The Prestine Landscape (Terrain Works)

[marsh]

I actually like that rock texture. One thing you could do is make it appear to have more depth. It looks rather flat. But the color is nice.

,marsh

[JoeST]

This is some amazing work you've been doing Lowkee

I dont know anything about terrain/weather/tree/etc mods so yeah, but you say most of the current mods change one little bit at a time? So would it not be better to have a program which wraps the controls, like the NAM editor utility?

I suggest this because I seem to remember that you can only have one controller at a time, or else something bad happens? So why not wrap the controller's changeable state in a program which has rules and stuff so end-users can configure to their hearts content without breaking stuff immeasurably? And if this program had some sort of modular structure, things like the jagged edges mod, and others that have to supply one file for each different controller (etc?) would just have to supply one file, which would get imported and configured to run perfectly. It could also have support to detect importing 'clashes', aka if you tried importing something that overwrote the jagged-edges, it would alert you.

Just a suggestion, especially with all the extra understanding you people are bringing to the lesser known controllers/exemplars/etc. . I myself couldn't do such a tool, but maybe contacting Stefan79 who created the DAMN wizard, or the guys behind SC4Tools if you dont know how to program sufficiently.

Thank you for dedicating your time to researching and developing such high quality modifications

Joe

[Lowkee33]

~Check out that Moderator tag.    All of your post are belong to us~

Thanks for the comments.  Although the textures I am making are very seamless with each other, the quality of them is less than the ones already out there.  No real update in that department.

I think a program would have to display a preview of what the mod would be doing.  If you already know what you want to change, Reader does a good job.  Most of the time goes into opening SC4 and checking what has been changed.  As far as Terrain Mod Add-Ons, there are not many of them.  The best solution I can think of is including them as options in the installer.  DobDriver also gives good support for his mod, and will be updating as needed.

It could also have support to detect importing 'clashes', aka if you tried importing something that overwrote the jagged-edges, it would alert you.

This is a good idea, but it doesn't have to be limited to terrain.  A program that looked for identical TGIs would be rather helpful.

[JoeST]

Yeah but an installer is kind of infeasible in stopping you from installing multiple terrain mods (which I expect is a cause of many a 'noob' problem) and (I dont know much about the installer process but) I guess it's none trivial to do conflict checking or any of the other features I mentioned in the installer. And yes, a graphical preview would be good.

Yep, broarder scope conflict checking (than just controllers and or cleanitol/datpacker) would be cool. I might try something after all....no promises though

Joe

[Lowkee33]

You might want to talk to Cogeo about a program like that.  I imagine it would take a program a fair amount of time to sort out all of the TGIs in some people's plugins.

This terrain mod installs to plugins\zzz_terrain mod.  It is Ennedi's opinion, and I agree, that all terrain related mods should go in this folder (with no subfolders.  Once I get some feedback from scrutineers I have some work to do).  People who don't know too much about the contents of their plugin folder should be able to both find my mod, and have it load last.

My programing skills are zero (except on a TI-83 calculator, my best creation being a game of MasterMind) so the best I can do is make things as simple as I can.

[JoeST]

ahh yes, so all 4 parts go in `plugins\zzz_terrain_mod` along with any other changesets? and so if some one has another terrain-like mod in any other folder, it doesnt affect anything?

Yeah Cogeo might be able to whip something up in a few minutes *goes and finds him*

Sorry for taking over your thread >.>

Joe

[Lowkee33]

Sorry for taking over your thread >.>

No worries.  (As long as my threads are getting hits  )

and so if some one has another terrain-like mod in any other folder, it doesnt affect anything?

Correct.

If you download Girafe's seasonal trees you will see that they install a terrain related mod to this folder as well.  In effect, making seasonal flora changes the way a god-mode brush works, as the file that makes seasonal possible also defines the Max height a tree gets planted.  Cycledog and Heblem's mods are over written, but a patch for this should be on the LEX soon.

