Released: SAM-7 Asphalt Street Textures (Hableurg) Override

[mgb204]

I've been working recently on the T21s for the Bikepaths, firstly I should say a massive thank you to Girafe who created the bike props especially for this mod, I've already replaced all my other bike props with them. With that in mind I will include an override to make them appear on Paeng's Bikepaths (and elsewhere) for those who prefer uniformity, MMPs are already done too.

Using the feedback here I've split the props into four groups; Ortho and Diag for regular lot use (in prop families) and a second special T21 set of each which contains offset versions of the props in the prop family mix. This second set also uses the Prop Random Chance property (thanks Vortext) so for example on a straight tile there is a chance that up to two props will appear in a total of six possible positions. I may need to tweak the settings a little, but right now the results are a pretty good mix between enough randomness and too many bikes. They are also set to disappear during the night.

I've also finished my overhaul of all the NAM junctions for SAM7 with T21s, I've used the French Road Signs pack as it pretty much contains everything and works in most EU settings, here's all these T21's in action:


(click for full size)

I'm using a custom version with Sudden Valley terrain grass, version 2 of the Bikepaths will have TGN (unified wealth ONLY) versions and there are a number of little texture fixes, most notably with Euro road transitions. Some improvements have also been made to the RRW crossings (Note: Yellow box markings will not be included in release):



Right now I'm thinking the options list will be along these lines:

• Base T21s which simply add the Bike Props to straight/diag pieces
• The additional T21s adding EU signage from the French Signage Pack to the junctions (I may extend this to non-NAM covered pieces)
• Rail Crossings with either Maxis or Jondor barrier props (Jondor type shown)
• All of the above in either LHD or RHD configurations

Frankly, I'm already sick of T21s, I have much motivation to create new pieces but I wish I didn't have to muck around swapping properties from lots to t21s all the time, it would be great if there was a tool to lot a T21. I've found it harder and harder to find the motivation to return to the RHD versions and as a result when I start thinking about trying to support everything I just hit a wall, it is therefore clear to me that for a realistic prospect of release I need to reign in the number of options to keep the workload at a sensible level. What this means is first I won't be making a set of T21s where just the original props are adjusted to match the new geometry, frankly the original Maxis props are ugly, I have no desire to re-make them. As pointed out by APSMS such Euro-Centric signage is not something US users would like to see so I want to provide an option here, but I can't obviously accommodate many different sign sets. So long as making the US versions is no more than linking to a different prop and possibly rotating it I will commit to some sort of generic US version, however if I have to start breaking out the LE en-masse to make them, it's not going to happen. It would be very helpful if someone could point me in the direction of a single prop pack with some fairly generic US signage for this purpose. I don't want to come across as unwilling to support US users, but you have to bear in mind here just because someone uses either EU or US textures doesn't mean they would want EU or US signs either, as with everything there are just too many possibilities to extend support everywhere for what essentially started out as a very Euro-Centric mod. In theory you could just creates some prop overrides if you wanted different signage, all the hard work making the T21s has been done for you.

With regards to the Rail Crossings, the Maxis versions will simply move the crossing barriers to a better position. The Jondor Versions will contain full support for both Plundare's Catenary Mod / RVTs RUM for RRW and include the EU signage. My thinking here is that those who don't have the Catenaries installed simply won't see them in-game, the same with the Road Signage, since it's pretty unlikely users would have these installed that didn't want to see them it allows me to make one set without compromising on compatibility. I realise there are some drawbacks to this approach.

Lastly, now the bikes are in place I find myself unhappy with the car's driving through cyclists, I could see my way to making some optional path changes for the Straight and Diagonal pieces to accommodate the bikers, but I'm not looking to re-path the entire SAM7 set here. This would mean that the pathing would not match where the straights/diagonals intersect with other pieces, perhaps causing a small "jump" for automata, is this something that would be useful?

[noahclem]

These are looking perfect    Girafe's street props, jondor's rail crossings, sudden valley wealthification, and of course these streets themselves are all the best of their kind. I'm trying to remember a suitable US style sign pack but haven't though of anything yet.

