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Author Topic: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)  (Read 42791 times)

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Offline jdenm8

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #260 on: January 02, 2011, 07:33:56 PM »
I like how you used the old Dick Smith logo. The chain doesn't deserve that name now.

All I could say is to change the dimensions of some of the signs so they look less squished or stretched, the Video Ezy, Crazy John's and Dick Smith's ones for example.
The stretch/squish is only small though.


"We’re making SimCity, not some dopey casual game." -Ocean Quigley

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #260 on: January 02, 2011, 07:33:56 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline killerclone

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #261 on: January 03, 2011, 12:13:43 AM »
Wow! These all look great. Love the rusty corrugated iron on some of the roofs, and just about everything else about them. I could see some people possibly having a problem with the name of that Italian joint, but since it is based on a real place, maybe they should take their complaints up with Nick Giannopoulis ;)

Looking back through this thread, loving everything in it so far. And really looking forward to the day my Sims can order an Aussie Whopper and a Rooster Roll.
Damn I've wanted a Hungry Jacks in my cities for sooo long now.

Good stuff mate :thumbsup:

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #261 on: January 03, 2011, 12:13:43 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline serebii666

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #262 on: January 06, 2011, 04:58:31 PM »
Those look great but a little too clean... Try dirting up the textures and adding a bit more rood junk But otherwise great job!  :thumbsup:
"If Kyle has 3 apples and is shorter that John who has 7 and if John is taller than Jenny who just graduated from Harvard, how old is Karen?"


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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #262 on: January 06, 2011, 04:58:31 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline sam_kan

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #263 on: February 07, 2011, 04:01:52 PM »
WoW they all looks great, hey may I ask where do I download them? I want such bats in my city, thanx, and keep up the great work

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #263 on: February 07, 2011, 04:01:52 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #264 on: February 08, 2011, 06:12:25 AM »
Hi Sam,

thanks for the compliment :thumbsup: (I must say, they've already added a lot to my districts)

These aren't yet available - for some reason the light rig in my Max setup isn't working and I got frustrated and moved onto other things (using gmax). I had considered releasing these as is but I don't think I can (too much of a perfectionist). All I can say is hang in there, once I get back to Max those shops and the bottle-o's are top of the list for completion.


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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #264 on: February 08, 2011, 06:12:25 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline cammo2003

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #265 on: February 10, 2011, 09:51:39 PM »
They do look great.

Any chance of versions with deeper buildings on a 1x2 lot? I usually zone my commercial strips as 1x2 lots, is all. You could probably just tack on cheap looking extensions on the back (the back side of these sorts of shops never looks particularly pretty, in fact they're almost without variation bordering on filthy, even in upscale neighbourhoods.

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #265 on: February 10, 2011, 09:51:39 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #266 on: May 04, 2017, 01:53:19 PM »
Hi to everyone, it's been seven years or so but such is life. After some encouragement from raz444 over at ST I have decided to release some of the projects I worked on years ago. First I am releasing a set of 20 small low/medium wealth Australian shops in 1x1 and newly lotted 1x2 versions. Here's an example:



These don't have nightlights, but I'm not going back and redoing them now.
One problem that was noticed was a lack of shadows in game from the buildings...

If anyone was particularly interested in anything else from back in the day. let me know. (I think I'll get around to doing the drive through bottle shops as well).

It was interesting having a look at the start of this thread - ah the memories... (hopefully there's still some familiar faces around these parts).
Cheers  :thumbsup:

*EDIT: I've forgotten how to display the photos full size but there are two options to see it... ()what())
**EDIT: vester sorted me out
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 07:09:22 AM by thingfishs »

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #266 on: May 04, 2017, 01:53:19 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline Kitsune

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #267 on: May 04, 2017, 04:31:03 PM »
Those look awesome... remind me of the shops I saw in Manly when I was visiting Sydney last year. Love on how you Aussies call Pharmacies "Chemists" :)

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #267 on: May 04, 2017, 04:31:03 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline metarvo

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #268 on: May 04, 2017, 06:58:03 PM »
Good to see you back around!  :)  You're doing a nice job on these shops — there's even one of those payday loan shark businesses like we have in almost every large shopping center around here.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 07:01:12 PM by metarvo »
Find my power line BAT thread here.
Check out the Noro Cooperative.  What are you waiting for?  It even has electricity.
Want more? Try here.  For even more electrical goodies, look here.
Here are some rural power lines.

