RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

[Wiimeiser]

These four three ramp pieces are deprecated and obsolete, but currently have no DRI or flexramp alternatives. Also, the 6S A2 flexramp is broken to the point of being completely unusable.

EDIT: It appears the 6S piece does have a functional DRI. The other three... The RHW-2 pieces are already used by the 6S DRIs.

[woodb3kmaster]

I'll let Ganaram give a more definitive answer, but at least three of the ramps in your picture have DRI alternatives (the 8S D2 ramp is the only one I'm not sure of). You can drag the 6S A2 DRI by following the drag pattern in the top right of the following diagram (it doesn't matter what order or direction you actually drag the different parts in):



As for the RHW-2 D1/E1 ramps, Ganaram demonstrates how to drag them in this video (starting at 1:22).

[GDO29Anagram]

These four three ramp pieces are deprecated and obsolete, but currently have no DRI or flexramp alternatives. Also, the 6S A2 flexramp is broken to the point of being completely unusable.

All four of them have draggable equivalents; if you remember from the dev videos I have from many posts back (and from Teaservid 1; link above), you'll basically find the patterns for... three of the four ramps.

And from other posts back...

http://www.youtube.com/v/Vhcj2I_z76s

I think I just simplified the D1 and E1 ramp patterns by 70 billion light years...

If you wanna compare it with the pattern I had for it before...

http://www.youtube.com/v/xVK19zljqfE

That video also shows some of the patterns I had planned for the Type X2 ramps as well, but with that newfound innovation, it means that I can recycle some of the old patterns and even remove the need of that stub remover method thingamabob doohickey.

All of the old prototype D1 and E1 patterns are basically now the D2 and E2 patterns.

You can drag the 6S A2 DRI by following the drag pattern in the top right of the following diagram (it doesn't matter what order or direction you actually drag the different parts in):

I had to edit your diagram to help illustrate the 8S-specific DeDRIs (Dedicated DRIs), which are set apart from the RHW-2 OrDRIs (Overridable DRIs), RHW-4 DOrDRIs (Dedicated+Overridable DRIs), and RHW-6S DOrDRIs. Red arrows indicate what you need to do to get X2 variants of X1 ramps; blue arrows indicate connections needed for connecting these ramps (not AB1) to RHW-8S (the 8S E1 is the biggest oddball since it defies all prescribed patterns; it only uses the blue arrows as shown and none of the black arrows).



If this is still too confusing, then you're gonna have to wait for teaservid 8; I got delayed by a thunderstorm in starting it, so you're gonna have to wait a bit.

[belfastsocrates]

Goodness! That is rather lovely indeed. I haven't really experimented with RHW as I like the compactness of the maxis highway (I know) and the condensed highway access options, which suit my more 'British' urban design style.

I do want to have a good crack at RHW though as it does look a hell of a lot better. I just need to work on creating tidy and compact slip roads and flyovers

[GDO29Anagram]

In case you missed it in the NAM 33 PR support thread, there's a mystery feature in the RHW. Can you guess what it's used for?

http://www.youtube.com/v/EKOclR8lMOY

[roadgeek]

Transitions?

[NielsC007]

I've been trying to get this RHW 8C E1 Level 2 Exit to work. I tried to both drag the transition and plop down a flex transition. Am I the only one having this issue or have I found a bug?

[GDO29Anagram]

I've been trying to get this RHW 8C E1 Level 2 Exit to work. I tried to both drag the transition and plop down a flex transition. Am I the only one having this issue or have I found a bug?

It's a bug with the models; the paths are correct, but the models and textures aren't.

Since this is a bug with the NAM 33 Prerelease, it's best to report it in the prerelease support thread instead of here.

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=17038.0

[Wiimeiser]

Any non-deprecated alternative to this?

No?

Guess I'll just do this then:


EDIT: FlexFly doesn't support L0 RHW-2 in any way whatsoever.


Also, how long's it gonna take to fix stuff like this?


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This looks like it's on life support...

EDIT2: What are you doing, Escher?

Escher, stahp.

