• Welcome to SC4 Devotion Forum Archives.

NAM Issues Thread - PLEASE POST YOUR NAM QUESTIONS AND PROBLEMS HERE

Started by jahu, June 03, 2007, 10:15:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

RippleJet

Quote from: HandsOn on April 29, 2008, 04:15:33 AM
Seriously, though: since the repository saves its data - could that be in CSV format? Or is it already??

It doesn't save any data, despite its name... ::)
It's reading variables that are available from within the game. ;)

Andreas

Quote from: RippleJet on April 28, 2008, 11:54:40 PM
Just in the same way as industries within a city can have a capacity (which is seen in the query), the route query may not show anybody actually working in that industry. The industrial capacity seen across the border is there for the simulator to take into consideration, but it is no guarantee that anybody will actually be crossing that border if you query it with the route query.

I have experienced this phenomenon in my latest city as well. The city was created in a region with about 5 million residents, and was connected to two other cities, one large one and a small one. Due to the high demand for industry, I was able to create about 200,000 industrial jobs, but there wasn't a single commuter travelling to my industrial areas! The buildings worked, fine, though, the query showed a nice number of workers, and freight was leaving my city. I expanded that city up to 200,000 residents or so, when there appeared commuters finally, and I was able to rise the population to 500,000 sims in no time. Now the avenues, railways and trams are crowed, and deep-red in the traffic data view. ;)
Andreas

c0rnh0li0

Well, I finally got a chance to turn the game back on & try redoing the connections. Still no difference. :'( It's like I've created the Larkins Triangle. Sims go in, but don't come back out.

jplumbley

Quote from: c0rnh0li0 on April 29, 2008, 11:08:23 PM
Well, I finally got a chance to turn the game back on & try redoing the connections. Still no difference. :'( It's like I've created the Larkins Triangle. Sims go in, but don't come back out.

I dont think this is a solvable problem.

I think it is a problem with the way MAXIS designed the Region tracking, or lack or Region Tracking.  Essentially, when Commuters reach a border they are considered as having a job in the Residential City.  Sometimes, as it would seem these numbers may get confused by the game and instead of the Industrial City reading the commuters as "commuters" (who need to look for a job), it is being told they already have a job.

As we all know now, SimCity4 is not a regional game.  It is and always will be a game for a single city and the neighboring tiles of that city.  This is due to the fact MAXIS really, really skimped out on the regional tracking and never built any Traffic Simulator for regional play.  Basically when you exit a City, the game saves a very limited amount of data for Regional Play, such as, population, jobs, population commuting, jobs available, etc.  And it is very dumb aswell, because the game will not update this information until that city is opened again.  Since you cant have two tiles open at once, neighboring tiles dont communicate with each other.

Think about the commuication between two cities as Voice mail messages when you keep missing someone you need to talk to.  You phone your buddy and you leave a message saying, lets to goto the bar tonight.  Your buddy phones you back 20 mins later but you miss the call so he has to leave a message.  His message says, man I only have $15 maybe we should goto the movies instead.  So, you get his message, look up some movies and phone him back.  You get voice mail again and you leave a message with all the movies.  Then your buddy gets your new message...  He phones back and then gets your voice mail and says its cool man I was given $50 at work today we can goto the bar.

Imagine how difficult it would be to communicate with someone like that...   Not very easy.  This is how the game does "regional tracking".  Its very stupid, but it is a simplistic way of making it appear as if the game was built for regional play, when it really, deep down wasnt.
"You learn something new everyday."

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/169/nhpjplumbleykv3.gif
Bringing the new horizons closer to reality.

Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ Dedgren ♦ Ennedi Shadow Assassin ♦  Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Street Addon Mod - SAM

HandsOn

Quote from: RippleJet on April 29, 2008, 07:54:24 AM
It doesn't save any data, despite its name... ::)
It's reading variables that are available from within the game. ;)
Well, may it should. Since it is becoming abundantly clear that Maxis slept through the regional finals, maybe the CR can jump into the breach: save the data for each city as you exit and read all adjecent city as you enter a city.

Or am I crazy?
()what()


Why not visit The Empire MD
Just updated on July 2nd, 2008
And after the game's done.. - The Storyteller's Logbook

Diggis

Quote from: jplumbley on April 30, 2008, 02:03:00 AM
I was given $50 at work today we can goto the bar.

Quote from: HandsOn on April 30, 2008, 02:40:50 AM

Or am I crazy?
()what()

I think you might be. 

We would have to figure out not only how to save that information but also how to get the game to read it as well.  The Census Respository only reads information already available.

HandsOn

Quote from: Diggis on April 30, 2008, 02:45:45 AM
I think you might be. 

We would have to figure out not only how to save that information but also how to get the game to read it as well.  The Census Respository only reads information already available.
Of course, I am, that was a rhetorical question. But since I am: you minor (and major) gods in the SC4 pantheon are MODifying the game all the time - your generate data for the game through NAM; caps are changed, hats are passed. So if the CS where to save the data, the CS could read it when you queried it. The EXE need never know (as any divorced man will tell you..)


Why not visit The Empire MD
Just updated on July 2nd, 2008
And after the game's done.. - The Storyteller's Logbook

jplumbley

The Census Repository, only reads Data from the Save Game files.... We cannot make a "lot" in-game overwrite the Save Game files... that is kinda impossible since these files are being used by the game.

