[mike3775]

I agree about the dimensions right now, they do seem a tad larger than they need to be, but other than that, they really look great

[mrbisonm]

Well, the size is as a matter of fact quite real. My neighbor raises chickens for eggs and he has some 250,000 of them most of the time. Although a chicken doesn't seem to produce a lot of manure, he still needs a big storage tank for them ,because he uses water to evacuate the manure. Therefore a big tank is needed and his is some 52 feet in diameter (approx 16 meters) and 16 feet high (approx 5 m) That is a big tank, but I even have seen bigger ones, some measuring over 60 feet easily in diameter.
That is why I have decided to create three different dimensions of manuretanks, although there are many more, but let's limit it to 3 for the moment. The ones shown above are the largest and only those 4 models will be in the pack. The most common ones used in Europe and North-America I will make will be around 30 feet in diameter, the medium sized tanks, coming up this weekend. And a smaller group for smaller farms or used as double tanks will follow.

There will also be 1 or 2 square liquid tanks and some "inside-buildings" tanks and manure, before I go on with silos of all kinds.

Fred

[vortext]

First of all let me say the tanks themselves are great, however, I do agree they look a bit oversized compared to the barn indeed. Or the other way around, the barn looks too small in comparison to the tank. Either way, they don't quite fit together though I suspect this could also be due to a lack of context. Perhaps you can show the two again, together with another prop which has a known size, say a tractor or something? That way we would get a better picture of the actual scale involved.

[mrbisonm]

The matter of sizing and scaling has come up before and I, and several others, have tested and modified the scale of the farmbuildings about 25 times within a month. So, I don't think that the scaling has anything wrong. It should be a close as possible to what it can be.
I know that these last tanks are a little bit, but they are not too big. And if you go out into the country where big pig and chicken farms are, you probably see these tanks and even bigger ones. Of course, if you live in an area where no such farms exist, then you could hardly imagine the size of these tanks.
So, I included some real life pics of these "manure monsters" that we have here in central Canada, Us and Europe all over the place in modern farmlands.

Some of them are way bigger, but this is just to give you an idea on how big they are irl.

A common Dairyfarm..........



...probably a pig or birdfarm (chicken, ducks, turkey etc).........


....if you stand beside them, you would feel yourself quite small....



...a very big pigfarm, these tanks are low but more than 180 feet wide....my model seems to be small compared to this one......lol



..and finally a last one, about the same size as the M75 above......



I will throw in a model that I was not supposed to include in the pack. It will be a little smaller than the previous one and it is bigger than the medium sized ones. I have made this one for myself, but I will include it in the pack.



Here are a few pictures of the models shown earlier, this time on a lot that I threw some other farmprops on. It will give you a good idea on how these bigger sized tanks will look ingame.









Btw, for those who do not know yet, I am a farmer myself, although my main profession is loghome designer and a part-time taxidermist (wildlife artist) for my freetime. I own a 900-some acre beef farm in the middle of Quebec's (Canada) modern farmlands with approx 150 cows or so. I don't occupy myself with it full time since I have someone to do this for me, but once in awhile I help and jump in when I'm needed. I see those farm "things" every day when I drive to town to my office. That's the reason why I love doing them in BAT.

Thanks for the comments, they're appreciated.

Fred

[vortext]

Of course, if you live in an area where no such farms exist, then you could hardly imagine the size of these tanks.

Yep, that would be me. There're hardly any life stock farms around here. Lots of tree nurseries though, maybe interesting for Frank to look into?

Here are a few pictures of the models shown earlier, this time on a lot that I threw some other farmprops on. It will give you a good idea on how these bigger sized tanks will look ingame.

Thanks, much appreciated. It was kinda hard to judge the scale with the models floating around in empty space. And compared to some of their reallife counterparts I agree they're still on the small side 

[noahclem]

Nice progress again   

On the subject of scale again: the cows in the second to last picture are the same size as the cars    Something to keep in mind when choosing cows and cars for the eventual lots anyway 

[mrbisonm]

Nice progress again   

On the subject of scale again: the cows in the second to last picture are the same size as the cars    Something to keep in mind when choosing cows and cars for the eventual lots anyway 

That is another thing, started by Maxis. There are something like 6 or 7 different scales in this game and I guess, we have no other choice to adapt to it. Sims are taller than cars. Personnally I think these cows are good looking and sized, there's another set out there, which are bigger.
I hope that Frank will make sure not to park a car beside a cow......wait a minute.....why would anyone do this anyways?.

