I am currently TLC-ing Master Paeng's Parks ; but I don't want them to have seasonal trees. However, I love the PK trees he used, in their summer version. More generally, many trees have a spring version that I prefer to their summer (darker) season. Is there a way to fix them into one season only ? The trick of piling several version of the desired tree doesn't work as it does for trees lacing one season -- they disappear in the other seasons...
Hi!
First I think the easiest way is to locate the original model file for the chosen season and make a new prop examplar for yourself from the model. Therefore there wouldn't be active season.
I guess there is a way to modify the existing props, this was the good news. The bad news I have no clue how to edit seasonal flora props. For sure you need to edit certain props in Reader. Therefore to avoid conflicts you need to change the Instance IIDs, which means you need to copy these chosen props into a blank/empty DAT file.
I checked Girafe seasonal tree props and i found a property with values in props when I opened up with reader. You need to locate the chosen prop examplars, than in the left panel you will find a Simulator Date Start property with two values: the first is the starting month in hexasdecimals - 0x01 (january) -0x0C (december) -, the second is the starting day also in hexadecimals, but you should be keep it 0x01. I'm not sure if you remove this property that wouldn't mess up your game. And I'm not sure how to set up these properties to get an all year version of a chosen season.
I have some other thoughts, but I'm not yet in that deep water of modding, so I wouldn't say anything.
Vortext or Girafe probably could help with this probably others too. But what's your problem with the seasonal trees? They are awesome... :D Ok, I actually do understand or something... :)
Easiest way to make clean props from the original models. PIM-X can do that as you know.
- Tyberius
Making new prop exemplars with the Reader might be the easiest option alright. However, this also means that you need to edit the lots that use those trees. The best way would be to have a look at the prop exemplars of the desired season (i. e. spring), copy the model ID (the Resource Key Type 1 line), and insert it into the prop exemplars of the other seasons. Then save a DAT with a copy of all modified exemplar files in a folder that loads last, and voila, the game will display the spring model all year round. :)
It's a clever way, thanks, Andreas.
My only question is (just to learn something) if it's working with RTK 4 properties too? You mentioned the RKT 1 line, but these are RKT 4 props. At least in girafe tree props. So what you say is to change the last 3 hex numbers to the chosen one (the first four hex numbers are 0s., than there is a fifth number, than the model IDs, the last three).
Thanks again...
Quote from: Andreas on August 05, 2018, 03:07:27 PM
Making new prop exemplars with the Reader might be the easiest option alright. However, this also means that you need to edit the lots that use those trees. The best way would be to have a look at the prop exemplars of the desired season (i. e. spring), copy the model ID (the Resource Key Type 1 line), and insert it into the prop exemplars of the other seasons. Then save a DAT with a copy of all modified exemplar files in a folder that loads last, and voila, the game will display the spring model all year round. :)
O...K... I'm going to let this percolate through my fevered mind tonight and not try to do it at once, 'cause I see so many ways I could do it wrong ! :P
It should work with RKT4 as well, just copy the whole line from the spring props and insert them into a copy of the other exemplar files. Technically, the game will still switch the models four times a year, but always displays the spring one. T-Wrecks once did the same with his "Eternal Summer Mod" for Cycledogg's seasonal trees (not sure which RTK they use, though).
There are good reasons why you might prefer one method over the other here.
- When you want to override all such trees, surpressing the seasonal variants
If you edit the RKT4 Values as proposed by Andreas, in effect you are overriding the original props, altering their behaviour everywhere they are used. If you plan on releasing such works, you might consider if everyone else would want their seasonal trees altered too. That's simple enough to resolve, make the prop exemplar changes optional, those who install it, (must load after the original prop pack), would loose the seasonal trees. The advantage here, you retain the flexibility for the lots to show either Seasonal or Non-Seasonal trees, depending on the installation of said prop modifications. - When it's preferable not to mess with such existing props or those used on other lots
In this case, the method suggested by Tyberious might be better, where you just make a new Prop Exemplar for the summer tree. This way your lots won't mess in any way with other lots or uses of the tree.
