T21 Question

[stickinc]

I've read through both tutorials I could find and was able to "almost" get median lights on RHW6C I used Xyloxadoria files as a test first and then Fanta's modified files of the same model. Both times I get the same result and can't get the median barrier in the light removed? I looked t the only working t21 mod I know of as a current example and I seem to have everything right. The network ID for RHW6C that I used is 0x57080080 and 0x57080081 for the light and edited the placement pattern in both per the tutorial. Can anyone tell me what I am missing?

[mgb204]

I'm assuming you used the LE to create the objects for the T21? Assuming you only have the props you see in the LE attached to the T21, then whatever you see in the LE is what you will see in game.

So either the barrier is part of the original model for the light, in which case there is nothing you can do to remove it. Or if it is a separate prop, you've accidentally left it in the T21 exemplar, hence it is showing up.

[stickinc]

Yes, created it lot editor. The concrete barrier isn't in the lot and in editor. I tested with Xyloxadoria original mod and just edited the network id's. and I still get the concrete barrier showing up. The only thing that should show is the concrete boat, light and the "concrete block" that Xyloxadoria has in the original mod.

The original mod doesn't show the concrete barrier in the photo's. The only thing I have tried that seems to get rid of the issue is removing the RealHighway_L0_RHW-6C_SingleBarrier dat file from the z__Nam folder and everything shows fine. So do I need to edit the placement in that dat, also?

[mgb204]

A T21 by itself can't edit the original S3D models used by the RHW, it simply adds new props to them.

In essence if you don't want the barriers, simply don't select them as part of the options for RHW when installing the NAM (or as you've done remove the override file).

[stickinc]

I don't think I explained myself properly. I use the single barrier, I select it when I installed the latest NAM and every previous version. The light should show on every 4th tile which it does, based on the placement pattern. the concrete median barrier boat barrier, not sure of the exact name in the RHW props, which the light is in between shouldn't show the normal median barrier. It should show the concrete boat, the concrete stand, and the light. If I remove the single override it fine on straight sections but curves and diagonals I get the double concrete barriers.

I've remade this T21 mod about a dozen times now and it' the same result each time. I know in the main RHW6C has 2 props on it, since it's a double barrier for the main file. I've tried leaving both or 1 or the other in the mod. I always end up with the concrete barrier in the concrete boat. I know I 'm missing something simple I just don't know what.

[eggman121]

Hello stickinc

I think I know what the problem is now.

The Barrier is part of the model, it is not T21ed on.

So, The only solution I can think of is to make a prop that covers the Barrier.

If there is a design you have in mind than you are welcome to send me a link of the type of boat barrier and something could be done in that space.

You have done well to get a hang of the T21s! Kudos to you

-eggman121

[stickinc]

OK, I "think" I know what you're both saying since there are basically two types of barriers single and double each is it's own model. The only thing I don't understand is why why when I follow the tutorial and load the lot the barrier is a prop . My thinking is when the original mod was made there was only single barrier on the RHW, idk only been using NAM since 32. It would explain why the original mod doesn't show the barrier between the boat.

Thank you for the offer but, I already took the existing RHW boat and editing the model in MAX, made a new examplar, gave it a new id and a fsh file. Just covered the hole with a plane snapped the verts, welded them and cleaned up the model of extra edges and welded all the verts. I'll make myself something nicer when I have extra time.

I'm sure i'll have more T21 questions, my next task, is to turn the glr ramps into actual 3d models, the maxis white really annoys me, so I can just toss the maps into mgb's repository and change all the textures when I get bored of my sidewalk mod. So i'm sure i'll questions on how to implement that

[mgb204]

In short, both variants in the NAM are based on 3D models (S3D's), there are no props involved. Hence why a T21 mod won't affect it in any way. Whatever you see in the LE will simply be added to such S3D models, although if the median barrier was originally used as a prop, I can't really explain why. Perhaps in the NAM originally it was a prop, but later converted to part of the model itself? But I don't think so.

As for the GLR RAMPs, I've been thinking about that too. Sadly I've had little time for getting into modelling recently, but ideally what I think is needed are a few modular parts.

An S3D "Plane" which covers nothing more than the ramp part. This can then pick up textures that already exist and be re-used for more than one network.

A normal 2D BAT for the walls of the ramp, with perhaps a second prop for railings/safety barriers. With super-tight LODs it should be possible to allow automata to pass through them visually, although that is technically complex.

Assuming there were some length variations of each piece, we'd only need a small number of models to re-purpose for almost every conceivable ramp we'd ever need. Even combining multiple "planes" together for wider networks. In practise that's not a huge amount of work, but it would revolutionise the flexibility of ramps and ensure textures auto-matched the installed network textures for every user.

If this resonates with you, I'm more than happy to have help realising it and would be willing to assist you to create them.

[stickinc]

Not really sure why the barrier kept showing up but after a dozen tried I just took the simple approach. 

I'll probably start on the GLR ramps sometime next month. RL and making a repository for the RHW parts that I normally use is time consuming, fixing UV maps on some of the automata I normally use and finally fixing the last few pieces of the SRM so I can use it.

My idea is somewhat similar to yours, except I want to do the whole thing as a 3D model. If I remember correctly 256x256 still falls into the scope of SD textures for simcity. Which makes placing all the needed textures on 1 uv map simple, but does cause the issue of the base texture not being that of the sidewalk, but I think I already have a solution for that in my head. A few different style of fence's for the model would give choices. I know some people would prefer props, so two models wouldn't be a problem.

I ended up with this idea not only because of the maxis white but also because I use the fenced puzzle pieces for downtown area's and the props on the ramps didn't match so had to go through and changes them all, and make sure they all lined up to the fence. Thinking was a texture map would have made everything simpler.

I'll definitely, let you know when I get started on this, as there are still a lot of aspects about simcity I'm not 100% sure about, since most of the older tutorials that covered these area are missing the images.

[stickinc]

New question, before I spend hours trying and find out it's not possible.

Streets have odd's and evens so you can have street lights every 2 tiles on opposite sides of each other. Is this possible with the RHW? I looked at old mods and none seem to have that feature.

Looking at the street t21's, I would assume it is possible just a matter of adding an extra examplar for the light on the opposite side and changing the pattern for both would seem to work. Can anyone tell me if I that's correct or if it's not possible.

[mgb204]

It's absolutely possible to add such T21 patterns for RHW, just as with any other network, but T21s were never part of the official mod. I suspect no one made a custom one because the sheer number of pieces put them off making it. Because adding it to straight sections is relatively easy, but extending that through intersections, curves and everything else is a huge undertaking.

As you surmise, it's simply a case of correctly setting up 2 or 4 T21s, to cover both Odd and Even placement. Where necessary, adding Mirrored (Flipped) and non-mirrored versions of each. With the patterns for each T21 for it to work.

I'd start by using the T21s from LRM for this, since Mandelsoft was a prolific and expert T21 moddder. You can use the Road T21s as a template or guide to the patterns needed. Since it's not much different for RHW as it would be for the Road network. Just bear in mind the road has more than simply lights, so you need to dig through them a bit to filter out all the additional T21s which have roadside props you likely won't need for RHW.