Problem with NAM installer and multiple plugin folders

[vershner]

I have multiple plugin folders, launched with the -userdir argument.
When I updated to NAM 32, it asks where I want to install, which is fine - I selected one of my plugins folders, but then it ran Cleanitol against the default plugins folder. I needs to run cleanitol against the same folder it is installing to.

I now have a lot of cleaning up to do.

[mgb204]

Whilst I won't go as far as saying you are running an unsupported setup, when you've made customisations at a fundamental level, you can't assume everything will work correctly with it. I'd advise in future making sure the folder you want to install NAM into is in the default location where the installer expects it (default being My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins) and install the NAM there. All you have to do is two folder renames and perhaps moving the folder, it's perhaps not ideal, but the installer is a complicated beast and making it work in every possible configuration is practically not possible.

If cleanitol runs and does something undesirable, you can find a log of the Cleanup and a backup of all removed files for each instance of Cleanitol that was run. Using this recovery in such circumstances should make restoring everything very easy.

[vershner]

I appreciate that my configuration is non-standard, and I was well prepared to have to reorganise things to get the NAM installed, however the confusing part is that the installer asks for the installation path then ignores that information later on. It would be better off not asking for a path at all, because selecting anything other than the default will result in a failed install.


I did indeed use the Cleanitol restore script, and then rewrote it to work on the correct location.

[mgb204]

I can understand where you are coming from, perhaps it was an oversight in design, however, technically-speaking I'm not sure if it would be a quick fix or otherwise. Obviously this could be considered a bug, I am not personally able to say if or when it would be fixed though.

Selecting a new path shouldn't give a failed installation if the problem is just limited to running cleanitol, I do believe that's an optional process in the installer you can deselect.

[vershner]

It seems this isn't entirely fixed. The NAM installer removed several stations, claiming to be replacing these with updated versions. However, some of them don't appear to have been installed. Marrast's being one example - filename: "marrast_prs_compact_1x6.dat"

Can you tell me where the NAM installer should have installed the updated stations?

I can see the LOTs for Marrast's stations within the installer, under $[124]\MTA Station Overrides\Rail Stations\Marrast\
but these don't seems to be in my plugins directory.

[mgb204]

I suspect the problem here is that the original stations have been dat-packed, whilst Cleanitol can find the exemplar as residing in the dat, there is no way of the installer replacing the lot file contained within with the new one.

As for how cleanitol handles this, I don't know if it would move the DAT file or simply load the new lot file after it? In any case if you can handle basic operations in the reader, you could simply open your dats and replace the lot files with those manually extracted from the installer as that's probably the quickest fix.

[vershner]

The Marrast station is distributed as a dat, I haven't dat-packed it myself, so the NAM installer presumably has a method for updating dats. I'm not sure how this would work though, unless the other files were also distributed in the NAM. They're not with the lots though. Presumably in a dat somewhere. Do you know where?

I'm sure I can fix this with the reader, but I need to know how many other stations might have been affected.

Where should the NAM installer have put them?

[mgb204]

The BSC Updated version (I've no idea about other versions), contains only SC4Lot files. There are two DATs, both prop mega-pack dependencies containing the models for the stations. The NAM installer doesn't modify existing DATs, this isn't as easy as it might sound either, by and large it's NAM team policy not to include stations and models, where it's done is usually confined to additional NAM networks only.

The provided lot files are intended to replace the originals from the BSC version that work with the mega-packs, so in reality all you need are the included lots from the NAM installer and the two dependencies (Marrast MEGA Pack vol01 & vol02) for everything to work. However, by the sounds of it you are using an old version, it's important to ensure these are removed completely prior to using the updated files to avoid conflicts.

[Good Guy]

I have Simcity 4 Deluxe nd downloaded it from kickass torrents... I tried to mod my game so i downloaded nam from sc4 devotion.com ....... when i extracted nd opened my file, nd tried to install it, it asked that my game is not updated..... so i updated it to 1.1.638 with sku1....... I also checked the sizes of my files nd they matched but still when i clicked the install button on nam, it had the same problem that my game is not updated...... plz help me....!!

[mgb204]

Sorry, no support is provided for non-genuine versions of SC4, the NAM installer will fail if you do not have the EP1 update installed, which itself requires a legitimate version to work. Without the EP1 update a number of unpatched bugs can cause problems with your game experience, at under 4€ recently on gog.com and about 6€ for the CD version new from Amazon I'd recommend buying a copy.

[vershner]

The BSC Updated version (I've no idea about other versions), contains only SC4Lot files. There are two DATs, both prop mega-pack dependencies containing the models for the stations. The NAM installer doesn't modify existing DATs, this isn't as easy as it might sound either, by and large it's NAM team policy not to include stations and models, where it's done is usually confined to additional NAM networks only.

The provided lot files are intended to replace the originals from the BSC version that work with the mega-packs, so in reality all you need are the included lots from the NAM installer and the two dependencies (Marrast MEGA Pack vol01 & vol02) for everything to work. However, by the sounds of it you are using an old version, it's important to ensure these are removed completely prior to using the updated files to avoid conflicts.

That makes sense, thanks for your help. There's one further issue though - In the installer there are four copies of that station lot. They have identical file names but a few of the settings in the exemplar file are different. I guess this is to go with the different traffic simulators, but how can I tell which to use?

[mgb204]

It seems there are some different capacities for these stations, that said I can't work out a fool-proof system to select the ones you need since all I can see are identical files. The higher-capacity ones should have the Transit Switch Traffic Capacity set to 60,000 or 89,000 for the double-track versions. If the capacity is 54,000/79,000 you can either delete/try the next or simply manually type in the higher capacity. If you prefer the lower capacity stations, then simply do the opposite and look for the lower cap versions. There are still duplicates here as far as I can tell two of each are high and two are low.

[vershner]

Looks like there must be something else missing. A lot that allows the others to appear perhaps?

I tried all four Marrast stations and none of them appear in the rail menu. I also have the same problem with the SimGoober freight stations.

I've restored the original (non-NAM) files now. I can always raise the capacities myself.

[mgb204]

Sorry, you are quite right, these lot files (in the NAM) only contain replacement Building Exemplars, therefore it's necessary to use the lots from the original files. In which case I've no idea how this is achieved replacing the original files, they would need to be an override to work. If you are handy with the reader it's quite possible to remove the old buildings exemplars and LText files (that's all the NAM includes) and replace them with the equivalents from the NAM files. If you do decide to manually adjust the capacities don't forget to also edit the Transit Switch Entry Cost propertly, that should be 0.0069 for these stations.

[z]

That makes sense, thanks for your help. There's one further issue though - In the installer there are four copies of that station lot. They have identical file names but a few of the settings in the exemplar file are different. I guess this is to go with the different traffic simulators, but how can I tell which to use?

Very deep magic is at work here.  The four different copies of the exemplars have nothing to do with the traffic simulators.  They have to do with the original exemplar type, the NAM standard exemplar type, and then each one of these two modified to support DAMN, making a total of four exemplars.  The proper version is automagically selected.

When I get time, I'll try to answer some other questions, such as with Cleanitol.  I think we're dealing with some basic limitations of Cleanitol here, but I'll have to check.