Personally, I'd be inclined to use the first option here, since those who, like you, didn't want this tree to be seasonal. Probably would prefer that change for all such instances of the tree. Plus it retains the flexibility for those who do prefer to have them seasonal as well.
Mmmm. Yes, I wouldn't want to impose the non-seasonal trees, as I do intend to upload Paeng's parks relots. So how does one make it optional ?
Find the Prop Exemplars for these trees, copy them into a new .DAT, then make the suggested edits. Those who install your modified file will have the trees altered, those who wish to keep seasonal trees should simply not install this optional DAT.
I copied Porkie Prop Vol.2 (were the trees are), opened the copy in the Reader, opened the exemplars, duly copied the RKt1 in the fall and winter trees.
It almost works : they show up in March, stay properly in summer gear but disappear in September.
So what did I do wrong, or what step is missing ? (is it because they don't have a spring version ?)
............
EDIT : hmmm... tried it with CP Cottonwoods, four seasons, trying to stick them on the Spring version, but it's worse : they show up in March, springy, and disappear in June. I did the exact same thing copy-paste the spring RKT1 in the other exemplars. ()what() Decidedly something I don't get and don't do right.
First, make sure you are only copying the Exemplars from Porkie Props Vol.2, you can not re-distribute the models contained in this package, nor is it necessary to do so. If you open up a blank reader window, as well as the Porkie Props file, you can select the exemplars and Copy/Paste them from one window to the other. Note there are 13 such exemplars, you don't technically need the one for the leaves, but if you are making a non-seasonal override, you should give that a null key, which will prevent it from appearing under summer trees, which would look odd. More on that below.
Having made your file with just the exemplars, all you need to do is take the Summer RKT4 property from each set of trees. Right click that, select "Copy Properties". In turn, select the Fall and Winter variants for the same tree, right click the existing RKT4 property and select "Delete Property", then right click again and this time select "Paste Properties", which will paste the summer values in. I.e. the Winter and Fall variants will now link to the summer models instead. Repeat this process for each of the 4 trees that are part of this pack. Lastly, for the leaves, you use a null-key, in short instead of linking to the ID of a model, you link to 0,0,0, which doesn't exist. This won't cause brown boxes or such, it will just make the prop invisible, so it will never show. The RKT4 value for this prop should be changed as follows:
0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0xD1C02FCD,0x00030000
Becomes...
0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000
Bear in mind here, if you alter the RTK type whist keeping the original Prop ID, that can lead to Prop Pox. So if you started with a RKT1 (typical SC4 model) prop, it must remain as such. Similarly, if you start with an RKT4 (timed/seasonal) prop, again it must remain RKT4.
Also worthy of note, with CPs trees this will be more complex, because the Prop Packs are larger. Otherwise, the process is the same, you just have one extra exemplar to edit. However, some creators have both seasonal and non-seasonal props, if you copy the non seasonal ones into previously seasonal props, you will have problems. So it's important to make sure you've used the right Prop Exemplar when copying the RTK values, which should for all seasonal trees be of the RKT4 type, never RKT1.
Going back at it, then. Thanks, Robyn !
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EDIT : OMG, it works! it works !, it works !!!
Guess who's going on a rampage, making evergreen springy trees ?
Thanks, guys.
Well, not quite yet :). I am preparing the .dats of the trees I want to springify and I went through CP 1 & 2. I am now into his ploppableseasonals, ("CP_2009a_Plopable_Trees") trees that I would love to have as evergreens and which are not all in the other prop packs (hornbeam, plum, maple, poplar, cherry ...). They don't have an RKT4 property, but an RKT1.
You said : " (...) the RTK values, which should for all seasonal trees be of the RKT4 type, never RKT1." So I stopped right there !
What do I do with the RKT1 ? I only want the spring version of those ploppable trees ; how do I extract it so that it is the only one I plop ? Is it as simple as pasting that version (i.e. "[tree]3") in the blank .dat ?
