Subway to Rail Transitions?

[nathkel]

I recently installed a subway in a Manhattan-type setting where the subway serviced a thick city on an island. I needed the subway line to come off the island to suburbs on the mainland, but was unhappy with the appearance of the drop in altitude under the bay. I know it doesn't make any difference as to the usage of the subway, but still, it was the aesthetics of it.
So as a solution, I wanted to bring the subway up to the surface, cross the bay on a bridge, then revert to underground when it got to the other side. So it seemed like the best solution was subway to standard rail line to rail bridge to rail to subway...
Except in all of NAM, there's no transition like this. There IS a subway to elevated rail, but the slope was horrible (my poor citizens would be on a roller coaster!), and I'd have to build an Elevated Rail bridge across. This is one more step than I need to take.

Does anyone know of a subway-to-rail transition piece or lot? Or maybe there's a better way to get what I want...

BTW, I did not want to regrade the shore line on either side, because I had invested a lot of time "painting" the landscape to really beautiful shores and banks, including water tinting and surface painting (thanks to JENX) among many other things. It was bad enough that I have to destroy and de-zone an industrial area to get the exposed subway to a beachhead!    <= crybaby

[matias93]

Maybe this could help you more: http://homepage2.nifty.com/caribou/slope.htm


Is a set of ramps for rail and light rail, made by Caribou. Specifically, you should use the 1x9 ramp, that changes subway to el-rail.

And this both: http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/14932-hillside-glr-to-subway-transition-by-morifari/ & http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/11413-hillside-el-to-subway-transition/

A pair of hillside tunnel entrances for el-rail and GLR to subway.

I would also recommend you not to mix light and heavy rail: not only those changes are taken by the game as stations (and then as bottlenecks), but also speeds, costs and types of cargo are incompatible.


More than that, if you are pointing to realism, consider that, even if the game draws subway tunnels almost on the surface, real subway tunnels could be from under-surface to 30 meters (~90 feet) underground, and even more when avoiding obstacles like water bodies. You can safely draw subway lines under in-game water and keep realism.

[nathkel]

Excellent research! I could definitely use the better slopes and I know the tunnel lot will help to. Thanks for digging around!

[AsimPika3172]

Maybe this could help you more: http://homepage2.nifty.com/caribou/slope.htm

404 File Not Found???    Maybe was deleted....

[matias93]

Happily, Yarahi found them on Simcity China!


http://www.simcity.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=38542&extra=page%3D3%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D27


You have to register on the site to download, though; unless you are fluent on Mandarin, some online translator would be necessary...

[APSMS]

I should see if I can find that guide I used to get me there.

Navigating is unintuitive, but the most difficult bit is registering, and using Google translate (at least for me) broke the site tools/layout so that the buttons were in the wrong spot, so I had to have the page open twice, once translated with the other still in Chinese, and register on the Chinese page that I couldn't read.

I think nos.17 NCGAIO may have a guide hidden somewhere. Let me see if I can dig it up.

EDIT: Found it. Turns out it was referenced by NCGAIO but written by Moen. Referenced Here. Located Here.

[cogeo]

Sorry, but I don't like these very much, because they are not realistic. Traffic is converted from rail to subway, and this in a... tunnel entrance. There's no track continuity between (heavy) rail and light rail in reality either. And the "transition" is not really a network tile, but instead a transit-enabled lot. The same could have been achieved by using a normal rail station (terminal, but not necessarily), and putting a subway station just next (there are rail stations with built-in subway service connections too). Rail stations provide also parking facilities, which makes it possible to serve a bigger area (park-and-ride), and not just the housing within walking distance from the station. Your sims can drive to the station (not just walk), and ride the train, or even the subway.

If you don't want to build an interchange station, it is possible to direct the track underground, ie build a (true) rail tunnel for a part of your city, and emerge it to ground level just before a station. It is possible to do this, even for flat and low-lying terrain, using/making custom made slope mods and the Hole Digging Lots (part of NAM now). An alternative could be the Underground Rail Puzzle Pieces.

