CAM without the farming job increase (solved)

[Teddy]

I'm wondering if it's possible to have CAM without the increase in farming jobs?

EDITED TO ADD
this thread
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=17441.msg508951#new
contains some of my thoughts.

I will copy some things here to prevent duplication of questions:

My objective is to simulate the proper relationship that towns have with their rural areas. That is, people drive in to town for work, and people who live in town, do not drive out to farms for work. The town itself has more jobs than people.

As such, the idea that this

has little to no unemployment causes me to begin crying and praying for the end of the world to mercifully take me away.


In an ideal world, each 8X8 farm would be easily supplied by a 1X2 or 1X3 residential zone (meaning only 62 or 61 tiles remain IR, as the others are now R) Like this:



I'd like to be able to do this while still having as many other CAM features as possible. Ideally, I could just edit a single value in a single file (LOL!) and it will reduce the jobs as needed, I am willing to edit 100 values in 100 files if that's what it takes, but I'd rather not turn farms into placing puzzle pieces like I do for RHW. Perhaps I could simply remove the entire IR aspect of CAM and keep the other aspects? Or is this (likely) impossible?

[InvisiChem]

Okay, going to put a whole bunch of stuff in here. Several imperfect solutions, but it's part of the game limitations.

It is indeed possible to bring all IR values back to vanilla, just some reader work. In the a__CAM folder is the CAM_2.1.0_Buildings.dat file. Open it in Reader, select tree and expand the section titled "Other". There are buildings here and a stray field lot here. Remove all IR related versions, leaving the Commercial and Landmark buildings alone. This brings it back to vanilla IR values.

This will break the query on the farm fields again. In vanilla SimCity 4 RH, farm fields employ 1 sim per tile. CAM fields employ 1 to 3 depending on labor intensity. For instance, lettuce is very labor intensive in the real world. It really does take more than 3 workers to harvest a lettuce field this size. Pasture only requires the normal 1 worker. In vanilla, you just could not see these workers. Since CAM shows the totals in the query and the Census now, the field usage is now very obvious.

If you wanted to, since the building file contains all field entries already separated for you, you could just edit the Capacity satisfied and set the 2nd entry to 0x00000000. This would be 0 employment.

Next, it is possible to place your R zones with the IR zones, but the effects are a bit strange. R zones will not transfer workers directly to IR, so you will have to have at least one IR zone touching a road. FrankU put out a set of Stage 0 farms that could serve a neat purpose here. Zone a 1x3, 1x2 or 2x2 R lot, then zone IR around them in that fashion. Be sure to use Maxis blockers to block all the Maxis IR Lots and only Franks lots will grow. They appear to be all fields, so it will at least look like what you were originally trying to accomplish.

Some of these R are still going to want to go to town to work and some of the R from town will still want to work in the fields, but that is a pathfinding issue that I do not think could be solved with the simlation limitations.

These are the only solutions I can see to allow anything close to your proposals without rewriting the whole game. It will at least look right  The puzzle piece ploppable Field lots are an idea I may wish to include in future versions. Be really cool anyways. lol.

[Teddy]

Okay, going to put a whole bunch of stuff in here. Several imperfect solutions, but it's part of the game limitations.

It is indeed possible to bring all IR values back to vanilla, just some reader work. In the a__CAM folder is the CAM_2.1.0_Buildings.dat file. Open it in Reader, select tree and expand the section titled "Other". There are buildings here and a stray field lot here. Remove all IR related versions, leaving the Commercial and Landmark buildings alone. This brings it back to vanilla IR values.

This will break the query on the farm fields again. In vanilla SimCity 4 RH, farm fields employ 1 sim per tile. CAM fields employ 1 to 3 depending on labor intensity. For instance, lettuce is very labor intensive in the real world. It really does take more than 3 workers to harvest a lettuce field this size. Pasture only requires the normal 1 worker. In vanilla, you just could not see these workers. Since CAM shows the totals in the query and the Census now, the field usage is now very obvious.

If you wanted to, since the building file contains all field entries already separated for you, you could just edit the Capacity satisfied and set the 2nd entry to 0x00000000. This would be 0 employment.

Next, it is possible to place your R zones with the IR zones, but the effects are a bit strange. R zones will not transfer workers directly to IR, so you will have to have at least one IR zone touching a road. FrankU put out a set of Stage 0 farms that could serve a neat purpose here. Zone a 1x3, 1x2 or 2x2 R lot, then zone IR around them in that fashion. Be sure to use Maxis blockers to block all the Maxis IR Lots and only Franks lots will grow. They appear to be all fields, so it will at least look like what you were originally trying to accomplish.