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #268 on: May 04, 2017, 06:58:03 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #269 on: May 05, 2017, 07:22:49 AM »

kitsune: Cheers  :) Hmm, is Chemist an Aussie word? Do you use Chemist to mean something else? Pharmacy has crept into our vernacular a bit but chemist is still the standard.

metarvo: thanks mate  :) Those places are borderline evil, but as you say, there's plenty of them out there and we strive for reality (grim though it may be...)

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #269 on: May 05, 2017, 07:22:49 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline c.p.

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #270 on: May 05, 2017, 12:43:28 PM »
Those are great little commercial BATs.  I'm glad you came back to release them. :thumbsup:

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #270 on: May 05, 2017, 12:43:28 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline vester

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #271 on: May 05, 2017, 02:51:45 PM »
*EDIT: I've forgotten how to display the photos full size but there are two options to see it... ()what())

Click on the sesond icon in the second row above in the post reply.

Then you get a set of img tags. Inside them you paste the picture link (you can copy it form Imgur on the right side after uploading the image).

That would look like this:
Code: [Select]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aXuEt0P.jpg[/img]
Nice shops. Not sure they will fit in any of my cities.

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #271 on: May 05, 2017, 02:51:45 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline praiodan

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #272 on: May 06, 2017, 05:33:56 AM »
A wonderfully compiled set. Hooray for more variety.  :thumbsup:

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #272 on: May 06, 2017, 05:33:56 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #273 on: May 06, 2017, 08:15:53 AM »
Cheers everyone :thumbsup:

c.p.: Thanks, it looks like they will be useful for some people  :) - if I can sort out the current issues that is...
And while I have you, I'm not sure if I've ever thanked your personally but your terrain controllers and the 2009 tree pack were (literally) game changers for me back in the day, (as a nature oriented person they had a huge impact on my willingness to suspend disbelief and embrace creating "SimCountry", so to speak, so: cheers :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:)

vester: Thanks for your help with the image - it worked, but I'm still missing something. I had already tried doing exactly as you describe - however, the link from the right hand side of the page in imgur didn't work (no i. in front of the address, no .jpg after it and a different number from the actual image...??)
(Ignore this, I can do it now, I was just wondering why it wasn't as straight forward as expected).

praiodan: Cheers mate - hopefully I can get them out sooner rather than later.




At the eleventh hour there have been some unexpected issues. I have finished lotting all 20 businesses in their 1x2 versions (the 1x1 versions are purely a building without any props).

I figured I was basically done, but now I realise that when I do the "cntrl X/buildingplop" thing that a handful of the 1X1 lots aren't showing up. I couldn't figure it out and tried ultimately creating a new desc file from the model file of one - turned it into a new 1X1 CS$ lot, and it STILL didn't show up. ()what()

Now I expect that I've done something wrong (maybe some conflicting numbers somewhere) but am unsure to best approach to identify/rectify the situation...? (I'd really prefer to not have to relot the 1X2 lots if I can but the 1X1's are easily done).

Thanks you if you can point me in the right direction.

*Edit: After another look I am a bit closer to figuring this one out. I now can see that the 1X1 and lots of some of them are being cancelled out by their 1X2 equivalent - when I removed the 1X2 lots the 1X1 lots appeared, but when I put them back they vanished again.
Clearly I've stuffed up with the numbers somewhere....
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 09:26:33 AM by thingfishs »

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #273 on: May 06, 2017, 08:15:53 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #274 on: May 18, 2017, 07:18:02 AM »
Well, I didn't figure the issue out. Some things are happening again that I don't understand and before I get too annoyed, or put it in the too hard basket, I thought I'd run it past you folk (and at ST). Once again, some of my buildings aren't showing up in game (via cntrl X/buildingplop) and I can't understand why. My approach to lot creation might be to blame, but I thought it was a valid method. What I've done is:

1: create a growable lot in SC4PIM (having adjusted the filling degree) in order to get what I gather are the generally preferred stats*

2: open the lot in the Maxis LE (I find using it more convenient/intuitive), do the lot work, and save it.

