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Nam Network Types

Started by speeder, February 16, 2016, 04:37:20 PM

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speeder

The game default 13 networks has several exemplars with tables with 13 elements, to affect them somehow.

The default according to Ingred:

road, rail, highway, street, pipe, powerline, avenue, subway, light rail, monorail, 1-way road, dirt road, ground highway


My question is: NAM full install map these to what? is pedmalls a network? is highway and ground highway both Maxis highway?



I am asking because I want to mod the Commerce Cap relief, the game defaults to thsi:

road: 10,000
rail: 10,000
highway: 100,000
street: 0
pipe: 0
powerline: 0
avenue: 20,000
subway: 20,000
light rail: 20,000
monorail: 20,000
1-way road: 0
dirt road: 1,000
ground highway: 100,000


Those don't really match NAM capacities I guess, nor make much sense sometimes, for example I suspect the monorail, that is the fastest train connection, and in real world quite important for commerce, should get a bigger cap relief, streets should get a minor cap relief (instead of 0).

NAM has some networks that use one way roads no? It shouldn't have cap of 0 either...

Swordmaster

The cap reliefs are triggered by neighbor connections, hence the 0 for streets and OWRs. The network capacities are a different beast altogether.


Cheers
Willy

speeder

Quote from: Swordmaster on February 16, 2016, 04:48:18 PM
The cap reliefs are triggered by neighbor connections, hence the 0 for streets and OWRs. The network capacities are a different beast altogether.


Cheers
Willy


Erm... I know that.

You missed my point.

For example, I think Dirt is RHW (but I am not sure), RHW have a huge capacity, it providing only 1% of the Maxis Highway cap relief would be wrong.

NAM capacities can vary a lot, they are customizable and have sevearal varying defaults, still, cap relief should be more or less proportional to them (ie: something with a tiny capacity can't offer much relief, since there would be less commerce travelling through those networks, while something with a huge capacity, should offer a huge cap relief, because it would havel ots of commerce travelling there)

InvisiChem

@speeder,

I agree completely with your findings about some of the CAP relief provided by the network connections.
CAM Modifies some of these values. As of 2.1.0, I modified the Dirt road to provide 100,000 since the RHW is the only mod that uses this network type and deserves to have the highway cap relief. The original CAM had already increased this one to 50,000.

The next version will have a street connection of 1000. I forgot to hit save when I last modified the Demand Simulator exemplar, but will be fixed with 2.1.1.

If you want, so our mods can coincide with each other, I'll PM you the Demand Simulator I use in the mod.
Everyone has something to offer, most do not possess the courage to offer it.

Swordmaster

What's the point of street cap relief? I'm not really following here.

And yes, RHW is dirtroad.


Cheers
Willy

InvisiChem

The streets are generally unable to make any type of neighbor connections, which is why they provided no relief. There is a workaround with the advent of the NAM that allows streets to make a neighbor connection (I don't remember where I saw the thread, I don't use it personally). Just covering this, I added a small amount of relief since street capacities are low and to cover this. For those that do not use street connections, having the listing will not hurt their play at all.

One-way road is pointless to add any relief to thus far, so I left it alone completely.
Everyone has something to offer, most do not possess the courage to offer it.

Swordmaster

That's news to me. I thought any street connections were just false ones, really being roads actually. If this has changed, someone should elucidate me.


Cheers
Willy

speeder

Thanks for the info, and the offer!

But I don't want to copy stuff from other mods for now, to not get too confusing here, the amount of changes I made is already too big, and I am having difficulty tracking it all and seeing all the gameplay effects.

InvisiChem

@Swordmaster - I'll see if I can find it again. You may be right. I never paid that much attention to it since I don't continue streets along my tiles. Still, no harm having it there unused. :)

@Speeder - No problem man. Info is good. I'm interested to see what you come up with.
Everyone has something to offer, most do not possess the courage to offer it.

Tarkus

Quote from: speeder on February 16, 2016, 04:37:20 PM
My question is: NAM full install map these to what? is pedmalls a network? is highway and ground highway both Maxis highway?