Tough call on what to do with the paths. Wouldn't the cars collide with ongoing traffic if they didn't collide with the bikers? The change you suggest should work for most purposes but won't be UDIable which is important to some.

Looking forward to seeing how things turn out 

[Girafe]

love the development 
Please put my signs everywhere 

[jondor]

Frankly, I'm already sick of T21s, I have much motivation to create new pieces but I wish I didn't have to muck around swapping properties from lots to t21s all the time, it would be great if there was a tool to lot a T21. I've found it harder and harder to find the motivation to return to the RHD versions and as a result when I start thinking about trying to support everything I just hit a wall, it is therefore clear to me that for a realistic prospect of release I need to reign in the number of options to keep the workload at a sensible level. What this means is first I won't be making a set of T21s where just the original props are adjusted to match the new geometry, frankly the original Maxis props are ugly, I have no desire to re-make them. As pointed out by APSMS such Euro-Centric signage is not something US users would like to see so I want to provide an option here, but I can't obviously accommodate many different sign sets. So long as making the US versions is no more than linking to a different prop and possibly rotating it I will commit to some sort of generic US version, however if I have to start breaking out the LE en-masse to make them, it's not going to happen. It would be very helpful if someone could point me in the direction of a single prop pack with some fairly generic US signage for this purpose. I don't want to come across as unwilling to support US users, but you have to bear in mind here just because someone uses either EU or US textures doesn't mean they would want EU or US signs either, as with everything there are just too many possibilities to extend support everywhere for what essentially started out as a very Euro-Centric mod. In theory you could just creates some prop overrides if you wanted different signage, all the hard work making the T21s has been done for you.

Hey there. I recently returned to the site to participate in discussions about Cities: Skylines and I just happened to notice this thread. Glad to see you're making use of the RR props I designed. 

There is a sort of solution to the problem of making T21s, but it's not actually a whole lot better than the lot editor. I was working on a tool shortly before I left SC4 development that was only released to the NAM team at the time because it was still pretty rough in development. I did use it to make the base set of T21s for my RR crossing prop mod, although the bulk of the work was actually done with a custom Java program that took that base set and made copies and adjusted positions slightly for different networks and for the LHD version, etc.

The last version of the T21 tool that I released can be found here: http://www.thedwarfers.net/otherstuff/random/sc4/T21%20Editor.zip All you need is at least the Java Runtime v7 and it should still work, although I haven't actually used it in a couple years now.

Good luck! 

[mgb204]

These are looking perfect    Girafe's street props, jondor's rail crossings, sudden valley wealthification, and of course these streets themselves are all the best of their kind.

Couldn't agree more  .

Wouldn't the cars collide with ongoing traffic if they didn't collide with the bikers? The change you suggest should work for most purposes but won't be UDIable which is important to some.

Well in any case it would be optional, I don't really know how UDI stuff works, I'm guessing if the paths don't all line up this causes problems though? There does seem to be some space between passing vehicles, just a few pixels should be enough I hope, it would be great if we could emulate the real world where cars got stuck manoeuvring around bikes.

Please put my signs everywhere

Oh where to stop...? (see below).

The last version of the T21 tool that I released can be found here...

Thanks for posting, I've had a quick once-over with the linked tool yesterday and I think it may be quite useful to help realise the RHD versions, I make LHD by default, so it's a lot of work to re-make them entirely. Now I can simply move the props using the coordinates but with a visual representation so I can be confident I'm moving the correct things, it should be quite a time saver . I'd leave you a Full Rimmer salute, but I can't find one.

