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BAT Showcase

Started by mattb325, February 01, 2007, 04:07:43 PM

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Tyberius06

Geeez!
Last year the Multi-Station pack, this year this huge FAR project! I really appreciate that you're doing/making these models and props! Really nice additions!

- Tyberius
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

art128

Wow that's a pretty impressive modern church alright. Thanks for the uploads!

If you're looking for inspiration for maybe a next one, Take a look at Creteil's Cathedral. it's pretty nice in its own way too.
I'll take a quiet life... A handshake of carbon monoxide.

Props & Texture Catalog

mattb325

Thanks guys! I like the Creteil's Cathedral. It is so unexpected in that location  :)

So, a total of 84 new models have now been released to cover the last 5 or so pages (and add another 20 or so lots to my backlog of releases, but at least these models are no longer cluttering up my PC  :D)

As well as the buildings, in the pack there are other items and prop families such as benches, hedges, Maxis - style car clusters at 18.4 degrees to help get us started with FAR-3 stuff. I intend to make some more later on, but this is enough to start everyone off, as well as keeping the size of the packs manageable.

Maxis Nite users: https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3709
Dark Nite users: https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3710

omgitskosc

36MB of new stuff to play around with? Sign me up right now!  :thumbsup:

Andreas

Admittedly, the pack would have been a lot more managable if you released the individual models instead of such a DAT-packed dependency file, but the sheer quality of your work will motivate me enough to disassemble the DAT with the Reader myself, so I can pick those that I like for my game (I might not need all the FAR and/or orthogonal models, for instance). :)
Andreas

mattb325

Oh Andreas, just download the lot of them and live dangerously....

The little sunken (stoner?) park is released to start the ball rolling:





Here:https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3711

Tyberius06

Quote from: Andreas on October 29, 2018, 01:16:44 PM
Admittedly, the pack would have been a lot more managable if you released the individual models instead of such a DAT-packed dependency file, but the sheer quality of your work will motivate me enough to disassemble the DAT with the Reader myself, so I can pick those that I like for my game (I might not need all the FAR and/or orthogonal models, for instance). :)

NO-NO-NO-NO. If I want to use Matt's models and props on my lots in the future, this ONE "big dependency file" way I only need to list ONE dependency, what you're suggesting would mean dozens of additional dependencies. I'm lotter, I'm using multiple buildings on my LOTs, take a look at onto the GLR packs. Every single Lot has 10+ dependencies (the most is 19 iirc). I wouldn't care about it, if the folks out there haven't been complaining all the time they need to download 2 more dependencies. So Go for DAT packs!

Nice little park, Matt, thanks for sharing it! :)

- Tyberius
You may find updates about my ongoing projects into my development thread here at SimCity 4 Devotion: Tyberius Lotting Experiments
or over there on Simtropolis into the Tyberius (Heretic Projects) Lotting and Modding Experiments.
I'm also member of the STEX Custodian and working on different restoration projects on behalf of non-anymore-active custom content creators.
Current projects: WMP Restoration and SimCity Polska Restoration.
Member of the NAM Team and RTMT Team.

Andreas

The park, the benches, trees and what not are fine for the prop pack, but I prefer to have separate files for the big hospital, for instance. ;) Anyway, nothing that can't be tweaked to everyone's liking, so I'm fine with tinkering myself - it just takes a little longer...
Andreas

fantozzi

#1828
If I look on the arguments for Andreas or MattB325 - for both there are valid arguments and it's impossbile to decide this is better or that is better.

I would agree those masterpieces of bats shouldn't be packed together. Each bat ist too much outstanding. I agree to pack typical row houses for a region, very similar in style and size and so make them a package. But to datpack iconographic buildings from ancient europe and modern USA f.e. - datpacking without a game-relevant theme, me I don't like much.

On the other hand it's a FAR pack, a well themed pack that makes perfect sense. So like the station series before there's the same good reason also this time to pack the bats together.

On the other hand, they are much to outstanding, much to much 'artworks on its own' to datpack them all together.


And this way it's a tie - going round in circles - good arguments on both sides. Well every FAR-lot you showed can stand for itself and marks a milestone for SC4. I have sympathies with Andreas' point of view.

At the end for me too, it would be best if I had a museums pack and a police pack and a hospital pack (actually that's the way I pack most of the time - function oriented) and all those packs now could include one FAR-exemplar thanks to Matt. With packing all the FAR-buildings together the possibility to pack them individually in this way becomes more difficult. It's an organisation question, everybody may answer a little different. Many people will appreciate to have all the FAR bats in one file - other may wish to organize the files different.