Well, have a closer look at the exemplar names, Cycledogg clearly labeled all seasonal trees as "CP_Seas_..." or something similar. I just browsed the exemplar files, and indeed it looks like all of them have a RKT4 property instead of a RKT1. Just keep in mind that any RKT4 must stay RKT4, and if you find some RKT1, those must stay RKT1.
You can use this method to exchange the model of virtually any prop, so if you don't like a particular tree, just replace the RKT1 of this tree model with the RKT1 of another tree model that you like better. This is basically what certain "no palm" mods and such do, they replace the palm trees with others, so even when a lot has a palm tree on it, the game will show a spruce or whatever has been picked as replacement.
(I just to be sure I got your answer right :) : so I proceed with the RKT1 as I did with the RKT4 copy-delete-paste in each tree exemplar, with the RKT1 of the version I want ?
Since those are ploppable (one click/one version) I thought the process might be different...
Now you are confusing me, I thought you were talking about having "eternal spring" trees on your lots?! Mayor mode trees might be handled in a different way, I'd have to look at those before telling what to do with them. But as I said, editing the RTK property will always do the same: tying a specific model to an exemplar file.
Quote from: evarburg on August 07, 2018, 09:57:10 AM
(I just to be sure I got your answer right :) : so I proceed with the RKT1 as I did with the RKT4 copy-delete-paste in each tree exemplar, with the RKT1 of the version I want ?
Since those are ploppable (one click/one version) I thought the process might be different...
There is no way I know of that you can use an RKT1 prop and have them change. In order to turn props on and off, technically timed props, you must have an RKT4 prop. So if you are looking at RKT1 props, they are NOT seasonal.
Bear in mind too, Flora are NOT Props either, all MMPs are Flora-based. You can not make these non-seasonal in the same way. You will have to manually edit the RKT4 value, copy/pasting the Summer/Spring tree ID will not work.
From what I have seen, the seasonal flora for the God mode (which can be used as MMPs as well) is built with an RKT4 with 24 REPs that contain three different set of model IDs (summer, autumn, winter - not sure about the order). So I guess in order to make those non-seasonal, you'd have to find out the proper model IDs for the spring props yourself (by finding the matching one in the prop packs) and replace all three ID sets with that one, which is a bit of a chore, so I wouldn't recommend that. It's much easier if you'd just use a non-seasonal tree controller. Also, I'm sure that most MMPs come in a non-seasonal variety as well, so there's not really a point to edit those.
Hi all,
Not trying to hijack the thread (and sorry for being slightly off-topic) but I'm looking for a very basic tutorial on how to make a simple "mayor ploppable" item, and not seasonal, not even a "tree" (although it should be available in the trees menu). Just a simple mayor ploppable, with a box as a model.
Any help would be highly appreciated.
The best tutorial I know of is by Dedgren which can be found here (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:Turning_Props_Into_Plops).
To Andreas : those specific CP trees are not available in a non-seasonal version, which is why I wish I could extract them from their seasonal state... ???
Add yes, it's still about having eternal spring trees ! :P
Which specific ones are those? Can you tell the file, and some exemplar names?
Just to clarify, do you mean this file (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2631)?
If so, every single exemplar in there, (all of which are Flora, not Props, because that's how MMPs work), are of the type RKT4.
Once again I will state, in order for props to change, which is simply a trick where you turn props on and off at the desired dates, they MUST be RKT4. RKT1 props can never be changed, in other words switched between on and off. So it is literally impossible for RKT1 props to be seasonal. Therefore if you are looking at RKT1 props, they are not the props you are looking for.
