Quick Rail/MassTransit pathing question

[zakuten]

I understand by reading posts on here that the GLR system has rail pathings and I don't know about vice versa. Would it be possible, then, to integrate both services on one bridge, and if so which type, elevated or heavy, would I have to build to do so? (In addition, I believe I've glitched my Drawpaths cheat, because it only shows small amounts of pathing near intersections and also won't turn off...) Any help that could be offered would be appreciated!

[Swamper77]

The GLR/Elevated Rail has rail pathing, but only to facilitate UDI mode for the elevated rail train/GLR trams for the player. The freight and passenger trains won't actually use a GLR bridge that has rail pathing due to how the traffic simulator is set.

-Swamper

[jplumbley]

I understand by reading posts on here that the GLR system has rail pathings and I don't know about vice versa. Would it be possible, then, to integrate both services on one bridge, and if so which type, elevated or heavy, would I have to build to do so?

Sorry, the GLR System is not pathed with Rail Traffic Paths, it is pathed with El-Rail paths.

Since, the GLR System is an "El-rail" based network, it cannot be combined with the "Rail" network to create a "dual-networked" bridge.  We have tried many theories and failed due to limitations within the game that prevent 2 Path Types from being on the same bridge*.  There is the same limitation for dragging networks on land... Land based networks are allowed to have upto 2 separate Path Types in the tile.  MAXIS allowed for 2 Path Types for land based intersections.  Obviously, this extra coding to allow for extra pathing was not expected to be required for Bridges because you cannot "intersect" bridges.  It is mostly likely we will never find a way to do this...

*Pedestrian Paths are not part of this and remember Car Paths dicate the paths for Cars, Trucks and Buses.

Writing this post just gave me an idea.  

[zakuten]

Ah, I see... I can swear though that I've seen a post in this forum just 2 days ago showing a heavy-rail train going down GLR though, so I musta confused that for a general use. The pathing as set up to facilitate the UDI though, I could use that for a short combined stretch maybe? What might I be able to do as far as turning off the drawpaths, though; will it stay for good in the city if I don't turn it off?

[cogeo]

Indeed, GLR/El networks do have rail paths, and this can be used for UDI missions (GLR/El UDI missions are actually rail missions, so these are needed in order to run the UDI automata).
However, this feature can be "exploited" to make rail automata running on GLR/El track. This is what the NDEX Rail-to-El Transition does. It actually "converts" rail traffic to El (working  much like a hub/interchange station) - and vice vera - but you see the same automata running on the other tracks, particularly Passenger Trains running on El/GLR track.
I have made some transitions too (never released), converting Rail to GLR (instead of El-Rail). What I wanted to achieve was the opposite though, ie El/GLR trains running on "heavy" rail track. This is the case with many real-world cities, esp in Europe: light rail (even subways which may at some point emerge to ground level) can use the heavy rail track (I'm talking about commuter rail, high-speed rail is another case, its track is completely isolated) up to some point in the suburbs, ie share the track; from there on the track continues as rail-only track). But for some reason this appears not to work. This sounds very reasonable, as the (heavy) rail track network does not contain light rail paths.
I experimented with NDEX transition as well a lot. I laid track as the documentation suggested (a junction before the transition and to the same direction) but I was not successful in sending El trains over rail track. This appears not to work (except of course for UDI trains, but these are actually rail automata already) in my installation. I have the European version (for which "English" language also means left-hand driving) and have also applied the Left-To-Right hand driving patch (from ST Modds and Downloads). Can Jan help with this (ie get the NDEX working)? Or instead confirm that this is impossible?

[Swamper77]

I assume this is the file you are talking about: Elevated Rail <-> Rail Transition? If so, Tropod made the upload, not NDEX.

While rail automata can visually travel through the lot and onto the elevated rail tracks, the actual commuting passengers will not for the most part. This is due to the transit switching properties of the lot. The passenger rail trains come into the lot and get converted to pedestrians, and then the pedestrians are converted to elevated rail trains.

I modified my copy so the passenger trains are converted directly to elevated rail trains. This messed things up a bit as I had rail trains traveling on the elevated rail tracks, which made the congestion display between dark orange and blood red when the passenger trains were traveling on the tracks.

In order for passenger trains to run on elevated rail tracks without triggering a blood red congestion display, the speed of the passenger rail train needs to be added to the elevated rail network. Currently, the passenger rail trains have no speed on the elevated rail tracks, which is why they won't normally use the elevated rail tracks. So, the Traffic Simulator file will need to be updated to allow this.

-Swamper

[zakuten]

Ah, thanks much for that, Swamper. I also noticed though, the Elevated bridges do seem to have the rail pathing if I'm reading the colors correctly; it seems to show el in one direction and rail the other.. Still can't turn it off though, "drawpaths off" won't even do it.

[j-dub]

@zakuten Have you tried ctrl-x "hidepaths" ? After playing with this for a while, trains seem to visually use el/ground rail pieces, but they don't seem to transfer those routes over if it was rail, then el, then rail again. I have put puzzle pieces next to each other, el-rail next to rail puzzle piece instead of using a transfer point lot. Guess you can't beat the system that way. Oh well.

[cogeo]

I assume this is the file you are talking about: Elevated Rail <-> Rail Transition? If so, Tropod made the upload, not NDEX.

Errr, I always confuse this with NDEX rail-to-subway transition. Sorry Tropod!

While rail automata can visually travel through the lot and onto the elevated rail tracks, the actual commuting passengers will not for the most part. This is due to the transit switching properties of the lot. The passenger rail trains come into the lot and get converted to pedestrians, and then the pedestrians are converted to elevated rail trains.

In the version I have (STEX) transit switchings do not involve pedestrians, but are quite strange too:
0x81,0xF0,0x03,0x07
0x81,0xF0,0x07,0x03
0x82,0xF0,0x07,0x03
0x82,0xF0,0x03,0x07
Does this mean that a train entering the transition (0x81,0xF0,0x03,0x07) can only leave as train again (0x82,0xF0,0x07,0x03) because that's the only switching available? I don't understand it.

For the ingame El<->Subway Transition the settings are:
0x81,0xF0,0x07,0x07
0x82,0xF0,0x07,0x06
0x81,0xF0,0x06,0x07
0x82,0xF0,0x07,0x07
That is the "inside" form of traffic is always El. Incoming/Outgoing subway trains are "converted" on entry/exit respectively.

NDEX Subway<->Rail transition is different:
0x81,0xA0,0x03,0x03
0x81,0xA0,0x06,0x06
0x82,0xA0,0x03,0x06
0x82,0xA0,0x06,0x03
The logic here is: incoming rail/subway trains are not converted, they are converted on exit.

I mean I can understand the logic in the ingame and NDEX case, but not in Tropod's case. Can someone ( ) please explain this?

But Jan, I think you didn't understand my question exactly, I mean is it possible to make El/GLR automata running on rail track (given the lack of El paths in rail networks), but without modifying the simulator, ie just by making a TE lot? The pic in the documentation shows a passenger train running on the El track and an El-train running on the rail track. But that El-train is actually a UDI mission (ie actually a passenger train as well).

[Swamper77]

Without the correct paths and the necessary changes made to the Traffic Simulator, elevated rail trains will never run properly on the rail network. Just using a TE lot will not work, at least to the best of my knowledge. Maybe Jason or Tropod can explain this better than I can, as I don't really work with TE lots and the simulator files. I just make vehicles

-Swamper

[zakuten]

Hidepaths didn't do it, however, luckily enough, saving and re-opening (twice oddly) got rid of it. So it's all good now, on that front.