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Train stations problem specfically freight

Started by Cire360, June 04, 2012, 12:21:18 AM

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Cire360

I hope this is posted in the right location, but I am having a problem with Freight train stations, specifically that trucks simply won't use them if there's a way out of the city for them.  I took a lot of time and effort to design my transit system, and its behaving rather oddly.  I basically have a section of the map with a river running through in a kinda L shape, on one side i've placed my residential zone with all the parks, schools and what not that they need to thrive and grow, coming across the water via a bridge they can easily get to work at either a commercial or hi-tech zoned areas, to the left is commercial and right is hi-tech.

Linked in from the hi-tech zone is a rail line, which runs to pretty close to the center of the zone, and crossing over and through the commercial side before exiting out to another city within my region, the line does have multiple pickups, for example it crosses over to my residential area where it has a passenger train station and one also exists on the same line in residential and hi tech zones, so that they can use the train station to get to work if they so choose.

Now getting back to my problem, as  i stated before I have a freight train station located almost dead center of my hi-tech zone, and was kinda boggled when i checked its usage it was 0, seemed rather odd to me, so i broke the key exit points preventing the trucks from having any other exits, or for that matter any other traffic from coming in, and checked again the freight train station sure enough had its usage spike up to 80 to 85%.  So i reconnected the exits and checked and it dropped to 0%. 

I could see it that maybe the hi-tech factories that were furthest away might be tucked elsewhere but all those that are closest to that freight train station i would think should be using it, instead they prefer to drive some 10 blocks, get on the highway drive across into the residential zone, where that high way ends, drive another block and get on another high way to truck it outta the city? 

Surely this can't be correct behavior for freight handling?  Am i missing something?  I do have NWM, and real highway project installed.

Please help, thanks in advance.

Cire360

I took a snapshot of a different city which the same effect is occuring in.  I highlighted where the actual freight train station is located with  a red circle, notice how the currently selected hi-tech factory is sending its freight via truck right past the station.

I can't see my own images so if the image below don't work heres the URL http://markstl.dyndns.org/images/mycity.gif


RickD

I can't see the images.

In SC4 freight takes the shortest route to the tile border. If your train route is only a little bit longer, than the road, it won't be used.
Another problem could be that custom passenger stations or other TE lots are blocking freight trains.
My name is Raphael.
Visit my MD: Empire Bay (My old MD: Santa Barbara County)

mike3775

Are you using the Maxis freight stations(the server for the pictures does not respond, try creating a free account at www.photobucket.com)?  I have NEVER had success using Maxis freight stations. 


Cire360

Actually yes i am using the maxis freight stations but Rick was right, they were not using it because 'thier' route was shorter, when taken into effect the rail's distance.  I feel like an idiot now, however with all due respect I don't personally agree with how its handled, i woulda thought that they woulda used the closest means of getting rid of thier freight all together, when I shortened the line length by creating multiple paths in the rail the trucks all of sudden started to use the freight station.

I am still having problems unlocking the grand central station thou.  I have a city with around 400k population, 416K commercial jobs, and a freight train station being used at 101% capacity and its not unlocking.  Furthermore I have 65K Hi-tech jobs, and have yet to receive that space station reward.  Guess i'll keep at it.

Thanks all so much for your help.

mike3775

glad it worked out for you.  The game simulator is odd thats for sure.

I have had residents drive all the way North along avenues to go to a neighbor city to work when there was not only a maxis highway express highway(with only 2 exits in the city) and a RHW-10 going into that city(with multiple exits) and they would not use those two highways at all and instead would take the avenues with the stoplights every other block to commute to work.  But once I demolished the Ave connections to the city, the highways took off.  Put back int he connections, highway traffic dropped to nothing again.  It always cracked me up to see things like that, considering I would always take the highway over surface streets if it faster

Cire360

No matter what I try i can't seem to unlock the grand central station, i'm now at around 150% on the freight station.  Perhaps i'am using the wrong station to unlock it i'm just not sure.  Has anyone unlocked it?

mike3775

Quote from: Cire360 on June 05, 2012, 06:51:53 AM
No matter what I try i can't seem to unlock the grand central station, i'm now at around 150% on the freight station.  Perhaps i'am using the wrong station to unlock it i'm just not sure.  Has anyone unlocked it?