Even though the file would be a "tree related" file, the fact that snow lines appear at different altitudes for different terrain mods means that the max height needs to be defined in the terrain mod  .



Looks like there is going to be more traffic here, better make an update 

I will say that the terrain mod I am working on changes during the sim year.  So once again, I confront snow.  The way I see it, there are 4 ways to make snow work.

1)Do what I did with Cycledog's textures.  I have to say, although this was a relatively realistic snow "migration", timing models for it is hard.

2)Have a "snow" terrain mod, and a "non-snow" terrain mod.  The SimPeg snow mod is rather well done, as the mod encompasses all things (base/overlay textures, trees).  I think this is a pretty good solution, but making it compatible with everything besides items on the PLEX would be impossible.

3)Edit the Weather exemplar to have a very-very moist Jan, and then get very dry as fast as possible.  January's moisture columns would be all snow in the INI, and then non-snow everywhere else.  I tested this with the snow textures I have now and the weather pattern I have now.  It looks like an okay solution, but I can make the transition faster.  The other problem is that for some months the edge of city tiles will not match up.  (don't mind the shadow on the borders.  Next time I will use an otherwise empty plugin folder).

Jan:


April:


(Too much snow in April.  The Terrain properties I have make the INI end at about half way up this region)

4) Seasonal snow as Mayor Mode Flora.  This also has pretty good results.  It solves the seasonal shadow issue, but this snow model I made defiantly uses up the god-mode flora brush:

[Jayster]

Your banner was what dragged me here  Looks great though! Keep up the great work.

Jayster

[Evillions8]

The grass has too much contrast, and the snow needs work.  Don't get me wrong, you have to be talented to make terrain mods, so really I can't say this and that about your works.  But what I can say is nice work!

[Lowkee33]

Thanks for the comments.  I rethought the whole snow thing, and reconfigured my INI/Weather/Large Texture (now 5120x8190).  I learned a few things in GIMP, and am pretty confident in going from Texture maker to something that looks great in-game.

@Evillions8:  Thanks for the critique.  These textures are in pretty much the first stage of editing, so yeah.  The snow in the region shot was using the same textures as the high altitudes.  At this point, a final product will have 15 textures just for Dec/January/Feb.  The snow in the close up is not a texture at all but a model, and also my first draft there.

I don't think contrast is the right word, although I can't really define it either.  Perhaps you mean saturation?

I hope to have an actual update soon.  I ran a cloud generator today and it said that it would take 40 hours to complete.  I might have to set up a laptop to make textures over the weekend.  In the meantime I will think of other ways to make a detailed grass texture on such a large image.

[Lowkee33]

Hi all,

In hopes to get more feedback in the terrain mod I made with Cycledog's textures, I am offering it to all of you.  If you are interested in that mod, send me a PM and I will get you sorted out.



My approach to this terrain mod starts in the weather exemplar.  It has been changed significantly from the one I used for Cycledog's textures.  My hope was that I could make January very wet, and then quickly get dry.  My goal is for January to use the last 3 columns of the INI, and by April it doesn't use them anymore.  The point is to use those last three columns as snow textures.  I thought I had it figured out, but apparently I did not.  I will have to edit it some more, but I can move on to working on the textures.

I also rethought the INI in general.  If the last three columns are snow, then the first 13 columns are non-snow.  I changed the shape of my very large texture so that it is 5120x8192 pixels large.  It is 65MB, so there I can't upload it, however, I can provide a screen shot:


This image is broken into 160 512x512 textures.  The hope is to edit each one of these textures individually, but not loose the coherence that using one huge image at first provides.  Of course, after splitting the image up, the 512x512 is not tillable.  This is where Texture Maker really gets to work.  Each image can be batch processed and make seamless at a relatively low loss of detail.  After being made seamless, some more work is done on each texture.  A grass texture from the large image can be edited into this:


Texture Maker can also do things such as this... Which make the outlook for base textures pretty good:


Let's move on to in-game:

First, a region shot in May.  Like I said, the weather exemplar is a little messed up, so I don't want to display a GIF for all months:


The mismatch between borders is pretty small, but I may work on that.  Also, the colors are off from what I want.  I wanted snow to have some color, but now that it does, I can't really changed the saturation of my large image (it is also getting pretty slow to work on, it is 5 layers and about 250mb large).

