Terrain Grass NAM

[mgb204]

Some of you may have seen my latest posts on Simtropolis/SimPeg, I'm belatedly including a thread here too for my latest project the SV NAM. In case you don't know, SV means Gobias' Sudden Valley HD Terrain Mod. The goal is to try and replace the Maxis grass on the transport networks of the NAM. Currently I've the basic Street, Road, OWR and Avenues mostly completed. I've also got a couple SAM and RHW networks and a bunch of misc. overrides for common pieces.

Here's an early shot to show you what to expect:



I'm really pleased with this so far, for me it's the missing link for terrain mods. As you can imagine, options can get very out of hand given the sheer numbers of textures. To begin with they will support RRW, US/EU (default) textures and LHD/RHD, however so long as progress remains at it's current level hopefully that will be expanded thereafter.

[vortext]

Hm yes I saw it on Simpeg too and have been pondering the issue since. First of all - and I'm pretty sure I've said this before - there's the matter of terrain height, i.e. texture changes according to altitude. Though the SV mod doesn't vary that great a deal, the issue remains: what looks good at one altitude might look weird at another.

A naggin' feeling remained and I even thought about it this morning during a 30 min bus ride - staring out the window watching the grass go by. . 

Then it hit me: if you really want the terrain textures to show through, wouldn't it make more sense to bake the sidewalk into the transit textures and just use transparent sidewalks instead?

What I figured is maybe you could use the inverted alpha masks to apply the sidewalk underneath the road. Granted it may be a bit more work to cover different sidewalk options but I'm sure you can handle the batch processing - besides it'd work for any terrain mod at any altitude. And as an added bonus you could actually have more sidewalk variety since transit textures respond to zone density as well.

[mgb204]

We discussed this before, I hadn't forgotten, I've done some initial testing, the effect you mention is indeed visible, plus it's not so much that the textures blend "seamlessly" there is a slight difference with the $$ textures, which are the best terrain match of the three. That said, I am picky, but to a point, overall I just love the look of these textures, I'm particularly happy with the park, it all fits together with the terrain mod really well. I could certainly live with it as it is, using different textures for different zoom levels is a nice idea, but in practice it's simply too much work for this many textures.

As usual you propose an ingenious solution here, in principle that would indeed give better results. From my work with sidewalk mods though, I needed to create templates for every individual texture, this is not such a problem when a typical 0 wealth textures exists for the job, but overall I suspect that would make things harder to do. For the most part I'm not having to create the textures right now, that is automated with a fantastic tool Memo was kind enough to let me have access too. Another problem with this approach, it means fostering a particular sidewalk as part of the mod. Whilst my automation is pretty high, especially once I've got the resources and templates setup, remaking it for different sidewalks is long-winded due to the sheer packaging requirements of such a mod. Then on the other hand it's not terrain specific, so that's a big plus right there. It's certainly something to consider, I think its worth a quick test to see how it works in practice at least, thanks for the input.

[Shadow Assassin]

Definitely a massive undertaking, but it makes the road textures look heaps better. I'd suggest, though, making the source files public so that it can be modified as required.

Wish you all the best with this, though.

[MandelSoft]

I once wanted to do something similar for NORO, but I never found the time and motivation to do it (since it is a lot of work). Seeing this project makes me happy.

Such a massive undertaking does deserve a K-point. One is sent by yours truly

Best,
Maarten

[GDO29Anagram]

I have a question, though. If the difficulty of texture making is dependent mostly on what tools are available, what tools are you guys using?

I ask this because Rivit pointed me to a tool he made several years ago that does the wealthing for you, and get this, you can change the wealth grass to be whatever you want.

[mgb204]

Basically the tool from Memo takes the 1 wealth texture, uses the alpha on whatever grass textures I decide and overlays the 0 wealth over the top of it, instant grass replacement in bulk.