Some of these R are still going to want to go to town to work and some of the R from town will still want to work in the fields, but that is a pathfinding issue that I do not think could be solved with the simlation limitations.

These are the only solutions I can see to allow anything close to your proposals without rewriting the whole game. It will at least look right  The puzzle piece ploppable Field lots are an idea I may wish to include in future versions. Be really cool anyways. lol.

Excellent, thank you.

I only place the Residential zone after the farm developes. I like having my houses right beside the farm buildings, but that building could end up anywhere within the zone (that has road access)

By reader, do you mean the ilive reader? Also what do you mean by "break the query"

Also, my tests indicate each tile does not create a worker - HOWEVER - after reading you say that, it occurs to me that one worker per tile that touches a road actually does seem to match what I see, precisely.

Due to this I think I have an alternate solution: could I not edit the CAM lots to only accept workers if that tile is touching a road?


Assuming this is not a thing I can do, I'm still trying to understand your instructions:

"just some reader work"
You mean iLive reader? I have that.

"There are buildings here and a stray field lot here"
Am I editing the field as well as the buildings, or just the field. Also, should I be editing other non-stray fields? Where are those?

" Remove all IR related versions"
*scratches head* if I understand, this removes all the CAM IR stuff, leaving only the Maxis IR stuff... right?

" since the building file contains all field entries already separated for you"
This I don't understand at all, sorry

" just edit the Capacity satisfied"
Capacity Satisfied? What does this do? Is that the jobs?

"and set the 2nd entry to 0x00000000"
Ah. Yes. This is the sort of code-ish stuff that is over my head right now. Thank you.



EDITED TO ADD

"If you wanted to, since the building file contains all field entries already separated for you, you could just edit the Capacity satisfied and set the 2nd entry to 0x00000000. This would be 0 employment."
... I think I see what you are saying. I'm going to rush to re-download CAM, and open this file, to see if this means what I think it does. If so, this fixes everything.

[Teddy]

"If you wanted to, since the building file contains all field entries already separated for you, you could just edit the Capacity satisfied and set the 2nd entry to 0x00000000. This would be 0 employment."
... I think I see what you are saying. I'm going to rush to re-download CAM, and open this file, to see if this means what I think it does. If so, this fixes everything.

I literally clapped out loud when I saw it worked. This fixes everything! Thank you, thank you, thank you. There were only 10-20 things to edit, and once I figured out how to do so, the process went very smoothly. Keeping jobs inside the buildings themselves will ensure that I do get *some* jobs out of rural areas, but not enough, which is exactly what I wanted!

Now on to getting some CAM eLots and seeing how that goes.

[InvisiChem]

Glad I could help. That was a very different request from what I am used to. Usually it's about abandonment or too few jobs. lol.

If ever it becomes about zone size, this is being fixed in the next version. Installation just became a lot easier too. Thank you for using the CAM and I would love to see a MD or CJ in the future. It will help me with future development of the CAM.

Cheers and enjoy.

[Teddy]

This is for a "lets play" of sorts, some cities will be named after members of another community I am part of; I will be taking ample pictures.

Right now I'm struggling to get all the dependencies, and the dependencies for the dependencies, so that I can download the starter CAM eLots, so that I can get started!

[compdude787]

No, do not worry about downloading the CAM starter packs. Those are way more trouble than they are worth. The purpose of them is simply to convert lots made before the CAM's 2007 release to be CAMpatible or be CAMeLOTs. However, there have been many CAMeLOTs made in the past 8 years to the point where you really don't need those starter packs. For more info, see this SimTarkus blog post. The CAM itself has no dependencies.

If you want a list of packs of CAMeLOTs, Tarkus also compiled a list of some things that you can download here.

[Teddy]

No, do not worry about downloading the CAM starter packs. Those are way more trouble than they are worth. The purpose of them is simply to convert lots made before the CAM's 2007 release to be CAMpatible or be CAMeLOTs. However, there have been many CAMeLOTs made in the past 8 years to the point where you really don't need those starter packs. For more info, see this SimTarkus blog post. The CAM itself has no dependencies.

If you want a list of packs of CAMeLOTs, Tarkus also compiled a list of some things that you can download here.

I had to stop last night with only some things downloaded, and realized just how much work it is. I do want more variety in my town, but I think it might make more sense to download things individually as needed. For example, I dislike the fact that small (IE 1X1 or 1X2) commercial lots, especially in a small town where there are only a few of them, are similar. Hence downloading just a few of those would/could satisfy me.


EDITED TO ADD
is getting individual (not packs) of lots as simple as searching the LEX? Will it be clear which ones are and are not compatible with the CAM?

EDITED TO ADD
I just found the power search button, so nevermind, I can take it from here!