I bet Boss Cass did this:


EDIT3: Either I did something wrong, or this piece's tiles are swapped around:

Maybe all these texture glitches are a LHD thing?

[Gugu3]

I don't get why you wanna go from a road to an avenue to then revert back to mis actually
It doesn't make much sense to me...if you wanna do something similar just go from RHW2 to RHW4 and then transition form RHW4 to mis?

As far as I know this is just a pre release so issues are expected to come out at this stage...good of you to report them but think there's a specific thread for this...and think we just need a bit of patience for this glitches and issues to be solved

Cheers
Gugu3

[selles]

EDIT: FlexFly doesn't support L0 RHW-2 in any way whatsoever.

I think I found a solution to this one. If you use the disconnector piece on the missing flexfly tile, then use RHW and click that same spot, the flex fly should be back to normal. Then drag the RHW under the flexfly, and it should work!



Now, for a problem that I've encountered, I can't seem to get this filler piece to work.



It doesn't even plop in the same orientation as the preview shows.

[GDO29Anagram]

I don't get why you wanna go from a road to an avenue to then revert back to mis actually
It doesn't make much sense to me...if you wanna do something similar just go from RHW2 to RHW4 and then transition form RHW4 to mis?

Because there's supposed to be a draggable RHW-2 Type D1 Ramp... and there is... from the very first video in the entire series.

http://www.youtube.com/v/b2PeDUDlwvw

[jdenm8]

Maybe all these texture glitches are a LHD thing?

It's definitely an LHT thing, hence why it wasn't fixed before the PR. I've brought it up in the internal dev threads twice now and nobody's acknowledged it. It'll probably be up to me to fix it. I know what needs to be done and how to do it, it's just the matter of actually doing it. I bought a Wii U a few weeks ago and have been playing through Wind Waker HD.Then I'll probably play through Splatoon, Twilight Princess, Bayonetta or Hyrule Warriors.

Aka, it'll take me getting annoyed enough with it.

[GDO29Anagram]

It's definitely an LHT thing, hence why it wasn't fixed before the PR. I've brought it up in the internal dev threads twice now and nobody's acknowledged it.

It's all a super-complicated super-interconnected issue with the overhangs and textures that we've squirrelled away under "Unconverted Overhangs". I'll open a new issue for it, anyway.

[DJSun1981]

First off all, I love the new Pre-relase of nam 33, but will be there in the final Version  a

static puzzle piece: 45° Diagonal - orthogonal from L0 to L1..L2.....

[Wiimeiser]

Because there's supposed to be a draggable RHW-2 Type D1 Ramp... and there is... from the very first video in the entire series.

I thought I was missing something...

[woodb3kmaster]

First off all, I love the new Pre-relase of nam 33, but will be there in the final Version  a

static puzzle piece: 45° Diagonal - orthogonal from L0 to L1..L2.....

No, there won't be one of those. The features that are in the NAM33 Pre-Release are all that will be in the final release, only with all the (known) bugs fixed.

I also don't think any new static puzzle pieces will be added in any future releases. The NAM Team is moving away from static puzzle pieces in general and replacing the existing ones with FLEX or draggable equivalents. What you're requesting could end up being implemented as a curved Flex-Height Transition, but I don't know if/when such a piece will be added to the NAM.

[DJSun1981]

Good to hear that...and is there a way to make diagonal and diagonal-ortho ave/street/oneway over diagonal/ortho RHW and Railway and ortho/diagonal railway over diagonal/ortho RHW

And Flex/dragable parts to connect NWM/ave/street/oneway crossings to RHW

[APSMS]

Um, @DJSun1981:

OK, here's the deal. NWM may or may not have supported crossings with RHW. All the crossings would be ground level NWM, elevated RHW. Anything you get to work is a bonus, anything that doesn't isn't currently supported, so don't ask about it.

