DC's Transit BATs

DCMetro2834 · August 03, 2010, 05:41:55 PM

Hello SC4Devotion!

I have a BAT thread open on Simtropolis, and figured I should open one here at SC4Devotion, so I could get some more feedback from another experience community!

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My Projects

Completed:

GLR to Subway Transfer Station ---- (February 5, 2010)
GLR/Subway Transit Hub ---- (May 8th, 2010)
GLR to Bus Transfer Station ---- (September 11th, 2010)
Container Yard Freight Station (Fixed) ---- (November 26, 2010)
STR Freight Station ---- (February 5th, 2011)

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I am working on Greenbelt Metrorail Station right now. It's part of the DC Metro and is located right outside of Washington, DC.

I have some real life shots for you so you can get the basic idea first...

And now I have a preview render of the station in its current state, still a good bit of work to do on the platform before I move props. Because the image is larger than 800x600 by a bit, here's a linkie.

Edit: This station will be a split GLR station, the platform will be between the split GLR track.

http://a.imageshack.us/img831/5930/greenbeltaug2.jpg

Thanks,
DC

meister1235 · August 03, 2010, 06:11:54 PM

hi,
i'm meister1235 and i'm a Modder and Batter in the Team.
you can find my Batting an Modding thread at Simtropolis linky

RickD · August 06, 2010, 01:05:44 AM

Sounds very promising. I am looking forward to some great transit BATs from you.

DCMetro2834 · August 06, 2010, 04:09:42 PM

Replies

@ Meister1235: Thanks for stopping by and introducing yourself!

@ RickD: Thanks, I hope I can make many BATs here!

An update for everyone....

I am basically done with the basic model (I might make the wing texture a bit darker).

Sorry, the pic is a bit big....
http://a.imageshack.us/img228/4500/greenbeltaug6.png

But other than that it's time for props!

On the subject of props, I am going to make them myself, and they are going to be authentic. My first one is a pole with the station name and line color on it, seen at every Metro station.

Here is an example of a sign like I am making now. The only difference is on the actual station platform, the sign says just "Greenbelt", dropping the "Station".

I have made my own textures, and tried various fonts on the sign pole. I was debating whether to have the type smaller (which is more authentic), or make the type readable in game. I have a couple pics for you showing my options.

I'd like to add that all these choices were rendered in "HD" in BAT.

Here is the one with the large, semi-readable font.
Click here (Large pic)

And the two I have circled are the best examples of the smaller font, my other option.
Click here (Large pic)

Any comments/opinions/critique is welcome!

-DC

DCMetro2834 · September 06, 2010, 05:47:15 PM

Well, that station came to somewhat of a halt when I got some glitchy LODs...let me show you the deal....

I created my own LOD, here (and copied it twice to get three total copies before I rendered):

Now, the LOD is underground, but it also covering the whole station....

When I went to add props in the LE, they glitched up, like this:

When you rotate the viewport in LE, the props are clearly "floating" in mid air....because to get it to look like it was above the platform in the default view, I had to raise it.

I then tried making the LOD a little more than .2 meters above the ground, because I heard that it had to be this high. The LOD was the same at the first, except the bottom was halfway up the platform (even though it still covered it). Sorry, I don't have a pic of this LOD setup.

This time, when I rendered, it looked fine, I was able to place props in LE with no problem. But when I opened up SC4 and plopped it, I got a major glitch in the platform:

The platform should be the texture that you see under the "cover" of the station (the correct texture shade is also seen in the Lot Editor pic above); as you see it is much darker below than it should be.

I've tried just about everything I can think of, anything you see that I'm doing wrong?

DC

jmyers2043 · September 06, 2010, 08:32:39 PM

Hello DCMetro

I'm not exactly sure I have a clear understanding ... but I'll try to answer.

With respect to glitchy renders. Please read a response I made in this thread about glitches. Although, I don't expect this will solve the problem you've stated. It's good information nevertheless.

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11652.msg343195#msg343195

i think the answer you're looking for is ... I did a tutorial in my bat thread about foundations. Basically, what I say about complex LODs for foundations also applies to other complex LODs too. I think I'd break your rail station apart into three main sections. The body in the middle along with the pitched roof, the overhangs, and the platform. Creating LOD3's for each element. Then attach them using the edit mesh function. This will give you an extremely tight LOD.

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=536.msg294366#msg294366

Also - the building looks a smidgen squat. An in game SIM is 4 meters high. The overhangs are barley 3.5 meters high. I think you need to make the station a bit taller. A good rule of thumb is to make commercial building floors 5 meters high. Usually the ground floors are 7 to 10 meters depending on the style of building e.g. European buildings can have shorter ground floors. The other thing is to model commercial and industrials with the idea that you'll be placing some Sim People on the lot near doorways. In this case, on the platform waiting for the next metro-rail. Keeping that in mind will help you with vertical scale.