I mostly worked on the grass textures, but got exited as I tried to make flowers.  Texture Maker can do batch processing based off of a script, and I guess I shouldn't have chosen the flower color to be random:


The grass in this September is the best.  Flora works very well, in particular Chris Adam's:


A display of my seasonal snow.  It is 4 meters about the ground, so non-seasonal items are covered up.  At one point it matched the snow texture, but I constantly change textures around:


Of course, my batting is so limited...  Had to take out Girafe's trees as I didn't plant the seasonal ones.

Summer is slightly browner, and thankfully I did not put flowers there:


A general view of grass to snow.  Haven't really worked on this...


Nothing like black flowers 

I also made one grass texture that I made into zooms:

Zoom 4+5


Zoom 3


Zoom 2


Zoom 1


Zoom 0


I may have labeled the zooms wrong... This grass is experimental:  Is the color variation enjoyed?  Another experiment was a straight Perlin Amp, Bump:  In-game:


Pretty much everything about that can be changed.

The main issue with me having to redo the weather exemplar is that it will change what textures display on flat land.  I feel that the flat land textures have to be totally repeatable.  There is more flexibility with slopes because moisture is so variant on them, so a texture hardly has to repeat itself very much.  Slopes can also be given more depth, because there wont be much development on them 

Opinions are very welcome.  I haven't touched snow or the brownish area yet, these will change dramatically.  The main thing is the grass.  I think what I have is pretty good, but perhaps too homogeneous.  Still just doing general things, next to try to make those flowers smaller...

[Lowkee33]

Sorry to double post so quick...

The problem with learning a new program is that you constantly have to rethink your approach.  I have started using some serious scripts in Texture Maker (although maybe they make bad textures ), and so I was going to aproach non-flat terrain.  This meant that I had to get the weather exemplar sorted once and for all.

Maybe I lost my touch, but it seems like the the thing that makes April a little too wet is the thing that would make January a little too dry.  Basically all of my snow textures use the 0xF# range.  The textures that touch it are the 0xE# range.  By increasing the spread and the texture blend strength of the E range (and then increasing the strength of the <E respectively) I have removed all snow from April.

The big question is this:  Can you handle a March and November that look something like this? 


I can.  If the consensus is that this is not pleasing, then I will forgo the entire moisture simulation thing and just do one season, with perhaps a snow mod to pick like the mod on the PLEX.  Speak now or forever hold your peace.

[jmyers2043]

Let me see if I understand. The snow in the above picture depicts where moisture is. The light brown dirt is where the moisture is not.

Consequenty, snow in the low lying areas will then be last to dissapear at the first of spring and higher elevations will loose its snow cover first?

[Lowkee33]

Let me see if I understand. The snow in the above picture depicts where moisture is. The light brown dirt is where the moisture is not.

Correct.

Consequenty, snow in the low lying areas will then be last to dissapear at the first of spring and higher elevations will loose its snow cover first?

Not quite.  Elevation has no effect as far as this picture is concerned.  For this mod, I wanted snow to appear for all elevations in January, and then quickly go away.  This means that February looks a little strange and March pretty ugly.  The upside is that those who use timed winter props/flora don't have to quit the game and change terrain mods to have winter make sense.

I tried to make lower elevations get a dusting of snow in January when I worked with Cycledog's textures.  I posted a problem Here, with This Picture as an example.  There is more moisture on the left side of a city, so there is no way to get the borders to match.  This happens with all terrain mods/tree controllers, but with snow, it is very apparent.  I think I did a pretty good job of hiding it in that mod, but since every elevation had snow for a different amount of time, it made timing props very tedious.