All the NAM pseudo-networks use the existing networks as a base.  The capacity increases with some of them come by virtue of putting multiple tiles together, or using "Distilled Intersection Paths", to trick the game into thinking that the base network tiles are themselves intersections, and then setting the first value of the Intersection and Turn Capacity Effect property to 1.25, causing a 25%-per tile-increase.  Crossover paths on some multi-tile pseudo-networks (i.e. the RHW-8S) also invoke the same effect.

PedMalls don't have a draggable form at present, but the existing puzzle pieces are mapped in RUL0 to use the Road network as a base.  For all the other pseudo-networks:

Anything RHW: DirtRoad
All Two-Way NWM Networks (TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, NRD-4, TLA-5, RD-4, RD-6, and Triple-Tile Networks): Road
All One-Way NWM Networks (OWR-1, OWR-3, OWR-4, OWR-5): One-Way Road
Ground Light Rail: Light Rail
High Speed Rail: Monorail
Single-Track Rail: Rail
Street Addon Mod Streets: Street
Elevated Road Viaducts: Road
Elevated One-Way Road Viaducts: One-Way Road
Elevated Avenue Viaducts: Avenue

The various El-Rail-over and GLR-in/on dual-network items are CheckTyped to both involved network types, though the draggable implementation of Tram-on-Road (added in NAM 34) uses Rail overclicks on Road, due to the fact that El-Rail overclicks on Road were already taken for Tram-in-Road.  The CAN-AM puzzle pieces use CheckTypes that are scattered all over the place.

Also, the term "Maxis Highway" is used generically to refer to both the Highway and Ground Highway networks--we treat them as two versions of the same thing, but with highway development focused so heavily on the RHW, there is very little that we do with Highway and Ground Highway anymore.  The proposed double-decker 8-lane RHW (DDRHW-8), however, is planned to use a Highway override, in which the crossover paths would produce a 25%-per-tile capacity boost, resulting in the highest per-tile capacity of any network.

-Alex

speeder

Thanks for all the info!

Also any information on how connections behave? Ie: what real networks can connect?


Also extra info: After getting info that indeed Dirt is RHW, I found out why RHW has no monthly cost...

It is just a basic oversight :P The fix is extremely simple, and I will test later if I can use Simmaster DLL source to make it.


The technical info: The game has "budget departments", it is related to the departments you can click on the budget screen... some departments are actually split in even more departments, this is the case with transit:

The transit simulator has one budget department for roads, and another for mass transit, the mass transit one includes airports, seaports, whatnot.

When the city starts, or when you add or delete a road, it update the budget for the road department. (also  if you edit a mass transit network, it updates the budget for the mass transit department).

The formula is simple:

roads monthly costs = countOWR*costsOWR + countRoads*costsRoads
streets monthly costs = count * costs (for streets)
highway = count * costs (ground) + count * costs (elevated)
avenue = count * costs (avenue).


If you want, I can attempt to create the fix for dirt roads, and sum them to the highways (that will become ground + elevated + RHW)

Mind you, the game already track the Dirt road costs and count, the only thing missing is add a "count*costs" line to it, thus why it is trivial to add to Simmaster dll

j-dub

I don't remember if actually performs, but the street connection loophole was (assuming flat terrain) you draw a regular road neighbor connection, then draw a rail road across the road, then place a heavy rail piece overpass above the road directly where the arrow is, however, bulldoze the road right before the railroad, so the heavy rail piece overpass and road disappear, leaving only the neighbor connection arrow still there. I think you can safely start to draw a street from under the connection arrow, but for it to still work as a connection, one of those rural street pieces or sam starters that still has paths exiting, has to be placed on the street under the connection arrow. I personally don't do this myself though. I also have done the same with OWR, but that don't want to work unless the paths on the OWR are still two directions, and the OWR entering has a place for the incoming traffic to continue, it don't like just turning around an exiting as soon as it first enters the city tile.

InvisiChem

Jdub, that is the exact tutorial I remember. Not sure if it still registers it as a road connection or not, but at least the street connection CAP relief is there now, just in case. Would be interesting to know, but not essential.

Everyone has something to offer, most do not possess the courage to offer it.

Swordmaster

If you're making the connection with the road tool, it'll always stay a road connection, no matter how much you make it look like a street. This matter is hardcoded in the exe, AFAIK.


Cheers
Willy

InvisiChem

Everyone has something to offer, most do not possess the courage to offer it.