Flora Props work differently to regular Props, see Exemplar Type, which will tell you if you are looking at a Prop or Flora exemplar. From the linked download, here is the RKT4 value of the first such exemplar:
0x00000002,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x68680000,0x00000001,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x686A0000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x00000000,0x27812821,0x5AD0E817,0x0E274FB2,0x68690000
I have marked the three model IDs in bold, the remaining Reps, (a rep is one field of data), are needed for things to work. You must find which of these three Type, Group and Instance ID combinations matches the tree you want to always appear. Then simply overwrite the two TGIs you don't want with the one you do. Be careful to change the correct fields though or you'll quickly run into trouble. It's actually simpler for this particular example as the TG (Type/Group IDs) are identical for all three. In other words, you only need change the third number/ID, the Instance or IID.
Note that the actual models for this MMP are inside the CP Megapack Vol.2, which is where you are probably finding the RKT1 props. Since they DO exist as non-seasonal props, but this MMP has been designed to use the seasonal models. You should NOT be copying/editing or in any way using the exemplars from the CP Megapack file. You must modify the MMP file instead. Lastly, you can't override MMP flora, if you try, you'll end up with duplicate menu entries, even if the IDs are the same. So in such cases don't make copies or overrides, but instead modify the file directly. Although I would keep a copy of the unmodified file, outside of your plugins, as a backup.
Yes, going through CP vol2 again I realized I had been mistaken and that the MMPs were present with the tinkerable :) RTL4. I'm gonna do them too.
The first batch went well (except the ShrubRound that is missing its summer version -- what do you in that case ?) I'll post pictures of the whole thing when it's finished. I'm pretty happy with the generally lighter greens. :P
Next thing I'll wish to learn is how to make plops out of only the spring versions of those seasonals (so as not to have to stack them anymore...) ; is that what Dedgren's tutorial is teaching ? I am not sure... ???
If a particular season for a given model exists, there is probably a reason for its omission. Just pick another seasons model. If I recall correctly, I don't think you can have more than 3 seasons for an MMP tree as Flora only allows for switching between three models.
There is no real benefit from making new MMPs just to have non-seasonal variants. It's much quicker and less complicated to simply switch those few seasonal only MMPs to one model. Since most such MMPs usually have the option for both Seasonal/Non Seasonal, you shouldn't need to change that many. Not to mention, because the ID of the MMP remains the same, everything already planted will auto-adjust. The tutorial shows how to make a multi-stage MMP, i.e. one where each subsequent click switches to the next prop in a sequence. It doesn't really cover timed/seasonal props, although setup correctly, you could use the same implementation for the MMPs. Some things will need to be different if following that tutorial for use with single-stage MMPs, but it's a big barrel of worms to open if you don't otherwise intend to get into making MMPs. If on the other hand this is something you plan to delve into, starting with multi-stage MMPs IMO is best, because once you've an understanding of the basic MMP layout, tweaking that to single-stage isn't so difficult. My #1 tip on that is have a good template MMP to use when modding, Girafe or Badsims MMPs are a very good place to look for such.
Quote from: mgb204 on August 09, 2018, 02:30:56 PM
My #1 tip on that is have a good template MMP to use when modding
Agreed. Tutorials are a good way to get a basic understanding of modding, providing hints where to look, and how to use the modding tools. However, they can never cover every aspect, so after making yourself familiar with the general layout of SC4 files (exemplar files consist of a bunch of properties, ID numbers that reference other files, etc.), the best way to learn more is looking at existing files and comparing them with others.
Compare exemplar files of growables with those from plopplables, compare prop exemplar files with building exemplar files, etc. Have a good look at existing mods that do the same as your planned one. Sometimes, you have to guess what a certain property does, but the name should give you a general idea. Experiment yourself, and always have a backup ready, in case something goes wrong. Eventually, you'll get the hang of it. :)
I'm not going to make MMP -- yet, at least $%Grinno$%. I just want to be able to plop a spring only version of those CP seasonals, 'cause the stacking gets a bit of a drag...
er, girl... ::) That IS a MMP ! OK, so I will follow your and Andreas' wise advice.