---

I would like to extend the T21s to cover the other SAM networks too, once I've done a base set with standard geometry (so not this one), it's mostly just re-IDing T21's which I don't mind so much, I did this with Magneto's Roundabouts with Trees to create a full set of SAM variants. Then I think about a more general EU streetside mod, I've never really liked the Trees used in other mods, they are always too large for me, I also would like to get the streetlighting more unified since I often find a lot of T21s fighting for the same spot. I guess I'm thinking mostly about using props from Girafes trees, the recently released urban pack, car props and of course not forgetting the road signs ,  I think most of the pieces are there to accomplish this? I'd love to do something along the lines of the Japanese Streetside Mod with lots of street clutter, perfect for the big city environments. I'm still trying to get to grips with the basics of the SC4BAT tool, but it's not inconceivable that I could also create some small simplistic props for this purpose too. So much to do...

[noahclem]

On the issue of the paths, I think UDI presents the only problem for you having them not line up and it seems most people don't really use it. Iirc, we had a report of a problem with UDI caused by not-quite-aligned paths but they'd been public for many months before anybody even noticed and reported them and haven't yet been fixed because the issue just hasn't been thought important enough. Your path change would be a cool option to have even if it doesn't perfectly solve car traffic weaving around bikes and each other

Have to say I'm particularly excited about another T21 mod with conventional geometry 

[FrankU]

I have no knowledge whatsoever about the technical details you are discussing at the moment, but the not-even-final products look gorgeous! 
That's all folks.

[jondor]

Thanks for posting, I've had a quick once-over with the linked tool yesterday and I think it may be quite useful to help realise the RHD versions, I make LHD by default, so it's a lot of work to re-make them entirely. Now I can simply move the props using the coordinates but with a visual representation so I can be confident I'm moving the correct things, it should be quite a time saver . I'd leave you a Full Rimmer salute, but I can't find one.

http://www.youtube.com/v/6QsBiuNJiVM
Glad you found it useful, and that it still works fine. 

[mgb204]

Just a quick update to confirm the T21 mod is complete as of 2 minutes ago .

I've come to the conclusion that I really don't enjoy T21 modding, so having to remake everything twice for RHD versions sucked, that said I don't like it when there is no LHD option for a mod, so I will always commit to making RHD variants, especially as it's pretty much default for everyone else.

Final options will be:

- Base mod which simply adds bikes to the NAM T21s
- Optional addition for EU signage at junctions
- Maxis DTR crossings
- Jondor DTR crossings with support for Plundare's cantenaries

V2 of the SAM7 mod is also complete, along with the TGN variants, I just need to get this all packaged up and the documentation sorted before I can release it.

[FrankU]

Wow! Fantastic! 
I guess you had a good night's sleep after you posted this?

We'll wait in anticipation for the release.

Thanks already. 

[mgb204]

As work on the sidewalk automation is almost finished, I can turn my attention to a number of in-progress mods. Due to some tinkering I made the decision to hold off releasing any texture mods until they are all ready. I want to be sure they all play nicely together and unify them into one location by default. The Bikepaths v2.0 have been finished a while, I've just got to finish adapting the sidewalk automation for my Sidewalk NAM release and then everything should be ready to go. In the meantime you can find a preview of the T21 mod attached to this post if you want to try it out.

If someone is able to point out a suitable generic US set of road signs with equivalents of the EU ones by Girafe I've used, I'd be happy to swap some prop IDs around and create a more US themed set. I would at minimum require the following signs:

- Stop
- Give Way/Yield
- Rail Crossing
- 2 Speed signs, I used 30/50 for the Euro set, no idea what's suitable for US in this regard.

[MandelSoft]

You can ask Eggman; he has quite some US signs modeled for his T21 RHW signage mod.

If not, you can use these signs from Wikimedia Commons:
Yield: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R1-2.svg
Stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_R1-1.svg
Railway Crossing: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MUTCD_W10-1.svg
Speed limits: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Speed_Limit_20_sign.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Speed_Limit_30_sign.svg  (I've picked 20 and 30 here as MPH equivalents, but maybe the speed limit norms are different in the USA)

These do need to be modeled, but at least you have some pointers about what to use.

[eggman121]

You can ask Eggman; he has quite some US signs modeled for his T21 RHW signage mod.

Here to help 

Ok. I will be resuming the T21 Signage Mod when the new content is settled.