I've had a few discussions in this area with Rivit too recently, I never found GoFSH until the last couple weeks, but certainly the tools for me are everything. The SEN was a lot of work to get going, but I wanted to be sure I could change the sidewalks whenever I liked in the future without doing it all over again, so I looked to maximise my automation from the start.

So for the sidewalk mod, I had to make a set of blanks (by hand) where every piece had the original baked-in sidewalks removed. Armed with these, Photoshop Actions can be setup to batch process all files that are opened to add the sidewalk layer to every one. So the real work was making the repository and organising it so that the right colour correction was used for a given piece.

Much the same problem occurs with this mod, before I can work properly I need a repository of every NAM texture. The problem is some textures are still from the Maxis originals (mostly AVE textures), some from the Base Nam, others from the Cosmetic Retexture, then various European textures. If I just simply mirror every NAM file with the new wealth textures, there would be a lot of overlap although it would remove this problem. So a large part of my workload involves getting all into groups so that I can package various options together later. This is no small job, I'm just finishing off the Maxis base networks now.

Now the tools do all the actual work for me, I export the files from the Reader as FSH files, bulk convert to PNG (I use PNG2FSH Mk II for this) and I have a system that does this so that all filenames are in the format 0x88888888.png so that the ID's are re-imported automatically (otherwise you've got to rename them manually). Once the textures are finished, I use PNG to FSH Batch to create a DAT file from the PNGs, which also handles MipMap and Alpha maps for me, then I have a DAT ready to go as an override.

As I understand if, Rivits program can work with the FSH files from the reader directly and handles the ID's/MipMaps also, it seems a nifty tool but once you commit to one way of working, change does not come easy.

As for releasing the dev files, there is no way to provide blanks like there would be for the sidewalk mod, my repository is basically a personal version of the NAM one. However, Maarten (thanks for k-point ) released something similar which is very useful, I should be able to add a Euro version to the available options when it's complete.

[mgb204]

I'm a little confused what exactly is happening here:



I know my replacement textures are showing, as the outer parts have been changed, but for some pieces I can't seem to get the transparency to show my sidewalk in the areas circled in red. I've checked the textures, created a new DAT from my textures and even loaded it with nothing but the NAM, same thing every time. I looked through the OWR-Roundabout plugin, I've covered every texture there too? These aren't puzzle-based so I don't understand what is replacing the inner roundabout parts and adding the maxis sidewalk back in (all textures have transparency). Can anyone help?

[vinlabsc3k]

It seems to be a problem of rotation, because the north(?) texture is right.
Do you made all four rotation for the incriminated textures?

[memo]

Possibly, you've installed the NAM plugin that hides OWR arrows from OWR roundabouts. It works by overlaying the road texture with an S3D that looks the same as the texture below. The S3D links to a different FSH file though as it needs to be colour corrected, so you need to replace this texture, too. The FSH on the S3D does not include any grassy bits, which is why your replacement is visible below.

[belfastsocrates]

This is a superb project. I can't tell you how pleased I am that your mods and tweaking have improved both the visual appearance of my cities and their realism.

This new project is a lot of work Robin and I wish you all the best with it! Looking forward to seeing the progress and of course the finished result.

[mgb204]

Possibly, you've installed the NAM plugin that hides OWR arrows from OWR roundabouts. It works by overlaying the road texture with an S3D that looks the same as the texture below.

That explains the behavior I'm seeing here, I knew something must be overlaying it, I was digging through the T21s last night trying to track it down! Thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction, already wasted much time here . Actually looking at the files, I can see some other places where my textures are being overlaid this way too...

This does present a small problem though, if the sidewalks are baked-into these items, changing the grass is no problem, but then it is sidewalk dependent, I may have to change my approach slightly for such pieces, for example keeping the inner white ring here of the OWR roundabout.

