Underground BATs Problems

c.p. · May 10, 2014, 07:09:42 AM

It's hard to tell in that tiny picture, but I don't think the models have to be changed at all. Just make new LODs. Either simple boxes or simple cylinders. Make the top of the LODs flat all the way across. Make the bottom of the LODs at ground level (z=0). The game doesn't care whether the center of the gmax model dips below the ground plane or not. It cares about the LODs. Keep the LODs above the ground plane, and you should be fine.

vortext · May 10, 2014, 07:12:21 AM

Quote from: c.p. on May 08, 2014, 03:18:58 PM
I was successful with my RKT4 test though (i.e. one prop consisting of two models, with one of them casting a shadow, and one of them not.) If that's of any use, I can post more info, but I think it's not what you're looking for here.

Actually, this seems like a rather neat solution to me. The sliced models could be re-assembled in RKT4 to have proper shadows whilst being slope friendly too. Moreover, Frank could still put the RKT4 props into families to his hearts content. Seems like a win-win to me really, unless I'm missing something. ?

c.p. · May 10, 2014, 07:18:39 AM

Quote from: vortext on May 10, 2014, 07:12:21 AM
Quote from: c.p. on May 08, 2014, 03:18:58 PM
I was successful with my RKT4 test though (i.e. one prop consisting of two models, with one of them casting a shadow, and one of them not.) If that's of any use, I can post more info, but I think it's not what you're looking for here.

Actually, this seems like a rather neat solution to me. The sliced models could be re-assembled in RKT4 to have proper shadows whilst being slope friendly too. Moreover, Frank could still put the RKT4 props into families to his hearts content. Seems like a win-win to me really, unless I'm missing something. ?

I don't think it's the best solution to this particular problem, but it is a solution to other problems. I was thinking I'd start a new thread for this when they create the new BAT help section.

Edit: And I can confirm that it does work with families.

mrbisonm · May 10, 2014, 09:51:58 AM

Quote from: c.p. on May 10, 2014, 07:09:42 AM
It's hard to tell in that tiny picture, but I don't think the models have to be changed at all. Just make new LODs. Either simple boxes or simple cylinders. Make the top of the LODs flat all the way across. Make the bottom of the LODs at ground level (z=0). The game doesn't care whether the center of the gmax model dips below the ground plane or not. It cares about the LODs. Keep the LODs above the ground plane, and you should be fine.

Well, I tried this suggestion first, because it sounded simple (it is as a matter of fact), but it didn't change anything. There is one model though that has a part of it's "false shadow" cut off.......?

I'll continue to try other suggestions this evening, now I've got to do some seedings ion my fields (irl).

Fred

FrankU · May 10, 2014, 10:12:58 AM

Quote from: vortext on May 10, 2014, 07:12:21 AM
Quote from: c.p. on May 08, 2014, 03:18:58 PM
I was successful with my RKT4 test though (i.e. one prop consisting of two models, with one of them casting a shadow, and one of them not.) If that's of any use, I can post more info, but I think it's not what you're looking for here.

Actually, this seems like a rather neat solution to me. The sliced models could be re-assembled in RKT4 to have proper shadows whilst being slope friendly too. Moreover, Frank could still put the RKT4 props into families to his hearts content. Seems like a win-win to me really, unless I'm missing something. ?

I know that you can use RKT4 for seasonal props: meaning two models appearing alternately, but I was not aware of the possibility to add two models and show them together at the same time. Where can I find info on that?
OK, I should search Simtropolis first....

c.p. · May 10, 2014, 11:32:13 AM

I wan't able to find much information either, which is why I did the test. The quick answer is that you create an RKT4 with 16 reps, just as you would with a semiseasonal or other 2-state prop. However, both groups of of 8 reps begins with 0x00000000. The TGI of the first set of reps would refer to the above-ground model. The second set of reps would refer to the below-ground model. Only the first model will cast a shadow. You can also add additional sets of reps (of 8 reps each) if you want a state change (such as if you have "abandoned" version of the model). The rep-sets for the state-change models begin with 0x00000001, and they should be in the same order as non-state-change models.

I'll make a more detailed post about this, hopefully sometime this weekend.

Edit: I forgot to mention, only the first model will show up in PIM-X, but both will show up in the game.

mrbisonm · May 11, 2014, 08:04:32 AM

Ok, I have tried everything that was mentioned here and anywhere else and nothing works, all last night ('til 3AM) and all morning today. I spent hours and hours of trying other things too, without success.
Splitting the model in half seems to be impossible because every time I try, gmax tells me that an unknown error has occured and will now close the application. And this at least 20 times.........