Good Luck.

-Jim

DCMetro2834 · September 07, 2010, 07:37:58 PM

Thanks so much for the advice, it sounds good, and I will definitely try it next render!

But for now, I have a quick question; can you add a texture to an editable mesh?

DC

jmyers2043 · September 08, 2010, 06:13:35 AM

Quote from: DCMetro2834 on September 07, 2010, 07:37:58 PM
Thanks so much for the advice, it sounds good, and I will definitely try it next render!

But for now, I have a quick question; can you add a texture to an editable mesh?

DC

Yes but it sometimes requires a bit work getting the UV mapping the way one wants it. Depends on how complex the mesh is I think. But I'm curious - everything I see for your building can be done using splines which are easier to texture. I only convert to editable polys when I need more complex shapes.

DCMetro2834 · September 08, 2010, 01:46:20 PM

Quote from: jmyers2043 on September 08, 2010, 06:13:35 AM
Yes but it sometimes requires a bit work getting the UV mapping the way one wants it. Depends on how complex the mesh is I think. But I'm curious - everything I see for your building can be done using splines which are easier to texture. I only convert to editable polys when I need more complex shapes.

Thanks for the reply!

Well, with the pictures you have seen, there is need for a mesh. I am now using a mesh because I made the platform curve to fit in better with the track. Let me show you my problem with this texture being added to an editable mesh.....

I made the mesh (platform) in a different file and merged it with the rest of my station....
http://a.imageshack.us/img101/6685/pretexture.jpg
After I merged all of them, it looked like this in perspective view.....

Then I added my texture in using the Material Editor and Navigator (the way I always do it and it's worked before). When I added my texture....I got this:
http://a.imageshack.us/img237/7487/posttexture.jpg

Then, I went to do a preview render, just to check how it looked. This is what I saw; the texture I wanted was there (not aligned right, but I didn't take the time to) except for the corner of the platform, which is pointed out by the arrow in the picture below.
http://a.imageshack.us/img237/7487/posttexture.jpg

Does anyone know what could be causing this?

Thanks,

DC

jmyers2043 · September 08, 2010, 02:23:44 PM

Oh ya! I've seen that before many a time and I now see the conversation unfolding. You first asked if you could texture a mesh. I said yes but didn't say anything about mapping. Didn't think about it at the time. Hence your second question.

Every mesh object in your bat has to have a UV map applied. No map? No texture. Those are the rules

DCMetro2834 · September 08, 2010, 03:06:32 PM

Quote from: jmyers2043 on September 08, 2010, 02:23:44 PM
Oh ya! I've seen that before many a time and I now see the conversation unfolding. You first asked if you could texture a mesh. I said yes but didn't say anything about mapping. Didn't think about it at the time. Hence your second question.

Every mesh object in your bat has to have a UV map applied. No map? No texture. Those are the rules

Ah, I see, thanks, success!! Guess I should have been more clear the first time...

Thanks,
DC

DCMetro2834 · September 09, 2010, 04:39:29 PM

Sorry for the double post...but I thought I should finally show you guys an updated pic of the BAT.

The width of the pic is 841 pixels....so I'll link of to it....
http://a.imageshack.us/img148/1558/greenbeltsept9.jpg

Feel free to post any comments, concerns, or critique!

DC

Girafe · September 09, 2010, 05:48:44 PM

what a good idea to continue the development of tram station.
I have some personnal recommandations :

- the roof texture is not excellent it's seems to be not scaled

- did you try if all trams go under the station (I think some models are too high with pantograph)

- absence of details (I don't know exactly the way to mod it so if you can put easily details)
a line to prevent accident with colors or small nails (after there are some props you can put but it's not on the BAT so I wait ...)

- the lights are repetitive and a little bit strange (but it's small details)

anyway good job from this team and wait surely for more stations

Nexis4Jersey · September 09, 2010, 05:54:13 PM

nice , are you going to raise the platform just a tad? Do you take requests for Rail vehicles ? The reason i'm asking is i can't recreate a part of my state without realistic matching trains and i can't find anyone to do them....

DCMetro2834 · September 09, 2010, 07:37:00 PM

@ Girafe: I am always tweaking that....I will work on it.

The trains do go under I think....but above jmeyers said that there wasn't enough room, so I raised it.

I know someone who can mod it, so I am ok there....but what do you mean a line to prevent accident?

In what ways are the light strange, and do you have any ways for how I could improve them? I am a little bit of a newbie when it comes to night lights.

Thanks for all your comments!

