM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline mgb204

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4491 on: November 27, 2018, 04:01:50 PM »
I will look into those Alternate Drag GLR, thanks - it might get me close to my goal of a 19th century dirt tram-avenue with traffic on both sides of the rails, dirt all the way across. I want to lose the sidewalks in the center.

Try the attached .DAT, placing it in z___NAM should be sufficent, it will replace the Grass variant of the alternate GLR with the same dirt used under rail by the default game. I think that will be sufficient for your needs.

Quote
While poking around in PIM-X, I noticed the FSH for ortho tram-ave has no alpha in the sidewalk area. Would it be sufficient to add alphas to the network to make it work like regular avenues in that regard?

Sadly not, because when you add Aplhas to textures displayed on S3D models you'll either get transparency or black, depending on the settings of the S3D. Given they were not designed with transparency in mind, I'd wager the latter. Moreover, the function of the game that adds sidewalks to most transit pieces doesn't work for Puzzle-based setups. Hence why special mods are needed to add sidewalks to these legacy pieces.

Quote
Another option which occurs to me after reading your suggestions, is retexturing one-ways as dirt + a customize Alternate Drag GLR in the center would give a 3-tile wide 'avenue', not a bad fit for Old Times.

That's certainly a possibility, although that's a big operation in reality and the OWRs will only ever show dirt. However, my SWN and TGN mods, if you ran the scripts using Dirt instead of Sidewalks/Grass, could do this for you with a minimum effort. If you want to explore this option, send me a PM and I can help you through that.

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4491 on: November 27, 2018, 04:01:50 PM »

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Offline deanva

Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4492 on: December 04, 2018, 10:10:14 PM »
Is there a good guide for placement of bus stops and subway stations so that sims will use them?

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Re: NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE
« Reply #4492 on: December 04, 2018, 10:10:14 PM »

Re: Bus stop placement

Offline jeffryfisher

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Re: Bus stop placement
« Reply #4493 on: December 05, 2018, 01:50:50 PM »
I don't have a guide, but...
Just sprinkle them around both residential and job zones. Make sure there's one by each other transit type (major train station, ferry terminal).
I use two types: RTMT (Road-Top Mass Transit) and an airport shuttle stop. From RTMT I mostly use the cheapest -- the street bus stop, and I plop a lot of them. Warning: Lots can not get road access at a bus stop, so stops must be placed either at corners or in front of lots wider than one cell.
The airport shuttle stop acts as both a bus stop and as an airport (the notion being that it offers a small slice of airport capacity from some large regional airport somewhere else). I scatter 1-4 of these on busy avenues. They start cheap and gradually upgrade themselves through ~15 stages. I support the regional airport notion with a large, centrally located city-sector that is about half filled with modular airport components.
Modding PC games since 1993 (back when we needed hex-editors)

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Re: Bus stop placement
« Reply #4493 on: December 05, 2018, 01:50:50 PM »

 


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