What, *may* be possible but still probably wouldnt help is a program that reads the data from the Save Game files, while your not playing, and makes them all "line up"... but the limitation is not necessarily the data.  Its the way the EXE reads and interprets the data.  If there isnt anything in EXE that is written to read or compare, etc then the game wont do it.  Also, if there is an error when the EXE calculates something, we still cannot fix it because it is in the EXE.

All the files WE edit are file MAXIS extracted out of the EXE and provided for us to edit them.  These files override the files in the EXE...  No we cannot extract other files out of the EXE, or create other files to add functionality.  If we wanted to add functionality, such as Diagonal Bridges, we would have to edit the EXE, we cant edit the files we have to make Diagonal Bridges.  Just like there are not "useful" files for Regional Tracking.
"You learn something new everyday."

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/169/nhpjplumbleykv3.gif
Bringing the new horizons closer to reality.

Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ Dedgren ♦ Ennedi Shadow Assassin ♦  Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Street Addon Mod - SAM

HandsOn



Why not visit The Empire MD
Just updated on July 2nd, 2008
And after the game's done.. - The Storyteller's Logbook

c0rnh0li0

You ain't kidding.  :angrymore: I just don't get why this one "dead" spot exists. I have no problem w/my other hwy/road connections. That's why I thought it was a problem w/the new NAM. I just couldn't figure how I messed up after going over the entire setup over & over.

RippleJet

Quote from: HandsOn on April 30, 2008, 03:08:38 AM
Aargh - another dream shattered  :'(

Even if we would be able to read the exact census from all cities in the region and make them available to the game, that wouldn't lead to a better simulator. The simulator extrapolates the regional census it reads when starting a city, somehow considering that the surrounding cities are growing at the same pace as the one we are playing at the moment. If this wouldn't be the case, if the simulator would always rely on the regional census available last time the surrounding cities were saved, then the development would soon come to a complete halt in that city.

Besides, that last saved regional census is available if you use Daeley's Regional Tracking Mod. :thumbsup:


Quote from: c0rnh0li0 on April 30, 2008, 07:09:04 AM
You ain't kidding.  :angrymore: I just don't get why this one "dead" spot exists. I have no problem w/my other hwy/road connections. That's why I thought it was a problem w/the new NAM. I just couldn't figure how I messed up after going over the entire setup over & over.

I would still want to see the Census Repository Facility's report for Larkin! ::)
Just to rule out the possibility that Larkin wouldn't be seeing any residential capacity in the neighbouring cities.

builder

You guys are lucky. I can't even install the newest NAM. I've tried at simtropolis too, but when I click the download button, nothing happens. It makes me go: :angrymore:

Diggis

Even here?  The ST one seems to be locked for some reason.  We are unable to sort that, but the one here is fine.  Are you registered on the LEX as well?

HandsOn

Quote from: RippleJet on April 30, 2008, 07:26:22 AM
Even if we would be able to read the exact census from all cities in the region and make them available to the game, that wouldn't lead to a better simulator. The simulator extrapolates the regional census it reads when starting a city, somehow considering that the surrounding cities are growing at the same pace as the one we are playing at the moment. If this wouldn't be the case, if the simulator would always rely on the regional census available last time the surrounding cities were saved, then the development would soon come to a complete halt in that city.

Besides, that last saved regional census is available if you use Daeley's Regional Tracking Mod.

Last first: I tried Daeley's mod before I found yours, RJ. And it left me wanting because of its insistence; unlike the farm report you always need to "switch it off". Besides, your's gives a full representation at a single, UI glance.

All that's been said about it is valid - the simulator reamins an untouchable. But keeping the data you provide does also serve an another purpose - to see development over time - thus my plea for a "Save" button..at the moment I copy it out by hand and then enter it a spreadsheet. And I find this sort of malarkey very interesting. Remeber: if you torture numbers long enough, they will tell you anything..


Why not visit The Empire MD
Just updated on July 2nd, 2008
And after the game's done.. - The Storyteller's Logbook

xxdita

I take screen captures of the Census Repository Report on a regular basis, especially before and after using any questionable mods or lots. Saves trees that way.  :P

c0rnh0li0

Quote from: RippleJet on April 30, 2008, 07:26:22 AM
I would still want to see the Census Repository Facility's report for Larkin! ::)
Just to rule out the possibility that Larkin wouldn't be seeing any residential capacity in the neighbouring cities.
If I can get some time this week to download it & figure out how to post an image, I'll post it here. FAIR WARNING: I'm as skilled at a computer as Brittney Spears is at being sober.

builder


Jonathan

The LEX uses a different system(or something) to the forums, so you need to register to the LEX as well as the Forums(which you have obviously already done). The ST download link is just crazy so tbh be honest you'd be safer getting it here(that's a fact and I'm not trying to sitetist)

nerdly_dood

When exactly should i install the NAM Essentials to enable new bridges to work? Before or after the new bridges? I keep trying to install the bridges but i keep forgetting that i must be doing something wrong that involves not installing the Essentials, or installing at the wrong time.
My days here are numbered. It's been great and I've had a lot of fun, but I've moved on to bigger and better things.
—   EGO  VOBIS  VADELICO   —
Glory be unto the modder and unto the fun and unto the city game!

Tarkus

nerdly, if you have the April NAM, there's no need to run the April NAM Essentials, which is there mainly for people who want to use the new bridges without installing the NAM. 

-Alex