Then it asks, do want to try to save it, I click yes and then the freaking thing tells me that it cannot be saved and gmax closes to desktop....nice. I am so freaking sick and tired of programs that only work "parttime. I've had enough! Spent all my weekend on this, instead of finished my other models.

So, I suppose it is impossible to get rid of the "false shadow"....wow, great achievement.

What can I tell you besides saying Thanks you all for trying to help me again and believe me all your knowledge, willingness to help is actually very much appreciated by me. Everytime you help, I learn something, even if it doesn't solve the problem, and especially with this matter, I had the best of the best BATters standing beside me.

That alone was worth the "stress".

FrankU, you want those models?..... well I guess you have to live with them as they are, because there does not seem to be a valid solution. Sorry.

I will continue to find a solution, not today nor this week though (had enough of this for the moment being)

Who knows, maybe someone or even me, find a way one day to have that useless shadow dissappear for good. (there must certainly be a way)

Fred

FrankU · May 11, 2014, 10:11:59 AM

Hi Fred,

I can estimate your frustration. But I can assure you: the models are great and I can perfectly live with this flaw, like I can live with a lot of other flaws in this game.
There are many props that have the same problem and I hardly ever hear someone complain. Maybe now we know why.

So please continue with the other projects and let me fill the lots with your manure props!

cogeo · May 11, 2014, 02:42:12 PM

Before giving up, I would like to ask you again. Did you check the link I posted (to Frank's thread)? The model does have a sizable underground part (the stairs), yet it doesn't show the negative shadow (the white one only, the others weren't fixed at the time the pic was taken). The ingame subway station doesn't have the problem either.

Also take a look at my post here.

mrbisonm · May 11, 2014, 04:14:26 PM

Quote from: cogeo on May 11, 2014, 02:42:12 PM
Before giving up, I would like to ask you again. Did you check the link I posted (to Frank's thread)? The model does have a sizable underground part (the stairs), yet it doesn't show the negative shadow (the white one only, the others weren't fixed at the time the pic was taken). The ingame subway station doesn't have the problem either.

Also take a look at my post here.

Maybe I don't ynderstand what you mean, but I did try the LODs above ground only (see my last pictures) and it didn't do anything like your subway.
The rest of the post in FrankU's concerns more FrankU, since I do nt touch reader, PIM and all those other confusing (to me) tools. I have no idea how to turn off shadows, I only work with gmax.

There must be something else that you to get no false shadows or I am doing something wrong, but don't know what. I don't think that there are dozens of ways to make a LOD, right?

Fred

mrbisonm · May 12, 2014, 06:49:55 AM

How do I turn off shadows with ilive reader?

vortext · May 12, 2014, 07:12:45 AM

Open the prop exemplar and set 'Is Ground Model' to false (0x00).

FrankU · May 12, 2014, 07:14:08 AM

Hi Fred,

Open the prop exemplar in Reader (I hope you know how to do that...)
Find the entry "Is ground model" and change the property from True (0x01) to False (0x00).
If I am correct this property also has other effects, like the ability to stop automata, but as we do not put our manure props in the middle of a road we do not care about these.

Frank

mrbisonm · May 12, 2014, 09:41:25 AM

Thanks vortext and Frank. I will do some testing today, couldn't sleep, have to fix this........there must be a solution!!

Edit: Yes , I know a little more than the basics of the Reader.It is the PIM that I only know how to make props with, the rest I simply don't undrestand since there are no instructions nowhere how to.

Rayden · May 12, 2014, 10:28:47 AM

Quote from: mrbisonm on May 12, 2014, 09:41:25 AM
Edit: Yes , I know a little more than the basics of the Reader.It is the PIM that I only know how to make props with, the rest I simply don't undrestand since there are no instructions nowhere how to.

I don't know if you notice Fred, but there is a very thoroughly manual Barbie did with great effort and dedication for PIMx - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2257

mrbisonm · May 12, 2014, 02:26:54 PM

Quote from: Rayden on May 12, 2014, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: mrbisonm on May 12, 2014, 09:41:25 AM
Edit: Yes , I know a little more than the basics of the Reader.It is the PIM that I only know how to make props with, the rest I simply don't undrestand since there are no instructions nowhere how to.

I don't know if you notice Fred, but there is a very thoroughly manual Barbie did with great effort and dedication for PIMx - http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2257

Ho!| Thanks a lot Rayden, didn't know this one. Thanks for the link. I will have a look.

Fred