Maybe a partnership? I have to fix some of the signs due to artifacts and disappearance but I can help with IIDs, Signs and how to T21 them if you need to go into that much detail.

-eggman121 

[mgb204]

Hmm, I not really looking to make any models, especially US ones which I wouldn't use myself. If props exist then all I have to do is re-ID the existing pieces and maybe rotate them so it's quite quick, that's really more what I had in mind.

However T21s for signs makes more sense than either plop lots or MMPs (my current preference), I certainly have some ideas for RHW signs. For the most part I use MandelSofts UK signs in combination with Girafe's French Road Signage (these are pretty suitable for most EU environments). If each of MandelSoft's sets were given the same IDs (prop override may be required) and some sort of prop family, i.e. at junctions if there was more than one type of sign they could be selected with multiple clicks, that would be very useful for me.

In this way it should be possible to make a generic set of T21s where users could install a sign pack for their desired locale, and creators could choose to make compatible packs to work with it, one set of T21s should be all that's ever required for all circumstances. If this sounds like it resonates with you (I've no idea what you have planned), then I would be happy to combine efforts to see such a thing realised. I can BAT, but I'm not exactly confident with it or producing great results yet, so I probably wouldn't be much help with modelling in any case. Do you work in LHD or RHD, usually I'd offer to do the LHD set, but seeing as you're from a LHD country, perhaps your working in LHD too?

[mgb204]

Coming soon to a LEX near you...



v2.1 of the SAM7 Bikepaths  .

[Girafe]

Thanks a lot 

Did you tweak a little bit the texture for the railroad crossing, I don t remember this one, and I kinda love this one.

Hope this roundabout texture could be fixed soon 

Keep continuing this amazing job 

[mattb325]

Thanks for all of your hard work, it looks like a really lovely alternative to the old asphalt streets! 

[kbieniu7]

Great addon! Especially for the Dutch users, I guess

[InvisiChem]

Those are actually really cool. 

[eggman121]

Hmm, I not really looking to make any models, especially US ones which I wouldn't use myself. If props exist then all I have to do is re-ID the existing pieces and maybe rotate them so it's quite quick, that's really more what I had in mind.

However T21s for signs makes more sense than either plop lots or MMPs (my current preference), I certainly have some ideas for RHW signs. For the most part I use MandelSofts UK signs in combination with Girafe's French Road Signage (these are pretty suitable for most EU environments). If each of MandelSoft's sets were given the same IDs (prop override may be required) and some sort of prop family, i.e. at junctions if there was more than one type of sign they could be selected with multiple clicks, that would be very useful for me.

In this way it should be possible to make a generic set of T21s where users could install a sign pack for their desired locale, and creators could choose to make compatible packs to work with it, one set of T21s should be all that's ever required for all circumstances. If this sounds like it resonates with you (I've no idea what you have planned), then I would be happy to combine efforts to see such a thing realised. I can BAT, but I'm not exactly confident with it or producing great results yet, so I probably wouldn't be much help with modelling in any case. Do you work in LHD or RHD, usually I'd offer to do the LHD set, but seeing as you're from a LHD country, perhaps your working in LHD too?

Sorry that I have not replied earlier

In the current state I will be resuming work on a T21 sign mod when the new Flex TuLEPs get released. When I first ventured into signs and T21ing for that matter I was dealing with puzzle pieces and did not have the requisite tools or skills as I do now. I think the transition to a Flex and draggable state has had its hiccups but gone relatively well given the circumstances. I have been waiting for the NAM to come to such a state as when it would be beneficial to add T21 props to transit pieces.

In any case I do plan to make a generic set of signs with coded IIDs so as long as the correct sign pack is included the pack will be picked up with the correct localized T21 BATs. I do plan to put the sign IIDs in a logical fashion and will present a spreadsheet to compliment when the time comes so other avid BATers can make their own signs to work with the T21 exemplars.

Yeah I'm speaking alot of NAM speak at the moment  .

So when the time comes I will start working on the T21s. 

-eggman121