[RippleJet]

I never did a LEX candidacy, because I fear for a lot of extra work, like making decent icons

You shouldn't fear!
There's a PS script available, which simplifies the icon making considerably.
I can make the icons for you, if you send me ingame images of the parts you want to show in the icons.

and readme's.

Although an HTML readme is recommended, there is no requirement for you to make anything more than the txt file that is currently included in your uploads.

Because my SC4 time is very limited, due to children, job, family and friends, I don't want to go too deep into these activities. But hey, maybe it's not so much...

Those will always have precedence over any game(s)...
And that's why we're helping each other here, so that you can concentrate on what you do best!

The first upload will always be the one that feels the most difficult to get right.
However, once that one is done, the next one will be so much easier.

Do you want me to do something?

Your dependency listing should contain links to where they can be downloaded.
The simpliest way to do this is a txt file that Cleanitol can read.

And then, open a LEX Candidacy thread.

[FrankU]

It has been quiet for some time in this thread. In the previous months I tried to develop a large region with skyscrapers and all. When I reached 4 million sims the Prop Pox hit my cities  and I first have to overcome that shock before I play the game again. 

In the meantime I have started a new project: the Dutch Farm Lots Pack.
For this project I have started to make a lot of new Prop Families, because I am not too happy with the families that I can find.

I now present you a quite large amount of new families that are all based on Maxis props. So no dependencies are needed.

In my opinion the prop families as provided are too uniform: they contain props of a related kind; like all cars or all sheds. For more diversitiy on lots it is more effective to combine unlike props in one family. I developed a group with this in mind. See for yourself.

I also added some empty props here and there. In another thread I asked a question about the existence of an invisible prop or a possibility to make a prop family where sometimes no prop shows up. Now Lowkee helped me to solve that  .
Anyway: when plopped, sometime there will be no prop at all, because like the name says: the empty prop does not contain any visible stuff.

In the end I will show you a problem that needs to be solved before I am willing to release these on the STEX, and maybe even LEX?

Here are the families:


0x5f851820 - FVU Fences and Hedge


0x5f851821 - FVU TreesnShrubs 1


0x5f851822 - FVU TreesnShrubs 2


0x5f851823 - FVU Shrubs 1


0x5f851824 - FVU Shrubs 2


0x5f851825 - FvU Grasspatch


0x5f851826 - FVU Gardenpatch


0x5f851827 - FVU Formal patch


0x5f851828 - FVU Shedmix1


0x5f851829 - FVU Shedmix2


0x5f85182a - FVU Sheds n Pens


0x5f85182b - FVU Farmyard 1


0x5f85182c - FVU Farmyard 2


0x5f85182d - FVU Farmyard 3


0x5f85182e - FVU Garden1


0x5f85182f - FVU Garden2


0x5f851830 - FVU Lawn1


0x5f851831 - FVU Lawn2


0x5f851832 - FVU Lawn3


0x5f851833 - FVU Small terrace props


0x5f851834 - FVU Garden playtools


0x5f851835 - FVU Small farm props


0x5f851836 - FVU Trucks


0x5f851837 - FVU Truckmix


0x5f851838 - FVU TrucksnCars


0x5f851839 - FVU Watertanks


0x5f85183a - FVU Farmcargo


0x5f85183b - FVU Industrycargo


So, that's all. Do you think these are useful? I hope I do myself.

Now these propfamilies have been made with Pim-X. It was really very simple once I had taken time to find out. There is one function that I did like very much indeed: the naming of the families. In Reader that's a tedious job with weird numbering etc. In Pim-X I just click on the newly formed family and type in a name. The program creates a desc file with the naming and all.

Now I have two questions about that.
In Pim-X the names are visible. Just the funny thing is: they are not in alfabetical order. Not even in the order of creation. So what order is it and can I do something about this? I like to have my work neatly organised and summed up in a logical order.

Have a look at this sceenshot:


But In Lot Editor it is even worse. When I don't use the desc files with the names in it I see a list of new propfamilies. Did I already tell you that they work perfectly?

But when I put the desc files into the plugins directory I see this in Lot Editor:



It really is a big mess! This does not work. It is better to work without the naming, then at least the ID's are all right.
Who knows what to do? As far as I can see with Pim-X and Reader the desc files seem to be allright, but that can be caused by my ignorance.