3: open up one of these previously created lots, replace the building, adjust the props, and save as a new file.

Is this an okay approach? Should all my files be showing up? If more specific info is needed let me know. I would also be happy to pass on the relevant files if someone more knowledgeable about such things could take a look and tell me what's going on...

(also regarding the stats, I know I read about some of this stuff ten years ago but I'd like to get my head around quite why the stats in the SC4PIM are the way they are - the difference to the Maxis approach in the numbers is stark. I've done some searching but haven't found the page where this is spelt out - presumably by ripplejet).

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #274 on: May 18, 2017, 07:18:02 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline twalsh102

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #275 on: May 18, 2017, 09:55:38 AM »
After reading (and re-reading) your last two posts, a couple of things stand out:

1.  In your May 6 post (in the edit section), you mention removing some lots which causes some of the missing lots to reappear.  This would be indicative of multiple lots having the same TGI.  During game load, any object that has the same TGI of an earlier object will overwrite that earlier object, essentially causing it to no longer exist as far as the game is concerned.

2.  In your May 18 post, where you discuss your methodology, Step three appears to be the root of the problem.  Even though you may be saving with a new file name, if you are not changing at least the new lot's IID, then you are essentially creating multiple lots with the same TGI, which will cause overwrites.

As far as the reasons why the stats applied by PIM-X are different than similar buildings created by Maxis, there are two primary reasons (if I remember correctly):

1.  Maxis occupancy stats (and those applied by the Maxis LE) are based solely on the LOD of the model (and possibly some hard-coded default fill level), whereas PIM-X (by allowing you to modify the fill level) allows for a more reasonable LOD taking into account the shape and size of the actual building envelope.  A couple of extreme examples:
   An 100m tall office tower with a 50m antenna on its roof generates an LOD height of 150 meters.  Occupancy stats would be generated based on a 150m tall building vs. one that is only 100m tall as far as usable floor space.
   Another building has a exterior ground footprint measuring 50m x 50m , but also includes and awning in front extending 20m over an entrance driveway.  Since the awning is part of the model, the LOD generated would be based on a footprint of 50 m x 70,m causing possibly inflated occupancy stats.
   Another 100-story office tower has the first three stories with a ground footprint of 100m x 100m, while the remaining 97 stories only have a footprint of 50m x 50m.  The LOD generated would be based on 100m x 100m x 100 stories, vs. 100m x 100m x 3 stories + 50m x 50m x 97 stories.

2.  If Maxis did have a hard-coded fill level, this could cause occupancy of many buildings to be understated.  Again, being able to change the fill level to more closely match the building design allows for more "accurate" occupancy stats.  I find it interesting that the default fill level applied by PIM-X is 0.5.  Could this be what Maxis was using?

3.  PIM-X stats are also generated to be more compatible with CAM and the increased number of development stages it provides.

Tim

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #275 on: May 18, 2017, 09:55:38 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #276 on: May 18, 2017, 12:08:00 PM »
Thanks for taking the time twalsh102 :),

if you are not changing at least the new lot's IID, then you are essentially creating multiple lots with the same TGI, which will cause overwrites.

Look I figured it was something like this but I still don't understand why, when I made a complete set of 40 lots all via the same method, that most of them DID still show up (but not all)...???
Also I'm sure I have seen experienced people endorse the "save as/Maxis LE" approach - but maybe just in specific situations. I use Reader but have never altered these values and the user guide doesn't make me feel overly confident...:

File Info: this can be and is often a very important function to use at times (warning: for advanced users though). This button relates to the address of a file (which is also shown in the Readers Main Window itself in the left panel, under the Type/Group/Instance columns). This address is in the form of “Type” “Group” “Instance” IDs (or TGI for short). Each of these TGI values is specific to the game in one way or another, with the Type & Group generally representing the type of file it is. The Instance ID of each file though generally holds a more specific purpose. No two files that are different will nor should have the same TGI (as a whole). There is an Edit function within this file button itself and allows you to change the TGI of the file. Though it is strongly recommended that you do not change this at all unless you know what you’re doing and/or feel comfortable doing so.

