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Author Topic: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox  (Read 16989 times)

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Offline Kenworth

BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« on: July 08, 2010, 05:15:49 AM »
Thanks for the answer.

I anstalled the Bat4Max from Simfox yesterday, but it's the same problem :(

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BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« on: July 08, 2010, 05:15:49 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline callagrafx

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 05:23:59 AM »
Then it's something to do with your setup or the scene.... double check the LODs are OK, there are no extraneous Xrefs in the file and the lightrig is set properly.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 05:23:59 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Kenworth

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 06:21:35 AM »
The LODs are ok, but if I press the button "reset lights & camera", than I get that:



Is it the problem?


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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 06:21:35 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline callagrafx

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 06:36:46 AM »
Check and delete any XREF scenes.  It should be under the File menu (top left).  It looks like an old lightrig is in there as well.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 06:36:46 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Kenworth

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 06:44:58 AM »
Hmmm, now it run.
I installed again and I deactivated "night windows".  ()what() :)

Thanks for the help, callagrafx!

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 06:44:58 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline SimFox

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 03:00:50 PM »
your original problem was caused by wrong system units set in your max - those by default are inches (at least in English language version), but for BAT you must use meters as a system unit. It is important to understand that MAX have 2 sets of units - system ones and display ones. I would advise to switch both to meters. But system absolutely have to be meters. System units are used for all internal calculations and size of all 3ds models (LODs in BAT) are set in exactly system units.

Speaking of BAT4Max 4.5 it is tailored to work with LetThereBeLight utility that sets your environmental lighting both day and night. So I would very strongly advise you to use it (you don't at the time given the screenshot with lightning rig with multiple lights in it). Among other things LetThereBeLight would have solved your problem before it would appear as it among other thing automatically sets system units. There are many more improvements under the hood that make it fastest BAt4Max ever - reducing export time on same Max version by up to 30+%. It also have much more advanced FSH compression system.

As for the NightWindows - it is an old way to create lit up windows. UVW mapping used for it is incompatible with system used in 3ds Max 8 and newer. At start up Scripts detect your Max version and disable incompatible function removing them from interface as well.

BTW make sure you've updated rig files for GMAX BAT as well. Failure to do so may in specific cases cause misalignment issue that typically results in parts of the model missing in game view.

In the upcoming version there will be first significant re-design of the interface aimed to make the entire process much more streamlined and intuitive. On the technical side there will be new alpha generation that will guarantee pristine quality as well as improvements in render processing that will bring further improvement of quality in challenging situations. At the same time some parts (dysfunctional anyway, at least in truNite work flow) will most probably be dropped as they can cause some instabilities.

New version will once and for all solve all the issues with installation of 3ds Max into default folder eg one with empty spaces in path. Although in OS with UAC one would still have to enable write rights to the BAT folder.

After some while fully functional (press the button) solution to clear output folder of a selected model output files as well as over all cleanup of ALL output files that functions in any and all OS will be there.

That said best of luck in you new 3ds Max adventures!

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 03:00:50 PM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Diggis

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 03:57:41 PM »
While we have you here SF, could you possible do a version that doesn't require deltree?  I'm not putting that on my machine but it means i have to manually run the other scripts every time I run a render.

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 03:57:41 PM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline SimFox

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 09:52:49 AM »
it is already done.

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 09:52:49 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Diggis

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 10:19:34 AM »
it is already done.

Eh?  I downloaded your scripts on the weekend (BAT4Max V4.5) and it still asked for it?  Also, I noticed there was no readme or installation instructions in there which made setting it up difficult.

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 10:19:34 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline SimFox

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 12:16:30 PM »
Sorry, what I meant that this function is already realized, but it will be available in the new version that will be released soon...

All the instructions, very detailed and illustrated, are in first message in the support thread on Simtpropolis.
Furthermore description of the download on STEX clearly states this in a form of an active link. Link to the forum where active, continuous and reasonably knowledgeable support is provided.

So, I 'm truly puzzled how is it "very difficult".