[Lowkee33]

I am not too sure about the order of the families.  Perhaps they are in order of the Cohort TGI?

They are good families though.  I would only worry about the fences.  SC4 is going to to pick one at random, so you wouldn't be able to use more than one on a Lot.   The result would be a patch work of fence.

[FrankU]

I am not too sure about the order of the families.  Perhaps they are in order of the Cohort TGI?

They are good families though.  I would only worry about the fences.  SC4 is going to to pick one at random, so you wouldn't be able to use more than one on a Lot.   The result would be a patch work of fence.

Well, this patchwork is exactly what I have in mind: for making different looking farm lots or allotments. Maybe even some redesigned residential lots.

The cohort TGI; could I do something about these? I don't think so, I guess?

[Lowkee33]

You can change the TGIs in Reader, although I am not sure this is your problem.

Best bet would be to datpack them into one file.  If you opened that you could see the TGIs and see if they are out of order.

By clicking on the "File Info" button you will open a box with some information  There is a button there that allows you to change the TGI.  I imagine the only differences will be in the Instance, and they will need to be put in the order you want.  It would be better to re-order the existing Instances rather than to make new ones.

It might even be faster to change the Family the cohort points to, but you'll have to try that out.

[BarbyW]

Frank I have replied to you in the Prop Families thread.

[FrankU]

Phewwww...... and....... Finished! 

I have been modding around trying to get the naming of the prop families in order. It did not work. And I gave up. 
I expanded the above list of prop families up to a total of 69 new prop families. Some of them require no dependencies, because they contain only Maxis props. Others require some basic BSC Mega packs. I have uploaded the whole bunch to the STEX. You might get interested and take a look!

Look here: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25412

Didn't I say already I consider myself the Prop Family Man?

[Girafe]

Really good job FrankU 
I will take a look at these families for sure 

[FrankU]

The PropFamily files have been on the STEX for about two weeks now. They went without family names descriptions because I could not get them right in Lot Editor.
I have been trying to find out what went wrong and what I could do about it.
I did not succeed.
The reason is probably that I used many props in more than one prop family. LE gets confused, Pim-X doesn't. (Pity that in Pim-X you cannot cycle through the props like you can in LE)

So I decided to upload the additional description file that is working in Pim-X.
In Pim-X you will have the descriptions just like you are used to with other prop families.
http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25438

I also added a small text file with the ID's and descriptions for LE-users. You can open the text file next to your LE on the screen and have a look whenever you want to know. It works, but is not perfect, of course.

I hope you will have fun with my prop families.

I myuself am busy with relotting some old farming-community lots that I got. Then I will make some new lots with several windmills that are available. At last I will try to make a set of Farming lots that are inspired on the Dutch rural reality. Haarlemmergold, Ten Doornkaat, Vanderaap, Oppie and Meurdoos are inevitably thanked a lot for their work which makes this project possible as I am not a BATter.

[FrankU]

Bump, bump, bump...
Does anyone actually read this thread? 
I hope so, because I want to present some lotting stuff and I would like to hear from you what you think.

It is a set of 8 Dutch windmills.
Four of them use Oppies windmill and another four use Meurdoos' Stellingmolen as a model.
Meurdoos' Wipmolen and the Nutley Windmill by lord_quillian2 will be used in additional lots later.

In the lots I make extensive use of my self made prop families. What did you expect? That's exactly what I made them for.

First four windmills that try to resemble the widespread windmills that were used to pump water up from the low lying areas (the polders) up to the canals and rivers.
In the past these windmills were found is rows along canals. Usually they were put parallel to each other: together they had a large capacity. On some locations however you can find them in line: every mill pumps the water up a bit. Together they can rise the water to greater height.

In game they are industrial landmarks with 11 I-R jobs. That seemed quite reasonable to me. I just did not know why Pim-X gave them a plop cost of more than § 190.000. It seemed a bit much to me, so I downsizes this value a bit. Is that OK?