[Lowkee33]

Well, I've got the BatchPNGtoFSH tool running with a patented set of textures I like to call "lazy zooms".  Going from zoom 4 to zoom 0 seems pretty straight forward.  I stretch the zoom 4 to a 1024x1024, homogenize it, and then collapse it back to 512x512.  Lazy zooms are me just placing the zoom 4 on the zoom 0 at various opacities. For basic zoom templates I might just stretch them out less at first.  Anyway... 100 textures to go...

I have this notion of a tree line.  I figure woody terrain is dark brown/green, and then moves into lighter brown/green for above the tree line.  My first attempt has clearly failed.


I am realizing I don't know much about terrain  .  Is there ever grassy plateaus above the tree lines?  I will certainly have to add a more rocky feel, but that is besides the point.  There is space for about 7 textures before it goes from snow to woods, so there is plenty of room for changing the textures.  At this point, I am a little passed starting all over.

[marsh]

I would not say it was a complete failure.

Generally there is more space in between the tree line and the scree-spope line though. The terrain where you envision trees gives me the impression of the floor of a conifer forest. Not much sun gets there and it's cold. So there is mostly dirt and decaying pine needles.

(I live in Colorado and have hiked many mountains. So I get to see close-up how the terrain is as well as a large variation of it, from semi-desert, to pine forests, to the treeline, and have seen it alot.  )

,marsh

[Lowkee33]

Thanks Marsh.  I keep advancing towards completion, the only problem is that I am modding this game as much as I can, so it's pretty spread out.

Still not sure about the moisture simulation.  I not have it turned off at the moisture a city renders at, so all tree controllers will work the same as before.  One problem is that many moisture slots are not used, as moisture is basically slope, and at a certain point all textures become cliffs.  I have been thinking of making cliffs not exist, and putting them right into the terrain mod, but not sure if that works well.  I also wonder about increasing the moisture effect on hills, in order to get more moisture slots.

Anyway, the Maxis Default settings have two textures existing on flat land, so that can be interesting.  Today I had some fun, making the one that appears less be a marshy area.  Again, sometimes I am like the CIA, just figuring out what is possible and then destroying it...


The water doesn't look as good when it is on a slope 

The grass texture I like.  I feel most grass will have that "hairy" pattern to it.  Snow also looks pretty good with hair, although or that I give it no direction.

  

[ShultzCity]

Really loving reading about your experiments Lowkee! Keep it up I for one really enjoy reading your posts 

[marsh]

It's starting to come along great. I love those marshes.

The snow is nice too. Although it looks more as if it has been "used". Like walked across or partially melted. I would make a flatter snow texture as well? For other areas. Maybe as it goes from winter to spring it uses that texture.

Just giving some input.

,marsh

[Lowkee33]

You know Marsh, I kind of liked it when you had -1 karma  .

Thanks for the input about the snow.  Right now I am not making this seasonal, the texture quality is more important.  I have the INI so that every texture on the top row is different, and so that the 8th column has 32 different textures.  The 8th column is flat land when the moisture simulation is turned off (by changing the MoistureVariation and MoistureVariationFactor to "0").  That snow texture was set up as being in the 1st row 8th column, but it could easily be dropped down a column.  Will work on an un-touched snow that is not just white.

I figured out the TextureSpreadCurves in the Terrain Texture Exemplars.  They are a series of ordered pairs, the first digit being the distance from the center of the texture, and the second digit being the strength of the texture.

Maxis has these properties set to "0,1,32,1,64,0".  This is hardly a "curve".  The exemplars in the CycleDogg mods are better, as they spread less as one zooms in.  However, they still only use three non-curved pairs.

Attatched is a file that sets all of CP's textures to have spread curves from:

0, 1, 8, .8, 16, .6, 24, .4, 32, .2, 40, 0   for the zoom 0, to
0, 1, 4, .9, 8, .7, 12, .5, 16, .3, 20, 0 for the zoom 4

Before:


After:


The change is most apparent in Zoom 4, and rather subtle in zoom 0.