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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 12:16:30 PM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline callagrafx

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 01:24:04 PM »
Well, if Shaun downloaded the file at home, took it to work to use on machines that have Max 2009 via a USB drive , as the work computers do not have direct internet access for security reasons, it could be a tad awkward....
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 01:24:04 PM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Diggis

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 04:43:07 AM »
Sorry, what I meant that this function is already realized, but it will be available in the new version that will be released soon...

All the instructions, very detailed and illustrated, are in first message in the support thread on Simtpropolis.
Furthermore description of the download on STEX clearly states this in a form of an active link. Link to the forum where active, continuous and reasonably knowledgeable support is provided.

So, I 'm truly puzzled how is it "very difficult".

Cos I have problems with the forums at ST.  I find them very slow to load and often prone to crashing.  And actually I downloaded at work and took them home and then had to retrace my steps to find the install instructions.

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 04:43:07 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline callagrafx

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 05:19:53 AM »
and then had to retrace my steps to find the install instructions.

Don't you just hate that... I used to leave stuff on the Tube all the time  :D
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 05:19:53 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline SimFox

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2010, 06:01:41 AM »
Hm... Never had experience slow forums at ST. STEX is often slower than turtle... dead one at that.
Actually yesterday forums here on SC4 were very slow.

Anyway I'll take this into account for the next release I'll make PDF, I guess with same instructions.

BTW what other functionality and improvements would you two like to see in BAT4Max?

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2010, 06:01:41 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline callagrafx

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2010, 06:53:31 AM »
BTW what other functionality and improvements would you two like to see in BAT4Max?

There was one facility in Chris's that was extremely useful... large preview size.  Using the camera position, I used to be able to preview a scene, both day and night, at a given size without having to switch to user view and zoom/centre in.  Very useful for checking detail on smaller buildings.  When used in night view, it set the night parameters and turned on nightlights/libraries etc.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2010, 06:53:31 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Diggis

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2010, 04:53:37 AM »
Anyway I'll take this into account for the next release I'll make PDF, I guess with same instructions.

Cool Cool.  Wasn't a huge deal and the ST forums have been better lately.

BTW what other functionality and improvements would you two like to see in BAT4Max?

A batch renderer would be quite useful, especially for those of use who do modular stuff as I can set it running and head to work.  :D  But the two things that I found especially useful in Chris's scripts was the ability automatically get the last exported LOD and to add a name to a render from GMAX without saving it.

While no idea how it worked within the scripts I think when the files were exported it exported them with the MAX file name and then when it imported it that name was added to an export box so when you exported it was prefixed to the file name, removing the need to save the GMAX file.  Caught me out the first time I used yours, old habits die hard.  :D

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2010, 04:53:37 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline MOREOPTIONS

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2010, 06:18:40 AM »
Perhaps you're new BAT4MAX would be able to operate direct from 3ds max. saving a step of re optiong things in gmax. 

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2010, 06:18:40 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline callagrafx

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2010, 10:01:04 AM »
Perhaps you're new BAT4MAX would be able to operate direct from 3ds max. saving a step of re optiong things in gmax. 

Not possible.. the mechanism for creating .sc4model files (which is the file format recognised by SC4) is handled by a proprietary DLL created for/by Maxis for use with GMAX, and this is the only way to create the file.  And don't even go there with reverse engineering the file format to write a new exporter, as that's strictly against Maxis' EULA.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2010, 10:01:04 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline Blue Lightning

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2010, 10:59:26 AM »
There's always a possibility of writing your own version... because it's really not too difficult of a process. It's the logical method of generating the s3d files, this process was not derived via decompliling the DLL. I merely came up with this from what I know about s3d files and observing how the BAT clips and splits the LOD.

1. View the LOD from the camera, decide which faces are visible (any face who's normal is perpendicular to the camera (+90 and -90) or between them (the 180 side) is invisible). Store this info for triangle mesh generation. Also remove any vertexes and faces that are hidden by other LOD geometry.
2. Split the LOD according to 128x128 texture segments on the render image (or 256x256 for HD). Notate added vertexes for next step.
3. Grab the vertex coordinates, switch the Y and Z, and invert the X and output to an array of vertexes, 1 array per segment.
4. Generate triangle mesh array. 1 array per segment
5. Generate UV mappings according to vertex location when superimposed on segment.
6. Generate raw s3d data
7. Insert the s3d into a DBPF file (.SC4MODEL in this case) via Reader or the like (the newest Reader has scripting capability, so you can have BAT4MAX or whatever generate the script and have Reader run it)
8. Repeat for the rest of the views.