Can anyone help me fit into either of the categories in the previous sentence?


As for the SC4PIM/filling degree data, thanks. It's been years since I've been around all this stuff and I'd gotten things back to front in my head (I thought as a general rule that SC4PIM increased the amount of capacity satisfied).

As a test I created 3 new desc & lots using the same building:

1: Maxis PIM = 54 jobs
2: SC4PIM (default) = 28 jobs
3: SC4PIM (adjusted filling degree to .08) = 43 jobs

Coming from a real world POV, it's hard to accept that Con & Poppy's Snack Bar for example, a small store run by, well, Con & Poppy (i.e two members of staff total), has 40 odd employees.
But if this is how the engine works, then so be it. (It would be nice if the sums added up a bit better though...).

Cheers :thumbsup:

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #276 on: May 18, 2017, 12:08:00 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline twalsh102

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #277 on: May 18, 2017, 08:45:55 PM »
As for the first "why", i.e. "...most of them DID still show up (but not all)...", I could have no answer to that without sitting down with you as you are creating lots and watching what you are doing.  But it does come down to what is said in the file info section of your post:  "The Instance ID of each file though generally holds a more specific purpose. No two files that are different will nor should have the same TGI (as a whole). "  In general it is sufficient to change the Instance part of the TGI (also known as the IID).

Although the warning "Though it is strongly recommended that you do not change this at all unless you know what you’re doing and/or feel comfortable doing so." could cause one trepidation while still learning the process, you really should use the "Generate New Instance" function rather than the "Edit" function.  The edit function requires that you already know (or are copying from elsewhere) what you are going to edit

Reader actually makes it relatively easy to change the IID of any exemplar (without using the edit function).  Once you have loaded a file containing exemplars (.SC4Lot, .SC4Desc, .dat), one needs only right-click the exemplar needing the new Instance ID, and click on "Generate New Instance" (make sure you have picked the correct exemplar as you get no warning of what is about to happen).  Make the same changes to any other exemplars that need changing.  Save the file.  That's all there is to it.

The key all comes down to making sure that multiple lots do not have the same IID.

The issue of occupancy often confuses people.  Although this game is a simulation, that does not equate to simulating real life.  I had the same conundrum you do (Real world vs. Maxis) the first time I checked the stats on what would be a 2-room residential shack in the real world, but it had an occupancy of 18 residents.  If you look at occupancy and jobs from a real-world POV, you will always be befuddled.  You just have to try and disconnect your brain from the real-world POV while playing, and especially while modding.  It all comes down to scale.  If most houses had real-world residency numbers (husband, wife, 2.3 kids, dog, parakeet), you would never be able to build enough houses to create a large worker population (don't forget that Maxis only counts @ 50% of the residential population as being available for jobs).  Likewise, if CS and CO buildings used job stats that reflected real-word situations, you would never be able to build up enough demand for more residents to move in.  The end result would make it impossible to build large cities, or ever get to the point where one started seeing skyscrapers..  So Maxis greatly inflated occupancy numbers.

SC4 can scale residential, CS, and CO areas relatively well.  However, when it comes to things like military bases, seaports, airports, and most major industrial areas, it just doesn't really work within the scale SC4 uses.  Some examples:
1.  The largest Maxis airport lot is 15 x 35 tiles (240m x 560m) for a Large International airport. In the real world, most major international airports would not fit within a large city square (4096m x 4096m).  The Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (arguably the busiest airport in the US) encompasses an area of almost 20 sq. km (including its surrounding service facilities).  A relatively empty Boeing 747 cannot take off from a runway shorter than about 1600m (or 100 tiles in length)
2.  The largest Maxis seaport is 6 x 11 tiles (96m x 176m).  The largest container ships currently in use have lengths up to 400m.  The largest oil tankers exceed 450m.  The part of the Port of Rotterdam built to serve such large vessels encompasses an area exceeding 50 sq. km.
3.  The Maxis army base is 12 x 12 tiles (192m x 192m).  At Fort Carson, Colorado (near where I live), most vehicle motor pools exceed this size, and there are more than 25 of them.  Fort Carson is currently home to more than 26,000 active duty soldiers.
4.  Maxis industrial lots can't hold a candle to real-world industrial areas.  The BMW USA factory near Greenville, South Carolina would almost fill a medium city square (at almost 3.74 sq. km).  This factory has a couple of buildings that would exceed 50 tiles in length if modeled accurately in SC4.