Fred

[mike3775]

mrbisonm, with the RL pics, I take back what I said, and agree with others they may be to small not to large.

I live on the outskirts of my town, where farming is still done, but its field farming, not animals, so seeing those tanks around here is a no go. 

[mrbisonm]

mrbisonm, with the RL pics, I take back what I said, and agree with others they may be to small not to large.

I live on the outskirts of my town, where farming is still done, but its field farming, not animals, so seeing those tanks around here is a no go.

No, I can understand you, because some regions do not have that kind of farming, as you mentioned , and therefore you simply cannot know if you're not into farming and have seen or heard about it, even if it is in your neighborhood that you don't visit too often.
Example: I was building a loghome in Colorado this spring, been there 4 times and never really saw the farm they had, although it was in their backyard and some 1000 acres big. I didn't pay attention to the aspentrees that were growing there until I saw that they were planted in a certain line, all of them. It was a trembling Aspen plantation....what? Yes, Aspen (the tree) plantation. I was wondering what the heck is this all about, why would anyone plant Aspentrees which have no real quality wood, no real value and is even poorly rated for newspaper paper....Hm, the owner told me that the wood is used within 10 to 14 years of age for palettes and horse stalls. The only wood that horses do not nibble on and destroy with time is Aspenwood, because of its bitter taste. Ha! I didn't know that palettes are made of Aspen, nor that they use it for horse stalls. Another kind of farming.
I travel a lot, worldwide, about every two weeks or so, especially when I supervise the construction of one of th plans that I make. And being somewhat interested and implicated in farming, because of my own farm, I stop here and there to look at other nations art of farming. Maybe it's the curiosity that pulls me there or maybe I want to learn about it to improve my own farm. I have seen some interesting and totally different farms in Japan, New Zealand, Holland, Germany and even in South America. This gave me the idea to make these two Packs, the MFP1, which I am creating now and which FrankU will use to make his farmsets and especially the MFP2, that we both will be going into after the current set and which cover all kinds of farming.
Farming is so versatile that we could make a whole game about this without ever getting boring. The MFP1 will cover only a small part of farming, the animal and grain productions, but there are many more which will be found in the MFP2.

This thread sounds almost like an education about farming.....lol.
Ok, back to gmax if I want to show some more models tomorrow.

Fred

[FrankU]

Hi Fred and all others who care about this thread,

Yes it is a nice thread about Real Life farming and SC game bats and lots. Isn't that a nice combination? I like it very much. Next weekend probably I will have time to tell some more about the farm houses in my area that were the inspiration to my farms set.

But now to the comments on the manure silos. It was a very good thing that you showed us RL images of farms, Fred. Now we know what we are talking about. In my opinion though they support my remark that the diameter of your models are OK, but not the heigth. What I see is that these enormous silos are quite flat and usually not higher than the barns they belong to. So I'd suggest that you make the silo's less high.
In fact the discussion is not wether the scale is perfect, but more about wether the scale feels perfect.

The scale you used for this silo feels perfect to me:



So silos with this heigth and maybe a larger diameter will fit perfectly to your barns.
I am happy you are going to include this in the set. It's a real beauty.

And please let's not comment too much about the scales of the props. Fred did a very tedious job on choosing the sizes of his models and I think this is the best he could do. While lotting I am also fighting with this topic like all lotters will know.
I think the only scale problem we need to address here is the scale of props/models in relation to the already published props/models.

Fred, please continue!
I am sorry that I won't have time to work on the lots these days. Also my other thread is low at the moment.

Frank

[mrbisonm]

The first liquid manure tanks have been modified as asked to a more acceptable height, although some of those tanks have a height of 16 to 20 feet irl. I made a new model (only one) that still has that height. All others have been cut down by 40 % approx.
I need an opinion on those please.