Rail viaducts are in a transition state; likely the only support you'll get for them with RHW is the current puzzle-pieces that are currently available.
You can optionally drag rail under most (I think all) elevated RHW. I would say experimentation is key here, but I expect full support for Elevated RHW x Ground Level Heavy Rail

Connections to RHW are mostly limited to the game's base networks, like Road and OWR base. Again, NWM interfaces are probably not supported (like OWR-1), and anything you get should be considered a bonus. All the ones from the past are still supported, like Avenue into adjacent RHW-4 stretches, and OWR-2 into MIS, etc. No new ones have been added that I am aware of.

All of the game's base road networks like street, road, avenue, etc. at ground level should be able to pass under elevated RHW without issue, at any standard (non-fractional) angle (well, maybe not diagonal street, but a test would be needed). The key here is to experiment, as there are a lot of draggable features in the NAM, and it isn't always easy to list out every single one that is supported (nor would it probably be a terribly helpful list).

[GDO29Anagram]

Connections to RHW are mostly limited to the game's base networks, like Road and OWR base. Again, NWM interfaces are probably not supported (like OWR-1), and anything you get should be considered a bonus. All the ones from the past are still supported, like Avenue into adjacent RHW-4 stretches, and OWR-2 into MIS, etc. No new ones have been added that I am aware of.

There's also the RHW-4 to TLA-5 and RD-4 transitions, the RHW-6S to RD-6 and OWR-3 transitions, the RHW-6C to TLA-7 and AVE-6 transitions, and RHW-2 to NRD-4 transitions, and all of those have been around even before the Monolithic NAM.

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Be forewarned: this next part is a giant block of text.

Any sort of RHW intersection or crossing is subject to the exponential problem of having to override such intersections. Dirtroad (unoverridden RHW) and another base network is completely fine and can be supported using a RUL1 entry. Overridden RHW times a base network is also fine (albeit with a little bit of RUL2), but once you start crossing an overridden RHW with another override network, things get messy really fast. In the shortest way I can put it, you have to override an override an override an override; that is, you first have the base RUL1 intersection to contend with, then you have both overrides overriding the intersection into one of two degenerate states, then you need to keep both degenerate states from destabilising, and then you need to override both degenerate states into the desired override, and the worst part is that you don't know which degenerate state it'll be in.

If you take an L1 RHW-4 × GLR crossing, for example, it works like this. First, the base intersection of Dirtroad×Lightrail (yes, that's what RHW and Elevated Rail is called) needs to be overridden, and because of how there are two overrides fighting over the same intersection, it could override into L1 RHW-4 × Elevated Rail or L0 RHW-2 × GLR. You never know which one it defaults to.

Next, you need to be able to override both situations because you don't know which it could go; you need to override both the L1 RHW-4 × Elevated Rail AND the L0 RHW-2 × GLR crossings into the final crossing: L1 RHW-4 × GLR.

That's not enough. You need to also keep it from degenerating to its intermediate forms, so there also needs to be lots of stabilise code to handle that. This is why it's so difficult to even get an RHW×RHW intersection to work right, because with this many layers of overriding, it's impossible to get it to work without having to write lots of code.

This could be made a lot easier if we could somehow create independent RHW network for each RHW width and height; that way, each intersection would behave the same way as crossing an RHW with a base network. The one problem then is that you'd have about 33 RHW buttons, one for each height and width of RHW.

The next viable solution that I've considered is to add in a helper piece for each RHW width and height, which would then cut out a lot of the required override code for such complex intersections and crossings. Such helper pieces would have to be added in using RUL1, which is how the FlexFlys work. Since these helpers would already default to an RHW intersection, there wouldn't need to be a lot of override or stabilise code required; it'd work much the same way as trying to intersect an RHW-4 with the Road network.

Fun fact: prior estimates put the amount of code needed for the FlexFlys at about a million lines of code, and from past experience, this is where RHW begins to choke the NAM. With the FlexFlys being almost entirely all anchors, it currently takes a tenth of that amount, 100000, to cover every possible FlexFly, all the way to L4. In comparison, the last four FlexFlys, which have the exponential override stabilisation issues as I explained already, took 50000 lines of code. That's an average of 13000 lines of code per FlexFly, and each of the new FlexFlys takes a little over half of that amount, and a lot of it is shared with the 45-degree FlexFlys.