Windmill De Zwaan


Some variations that appear by use of the prop families:


Windmill De Zes Wielen


And some variations:


Windmill De Oude Knegt


And its variations:


Windmill De Oude Zwerver


And you know what:


Then the four mills with Meurdoos' Stellingmolen.
This kind of mill was often used for industrial production, like sawing wood, grinding wheat etc. You can also find this type on the edge of historical cities, e.g. on the citywalls. Because the mill is higher it can catch wind over the roofs of lower houses.

These mills are also plopable landmarks. They have 35 I-R jobs.

Sawmill De Ooievaar
This mill is actually incorrect. It is not like sawmills look, because sawmills have a long straight barn under the mill, This is to house the long logs. For a real good sawmill somebody would need to make a BAT for me. If someone feels tempted, I can send some pictures...


Wheatmill De Hoop


Mill Houdt Braef Stant
This is just some kind of generic industrial kind of mill.


Molen van Boks
Another just more or less industrial looking mill.


So, please, tell me what you think of my lots and the values. Is it realistic to give them I-R jobs or should it be Dirty industry?

[Jack_wilds]

dutchy industry vunderbar!  (is it correct spelling and statement  )

I'm not very 'dutch' as my ancestry came from the Emmerich am Rhein region-area (Dutch: Emmerik aan de Rijn, meaning Emmerich at the Rhine) 

Jack

[wouanagaine]

Nice FrankU

As for the price in PIMX, better ask Ripplejet , but I suspect the height of windmill can be a reason

[Lowkee33]

The downside to IR is that traffic will make go abandoned, and it may be tough to get it running at full capacity.  A landmark will not export anything, so there is that to think about.  A growable farm may be neat if the fields were full of timed props that simulated trees growing/cut down.

I would even venture to call them manufacturing, it's not like there is any smog coming from it, and someone is getting plenty wealthy off of that lumber.

[FrankU]

@ Jack_wilds
It is actually spelled Wunderbar, but I understand it anyway. Thanks. Do you see improvements that I could make? Are the lots too full or too empty? Too clean or too dirty? Is something missing?

@Wouanagaine: thanks, I'll do that.

@ Lowkee,

You mean the mills get abandoned when there is a fair amount of traffic along the streets? Yes, I didn't think about that problem. Why I made them I-R is because in an I-R region you may not have education. And I don't know what will happen with ID or IM when there is too little education. Will I have Sims that are smart enough to work in ID or IM?
In real life you need indeed quite some education to maintain a windmill. But that also goes for the large agricultural temporary farms. In fact these would not look too bad as IHT, if you see what computers farmers use nowadays. But that's not the way SC4 sees it. I would be very happy if it were possible to make farms stage 4 and higher with educates Sims, but I guess Ripplejet c.s. tried this and did not succeed with CAM.
So I thought: I-R, because of the rural atmosphere. Would it be possible to suppress the abandonment problem somehow? Park effects around the mills or so?

And something else: what do you think about the lots. Do they look nice? What improvements do you see?

[Lowkee33]

The lots look great.  Sawmill De Ooievaar may be a little cramped though.

Education determines the demand a R creates.  You can check this out in detail in the CAM section.  A un-educated R$ will only demand CS$, IR, and ID.  When they pass the first level of education I believe they start demanding IM as well.  IM creates demand for R$$, and there you go.   A big differenece between Rush Hour and the Originall was that in the original civic buildings didn't create jobs.  Now civic buildings create demand for R$$ or R$$$, and you can jump start an uneducated city into Manufacturing (because a % of the R$$ will demand IM).  A city college is a great way to start a city.

 

Would it be possible to suppress the abandonment problem somehow?

Something I believe is in progress.  It's in the developer exemplars...

[FrankU]

So, doesn't that mean that my uneducated Sims will be farmers and that an I-R mill will be used by them, but that a ID or even IM mill won't be used by them? And if I then want to let them use the mills I need to educate them, which will eventually lead to and end of farming?
So I guess I have no choice: the mills must be I-R and I will hope that they won't be abandoned.

Thanks for your comment about the lots. Yes the sawmill lot is a bit full. But I hesitate to use this lot anyway, because sawmills have a different shape. In fact a real sawmill looks like a large wooden barn with a mill on top of it. Take a look at this site: http://www.bolwerksmolen.nl/ It is the sawmill in my city. If I try to do that with this Stellingmolen it does not look good, probably because of the LOD of the model. I can show you what I mean, but that has to wait some days. I have not enough time a.t.m.

