The Noro Cooperative

[noahclem]

I've continued to chip away at the work the airport needs though I think it looks like more progress has been made then really has. I've been avoiding the tarmac around the gates for the most part as that will require me to learn how those areas function and are designed as well as figure out how to get the SC4 plugins to accomplish those things. Taxiways are going nicely though as I get more comfortable navigating the SC4 plugins to make them and I'm understanding better and better the reasons RL airports are laid out the way they are. Here's a picture of the current status of the airport's primary tile, Kg, with points and projects of interest added and a description of the projects to be done.

Click for full 2100x1532




For good measure, here's the next segment of the multi-highway, continuing south from the previous picture. The next junction to the south is the Noropolis beltway, highway 230, which I forgot to mention in the last update is also being considered for an express/collector implementation. The interchange should, at the least, give 4-way access between the two sets of collector lanes and between express lanes north of the junction and express lanes east and west. Local access is also intended to the extent possible in such a complex interchange. Those characteristics mean that, besides my general procrastination of the amount of work such a project requires, I think it's best to wait until the next NAM to tackle it. I'll leave it to you to guess what unannounced features I'm waiting on 

click for slightly larger


The other project I'm hoping to do soon is a proposal for how the express-collector section of highway 85 should be constructed, exit by exit, hopefully preventing me from wasting a lot of time building a system that doesn't make sense

Until next time.... 

[art128]

This is seriously going to be the best airport ever made in any Simcity.


Thank you Arthur--that's one of the nicest compliments I've ever had here   It would be better if you joined me in building it though 

-N

[Haljackey]

Fantastic stuff here.

Very creative express/collector transfer!


Thanks Ryan   Does the basket-weave make sense in that place, given the layout that's already been shown and the location of the major interchange about a mile south?

-N

[MandelSoft]

Could someone get Noah a needle? He really needs to weave his C/D-motorway system

I've voted for Passenger and General Aviation. Putting military here too is a bit overkill; they better can have their own landing strip and base somewhere else.


Thanks Maarten    I think Passenger and General Aviation will be the way to go--makes sense and now has a crushing majority in the poll. That raises the question though of where to locate an airbase given NORO's difficult terrain. Can runways be near mountains or does that create too dangerous of wind patterns? We could have underground hangars built into the mountainside if we located the base in a place like that....

-N

[isii94]

That airport looks amazing! I'm wondering, though, if that many runways are really necessary since they can't be operated independently. I'd probably have gone with fewer of them and spaced them further apart.

I'll leave it to you to guess what unannounced features I'm waiting on

I could think of two... (not going to say them, though) 


Thanks very much and a warm welcome! I saw you looking around earlier and was hoping you would post   Why would you suggest spacing further apart? The closest separation, between 9R/27L and 9C/27C, is based on the distance between the newest runway at Seattle-Tacoma and the closest runway to it which was designed so that both could be used simultaneously in poor visibility conditions. The number of runways is admittedly rather high, probably in part because I enjoy over-engineering things like highways and airports, but I don't think it's excessive. For example, Denver has 6 runways running in two perpendicular directions and serves only a ~3M metro area. You're certainly right that 2-4 runways would be a more common layout though. I'm planning on making major changes to the layout here so if you have a proposal for where the runways could be located I'd love to see it.

-Noah

[Gugu3]

Noah cannot say anything really. This project is incredible!
Is there a main train line planned to get to the airport or near it?

Cheers
Guglielmo

[isii94]

I'm not an airport expert, but from some observations most runways are spaced 1.5 to 2.5 kilometres apart for independent operation.

Here is a quick drawing of what I would probably have gone with:



18C/36C is for takeoff only, 09R/27L is for landing only, and 09L/27R is for both takeoff and landing. To me this seems to be the most efficient solution 

[art128]

I'm not an airport expert, but from some observations most runways are spaced 1.5 to 2.5 kilometers apart for independent operation.

I've worked at Orly airport in the maintenance department. The facilities were really close to the runways. The runway in the pic is used for both landing and take-offs.
Nice spaghetti, btw.



My only remark concerning the plans of the airport is the use of civil and commercial at the same airport. I've already talked to you about it on skype but I'm going to say it again. I believe for private aircraft and small planes it's better to have a smaller single runway airport closer to the city center (like London's City) and keep the big international one to larger airplanes and freight traffic.

