FrankU's Lottery - Space Center update

[Jack_wilds]

All the lots that are shown look good-ok... 

if there is one that I could point to hopefully clarify is the wheatmill windmill compared to the lumbermill windmill,

the wheatmill has 'ground color, clutter and shadow' that give that grounded-ness attachment to the lot look where as the lumber mill windmill has that 'thunk there it is' -look at the base, but the shadowing and the green do give it some grounding

what I was alluding to is the general tendency for lotters to place/arrange props on a lot and the props appear to be 'ungrounded' having a 'plop-there-it-is' appearance... however what you have done doesn't appear to be the case as the props do appear to be attached to the lot ground...

as for the fences, trees, shrubs and the like, I understand and also use that technique too -that not what I was trying to point at... its just a general heads up about the grounding of props to a lot for realism effect...

Am I being clear or getting muddier    maybe some one else could phrase this clearer as I like what your doing 

concerning the limber mill being crowed I have worked in crowed lumber yards so its not that bad, however perhaps the two lumber stacks to the rear could be a shorter plank length

Over all you do display good design sense, having a feel for prop placement

Jack

[FrankU]

Perhaps you mean that the lumber windmill is placed too simple on the dirt and the grass? Yes, that I can see. It would be nice to have some small weeds or trash at the foot of the windmill. It is just that the way the model is BATted that a prop directly placed next to the mill will disappear under it. Hard to say what I mean. I should take some time this weekend to make some experiments and show them. Maybe that will also be interesting to Meurdoos, who actually made the mill.
Anyway: I cannot place props directly next to the mill, because they will look af if the mill is standing on this prop. And that really would be a stupid effect.

Also I see that the barn has no shadow..... Where is it? Shall I ask the maker where he hid it?

And indeed, the lumber mill is very crowded.
I also limited myself by using only a selection of prop packs. It is already a quite large set: the whole list of what is needed for the prop families I use and additionally some three or four pack and all the models.
Somehow I have the feeling that a too long list of dependencies will stop people from using them themselves. And I'd like to upload them and see them in other player's work...
That's why I did not use JeStarrs truck with logs on it, this would add another dependency. And also other stacks of wood, lumber stuff etc would be usefull, but would also increase the number of dependencies.

I guess I will try to make a completely different lumbermill one of these days.

[FrankU]

I made some pictures. You can see what I mean by placing a prop next to the mill.
The forklift and the pallet stack seem to be lying under the mill.



And see what happens if I use the barn (Tobacco barn by JayStimon).
In the first image it looks like we can work something out that resembels a real life lumbermill.



But if I turn the view. The pros are not moved, of course.
Something very strange happens. It looks like the mill is floating above ground, but it is not! Well, I did not raise it above ground. And when you comare the position of the mill with the base texture, you can see that it sits directly on ground.

Look:



and



and



If anyone knows what to do?
I do not think I will be able to make a good lumber mill out of it. Maybe I'll ask Meurdoos to make one?

[Andreas]

It looks like the windmill model is either off-center or wasn't rendered with a height of 0. Maybe you can adjust it with SC4ModelTweaker.

[jmyers2043]

You can try Andreas solution but I'm not hopeful. But worth a try nevertheless if you really like the model. I also think I've seen this model done by someone else (it had a green shingled roof) at Simtrop too. I'll leave you to search as I don't have a link handy. 


Good Luck

- Jim

[Silur]

I'm with Andreas ...

[FrankU]

I am not perfecly sure, because I know nothing of the BAT, but I think the model is not rendered off center or floating in air. As you can see on page 3 of this thread, in reply nr 49, I have made several lots with this model. When I rotate these lots the mill stays perfectly in place. The shadow begins directly on/at (?) the mill, so I think the model is OK. Maybe the barn model is weird? It is a strange thing here....

[Andreas]

It's hard to tell from the screenshots, as the lot is cut off, but yeah, if the windmill is fine, it might be the barn.

[FrankU]

Funny enough I used the barn also on a lot. It seemed to behave normally. The strange things happen when I put them over each other, the mill and the barn. I'll do some experimenting. Maybe I find something.

[Lowkee33]

hmm, the barn looks like it is the same place too.

What we see in-game is a FSH, which is a 2d image.  In this case the windmill image is always on top on the barn.  Your first pictures works because of the LODs in the S3D. 

[FrankU]

hmm, the barn looks like it is the same place too.

I understand this part of your message and I agree with it.

What we see in-game is a FSH, which is a 2d image.  In this case the windmill image is always on top on the barn.  Your first pictures works because of the LODs in the S3D. 

This part I hardly understand. It is maybe an explanation of what we see, but why do we see it? I mean: all props and buildings are FSH's, S3D's and LODs? Isn't it? So why is it possible to place things in front of other props, while in this prop it is not possible? I ask this, because I have the feeling that your statement is an explanation. Pity that I do not understand it. 

[Lowkee33]

I'm sort of going on theory here, but I believe it has to do with the placement of the center of the prop.

For example, if you are placing a bush next to a fence you may see that that bush appears to go through the fence.  This is because the center of the bush prop goes passed the center of the fence prop.

You may be able to raise the barn?  Which model is your Building there, and which are props? 

[FrankU]

The mill is the building, the barn is one of the props.

And indeed: there are many props that can be hidden by other props or buildings. If this was not the case, we would not be playing SC4 anymore, because it would be very very stupid. But somehow this does not work correctly here.
Maybe we ask Meurdoos what he did? I can find him on Simtropolis. I sent him a message yesterday, b.t.w. I don't know if he is active anymore.

[Lowkee33]

Try seeing what happens if they both are props.  I doubt it will make a difference, but worth a shot.