@ Nexis4Jersey: I wasn't planning on raising the platform....but it will sit on a GLR texture.

And, I don't really take requests for automata modding..although I do mod a little. What trains in specific were you looking for?

Thanks for your comment as well.

DC

Une_ame · September 10, 2010, 04:28:53 AM

DC metro already exist.

DCMetro2834 · September 10, 2010, 01:21:10 PM

Quote from: Une_ame on September 10, 2010, 04:28:53 AM
DC metro already exist.

Oh yes, they do! I got confused when I saw nexis4jersey's username.

I have used this automata many times, it is here: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=3346

DC

jmyers2043 · September 10, 2010, 07:50:07 PM

Hey DC

I don't know how open you are to some texture critique. Also don't know what sort of paint program you have. Don't know how long you've been batting. But I'll go ahead and give you a texturing tip at the risk that I may be telling you something that you already know.

For every hour I spend in gmax. I often spend two in a paint program. Many experienced people use Photoshop. It's has a bit of a price tag. I use Paint Shop Pro. There are some free paint programs. Gimp I understand is free and I think that's what Tag_One uses. You can do some simple things with Gimp. Such as some layering. Layering is probably the most useful tool for altering or enhancing textures. I never use a texture as is. I always put gradients on the simplest of textures. It is seldom that you'll find a texture that works 'perfect' on a bat. . .

Someone above made a comment about the roof texture. So I started to think about what I'd do to add some interest.

I'm thinking that there would be some cuts in the cement to allow for expansion and contraction during the summer and winter months. So I'll start there.

I collect pictures and I've got a couple hopeful ones here. I'll use the narrow one along the front face of the overhang. I'll use the one with cuts on the roof.

My plan is to have a smuge along the roof. Try to make it look like acid rain has caused some streaks. To accomplish that I'll copy my narrow picture and overlay it on top of my larger image. Not very convincing if you ask me.

The next step? I'll give the narrow texture a stretch and move it so the dark smudge will run along the top edge of the roof. I don't know if you can read the layers tool bar along the right hand side of the picture. I chose the darken function and set the opacity to 80% and got the below affect.

Time to put the texture on my my overhang and do a test render. Maybe you like it. Maybe not. Maybe your goal is smooth clean cement. Even at that I think I'd try to do something to make it interesting/pop/look less flat. It's not really an exact science. More like "I know what I like and will keep at it until I'm happy" After looking I'll decide to keep it - Maybe find some cement with some green mold adding color to the overlay to make it less gray - Or find different streaks. Hope you get the idea.

Good Luck.

- Jim

DCMetro2834 · September 10, 2010, 09:31:48 PM

@ jmeyers2043: Wow...I knew about editing textures in Paint programs...but never like you did....

I have GIMP right now...and will be installing a family copy of Photoshop (if you can install it on more than one cpu, which I think you can).

Your photoshopping was darn pretty good...that should help me....

I tend to get most of my textures from CG textures, although I saw a list in the forums here; I should try some of those other sites. I recall that none of the textures I had were as good as your starting texture...

Thanks a lot for the advice...the roof texture does look out of place. Also, smooth clean-like cement in used in DC Metro stations, so that is essentially my goal as well.

Finally, I really appreciate you and all the other members putting so much time into this thread, it's really helped me.

DC

SimFox · September 11, 2010, 04:11:50 AM

Quote from: DCMetro2834 on September 06, 2010, 05:47:15 PM
Well, that station came to somewhat of a halt when I got some glitchy LODs...let me show you the deal....

I created my own LOD, here (and copied it twice to get three total copies before I rendered):

Now, the LOD is underground, but it also covering the whole station....

When I went to add props in the LE, they glitched up, like this:

When you rotate the viewport in LE, the props are clearly "floating" in mid air....because to get it to look like it was above the platform in the default view, I had to raise it.

I then tried making the LOD a little more than .2 meters above the ground, because I heard that it had to be this high. The LOD was the same at the first, except the bottom was halfway up the platform (even though it still covered it). Sorry, I don't have a pic of this LOD setup.

This time, when I rendered, it looked fine, I was able to place props in LE with no problem. But when I opened up SC4 and plopped it, I got a major glitch in the platform:

The platform should be the texture that you see under the "cover" of the station (the correct texture shade is also seen in the Lot Editor pic above); as you see it is much darker below than it should be.

I've tried just about everything I can think of, anything you see that I'm doing wrong?

DC

Could you tell me what exactly are you trying to accomplish there?

What you have now is a result of your LODs top plane being too low. For game everything that is at 0.2m and lower is considered to be at ground level (or below). So your platform is covered with it's own shadow. You can make a little experiment to prove it - turn shadows off and you'll see that the "glitch" will be gone.