Do you have one Maxis train station that is over used?

IIRC in order to get the Grand Central Station, you need to have a R/C combined 170K population(which I assume is region wide because I get the GCS reward on my all Com cities all the time), and one train station maxed out.

Also I think you can also win it as a reward with a UDI mission involving trains

Cire360

Quote from: mike3775 on June 05, 2012, 07:00:05 AM
Do you have one Maxis train station that is over used?

Yes one maxis freight train station thats currently about 255%  It says actual usage is 5101, and its max capacity it says is 2000.  So i'm not sure if i need to get it to 300% to totaly max it out?  Theres 5 trains on the title bar when i query it, when it was 100%, they are slowly greying out as it climbs higher and higher.  I think around 300% they will be all greyed out.  Problem is i'm running outa land to build hi-tech factories on.

Quote from: mike3775 on June 05, 2012, 07:00:05 AM
IIRC in order to get the Grand Central Station, you need to have a R/C combined 170K population(which I assume is region wide because I get the GCS reward on my all Com cities all the time), and one train station maxed out.

I'm pretty sure i have that in the city this is taken place in alone, as The census repository vault says i have a total region workforce of almost 1m, at 975,097.  It also reports that my commercial jobs are at 805,120.  I dunno what i'm doing wrong.  other then that i need to get my freight station to maybe 300%, just not sure.

catty

Quote from: mike3775 on June 05, 2012, 07:00:05 AM
...Also I think you can also win it as a reward with a UDI mission involving trains

Grand Railway Station UDI mission
Train Station Tour using the Freight Train
3 Freight Train Stations > 20 rails

it may be as the Grand Central Station is a Passenger Station that it has to be a small passenger station that is maxed out

-catty
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

mike3775

Quote from: catty on June 05, 2012, 11:49:53 AM
Quote from: mike3775 on June 05, 2012, 07:00:05 AM
...Also I think you can also win it as a reward with a UDI mission involving trains

Grand Railway Station UDI mission
Train Station Tour using the Freight Train
3 Freight Train Stations > 20 rails

it may be as the Grand Central Station is a Passenger Station that it has to be a small passenger station that is maxed out

-catty

Thanks for clarifying Catty.

Incidentally Cire360, you need to have 1 PASSENGER train station nearly maxed out, not Freight station.  plop a maxis station anywhere on the line where its busy and once its over used, you should be offered the GCS

Cire360

Wee the passenger station worked, once it maxed out I got access to the grand central station.  Thanks so much for your help!!!!

I'm still having alot of problems dealing with traffic but its getting better.  I'm considering switching to mono-rail as I heard its the fastest means by which to move sims around, any thoughts or suggestions?

BTW I did use RHW for awhile, just found it really really hard to do compact complex interchanges, what I mean by this is that a clover leaf junction in RHW took about 4x more space if not more then the maxis one, also i found that generally working with RHW can be a bit daft at times, hit that bulldozer at the wrong spot and your in for a world of hurt.  However that really wasn't the issue it was the bottlenecks that you had to do for bridges that finally broke me from using RHW.  I have been thinking of using the network widening mod with ave but i'm not sure thats a good idea as surely i would think that a highway would be faster.  Seems kinda a toss up ie on one hand ave 6 lanes would handle much more traffic, and i would have bottle necks again at bridges, but highways would be faster, and require at least 2 highways to handle the same amount of traffic.

Any thoughts and or suggestions or setting up or handling my taffic issues?

mike3775

Quote from: Cire360 on June 06, 2012, 06:09:01 PM
Wee the passenger station worked, once it maxed out I got access to the grand central station.  Thanks so much for your help!!!!