Anyhow, I hit a snag with a few trees ; most have been corrected ; but the one that keeps obdurately resisting me is the StreetValleyOak. It insists on having an inalterable Winter exemplar (see pict.). I redid the .dat three times very carefully ; I also checked the Simulator Whatever (as I noticed they were wrong for a few trees ; it's supposed to be the same suffix for each seasonal, right ? 3D-Fall / 5C-Spring/ 7A-Summer and 5A-Winter ?). Nothing changes. I just want someone to tell me it's not me and that somehow something is wrong with that seasonal tree set, and then I will just scrape it --I can do without some trees (the Wide Oak eclipses in one season -- though it has its four exemplars ; redid the .dat ; redid the 4plop, same difference ; ah well...)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/IMAGES-PROBLOS/i-f4w68P2/0/ac9d83aa/L/StreetValleyOak%20Winter-L.jpg)
If the Lot Editor is showing the original ID of the prop exemplar of that model, the winter one ends with 7A, and not 5A. There is no rule whatsoever that a certain ID indicates a certain season; maybe Cycledogg exported most models in a specific order, so it appears that there is a certain pattern, but that's not the case. So what you need to do is finding the CP_StreetValleyOak_Spring exemplar file, and just copy the ID that shows up there, and paste it into the other three exemplar files. If that doesn't work, then there's probably an error in the prop pack somehow, but the preview in the Lot Editor should show if the exemplar names are correct.
One little thing, though: Cycledogg added some "Semi Seasonal" trees into some of the prop packs that have just two states, summer and winter. There is only ONE exemplar file for this, and it is set up in a certain way, so the prop switches between the summer and winter model automatically, so you don't need to stack props on top of each other. The Lot Editor will always display the winter state, but in the game, it switches to the summer model at a certain time that is determined in the properties. You have to find out which modei ID links to the summer and the winter versions, and then change the winter ID to a copy of the summer ID.
I didn't use semi-seasonals, only four seasons seasonals :)
I am more and more confuzzled. I try to do what Andreas advised, i.e. copy the ID of the spring version onto the other exemplars. I've never done anything like that and I didn,t know how to proceed. I found the ID (in the L.E.. OK. Now in the Reader, I opened the editor and clicked TGI :
(https://photos.smugmug.com/IMAGES-PROBLOS/i-kvfBpf9/0/0ab17c19/XL/ID%20TGI%20all%20that%20jazz%20-%20copie-XL.jpg)
I copied the spring version ID into the other exemplar, using the window with ### on the right (not the blue one) It changed all Instances to the spring version one. I reindexed, rebuild the directory (don't know if the latter is necessary but it can't hurt), saved and reopened the L.E. The result ? All trees have reverted to their seasonal version.
Er.... I don't think that was the expected result. $%Grinno$% So what did I do wrong, sigh, again ?
After editing the IDs, they did show up properly in the Reader, I hope? Usually, you have to click every "Apply" button that you can see in order to apply (duh!) the changes. In any case, there might be some kind of bug in the "new" Reader; if everything fails, thy the good old 0.9.x version of the original iLive Reader. That one never failed for me.
I did "Apply" each time I changed the ID, and finally reindexed and saved.
What if I add the spring Exemplar ID property in the exemplars ?
.....
I did that + redid the I in TGI :-) but the L.E. still only shows the original IDs ; AND they have reverted to their original seasonal aspects...
I think I can live with one less tree... ;D
....................... EDIT.....................EDIT.......................EDIT................
Well, colour me flabbergasted (the colour of flabbergasted is blue). The two trees that insisted on having a winter season, and that I re-re-re-redid just-in-case, now both work perfectly.
I will NOT try to understand.... I will NOT try to understand... I will NOT....
I like blue! :) Well, glad it worked out eventually, no idea what could have been wrong, but it's the result that counts.
Hear, hear !
Well, I will have learned a few new tricks, though ! Thank you, everybody, and until next time (the "But, really, how the heck do I make plops out of the spring version only ? phase, after trying to find my way around dedgren's tutorial ::)