@Belfastsocrates: Thanks for your comments, I'm glad you are enjoying my work. I've not had a chance to update the SEN mod, but I'm literally 3 pieces away from complete NAM coverage in Sandstone now. Once I've got the initial files out of the way for the grass mod (hopefully this weekend), I need to update my repository to adjust to my new processes. Then I hope to finally add US support for the SEN down the line, but in the meantime I will update the SEN with all the new pieces I've been working on.

[mgb204]

So after a few long nights, I have finally finished off and packaged up the initial Euro Release of what I'm now calling the Terrain Grass NAM Mod. Go and download it on the STEX, unless you don't want your cities looking like this that is (click for full size):


<sup>Berner Oberland Version


Sudden Valley Version


Appalachian Version</sup>

The US version is also complete, it might be a day or two but it will be uploaded shortly.

Next up, gotta bridge the gaps between my sidewalk mod and this and then hopefully a RHW version.

I would like to upload this to the LEX also, can I ask a few questions since I've never done this before?

Do I need to do anything special to be able to upload files?

Separated into 6 versions (EU, US then the three grass variants) these mods come to around 12MB-19MB zip files. In some breif testing, 7zip was able to best regular zip files and a 19MB file is then only 10MB. Can I upload a 7zip file, or is WinZip better to avoid angry downloaders who have to download a small open source tool to unpack them? Just trying to be responsible over potential bandwith/storage matters.

[noahclem]

Congratulations on getting such a great project to the point of release    It's certainly welcome on the LEX as-is, though certification is a separate process normally requiring a LEX candidacy or membership in a team approved for LEX-certified uploading.

As for the RHW project you mention, converting the texture-based networks to model-based ones would seem a lot easier way to do it. I use it myself, thanks to Mandelsoft's help, but haven't been able to sell the NAM team on adopting that system yet. I'd be happy to share the knowledge and files I have if you think it might be a solution suitable for you

[swordstalker2008]

Looking forward to the US version!!! Please be soon lol

[belfastsocrates]

Congratulations indeed! I'm looking forward to giving this a go. Well done!

[pxljce]

  Wow! That makes a huge difference and must have been a whole bucket load of work. Thank you so much, I recently started using the Gobias' Sudden Valley terrain mod (and loving it) and this will make it even better.

[mgb204]

As for the RHW project you mention, converting the texture-based networks to model-based ones would seem a lot easier way to do it. I use it myself, thanks to Mandelsoft's help, but haven't been able to sell the NAM team on adopting that system yet. I'd be happy to share the knowledge and files I have if you think it might be a solution suitable for you

This would be new territory for me, but would that enable transparency for the RHW networks, that's totally what I'm after, I'll send you a PM .

When it came down to it, Vortext's solution would probably give better results on the other networks, but the difference between the workloads was insurmountable. I'm currently working with a well known community member on a possible way to automate the whole process of sidewalk/grass changes, it may be that our discussions lead to a more permanent and wide-ranging solution which would enable that approach to be more manageable in the future however.

Looking forward to the US version!!! Please be soon lol

How about now, is that soon enough (link) . Just need to get the final Single-Wealth variants done and I'll include them on the LEX at some point.

Thanks for all the comments, it's always nice to know your efforts are appriciated 

[vortext]

Yeah I figured it might be a bit more work and this is pretty awesome anyway! 

Also great to hear some kind of tool may be in the works, that'd be really sweet! 

btw nice pics as well, wouldn't mind seeing more of those! 

[mgb204]

Just another quick update: All of the unified-single wealth versions have been added tonight and can now be downloaded (same links as before).

There are a few early bugs I need to catch up with (no one's reported any), but I should be able to update everything for a Lex Release by the end of the forthcoming week.

@Vortext: As for the pictures, it's about time I made some updates for my CJ, but nothing is ever finished, I keep getting distracted by questions like "I wonder if I could have the grass I want there?", so building is somewhere last on the list of priorities. One day I'll feel satisfied enough to sit back and say I'm done with changing my game, now let's play it, but who knows when that will be, especially when I am tempted to make new things .