There is not always wrong or right to help to decide in a world of million of possible choices. Sometimes more than one choice can be "right", sometimes all can be "wrong".

Therefore the french psychologist Alain Ehrenberg ("The Fatigue of being oneself") came up with the interesting thesis that the more free an individual is the more stressed it is, high on risk getching up a depression beeing overwhelmed by so many important and even existential decissions each day.

And from this comes my thesis that we waste to much energy in silly choices, to profile, to sharpen the individual needs - we browse through the net and find a million of different T-Shirts to wear. And we spent much time on thinking which of them would be the best, the very rare, the very uniqeúe and special fitting highly profiled needs best. At the end - if you could only choose between 10 different T-shirts it might be you were a much more lucky man instead. Freedom, the freedom of choice, at a certain point becomes a trap, a trap for your thoughts becoming hunted by the sensation of offers, by the terror of options.
So sometimes the key to a happy life is to forget about all the needs like unpayed bills: I need this bat and that bat, I need this or that T-Shirt.

It's a point where contemporary psychology and ancient Daoism meet.

Very interesting.

But totally off topic. Sorry.

Still, in my opinion it's a good idea to offer resistance against being guided by choices. by permanent "this or that questions" in it's true light they all aren't needed. When they ask you, do you want your coffee with milk or with sugar - always resist to obey the given thinking, instead always think what you really want ... like me now, f.e. I want my coffee with some scotch, nor milk nor sugar. All these choices are like a giant crossword puzzle leading your thinking in a predefined direction - mostly markets or culture wants you to follow.

There is an excellent book by Paul Watzlawick, John H. Weakland and Richard Fisch called "Change: Principles of Problem Formation and Problem Resolution" It's a kind of instruction how to escape the "this-or-that-systems" of thinking. Highly recommended.
 

mattb325

#1829
I've walked enough miles on this earth to know when an argument is masking something else.

This is one such case of sour grapes and has less to do with dat-packing and more to do with: a) yellow pedestrian crossings not being removed or re-rendered white, b) not all buildings rendered as orthogonal and, c) signage on certain buildings, such as the fire-station, that isn't to taste.

Without disabusing the work of Ehrenberg in favour of Watzlawick, Weakland, Fisch, et al, let me simply say that I have made the choice for you.

It is easier for me with multiple items to be tested and released (not just this FAR project but others as well) to have these files in one spot. That, as the creator of these items is my inexhaustible and unassailable right to do as I please.

The argument over whether something free is dat packed or not is as silly as receiving your favourite book for Christmas and then complaining about the colour of the wrapping paper so loudly as to completely diminish yourself, the act of giving and the item itself. It is churlishness. Plain and simple.

In 2006, the BSC conducted the Miramba experiment. Several players used the same map (each with unique plugins) to test why so many people were experiencing CTDs and other performance issues. One of the main outcomes of that experiment was that it was proven that multiple files inside the plugins folder were a large cause of the issues. But when those files were packaged into a larger prop-pack the issues of load time and stability were greatly improved. Wouganine's dat-packer, released in 2007, was borne out of these findings. It is as invaluable today as a decade ago, and it makes not one ounce of difference to the program or the game whether a previously dat-packed prop pack is further dat-packed for play or not.

Andreas knows this only too well, because he took part in the experiment:
http://www.simforum.de/showthread.php?t=119190

He also dat-packs the SFBT essentials, which, oddly enough, contains many little-used props and small buildings rather than just query interfaces, textures and other items 'traditionally' associated with an essentials package. Do I complain when I get something for free? Of course not: if there is something I don't like in the package I deal with it privately, or I ignore it. To protest loudly in public would simply make me look as foolish as the person who received their favourite book for Christmas only to ruin it all by carrying on about the wrapping paper it came in.

This, as far as I am concerned, with objects that I am providing free of charge, is where the discussion ends.

Alan_Waters

I agree with fantozzi, but I will support matt325. We were given a game (in this case it is a plugin), and we have the right to accept the conditions of this game or not. If we accept, then there are no problems, if not, then this is only our personal problem, and only we can solve it

Jack_wilds

Thanks ever so much Matt for your work and models and packs...  will state beyond what you said already as what you said is plain... as I simply play teh game... I enjy all the "free" stuff as much as I can and does so gratefully... I take what is offered and use as I can in the manner I play... to dat pack or not si for the batter and makers to decide... everyone else just has got to know.. take what you get as it is; otherwise just stop playing... I think Andreas "knows better" as he also does the same thing with packing... and it is his choice about what to do w ith the packing as he is able to do so... if my 2 cents is all wet just ignore it and through teh pennies back on teh sidewalk...but I will play as I have gotten it by Matt as it seems to work and load very well for me... and I will watch and see and hope that the building in this pack can and will be lotted as I am not able to honestly do that well ad good and keep game functioning...  the modern chirch is a design work of study... wonder how it would look in glass or some glass and stone and if built into a slope how ot would look... again best wishes for Matt and continued work projects... looking forward to more...  :)