[mgb204]

Did you know there are "GLR" (or ground-based El-Rail) bridges in the NAM? So if you use a subway to GLR transition, you can make use of a GLR bridge to cross the water.

[matias93]

Sorry, I jumped over that. Yes, the transition is unrealistic but can be easily tweaked. Use the SC4Tool (or the reader if your skills allow it) and change the heavy rail connections to el-rail (without forgetting to change the lot capacity according to your traffic simulator, to avoid creating a bottleneck.


I think the converter transit enabled lot is the only way to do this, considering maxis did the same with their own el-rail ramp. An alternative approach that uses the same technology would be to terraform a tunnel entrance and run el-rail or GLR through it, up to a tunnel portal (the ones by Morifari, for example), and go from there with subway.

[AsimPika3172]

Happily, Yarahi found them on Simcity China!


http://www.simcity.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=38542&extra=page%3D3%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D27


You have to register on the site to download, though; unless you are fluent on Mandarin, some online translator would be necessary...

Sound bad to me...   Can't speak Chinese or Mandarin because I only speaking Malay and English here....
I hope someone download that plugins and upload back into SimtroPolis or ScEvotion or any websites.

[mgb204]

Happily, Yarahi found them on Simcity China!


http://www.simcity.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=38542&extra=page%3D3%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D27


You have to register on the site to download, though; unless you are fluent on Mandarin, some online translator would be necessary...

Sound bad to me...   Can't speak Chinese or Mandarin because I only speaking Malay and English here....
I hope someone download that plugins and upload back into SimtroPolis or ScEvotion or any websites.

I'd imagine very few of us here speak/understand Mandarin either... but with the use of an online translator (such as Google Translate), usually you can get by. The problem with uploading these files to either the STEX or LEX is that the original author (owner) of these files would need to give permission for the files to be hosted elsewhere. In many cases where these sites suddenly disappear, the creator has simply moved on and possibily not even contactable to gain permission. As such, I wouldn't hold your breath for these files to be on either exchange in the near future.

[Tyberius06]

That is what the community should change.
I don't know anyway.
If someone moves on, and doesn't care anymore his/her creations, I don't think they would care about, if these files would be uploaded the still existing exchanges. Of course, an email will be sent to their last known contact address, and if they doesn't like the action they can say that, and the community can remove/lock these contents, but other way it would be just a waste of everything letting to lose these creations.
But it's just my oppinion.
Your proposal, mgb, was very good over at Simtropolis, about updating the contents/readmes, fixing errors (I haven't read all the responses and posts, so I don't know what was the end of that discussion). Every old readme's which contains STEX links are useless since the last Simptropolis Site Update.
The funny thing when I ran into modified/relotted files which have a STEX dependency link, and the problem is not the broken link, rather that the original upload no more available on the STEX at all...
And that's bad...

By the way, you're right. With google translator "easy" to getting access to the simcity.cn. But for example lots of Caribou's creation had been lost when his personal page went down. I have most of them I guess, but I don't know if they has been uploaded elsewhere. So lucky that his El-Rail Stations are on the STEX, and these transitions are on simcity.cn. But the rest?

It's like a library, I guess (little different, but not too much), the community responsibility to keep the knowladge alive, even after the original creators died or moved on...

[Seaman]

This reminds me of the evergoing discussion about abandoned bicycles. At least in German cities, you may find old, rusted and abandoned bicycles with a similar looking bike lock. The rail companies sometimes try to clean up the bike racks at their stations and have some trouble to remove the old bicycles. So it's no wonder why many people don't hesitate to steal the obviously abandoned bikes. The law is clear about it, so it's definetly stealing and we should simply not do that (also: how long does it take for a bike to be labeled "abandoned"). I think it's natural to have mixed feelings about it, but our hands (should be) tied.