I'm still having alot of problems dealing with traffic but its getting better.  I'm considering switching to mono-rail as I heard its the fastest means by which to move sims around, any thoughts or suggestions?

BTW I did use RHW for awhile, just found it really really hard to do compact complex interchanges, what I mean by this is that a clover leaf junction in RHW took about 4x more space if not more then the maxis one, also i found that generally working with RHW can be a bit daft at times, hit that bulldozer at the wrong spot and your in for a world of hurt.  However that really wasn't the issue it was the bottlenecks that you had to do for bridges that finally broke me from using RHW.  I have been thinking of using the network widening mod with ave but i'm not sure thats a good idea as surely i would think that a highway would be faster.  Seems kinda a toss up ie on one hand ave 6 lanes would handle much more traffic, and i would have bottle necks again at bridges, but highways would be faster, and require at least 2 highways to handle the same amount of traffic.

Any thoughts and or suggestions or setting up or handling my taffic issues?

Glad you got that sorted out.

I tend to minimize bottlenecks at bridges on RHW by using MHW bridges, as they are far easier to place(I have found if I canot place a RHW bridge, maxis will let me and even allow me to raise it until its high enough for ferries, something I can not do with RHW for some reason) and if I am using a RHW-10, I use the exit that gives 3 straight, 2 off option, then take the 3 down to a 2 and build 3 MHW bridges(and have the two outermost ones connect to the outer RHW-4 lanes and have the middle handle the two innermost RHW-4 lanes.  I may still get some bottlenecks, but not as bad as going to RHW-4 Bridges.

If you want a faster option for the train, install the High Speed Rail Mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1609) ( for windows) ( http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2787  - hotfix package for viaducts over GHSR).  But be warned, building this, and if you are having passenger rail congestion issues, this will solve them, but the problem will simply shift to this, as will some road traffic(especially around the stations)


Cire360

HSR is nice, i especially love that transit station that has 2 HSR connections as well as a rail and elevated rail.  I'm having problems getting the elevated rail to work however.  I got to thinking that I could have them come from the residential zone via HSR and then board to elevated rail which goes almost immediately to subway where they can then exit close to where they work, but for some reason they are walking to the nearest subway station instead of using the one that the station is connected too.  Any ideas?

mike3775

Quote from: Cire360 on June 07, 2012, 04:52:02 PM
HSR is nice, i especially love that transit station that has 2 HSR connections as well as a rail and elevated rail.  I'm having problems getting the elevated rail to work however.  I got to thinking that I could have them come from the residential zone via HSR and then board to elevated rail which goes almost immediately to subway where they can then exit close to where they work, but for some reason they are walking to the nearest subway station instead of using the one that the station is connected too.  Any ideas?

Subway is faster than Elevated.  Its weird I know, but thats what I have found out.

An idea would be to take the HSR to the end of the line, then force them to take the Elevated rail to a terminus near the subway.  Thats how I do it, otherwise I end up getting everyone on the HSR and nothing else.

Another trick would be to have two lines going in, one HSR and one elevated and have them both go to the same terminus station for Elevated Rail, again away from the sublines

threestooges

My guess, without seeing a picture of the exact area, is the number of stations involved.

Similar to the freight rail/truck issue earlier up the page, all traffic networks have a cost associated with their use in the game's simulator (think of it as speed: time it takes to cross any given network tile). Each sim has a starting max travel time they can "spend" getting to their destination; and as a result they will choose the route that gets them there for the lowest "cost." Costs go up as the network becomes congested, which is how other roads start to be used when a primary road gets clogged with traffic.

The other cost comes from transit stations themselves; each has a cost associated with its use (think of it in terms of waiting for the train) to switch between one form of transit and another. This is true for both getting on and getting off.

So what I think may be happening, is that the cost of that final El station adds enough to the trip cost that the walk to the subway is quicker than the El ride; even though the ride to the station itself may be faster; which I know can be frustrating when you're trying to get a network to function like you want it to.

Hope that helps.
-Matt