I can come up with a visual stepthrough if it would make it any clearer.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 11:15:23 AM by Blue Lightning »
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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2010, 10:59:26 AM »

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox

Offline SimFox

Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2010, 11:37:11 AM »
Cal & MOREOPTIONS:
it is an interesting consideration. Yes we can't create SC4Model file. Yet we can perfectly do so with .DAT file in say iLive Reader. If that is also illegal that the whole mod thing would be illegal. As long as we have such empty DAT we can populate it with custom content. Beyond that I, to be honest don't see any technical or legal obstacles.
What is missing currently:
- functionality to create the file names - not necessarily for the DAT itself, but for the internal files. Yet we actually have it - ModelNames.ms.
- Exporting of the Sliced LODs - not impossible to accomplish. Basically the only trick there is altering coordinate system so that Y axis points up in stead of Z
- UVW mapping of the renders images onto t6hose sliced LODs. It is simple projection mapping...

It would take some writing, but there is nothing really impossible, providing we use one of the templates from iLive Reader.
We only big question is why? I mean it wouldn't really add anything, wouldn't improve anything. It would save one step that takes all but few seconds to accomplish...
It may be more beneficial for massive prop packs I guess, but still.

Cal:
Large Preview Size... Never heard of it... Now that I hear, I'm to be honest, not sold on the idea. Checking on the small details... What is the point to check on them from the view that is irrelevant to the game? I mean it is practical for true 3d staff, but not for this game. Besides, so called HD preview does exactly that gives you 2x blown up view. If your small details are to small to be seen at this zoom level question beckons are they really necessary/does it matter how do they look?
As for night preview... Still don't see point in it as such. LtbL sets all parameters. Turning on/off lights as well as night libraries is totally pointless procedure. First of all no lights or sel-illuminated materials would EVER be noticeable during day render view. So technically there is NO need to turn them off. This is one. Two is even if you want to (say for lights to save time - not sure that tis eve apply given they don't really contribute anything to illumination solutions  and are might be simply ignored by calculations) it is not too terribly difficult to accomplish this with Light Lister easy enough.
Besides it is part of old traditional mask based night view export. Process that has only positive side to it - dusk/dawn transition. Yet is of significantly inferior quality (simply because it is by definition based on 8 bit mask), slow - requires one additional export pass, and, to borrow you term, convoluted - one must do what one can't see to accomplish it - particularly with night maps - the only way to see them is to do preview -  a lot of nonsense if you ask me. Plus in the end this method interferes with TtruNite export process. Since both of it's passes are in effect day exports it prevents both lights and self-illuminated mats to show up on truNite pass. I guess I see a work-around for lights, but how to be with self-illuminated mats? Selecting them by this very property isn't all that instrumental - it is sometimes useful in day view as well as night one.

Diggis:
Batch processing on the other hand is truly worth while thing.. It truly adds to functionality, rather the simply mimicking something from that of Max. It could also be used to make truNite export one click process. I'll look into it. Not sure it would be ready for upcoming release, but I'll certainly put it on to-do list.

The other thing - inputting name in GMAX rather than saving file... Well I hardly see how it could be called useful... Convenient may be useful, not really it doesn't add any new functionality, saves absolute minimum of the actual work. In fact the only measurable saving is a space GMAX files would otherwise occupy on you HDD. Given that we are speaking purely LODs here it is vanishingly small.
Pretty much same as far as "last exported LOD" goes. A button like that simply saves clicking on File -> Import. That's it! Cause if you select to display your files in selection window by date modified... you last exported LOD file would always be on top.

May be I'm missing something? I'm not really familiar with this function...

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Re: BAT4MAX V4-SimFox
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2010, 11:37:11 AM »

 


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