[Tyberius06]

Well, I don't think that we can compare the two things. You're talking about abandoned bicycles, and people who stole them for their personal use. In this case, uploading these files, bring them back to the light, it's not the same at all, than stealing an abandoned object. They were publicly released some day for anyone and everyone (free of charges), the bicycles are not. Maybe 10 years ago when there were different parties (BSC, SIMPEG etc) who didn't want the things mixed up saving their own personal/team reputation or "brand", it had an importance, but nowadays these things have no sense anymore. There are no different parties, yes, there are a few teams alive, but thats all... The community is getting smaller and smaller, this is an old game, and there is a small group of people who still make custom contents. Very small group.
And about abandonment: the main difference. You can leave your bike for years and yes can be said that is abandoned, but with SC4 files we are talking about closed websites, and lost items, and bringing those lost items back to the light. If those websites still would have been working (without technical issues and etc), we wouldn't talk about this at all. This is not the same.
And don't need to put them into the exchanges, a cloud-drive would be enough.

[Seaman]

I know you cannot compare that directly. I just wanted to point out the ethical implications of this balance of interests.

Honestly, two hearts are beating in my chest, as I do fully understand your point there (this isn't the first discussion about this for SC4 content), but still want to keep up at least a feeling of decency.

Maybe you are right and the changeing circumstances justify to discuss this topic (again). We just should keep in mind that this thread might not be suitable and (as I understand) the last major discussion about this went out of control, bringing quite some trouble to our happy little world of SC4 devotees.

[Tyberius06]

OFF

You're right this isn't the right topic for this discussion.
But honestly in short, I would be listening/reading the complaints of the original creators (if they would complain at all), and after that I would remove the contents if that is necessary, than let these creations get lost.

Well, I have a pretty decent collection of custom contents (I started collecting everything back in 2012-2013, I still could downloading nearly everything from the original PLEX on SimPEG, but for example I haven't been there on the Far Eastern websites, which has been closed since then), so I'm pretty happy, but I can run into CJ's and anybody can aswell (Gobias Terrain mods accessing issues last year for example), where you see some nice building, and ask where you can find that...
"- Well, it was made by X.Y.
- That's good, where can I find that, I tried STEX, LEX, etc...
- Oh, you won't... The original creator no longer active, the site went down... However I have the files, but according to the community rules, I don't have the rights to upload or share the contents. But you can enjoy those pictures..."

I think this is just unfair, and cruel. But another example. You have a copy of Shakespere's Romeo and Juliet, and suddenly every other copy in the world disappear. You don't have the right to distribute (not even free), share, copy the novel, and if you have an accident, and lose the only left novel, it's gone forever, but I guess it's your responsibility to keep the novel alive, so that's overwrite the rules in that case, because according to my oppinion after this point it's no longer about decency, it's about legacy.

[Tarkus]

But honestly in short, I would be listening/reading the complaints of the original creators (if they would complain at all), and after that I would remove the contents if that is necessary, than let these creations get lost.

We're encountering more and more "abandonware"/"orphan file" situations in this community as the years go on.  Today happens to mark the 14th anniversary of SC4's release, which took place on January 14th, 2003.  With the age of the community, and how far flung long inactive creators are (and the relative degree of anonymity of internet communities), it's become incredibly difficult in many cases to follow the standard protocol.  There have actually been quite a few situations on both sites already, where we've had to make judgement calls and allowed files under unusual circumstances--the Gobias files are the most prominent recent case, but there's quietly been many others over the years. 

To quote Grace Hopper, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission."  If we are serious about keeping this community going, we are going to have to start taking Hopper's words into consideration more often.  I'm not saying we should make everything a free for all, but there is a middle ground out there where we can reasonably respect creators' rights and the original spirit of the rules, without allowing the rigid adherence to those rules to lead to the SC4 community's extinction.

I did want to get that in there, and I will have more thoughts later, though I agree that this probably isn't the best place to continue this important discussion.

-Alex