[mave94]

Hi FrankU,

I reply here, because I don't want to pollute the "show us your..."-topic.
Of course I've read this treat, when I was looking for some Dutch buildings.
And yes, I recognised the flag
I really like your windmills, they would be a good addition to my region.
I don't know very much about the LOT editor, but can't you just delete some props from the file?

about the ditches/canals:
It's not difficult to make the canals the way I do, but it's a good idea to edit the peg streams, because most of the ditches in the Netherlands don't have trees around it (I look in my own region). Hope it'll work!

about making dunes:
I have been trying to make dunes last week. I haven't found a good solution, but I do have a, bit green but okay, coastline.
[link]
What do you think of it?

Can't wait for this great work to be uploaded!

-Matthijs-

[FrankU]

I really like your windmills, they would be a good addition to my region.
I don't know very much about the LOT editor, but can't you just delete some props from the file?

Why should I delete which files from what file? Sorry, I don't understand your remark... Are my lots too full? Then please tell me so. Deleting of props is the easiest thing to do...

about the ditches/canals:
It's not difficult to make the canals the way I do, but it's a good idea to edit the peg streams, because most of the ditches in the Netherlands don't have trees around it (I look in my own region). Hope it'll work!

Well, it depends on which ditches. There are ditches with knotwilgen (don't know their name in english), there are ditches through meadows without, there are canals.... I am myself thinking of narrow canals with reeds on the edges. Simgoober's canals have a too straight and brown edge. I would have used them immediately if the edges were green. But they aren't.

about making dunes:
I have been trying to make dunes last week. I haven't found a good solution, but I do have a, bit green but okay, coastline.
[link]
What do you think of it?

Your coastline is nice although a bit greyish. I myself once tried to work with the beach texture by Maxis that I used to plop the beach and the dunes. But it was not very versatile and in region view it looked horrible....
Have a look:


Of course you could try to use Chrisadam's or PEG's ploppable sand textures to fiil a whole hill for a dune, but thats an enormous job....

Can't wait for this great work to be uploaded!

Sorry, I am not happy enough yet with these, so you'll have to wait.

[FrankU]

I have not been idle these days.

The sawmill has a new look. It was a bit too full. I agreed on that, so I made the lot a bit larger. I also found some nice logs (SFBT) to add to the atmosphere.
Here it is.




I also added one mill that is just a Landmark. No road access needed. Many Dutch towns or villages have a stellingmolen in between the houses or on the old city walls. In Alkmaar there is the Molen van Piet. Maybe I rename the mill as a small remembrance to the town I grew up in.



So far for the windmill project.

But what is a rural region without growable farms? I have been making some. The first twelve, all stage one, I want to present to you.
Because I make an extensive use of my own prop families the lots may get very different looks. So of these variations I show you four lots. The Looerweide contains only trees and shrubs props that vary. Only one is presented. Bertines Bloemen and Menops Mennerij have not so much variation. But anyway I show you four lots, so that you can examine them from all sides.

Here we go.

Wesseling Weide 1


Wesseling Weide 2


Kuiermansweide 1


Kuiermansweide 2


Ten Have Tarwe 1


Ten Have Tarwe 2


Harbrink Weide 1


Harbrink Weide 2


Looerweide 1 (How are you going to pronounce that??? Ha ha!)


Looerweide 2


Bertines Bloemen


Menops Mennerij



Please tell me what you think.

In the near future you can expect stage 2, 3, 4 and 5 lots, some ploppable farm fields...., more windmills... I don't know where this is going to end.

[mave94]

I have not been idle these days.

The sawmill has a new look. It was a bit too full. I agreed on that, so I made the lot a bit larger. I also found some nice logs (SFBT) to add to the atmosphere.

Yes, that was what I meant. It looks better now, so you can easier walk around.

Looerweide 1 (How are you going to pronounce that??? Ha ha!)

Loa-ur-wide

Well, it depends on which ditches. There are ditches with knotwilgen (don't know their name in english), there are ditches through meadows without, there are canals.... I am myself thinking of narrow canals with reeds on the edges. Simgoober's canals have a too straight and brown edge. I would have used them immediately if the edges were green. But they aren't.

"knotwilg" means a pollard willow in English, so says my dictionary...
I know what you mean. There are some ditches with brown edges, but I agree that green edges will look better. Reeds in the ditches is a good idea, you see that very often.

Your coastline is nice although a bit greyish. I myself once tried to work with the beach texture by Maxis that I used to plop the beach and the dunes. But it was not very versatile and in region view it looked horrible....
Have a look:


Of course you could try to use Chrisadam's or PEG's ploppable sand textures to fiil a whole hill for a dune, but thats an enormous job....

Yes, indeed, my beaches are grey. I have to find a better solution...
Using the maxis beach is a good idea, but it's not the best solution I think. Maxis beaches are a bit to bright to my opinion.
I have used PEG's textures, because not all the sand on the beach is the same. Close to the sea it's very dark, but in the dunes it's very light.
I agree it is an enormous job, because the PEG textures are hard to use.

Please tell me what you think.

In the near future you can expect stage 2, 3, 4 and 5 lots, some ploppable farm fields...., more windmills... I don't know where this is going to end.

Your lots are very good. Keep up the good work, can't wait for more!
I see that your lots have street lights? 

-Matthijs-

[Jack_wilds]

...the lumber yard is much better and the use of the sfbt logs also gives it more credibility as a sawmill operation... 
as fro the farm yards a lot of variety of uses fro all those farm type chores  ... nothing to offer as yet for tweaking this or that  but perhaps later... 

Jack

[Lowkee33]

Very nice farm lots.  Will they be plops, or grow with a field?

Not too sure I like the cows spawning over the road, and Wesseling Weide 1 has a tree that grows through a crate.