Also a separate AFB (Air Force Base) is a good idea as well.

On the plan, instead of civil aviation on the n°9, I'd put aircraft parking areas, hangars....

[noahclem]

I liked the spaghetti too--thought it was a pizza 'til I clicked though    Anyway, thanks for writing that up and nice work. I'm not sure if there's a difference between "independent operation" and the ability to use both for landing simultaneously in times of low visibility, however I've noticed newer very large airports where space is essentially no object, such as Denver and Dubai World, using runways 1km or less apart. As for the takeoff, landing, and directional configuration you suggest, wouldn't direction depend on which way the wind was blowing? I think that more capacity for landing is required than for taking off, though I'm only basing that off of reading that a common configuration at Chicago O'Hare is to use three parallel runways for landing and another for taking off. In any case the plan offers nice ideas.

Arthur, do you think the maintenance areas I proposed are too far away? Notice there are three areas noted. They tore out the small, private airport in central Chicago while I lived there so I had they impression they were more of a high-value-real-estate-wasting, city-center-polluting, elite-serving, thing on their way out of fashion. Having another, smaller airport focusing on smaller craft sounds kind of nice but it probably won't be much closer to the center and small craft will probably be served at this airport as well.

Guglielmo, the main train line running north from the center was planned to run on the west side of the main airport tile or possibly the east side of the next tile to the west but my goals for rail are to have the main line run as close to the passenger terminals as is feasible. Not sure how numbers 13 and 14 went missing from the picture....

Here's where I'm at with the "runway bridge":

Is based on Atlanta's airport but with significant differences: the "bridge" is perpendicular rather than diagonal, doesn't have separate crossings for the taxiway and runway, and has X markings to make it clearer it's not to be used as a taxiway. I hope to eventually use overhanging models for the tunnel portals, taxiway, and some pavement, as well as possibly the runway. That mainly because the 6S-OWR3 transition bothers me though I don't much like the mixed tunnel portals, especially where they cause weird elevation changes. McDuell's Terraformer trick could smooth out the wrinkles but would also expose more "holes". I raised the runway & taxiway 2m where they cross the highway and there is now a very gradual slope heading east to accomodate that. It seems to be fairly common for runways to have a small slope to them though I've not seen anything more than ~10m.

[art128]

I think the way the maintenance area is planned is fine, really. Though if you could find a place where it's not separated from the terminals by a runway. When i was working we had to cross several taxiway in order to get to the self at lunch, same thing morning and evening before and after work.
I'd scrap n°7. There's no need yet for a sixth runway.

One thing I'd do if I were to build this airport: I'd use the other style taxiways which are only in the LE as far as I know. In my opinion they'd look much better with the wide runways and such a big airport.

[noahclem]

The maintenance workers should have easy access to the terminals via a system of roads that go under and around runways when they are obstacles. I don't plan any "at grade" runway crossings for roads.

no7 was just an idea and not a probable one. Making the airport even larger could be a fun project down the road but doesn't really make sense now, not least because the more complex things are the more difficult it is to understand how the airport would actually work. I like that there's been more discussion lately about runway usage plans. I keep trying to read more but finding information on it is fairly difficult. I guess it would be good for me to go through how the runways would operate under various wind conditions to check on the sensibility of the layout and take holding patterns into account.

Which taxiways? Are they included in another download? There are some things I like quite a bit about the ones I've been using but also a number of things I wish were different and missing features. I quite like the way Xannepan implemented his, as overhanging models, but they have almost no options and done line up well with the other mainstream ones. 30-degree high-speed exits would be great to have too though I've been spacing my taxiways too close to the runways for those in some areas.

This was a kind of fun bit of info on taxiways: http://www.slideshare.net/pedrohectorcarreonazcue/geometric-design-taxiways

I experimented with the Japanese terminals and while they have some very nice qualities I don't think they make sense to use for this airport. The degree of customization available with them is less than with others and they appear harder to integrate with the other bats. L2 OWR3 in a weird LHD setup makes the drop-off/pick-up part of them less appealing as well.

[Gugu3]

Really curious to see some more development! That was exactly my question Noah!the closest the rail is to the airport the better it is...was thinking about airports such as Gatwick in London where the rail goes literally next to the airport.