Andreas

#1832
Oh yeah, I do remember Miramba, but I don't remember that it was conducted as "experiment" regarding CTDs. For me, it was just playing the game and seeing how others develop the very same region compared to mine. :)

But let me say one thing: I didn't "complain" about your BATs being DAT packed, I merely preferred separate files. I'm perfectly fine with prop packs and the like, but I never liked building models of different styles merged together. The SFBT Essentials don't contain buildings, but merely props, textures, query UIs and other things that are frequently used - and they still consist of separate files, so you can easily update and manage them - and remove some parts if you don't need them.

I am very grateful that BATers, lot makers and modders provide such a variety of stuff - for free, even. I appreciate your work, but I also like to provide suggestions, ask about things I didn't understand and last but not least, mention one or another thing that I didn't like. Mind you, this is free speech, but these days, free speech is quickly seen as "hate speech", and therefore often censored in social media and elsewhere. I know that there are cultural differences, and in some cultures, it's not "allowed" to say criticism outloud.

However, this is an international forum, and I can't hide my German heritage, and I think the direct way Germans talk about things, mentioning both the things they like and the things they don't like, is something that most of you learned over the past few years. I am sad that this is still seen as disrespectful behavior ("complaints, complaints, complaints") rather than valuable feedback and criticism. Yes, you might not like it, and prefer to do it your way, and that's what you should do - but you should at least acknowledge that other people expressed their thoughts beyond sheer praise.

Anyway, I'm not here to start an argument, nor did I intend to diminish your achievements. I'm in awe of what you created, and it's definitely among the best items that were ever made for the game. You're filling a lot of gaps that haven't been touched so far, something that the SFBT was always trying to do as well. For me, the American (and maybe Australian, too?) way of sheer and utter praise while holding back with the criticism always seems so "shallow" and "fake", so I'm sorry if my "German way" offended you. That was certainly not my intention at all. I just don't understand why this continues to upset you so much, knowing each other since more than a decade now... :(

Well, that's all, sorry for the long-winded posting, but I just had to get this off my chest.
Andreas

mattb325

#1833
Indeed for more than a decade.

And I am not upset in the least: just calling it as I see it.

The reason I said what I said is not about wanting effulgent praise, but precisely because you weren't being direct: instead, using dat-packing as the falsche freunde for three other elements that you mentioned a few times prior to the release of the pack. I've lived, studied and worked in Germany, and I'm aware of the particular aspects of the culture enough to be sensitive to them and accommodate their peculiarities. I will never, ever disavow free speech. Free speech is hard-won and hard-fought, but you must understand that it is a two-way street.

However, it's that such tangents (whether a file is dat-packed) muddy the waters and I won't see the thread become a re-run for a discussion that should have been put to bed 11 years ago.

mrbisonm

 %%Order?/  .....Just to throw in my mustard to this (while hoping we can get back to work after this)  &Thk/(.....Can we go on with what this thread actually is all about? &mmm

Dat or reg files...who cares? I couldn't give a "ehem" about this, one or the other will make the bat/lot appear in the game....and THAT is what counts.
mo.    :thumbsup:


mrb


....Uploading the MFP 1.... (.........Finishing the MFP1)

Andreas

I hear you, Fred. I didn't expect that my little comment about DAT packing would cause such a big discussion that is picked up by several other users, and that's it's even conceived as some kind of "secret agenda" to pick up a discussion that should have been settled long ago. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut and keep dropping bricks here... :-X
Andreas

mrbisonm

Don't worry Andreas, that was just a funny remark from me....  :thumbsup: (something to smile about)

Fred


....Uploading the MFP 1.... (.........Finishing the MFP1)

mattb325

If this thread doesn't return to topic, I will lock it, and I will never re-open it. (Again, I'm not upset but understand this isn't "bat by committee")

Andreas

Since thinking outloud might upset you eventually, I shall leave your thread, please go ahead and do your thing.

On-topic: That modern church is another thing that was desperately needed in the game, you see those everywhere, but all we had in the game was historic landmarks so far. :)
Andreas

Jack_wilds

okay... back on track... your civic works and the library... as it strikes a cord with its design... Appleton is also on track to  build its new main library as a  mixed use facility... with the few similarities almost wonder if this latest proposal some how inspired you... and then was your design an original or inspired?... and then the church... is such a design suitable for terrained sites?...