[Jack_wilds]

@ Jack_wilds
It is actually spelled Wunderbar... improvements that I could make? Are the lots too full or too empty? Too clean or too dirty? Is something missing?

Here in the fox valley, Little Chute is working on building its Dutch heritage for identity, commercialism and town pride.  So much so they have ordered a genuine Dutch windmill -type and model  , but politics have changed the location more than once, so it sits in a warehouse till 'they' figure out what they want to do... its funny because the town has told the elected officials what is wanted but... they have other ideas  but when its finally built it ought to be a sight.

As for the lotting... over all, the lots look good  -I like the variety of utility, but what I would watch out for is the tendency of 'floating' props -ungrounded appearance,

I'd make one of 'em be a pumping station to be used with SG's irrigation ditches...

I like the Molen van Boks and house lot as it looks like a family operation -flour or grist mill...

I'd make one of the ag-lots be more suitable for the flower fields... yes I know its the typical usual but the Dutch are known for their flower industry -even in Holland MI.

thoughts for milling over

Jack

[Lowkee33]

So, doesn't that mean that my uneducated Sims will be farmers and that an I-R mill will be used by them, but that a ID or even IM mill won't be used by them? And if I then want to let them use the mills I need to educate them, which will eventually lead to and end of farming?

Well no.  A percentage of R$ work at IM and IH, just uneducated ones never demand it.  If you plop it as IM you will see your demand for R$ and R$$ increase.  If you increase the IQ of your sims you will see the demand for IM increase.  (and yes, the ultimate demise of farming).  If you plop, say, a City College, you will see demand for R$$ increase.  At first, the R$$ will be uneducated, but they will still demand IM when they grow.  Check out the CAM board.   

[FrankU]

@ Jack-wilds,
Thanks for the comment. I did not realise there were props appearing as floating in air??? I'll take a look. Or do you mean that some props float a bit outside the lot? Like trees, shrubs and some fences? Some of the fences are rendered a bit off center, which I found out after I had made the prop family. So some fence props appear outside the boundary of the lot, but of course the lot will be part of a rural landscape and in real life fences are also placed a bit at random, sometimes. I decided not to bother about this. And for trees and shrubs go the same: some trees, especially, have the trunk not exactly in the center, so if I place the prop family in the corner of the lot, sometimes the trunk will begin outside the lot. But in game there will be grass, so no problem.

And I am working on a growable flower field farm with a small windmill. It is not ready yet, but I can show you in a few days. I have two more models of windmills that are appropriate for my project: the Nutley Windmill by lord_quillian2 and the Wipmolen by Meurdoos. So wait and see!

@ Lowkee,
The discussion is getting a bit too technical for me. I must add that I am a bit lazy and I have only limited time, unfortunately.
So: what I want is my mills to work in a functioning rural city tile. And as far as I know a functioning agricultural city tile may not have education at all. If I understand correct you say that also in such a city tile there will be demand for IM. And the advantage of IM is that it will not be abandoned when traffic grows. Is that correct?
Another way out might be making the mills commercial....

A related question: I have made my lots with Pim-X. I dragged the model of the mill onto the "Building Landmark with I-R jobs" item and with that building I made the lot. Is it possible to change the lot into IM without having to make it completely anew?

[Lowkee33]

The graphs that Tage made explain this stuff far better than I can.

And as far as I know a functioning agricultural city tile may not have education at all.

Correct.

I understand correct you say that also in such a city tile there will be demand for IM.

Only if education is above 50, or if R$$ live there.

And the advantage of IM is that it will not be abandoned when traffic grows. Is that correct?

Yes.  ID, will not abandon either.  I just ventured to call the mill IM because it is a manufacturing process.  IR does abandon, because traffic noise has a negative effect on IR desirability.

A related question: I have made my lots with Pim-X. I dragged the model of the mill onto the "Building Landmark with I-R jobs" item and with that building I made the lot. Is it possible to change the lot into IM without having to make it completely anew?

There is a right-click option to make a similar growable from the building.  I am not sure if you can switch types though.

All of the LotConfigProperties are copy/paste-able, so it is pretty quick to make a duplicate lot from a new desc.