[noahclem]

I took a break from the runway and taxiway layout stuff to work on parking and railways. For the most part things went really well. I found a route for the rails that I'm quite happy with and a train shed that, after a quick visit to PIM-X and LE, fit the location exactly how I'd hoped. I also think the parking is mostly complete. I used Xannepan's airport set for the first time and while it doesn't have as many options as some it looks fantastic and it tolerates a gentle slope pretty well.

The inside of the terminal area is built in 7.5m steps:

L1 - 295m: Terminal 2 departures, (roughly) top level of southwest interchange
L0 - 287.5m: T1 & T3 departures, T2 arrivals, all gates, runways, etc
L-1 - 280m: T1 & T3 arrivals, T2 pedestrian and people-mover/tram access, highest point of sloped parking garages
L-2 - 272.5m: T1 & T3 pedestrian and people-mover/tram access, lowest point of sloped parking garages, main entrance/exit highway level, approximate level of rail station
L-3 - 265m: Transportation needing to pass under highway including railway and road, planned green space
L-4/-5 250-257.5: Area surrounding planned pond in green space, possible networks passing under L-3 transit routes

The transit besides the new rail has been in place for a while with the layout pretty firmly restricted by my choice of terminal bats and the limits of the NAM. I would have liked to finally use a monorail (or even elevated rail stations) but don't know how it could fit with with those arrival/departure area bats from xannepan. The tram/light rail will at least connect with economy parking, rental car places, and other airport services on the other side of the motorway with a possibility of also having a tram route going further.

I'm confused about when puzzle pieces can be placed adjacent to tunnels but I tested it with the 6S-F ramp (see picture) and it worked but when I tried it for real it wouldn't work, I guess because it was flipped 180 degrees. Still working out how to connect the ramps leaving the area....

[RustyXL]

The airport and transport networks in the area look really good so far. I've got some input about runway usage. I've flown multiple times from DFW airport and it has two pairs of parallel runways that are only about 350 meters apart that are in use simultaneously. Usually the runways closest to the terminals (17R/35L and 18L/36R) are used for take offs, while the other two (17C/35C and 18R/36L) are used for landings. This leaves about 2 km between the closest runways used in the same direction (inbound or outbound) which is close to the distances that isii94 observed. This is my recommendation for runway usage at NIA:


BTW, which runways are you using? I don't think I've seen them before.

[Earwhyckque]

This airport is becoming really nice! Most airport sets in SC4 tend to look best in simple, small designs (parking lot + bus station + small terminal building) but I am confident this complex setup will turn out fine! Personally, I find it quite difficult to design those transport areas surrounding terminal buildings, as they tend to be a spaghetti of roads, parking lots and tram/train lines but it seems you will succeed in cramming everything into you land side area. I can see why you are happy with your train shed (I use the HSPR hub myself which works quite okay as well) which becomes a nice part of your multi level design approach.

I would refrain from using too many highway roads inside your terminal complex, though. At some points they tend to look too 'speedy' for such an area. Although I never use RHW as those are not my taste, I prefer roundabouts and avenues at an airport, which sometimes leads to interesting road layouts as well. You might want to have a look into this option, which works quite well at my own little amateur airport

Keep up the good work! I will follow the progress closely!

[art128]

This is looking really promising.

[feyss]

Woooh. It looks like an ambitious project.

Usually, when i see an airport in this game, I never like the road or the rail that lead to it. But here, you seem to have made a special effort on this matter. I can't wait to see the final result. 

[Dantes]

I do not know much about airports. However, I know the airport Leipzig-Halle. There is a great design. Look this:




Maybe someone you build such a "runway bridge". The airport operator in SimCity may like to use this attraction all. 

[mrsmartman]

This is definitely one of the most ambitious attempt in building a mega-airport.

[noahclem]

I just wanted to pop in to thank everyone who's posted lately, especially the most recent ones but also especially everyone who's been contributed in the last few weeks. It's great to see there's enthusiasm for this project and the multi-player spirit and I hope this place will continue in the spirit of 3RR and offer the best chance for tackling the greatest projects that are too much for one person or can be done so much better with a little help from a friend. And the hope isthat also going to spin off to and be more widely available.

I'd hoped to release something nice for my birthday, and while I can assure there is some great stuff in the works I wasn't able to get anything into releasable shape. I'm dealing with the busiest season for work and severe back pain but can also assure you I'm minimizing how much that slows me down. More details and real replies to come. For now I'd love it if anyone that's enjoying this project would take a minute to have their voice heard. Kippis!