Now I will continue with those tanks, other models and other sizes (diameter). Should be back by this weekend and hopefully I have finished this series, so I can go on with the rest. (hay, silos, machinery, sheds, etc)

Fred

[vortext]

This height seems more fitting yes. And strangly the tank now looks larger 

Looking forward to the rest 

[noahclem]

The new tank looks great    The scale definitely feels right--and I suspect is right. I certainly didn't mean to offend commenting on the scale of things previously--if for some reason I ever had anything negative to say about your guys' great work I'd prefer to just keep my mouth shut. But I don't. The combination of real life farming and SC4 bats is something really great, certainly a fun process to watch, and something I'm excited to utilize down the road.

Always a pleasure to visit here 

[evarburg]

Fred tells me I should ask here : I am using his neat Nexis Farm Addons, but there is no TE piece for the paths. Would it be possible to whip one up ?

[.... drat, can't find the link on the STEX ; are they still there ?]

[mrbisonm]

Fred tells me I should ask here : I am using his neat Nexis Farm Addons, but there is no TE piece for the paths. Would it be possible to whip one up ?

[.... drat, can't find the link on the STEX ; are they still there ?]

Now wait-a-minute.........I thought that you wanted one of the new farmsets that we have in discussion here TE'd? That is why I told you to post your request here, so FranK can see it, but now.........wait.....
You're using one of my farm add-ons you said.....strange, I don't remember to have made one. Could you please find the exact name of that lot, so I know which one you're talking about. I will TE it for you then, no problem.

Fred

[FrankU]

Hi Fred and Evarburg,

I don't know if I ever did TE a farm lot.... But I think I know how to do it. Please explain your the question.

I like to comment on the new silo though: it does feel better, it does even feel right. It could be that the other one was realistic and correct in scale, but I think it is more important that a prop feels correct. And I am certain the last one does! The textures of the wall and of the manure are very different, but great too!

Please continue, Fred!

[jmyers2043]

I don't know if I ever did TE a farm lot.... But I think I know how to do it. Please explain your the question.

SimGoober used to have (or still has) some farms that are TE. The stage 1 bean farm IIRC. I accidentally drew a diagonal road through the TE tile and crashed the game back to my desktop. So I relotted them (about a half dozen). My two cents.

- Jim

[mrbisonm]

SimGoober used to have (or still has) some farms that are TE. The stage 1 bean farm IIRC. I accidentally drew a diagonal road through the TE tile and crashed the game back to my desktop. So I relotted them (about a half dozen). My two cents.
- Jim

Thanks for your "two cents", much appreciated, Jim, and surely considered.

I like to comment on the new silo though: it does feel better, it does even feel right. It could be that the other one was realistic and correct in scale, but I think it is more important that a prop feels correct. And I am certain the last one does! The textures of the wall and of the manure are very different, but great too!

Please continue, Fred!

No problem Frank, I made 4 models of this tank (size), but I kept 1 with the original height of 18 feet. You're right, these higher tanks exist, I could even prove it taking a picture of my neighbor's tank, which is 42Ft x 18Ft. But as what is more "usual" in most countries are those 8 to 12 ft in height.
I also created 2 different models of the same diameter and size, but more than 75 % dug in, with a fence surrounding it. (see picture below)

I will have a "good" update this weekend and probably some files for you to test again.

Fred

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/facts/10-051f1.jpg


http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/engineer/facts/10-051f3.jpg

[FrankU]

I don't know if I ever did TE a farm lot.... But I think I know how to do it. Please explain your the question.

SimGoober used to have (or still has) some farms that are TE. The stage 1 bean farm IIRC. I accidentally drew a diagonal road through the TE tile and crashed the game back to my desktop. So I relotted them (about a half dozen). My two cents.

- Jim

Yes, indeed. You are right. TE'ing also seems to have negative effects on trip times and congetions etc.... I don't really know about these things, but I did read here and there.
So TE'ing just for the visual effect I'd better noit do. Maybe I take a look into the BlaM overpass props and use them.

[mike3775]

Man them tanks are looking good.

Both of you are doing a great job