Tim

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #277 on: May 18, 2017, 08:45:55 PM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline thingfishs

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #278 on: May 19, 2017, 04:53:52 AM »
Thanks a lot for your comprehensive response there twalsh102 :thumbsup:

Your summation of the Maxis vs Real World situation puts everything in perspective, thanks.

As for the issue with the lots, I noticed when I tried to open them in Reader (the non working lots), and pressed the 'fill the list' button - that nothing came up. With the working ones they come up normally.
As I have lotted these alphabetically, and the non working ones start part way through the alphabet and continue until the end, it seems that some error created earlier on has been carried through the process...

Maybe the question I should have asked in the very first place was what would be the recommended approach to lotting 20 buildings in 1x1 & 1X2 variations? Is it to do as I've done and manually change the Instance ID afterwards or is there a better/more streamlined approach?

EDIT: Regardless, I have gone ahead and relotted each of the 20 1X1 lots individually via SC4PIM and have purely added a base texture in the Maxis LE and yes, they are all showing up. And I will go ahead and do the same with the 1X2's. The main reason I liked the save as approach was that, with the 1X2 lots, there were a lot of the same props that didn't have to be re-found - just re-positioned a bit. But the main thing is getting these done (properly though...)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 06:34:41 AM by thingfishs »

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #278 on: May 19, 2017, 04:53:52 AM »

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)

Offline twalsh102

Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #279 on: May 19, 2017, 09:19:11 AM »
Streamlined is one of those relative terms.  Something that is streamlined to me may be very ponderous for you, and vice-versa.

A process could be deemed to be streamlined if it accomplishes a given task in the fewest possible steps.
A process could also be deemed to be streamlined if it takes more steps to accomplish a task, but the steps are less complicated and easier to remember, allowing the task to be accomplished in less time (i.e. not needing to read a set of instructions to accomplish each step).

I do have what I think would be a "streamlined" process in mind, but it involves using PIM-X only (I know, I read your comments).  But before I go into what I would hope is not a long-winded description of that process, I want to make sure it's crystalized in my mind what you're working with as a start point.  The following is what I think I've read in / intuited from your various posts:
1.  You've got separate .SC4Model files for each of 20 different buildings.
2.  Using PIM-X, you've created 20 separate .SC4Lot files (of whichever size you created first). 
3.  You would have then needed to create building exemplars for each lot in order to change the fill level of each building exemplar.  So you've now got 20 separate .SC4Desc files with appropriate fill levels.
4.  Your goal is to create 1x1 and 1x2 Lot versions for each building.

How far off the mark am I at this point?  What are the differences between versions other than lot size (more props, different props, placement of props)?  Were the non-working files created first or second for a particular building, or does it vary?  If a particular file is not showing anything when opened in Reader, it could be corrupted, and/or void of any contents.

FWIW, if the process you are using is what you are comfortable with (and it works consistently), as long as you manually change the IIDs for the Lot exemplars, you should be good to go.  If it isn't working consistently (and apparently it isn't), there's something wrong with the process someplace.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what parts of using the PIM-X LE do you have the most problems with?  Also FWIW, I started with PIM-X LE without ever having used the Maxis LE.  I've tried to use the Maxis LE once or twice, and I found it very ponderous, non-user friendly / non-intuitive, and lacking in features.  A definite example of "To each, his own!", I guess.

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Re: Thingfishs is having a B.A.T Downunder (wanna take a look)
« Reply #279 on: May 19, 2017, 09:19:11 AM »

 


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